This was such a good demonstration. Rebuke is definitely going to be a PvP breaking prayer. Maybe lower the recoil% if used in PvP situations. EDIT TO ADD: glad you mentioned it will be a content machine (although gamebreaking). If it does make it into the game, I can't wait to watch Gompie anti-rush 500 billion
@@limey9182shit I’m fine with that but don’t make my character look shitty again & all Armor, weapons and make me start WOW “wtf I logged on runescape not wow” 😂
I think they could do three different approaches to try and balance it. 1) Like you said, remove protect item or make it conflict just with the recoil prayer so you are always risking. 2)Reduce recoil down to 25% (or maybe 20%) in PVP scenarios or 3) Put a damage cap on vengeance when combined with this prayer.
YEA LOOKS LIKE THINGS ARE JUST GETTING MORE AND MORE MAXED! NEXT THING U KNOW WE WILL HAVE FLYING BOOTS AND LIGHTSABERS! MUCH LOVE FROM YA BOY MR.VIRAL! FROM SAGINAW MICHIGAN 989!
They could easily just change it to like 10% in pvp like they do with protection prayers. Hopefully they do this because it seems like a really cool prayer to use in pvm
Man I've been waiting for you to finally make a video on this. The Ruinous Powers we have now are basically the result of PvMer + Reddit feedback. The PvP community needs people like you to speak up about things that are straight up terrible for PvP. In the last beta, Intensify used to be an Overhead prayer (called "Gambit") that you could use with the other offensive prayers, and offered 8% additional accuracy to all styles. I think I liked that version a lot more. In PvP, it makes you choose between overhead protection, Smite, and extra accuracy. Apparently they changed it because PvMers didn't want to be "forced" to flick it on to maximize DPS ...
Absolutely. I think they should just nerf protect item for this book. For example you should have at least a certain % of your prayer left to be able to have it on, which would make smiting more powerful.
what are you even talking about you fool. this is a pvp game more than anything loool. why do you think they made osrs? cuz u couldn’t pk on eoc. pvp is live and well and always will be nerd
Anything game breaking for certain aspects of the game Rebuke for example, should be un-usable inside pvp. It makes pvm more intresting for sure but for pvp it seems way too problematic.
That poison one. Couldn't you like... Get dragon arrows p++ and spec with a dark bow with them. If you max with a darkbow, a p++ poison tick would hit at the same time, into a thrown axe or something with it. Could be potentially a good pking prayer.
I think the fact that it’s an overhead mitigates some of what you’re taking issue with. Don’t spec someone with the mirror above their head, or if you do, expect the recoil + veng damage to be 50% more. Imo this will make veng fights more interesting. If people don’t want to fight against it, just stipulate no overheads like we always have. E.g., no smite.
@@cosmetica698 you obviously dont and never have pked if you dont think that. pking is about honour first and foremost thats why the style where u run under eachother and use all protection prayers is literally called NH (no honour) pking. before u could do 130 damage in 1 tick from an array of comboes it was agreed upon people only ate at a certain hp so kills actually happened... so many more examples i could give. whats annoying is osrs players who only pvm always have some shit to say about pking when their only experience is getting shit on when they were trying to do something in the wilderness lmao
The mathematical formula for the new vengeance is y=0.75x(1.5), where x is what you hit the opponent. so keep this formula in mind when pking in the near future.
I think Rebuke is just a little problematic, but I don't think it's too bad. Make sure it's disabled in PvP worlds and Bounty Hunter (No overheads). It gives PvMers in the wild a bit more chance agains PvPers.
Not a terrible suggestion, but, the issue is on non-PvP worlds (e.g. revs) you get a bunch of PvP players who are on bait accounts. These are accounts that look like PvMers, and generally they are grinding PvM style getting loot. But, the main purpose is to carry anti-pk gear and surprise spec out pkers. It's completely ubiquitous and to the point where new pkers basically don't exist, because the risk to reward ratio for a pker is completely skewed against the risk reward ratio for an anti-pker. Anti-pking would become king, and wilderness pking against pvmers would come to a screeching halt.
@@CecilSunkure yeah that's also a fair point. Like Kevin shows in the video, you basicly need a veng and a voidwaker hit. So I get the concerns of anti-pking. On the other hand, if I'm doing a wildi slayer task, cause I want to unlock Dagon Hai (e.g.), I don't want those pkers to bother me, so I don't pity any pkers that get anti-d. If they wanna kill players, they have special words for it. But if it's healthy for the game, I'm not sure it is, but I also don't know if it will hurt the game. We'll have to wait and see if they actually make it to the game.
Honestly a 10 damage increase over 10 years is incredibly slow power creep for any game. HP being capped at 99 causes the issue.... Now I don't want them to change that, but I also want them to keep adding new content... So idk what the solution is.
They should make it smite you by 50% of the damage that you reflect. You AGS me an 80, I reflect 40 damage (plus venge), I lose 20 prayer points plus whatever you smite me (33% with new smite), so now I am down almost 60 prayer points. If I kill you then great, if I die it's basically guaranteed I lose my plus one item. High risk high reward.
