Sony TA-N7B: My new solid-state REFERENCE?
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Tube amplifiers have proved to be my first choice for any type of component. But in this case I have found a power amplifier that truly rivals all my favorite tube-based amps and surpasses all other solid-state amps I have tried on this channel, the Sony TA-N7B....ready to discover it?
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#poweramplifier #vintageamps #amplifier
The only tube I use lately is RUclips!
The TAN 7B a great sounding amplifier. As I recall, it only uses about 1/5 as many V FETS as the TA-N 8550, which uses 38 V FETS. The TA-N 8550 also has the fastest power meters ever. They truly show instantaneous accurate reading of the power output. The 5550 model and the integrated amp, I think it's called the 8650, are real stars. The 5550 is known for it's accuracy. There are many models they made in Japan that were never released outside of Japan. The problem with most of these V FET amps is that they used speaker terminals which had narrow holes and you have to forget about using your favorite thick speaker cables. Also on many of them, you have to push the speaker cable in the hole about 2 full inches for it to make contact with anything inside and make any sound. Many people have thrown away perfectly good V FET amps because the speaker wire wasn't pushed in far enough.. The circuit boards are seperate and veetical inside, instead of the conventional horizontal, on many of the models, including the top of the line 8000 series. If someone finds a V FET amp, if you take it to a shop for servicing, make sure they do not use a Variac, it will ruin the V FETS. Many shops do not know what they are doing with V FET amps. They are totally foreign to them.
V FETS make regular transistors sound bleached and lacking in tone colors and sweetness. You realize that other more conventional transistors have a thin electronic sound which is not as musica,l and shouldn't be there. Purity and sweetness are very special with V FET amps. The highs in particular are in a league of their own. Many of the V FET amps don't like to see low speaker impedences. Most of the problems with the diodes failing, and taking out the V FETS with them, were people playing low impedence speakers loudly. Since they don't have a huge soundstage, pampering them by using them in a smaller room with something like LS3/5A speakers is a good idea. Sheer naturalness on voice and tonal beauty galore everywhere.
Thanks for your interesting comment. I can absolutely support your claim in the vintage loudspeaker connectors, terrible and it is hard sometimes to get the connection right making you think that a channel is dead.
Hi Guido, I've got the original Rotel michi RHB10 and RHC10 power/ passive preamp combination. I had the power amp recapped and rewired it's my vintage reference, and I'll never sell it. I love it so much. A good amplifier circuit 30 years ago is still a good amplifier circuit today. We haven't really reinvented the wheel there, so some of those early gems are really quite surprising to listen to because they are just so good.👍🎧👌
Bravo!👏🏻
Same experience! The most musical and naturally detailed amp I’ve tried at home (JBL 4333B speakers - CJ PV9a preamp), but, in my room and my set up, very good 3D image too. Really, a rare pearl indeed!
Thank you. I really enjoy this episode!🎉
I’m sure You need also to check Nakamichi Stasis amplifers who has Nelson Pass circuit.
I have, and it sounds beautiful!
People knock Sony and Yamaha because they also sell lower end equipment for the non audiophile. They also sold some of the best equipment ever made. The Japanese companies kept the best stuff in Japan and in the US, we got leftovers. But about VFETs, if you are going to dive into the greatest sound ever, do the research, and don't wait to long. Every year there are less and less vfets still in existence. Nelson pass ate up a ton of them. In 5 years, prices will be higher than now. It's just supply and demand.
Many of these amp topologies used class A drivers, as you pointed out with class A/AB output biasing. The transfer characteristics of these v-fets should be compared to existing fets to get a dramatic graphic representation. Yes, once you’ve heard them, you cannot go back. 👍
I have a Solid State McIntosh MC-152 (autoformers) Power Amp, driven by a supercharged Shit Freya + with NOS Tubes. LOVE the sound. I would love to hear this vintage Sony, mostly because you are so excited about it. I have no understanding of the technology! 😀
Gan fets should also reportedly have a fantastic sound, sounding like tubes just with a more substantial bass. I haven't heard an amplifier myself yet, but they are slowly appearing on the market.😊
Hard to beat vintage
I have a Sony TA 4650 VFET amp restored. Its awesome. Its up their with my Yamaha B2 VFET amp.
Nice!
Hey, Guido. Another great vid. Nothing wrong with Sony. My transport, is a SONY and my DAC, an old Adcom DAC that I upgraded a lot of the parts in, likely still isn’t necessarily accepted, but it sounds pretty good. People need to look past the name and base their opinion on nothing but sound quality.
I’ve heard Nelson speak about SIT’s, and I’d love to hear one, but of the First Watt amps I’ve heard, none were SIT based. The SONY VFET’s have become somewhat of a thing of audio lore. Your “new” SONY amp seems beautiful, and the topology obviously still holds up today as a great piece of HiFi.
