This actually blows my mind how this works 😀 I wish I could afford one of these tilt/shift lenses. Its very strange how you went from just a few inches of depth of field to a couple of feet by simply tilting the lens just a few degrees 👍
Thanks, but do remember that that huge depth of field is still in a thin plane, so the benefits of tilt for landscape that people sometimes think of, are lost if you have an awkwardly placed tree ;-) But for isolating subjects and covering 'flat' things it can be really special. BTW I started off with a used TS-E24 years ago - the samyang 24mm is also quite good. They also hold 2nd hand value reasonably well.
@@KeithCooper Absolutely Keith, I photograph small action figures for composites and a tilt function could capture my subjects in a single frame rather than having to always focus stack. I did consider the Samyang and might still take the plunge. The Nikkors are a bit out of my price range even second hand 😉
One thing I've only briefly experimented with is stacking multiple tilted images - it's possible (with a small aperture) to take pictures with a slight change in tilt/shift/position and combine them. I do normal focus stacking for my industrial macro work, and I've not really come across a setup where tilt would have worked, but I'm sure it's a possibility.
Keith, I believe you came to America and were peeping into my window! This video was exactly what I needed. Just yesterday I was experimenting (relatively unsucessfully) with a shallow wooden box of fake green apples in this exact setup and I concluded I needed to review your materials to figure out what I was doing. It would appear that the tilt "swing" movement has to be parallel to the plane of the object(s) upon which you are intending to get into focus? I did figure out the bit about using shift as needed to recompose, so maybe there is hope for me yet. I should have your book in hand this week. Thanks for your efforts!
Glad it's of help. Gives me something to do whilst the web site is broken... You are right about the direction of tilt - I've one even more complex example to try but that will be next week...
Hi Keith, it is based on the Scheimflug condition "the objective and image planes must be inclined with respect to each other so that they intersect and their intersection line falls into the object plane or plane of focus to be sharply imaged. " But that is the theory and I believe all the apps based on the rule and lens equation. But of course photograper practise cannot be really based on this only! You need understanding and experience and that what you demonstrated. Thanks for that!
Thanks - it was several years of trying to explain this stuff to photographers that led me to deliberately move any maths or mention of the Scheimpflug stuff to an appendix in my book ;-) The practicalities of using real (non thin) lenses, with unknown physical tilt axis positions with respect to the optical elements make a lot of the theoretical stuff less than useful for actual photography at shorter working distances, especially when using small cameras and lenses rather than full view camera movements.
Yes, photographer are more artists and don’t want to get bothered with maths😄 I’m physicist and therefore know the theory. But in the field trying to take a good shot the theory does not help too much, unfortunately😉
Well, I originally did astrophysics at university, so the maths is not daunting, just useless for day to day use ;-) The nearest I get to it is a set of 'tilt tables' which work well, with just the tilt, the focal length and one measured distance. That is pushing it for some photographers, who seem to resent the need for any numbers to intrude into 'their ar't. I had someone send me some wonderful diagrams about how some of my explanations could be improved, but without an introductory course on optics they would be meaningless to many photographers and actively put others off reading any further. I do enjoy teaching this stuff (when we could) since it helps me come up with lots of different ways of explaining things and looking for the 'lightbulb moment'. That said I do sometimes have difficulty with more 'artist' photographers who almost want to wear a lack of understanding as some sort of badge...
@@KeithCooper I understand :-) Just to say, I'm thinking about to buy a tilt shift lens since years now. But the Nikon’s are expensive even used ones and for me as an amateur it is hard to justify to spend so much money. But perhaps a Samyang or If I luck and get used Nikon lens for a good price, perhaps I will buy. I defiantly like to play with such toys. Probably I will start first with your book in order to get a good knowledge about the photographic topic.
Thank you Keith. Great example... may i request a short video on rotate and swing for vertical subjects?... i am currently working on tse 90mm f2.8 L canon latest... on 1Dsmk3...