IDK man, If I can just venge and have a ring of suffering and like any spec weapon or something I might go do some wilderness content if I feel safe pvm-ing
15 or 20-25% probably wouldn’t be too bad but of course Jagex trying to get things removed before they are even released by making them polled over powered, lovely
Okay so you hit a 90 with the extreme best gear, and the high risk prayer book that also makes you take 10% more damage. So to squeeze out the new max hit, you got to increase the max hit of others even more. like sure, you might be able to get that max hit and just 100->0 someone. And you might gain a few million gp every time. But you are risking hundreds of millions of gp with this gear. And you are increasing the risk of being deleted by taking 10% more damage any time you pray wrong. You are also not getting defense bonuses from the new non-overhead prayers. The defense bonuses you used to get from piety etc. These are glass cannon prayers. However, the new reflect damage prayer? It needs a PvP specific nerf to keep it from being completely insane. From 50% increase, it should go down to 25% at most, or even 10%. It would still increase the skill ceiling for vengeance stacks, but not completely break the game.
Maybe. I think if it's more complicated, it will at least be more entertaining to watch, so there's still a plus for lower skilled players. Also improving at a game is what it's about and is the funnest.
"Decimate" Cool word nobody ever uses correctly. It means to remove 10% of something. "I decimated his army" means you killed 10% of his army. It doesn't mean you annihilated him. It means quite the opposite. It should/could be the name of a baby level attack that deals 10% of their HP.
One option could have been to add a time frame/requirement for the Rebuke. Aka it needing to be on for a certain amount of time for it to have an effect or that it would have a "cooldown" between uses. But alas, let's scrap everything and delay DT 2... again.
This prayer seems pretty busted but this also does mean that you have a meta shifting prayer here. Instead of the game boiling down to "dump spec off pray", if someone throws up that deflect prayer now there is a mind game going on. You might consider wanting to bait out the venge first, take whatever you do from hitting with a normal attack THEN speccing, since venge does have a 30s CD. So you are absolutely correct, it CAN stack you out if you get the read wrong. HOWEVER, if you miss that timing you have a 30s window to go ham on that person. Also fun thought: Dh in the wildy could unironically be a thing here with an amulet of the damned giving ANOTHER source of recoil. Venge + DH + Recoil/Suffering + rolling the 25% chance to deflect the damage you took making it even easier to get stacked out by a bad spec timing lol. and that isnt considering that if you didnt kill the DH player they are now a low hp DH and we know where that goes lmao.
I feel like there's counterplay involved and skill because it shows you when the opponent activates rebuke. dont spec if they have rebuke shown above their head and voila
"Omg he's doing nothing!!!!" Literally click a special attack bar thinking they're doing something. 90% of your kills is basically double specing Korasi. If there's an Offensive option to deplete you from 121 to 0 in a matter of seconds, there should be Defensive options to deplete you from 121 to 0 in a matter of seconds. Recoil is how you find that balance. Don't want stacked out for your HP from recoils? Don't use high damage weapons and actually earn your kills with skill instead of those cheap ass specs. If you're mad about Rebuke, you should be mad about Intensify. 40% increase to accuracy is by FAR a bigger problem than Rebuke.
I'm pretty sure the problem is that Vengeance is programmed as recoil damage. I do not think that was intended Vengeance is vengeance and recoil is recoil. But spaghetti code says vengeance works like recoil damage. Those vows that reduce the combat stats is completely unnecessary. Inventory management with tribridding is already tough... But it may be a step in the right direction to lower the volatility of the power that this presents. So players wont be hitting soo high all the time. Kind of evens out when you consider the no defence buff
if osrs wants to go in this direction tbh i dont see a huge issue with it, but i dont see how its possible unless they uncap the skills from 99. there's only so much stuff u can stuff in a box sized 1-99.
All the account has to do is be on the prayer book and cast vengeance... And also give up an overhead prayer that would actually negate 50% of the damage instead... and it can only be done once every 30 seconds... And also means they get no defence from their prayers... And you can pop it with a god damn iron dart if you want to. If you see someone with rebuke up, how about you just don't spec? They are standing there without an overhead, use it as an option to work them with lower damage non-specials, which they are going to always be taking full damage from with minimal risk to yourself. Worried it will impact GE/Edge PvP? Don't fight them. That's already what happens with protection prayer users there, so why not rebuke users too? If you're worried about it's ability to anti-rush then that's already pretty comical, but you still have the option of D clawing instead of going with an AGS.
maybe bad take ; i like the tension of trying to not spec into a veng more than barrage-walk-under as play. (they aren't mutually exclusive) My only problem with it, is the near zero risk of carrying the venge-rebuke option. Fully agree on removing protect item from it, because 'ruinous power' being a safe retaliation is a bad feel. Let vindication give a dps buff if you fall under 10%, and I'll be happy. Give me ways to ruin myself for huge gains.
