It's also possible that the elder wand, deciding Harry was it's true master, didn't target him with the killing curse, but instead aimed the curse at the hitchhiking piece of Voldemort's soul, destroying it but leaving Harry unscathed
I was thinking along similar lines. You can't use the Elder wand against its owner. Not only had Harry been recognized as its owner by the wand itself (having disarmed Draco Malfoy) but he was the descendant of one of the 3 brothers and therefore had a 2nd link to the three hallows.
@dustinmaxwell259 Supposedly. But putting the Master of Death aside, the invisibility cloak was exactly the thing that supposedly helps its owner to escape inevitable death. Which Harry did several times per year since starting his journey in the wizarding world. Also, coincidentally, James died shortly after he lent the cloak to Dumbledore, while before that he survived three confrontations with Voldemort. And since Harry was ready to die, but didn’t want to, it may had conduct a contradiction that allows Harry to choose whether to live or to die.
@@НикаК-ъ4ф They may have escaped with help from friends. But it only said they defied him 3 times. We don't know what that means. he could have offered to let them join him 3 times and they turned him down. Rowling was being pretty vague about it. James was going to die no matter what as soon as Voldemort found them. It's doubtful the Cloak would have helped. I say that because Dumbledore could see people hiding under it. Barty Crouch once spotted them hiding under it.
I'm going in a totally different direction. First, I don't think Harry ever died; when he comes out of his brief trance (or got knocked out briefly), Voldemort awakened at the same time, as if it was immediate. If Harry had died, both he and Voldemort would have taken longer than a second. Second, Every other horcrux that got destroyed was an inanimate object, while Harry was a living being, not a container; the killing curse worked differently on Harry the second time Voldemort tried to kill him. Third, Harry didn't die the first time because he was protected by his mother's sacrifice; a piece of Voldemort might have gone into Harry (obviously it did), but Voldemort didn't follow through on the process he had to follow when he created all the other horcruxes, and he had no intention of having it happen. Fourth and last, I think Harry was able to protect everyone else from Voldemort's curses because the elder wand had decided Harry was the worthy possessor, and there was nothing Voldemort could do about it.
yes the wand didnt want to kill harry because it was his by rights. but harry was only able to protect everyone because he willing sacrificed himself and set the same charm up as his mother did before him. and its obvious harry didnt die. it was the piece of voldemort that did. when harry collapsed it was due to the stress the killing curse put on his body while similtaniously as that was happening the wand didnt want to kill its true master so it chose the piece of voldemort instead. thats why voldemort felt it also since it was his soul that was just destroyed
Voldemort killed Harry’s parents there for splitting his soul and making Harry the horcruxes he never meant to make…… this is explained in the flash back were Voldemort asks his teacher about horcruxeses he says to split your soul so many times I can’t remember which movie!
I disagree with your argument about the time passage of their passing out. Dreams take place in an instant. If the entire King’s Cross scene was in Harry’s mind, it was only a Microsecond
He did not die because the curse was cast with the Elder Wand and that wand has to be won and will not act against its master, which was Harry from his defeat of Draco at Maloy Manner.
1. I think Harry got into a state of half-death, like a coma where body can either fight to live or give up and die (read 3 on why i think so) 2. Lilly's charm simply changed functionality. Instead of "shield" which wore out soon as he hit 17, it was now a "tether" 3. Elder wand, not wanting to kill its master, opted to direct the power of AvadaKedavra at the fraction, destroying it instead, which is why I think both collapsed to the ground. Fraction latched unto "... only LIVING being it could find..." meaning, perhaps, that Harry's soul was the vessel, not his body. I may be wrong about all that, ofc, but this theory seems far-fetched to me
I agree except that only thing that dropped when Harry turned 17 was the bit of magic that Dumbledore used to extend Lily's protection to include his aunt's home.
No, Harry was never properly prepared to be a vessel, therefore no need to destroy him, the spell to stabilise such was never cast so the piece literally fell away.
When did Rowling say anything about a stabilizing spell? All that was said was Harry was an accidental Horcrux. We were told the entire vessel had to be destroyed, which means it's another plot hole. But then here come the fans to fix the author's blunder...AGAIN.
@@Spawned-uy8ip 🤦🤦 there is nothing like plot hole the fact is you don't even know the story . Harry wasn't a true horcrux because to create a horcrux you should have a clear intention to make it and cast a spell to create it to hide a part of a soul in an object read the books in case of harry voldy just died he had no intention to make harry horcrux and didn't cast any spell , seriously jk never said about stabilizing spell read the books 🤦 6th book
@@shashankyadav7787 "read the books" We all have. We are told nothing about how to create a Horcrux except that it involves murder. Nothing about stabilizing spells. Furthermore. Rowling said Harry was Horcrux. She didn't say anything about him not being a "true horcrux". Nothing. So...read the books.
The stone should have also been destroyed when the ring was destroyed, meaning its magic shouldn’t have worked…. I guess you can say that voldy made this horcrux improperly. However, by the time he made Harry’s horcrux this art would have been perfected.
Voldemort used the Elder Wand on Harry with the "adava kedavra" spell. However, Harry was the rightful owner of the wand and the wand would not attack his owner. The wand attacked and killed Voldemort's soul/horcrux, but not Harry. That's why Voldemort fell to the ground. Harry just fainted. Since Harry was the owner of the resurrection stone, he could contact Albus. He also owned the invisibility cloak and these together made him the master of death. When Narcissa talked to Harry he came back to and she found him alive. Harry was the master of death and couldn't be killed. That was the magic that protected him. Later on, he broke the Elder Wand, at which point he stopped being the master of death.
Having the cloak alone makes him more powerful. In the story of the 3 brothers the youngest was able to hide from death until the end. I highly doubt he wore it 24/7
Funny how that Cloak could hide the brother from Death but couldn't hide people from detection spells. The only truly special thing about it, it until the last book or so, was that it endured longer than any normal Cloak. Then towards the end it suddenly became able to resist summoning spells.
I disagree. I think in this instance Harry was allowed to, because of his family. His ancestors is stated to have lived to an old age and removed the cloak to greet death as an old friend. I think in this instance, we don't actually see Dumbledore, but death disguised as Dumbledore. An "old friend" of Harry's. Death knows Harry won't choose to move on, and instead returns him to the world of the living but presents the option anyways.
@@captain_kidding Only the third brother, Ignotus, was said to use the cloak to "avoid death," and that was a story, not actual facts. Even if that was something the cloak could do, its power was to "not be found by death," not to "return from it." So, even if you consider the story of the Deathly Hallows true in all of its aspects, the cloak still couldn't bring back Harry from the dead; hence, he didn't die.
The issue with the killing curse not giving Harry another scar is actually pretty easy to quash. The killing curse doesn't usually leave a mark at all. However, a soul that has just been violently ripped apart reaching out in desperation to live may very well do so. And the evidence to back this up is that Harry's scar acts up anytime he is near Voldemort or one of the Horcruxes. So, I believe it's the physical manifestation of Voldemort's soul attaching to Harry, not from the spell backfiring. As for the Horcrux needing to be destroyed, between the fact that a regular Horcrux likely needing some form of incantation or ritual to embed the piece of soul into an object (which was definitely not done with Harry), it's also not well documented how a piece of soul will normally interact with an actual living thing. The only other case is Nagini, which I believe may be a transfigured item due to her near indestructability (why wouldn't you apply such a spell to yourself if you could). I do like the theory that Harry became the master of death, and thus was spared from it. But I do feel these arguments don't hold much water.
"How are you Harry?" "Scar's actin' up. Still. Mustn't grumble. Happens every time there's going to be a thunderstorm or there's a Dark Wizard of extraordinary power about. That and me lumbago."
The theory of him being the true master of death is alluring, but it doesn't really take everything into account. Yes, the containers of other Horcrux's were destroyed when the pieces of souls were destroyed, but they were all inanimate objects while Harry is a living person. I think it more likely that the Elder Wand recognized Harry as it's master and didn't want to kill him, so it chose the piece of Voldemort's soul instead, and the shock of that knocked both Harry and Voldemort out at the same time and would have been enough for Harry to die, obviously. It didn't kill Voldemort because Nagini was still the remaining Horcrux that needed to be destroyed, and it was only afterwards that he became completely mortal again. We also know that Neville cut Nagini's head off while her body simply slumped to the ground, lending further credence to the idea that a living thing made into a Horcrux operates under a different set of rules than inanimate objects do. While Harry becoming a Horcrux was, at best, an incomplete process, the fact remains that living Horcrux's clearly exist under a different set of rules than ones that are made from inanimate objects.
YES! I always wondered about the way Hermione describing horcruxes, where the container needs to be destroyed for the piece of soul to die. Yet Harry's body endured while the soul fragment died? No, it never made any sense. Harry as the Master of Death is believed by many in general, I guess it's more of a discussion what it potentially entails. Can you actually cheat death, like going back to the world of living, as a MoD? Good theory.
It wasn't the killing curse that created the mark on Harry's forehead. Harry was marked as a horrocrux that was accidentally created when the killing curse bounced off Harry (thanks to Lily's old magical protection) and hit Tom Riddle Jr. The last small piece of soul in desperation attached itself to Harry, causing the mark.
He’s not a horcrux though, it’s just easier for us to refer to him as one for simplicity but he has not been part of the process required to make one like all of Voldemort’s other horcruxes
"The Elder Wand didn't change alliance when Voldermort death cursed Harry, because he didn't fight back. Unlike Dumbledore who fought furiously back when Draco disarmed him. That counts!", pointed Dumbledore out calmly.
If memory serves, Draco "dueled" Dumbledore in that he disarmed him, and it was not Dumbledore's intention to be disarmed. In other words, Dumbledore lost his wand to Draco. Harry was not fighting Voldemort and was not disarmed by him. Therefore, Harry never lost his wand to Voldemort. The wand could have still chosen to switch allegiance, because it won't abide weakness, but sacrificing yourself to save everyone is not the act of a weak man. (Compare to Wormtail who would not sacrifice himself for his friends.)
I think the elder wand would have changed its allegiance to Voldemort AFTER if Harry had chosen to move on to the afterlife while in limbo. The curse cast on Harry was cast from the elder wand. The disarming spell from Draco was successfully cast on the current master, and possessor of the elder wand, Dumbledore, which is why it changed allegiance to Draco. (The Dumbledore said calmly joke made me lol)
This is very though-provoking! That said, after thinking more carefully about it, Harry himself was never really a proper horcrux. He didn't have the curses places upon him and such that are require for creating a horcrux. As such, is it possible that the the part of Tom Riddle's soul that was still inside of Harry could be gotten rid of without him passing and instead just having him come as close as one could get to death?