Actually, just watch the video on a phone turned 90 degrees and it applies to a vertical plane ;-) ...There is no difference, you just use tilt to the left/right rather than up down. I do have another video to do but it's about diagonal tilt
@@KeithCooper great, diagonal tilt will also be a very useful skill to practice ... thank you once again.. looking forward to your video on diagonal tilt... 👍🏻
Good video Keith thanks. If you used say f11 does the depth of field increase to the size of a normal lens? Would you advise using f11 for a landscape scene using tilt? thanks
Thanks I use the wider apertures here so as to be able to show the effect more clearly in the video. As with an untilted lens, a smaller aperture will increase DOF, but the key is to note that the plane of sharp focus is a wedge, so you need to think carefully about where the wedge of focus runs through the scene. One result of this is that tilt is nowhere nearly as useful for landscape as many people first assume [I'm talking 35mm sensors/film here]. A nearby tree with sharp and less sharp sections does not work well. That's not to say it isn't useful, but it's not a simple gain (and ideally shouldn't be visible). I have for several years been looking for a landscape shot I was already thinking of taking which would _clearly_ show the benefits of tilt. I'm still looking ;-) These are the two books I read some time ago, to which all my tilt shift articles, videos and book owe a debt to: www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/download.html
@@KeithCooper Hello Keith, thank you for your detailed reply. I was just bidding on a TS lens on eBay, I missed out. Maybe it was meant to be. I was hoping to be able to stop focus stacking and shoot one shot front to back sharp landscapes. While I can shoot one shot personally its a compromise, I love razor sharp foreground, midground and want sharp background. It appears a TS lens isn't as useful for my full frame R5 Canon as I thought. I'll look at you attached link. Thanks again Keith.
If it's any interest, all my tilt/shift articles [and vids] are indexed at: www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/tilt-and-shift-lens-articles-and-reviews/
I own 3 Canon tilt-shift lenses but almost never use the tilt feature. For my uses (to photograph architecture), tilt does not ever seem necessary, but I wonder if I'm missing opportunities to use the tilt feature more. Apart from photographing products, or just as a gimmick (toy-effect), what do you use tilt for Keith?
If I looked through the photos I've taken for my work in the last year, I'd find very few using tilt. Where I have done it's been to look along a wall/floor/ceiling and I've placed the plane of focus along that structure. See the looking up a brick wall shot in my TS-E45 review (about half way through) www.northlight-images.co.uk/ts-e45mm-f2-8-lens-review/ There is quite a lot about using tilt in that particular review
Hallo Keith, I would like to buy your book but on the website is written "We are temporarily not able to deliver orders to the EU" . I am in Germany. Is there any way to get your book? Thanks. Peter.
Not at all - just means you may have to reposition the camera slightly and re-do the tilt set-up process. As I mention in the video, it is an iterative process and varies for each lens
@@jean-claudemuller3199 Which bracket is that? All the ones I have either don't allow tilt (rogeti TSE frame - for shift)) or clamp at the rear, meaning it's still the lens that moves with tilt. BTW YT will drop comments with URLs in them, so if you could give some form of info that's not a link, others can see it?
how can I tilt the focus plane to 90 degree while still having the focus up close? Or how do I have to tilt the lense WHILE FOCUSING to not change the amount of tilt? There are many videos about SHOWing the tilt effect, not I couldn't finde ONE that answers these questions.
Because the closer you work, the amount of tilt needed goes up Actual real world lenses just don't tilt enough. That's what limits the tilt of the plane for close working. It's why macro and tilt don't go together that well... Basic optics - see my recent video about the two Merklinger books for a more rigorous [but mathematical] explanation?
@@KeithCooper Tbf, I knew that upclose and high angle tilt isn't realistic. (it was more like a "what would it need" kind of thought.) But for that too, I couldn't find any actual in depth explanation. Ether (most of the time) some real like chrash curses, like this video here, showing how to handle it, OR some drawn in Paint like visualisations of how the tilt itself can be thought of. But also not really explained WHY the plane tilts THAT way. [tldr] I mean, why does the focal plane NOT stay paralel to the lense? I mean you could think that the focus images is kinda 3D hologram-ish behind the lense and the focus is just where the sensor gets placed in this virtual field. Why does this "imagine some virtual lines, extending from your sensor and lense invinitely, and where rthey meat, thats whre the tilted plane mearts to and jada jada" work as it works. How does it actually physically work? how is the light itself "placed" behind the lense so that it gets tilted that way? etc. That's where my second question about the focusing comes from. Why can't they built it to raise or lower the plane without effecting the tilt angle when focusing, just like when I pull or push it when not tilted? (This question is not meant particularly for this video but is more a general thought.) [/tldr] But that aside, may I refrase my question. What would it need, at casual tripot hight, to lay the focal plane on a lake? For that your focal plane would need to be tilted close to 90 degree. And what if you want to tilt it beyond 90 degree?