NAH CHAD MIRROR. i love this ability especially in defense of rushers in pvp making them think twice as well as for clans who world hop onto unsuspecting wilderness caves runners. spamming teleblock or roots/freezes as they swap through every attack style in the game. instead of trying to match their comb style with a overhead prayer you insert CHAD MIRROR
Completely agree on that prayer. Honestly I don't think the new pray book is necessary for the game at all, in terms of keeping content going. Just as voidwaker wasn't necessary. They are content added that only ruins the integrity of PVP. Which will eventually lead to them killing pvp... again...
also, soul split i believe healed ever time you did damage, iirc, and drained prayer that same speed. so that prayer is quite a bit weaker than SS was, so im happy with that tbh. i liked SS a lot when i was younger tbh but i dont think it would be good to bring back in full power
Its not stronger than ss in pvp lmao u have to defeat opponants to heal. At which point its kinda useless cuz u just gonna go bank n heal after a kill anyway
I had soul split on release and have had it since in rs3. I also play old school None of what you've said matters when reflect + vegence + special attack with a good weapon like claws, korasi, ags is next to a 100% kill. healing in a fight doesn't matter in pvp because 95% of fights are not determined by who is out of food it's determined by K.Oing someone with a special attack or veng combo. Having losts of healing or food doesn't matter that much when people will just run away/teleport when they are out. Death matches are rare and pointless since alot of people wouldn't honor it anyway.
@@thelegendarytrim8514 Healing from soul split has next to no effect on your damage or your k.o potential, which is the most important thing in a fight yes it would make it easier to win a death match however, overhead prayers like protect from meleee would help even more. If you use soul split you can't use protect from melee. If someone was to use soul split and you don't have it you would just put on your protection prayers to even the odds.
It's honestly ridiculous, I came back to pking and kept dying... then i realized camping the hp i used to back in the early 2010s wasn't reasonable anymore. Literally every fight i have now my opponent camps 85ish hp because everything is a prod weapon. Gone are the days of clean KO's... everything has to be a veng stack now. You literally have to get RNG and a veng to KO.
This is why I stopped playing the game. I used to be super into edge pking where it used to be respectful to at least sit at an hp that could be co-ed with combo's like msb -> spec wep if the enemy was clean enough in the combo and hit the right rng and you somehow didnt get to eat quick enough. Now thats considered being chanced and that's looked down upon... You'd get sick fights where people who were better at eating or venge stacking would still win most fights. People would often prioritise dmg over eating to try smite or stack someone out. Basically, people pk-ed like skill specs still does today. Risk it cos its fun or you might get the kill because you risked. He gets memed on cos he dies, but that to me was the most fun pking.
@@coolzhowful that’s another thing… they need to nerf using msb in melee gear… they talked about it before and did nothing about it. I’m tired of getting target after target with msb to AGS or Voidwaker. They break your vengs and tick the spec with the msb. Half the time my D scim can’t even out dps an msb when they’re using fighter torso, platelets and neitz helm w/ fire cape. Wtf is that? So dumb.
It seems like it isn’t taking into account the armor at all? I think that the recoil damage should at least take into account the recoiler’s accuracy and the specer’s armor so you cant just 0 risk smite someone in full torv
I would assume this needs to stay to prevent rushers. If it were to be utilized in a pvp aspect its a saving grace and used professionally otherwise it'll prevent getting rushed. 😊
it should have some drawbacks like it cant bring the enemy below 1 hp,makes you unable to attack for 5 sec and drain all your prayer when you reflect with it only way to make it fair but that would be a long description to write for a prayer i suppose
I think if rebuke makes it into the game it's just going to become the 2023 version of soulsplit in that people will just handshake and agree to not use it in PvP or they wont get fights
They should make it so it only can be activated before the hit for one hit. That way the player who puts the prayer up needs to actually time it and do a switch. And it should have a timer to cool down, like 100 ticks or something.
I was thinking that it removes the bonus damage from you in prayer points. But it still means you could risk essentially nothing and be killing people with HUGE risk
that's fucking hilarious, hope they keep it. I wanna look like I just bought noted bones to chaos altar, and hope someone specs me, while I risk legitimately nothing.
Could just literally make that prayer only work on PvM encounters honestly. Feel like that was going to be the main use (pvming) for such a thing, more chip damage and what not. Absolutely busted in PvP. At most make it like +50% recoil damage in PvM and maybe +5% in PvP or something In terms of actual feedback on the rest of the prayers: I was really hoping for some game changing stuff that makes you want to pick and use BOTH prayer books for very different scenarios. Like solomission said, a lot of it just feels like upgrades on the old book with a few new things. Some examples of what I mean is let's say item protection. Instead of just being a +1 item protect like the normal book, this one now instead makes you keep your 2nd most valuable item, rather than the most. Higher risk vs reward for using the prayer book. Or if looking at some pvm things; how about prayers that give different boosts depending on whether the player is standing still, walking or running? Combining it with the ingame movements to create more dynamic gameplay. I ain't saying those 2 ideas are the best prayer ideas ever, just some examples of what I meant with more game changing things. Oh maybe you wouldn't use that over the normal prayer book at a boss where you stand still a lot, but it'd be amazing at TOA where you're constantly moving. More things like that would be great in my eyes
Jagex are limited by the engine. Certain things they cannot do. That's the whole reason they did the evolution of combat update back in the day. To upgrade the engine so they can do more things.
The new prayers will require skill. However, the style of pking will change. As it is possible to get killed from max hp if ur opponent is venged, you have to trick your opponent at times, when they will try to time the venge. Eg. u pull out spec wep when opponent is low hp, they will try to time it and you have to break it without specing. That now leads to a 30 second window for you to get the spec off, while they don’t have venge. It’s going to be more like a game of chess. Interesting.
