Interview with Robert Spencer, author of The Church and the Pope (Uncut Mountain Press Conference)
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2022
- The Church and the Pope: The Case for Orthodoxy
by Robert Spencer
Order here:
uncutmountainpress.com/shop/p...
OVERVIEW
Today, the place and authority of the bishop of Rome in the first millennium has become a matter of great interest and importance not only for the official dialogue but for all serious seekers of the true Church. One such seeker is the prolific New York Times Bestselling Author Robert Spencer, who applied his analytical acumen to a thorough examination of The Church & The Pope.
From the New Testament and the Apostolic Fathers through the Oecumenical Councils and the filioque controversy in the time of St. Photios the Great, on up to the Great Schism, all of the “flash points” of church history indicate the same conciliar nature of the Church as witnessed in Acts: “it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us.”
The whole “cloud of witnesses” give testimony to the truth of the Church vis-a-vis the post-schism papal claims: the Apostle Peter himself and the choir of the Apostles, St. Clement of Rome, St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Polycarp of Smyrna, St. Irenaeus of Lyons, St. Cyprian of Carthage, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Athanasius the Great, St. John Chrysostom, Blessed Augustine, St. Gregory the Great, St. Photios the Great and others.
Viewing the life and nature of the Church throughout the first millennium through the spiritual vision of these great saints, Spencer first walked, and now walks us, out of the weeds of innovation and division and back into the garden of the Church Fathers where unity and continuity shine.
NOTES
1st edition
Robert Spencer is a New York Times Bestselling author
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Robert Spencer is the director of Jihad Watch and a Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center. He is the author of twenty-three books including two New York Times bestsellers. Spencer is a regular columnist for PJ Media and FrontPage Magazine and has written hundreds of articles about Islam and other issues. He is also a regular on major news media outlets and speaker at universities across America.
DETAILS
First published: July 2022
Length (softcover): 112 pages
Size (softcover): 6 x 9 inches
ISBN (softcover): 978-1-63941-005-7 
Развлечения
Love the intro music. Was recently on Mount Athos and got to hear the Paraklesis chanted during the morning service. An amazing experience
The intro music is actually not from the Paraklesis, even though the Tone/Mode used is the same. It's the Beatitudes (Makarismi) from the Divine Liturgy recorded by the Choir of Vatopedi Fathers.
I remember praying that Robert would become Orthodox and glory to God his zeal and love of Christ led him home. The love and mercy of the Lord is infinite and he calls everyone to communion. Glory to God ☦️🙏
Axios! Slava Bogy! XB!
Pray for my friend Justin
I am reading Spencer's book at the current moment 👍 IC XC NIKA!
God bless and protect Robert Spencer
I have always been a fan of Robert Spencer
Great interview Fr. Peter! I loved it when Dr. Spencer said: The liturgy is the way people encounter the faith. the adage that style effects content is inescapable.
Thank you for this interview, I regularly read Spencer and I also regularly listen to Fr Peter. Wonderful to have both together!
Yes also Fradd and Scott Hahn .. basically they are all in denial
@@gottliebgrubber92Yeh. Slippery too 😉
Wow. Can't wait to listen to this, what a meeting of minds! 😊🙏☦
Wow, I've been a fan of David Wood for several years. And I regularly watch you two in your Week in Jihad. As deeply as David studies, I have been astonished that he isn't visibly attached to the Ancient faith itself.
Then later I realized that you were Catholic.
Now Orthodox! And I pray all that much more for David and his friends. They have no idea how much they are missing out.
Yes. I am intrigued too that David Wood has not leaned towards Orthodoxy, whereas it appears his previously Protestant ally, Sam Shamoun, is leaning towards Orthodoxy, if indeed he has not already become Orthodox.
So christian god Jesus was born to a 12 year old Middle Eastern girl, trinitrian Christians god was a Middle Eastern Palestinian men that looked like the Jews and Muslims of that area, came out of her privates, he was breast fed as a baby so he can could survive, he called Mary mother, she carried him around, she cleaned him when he peed and pooped, so Mary saw you’re gods private parts 🤦🏻♂️🤨
Are you Christian’s mentally ill!
Worship the creator of Jesus not the creation!
Will watch after we finish Met Neophytos interview!
God bless, amazing interview Fr. Heers, I really like Robert Spencer and I have a few of his books on Islam that I used before I was an Orthodox and I was very involved in apologetics, having said that, one of the persons that made me really break from protestantism into apostolic faith is a roman catholic apologist by the name of William Albrecht, in my opinion he's the best there is so far. I think Robert and him would give a really interesting debate or conversation
May our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ protect our Orthodox Mother Church and all Christians
I was delighted to hear Robert Spencer is now Orthodox Christian, I purchased his version of the Quran to outline its errors and wish he would work with Dr. David Woods, to create an index of passages that highlights their heresy, I would purchase it in a heartbeat.