Thanks, Guido. ,
My reference for solid state amps are the super tiny SAC Igel 40 mono amps, combined with a Croft tube pre amp and a Otto Le Pacific phono stage. Love this combo on DeVore O/Baby speakers…
Sweet!
I agree very good amp, I have Yamaha b-2, but Sony is more accurate, if you want closer to tube sound get pure vfet, more coloured though but romantic sound, TA-8650 is top vfet but Ta-5650 is cheaper option, also TA-F7 integrated is 80% of TA-N7 and has Vu meters too :) has to be listened to for appreciation, great video thanks
I know but they are very very hard to find!
Hi Guido.
Sony made awesome crt's, cameras, and mp3 players for that matter, but I'm surprised about them making impressive hifi. Had a lot coming though, and heard a lot at other peoples places, in stores etc. All in different price levels, and also of different vintage. But I have never experienced anything impressive from Sony in the hifi department. Being that this one impresses you makes it therefore even more impressive.
In Denmark we have a saying; "Even a blind chicken can find a corn". I would very much like to listen to this particular corn, and for once be impressed.
Cool video Mate.
Stay awesome.
I agree, that is why I underlined that it was a Sony but in fact it is a vintage Sony.
The sony vfets are considered some of the best ss amps ever. Sony makes some high end stuff that we don't even know about. They kept the good stuff in Japan.
TA-N7 with TAE 88 is brilliant combo, but Yamaha B1, B2 are just as good
I own a rebuit b1, a sansui ba 1000 and a sony ta n7. They are all fantastic. The sansui sounds mostly like tubes. But wattage is 45w while the b1 is 150w. The sony and b2 are in the middle at 100w.
It'll be worth your time to audition s Yamaha B-2 👍
Hi Guido, I wanted to thank you for the wonderful music you have shared with us! I love the newfound Japanese Jazz from Three Blind Mice label etc In regards to the Sony amplifier, I am not readily convinced but I do trust your judgement in music and was surprised when you named your Ayon CD player so highly. I also have one but for Amplifiers I have been using Atma-Sphere 60 monos forever now! Nice thing is they use Triode Output Tubes that don't require matching specifically. They can be biased to match closely from side to side! Fully Balanced and pure class A! So when you commented saying the Sony was great etc. But didn't come too close to your Tube Amps I felt better! Keep up the great work you do! I enjoy watching you and finding great music! Problem is I got to pay the Piper! Larry in Colorado USA
For those who don't know, he's speaking the truth! Something about that v-fet sound, allows it to shine, even with bad speaker placement and scratchy pots.
This video is going to force me to get my Yamaha B-2 serviced so i can use it without worry.
My solid state reference are the seperates I bought in 1988. I know these so well I can reference anything to it. Especially since I bought the same speakers I had back then as well.
Looks solid 👌 good find 😊
Cool video, I was just thinking of building mine similar to SIT4. There are some project of class A SITs, like the 'Singing Bush' and the 'SissySIT'
is impossible to get better even if you pay 20k$ for new amps
Tube prices for my current Monos is ridiculous so I am using some chepo class D amos.
If you want a detailed but flat sound listed to class D amps.
It’s not flat, it’s flatter compared to tubes, that’s all.
Why did they stop manufacturing this amp? Also, why not. use it with a tube preamp?
Expensive to make VFETS. In todays money that amp would be $10k or more to purchase.
Very expensive and difficult to make, each v-fet must be selected for top results. Things that need a lot or research and development, resources and time!
Truly love the old Sony TA-N line! Get some genuine Library Music from Morricone, Niccolai or Umiliani & let it breathe freely
Getting qualified and competent service of any audio equipment is next to impossible. New equipment is “throw away when broke”. Old equipment, that could be fixed, is throw away because the original manufacturers largely will not service what they sold.
To save the planet, wouldn’t it be great if we moved from a throw-away mindset to a keep-it-forever mindset.
Sadly true!
These v fet amps need to be restored if they havnt been yet. One small issue and vfets fry out and they are unobtainable.
I recommend u try the very affordable B&K ex442 sonata series power amp . It has tube warm & sounds take depth n very tight control deep bass.
Reminds me of "brake my body, hold my bones."
2:15 This is for the audio high fidelity historians. Yes, if you are lucky to find one in good condition and have an engineer you trust assess its condition and replace any aged components that are out of specification, then good for you. If you don't mind worrying about one of the V-FETs dying every time you turn it on that is.
On the other hand, audiophiles worldwide could join forces and petition Sony to bring back V-FETs. I wonder what price they would charge today for an amplifier like this one if they did. My thinking is it would probably cost as much as the new Technics SP-10.
How about John Linsley Hood 1969 Single Ended Class A amplifier?
Hi Guido, which speakers are you using now?