The poison damage immediately prayer would be broken in pvp for stuff like the dragon dagger special attack wouldnt it? A guarenteed 6+ damage added to the dagger is kinda crazy, and theres the new bh abyssal dagger.
even with serp helm on the chance is only 50%, and without serp helm it's 25% and it only has a chance on successful hits, so it's really not as much guaranteed damage as you'd think
Every max hit you gain is .5 damage gained per hit. So with 4 max hits gained you should average 2 more damage on every single hit just for those who don’t know
Honestly osrs is creeping into rs3 more and more, torva is here, virtus is coming? pernix not far away, all these op raid items changed alot of what i used to love about osrs.
Rebuke is a bad prayer but if you just remove protect item again like the previous interactions of these prayers. No one will use them outside of high risk worlds.
Rebuke and intensify are both horrifically bad. Gambit was a perfect prayer, and rebuke needs to be removed or reworked entirely. Gambit was PERFECT before, an overhead prayer that sacrificed protection prayers for the benefit of slightly increased DPS. Absolutely perfect. Intensify is basically just a better version of vaporize, which doesn’t make any sense.
@@cheezyboy2511 yea true the only reason I can think to use it is with shadow since the new mage prayer only gives 2 max hits, but it’s already pretty accurate and I’d have to dps calc to see if it’s even worth it.
@@advente_ the fact that anyone would consider using it over the intended combat styles prayer for DPS makes me sick. It needs to be additional, 8% accuracy as an overhead was beautiful.
I like the analytical content, nice to see how some of this stuff affects pvp
LOL were original Old rune scape (
i wonder how hard you will get hit by Venge+Recoil+ Full Dharok with the Amulet of the Damned, which has a 25% chance to recoil 15% of the damage back
I’m going to find out lol 😊
If I did the math right if a player hits a 90 in full max, against someone using all of that the recoil effect would do around 136 damage
At least a 7
Like 70
The recoil alone from DH would be (Hit x .15) x 1.5.. Then add whatever the damage would be from the venge and recoil.
This was such a good demonstration. Rebuke is definitely going to be a PvP breaking prayer. Maybe lower the recoil% if used in PvP situations.
EDIT TO ADD: glad you mentioned it will be a content machine (although gamebreaking). If it does make it into the game, I can't wait to watch Gompie anti-rush 500 billion
i hope the new prayers get added but no rebuke or make rebuke less powerful
Can’t wait for older school rs in a couple years when this update takes the power creep too far.
power creep already through the roof this is no longer 2007 scape this is a private server
They're already taking it too far
would play the hell out of vanilla osrs
osrs was never made because of power creep it was made because of eoc
@@limey9182shit I’m fine with that but don’t make my character look shitty again & all Armor, weapons and make me start WOW “wtf I logged on runescape not wow” 😂
I could see Rebuke/Veng/Ring of Suffering being a new meta while sacrificing bones in the wildy if this stays this way
Honestly, good.
I think they could do three different approaches to try and balance it. 1) Like you said, remove protect item or make it conflict just with the recoil prayer so you are always risking. 2)Reduce recoil down to 25% (or maybe 20%) in PVP scenarios or 3) Put a damage cap on vengeance when combined with this prayer.
Good work Kev! Well done exposing this madness, hopefully jagex think about it realisticly, something like this would definitely break the game 😂😂
I might actually win some PvP encounters with that prayer. Thats how you know its busted.
Lol same
xD
YEA LOOKS LIKE THINGS ARE JUST GETTING MORE AND MORE MAXED! NEXT THING U KNOW WE WILL HAVE FLYING BOOTS AND LIGHTSABERS! MUCH LOVE FROM YA BOY MR.VIRAL! FROM SAGINAW MICHIGAN 989!
In the first iteration the recoil pray did not work on players so i would hope if it gets added that restriction is coming back.
They could easily just change it to like 10% in pvp like they do with protection prayers. Hopefully they do this because it seems like a really cool prayer to use in pvm
Man I've been waiting for you to finally make a video on this. The Ruinous Powers we have now are basically the result of PvMer + Reddit feedback. The PvP community needs people like you to speak up about things that are straight up terrible for PvP.
In the last beta, Intensify used to be an Overhead prayer (called "Gambit") that you could use with the other offensive prayers, and offered 8% additional accuracy to all styles. I think I liked that version a lot more. In PvP, it makes you choose between overhead protection, Smite, and extra accuracy. Apparently they changed it because PvMers didn't want to be "forced" to flick it on to maximize DPS ...
I think removing the protect item would also attract more people to pk in rag gear
Absolutely. I think they should just nerf protect item for this book. For example you should have at least a certain % of your prayer left to be able to have it on, which would make smiting more powerful.
What no it just means you can rag with an AGS instead of a dds
Finally, solo pvp meets the same fate clanning did. This is a PvE game first and foremost lads
what are you even talking about you fool. this is a pvp game more than anything loool. why do you think they made osrs? cuz u couldn’t pk on eoc. pvp is live and well and always will be nerd
Maybe change that to: veng and recoil stay the same but inflects 20-30% of that damage into prayer smite
Anything game breaking for certain aspects of the game Rebuke for example, should be un-usable inside pvp. It makes pvm more intresting for sure but for pvp it seems way too problematic.