I tend to avoid the optical theory and any maths, which is what you need to explain it at a fundamental level. There is no better way of killing off any video views from most photographers than introduce maths ;-) I much rather cover some aspects of this in written articles, where I can edit/update/refine them - my videos are mostly shot in one take, with no script. Your question is a relatively easy one to answer, it depends on the focal length and tilt alone. Your height above the lake surface is the distance 'J' here [see the tilt tables] www.northlight-images.co.uk/using-lens-tilt-on-your-digital-slr/ Changing the focus setting is what changes the plane - if you have a lens that focuses beyond infinity, then the plane will tilt beyond 90º This from www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/tilt-and-shift-lens-articles-and-reviews/ My videos are generally intended as supplements to my written work and book ;-)
@@KeithCooper yeah, fair. Wanting to know it in detail but not having the focus span when just written, is kinda a me thing. But thank's for the links. I will read them later ^^ I have a mft camera. And for my use case, I would need a 25mm lense. Or 12mm at best. but even 35 would be ok. Sadly I could only find 50mm or higher.
![Why not to buy a tilt-shift lens [Fuji 30/5.6].Tilt-shift isn't magic, what do the lenses really do](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zt9DjlaiUHA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why not to buy a tilt-shift lens [Fuji 30/5.6].Tilt-shift isn't magic, what do the lenses really do](/img/tr.png)
![Tilt/shift lenses & how to use them [50 mins.] Live webinar recording from Keith Cooper](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ghURqDf5fMY/mqdefault.jpg)
Well illustrated by this example. Keith, you're the best at tilt shift
Thanks!
Excellent and I just purchased your book. I didn't have a workflow / steps to getting better DOF until now.
Hope you enjoy it!
Very interesting. I'll probably never do this, but it's great to have such a thorough demonstration.
Thanks - it's probably one of the trickiest things to set up with tilt, so I'm glad it was of interest.
Great example Keith and your book is full of useful info, can definitely recommend it .
Thanks - the tilt examples are the hardest to do as videos.
Thanks for the video.
Thanks - glad it was of interest
Good job Keith
Thanks - the tilt settings are the most difficult to explain
This actually blows my mind how this works 😀 I wish I could afford one of these tilt/shift lenses. Its very strange how you went from just a few inches of depth of field to a couple of feet by simply tilting the lens just a few degrees 👍
Thanks, but do remember that that huge depth of field is still in a thin plane, so the benefits of tilt for landscape that people sometimes think of, are lost if you have an awkwardly placed tree ;-) But for isolating subjects and covering 'flat' things it can be really special.
BTW I started off with a used TS-E24 years ago - the samyang 24mm is also quite good. They also hold 2nd hand value reasonably well.
@@KeithCooper Absolutely Keith, I photograph small action figures for composites and a tilt function could capture my subjects in a single frame rather than having to always focus stack. I did consider the Samyang and might still take the plunge. The Nikkors are a bit out of my price range even second hand 😉
One thing I've only briefly experimented with is stacking multiple tilted images - it's possible (with a small aperture) to take pictures with a slight change in tilt/shift/position and combine them.
I do normal focus stacking for my industrial macro work, and I've not really come across a setup where tilt would have worked, but I'm sure it's a possibility.
Keith, I believe you came to America and were peeping into my window! This video was exactly what I needed. Just yesterday I was experimenting (relatively unsucessfully) with a shallow wooden box of fake green apples in this exact setup and I concluded I needed to review your materials to figure out what I was doing. It would appear that the tilt "swing" movement has to be parallel to the plane of the object(s) upon which you are intending to get into focus? I did figure out the bit about using shift as needed to recompose, so maybe there is hope for me yet. I should have your book in hand this week. Thanks for your efforts!
Glad it's of help. Gives me something to do whilst the web site is broken...
You are right about the direction of tilt - I've one even more complex example to try but that will be next week...
thank you so much
Glad it was of interest!
Hi Keith, it is based on the Scheimflug condition "the objective and image planes must be inclined with respect to each other so that they intersect and their intersection line falls into the object plane or plane of focus to be sharply imaged. "
But that is the theory and I believe all the apps based on the rule and lens equation. But of course photograper practise cannot be really based on this only! You need understanding and experience and that what you demonstrated. Thanks for that!