To be the master of Death you must accept it - Harry relinquished the cloak and the stone & did not want the power of the Elder wand = His mastery over that Death. Thus this was the sacrificial element needed to administer the same shield of Love protection for all those caught in the cross hairs of the Dark Lord and his elder wand. This story written by J.K as a twist on that of the story of Christ, his Crucification (which the destruction of Harrys body would have been thus concicrated infront of thise standing against the Dark Lord, most likely at Hogwarts, to show the totality of his Supremacy) and Rise from the grave. So in combination of 1. Harrys acceptance & becoming the master of Death, 2. Voldermort having made his physical body with Harrys very own Blood, 3. Harrys Blood & Sacrifice casting a Love protection charm over all from the Elder Wand, 4. Harry being the true owner of the Elder wand (having disarmed Draco), And finally 5. The story of Christ, his Crucification & Reserection - I surmise that Vildermorts Avada Kedavra curse did not rebound from Harry unto Voldermort at this point was in conclusion saying simply due to the Elder wands true alligiance, instead choosing to destroy the fragment of the Dark Lords soul!
I just assumed he was dead, but having a near death experience. Meeting a guide (which may be a loved one) and getting answers to your questions is a common experience--as is being offered the choice to stay or go. I was just listening to an account the other day by a woman who sat and talked with her grandfather in a beautiful garden, beyond which were beautiful mountains. Her grandfather told her if she wanted to stay, she just had to cross the mountains--similar to Harry taking the train to the "beyond."
I think the image Harry has of Dumbledore is the one he sees at the King's Cross, and because of that, the Dumbledore image only knows what Harry subcouncious knows/suspects.
One thing I've noticed in all these theories about why Harry survived, I've never seen any one touch on one thing in particular. During the initial battle of Hogwarts, when Voldemort and his followers trying to break through the barrier, the elder wand was damaged. When Voldemort began attacking directly it shows the wand cracked.
@@classiccuneyt yeah but the movie explained that the stone doesnt work 2 times the first being in the 3 brothers tale and the other was when Harry used it to see his dead familly and they werent really there so...
I always thought that the way the killing curse worked is that it destroyed your soul rather than your body. This is why when it hit Harry, it destroyed the piece of Voldemort's soul that was within him despite the container, his body, still being intact. Both souls were hit by the spell as that is how it works, but Voldemort's served as a shield of sorts, leaving Harry's untouched and thus having the option to return to his body if he wanted to. Also I think the killing curse by default leaves no scar or mark, so even with Harry surviving it, he should have been scarless. But Harry's situation is unique in that the person casting the spell had horcruxes and tethered to life, and I think the scar is a manisfestation of Voldemort's soul being spontaneously ripped apart and wanting to latch onto something in desperation-- the only other thing available in the room was, of course, Harry. So the scar on his head IS the piece of Voldemort inside of him, this explains why whenever he was near Voldemort, the scar acted up.
I think Dumbledore knew what harry was doing most of the . For instance in the sorceress stone on the train to Hogwarts Harry gets Dumbledores card in his chocolate frog he looks at harry then disappears .makes me wonder if he could hear Harry's conversations as well. All the paintings can hear and see?
The movie made it seem like the stone only had a one-time used.(which was B.S.) I also think that the only thing that Voldermort killed was that piece of Voldermort that was in Harry as well. But please keep in mind that Harry only lost the stone after Voldermort bounced him around a few times.
Harry didn't have the resurrection stone when he confronted Voldemort. He's tossed it away in the forest right after he saw his parents and the others.
The scar can't have been formed by the killing curse. It's stated many times that the killing curse leaves no mark. My theory is that the scar was formed by Voldemort's soul.
Funny thing is if you think about it Snape was the cause of Voldermort's downfall. Had the prophecy never been disclosed Harry would have never become the chosen one 😂
@@navi2710 not really, Voldy knew he only had half the prophecy but chose to attack anyway, he was his OWN downfall. Once he decided to attack, the reason Harry survived is because Snape asked him to spare Lily and he gave her the chance to step aside, but that wasn't exactly Snape's intention...
@DraconimLt Voldy did not know he had half of the prophecy when he went to kill Harry. It was only after his return did he learned about it and even then he only knew it existed.
@@navi2710 very wrong. Voldy knew there was a prophecy, it's WHY he attacked the Potters that night! Go read the books again. Or by ''only after his return did he learned about it'' did you mean he only learned there was a 2nd part then but not what it was? Cos then you're closer... Snape heard half the prophecy but got caught eavesdropping on Dumbledore's meeting with Trelawny and thrown out. He knew he had only part of the prophecy, as he was caught partway through. He told Voldy what he had heard AND that it was only part of it. Voldy then chose to attack the Potters based on the info he had. It was the prophecy that MADE him want to attack them, if he hadn't heard the first half, he never would have so specifically targeted a baby as a threat. (When Snape goes to Dumbledore, he specifically tells him all this, and says 'he thinks it means Lily' to which Dumbledore says 'it did not speak of a woman but a child' and Snape corrects it to 'her son'.) It failed and Voldy became a wraith. When he 'returned' he became very focussed on learning the REST of it, which is why he wanted to get it stolen from the Department of Mystery's.
Dumbledore is a master manipulator, controller, puppetmaster. He knew how to play people, he knew how to move pieces around like chess. He did stuff in a way that suited him without revealing too much. He was in control, he lied about everything for a long time and since he used and abused people, he didn't have to say much, even with Harry. He used him for his own gain. He could have taken Voldemort down years ago, but instead, played the ''long game'', used people, caused unnecessary deaths and whatever. He told half truths, as he knew how to get into Harry's head, since he can read minds. He knew how to wrangle things to make it sound convincing. He lied his way to the end, and even after. Was it to protect Harry? Not really, he didn't care about the boy like that. He used him. It wasn't about not wanting Voldemort to find out either, it was something else. Harry never cared about the Deathly Hallows that much, since he dumped the stone and broke the wand, Oh no...Dumbledore just lied, because he can and because he did. You see. Harry didn't have to go to the forest. According to the lore, Lilly's blood was making Voldemort weaker because it was a foreign agent and his own body was destroying itself to get rid of the blood. Harry didn't have to sacrifice himself. Once the Horcruxes were gone, Voldemort was a mortal man, dead man walking. His insides were burnt out from the dark power that flooded him. He was just a vessel. Once they were gone, he would have K.O'd anyway. Harry's sacrifice was more on a biblical side of things, because ''he said to jump'' type of thing. The Deathly Hallows blocked the spell and protected Harry and apparently somehow Harry had his own Horcrux. According to the lore and a few websites, it happened during the Basilisk Fight with Fawkes This sort of story is changing a lot of things here. .
He did not broke the wand in the books, instead he put it back into Dumbledore's grave, after fixing his own broken wand with it. Just to be precise ;)
What utter crap. Lily’s blood was not making Voldemort weaker. That’s made up nonsense since there is absolutely nothing in the books that even suggested that. Dumbledore couldn’t have taken Voldemort down earlier since Voldemort had made at least two Horcruxes before he graduated from Hogwarts. If Dumbledore had fought & destroyed Voldemort during the first Wizarding War then Voldemort would have returned. Plus Dumbledore willing sacrificed his own life to help bring down Voldemort - how was that a gain for Dumbledore? And if Dumbledore was all about power & control & manipulation then he would have become Minister of Magic when the post was offered to him. He was actively working to permanently bring down the greatest dark wizard in history so yes, he had to be manipulative & secretive. Did the Allies go around announcing their plans during WWII? Of course not, because they had to be manipulative & keep secrets in order to succeed in bringing down the knot-seas & ending the war. That’s not going to happen if the enemy knows what you’re planning. And sacrifices always have to be made when you’re fighting a war. It’s horrible for those that don’t make it & the ones who love them but unfortunately that’s just how it is. Stop being obtuse.
I think the reason for the forest events not leaving a mark on Harry and not destroying Voldemort's body is precisely because of the combination of the sacrifice of Lilly and the true owner of the Elder Wand. The love magic protected Harry again, but also protected Voldemort (after all he has the same blood at that point). But then again, the spell was much less powerful because the wand didn't want to hurt its owner. So there you go, Harry and Voldemort didn't die because of Lily's sacrifice, and the wand didn't leave a mark on its true master. By the way, that's enough of a reason to doubt Harry died. If he had, the wand would have switched its allegiance immediately, after all death of the previous owner is one very clear way for that to happen, but it kept being Harry's.
The deathly hallows doesn't make you an actual master of death, as in you don't get to choose to live or die just because you own all three. It just means you're much harder to kill, (wand and cloak) and you have the ability to talk to the dead with the ring. Also you're confusing Lily's sacrifice. In the forest Harry's tether wasn't from him but from Voldemort himself. In effect when Voldy took Harry's blood and Lily's protection for Harry into himself he created a "Lovecrux" for Harry.
It's crazy that I never thought about Harry having control of all the Deathly Hallows items by the end of DH, I remembered what Lunas father said in the film, "Together the Deathly Hallows makes one master of death" so maybe Harry remembers this later on when he goes to the forest to Voldemort, so interesting thinking about these things in a deeper way.
All true, except Dumbledore still longed to be the Master of Death, even at old age. It's because he put the ring with the Ressurection stone on his finger that he got cursed (as the ring happened to also be a Horcrux , cursed by Voldemore). Dumbledore still couldn't resist Power and was still longing to become the Master of Death and it cost him his life.
Harry was in, what is called, purgatory, the in-between, where souls are judged. Both Harry's soul and Tom's soul shard went there, but Harry was still tied to earth over Tom, his soul was still whole, and it was very similar to Harry having a horcrux, but not the same. Harry's blood, and a living body in Tom, still existed on earth. Harry's own body was still there, too, and it was living as well. Really, Harry was possessed by Tom's soul shard, he wasn't a horcrux. That was the misinformation Dumbledore told, where he claimed that Harry was an accidental horcrux. Harry was really a host for a parasite. Was it his mother's protection? I think not, it was a lucky coincidence that Tom used his blood, resulting in two living bodies remaining on earth anchoring Harry, as the two souls traveled to purgatory; one only temporarily.
When I first read the chapter of Harry and Dumbledore in the train station. I didn't see it as Harry talking Dumbledore, but death itself in the form of Dumbledore. As the 3rd brother welcomed Death like an old friend.
I’ve always assumed the second explanation you attribute to Dumbledore was the best one: the killing curse hit the piece of Voldemort’s soul that was inside him. His own soul remained intact, though he was in a state of temporary deep shock. Makes sense to me. Interesting point about the Elder Wand’s allegiance remaining with Harry because he did not resist was interesting, though.
When V tried to kill infant Harry, he didn't have unicorn blood in him like he did at the end of the series. Therefore the situation with V was different therefore the same thing couldn't have happened as the first time around. When Harry was an infant V tried to kill him in a smaller room, which could be why H ended up with the scar on his forehead. H was also an infant with more tender skin. When V tried killing Harry at the end H was older, less tender, and it was done outside - much further away than a small room. Which probably explains why no mark. Since we never hear where the horcrux was located in H's body, or how it was contained, we can only surmise things.The part of H the horcrux was in was destroyed enough to release it from H's body. It must have been enough otherwise the horcrux wouldn't have been destroyed. One can assume a horcrux in a living being would not be contained the same way it would be in a non-living item. H's mother had to die to put her protection onto H. H also died otherwise he wouldn't have been able to put the same protection on his friends. The book where it says if H were to take a train he'd probably go 'on' which implies what awaits us in death. But he was tied to life because V used H's blood to get his body back. So, yeah, H died.