That poison one. Couldn't you like... Get dragon arrows p++ and spec with a dark bow with them. If you max with a darkbow, a p++ poison tick would hit at the same time, into a thrown axe or something with it. Could be potentially a good pking prayer.
I like the commentary/opinions tbh, keep it up.
I think the fact that it’s an overhead mitigates some of what you’re taking issue with.
Don’t spec someone with the mirror above their head, or if you do, expect the recoil + veng damage to be 50% more.
Imo this will make veng fights more interesting. If people don’t want to fight against it, just stipulate no overheads like we always have. E.g., no smite.
yeah that will definitely work (it wont)
Limit the effict of this prayer for ring of recoil only
@@cosmetica698 pvp has always been about following rules unwritten rules so if the meta becomes no using over heads people will do it
@@coolzhowful no it has not lmao
@@cosmetica698 you obviously dont and never have pked if you dont think that. pking is about honour first and foremost thats why the style where u run under eachother and use all protection prayers is literally called NH (no honour) pking. before u could do 130 damage in 1 tick from an array of comboes it was agreed upon people only ate at a certain hp so kills actually happened... so many more examples i could give. whats annoying is osrs players who only pvm always have some shit to say about pking when their only experience is getting shit on when they were trying to do something in the wilderness lmao
3:20 They're just staring.... Menacingly!
So if you have max gear and they have the new pray magic on you could hit 99 in one ags spec?
The mathematical formula for the new vengeance is y=0.75x(1.5), where x is what you hit the opponent. so keep this formula in mind when pking in the near future.
you can just.. y=1.125x
Make it 50% vs monsters but 25% vs players
Am I the only who remembers being able to hit 99s at the duel arena?
Recoil becoming stronger could shift the "spec meta" more towards Claws or Abby Dagger.
100%
Thanks for the video and beta testing it for all of us .
It's really simple for Rebuke, have it up over head for 2-3 seconds before it takes effect. Add that onto the effect and your fear is over.
I think Rebuke is just a little problematic, but I don't think it's too bad.
Make sure it's disabled in PvP worlds and Bounty Hunter (No overheads).
It gives PvMers in the wild a bit more chance agains PvPers.
Not a terrible suggestion, but, the issue is on non-PvP worlds (e.g. revs) you get a bunch of PvP players who are on bait accounts. These are accounts that look like PvMers, and generally they are grinding PvM style getting loot. But, the main purpose is to carry anti-pk gear and surprise spec out pkers. It's completely ubiquitous and to the point where new pkers basically don't exist, because the risk to reward ratio for a pker is completely skewed against the risk reward ratio for an anti-pker. Anti-pking would become king, and wilderness pking against pvmers would come to a screeching halt.
@@CecilSunkure yeah that's also a fair point. Like Kevin shows in the video, you basicly need a veng and a voidwaker hit. So I get the concerns of anti-pking.
On the other hand, if I'm doing a wildi slayer task, cause I want to unlock Dagon Hai (e.g.), I don't want those pkers to bother me, so I don't pity any pkers that get anti-d. If they wanna kill players, they have special words for it.
But if it's healthy for the game, I'm not sure it is, but I also don't know if it will hurt the game. We'll have to wait and see if they actually make it to the game.
Thank you for bringing awareness
Honestly a 10 damage increase over 10 years is incredibly slow power creep for any game. HP being capped at 99 causes the issue.... Now I don't want them to change that, but I also want them to keep adding new content... So idk what the solution is.
what if new prayers didnt have protect item?
u can hit higher but u also have to risk
Insta fix
I see the rebuke prayer as an anti rushing mechanic, people will probably flick it off when they get a fight
It is definitely something that could be problematic. I hope it is balanced carefully
I think its fine. Its true spec counterplay. So many people right now just blind speccing with voidwaker...
@@doublephisted8631 it’s like everything tho not just spec that’s the problem my recoil is gonna hit 8’s
thats why they dont get kills.
I dont even know why they would be adding a new prayer book tbh… gear and weapons are op enough with the current prayer book
They should make it smite you by 50% of the damage that you reflect.
You AGS me an 80, I reflect 40 damage (plus venge), I lose 20 prayer points plus whatever you smite me (33% with new smite), so now I am down almost 60 prayer points.
If I kill you then great, if I die it's basically guaranteed I lose my plus one item.
High risk high reward.
I wonder if they'll powercreep food items to compensate or make armour give +hp like in RS3
IDK man, If I can just venge and have a ring of suffering and like any spec weapon or something I might go do some wilderness content if I feel safe pvm-ing
15 or 20-25% probably wouldn’t be too bad but of course Jagex trying to get things removed before they are even released by making them polled over powered, lovely
rebuke was designed to be used as a counter to pvp rushers because so many people were complaining about how unfair it is.