Thanks - it was several years of trying to explain this stuff to photographers that led me to deliberately move any maths or mention of the Scheimpflug stuff to an appendix in my book ;-)
The practicalities of using real (non thin) lenses, with unknown physical tilt axis positions with respect to the optical elements make a lot of the theoretical stuff less than useful for actual photography at shorter working distances, especially when using small cameras and lenses rather than full view camera movements.
Yes, photographer are more artists and don’t want to get bothered with maths😄
I’m physicist and therefore know the theory. But in the field trying to take a good shot the theory does not help too much, unfortunately😉
Well, I originally did astrophysics at university, so the maths is not daunting, just useless for day to day use ;-)
The nearest I get to it is a set of 'tilt tables' which work well, with just the tilt, the focal length and one measured distance. That is pushing it for some photographers, who seem to resent the need for any numbers to intrude into 'their ar't. I had someone send me some wonderful diagrams about how some of my explanations could be improved, but without an introductory course on optics they would be meaningless to many photographers and actively put others off reading any further.
I do enjoy teaching this stuff (when we could) since it helps me come up with lots of different ways of explaining things and looking for the 'lightbulb moment'.
That said I do sometimes have difficulty with more 'artist' photographers who almost want to wear a lack of understanding as some sort of badge...
@@KeithCooper I understand :-)
Just to say, I'm thinking about to buy a tilt shift lens since years now.
But the Nikon’s are expensive even used ones and for me as an amateur it is hard to justify to spend so much money.
But perhaps a Samyang or If I luck and get used Nikon lens for a good price, perhaps I will buy.
I defiantly like to play with such toys.
Probably I will start first with your book in order to get a good knowledge about the photographic topic.
The samyang 24mm is pretty good to start with - all my first tilt/shift lenses were used ones!
Thank you Keith. Great example... may i request a short video on rotate and swing for vertical subjects?... i am currently working on tse 90mm f2.8 L canon latest... on 1Dsmk3...
Actually, just watch the video on a phone turned 90 degrees and it applies to a vertical plane ;-) ...There is no difference, you just use tilt to the left/right rather than up down.
I do have another video to do but it's about diagonal tilt
@@KeithCooper great, diagonal tilt will also be a very useful skill to practice ... thank you once again.. looking forward to your video on diagonal tilt... 👍🏻
I use a Screen magnifier. There are some that snapps on the screen and I shall get one
Good video Keith thanks. If you used say f11 does the depth of field increase to the size of a normal lens? Would you advise using f11 for a landscape scene using tilt? thanks
Thanks
I use the wider apertures here so as to be able to show the effect more clearly in the video.
As with an untilted lens, a smaller aperture will increase DOF, but the key is to note that the plane of sharp focus is a wedge, so you need to think carefully about where the wedge of focus runs through the scene.
One result of this is that tilt is nowhere nearly as useful for landscape as many people first assume [I'm talking 35mm sensors/film here]. A nearby tree with sharp and less sharp sections does not work well. That's not to say it isn't useful, but it's not a simple gain (and ideally shouldn't be visible).
I have for several years been looking for a landscape shot I was already thinking of taking which would _clearly_ show the benefits of tilt. I'm still looking ;-)
These are the two books I read some time ago, to which all my tilt shift articles, videos and book owe a debt to:
www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/download.html
@@KeithCooper Hello Keith, thank you for your detailed reply. I was just bidding on a TS lens on eBay, I missed out. Maybe it was meant to be. I was hoping to be able to stop focus stacking and shoot one shot front to back sharp landscapes. While I can shoot one shot personally its a compromise, I love razor sharp foreground, midground and want sharp background. It appears a TS lens isn't as useful for my full frame R5 Canon as I thought. I'll look at you attached link. Thanks again Keith.
If it's any interest, all my tilt/shift articles [and vids] are indexed at:
www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/tilt-and-shift-lens-articles-and-reviews/
I own 3 Canon tilt-shift lenses but almost never use the tilt feature. For my uses (to photograph architecture), tilt does not ever seem necessary, but I wonder if I'm missing opportunities to use the tilt feature more. Apart from photographing products, or just as a gimmick (toy-effect), what do you use tilt for Keith?
If I looked through the photos I've taken for my work in the last year, I'd find very few using tilt. Where I have done it's been to look along a wall/floor/ceiling and I've placed the plane of focus along that structure.