In reference to the Horcrux's per the 6th book (I believe) is that they make comment to the fact that anything can be imbued with a piece of the soul whether it be inanimate objects or living creatures. They mention that the downside of using a living vessel as a container is that it could still die of natural causes and take the soul fragment with it. That said, Voldemort cursing Harry would not have necessarily killed him in turn based on the wands' allegiance and that it was a headshot for a final blow in the woods.
It's all a big paradox to me. If Lilly's blood is in Voldemort too, is that why it went different? Did that protect him from a rebounding killing curse yet keeping the protection alive allowing Harry to return? Why didn't he get a second scar???
I do not believe Lily's blood did much here. The main thing it did earlier, was allow V to regain a body (blood of the enemy was required int he spell) as well as to touch Harry without immense pain/burning from the protection spell. I personally believe that once V used Harry's blood in the rite to gain a new body, the protection spell was broken. Harry wasn't protected from everything, only V, and now that V's aura (I assume) would not show some slight (very, very, very slight) trace of Lily, the protection spell should recognize V as part of Harry's family. But that's just my own supposition. I agree with others who have said that the Elder Wand recognized harry as its rightful owner, and therefore killed the only other thing it could when it hit harry -- the bit of V's soul that had attached to him. This also explains why both of them fell down. So, the 'rebound' never happened for two reasons: 1. the protection was broken (per my supposition above) and 2. it DID kill something, V's bit of soul that attached to Harry with the original rebounded spell when Harry was a baby. As mentioned in the video (I think, perhaps it was just comments), the scar likely did not come from the curse itself, as it is well documented and stated elsewhere in the books that the killing curse leaves no mark at all. However, a broken piece of soul very well may lash out as it attaches to someone or something as a last resort of not dying itself. (As in, when V cast the killing curse on Lily and the rebound broke his soul again. V didn't even notice that it had happened since he was so broken at that point anyway and probably had no idea a bit of soul could auto-attach to something/someone else.)
My thought was that yes, he felt the effects of the killing curse and was technically clinically dead, however, the piece of the sould of voldemort took the full blast, like Nearly headless Nick took the full blast of the basilisk gaze and mrs norris was petrified. so yes he did die, but it was maybe a shock to the system due to the effect of the curse a temporary shock to harry's body.
I think Harry wasn’t dead because it was Voldemort that destroyed the holcrux and since he was the creator of it then he would be able to destroy it without any harm to the vessel. I think the other horrid vessels had to be destroyed for the horrid to be destroyed was because they were being destroyed at the hand of someone other than the creator of the horcrux.
I’ve got a question. Hopefully followers of this channel can answer. When Harry Potter met Professor Quirrell for the first time at the Leaky Cauldron they shook hands. Why didn’t Quirrells hands burn like they did when they were fighting for the Philosopher’s Stone?
The professor wasn't trying to kill him in the Leaky Cauldron like he was later on. The magic Lilly placed on him was a protection spell. It worked when he needed protection later on, but it wasn't a can't touch me spell.
I think that Professor Quirrell didn’t have Voldemort in him at the time he first met Harry at the Leaky Cauldron. A month passed between that meeting and when Harry goes to Hogwarts. Quirrell knew that Harry was coming to the school, so he sought out Voldemort and became host to him
Neither Harry or Voldemort actually died in the Forest because they were tethered to each other as "equals". Voldemort still had Horcrux Nagini after Horcrux Harry had been taken out and Voldemort was carrying Harry's mother's blood protection and the Elder Wand both which were loyal to him. The idea of what happened to me is the Avada Kedavra came from a wand loyal to it's master and struck the only thing it could that wasn't a part of Harry..the Horcrux. Voldemort and Harry essentially briefly clinically "died " from the Horcrux being destroyed and their bond being broken but because Voldemort still had Nagini he was still tethered to life and Harry was tethered to him through Lily's blood protection . This was the reason for the gleam in Dumbledore's eyes when he found out Voldemort took Harry's blood. Harry would still have the option to use that tether as it was meant for him to return to life or move on . Harry chose to return leaving the awful Horcrux behind in death thus he and Voldemort were revived.
I kind of always thought that Harry did die along with the horcrux in him & him having an anchor to the mortal world more sort of just gave him the ‘option’ to either ‘anchor back’ to the land of the living or die with the horcrux.
perhaps when a horcrux is placed on a living being it requires consent to apply the protection of its container. nagini gave the consent, forcing its death to destroy the horcrux, harry didn't give the horcrux consent so when he was killed the horcrux died instead as it didn't have a consenting container
the master of death theory is a good one, though there is a hole in your story, didn´t one of the elder wand owners get killed in his sleep and the ownership transfered to his murderer?
I also believe that the elder wand had something to do with it remember the words sad at the end of the final battle, between Harry and Voldemort. The elder wand flew towards Harry the master it would not kill. I believe the wand killed the part of Voldemort, instead of killing Harry. Because it would not kill him.
If Harry was protected by Lily's love--which seems to be the most popular theory, then Harry couldn't die for as long as his blood ran in Voldemort's veins. BUT! He was given the choice to die while in limbo by moving on. If he was alive because Voldemort still lives, the choice shouldn't have been there because...he didn't have a choice--he would have had to go back because....Voldemort is still alive with protected blood running through his veins. The choice suggests control and will (some might say master of one's fate). What makes most sense is that Harry was the Master of Death at that moment. The blood theory doesn't make sense. In fact, it may even be arguable that Harry would simply be immortal because Lily's love protects him, unless there is a qualification of some sort, like, the protection only works against one person (Voldemort in Harry's case).
Harry casting sacrificial magic on everyone never made sense to me. It was always my understanding that the person who sacrifices themself has to have the choice to live. It was stressed that Voldemort wasn't going to kill Lily, and that was part of what made the magic work. Otherwise the magic would have been cast constantly during the first war with Voldemort, or even at other times during the series. Yes, Voldemort gave Harry a choice, but neither option included living. It was either come here and die, or try to run away and hide and I will destroy everything and everyone until I find you and kill you.
So, the elder wand decided to actually k¡ll Harry in the forest but chose not to in the great hall? Someone make it make sense for me. I've always found the closing of the story to be so confusing and each and every explanation I hear still hasn't helped me piece it together 100%. There's always something on the sidelines that make me question it all. Harry's "death" is questioned a lot for a reason.
I think Harry did die, but it was a sort of near death experience. The entire scene is reminiscent of what people who've had one describe. Harry's body and soul was parted by the killing curse, but Harry, in this junctionpoint inbetween life and afterlife, chose to return to his body. Harry being the Master of Death was probably what made this choice possible to begin with.
No - there's a simpler explanation - when he arrived at the "train station" neither Harry nor the piece of Voldemort's sole had died (both moved).. both in theory had the option to "go on" or catch a train and The piece of Voldemort simply remained in that purgatory - afraid to move to either (because Voldemort always feared death)
idk, quite clearly said that Dumbledore wanted Snape to unalive him to stop his suffering and save Draco. He never anticipated Draco unarming him and leading Harry to unarm draco causing the Elder Wand to change its allegiance to him. Master of Death took off The Cloak and greeted death as old friend. He clearly Loved Ginny and gave away a future with her to protect all of them. As you can see in the Pt 2 Movie the ones pulled from rings aren't really there and more along called out to him to unalive himself. so they too could have not been real. Tom did take his blood teithering Harry to Life and Tom wanted to destroy harry in cold blood so it took out the next thing. piece of his soul. The Elder Wand had a history of switching sides even midflight through its history.
I don't think the Deathly Hollows tethered Harry to life, I think his sacrifice did. At least in Christianity, it's said there's no greater love than to lay down one's life for their neighbor. I think the same could potentially be said in the Harry Potter universe. Maybe when one sacrifices themself for whoever, they get the choice of moving on or they can continue to live. They get the choice to continue to live because their life was cut unnaturally short. If they choose to move on, a sacrificial spell is then cast over whoever the person protected. Maybe part of the person's soul is what protects the saved person. Someone might say, "Well, why didn't Lilly come back then?" Simple, she knows the prophecy. Harry needs to live in order to defeat Voldemort. Lilly choosing to come back removes her protection, which then leads to Harry's death and Voldemort never dies.
I enjoyed this video. It's well thought out, but I'm not sure Dumbledore lied in the slightest. Dumbledore does NOT know everything! Voldemort & Harry had ventured into realms of magic that no one ever had. There was simply know possible way of knowing. Dumbledore admitted as much when discussing how Harry's wand had responded to Voldemort on his escape from Privet Drive. Further, the Hallows had never been united before, so how could Dumbledore be sure of their effects? The point regarding the destruction of the vessel (Harry as a Horcrux) is interesting, but we have to remember that there are many elaborate spells required to create a Horcrux. I believe that Voldemort had intended for Harry's death to be the final component to create his 6th Horcrux, but we don't know what vessel Voldemort had intended to turn into the Horcrux. The point is that whatever spell/s cast to bind the piece of Voldemort's soul to the object were never cast in the first place. The torn piece of soul simply latched onto Harry's as the only suitable "container" available at that time. So, Harry wasn't a *true* Horcrux. He was a simply a container for that piece of Voldemort's soul.
It's simple. Voldemort used Harry's Blood to rebuild his body, ostensively creating a Horcrux for Harry, (Tethering him to Life). Voldemort didn't know that he created a Horcrux trying to kill Harry giving Harry abilities that he never was born with nor trained to have. When he made his final Horcrux within Nagini it was his 9th instead of the 7th that was intended, Harry being the first Nagini became the 8th and when he recreated his body intentionally using Harry blood to absorb the Magical protection his mother gave Harry is absorbed (unbeknownst to him) A HORCRUX! Splitting a Horcrux (He didn't know he had created) into 2 One part that remained in Harry and the second part back into himself. Making Voldermort's soul into 9 pieces, Harry willingly sacrificed himself ignoring the fear of death became the Master of it. The rules were clear: The Elder Wand was won, in combat The resurrection stone wasn't used in order to keep the dead tethered to life, And the cloak wasn't used to live because of fear. So Death relinquished its Claim on his soul. When Voldemort "Killed" Harry the only life that was extinguished was the 1/2 Horcrux left in Harry's Body. Voldemort having only 1/2 of tether left died then, but Harry was still alive and the Horcrux of Harry was still in Voldemort. So all it took was him using the wand that was still loyal to Harry not to go against its master and that's why Harry was able to survive, Voldemort was defeated. Why Dumbledore never lied. Dumbledore was a Wizard of Knowledge that he never revealed to anyone because he didn't want to answer "Slughorn type" questions. About Dark Magic that he explored because he could have been the Darkest Wizard that has ever lived.