The Second Vatican Council's stance on Islam and the Jews is a major problem that Catholic polemicists and apologists simply don't take seriously enough. They often attempt to hand waive this issue away without dealing with the substance of the matter. The fact of the matter is that the Church Fathers and Scripture are absolutely clear: you cannot worship the Father if you explicitly reject the Son. You do not worship the Triune God If you reject any of the Divine Persons. The divine substance is not divided where one Divine Person may be worshipped without the Other(s). This is why Sts. Irenaeus and John Chrysostom are absolutely clear: the Jews (and therefore the Muslims, who explicitly tout that "God has no Son") do not worship the true God.
Modern Catholics want you to believe that the whole world worships the true God, but in varying degrees (some more and some less) of fullness. This is not the Orthodox Catholic faith. Many worship the evil one.
Here is what we Muslims “explicitly tout” about God, as you like to refer to it. And this is what we know all of the Prophets of God, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon all of them) have taught to the world. The clear and pure Truth that brings peace to the heart:
We believe that He is One with no partner. He has no equal. He has no companion, parents nor any offspring, being above all such needs. He was not created by anyone.
He is the One in His Essence, Attributes and Actions. Nothing within creation resembles Him.
He has neither a beginning nor an end. He exists on His own without being in need of anyone or anything. He does not eat, sleep or drink. He created the whole creation and is no need of any of them.
He is the One Who maintains His creation. Nothing within His creation is free of Him even for a moment.
He sees and hears all they do with His perfect knowledge. Nothing is hidden from Him.
He provides for the whole of His creation, from His infinite Mercy.
He is known by His many attributes, some of which He has revealed to His creation. From amongst His most important attributes are His mercy and grace and His justice. From His mercy, He rewards those who believe in Him and from His justice He punishes those who reject Him.
He alone has absolute power and is the one who gives life and death; He alone deserves to be worshipped.
To know Him and to worship Him is the purpose of creation. The only true knowledge is knowledge of the Creator. He, through His infinite mercy allowed the creation to know Him and recognize Him through sending Prophets and signs in the creation of the universe.
He created creation as a proof of His existence. Everything in creation testifies to His existence. However, His true reality has been hidden from creation.
We believe in all of this with certainty, having no doubts about Him.
@@muj8151983 YOUR RELIGION IS POLITICAL WAY OF LIVING ,HAVING CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM VALUES IN IT.
IF YOU BELIEVE THAT MOHAMET WILL SAVE YOU AND NOT JESUS ,,THAT IS YOUR DECISION AND CHRIST HIMSELF SAID IT.
WHO EVER WANTS WILL FOLLOW ME .
SINCE GOD IS LOVE WILL NOT FORCE ANYBODY TO FOLLOW HIM.
YOUR RELIGION IS BASED UPON FORCE.
Yep. And they do *NOT* worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and there are many great Christian apologists (some of the best are Arabic speaking, reading, writing ex-Muslims) who demonstrably prove this 😉
If you have an understanding of ecumenism then you will understand that anything goes.
Two Paths by Michael Whelton is an excellent book on the Orthodox Church vs. Roman Catholicism. It has led many Roman Catholics to the Orthodox Church.
It is. I have just started reading it, though I wasn’t a Catholic 😉
So christian god Jesus was born to a 12 year old Middle Eastern girl, trinitrian Christians god was a Middle Eastern Palestinian men that looked like the Jews and Muslims of that area, came out of her privates, he was breast fed as a baby so he can could survive, he called Mary mother, she carried him around, she cleaned him when he peed and pooped, so Mary saw you’re gods private parts 🤦🏻♂️🤨
Are you Christian’s mentally ill!
Worship the creator of Jesus not the creation!
Wow Father that was excellent. How gracious our Lord is to continue to enlighten the minds of so many! I pray it may be so all the way to the very last and chaotic days that lie yet ahead. Glory be to God!!! 🙏☦️
Basically saying what Jay Dyer says but Trent, Dr Marshall, and other trads deny or twist the truth to try to win their arguments.
🤺☦🇷🇺Jay Dyer and Islamophobe Robert Spencer are an absolute proof that American "Orthodox", are nothing but a Protestant or Gnostic JOKE, not Christianity. Those weaklinks are hijacking our holy Orthodox identity, and couldn't even answer basic questions about our scripture and doctrines, and got humiliated by Muslims😅🤣🤣
I appreciate Robert Spencer for his work with exposing Jihad and am glad to hear from him on this subject as well. It takes a lot to make a huge change like this after being confronted with the truth.