See the looking up a brick wall shot in my TS-E45 review (about half way through)
www.northlight-images.co.uk/ts-e45mm-f2-8-lens-review/
There is quite a lot about using tilt in that particular review
Hallo Keith, I would like to buy your book but on the website is written "We are temporarily not able to deliver orders to the EU" . I am in Germany. Is there any way to get your book?
Thanks. Peter.
I believe it's available via Amazon (and good bookshops!) The link is just to the actual publisher - check the ISBN?
@@KeithCooper Thank you for your fast answer. Amazon did the job… Real cool book with a lot of information and fun 🙂
Thanks - please leave a review if you feel like. It helps get it found
Thanks for this one! The composition change with an adapted lens is quite a problem though?
Not at all - just means you may have to reposition the camera slightly and re-do the tilt set-up process.
As I mention in the video, it is an iterative process and varies for each lens
For people that like confort and or use it a lot, It's also possible to purchase a TS lens-bracket that gives a rear tilt in place of the front tilt
@@jean-claudemuller3199 Which bracket is that? All the ones I have either don't allow tilt (rogeti TSE frame - for shift)) or clamp at the rear, meaning it's still the lens that moves with tilt.
BTW YT will drop comments with URLs in them, so if you could give some form of info that's not a link, others can see it?
@@jean-claudemuller3199 Can you point oiut one such?
how can I tilt the focus plane to 90 degree while still having the focus up close? Or how do I have to tilt the lense WHILE FOCUSING to not change the amount of tilt?
There are many videos about SHOWing the tilt effect, not I couldn't finde ONE that answers these questions.
Because the closer you work, the amount of tilt needed goes up
Actual real world lenses just don't tilt enough. That's what limits the tilt of the plane for close working.
It's why macro and tilt don't go together that well...
Basic optics - see my recent video about the two Merklinger books for a more rigorous [but mathematical] explanation?
@@KeithCooper Tbf, I knew that upclose and high angle tilt isn't realistic. (it was more like a "what would it need" kind of thought.) But for that too, I couldn't find any actual in depth explanation. Ether (most of the time) some real like chrash curses, like this video here, showing how to handle it, OR some drawn in Paint like visualisations of how the tilt itself can be thought of. But also not really explained WHY the plane tilts THAT way.
[tldr]
I mean, why does the focal plane NOT stay paralel to the lense? I mean you could think that the focus images is kinda 3D hologram-ish behind the lense and the focus is just where the sensor gets placed in this virtual field. Why does this "imagine some virtual lines, extending from your sensor and lense invinitely, and where rthey meat, thats whre the tilted plane mearts to and jada jada" work as it works. How does it actually physically work? how is the light itself "placed" behind the lense so that it gets tilted that way? etc.
That's where my second question about the focusing comes from. Why can't they built it to raise or lower the plane without effecting the tilt angle when focusing, just like when I pull or push it when not tilted?
(This question is not meant particularly for this video but is more a general thought.)
[/tldr]
But that aside, may I refrase my question.
What would it need, at casual tripot hight, to lay the focal plane on a lake? For that your focal plane would need to be tilted close to 90 degree.
And what if you want to tilt it beyond 90 degree?
@@KeithCooper And thanks for the quick reply. I will look into the mentioned video too ^^.
I tend to avoid the optical theory and any maths, which is what you need to explain it at a fundamental level.
There is no better way of killing off any video views from most photographers than introduce maths ;-) I much rather cover some aspects of this in written articles, where I can edit/update/refine them - my videos are mostly shot in one take, with no script.
Your question is a relatively easy one to answer, it depends on the focal length and tilt alone. Your height above the lake surface is the distance 'J' here [see the tilt tables]
www.northlight-images.co.uk/using-lens-tilt-on-your-digital-slr/
Changing the focus setting is what changes the plane - if you have a lens that focuses beyond infinity, then the plane will tilt beyond 90º
This from www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/tilt-and-shift-lens-articles-and-reviews/
My videos are generally intended as supplements to my written work and book ;-)
@@KeithCooper yeah, fair. Wanting to know it in detail but not having the focus span when just written, is kinda a me thing.
But thank's for the links. I will read them later ^^
I have a mft camera. And for my use case, I would need a 25mm lense. Or 12mm at best. but even 35 would be ok. Sadly I could only find 50mm or higher.