I disagree that Dumbledore is one of the most infamous, deceitful, and corrupt wizards of all time. Deceitful, manipulative ... sure. To play the game of life and death with strong wizards that literally want to kill you and others that want to see you fail or the power for themselves, you have to be willing to play outside the norm. What do you think Poker is? An honest man's game? Pfft. Dumbledore literally had to play Poker constantly to put the people in the places he needed them to put an end to Voldemort. If he was so corrupt, then why would he accept death and why would he do something as stupid as sacrificing himself to try to ensure the master wand ownership would die with him. I think that Dumbledore was EXACTLY what he inferred ... Harry's construct that was influenced by the teachings of Dumbledore.
Harry did not die because death himself favoured him. Harry is said to be the chosen one…. Chosen by who? Death of course. Voldemort insulted death, having chosen to cheat it multiple times. As such death picks him as a familiar. Harry keeps surviving impossible wounds. The bassalisk venom and faux (loyalty was a lie). Demanters would have killed Harry Potter in 3, as he would not have gone into the future (it is death who casts patronus the first time). It it death who leads Harry to the sword, and most of the cases where Harry had help. Death also gives Harry the resurrection stone
Actually It’s Because The Horcrux Inside Harry Actually Took Harry’s Place Last Second, So The Horcrux Inside Of Harry Actually Unintentionally Saved Harry’s Life. That’s How It Works With Human Horcruxes, The Fragment Of The Creator’s Soul Is Destroyed Instead Of The Person, My Best Friend And I Actually Talked About How Harry Could’ve Survived And We Discovered How
Or... the Elder Wand wouldn't hurt it's master... so instead it killed Volde's soul fragment and the resulting trauma caused Harry to go unconscious and have hallucinations of Dumbledore in his head.
I think a Horcrux can't be created from a death caused by a battle with Voldemort. Harry and his mother did not defend with a wand or magic. It seems to be a cold-blooded murder is needed. Also, the soul can not be split more than 7 times, as 7 is important in much of the Harry Potter story. Harry becoming the unintended Horcrux caused the 7th split of Voldemort's soul, leaving what was left as only an 8th piece of Voldemort without a body. More to this but see what you think about this first.
I don't think the reason you mentioned was to keep temptation away from Harry, because he heard the story of the Deathly Hallows. He must've put the pieces together himself or else Hermiony would've elaborated on it. In the end he was sure he would survive because there were 3 combined spells from different magic. Spell 1 came from the resurrection stone he held and 'used' to see the ghosts of his friends/family was actually able to bring himself back, instead of any of those ghosts. Spell number 2 came from his mother's love. The third spell came from the items he had, maybe these 3 spells combined would be needed to keep the body intact (2), the soul tethered to his body (1) and to bring his soul back (3). But it's not stated by JK Rowling anywhere.
You’re wrong: The Lilly’s blood tethering him to life fits I agree. The reason why the curse didn’t rebound onto Voldemort this time is because Harry had to accept death which lifts the enchantment. His body didn’t have to be destroyed because it was Voldemort who killed him you have to think Magic works in different ways for example Harry’s wand protecting him on its own accord, same with the horcrux. If Voldemort kills it then magic does it magic thing and wallah Voldemort destroys his own soul off his own negligence. I like the last take I think Dumbledore was trying to protect him from himself but why would Harry turn to the dark side after conquering death? He defeated the darkest wizard he’s already have the 3 hollows he has family friends everything he could ever dream of he have no reason to get caught up in the Glory of being the Master of Death that’s not his persona all his mentors over the course of time instilled humbleness in him taught they were kinda grooming him to be humble the whole time especially after Voldemort returned you notice how everyone was always guiding him on the righteous path teaching him righteous magic i think he would have been humble about being the Master of Death he probably would have only told Ron and Hermione but it wouldn’t be nothing new or shocking because of all they’ve went through
I don't necessarily disagree with your theory, but there are explanations on some of the supposed weaknesses in Dumbledore's theory. First, Voldemort made Harry a horkrux by accident; he did not use the process he used to create the other horkruxes. Therefore, it is possible the bond between Voldemort's soul and Harry was strong enough to keep Voldemort alive but not strong enough so that Harry had to die for the piece of soul to be destroyed. Second, we are told the place the killing curse hit Harry "felt like the bruise of an iron-clad punch." So, perhaps the physical damage was on his chest over the heart: a place not as often exposed as his face. Third, Harry himself says he meant to die, and that's what protected everyone else. As a final point, remember that, when Harry told Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire that Voldemort had taken his blood, Dumbledore seemed to look triumphant. This suggests that the sacrifice still protected Harry when he meant to die. This is strengthened by the fact that Dumbledore told Snape that Voldemort must kill Harry for the piece of soul to be destroyed. Voldemort did not need to destroy the other horkruxes for him to become vulnerable. Why would it matter who killed Harry unless the sacrifice protecting Harry from Voldemort still held?
have recently stumbled upon a lot of fanfics using a new trope = Lily is descended from a gaunt squib and thus voldy couldn't kill the last heir of slytherin due to some ritual salazar did to his bloodline.......................another trope is that it was the last 2 Peverell descendants = when Peverell blood is on the line ...Death itself changes the rules. I prefer this to dumbles "the power of love" nonsense
I don't think he ever met dumbledore. All the information he gets in that chapter is already available to him. He just pieces it together himself and imagines dumbledore is telling him.
It has never been clarified that Harry was a real horcrux. Yes, a piece of Voldemort’s soul was attached to his own souls but hence the rebound of the killing curse, V never made the proper ritual. IMO it was a unique case and the rules of horcrixesnnever applied to Harry. V ever had the same command over Harry as he had over Nagini even though they both supposedly were living horcruxes. When V AK-ed Harry in the forest, there was indeed a sort of backlash because V was thrown back in a heap but the killing curse didn’t rebound on V himself but on the soul peace (not horcrux) in Harry.
perhaps the reason dumbledore did not tell the truth, was because he was not there. a theory, harry was killed and had the option to go on or return, but he had to work it out for himself which he would prefer. basically his soul was fighting to survive. he imagined Dumbledore there having a conversation with him as he tried to piece together the events and reason to live or go on. people will talk to themselves, same idea. a part of him wanted to go on. the other part wanted to return to live. they had a chat, and the one who wanted to live convince the other one to wake up and continue on.
I assumed that the avada kedavra killes a soul. since harry had two souls inside, the avada kedavra killed the weakest of both. in this case, voldemort's. this would mean that harry didn't die but his soul had to recover from the shock of being "killed". harry, from my perspective, just had a near death experience and his mind wanted answers he didn't had. his mind took the shape of dumbledore to "answer" those questions. in fact, it's harry reasoning and knowledge the one that answers. if you look carefully, the answers dumbledore gives are things that harry already know or suspects. this dumbledore doesn't gives us any real information despite answering harry's questions. I'm not as close minded as Hermione, nor as demented as xenophilius, but it was never proven that the hallows were truly made by death. that's just a tale about the three brothers. it's a common belief, true or not, that the hallows were made by the brothers. even if it were true that the hollow were made by death, there's no way that they could grant you immortality or the power to resurrect yourself. death would never give such a power to mere mortals. in addition to that, it wasn't death who choose what gifts give to the brothers, they were the ones to choose what they wanted. why would death make it so owning those three gifts give you power over death itself beyond the regular use of the objects (wand: the power to cause death, stone: the power to revert death, cloak: the power to prevent death) remember that it's "canon" that the gifts were a trick to doom the brothers. antioch was murdered to steal his wand and cadmus commited suicide to truly reunite with his loved. Ignotus was the only one that truly outsmarted death (if we are to believe the tale) because he didn't want to mock death, he only wanted his safety. that's why Ignotus lasted until he decided to go on a new adventure and welcomed death as an old friend. the tale doesn't makes that much sense in that point other than teaching that arrogance leads to doom and prudence leads to a long life. death created the hollows to punish the brothers so, why would death make it so reuniting the items would make you it's master? why did death trick the two first brothers but let ignotus pull one on it? because the tale is false. the hollows were made by the brothers and have no real power over death other than being able to kill with the wand and conjure a fake version of a loved one.
Two content/video ideas for free. 1. What happens to the Muggle PM's when they either retire or lose an election? Do they get their memory wiped? 2. How does religion work? They obviously celebrate Xmas. What about catholic church and witch trials? etc.
So it is my interpretation that Harry died and it’s simple why. It’s very clear kings cross and taking with dumbledore mimics a near death experience as explained by those who have had them People either NDE explain they experience very similar things They are also give a choice at times like Harry to go back
It's also possible that the elder wand, deciding Harry was it's true master, didn't target him with the killing curse, but instead aimed the curse at the hitchhiking piece of Voldemort's soul, destroying it but leaving Harry unscathed
I was thinking along similar lines. You can't use the Elder wand against its owner. Not only had Harry been recognized as its owner by the wand itself (having disarmed Draco Malfoy) but he was the descendant of one of the 3 brothers and therefore had a 2nd link to the three hallows.
This. I really don't buy that Master of Death thing. The Peverells made the Hallows.
But still, Harry should be destroyed to destroy the horcrux. So it’s not like it would really work that way.
@dustinmaxwell259 Supposedly. But putting the Master of Death aside, the invisibility cloak was exactly the thing that supposedly helps its owner to escape inevitable death. Which Harry did several times per year since starting his journey in the wizarding world. Also, coincidentally, James died shortly after he lent the cloak to Dumbledore, while before that he survived three confrontations with Voldemort. And since Harry was ready to die, but didn’t want to, it may had conduct a contradiction that allows Harry to choose whether to live or to die.
@@НикаК-ъ4ф They may have escaped with help from friends. But it only said they defied him 3 times. We don't know what that means. he could have offered to let them join him 3 times and they turned him down. Rowling was being pretty vague about it. James was going to die no matter what as soon as Voldemort found them. It's doubtful the Cloak would have helped. I say that because Dumbledore could see people hiding under it. Barty Crouch once spotted them hiding under it.
I'm going in a totally different direction. First, I don't think Harry ever died; when he comes out of his brief trance (or got knocked out briefly), Voldemort awakened at the same time, as if it was immediate. If Harry had died, both he and Voldemort would have taken longer than a second. Second, Every other horcrux that got destroyed was an inanimate object, while Harry was a living being, not a container; the killing curse worked differently on Harry the second time Voldemort tried to kill him. Third, Harry didn't die the first time because he was protected by his mother's sacrifice; a piece of Voldemort might have gone into Harry (obviously it did), but Voldemort didn't follow through on the process he had to follow when he created all the other horcruxes, and he had no intention of having it happen. Fourth and last, I think Harry was able to protect everyone else from Voldemort's curses because the elder wand had decided Harry was the worthy possessor, and there was nothing Voldemort could do about it.
yes the wand didnt want to kill harry because it was his by rights. but harry was only able to protect everyone because he willing sacrificed himself and set the same charm up as his mother did before him. and its obvious harry didnt die. it was the piece of voldemort that did. when harry collapsed it was due to the stress the killing curse put on his body while similtaniously as that was happening the wand didnt want to kill its true master so it chose the piece of voldemort instead. thats why voldemort felt it also since it was his soul that was just destroyed
Not all the horcruxes were inanimate. Nagini was very much a living creature.