The way people safe, this might make pking fun again
I believe they’ll have to add the RS3 HP boost from bonfires (probably added through Forestry) in order for PvP to survive
Okay so you hit a 90 with the extreme best gear, and the high risk prayer book that also makes you take 10% more damage. So to squeeze out the new max hit, you got to increase the max hit of others even more.
like sure, you might be able to get that max hit and just 100->0 someone. And you might gain a few million gp every time. But you are risking hundreds of millions of gp with this gear. And you are increasing the risk of being deleted by taking 10% more damage any time you pray wrong. You are also not getting defense bonuses from the new non-overhead prayers. The defense bonuses you used to get from piety etc. These are glass cannon prayers.
However, the new reflect damage prayer? It needs a PvP specific nerf to keep it from being completely insane. From 50% increase, it should go down to 25% at most, or even 10%. It would still increase the skill ceiling for vengeance stacks, but not completely break the game.
Rip - old school
Rs4 here we come
Think putting more emphasis on veng timing will give pvp a much needed skil-gap boost
skill gap boosts are good for high end players, and bad for the 90% of casual players. It just ends up killing pvp unfortunately..
Maybe. I think if it's more complicated, it will at least be more entertaining to watch, so there's still a plus for lower skilled players. Also improving at a game is what it's about and is the funnest.
"If you attack me, youll die"
Nonsense, you have no gear
"No, but you do"
State of pvp is every fight is currently a rush fight to who can korasi a 78 first… adding this will just mean they can 1 hit you from a higher up
Just make the recoil damage melee magic or ranged, instead of typeless. Protection prayers can nerf the damage.
in the famous words of Peter Parker, "Gonna cry?"
Like the idea of rebuke canceling out the protect item prayer
"Decimate"
Cool word nobody ever uses correctly. It means to remove 10% of something. "I decimated his army" means you killed 10% of his army. It doesn't mean you annihilated him. It means quite the opposite.
It should/could be the name of a baby level attack that deals 10% of their HP.
Rebuke could have some hufe effects in pvm methods for unique accs too
One option could have been to add a time frame/requirement for the Rebuke. Aka it needing to be on for a certain amount of time for it to have an effect or that it would have a "cooldown" between uses.
But alas, let's scrap everything and delay DT 2... again.
This prayer seems pretty busted but this also does mean that you have a meta shifting prayer here. Instead of the game boiling down to "dump spec off pray", if someone throws up that deflect prayer now there is a mind game going on. You might consider wanting to bait out the venge first, take whatever you do from hitting with a normal attack THEN speccing, since venge does have a 30s CD. So you are absolutely correct, it CAN stack you out if you get the read wrong. HOWEVER, if you miss that timing you have a 30s window to go ham on that person.
Also fun thought: Dh in the wildy could unironically be a thing here with an amulet of the damned giving ANOTHER source of recoil. Venge + DH + Recoil/Suffering + rolling the 25% chance to deflect the damage you took making it even easier to get stacked out by a bad spec timing lol. and that isnt considering that if you didnt kill the DH player they are now a low hp DH and we know where that goes lmao.
The pride event has been the only working update in recent memory
I feel like there's counterplay involved and skill because it shows you when the opponent activates rebuke. dont spec if they have rebuke shown above their head and voila
yo dude please put this on ur main channel itll get good attention that is well needed
"Omg he's doing nothing!!!!"
Literally click a special attack bar thinking they're doing something.
90% of your kills is basically double specing Korasi. If there's an Offensive option to deplete you from 121 to 0 in a matter of seconds, there should be Defensive options to deplete you from 121 to 0 in a matter of seconds. Recoil is how you find that balance.
Don't want stacked out for your HP from recoils? Don't use high damage weapons and actually earn your kills with skill instead of those cheap ass specs.
If you're mad about Rebuke, you should be mad about Intensify. 40% increase to accuracy is by FAR a bigger problem than Rebuke.
Good Catch Mr. Kev, easy fix would just be to disable rebuke in PvP
I'm pretty sure the problem is that Vengeance is programmed as recoil damage. I do not think that was intended Vengeance is vengeance and recoil is recoil. But spaghetti code says vengeance works like recoil damage.
Those vows that reduce the combat stats is completely unnecessary. Inventory management with tribridding is already tough... But it may be a step in the right direction to lower the volatility of the power that this presents. So players wont be hitting soo high all the time. Kind of evens out when you consider the no defence buff
if osrs wants to go in this direction tbh i dont see a huge issue with it, but i dont see how its possible unless they uncap the skills from 99. there's only so much stuff u can stuff in a box sized 1-99.
I dunno in nearly ten years max hit has increased by ten, I don’t see that as a huge problem.
Isn't there a dragon weapon spec that turns off prayer? The d scmmy maybe? Who knows what new meta stuff will come from this
that recoil prayer needs to either be specifically for rings of recoil, or removed. added damage to venge is stupid.
All the account has to do is be on the prayer book and cast vengeance... And also give up an overhead prayer that would actually negate 50% of the damage instead... and it can only be done once every 30 seconds... And also means they get no defence from their prayers... And you can pop it with a god damn iron dart if you want to.
If you see someone with rebuke up, how about you just don't spec? They are standing there without an overhead, use it as an option to work them with lower damage non-specials, which they are going to always be taking full damage from with minimal risk to yourself.
Worried it will impact GE/Edge PvP? Don't fight them. That's already what happens with protection prayer users there, so why not rebuke users too?