Happy Saturday!
Awesome vid. Thanks Fr. ✝️🙏🏻
Amin 💞🇬🇷☦️🥰🙏+++
Thank you!
Robert could attend the old Traditional Latin Mass which is the Mass of the ages, the Mass of Pope St Gregory the Great. He does not need to leave the Church.
Maybe Robert and Michael Lofton can have a debate/discussion
Wonderful and inspiring interview by two worthies.
I have the breviary titled Byz. Daily Worship by Melkite bishop Joseph Raya. The 2nd Sunday of Lent is dedicated to the Holy Relics.
@@LadyMaria I have lots of books. Spencer made reference to the Melkites not commemorating St Gregory on 2nd Sunday. He couldn't remember what they did. I was answering that.
Wow,nice👏👏👏☦️❤️
The Orthodox Church does play with the liturgy. The Western Rite Orthodox have been subject to many Byzantinizations which were not part of historical western patrimony. Old Calendarists would also dispute that statement.
(I’ll still buy and read the book I think a few points here were just weak)
Would love to see Michael Lofton or Gavin Ortlund interview Robert Spencer on papacy.
IC XC NIKA ☦
Father what is the name of the opening hymn? It is so beautiful.
here:
ruclips.net/video/nITbMJwSGo4/видео.html
And also here:
ruclips.net/video/IOYnlGozR3I/видео.html
17 min. mark and further for the particular section showcased.
I'm going to comment here as a pilgrim sinner seeking our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, whom I have encountered as a Melkite - and one who has no confusion over our identity, but respectful of those Orthodox Christians who cannot yet in good conscience share Eucharist with the Church of Rome. I am an Orthodox Christian, who is of the pursuasion that, while I disagree with the Latin post-schism theologumena re: ecclesiology, papal primacy, etc, I see these things as simply the opinions they are, and given the plethora of acceptable theological opinions present within the Orthodox Communion, I don't see these opinions as an obstacle to Communion; especially given what our Lord, the Apostles, and the Fathers have to say about the importance of Unity within the Body of Christ. That being said, our Communion with the Church of Rome is one of Charity and, as clarified by our Holy Synod and Patriarch in 1997, we hold to the Orthodox faith, and to the primacy as understood in the 1st millennium and by the Eastern fathers as the "first among equals". We acknowledge only 7 Ecumenical Councils (the other post-schism councils of the west are local synods and not universally binding), pray the Creed without the Filioque, and pray the same prayers, Hours, and Divine Liturgy as any other Eastern Church of the Byzantine [Eastern Roman] Liturgical family. In light of the above. we hold, despite Rome's disagreement on the matter, that dual Communion is possible, and Unity should be actively fought for. I won't leave the Melkite Church because A., I am already Orthodox in my theology, ecclesiology, soteriology, liturgy and prayer life - and B., because doing so would formally (and needlessly) rupture the Communion I share with some family members who are Roman Catholic. Some other Orthodox would admit me to Communion, (and if traveling, I would seek first an Orthodox parish over a Roman one) and others would say I am a schismatic or heretic. In my opinion, that seems the more schizophrenic position. In the end, this schism is the result of our sins, and only our Lord can sort this out. God bless all in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church ("...being of the same body through East & West believed..." Patriarchical Encyclical of 1895) striving for heaven. Kyrie Eleison!
orthodoxcouncil.org/-/orthodox-catholic-dialogue-.html#:~:text=The%20Encyclical%20of%20%EE%80%801895%EE%80%81%20states%20that%20%E2%80%9Cfor%20the,the%20East%20and%20West%20believed%2C%20and%20to%20%E2%80%A6
pdfhost.io/v/uAG55oMZ9_We_Are_All_Schismatics.pdf
Friend I'm a former Uniate that had very close ties with several prominent Melkites in the United States. I have converted to Orthodoxy after spending 6 years of my life in a uniate religious order affiliated with Melkite Catholicism, melkites are not orthodox. They identify as orthodox and in my experience what they think in terms of Christian unity is the heresy of ecumenism which is commonly advocated for by those in uniate Catholicism.
It took me 13 years to realize what I thought was an experience with God in Catholicism was actually an elaborate deception and self-inflicted delusion. I would presume to believe that you are a Goodwilled person with the correct intentions, however, please consider if you are a victim of influence as I am very guilty of having been in the past by being associated with Catholicism
@TranslatedAssumption Thank you very much for this thoughtful and caring reply to this old comment of mine via an old mirror channel of mine. I thought that you might enjoy knowing that I also am no longer a Melkite and was finally received into the Orthodox Church this past Nativitytide. God bless you and thank you for sharing the truth.