@@PoizenneGood point, but the killing curse wasn't used on Nagini, the sword was, and I was happy that Neville got to do it.
Voldemort killed Harry’s parents there for splitting his soul and making Harry the horcruxes he never meant to make…… this is explained in the flash back were Voldemort asks his teacher about horcruxeses he says to split your soul so many times I can’t remember which movie!
I disagree with your argument about the time passage of their passing out.
Dreams take place in an instant. If the entire King’s Cross scene was in Harry’s mind, it was only a Microsecond
He did not die because the curse was cast with the Elder Wand and that wand has to be won and will not act against its master, which was Harry from his defeat of Draco at Maloy Manner.
1. I think Harry got into a state of half-death, like a coma where body can either fight to live or give up and die (read 3 on why i think so)
2. Lilly's charm simply changed functionality. Instead of "shield" which wore out soon as he hit 17, it was now a "tether"
3. Elder wand, not wanting to kill its master, opted to direct the power of AvadaKedavra at the fraction, destroying it instead, which is why I think both collapsed to the ground. Fraction latched unto "... only LIVING being it could find..." meaning, perhaps, that Harry's soul was the vessel, not his body.
I may be wrong about all that, ofc, but this theory seems far-fetched to me
I agree except that only thing that dropped when Harry turned 17 was the bit of magic that Dumbledore used to extend Lily's protection to include his aunt's home.
No, Harry was never properly prepared to be a vessel, therefore no need to destroy him, the spell to stabilise such was never cast so the piece literally fell away.
When did Rowling say anything about a stabilizing spell? All that was said was Harry was an accidental Horcrux. We were told the entire vessel had to be destroyed, which means it's another plot hole. But then here come the fans to fix the author's blunder...AGAIN.
@@Spawned-uy8ip 🤦🤦 there is nothing like plot hole the fact is you don't even know the story . Harry wasn't a true horcrux because to create a horcrux you should have a clear intention to make it and cast a spell to create it to hide a part of a soul in an object read the books in case of harry voldy just died he had no intention to make harry horcrux and didn't cast any spell , seriously jk never said about stabilizing spell read the books 🤦 6th book
@@shashankyadav7787 "read the books"
We all have. We are told nothing about how to create a Horcrux except that it involves murder. Nothing about stabilizing spells. Furthermore. Rowling said Harry was Horcrux. She didn't say anything about him not being a "true horcrux". Nothing.
So...read the books.
The stone should have also been destroyed when the ring was destroyed, meaning its magic shouldn’t have worked…. I guess you can say that voldy made this horcrux improperly. However, by the time he made Harry’s horcrux this art would have been perfected.
Voldemort used the Elder Wand on Harry with the "adava kedavra" spell. However, Harry was the rightful owner of the wand and the wand would not attack his owner. The wand attacked and killed Voldemort's soul/horcrux, but not Harry. That's why Voldemort fell to the ground. Harry just fainted. Since Harry was the owner of the resurrection stone, he could contact Albus. He also owned the invisibility cloak and these together made him the master of death. When Narcissa talked to Harry he came back to and she found him alive. Harry was the master of death and couldn't be killed. That was the magic that protected him. Later on, he broke the Elder Wand, at which point he stopped being the master of death.
Nice explanation!
Except for the fact that Harry didn't break the wand in the book, only the movie. In the book, he returned it to Dumbledore's grave.
@@battletoads22 indeed. My posting is about the movies. 😉
@@CarmineQB7 🙏
@@battletoads22they should have done that in the movie. That would've been cool to see .
Having the cloak alone makes him more powerful.
In the story of the 3 brothers the youngest was able to hide from death until the end.
I highly doubt he wore it 24/7
If I remember right the youngest brother had a son. So no he couldn't have had it on 24/7 or he wouldn't have met anyone and had a child.
Dumbledore could see harry why couldn't death?
thats just a tale the real creators of the hallows were the peverels brothers.
Funny how that Cloak could hide the brother from Death but couldn't hide people from detection spells. The only truly special thing about it, it until the last book or so, was that it endured longer than any normal Cloak. Then towards the end it suddenly became able to resist summoning spells.
@@gimmekromer1151 Exactly.
Nobody can EVER return from death. This is one of the pillars of the Harry Potter world's rules. So Harry never died.
I disagree. I think in this instance Harry was allowed to, because of his family. His ancestors is stated to have lived to an old age and removed the cloak to greet death as an old friend. I think in this instance, we don't actually see Dumbledore, but death disguised as Dumbledore. An "old friend" of Harry's. Death knows Harry won't choose to move on, and instead returns him to the world of the living but presents the option anyways.
@@captain_kidding Only the third brother, Ignotus, was said to use the cloak to "avoid death," and that was a story, not actual facts. Even if that was something the cloak could do, its power was to "not be found by death," not to "return from it." So, even if you consider the story of the Deathly Hallows true in all of its aspects, the cloak still couldn't bring back Harry from the dead; hence, he didn't die.
The curse killed voldemorts soul in him thus why he was there with him in the void @@ZachSawyer2077
The issue with the killing curse not giving Harry another scar is actually pretty easy to quash. The killing curse doesn't usually leave a mark at all. However, a soul that has just been violently ripped apart reaching out in desperation to live may very well do so. And the evidence to back this up is that Harry's scar acts up anytime he is near Voldemort or one of the Horcruxes. So, I believe it's the physical manifestation of Voldemort's soul attaching to Harry, not from the spell backfiring.
As for the Horcrux needing to be destroyed, between the fact that a regular Horcrux likely needing some form of incantation or ritual to embed the piece of soul into an object (which was definitely not done with Harry), it's also not well documented how a piece of soul will normally interact with an actual living thing. The only other case is Nagini, which I believe may be a transfigured item due to her near indestructability (why wouldn't you apply such a spell to yourself if you could).
I do like the theory that Harry became the master of death, and thus was spared from it. But I do feel these arguments don't hold much water.
"How are you Harry?"
"Scar's actin' up. Still. Mustn't grumble. Happens every time there's going to be a thunderstorm or there's a Dark Wizard of extraordinary power about. That and me lumbago."
Honestly I have wondered if Voldemort hadn't made himself unintentionally a horcruxes for Harry by using his blood
The theory of him being the true master of death is alluring, but it doesn't really take everything into account. Yes, the containers of other Horcrux's were destroyed when the pieces of souls were destroyed, but they were all inanimate objects while Harry is a living person. I think it more likely that the Elder Wand recognized Harry as it's master and didn't want to kill him, so it chose the piece of Voldemort's soul instead, and the shock of that knocked both Harry and Voldemort out at the same time and would have been enough for Harry to die, obviously.
It didn't kill Voldemort because Nagini was still the remaining Horcrux that needed to be destroyed, and it was only afterwards that he became completely mortal again. We also know that Neville cut Nagini's head off while her body simply slumped to the ground, lending further credence to the idea that a living thing made into a Horcrux operates under a different set of rules than inanimate objects do. While Harry becoming a Horcrux was, at best, an incomplete process, the fact remains that living Horcrux's clearly exist under a different set of rules than ones that are made from inanimate objects.
Intention of dying is just as important as dying oneself
YES! I always wondered about the way Hermione describing horcruxes, where the container needs to be destroyed for the piece of soul to die. Yet Harry's body endured while the soul fragment died? No, it never made any sense. Harry as the Master of Death is believed by many in general, I guess it's more of a discussion what it potentially entails. Can you actually cheat death, like going back to the world of living, as a MoD?
Good theory.
hes not a normal horcrux therefore the rules doesnt apply.
It wasn't the killing curse that created the mark on Harry's forehead. Harry was marked as a horrocrux that was accidentally created when the killing curse bounced off Harry (thanks to Lily's old magical protection) and hit Tom Riddle Jr. The last small piece of soul in desperation attached itself to Harry, causing the mark.
He’s not a horcrux though, it’s just easier for us to refer to him as one for simplicity but he has not been part of the process required to make one like all of Voldemort’s other horcruxes
"Rather the cloudy vapor had not yet formed into surroundings."
So Harry went into a Nintendo 64 version of King's Cross? 🤣
"The Elder Wand didn't change alliance when Voldermort death cursed Harry, because he didn't fight back. Unlike Dumbledore who fought furiously back when Draco disarmed him. That counts!", pointed Dumbledore out calmly.
I’m cackling. This is such a hilarious plot hole 🤣
If memory serves, Draco "dueled" Dumbledore in that he disarmed him, and it was not Dumbledore's intention to be disarmed. In other words, Dumbledore lost his wand to Draco.
Harry was not fighting Voldemort and was not disarmed by him. Therefore, Harry never lost his wand to Voldemort.
The wand could have still chosen to switch allegiance, because it won't abide weakness, but sacrificing yourself to save everyone is not the act of a weak man. (Compare to Wormtail who would not sacrifice himself for his friends.)
I think the elder wand would have changed its allegiance to Voldemort AFTER if Harry had chosen to move on to the afterlife while in limbo. The curse cast on Harry was cast from the elder wand. The disarming spell from Draco was successfully cast on the current master, and possessor of the elder wand, Dumbledore, which is why it changed allegiance to Draco. (The Dumbledore said calmly joke made me lol)
This is very though-provoking!
That said, after thinking more carefully about it, Harry himself was never really a proper horcrux. He didn't have the curses places upon him and such that are require for creating a horcrux. As such, is it possible that the the part of Tom Riddle's soul that was still inside of Harry could be gotten rid of without him passing and instead just having him come as close as one could get to death?
To be the master of Death you must accept it -
Harry relinquished the cloak and the stone & did not want the power of the Elder wand = His mastery over that Death.
Thus this was the sacrificial element needed to administer the same shield of Love protection for all those caught in the cross hairs of the Dark Lord and his elder wand.
This story written by J.K as a twist on that of the story of Christ, his Crucification (which the destruction of Harrys body would have been thus concicrated infront of thise standing against the Dark Lord, most likely at Hogwarts, to show the totality of his Supremacy) and Rise from the grave.
So in combination of 1. Harrys acceptance & becoming the master of Death,
2. Voldermort having made his physical body with Harrys very own Blood,
3. Harrys Blood & Sacrifice casting a Love protection charm over all from the Elder Wand,
4. Harry being the true owner of the Elder wand (having disarmed Draco),
And finally 5. The story of Christ, his Crucification & Reserection -
I surmise that Vildermorts Avada Kedavra curse did not rebound from Harry unto Voldermort at this point was in conclusion saying simply due to the Elder wands true alligiance, instead choosing to destroy the fragment of the Dark Lords soul!
lol you said "Christ, his crucification, and reserection"
Yikes
I just assumed he was dead, but having a near death experience. Meeting a guide (which may be a loved one) and getting answers to your questions is a common experience--as is being offered the choice to stay or go.