If you're worried about it's ability to anti-rush then that's already pretty comical, but you still have the option of D clawing instead of going with an AGS.
maybe bad take ; i like the tension of trying to not spec into a veng more than barrage-walk-under as play. (they aren't mutually exclusive)
My only problem with it, is the near zero risk of carrying the venge-rebuke option. Fully agree on removing protect item from it, because 'ruinous power' being a safe retaliation is a bad feel.
Let vindication give a dps buff if you fall under 10%, and I'll be happy. Give me ways to ruin myself for huge gains.
These prayers will not be released, Jagex said they will not continue forward
wah wah new stuff hit hard
NAH CHAD MIRROR. i love this ability especially in defense of rushers in pvp making them think twice as well as for clans who world hop onto unsuspecting wilderness caves runners. spamming teleblock or roots/freezes as they swap through every attack style in the game. instead of trying to match their comb style with a overhead prayer you insert CHAD MIRROR
This game just looks like a private server now I swear. I haven't been able to recognize it in years lol.
No way is a game evolving, let's just all play rs classic
Completely agree on that prayer. Honestly I don't think the new pray book is necessary for the game at all, in terms of keeping content going. Just as voidwaker wasn't necessary. They are content added that only ruins the integrity of PVP. Which will eventually lead to them killing pvp... again...
also, soul split i believe healed ever time you did damage, iirc, and drained prayer that same speed. so that prayer is quite a bit weaker than SS was, so im happy with that tbh. i liked SS a lot when i was younger tbh but i dont think it would be good to bring back in full power
For PvP specifically this is way stronger than soul split.
For pcm ss is better
Its not stronger than ss in pvp lmao u have to defeat opponants to heal. At which point its kinda useless cuz u just gonna go bank n heal after a kill anyway
I had soul split on release and have had it since in rs3. I also play old school
None of what you've said matters when reflect + vegence + special attack with a good weapon like claws, korasi, ags is next to a 100% kill.
healing in a fight doesn't matter in pvp because 95% of fights are not determined by who is out of food it's determined by K.Oing someone with a special attack or veng combo.
Having losts of healing or food doesn't matter that much when people will just run away/teleport when they are out.
Death matches are rare and pointless since alot of people wouldn't honor it anyway.
@@thelegendarytrim8514 Healing from soul split has next to no effect on your damage or your k.o potential, which is the most important thing in a fight yes it would make it easier to win a death match however, overhead prayers like protect from meleee would help even more.
If you use soul split you can't use protect from melee. If someone was to use soul split and you don't have it you would just put on your protection prayers to even the odds.
It's honestly ridiculous, I came back to pking and kept dying... then i realized camping the hp i used to back in the early 2010s wasn't reasonable anymore. Literally every fight i have now my opponent camps 85ish hp because everything is a prod weapon. Gone are the days of clean KO's... everything has to be a veng stack now. You literally have to get RNG and a veng to KO.
So true. I always feel like I’m safing
This is why I stopped playing the game. I used to be super into edge pking where it used to be respectful to at least sit at an hp that could be co-ed with combo's like msb -> spec wep if the enemy was clean enough in the combo and hit the right rng and you somehow didnt get to eat quick enough. Now thats considered being chanced and that's looked down upon... You'd get sick fights where people who were better at eating or venge stacking would still win most fights. People would often prioritise dmg over eating to try smite or stack someone out. Basically, people pk-ed like skill specs still does today. Risk it cos its fun or you might get the kill because you risked. He gets memed on cos he dies, but that to me was the most fun pking.
get a maxed pure and use msb ti gmaul into obby maul or anchor or elder maul, that’s best in slot at practically every bracket
@@coolzhowful that’s another thing… they need to nerf using msb in melee gear… they talked about it before and did nothing about it. I’m tired of getting target after target with msb to AGS or Voidwaker. They break your vengs and tick the spec with the msb. Half the time my D scim can’t even out dps an msb when they’re using fighter torso, platelets and neitz helm w/ fire cape. Wtf is that?
So dumb.
@@TheWetCanadian also bro watch this video... Billrs high risk pk video 40, should give you an idea of the meta of pking now a days
We need new foods that heal like 25-30 or better combo foods
Framed, what does rebuke do if you have dharoks + amulet of the damned + suffering + vengeance..?
It seems like it isn’t taking into account the armor at all?
I think that the recoil damage should at least take into account the recoiler’s accuracy and the specer’s armor so you cant just 0 risk smite someone in full torv
I would assume this needs to stay to prevent rushers. If it were to be utilized in a pvp aspect its a saving grace and used professionally otherwise it'll prevent getting rushed. 😊
Lol stop you pixie stick
it should have some drawbacks like it cant bring the enemy below 1 hp,makes you unable to attack for 5 sec and drain all your prayer when you reflect with it
only way to make it fair
but that would be a long description to write for a prayer i suppose
If this comes into the game, I'm never playing again
Get ready for iron dagger p++ with that poison prayer, fellas hittin 6’s every other tick
iron knife*
i can already see, that 6 out of 8 people left in pvp are going to stand around with the mirror thingy with nothing but a rune cross
Hey Framed fans, what is the difference between this yt channel and the framed one?
I think if rebuke makes it into the game it's just going to become the 2023 version of soulsplit in that people will just handshake and agree to not use it in PvP or they wont get fights
facts
They should make it so it only can be activated before the hit for one hit. That way the player who puts the prayer up needs to actually time it and do a switch.