Our Lord also says: "call no man your father upon the earth" (Mt 23:9) & "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition." (Mc 7:9)
By the way, Acts 15 verse 19 also has something peculiar. James says "I have reached a decision..." This does seem to me to favor the authority of James more than the Roman Catholic argument. Can any cardinal dare say after listening to the Pope of Rome, "I have reached a decision"? found on internet
Quite simply, what do you think the constitution of the Church should look like?
There is good review of the book, by Allan Ruhl.
Do you mean the "shredding" of it?... which only addressed one chapter -- and excerpts from it? This is not the definition of a "good review" but rather of a butchering and distortion and deflection from it.
Strawman Ruhl
Was there ever a practice of taking appeals from Rome to another church, and not only from other churches to Rome?
Yes, in the east, to Constantinople. There are canons which direct appeals to their metropolitan and to Oecumenical Councils.
@@OrthodoxEthos Cases were appealed from Rome to Constantinople?
No. I just mean that there are appeels locally to the local Metropolitans. That’s what was happening in the east as well as the west
FYI Two Popes were condemned by Oecumenical Councils held in the east. And the eighth ecumenical council in Constantinople rejected pope Nicolas and his position.
@@OrthodoxEthos Local appeals I know about. The Pope who was condemned by a Council was Honorius.
and an appeals court isn’t a ruling court. Rome decided which cases should be taken back and redone. That’s not an ultimate authority, that’s part of a working system.
Tik Tok it’s time to rock
☦️☦️☦️
I'm glade he didn't write a book to promote the unbiblical papacy.
All, the debate Robert mentions he participated in is with Monsignor Stuart Swetland and is titled 'Is Islam violent?'.
Is the Pope Catholic?
No.
Nope.
I heard he wanted to become Catholic but ended up becoming a Jesuit
Spencer is right. Pope Frank is off the rails on a crazy train.
Whenever I hear arguments like "Pope Gregory the great said there is no universal bishop" as an argument against the Papacy I know the guy is not going to have an in depth understanding of the History. There are better arguments for Orthodoxy but this one is a total misrepresentation and its clear Gregory the Great did think he had universal jurisdiction. His argument about no universal bishop who basically causes all other bishops to not exist is nothing like the papacy and has nothing to do with papal primacy. Its such a weak argument.
No it isn't. St. Gregory is very emphatic in what he means. The claim of the sole bishop was not St. John the Faster's presumed assertion but the implications of the assertion, which is what St Gregory tackled. He clearly called St. Peter only the head of a particular community and that the Bishop of Rome's title of Universal was merely canonical.
Hence, whatever he meant when he claimed universal jurisdiction was definitely not the Vatican I view.
@@jesusbreamusic9831 and completely denies elsewhere by Pope Gregory, this is not disputed by orthodox theologians not serious ones by any means
@@lionheart5078 Serious theologians like St Mark noted that St Gregory had limitations to his role as the pope which was noted in the reactions to his liturgical reform to mimic the form of the greeks which in the west many did not follow his mandates and went with their own tradition.
It is not true that Catholics must listen to Pope when he repeats it often enough. Just because Msg Strickland said it doesn't mean it's true. I find it hard to believe Spencer truly believes this as true.
Msg Strickland calling Spencer a heretic because his opinion on Islam differs from the Pope is wrong too. The definition of heretic is going against church official teaching, not Popes unofficial opinion.
His conversion is unconvincing and I doubt he will remain Orthodox for long.
Read Vatican I in detail
Just from listening to this now, and coming from a very uneducated standpoint, it sounds like one could compare the gross exaggeration of papal authority over the church to saying that being a head of state - prime minister, monarch, president - automatically equates to being an infallible dictator. The Stalin position!
I feel ashamed about what Strickland said. If you read Pius XII you will see very different opinions on modernism and other religions. The Vatican II was a disaster. I feel bad the catholic Church is so destroyed. Theres barely any of the faith i signed up for there anymore. I only feel okay when i go to the Traditional Latin Mass. I feel similar to Mr. Spencer...plus my boyfriend is greek 😆 i need to think deeply
I'm became Catholic 10yrs ago. The more I leaned . I could see wrong teaching . Learning more about the Orthodox church love it .but bad stuff bleeding into it it's self. God bless the true church is true believes who will die for God truth
In Catholicism I went from being Novus Ordo, to tlm, to Uniate Catholicism, to a pretender monastery... All over the course of 13 years and then I finally left to enter into Orthodoxy. If I could go back in time I would have started this journey into Orthodoxy the day I got my driver's license and could drive to my nearest Orthodox Parish.