I was just listening to an account the other day by a woman who sat and talked with her grandfather in a beautiful garden, beyond which were beautiful mountains. Her grandfather told her if she wanted to stay, she just had to cross the mountains--similar to Harry taking the train to the "beyond."
I think the image Harry has of Dumbledore is the one he sees at the King's Cross, and because of that, the Dumbledore image only knows what Harry subcouncious knows/suspects.
I've often thought of this as well!
@@khunkao I don't like how much time it took for me to come up with this theory. :p
That's not a theory, it's... the book.
One thing I've noticed in all these theories about why Harry survived, I've never seen any one touch on one thing in particular. During the initial battle of Hogwarts, when Voldemort and his followers trying to break through the barrier, the elder wand was damaged. When Voldemort began attacking directly it shows the wand cracked.
I think it also may have to do with the stone Harry held just before he was killed
no the stone doesnt work
@@gimmekromer1151 why did the films make it seem it was the reason lol…so confusing as a film only watcher I thought it was a resurrection
@@classiccuneytThe films suck at actually following the plot
@@classiccuneyt yeah but the movie explained that the stone doesnt work 2 times the first being in the 3 brothers tale and the other was when Harry used it to see his dead familly and they werent really there so...
@@gimmekromer1151 the issue was showing it before he died and him holding it implies his gonna use it….why how it otherwise
I always thought that the way the killing curse worked is that it destroyed your soul rather than your body. This is why when it hit Harry, it destroyed the piece of Voldemort's soul that was within him despite the container, his body, still being intact. Both souls were hit by the spell as that is how it works, but Voldemort's served as a shield of sorts, leaving Harry's untouched and thus having the option to return to his body if he wanted to.
Also I think the killing curse by default leaves no scar or mark, so even with Harry surviving it, he should have been scarless. But Harry's situation is unique in that the person casting the spell had horcruxes and tethered to life, and I think the scar is a manisfestation of Voldemort's soul being spontaneously ripped apart and wanting to latch onto something in desperation-- the only other thing available in the room was, of course, Harry. So the scar on his head IS the piece of Voldemort inside of him, this explains why whenever he was near Voldemort, the scar acted up.
I really like this theory and I think that it fits better than what Dumbledore told Harry.
I think Dumbledore knew what harry was doing most of the . For instance in the sorceress stone on the train to Hogwarts Harry gets Dumbledores card in his chocolate frog he looks at harry then disappears .makes me wonder if he could hear Harry's conversations as well. All the paintings can hear and see?
The movie made it seem like the stone only had a one-time used.(which was B.S.) I also think that the only thing that Voldermort killed was that piece of Voldermort that was in Harry as well. But please keep in mind that Harry only lost the stone after Voldermort bounced him around a few times.
Amazing video.
Video idea .
What would Harry be like as a person if he had been brought up by his parents,
The sacrificial charm is completely overpowered. I wonder if a loyal Elder Wand could breach it.
Harry didn't have the resurrection stone when he confronted Voldemort. He's tossed it away in the forest right after he saw his parents and the others.
Did Voldemort know the Ring was the Resurrection stone before making it a horcrux or even after anytime?
In limbo, that was not Dumbledore but just a image in Harry's mind
This is an amazing theory...one that makes sense.
The scar can't have been formed by the killing curse. It's stated many times that the killing curse leaves no mark.
My theory is that the scar was formed by Voldemort's soul.
Funny thing is if you think about it Snape was the cause of Voldermort's downfall. Had the prophecy never been disclosed Harry would have never become the chosen one 😂
@@navi2710 not really, Voldy knew he only had half the prophecy but chose to attack anyway, he was his OWN downfall.
Once he decided to attack, the reason Harry survived is because Snape asked him to spare Lily and he gave her the chance to step aside, but that wasn't exactly Snape's intention...
@DraconimLt Voldy did not know he had half of the prophecy when he went to kill Harry. It was only after his return did he learned about it and even then he only knew it existed.
@@navi2710 very wrong. Voldy knew there was a prophecy, it's WHY he attacked the Potters that night! Go read the books again. Or by ''only after his return did he learned about it'' did you mean he only learned there was a 2nd part then but not what it was? Cos then you're closer...
Snape heard half the prophecy but got caught eavesdropping on Dumbledore's meeting with Trelawny and thrown out. He knew he had only part of the prophecy, as he was caught partway through. He told Voldy what he had heard AND that it was only part of it.
Voldy then chose to attack the Potters based on the info he had. It was the prophecy that MADE him want to attack them, if he hadn't heard the first half, he never would have so specifically targeted a baby as a threat. (When Snape goes to Dumbledore, he specifically tells him all this, and says 'he thinks it means Lily' to which Dumbledore says 'it did not speak of a woman but a child' and Snape corrects it to 'her son'.)
It failed and Voldy became a wraith. When he 'returned' he became very focussed on learning the REST of it, which is why he wanted to get it stolen from the Department of Mystery's.
That isn't "your theory," it's every other comment on every single video dude
Dumbledore is a master manipulator, controller, puppetmaster. He knew how to play people, he knew how to move pieces around like chess. He did stuff in a way that suited him without revealing too much. He was in control, he lied about everything for a long time and since he used and abused people, he didn't have to say much, even with Harry. He used him for his own gain. He could have taken Voldemort down years ago, but instead, played the ''long game'', used people, caused unnecessary deaths and whatever. He told half truths, as he knew how to get into Harry's head, since he can read minds. He knew how to wrangle things to make it sound convincing. He lied his way to the end, and even after. Was it to protect Harry? Not really, he didn't care about the boy like that. He used him. It wasn't about not wanting Voldemort to find out either, it was something else. Harry never cared about the Deathly Hallows that much, since he dumped the stone and broke the wand, Oh no...Dumbledore just lied, because he can and because he did.
You see. Harry didn't have to go to the forest. According to the lore, Lilly's blood was making Voldemort weaker because it was a foreign agent and his own body was destroying itself to get rid of the blood. Harry didn't have to sacrifice himself. Once the Horcruxes were gone, Voldemort was a mortal man, dead man walking. His insides were burnt out from the dark power that flooded him. He was just a vessel. Once they were gone, he would have K.O'd anyway. Harry's sacrifice was more on a biblical side of things, because ''he said to jump'' type of thing. The Deathly Hallows blocked the spell and protected Harry and apparently somehow Harry had his own Horcrux. According to the lore and a few websites, it happened during the Basilisk Fight with Fawkes
This sort of story is changing a lot of things here. .
Bit over board. Its just a book bro
Well it does Sound convincing
He did not broke the wand in the books, instead he put it back into Dumbledore's grave, after fixing his own broken wand with it. Just to be precise ;)
wasnt harry a horcrux though? wasnt that the whole point of him dying? he had to die, or that part of him, in order for voldemort to be defeated?
What utter crap. Lily’s blood was not making Voldemort weaker. That’s made up nonsense since there is absolutely nothing in the books that even suggested that.
Dumbledore couldn’t have taken Voldemort down earlier since Voldemort had made at least two Horcruxes before he graduated from Hogwarts. If Dumbledore had fought & destroyed Voldemort during the first Wizarding War then Voldemort would have returned.
Plus Dumbledore willing sacrificed his own life to help bring down Voldemort - how was that a gain for Dumbledore?
And if Dumbledore was all about power & control & manipulation then he would have become Minister of Magic when the post was offered to him.
He was actively working to permanently bring down the greatest dark wizard in history so yes, he had to be manipulative & secretive. Did the Allies go around announcing their plans during WWII? Of course not, because they had to be manipulative & keep secrets in order to succeed in bringing down the knot-seas & ending the war. That’s not going to happen if the enemy knows what you’re planning. And sacrifices always have to be made when you’re fighting a war. It’s horrible for those that don’t make it & the ones who love them but unfortunately that’s just how it is.
Stop being obtuse.
I think the reason for the forest events not leaving a mark on Harry and not destroying Voldemort's body is precisely because of the combination of the sacrifice of Lilly and the true owner of the Elder Wand. The love magic protected Harry again, but also protected Voldemort (after all he has the same blood at that point). But then again, the spell was much less powerful because the wand didn't want to hurt its owner. So there you go, Harry and Voldemort didn't die because of Lily's sacrifice, and the wand didn't leave a mark on its true master.
By the way, that's enough of a reason to doubt Harry died. If he had, the wand would have switched its allegiance immediately, after all death of the previous owner is one very clear way for that to happen, but it kept being Harry's.
Voldemort couldn’t die yet. Because Nagini was still alive.
@@classicmiriam, yes, but his body could have been destroyed just like it happened when he killed Lilly and James, but this time that didn't happen.
@@diegomartinez7180 right of course
Harry’s humility and love for other’s…as reflected in his character…saved him.
The deathly hallows doesn't make you an actual master of death, as in you don't get to choose to live or die just because you own all three. It just means you're much harder to kill, (wand and cloak) and you have the ability to talk to the dead with the ring. Also you're confusing Lily's sacrifice. In the forest Harry's tether wasn't from him but from Voldemort himself. In effect when Voldy took Harry's blood and Lily's protection for Harry into himself he created a "Lovecrux" for Harry.
It's crazy that I never thought about Harry having control of all the Deathly Hallows items by the end of DH, I remembered what Lunas father said in the film, "Together the Deathly Hallows makes one master of death" so maybe Harry remembers this later on when he goes to the forest to Voldemort, so interesting thinking about these things in a deeper way.
All true, except Dumbledore still longed to be the Master of Death, even at old age. It's because he put the ring with the Ressurection stone on his finger that he got cursed (as the ring happened to also be a Horcrux , cursed by Voldemore). Dumbledore still couldn't resist Power and was still longing to become the Master of Death and it cost him his life.
Harry was in, what is called, purgatory, the in-between, where souls are judged. Both Harry's soul and Tom's soul shard went there, but Harry was still tied to earth over Tom, his soul was still whole, and it was very similar to Harry having a horcrux, but not the same. Harry's blood, and a living body in Tom, still existed on earth. Harry's own body was still there, too, and it was living as well.
Really, Harry was possessed by Tom's soul shard, he wasn't a horcrux. That was the misinformation Dumbledore told, where he claimed that Harry was an accidental horcrux. Harry was really a host for a parasite.
Was it his mother's protection? I think not, it was a lucky coincidence that Tom used his blood, resulting in two living bodies remaining on earth anchoring Harry, as the two souls traveled to purgatory; one only temporarily.
I perfectly agree with you. This makes more sense than all the other known explanations.
If harry was defeated then why did the elder wand remain loyal to him?
The wand brought him back 😅
When I first read the chapter of Harry and Dumbledore in the train station. I didn't see it as Harry talking Dumbledore, but death itself in the form of Dumbledore. As the 3rd brother welcomed Death like an old friend.