Now I am using a pair of ALTEC 19 with quality crossovers.
Wow. Passed by accuphase quickly. Did something disappoint you with that amp?
no amp from accuphase can compare with sony ta n7 imho
I think it seems easier to find this amp unused inside its box and in a "perfect" condition (and so it will want service) than to find a technician who knows how to service it..
(I lost my marantz 94mk2 cd player because i couldn't find in my country a technician to fix it)
My best regards
Thank you
I had a Sansui amp au 919 which perplexed many techs.
Watching this on a Sony Xperia 1
Можно не продолжать😂
GaN or class a is the high tier of today's solid state , how does it compare.
Soon I will have an answer to that ;-) For what concerns Class A I have widely answered in the video.
I am confused. You seem to hold soundstage in a high regard, especially concerning direct from master reel to reel recordings that you purchase. Why are you so big on this amplifier if it's big weakness is it's soundstage? I looked it up for sale & it does seem very rare, especially in North America. Do you have some kind of model number list you could share of other companys that used this type of transistor, like Yamaha that you mention in the video?
I guess I wasn’t clear enough because several people are saying this. What I meant is that it has a very good soundstage but that reproduced from my reference tube amp, the Sanei 2a3 is just at another level. Plus I clear stated in the title that this is my solid-state reference amp, but my Sanei, the overall result is IMHO better but the Sony is right behind and actually it delivers a different taste that some times I prefer according to mood and type of music.
@@anadialog
From 19:33 in the video, you did NOT describe what most of us would refer to as "a very good soundstage", LOL!
Guido: "It can't compete...The Sony, it Loses DRAMATICALY...It's FLAT...the presentation is FLAT...there's NOT Air/Room/Space between instruments...It's NOT Wide".
Your statements are literally contradictory.
No surprise here. Sony has always been great
U should listen Sony str 6120
I listened the files you shared. They sound very clear, transparent and lively but I think it may start to become tiring over time and you may find yourself desiring for a little bit more laid back sound. Those kind of equipment catches you with clarity in the beginning but frustrates you in the long run. I hope this won’t happen to you.
I actually think that it is the opposite, the sound is a little laid back and in fact I have zero fatigue. I think the conversion to digital added that. Live it is very nice and supple. What you are describing is how modern gear is delivering hi-fi. Very annoying indeed.
The Sanyo a35 is also incredible if you can get your hands on one. So after 2500 euros it does not have a good soundstage? Not sure that’s a good thing.
I absolutely did not say that. First of all it’s a REFERENCE IMHO, I don’t say that often so it has an excellent soundstage BUT I am currently using extreme high-quality tube/transformer amplification by Takatsuki and tango and at that level solid-state cannot compete with tube’s soundstage (actually all the line is better but this amp by Sony comes darn close and in some cases it is even more convincing).
@@anadialog
That is NOT what you said or implied in the video, LOL. Go back and listen to yourself starting at 19:33. You said, "The Sony, it loses DRAMATICALLY! I mean, it's FLAT, the presentation is FLAT! ...It's NOT Sculpted...there's NOT Air/Room/Space between the instruments...it's NOT Wide..."
That does NOT describe an "excellent" soundstage from my point of view, regardless if it is SS or tubes!
Guido, as an amplifier designer in a previous life you showed nothing special that is still used in a good designed modern high end amplifier other than the use of the V-FET that in all honesty does very little to the sound. It sits there to give the transistor in the output stage a linear working environment as the Collector Emitter voltage is kept constant and I would like to challenge this design to replace the V-Fet with a normal linear power transistor and the difference would be very small. Every good power amplifier has a class A input stage running of a regulated power supply. Cascode voltage gain stages are very normal today as it makes for a linear transistor. Using a separate transformer for input stage and output stage is probably more important than the V-Fet. The cascode output topology makes for a very linear emitter follower stage at the cost of efficiency but at these power levels it is not a big deal. In my opinion (as I trust your subjective love for this amp) is not just the V-FET but the sum of good amplifier design with a Semiconductor that was available at that time but can be replaced by modern semiconductors having better characteristics than this V-FET. Just my 5 cents.
Thanks for sharing your point of view. Unfortunately, this is also why technology like V-FET disappeared and other modern designs fail completely to deliver a true quality reproduction: measurements. They are very important but they can’t guide us, in fact Nelson Pass in his First Watt as many others does not go by performance but by sound.
As stated in the video all modern high-end amps I have tested are behind this Sony. So there is something in your equation, which is that of many engineers and technicians, that just doesn’t work and I am in good company. Don’t trust only my word. Roam the web and you will see how many think this is the ultimate amp together with other v-fet amps. They absolutely do make a difference. Try and believe, don’t rely only on specs.