For me Catholicism was emptiness coupled with use and abuse in the religious order I was a part of.
@@TranslatedAssumption ive been in a monastery the catholic order i was in wasnt so bad. No abuse this is for sure. Theres a lot of orders as you probably know. Also it can depend on the country. In 1 year my feelings changed...no more greek boyfriend (he left me 🤷♀️) and no more issue with catholicism. Im gonna stay and fight against the nonsense. Found a good prayer group and lets see how it all ends up. The truth is the current problems where prophesized. Im glad you are at peace spiritually. Its a very personal thing...you are still a christian that receives the Sacraments. I cannot judge or say anything negative. Thank you for being respectful. Since some people attacked me verbally that i havent seen anything else orthodoxy related.
@@etcwhateverallow me to share something with you is that my spiritual father in Orthodoxy shared with me, he happens to be a very well-known archimandrite and is likely the future Bishop of his jurisdiction.
You might think that you are fighting the good fight but despite our honorable intentions, in Catholicism we are fighting on a battlefield in which everyone gets slaughtered. It is quite literally a spiritual slaughterhouse at the end of the day. I spent 13 years "fighting the good fight" and was left with a profound sense of spiritual emptiness add went through periods of severe despair and despondency. You can call yourself an adherent 2 traditional Catholicism but I can assure you that there is no tradition in Catholicism aside from a counterfeit version of Orthodoxy.
According to the Orthodox Church, Theodore of Tarsus is a saint but John Fisher is not. What’s the cutoff date in English history which enables us to say that? Robert Spencer appears to have done a U-turn on John Fisher.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that that the cutoff date for mutual commemoration of Saints in English history initially began in continental Western Europe with the departure in schismatic heresy of the Papacy from the Faith of Christ of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church on 16 July 1054; and, by the time the Papist heresy had reached the shores of England in force, with and by the hand of William Duke of Normandy, at the Battle of Hastings on 14 October 1066, it began to be all over for the West in England, as such.
One could also argue that for England, it ultimately was all over on 15 October 1072, when Æthelric, the former Bishop of Durham, having been arrested by King William I of England after 10 May 1072 and subsequently imprisoned in the Tower of London upon his arrest, gave up his soul to the Lord on the 15th of October [1072], having made the Sign of the Cross and anathametized the Pope.
And it has been this way in the West ever since that day, unto the present day and time, as such.
This is not simply one person's personal opinion, per se:
This opinion is commonly recognized as being borne out by accepted factual historical record.
The Filioque was introduced by St Theodore at the Council of Hatfield in 680. It wasn’t in dispute at the Battle of Hastings.
A roman catholic has to manifest the Pope's wishes according to the Catechism of the Catholic church.
Citation? Which paragraph?
My question to a Catholic is, how can you know about the Inquisition and the fact that RC church tried to burn down heresy with heresy from which the strongest heresies were born ( from which Christianity suffers today), and be still a Catholic!? Of course Pope with say that Islam is a religion of peace, because whatever Islam does, the RC church has already done.
this guy is a big liar
Cool story bro
Robert Spencer should know that the Pope is not always infallible as Vatican I taught. Hence Robert does not need to listen to or obey Pope Francis when the Pope is not teaching infallibly. The Pope does have universal jurisdiction because the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, as Christ gave to St Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. Just as Christ, the invisible Head of the Church, has universal jurisdiction over the whole earth, so the visible head of the Church, which is the Pope, must also have universal jurisdiction. In the coming years, when the Pope finally does the collegial consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary as Our Lady of Fatima requested, and that results in the conversion of Russia to the Catholic Faith and true peace in the world, then it would become very clear that the universal jurisdiction of the Pope is really a dogma of the Church approved and demanded by Heaven. I am sad that Robert has left the Catholic Church. May Jesus & Mary help him to return to the Catholic Church, and see the true light of the Faith.
Catholicism is a massive mythology.
why would you as a christian choose to platform such a hateful man?
Hateful? Sorry?
@@OrthodoxEthos youre not aware this man spent the greater part of his career hatemongering against and antagonizing muslim immigrants in the west?
@@OrthodoxEthos you dont think that contradicts christian values?
Against immigrants themselves? Or does he stand against Islam *itself*? Is there not a difference? One is a human being, made in the image and likeness of God, another is a heresy, indeed a Christian heresy, condemned as such for 1500 years by all of the Church Fathers and Councils.
@@OrthodoxEthos doesn't the church teach "do unto others as you'd want others do unto you?" how is either of this appropriate?
10:20
13:15