I’ve always assumed the second explanation you attribute to Dumbledore was the best one: the killing curse hit the piece of Voldemort’s soul that was inside him. His own soul remained intact, though he was in a state of temporary deep shock. Makes sense to me. Interesting point about the Elder Wand’s allegiance remaining with Harry because he did not resist was interesting, though.
When V tried to kill infant Harry, he didn't have unicorn blood in him like he did at the end of the series. Therefore the situation with V was different therefore the same thing couldn't have happened as the first time around.
When Harry was an infant V tried to kill him in a smaller room, which could be why H ended up with the scar on his forehead. H was also an infant with more tender skin. When V tried killing Harry at the end H was older, less tender, and it was done outside - much further away than a small room. Which probably explains why no mark.
Since we never hear where the horcrux was located in H's body, or how it was contained, we can only surmise things.The part of H the horcrux was in was destroyed enough to release it from H's body. It must have been enough otherwise the horcrux wouldn't have been destroyed. One can assume a horcrux in a living being would not be contained the same way it would be in a non-living item.
H's mother had to die to put her protection onto H. H also died otherwise he wouldn't have been able to put the same protection on his friends.
The book where it says if H were to take a train he'd probably go 'on' which implies what awaits us in death. But he was tied to life because V used H's blood to get his body back. So, yeah, H died.
In reference to the Horcrux's per the 6th book (I believe) is that they make comment to the fact that anything can be imbued with a piece of the soul whether it be inanimate objects or living creatures. They mention that the downside of using a living vessel as a container is that it could still die of natural causes and take the soul fragment with it. That said, Voldemort cursing Harry would not have necessarily killed him in turn based on the wands' allegiance and that it was a headshot for a final blow in the woods.
❤ Awesome as always thanks
Dumbledore lied?!?!? I just can’t believe it!
It's all a big paradox to me. If Lilly's blood is in Voldemort too, is that why it went different? Did that protect him from a rebounding killing curse yet keeping the protection alive allowing Harry to return? Why didn't he get a second scar???
I do not believe Lily's blood did much here. The main thing it did earlier, was allow V to regain a body (blood of the enemy was required int he spell) as well as to touch Harry without immense pain/burning from the protection spell. I personally believe that once V used Harry's blood in the rite to gain a new body, the protection spell was broken. Harry wasn't protected from everything, only V, and now that V's aura (I assume) would not show some slight (very, very, very slight) trace of Lily, the protection spell should recognize V as part of Harry's family. But that's just my own supposition.
I agree with others who have said that the Elder Wand recognized harry as its rightful owner, and therefore killed the only other thing it could when it hit harry -- the bit of V's soul that had attached to him. This also explains why both of them fell down. So, the 'rebound' never happened for two reasons: 1. the protection was broken (per my supposition above) and 2. it DID kill something, V's bit of soul that attached to Harry with the original rebounded spell when Harry was a baby.
As mentioned in the video (I think, perhaps it was just comments), the scar likely did not come from the curse itself, as it is well documented and stated elsewhere in the books that the killing curse leaves no mark at all. However, a broken piece of soul very well may lash out as it attaches to someone or something as a last resort of not dying itself. (As in, when V cast the killing curse on Lily and the rebound broke his soul again. V didn't even notice that it had happened since he was so broken at that point anyway and probably had no idea a bit of soul could auto-attach to something/someone else.)
Harry:
,,FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE MUGGLES ARE EVIL!"
Dumbledore:
,,THAN YOU ARE LOST!"
My thought was that yes, he felt the effects of the killing curse and was technically clinically dead, however, the piece of the sould of voldemort took the full blast, like Nearly headless Nick took the full blast of the basilisk gaze and mrs norris was petrified. so yes he did die, but it was maybe a shock to the system due to the effect of the curse a temporary shock to harry's body.
I think Harry wasn’t dead because it was Voldemort that destroyed the holcrux and since he was the creator of it then he would be able to destroy it without any harm to the vessel. I think the other horrid vessels had to be destroyed for the horrid to be destroyed was because they were being destroyed at the hand of someone other than the creator of the horcrux.
Omg, I like your explanation much better than the one given in the book!!
Wow, thank you!
Absolutely brilliant video!! With a perfect ending! I love your content
Harry was the master of death at this point that’s why he survived.
I’ve got a question. Hopefully followers of this channel can answer. When Harry Potter met Professor Quirrell for the first time at the Leaky Cauldron they shook hands. Why didn’t Quirrells hands burn like they did when they were fighting for the Philosopher’s Stone?
The professor wasn't trying to kill him in the Leaky Cauldron like he was later on. The magic Lilly placed on him was a protection spell. It worked when he needed protection later on, but it wasn't a can't touch me spell.
I think that Professor Quirrell didn’t have Voldemort in him at the time he first met Harry at the Leaky Cauldron. A month passed between that meeting and when Harry goes to Hogwarts. Quirrell knew that Harry was coming to the school, so he sought out Voldemort and became host to him
Neither Harry or Voldemort actually died in the Forest because they were tethered to each other as "equals". Voldemort still had Horcrux Nagini after Horcrux Harry had been taken out and Voldemort was carrying Harry's mother's blood protection and the Elder Wand both which were loyal to him. The idea of what happened to me is the Avada Kedavra came from a wand loyal to it's master and struck the only thing it could that wasn't a part of Harry..the Horcrux. Voldemort and Harry essentially briefly clinically "died " from the Horcrux being destroyed and their bond being broken but because Voldemort still had Nagini he was still tethered to life and Harry was tethered to him through Lily's blood protection . This was the reason for the gleam in Dumbledore's eyes when he found out Voldemort took Harry's blood. Harry would still have the option to use that tether as it was meant for him to return to life or move on . Harry chose to return leaving the awful Horcrux behind in death thus he and Voldemort were revived.
I kind of always thought that Harry did die along with the horcrux in him & him having an anchor to the mortal world more sort of just gave him the ‘option’ to either ‘anchor back’ to the land of the living or die with the horcrux.
I always just thought he used the resurrection stone on himself lol
If it’s real and all in his head then he lies to himself.
Thanks for sharing your video.🛖🧹⚡️🪄🧙♀️
perhaps when a horcrux is placed on a living being it requires consent to apply the protection of its container. nagini gave the consent, forcing its death to destroy the horcrux, harry didn't give the horcrux consent so when he was killed the horcrux died instead as it didn't have a consenting container
the master of death theory is a good one, though there is a hole in your story, didn´t one of the elder wand owners get killed in his sleep and the ownership transfered to his murderer?
Harry willingly died without a fight. The old owner had no choice in their sleep :)
Maybe because he didn't have the other 2 hallows.
I also believe that the elder wand had something to do with it remember the words sad at the end of the final battle, between Harry and Voldemort. The elder wand flew towards Harry the master it would not kill. I believe the wand killed the part of Voldemort, instead of killing Harry. Because it would not kill him.
If Harry was protected by Lily's love--which seems to be the most popular theory, then Harry couldn't die for as long as his blood ran in Voldemort's veins. BUT! He was given the choice to die while in limbo by moving on. If he was alive because Voldemort still lives, the choice shouldn't have been there because...he didn't have a choice--he would have had to go back because....Voldemort is still alive with protected blood running through his veins. The choice suggests control and will (some might say master of one's fate). What makes most sense is that Harry was the Master of Death at that moment. The blood theory doesn't make sense. In fact, it may even be arguable that Harry would simply be immortal because Lily's love protects him, unless there is a qualification of some sort, like, the protection only works against one person (Voldemort in Harry's case).
When i read it, (i was a teen) even i knew it was the deathly hallows...
great video
Harry casting sacrificial magic on everyone never made sense to me. It was always my understanding that the person who sacrifices themself has to have the choice to live. It was stressed that Voldemort wasn't going to kill Lily, and that was part of what made the magic work. Otherwise the magic would have been cast constantly during the first war with Voldemort, or even at other times during the series.
Yes, Voldemort gave Harry a choice, but neither option included living. It was either come here and die, or try to run away and hide and I will destroy everything and everyone until I find you and kill you.
So, the elder wand decided to actually k¡ll Harry in the forest but chose not to in the great hall? Someone make it make sense for me. I've always found the closing of the story to be so confusing and each and every explanation I hear still hasn't helped me piece it together 100%. There's always something on the sidelines that make me question it all. Harry's "death" is questioned a lot for a reason.
Top Billing! Thanks.
I think Harry did die, but it was a sort of near death experience. The entire scene is reminiscent of what people who've had one describe. Harry's body and soul was parted by the killing curse, but Harry, in this junctionpoint inbetween life and afterlife, chose to return to his body.
Harry being the Master of Death was probably what made this choice possible to begin with.
I wish Dumbledore had mentioned that Harry would no longer be a Parseltongue.
No - there's a simpler explanation - when he arrived at the "train station" neither Harry nor the piece of Voldemort's sole had died (both moved).. both in theory had the option to "go on" or catch a train and The piece of Voldemort simply remained in that purgatory - afraid to move to either (because Voldemort always feared death)
idk, quite clearly said that Dumbledore wanted Snape to unalive him to stop his suffering and save Draco. He never anticipated Draco unarming him and leading Harry to unarm draco causing the Elder Wand to change its allegiance to him. Master of Death took off The Cloak and greeted death as old friend. He clearly Loved Ginny and gave away a future with her to protect all of them. As you can see in the Pt 2 Movie the ones pulled from rings aren't really there and more along called out to him to unalive himself. so they too could have not been real. Tom did take his blood teithering Harry to Life and Tom wanted to destroy harry in cold blood so it took out the next thing. piece of his soul. The Elder Wand had a history of switching sides even midflight through its history.
I don't think the Deathly Hollows tethered Harry to life, I think his sacrifice did. At least in Christianity, it's said there's no greater love than to lay down one's life for their neighbor. I think the same could potentially be said in the Harry Potter universe. Maybe when one sacrifices themself for whoever, they get the choice of moving on or they can continue to live. They get the choice to continue to live because their life was cut unnaturally short. If they choose to move on, a sacrificial spell is then cast over whoever the person protected. Maybe part of the person's soul is what protects the saved person. Someone might say, "Well, why didn't Lilly come back then?" Simple, she knows the prophecy. Harry needs to live in order to defeat Voldemort. Lilly choosing to come back removes her protection, which then leads to Harry's death and Voldemort never dies.
Brilliant
I enjoyed this video. It's well thought out, but I'm not sure Dumbledore lied in the slightest. Dumbledore does NOT know everything! Voldemort & Harry had ventured into realms of magic that no one ever had. There was simply know possible way of knowing. Dumbledore admitted as much when discussing how Harry's wand had responded to Voldemort on his escape from Privet Drive. Further, the Hallows had never been united before, so how could Dumbledore be sure of their effects? The point regarding the destruction of the vessel (Harry as a Horcrux) is interesting, but we have to remember that there are many elaborate spells required to create a Horcrux. I believe that Voldemort had intended for Harry's death to be the final component to create his 6th Horcrux, but we don't know what vessel Voldemort had intended to turn into the Horcrux. The point is that whatever spell/s cast to bind the piece of Voldemort's soul to the object were never cast in the first place. The torn piece of soul simply latched onto Harry's as the only suitable "container" available at that time. So, Harry wasn't a *true* Horcrux. He was a simply a container for that piece of Voldemort's soul.