And it should have a timer to cool down, like 100 ticks or something.
What is the name of the armor used for the 90 max hit setup
The recoil buff should have astronomical prayer drain. Would absolutely change PKing, but it would be interesting to see people flick it with veng.
I was thinking that it removes the bonus damage from you in prayer points. But it still means you could risk essentially nothing and be killing people with HUGE risk
glacies vow is to lower the enemies magic level by up to 15%, so level 99 mages will constantly have to keep using restores in order to barrage spam.
tfw DT2 is an ancient magics nerf lmao
Yes another example that's terrible for PvP.
At this point curses with nerfed soul split and turmoil sounds better if you think about it
that's fucking hilarious, hope they keep it. I wanna look like I just bought noted bones to chaos altar, and hope someone specs me, while I risk legitimately nothing.
Could just literally make that prayer only work on PvM encounters honestly. Feel like that was going to be the main use (pvming) for such a thing, more chip damage and what not.
Absolutely busted in PvP. At most make it like +50% recoil damage in PvM and maybe +5% in PvP or something
In terms of actual feedback on the rest of the prayers:
I was really hoping for some game changing stuff that makes you want to pick and use BOTH prayer books for very different scenarios. Like solomission said, a lot of it just feels like upgrades on the old book with a few new things.
Some examples of what I mean is let's say item protection. Instead of just being a +1 item protect like the normal book, this one now instead makes you keep your 2nd most valuable item, rather than the most. Higher risk vs reward for using the prayer book.
Or if looking at some pvm things; how about prayers that give different boosts depending on whether the player is standing still, walking or running? Combining it with the ingame movements to create more dynamic gameplay.
I ain't saying those 2 ideas are the best prayer ideas ever, just some examples of what I meant with more game changing things. Oh maybe you wouldn't use that over the normal prayer book at a boss where you stand still a lot, but it'd be amazing at TOA where you're constantly moving.
More things like that would be great in my eyes
Jagex are limited by the engine. Certain things they cannot do. That's the whole reason they did the evolution of combat update back in the day. To upgrade the engine so they can do more things.
The new prayers will require skill. However, the style of pking will change. As it is possible to get killed from max hp if ur opponent is venged, you have to trick your opponent at times, when they will try to time the venge. Eg. u pull out spec wep when opponent is low hp, they will try to time it and you have to break it without specing. That now leads to a 30 second window for you to get the spec off, while they don’t have venge. It’s going to be more like a game of chess. Interesting.
The poison damage immediately prayer would be broken in pvp for stuff like the dragon dagger special attack wouldnt it? A guarenteed 6+ damage added to the dagger is kinda crazy, and theres the new bh abyssal dagger.
even with serp helm on the chance is only 50%, and without serp helm it's 25% and it only has a chance on successful hits, so it's really not as much guaranteed damage as you'd think
Another guy commenting who has no idea what they’re talking about. It’s not guaranteed because you aren’t guaranteed to poison duhhhhh
@@andymcevoy3109 I said "wouldn't it?" Because I wasn't sure lmao, congratulations you have niche knowledge of exactly how poison on a dagger works. 🤡
Every max hit you gain is .5 damage gained per hit. So with 4 max hits gained you should average 2 more damage on every single hit just for those who don’t know
Honestly osrs is creeping into rs3 more and more, torva is here, virtus is coming? pernix not far away, all these op raid items changed alot of what i used to love about osrs.
As long as they don’t change the combat it will be fine.
its moving more to how it was _pre-eoc_ . And pre eoc, it was some of the best rs era there ever was
Rebuke is a bad prayer but if you just remove protect item again like the previous interactions of these prayers. No one will use them outside of high risk worlds.
The next thing that will happen is the increase of max HP. A new brew or food item that heals more or allows you to go over current max HP
Rebuke and intensify are both horrifically bad. Gambit was a perfect prayer, and rebuke needs to be removed or reworked entirely.
Gambit was PERFECT before, an overhead prayer that sacrificed protection prayers for the benefit of slightly increased DPS. Absolutely perfect.
Intensify is basically just a better version of vaporize, which doesn’t make any sense.
@@cheezyboy2511 I don't see an issue with intensify because it can't be used in conjunction with other offensive prayers
@@advente_ it’s not an issue in a way that makes it broken, I’m saying that it’s an issue because it’s completely terrible.
@@cheezyboy2511 yea true the only reason I can think to use it is with shadow since the new mage prayer only gives 2 max hits, but it’s already pretty accurate and I’d have to dps calc to see if it’s even worth it.
@@advente_ the fact that anyone would consider using it over the intended combat styles prayer for DPS makes me sick. It needs to be additional, 8% accuracy as an overhead was beautiful.
I think an easy fix would be to cap the additional damage. 50% extra damage for hits up to 40 for example.
That or make it a different amount in pvp scenarios like 10%
Finally i can go into the wildy and to my lovely chaos altar with my full 1487k Dragon bones
They should make Intensify 75 prayer and delete rebuke or reduce it to 10% while making its prayer drain slower.
Sounds like rebuke will keep me alive in the wildly :)
The polls will decide.