@@anadialog
Guido, TBF, you yourself admitted that this particular amplifier presents a very flat, non-expansive soundstage, yet you still wax poetic ("Ohhhhhh Babyyy!") over its amazing "Sound Quality". I find this very curious. And BEFORE you say that you didn't say that about the soundstage, go back and listen to yourself starting at 19:33!
Because, the fact that you say this amplifier's soundstage performance is just mediocre actually means that there is something fundamentally wrong with the amplifier. 😛 I'm not joking.
WHY?
Can you tell me WHAT specific properties of any 2-channel stereo audio signal are actually responsible for recreating an excellent, 3-dimensional soundstage and precise imaging???
I'd really like HiFi enthusiasts to really think about this, because as simple as it is (and it IS simple), 99% of so-called audiophiles can never explain WHY the imaging & soundstage performance of certain electronic HiFi components seem to have poor or excellent performance in this regard!
So, what actually differentiates various electronic HiFi equipment from being capable of providing excellent imaging and a 3-dimensional soundstage???
I bet that you and many others won't believe the simple and actual answer, and will think that there still MUST BE some other Magical, Mystical, Elusive reason that some equipment exhibits a better soundstage and imaging than others.
The Answer:
The imaging and soundstage performance of ANY 2-channel stereo audio signal and electronic component are dictated simply by the Amplitude & Phase Response (i.e. Frequency Response) being Perfectly Matched, or As Similar As Possible, between the Left and Right channels!
Voilà! THAT'S IT! Nothing more!
Please note that this also applies to the L vs. R in-room Frequency Response of your chosen Speakers AT Your Listening Position, and "Amplitude Response" is in reference to both the L vs. R Levels AND Frequency Response.
So, HOW can you verify this??? It's simple...
Have you ever noticed that even with the Absolute Best "High End" Systems from the source all the way to the loudspeakers, as soon as you begin to move out of the so-called "sweet spot" that is perfectly centered between the Left & Right speakers, or your position becomes too far above or below the vertical reference axis of the speakers (usually ear-level with the tweeters), the imaging and soundstage begin to deteriorate and collapse, until you are so far to one side that there is absolutely no discernable soundstage or imaging???
I'm sure you have, because you and everyone else will experience this nearly every day when you get up from your listening room's chair or couch and walk around the room or house to attend to some other task or interruption.
This collapse of the imaging & soundstage is due to the Left vs. Right Amplitude Response becoming "out of balance" when you move out of the "sweet spot".
You can also try the same experiment by simply adjusting the Left vs. Right "Balance" control on your preamp/amp/integrated amp/AVR while sitting in your central "sweet spot". The precise focus, imaging, and soundstage will deteriorate the more you adjust the Balance control to one side or the other. You can do this with headphones or IEMs as well.
Due to the variance in vacuum tubes and their subtle and unique harmonic distortion properties, it is even more difficult to match the left vs right signals. Though this can be mitigated by designing the amplifier to operate the vacuum tubes within their most linear range (voltage & current) and not try to push or extract too much power from them by overdriving them.
All of this has LONG BEEN KNOWN by audio engineers and the inventors of 2-channel stereo sound since the beginning, and it is not "rocket science"! Yet HiFi enthusiasts and audiophiles seem continually perplexed as to why some gear performs better in this regard than others, LOL.
So, THIS is why your Sony amp exhibits lackluster imaging and soundstage. While it might sound tonally pleasing, dynamic, and will drive your speakers to their SPL limits, it has some inherent issues. ;)
With today's technology, and the quality of even inexpensive electronic components (when properly chosen), as well as precise measurement equipment, it's a rudimentary exercise to design audio components that have perfectly matching L/R Amplitude and Phase Response. This is why so much of the inexpensive "Chi-Fi" gear on the market performs so well.
And, when any reviewer claims that the imaging & soundstage performance of any particular piece of gear they are reviewing is mediocre/bad/horrible, it is at least as likely due to another component in their signal chain, but more likely the L vs R imbalance in the Amplitude & Phase Response of their SPEAKERS At Their Listening Position due to non-symmetrical placement of the speakers in their room and/or variances in the ACOUSTIC properties of the room at the left and right speaker positions which cause a delta in the L vs. R response at the listening position.
Cheers.
Is the model spoken about named anywhere in this video?
Just a few times
Sony TA-N7
Clearly at the start!!
How much is it?
Watch the video! ;-)
Solo tu mi fai imparare l' inglese ben,per il resto e' tutto Ok,sono un appassionato di musica, principalmente jazz
Yamaha B2 is much heavier.
Not really, only 5kg more. Maybe you were thinking of the B1. In any case, not necessarily an index of quality, bigger transformers or a heavier chassis. Other aspects make these babies great.
He is just blabbering. FET transistors are dark sounding. That is why it never replaced the BJTs in a class AB amplifiers.
These are not normal FET transistors. Which V-FET or SIT amplifiers have you tested?