It's simple. Voldemort used Harry's Blood to rebuild his body, ostensively creating a Horcrux for Harry, (Tethering him to Life). Voldemort didn't know that he created a Horcrux trying to kill Harry giving Harry abilities that he never was born with nor trained to have. When he made his final Horcrux within Nagini it was his 9th instead of the 7th that was intended, Harry being the first Nagini became the 8th and when he recreated his body intentionally using Harry blood to absorb the Magical protection his mother gave Harry is absorbed (unbeknownst to him) A HORCRUX! Splitting a Horcrux (He didn't know he had created) into 2 One part that remained in Harry and the second part back into himself. Making Voldermort's soul into 9 pieces, Harry willingly sacrificed himself ignoring the fear of death became the Master of it. The rules were clear: The Elder Wand was won, in combat The resurrection stone wasn't used in order to keep the dead tethered to life, And the cloak wasn't used to live because of fear. So Death relinquished its Claim on his soul. When Voldemort "Killed" Harry the only life that was extinguished was the 1/2 Horcrux left in Harry's Body. Voldemort having only 1/2 of tether left died then, but Harry was still alive and the Horcrux of Harry was still in Voldemort. So all it took was him using the wand that was still loyal to Harry not to go against its master and that's why Harry was able to survive, Voldemort was defeated. Why Dumbledore never lied. Dumbledore was a Wizard of Knowledge that he never revealed to anyone because he didn't want to answer "Slughorn type" questions. About Dark Magic that he explored because he could have been the Darkest Wizard that has ever lived.
I disagree that Dumbledore is one of the most infamous, deceitful, and corrupt wizards of all time. Deceitful, manipulative ... sure. To play the game of life and death with strong wizards that literally want to kill you and others that want to see you fail or the power for themselves, you have to be willing to play outside the norm. What do you think Poker is? An honest man's game? Pfft. Dumbledore literally had to play Poker constantly to put the people in the places he needed them to put an end to Voldemort. If he was so corrupt, then why would he accept death and why would he do something as stupid as sacrificing himself to try to ensure the master wand ownership would die with him.
I think that Dumbledore was EXACTLY what he inferred ... Harry's construct that was influenced by the teachings of Dumbledore.
Harry did not die because death himself favoured him. Harry is said to be the chosen one…. Chosen by who?
Death of course. Voldemort insulted death, having chosen to cheat it multiple times. As such death picks him as a familiar.
Harry keeps surviving impossible wounds. The bassalisk venom and faux (loyalty was a lie). Demanters would have killed Harry Potter in 3, as he would not have gone into the future (it is death who casts patronus the first time). It it death who leads Harry to the sword, and most of the cases where Harry had help. Death also gives Harry the resurrection stone
Actually It’s Because The Horcrux Inside Harry Actually Took Harry’s Place Last Second, So The Horcrux Inside Of Harry Actually Unintentionally Saved Harry’s Life. That’s How It Works With Human Horcruxes, The Fragment Of The Creator’s Soul Is Destroyed Instead Of The Person, My Best Friend And I Actually Talked About How Harry Could’ve Survived And We Discovered How
Or... the Elder Wand wouldn't hurt it's master... so instead it killed Volde's soul fragment and the resulting trauma caused Harry to go unconscious and have hallucinations of Dumbledore in his head.
I think a Horcrux can't be created from a death caused by a battle with Voldemort. Harry and his mother did not defend with a wand or magic. It seems to be a cold-blooded murder is needed. Also, the soul can not be split more than 7 times, as 7 is important in much of the Harry Potter story. Harry becoming the unintended Horcrux caused the 7th split of Voldemort's soul, leaving what was left as only an 8th piece of Voldemort without a body. More to this but see what you think about this first.
I don't think the reason you mentioned was to keep temptation away from Harry, because he heard the story of the Deathly Hallows. He must've put the pieces together himself or else Hermiony would've elaborated on it. In the end he was sure he would survive because there were 3 combined spells from different magic. Spell 1 came from the resurrection stone he held and 'used' to see the ghosts of his friends/family was actually able to bring himself back, instead of any of those ghosts. Spell number 2 came from his mother's love. The third spell came from the items he had, maybe these 3 spells combined would be needed to keep the body intact (2), the soul tethered to his body (1) and to bring his soul back (3). But it's not stated by JK Rowling anywhere.
You’re wrong: The Lilly’s blood tethering him to life fits I agree. The reason why the curse didn’t rebound onto Voldemort this time is because Harry had to accept death which lifts the enchantment. His body didn’t have to be destroyed because it was Voldemort who killed him you have to think Magic works in different ways for example Harry’s wand protecting him on its own accord, same with the horcrux. If Voldemort kills it then magic does it magic thing and wallah Voldemort destroys his own soul off his own negligence. I like the last take I think Dumbledore was trying to protect him from himself but why would Harry turn to the dark side after conquering death? He defeated the darkest wizard he’s already have the 3 hollows he has family friends everything he could ever dream of he have no reason to get caught up in the Glory of being the Master of Death that’s not his persona all his mentors over the course of time instilled humbleness in him taught they were kinda grooming him to be humble the whole time especially after Voldemort returned you notice how everyone was always guiding him on the righteous path teaching him righteous magic i think he would have been humble about being the Master of Death he probably would have only told Ron and Hermione but it wouldn’t be nothing new or shocking because of all they’ve went through
I don't necessarily disagree with your theory, but there are explanations on some of the supposed weaknesses in Dumbledore's theory. First, Voldemort made Harry a horkrux by accident; he did not use the process he used to create the other horkruxes. Therefore, it is possible the bond between Voldemort's soul and Harry was strong enough to keep Voldemort alive but not strong enough so that Harry had to die for the piece of soul to be destroyed. Second, we are told the place the killing curse hit Harry "felt like the bruise of an iron-clad punch." So, perhaps the physical damage was on his chest over the heart: a place not as often exposed as his face. Third, Harry himself says he meant to die, and that's what protected everyone else. As a final point, remember that, when Harry told Dumbledore in Goblet of Fire that Voldemort had taken his blood, Dumbledore seemed to look triumphant. This suggests that the sacrifice still protected Harry when he meant to die. This is strengthened by the fact that Dumbledore told Snape that Voldemort must kill Harry for the piece of soul to be destroyed. Voldemort did not need to destroy the other horkruxes for him to become vulnerable. Why would it matter who killed Harry unless the sacrifice protecting Harry from Voldemort still held?
I think it has to do with the elder wand being Harry's and not being able to kill its master.
I just thought I would never figure it out.
have recently stumbled upon a lot of fanfics using a new trope = Lily is descended from a gaunt squib and thus voldy couldn't kill the last heir of slytherin due to some ritual salazar did to his bloodline.......................another trope is that it was the last 2 Peverell descendants = when Peverell blood is on the line ...Death itself changes the rules. I prefer this to dumbles "the power of love" nonsense
he had the stone of resurrection with him i always thought he resurrected himself before he died
I don't think he ever met dumbledore. All the information he gets in that chapter is already available to him. He just pieces it together himself and imagines dumbledore is telling him.
It has never been clarified that Harry was a real horcrux. Yes, a piece of Voldemort’s soul was attached to his own souls but hence the rebound of the killing curse, V never made the proper ritual. IMO it was a unique case and the rules of horcrixesnnever applied to Harry. V ever had the same command over Harry as he had over Nagini even though they both supposedly were living horcruxes.
When V AK-ed Harry in the forest, there was indeed a sort of backlash because V was thrown back in a heap but the killing curse didn’t rebound on V himself but on the soul peace (not horcrux) in Harry.
perhaps the reason dumbledore did not tell the truth, was because he was not there. a theory, harry was killed and had the option to go on or return, but he had to work it out for himself which he would prefer. basically his soul was fighting to survive. he imagined Dumbledore there having a conversation with him as he tried to piece together the events and reason to live or go on. people will talk to themselves, same idea. a part of him wanted to go on. the other part wanted to return to live. they had a chat, and the one who wanted to live convince the other one to wake up and continue on.
Dumbledore told harry that he's now master of death. Cause a real master of death do not run away from death.
I assumed that the avada kedavra killes a soul. since harry had two souls inside, the avada kedavra killed the weakest of both. in this case, voldemort's.
this would mean that harry didn't die but his soul had to recover from the shock of being "killed".
harry, from my perspective, just had a near death experience and his mind wanted answers he didn't had. his mind took the shape of dumbledore to "answer" those questions. in fact, it's harry reasoning and knowledge the one that answers.
if you look carefully, the answers dumbledore gives are things that harry already know or suspects. this dumbledore doesn't gives us any real information despite answering harry's questions.
I'm not as close minded as Hermione, nor as demented as xenophilius, but it was never proven that the hallows were truly made by death. that's just a tale about the three brothers. it's a common belief, true or not, that the hallows were made by the brothers.
even if it were true that the hollow were made by death, there's no way that they could grant you immortality or the power to resurrect yourself. death would never give such a power to mere mortals. in addition to that, it wasn't death who choose what gifts give to the brothers, they were the ones to choose what they wanted. why would death make it so owning those three gifts give you power over death itself beyond the regular use of the objects (wand: the power to cause death, stone: the power to revert death, cloak: the power to prevent death)
remember that it's "canon" that the gifts were a trick to doom the brothers. antioch was murdered to steal his wand and cadmus commited suicide to truly reunite with his loved.
Ignotus was the only one that truly outsmarted death (if we are to believe the tale) because he didn't want to mock death, he only wanted his safety. that's why Ignotus lasted until he decided to go on a new adventure and welcomed death as an old friend.
the tale doesn't makes that much sense in that point other than teaching that arrogance leads to doom and prudence leads to a long life. death created the hollows to punish the brothers so, why would death make it so reuniting the items would make you it's master? why did death trick the two first brothers but let ignotus pull one on it?
because the tale is false. the hollows were made by the brothers and have no real power over death other than being able to kill with the wand and conjure a fake version of a loved one.
That would explain a lot.
Since voldemort created the horcrux he might have been able to destroy it without destroying the container. It's untested magical theory
Two content/video ideas for free. 1. What happens to the Muggle PM's when they either retire or lose an election? Do they get their memory wiped? 2. How does religion work? They obviously celebrate Xmas. What about catholic church and witch trials? etc.
So it is my interpretation that Harry died and it’s simple why.
It’s very clear kings cross and taking with dumbledore mimics a near death experience as explained by those who have had them
People either NDE explain they experience very similar things
They are also give a choice at times like Harry to go back
Finally!!! Someone say whatever I thought when i read the book. And this is the only reason why I do not like so much this book.