@@milleniumdragonknight4711 would be almost an insult though. Maybe if there is a good reason at some point, but I don't think any building is that bad.
"You should ban slaves as early as possible" "Because slavery is immoral, right?" "No, to replace it with actually usefull tradegoods" -Peak minmax grindset.
when i first encountrred that decision i was really glad. i mean moneywise, it is nice but more importantly i like being a nice colonizer and not having slave trade makes me happy
I was playing an Inca campaign while hearing you talk about Ramparts, and when you said they'd been nerfed I tried building one on Cuzco, and there was no problem. I also had a line of Fort+Ramparts on various mountain forts defending me from the Ottomans for my Persia campaign last patch. That nerf either never happened or was quickly reversed.
It was a proposed nerf that got reversed last year, before it got implemented. From one of the Domination dev diaries; "Ramparts can now only be placed on terrain which is seen as “Flatland” in the game. This means it is only possible to build ramparts on farmlands, grasslands, steppes, savannahs, drylands, (coastal) deserts and coastlines." (March 21st, 2023, Balance and User Modding) But, as said, it was reversed because it was a *very* unpopular proposal. Most every comment on the dev diary and EU4 reddit were against it. So, in the comments of the diary, Ogele said; "With that being said, the changes to the ramparts have been rolled back for 1.35. So it will be just like in 1.34 once the patch gets released." (March 21st, 2023, Balance and User Modding)
@@7777-z7p ah good to know. I haven't used them in SP, and in MP the mods I played with removed them, so that's great news AFAIK. Yeah for that reason, they should be much higher up.
Ramparts are pretty neat to plug the holes in the mountain in Anbennar. Building them in holds, if they are not border holds are pretty useless IMO. You can easily max out the building slots in holds, so finding a room for ramparts can be tricky.
Nice video. I tend to rate the trade buildings higher because of the TC region goods produced bonus. Given that they're cheaper than manufactories and affect 10~20 provinces at once, they can end up extremely powerful for their price if you do the "only TC CoT provinces" strategy.
Fair enough, although although I think that's a pretty niche strategy overall, and even then its not reliant or anything on the trade buildings: it still works well without them.
Attrition really got nerfed hard when they implemented a limit back when the introduced policies. Stacking attrition was kind of nuts back in the day having enemy armies lose over 12% of their manpower every month they're sieging you...
@@LemonCake101 to be fair there were a lot less modifiers to play with and stack back in the day, but it was pretty insane especially with the AI's tendency to doomstack.
Another thing about forts is that they passively reduce devastation in the provinces in their zone of control. So, they're pretty good unless you're playing really, really wide.
You can use marketplaces to generate money by combaning them with trade companies. For example, if you are playing Russia and after you move your capital, you can create trade companies in Kazan and in other places. By placing a markerplace on the province of Kazan, making it a trade company, and sabotaging all other trade centers, you can increase the power of the trade company so it gives you more trade good modifier in the tradenode. So technically speaking the marketplace is generating more money indirectly from trade and production.
Regarding the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
I think you should add an F-tier just for naval batteries. The hostile fleet attrition doesn't work against someone with maritime ideas; because of the sea_repair modifier, you don't lose sailors. At least the last time I tested it, I doubt Paradox fixed it.
I find them selectively useful, usually for something like getting Venice to repair their ships, allowing me onto their island. But that only really works on ai
I find that in singleplayer the ai becomes really hesitant to land you if you have naval batteries, thus I find them useful when playing in Indonesia/the Moluccas against colonizers since they often have way more soldiers/ships than you and you can build like 1 every state and essentially prevent blockades and landings in their entirety. Also if you build on on Cape the ai hates to move their ships that way so you can prevent Portuguese/Spanish/British/French fleets from even getting close to your region.
Market places are pretty useful to get over 50% tradeshare for the trade companies. And even after you controll all the trade in a trade region it's still pretty useful for the goodsproduced bonus you get based on the tradepower share of trade companies.
Regarding the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
Full discloser I am not making any money off this suggestion but if you are on steam, consider the $5 1 month subscription, to try it out, and then do the classic humble bundle or big sail to buy all of them. I remember using that method pre subscription to get all the DLC's for around $30 total when they where on sale (and in fairness I have bought the last 6 full price on release, but then again I spend way too long playing Eu4)
if forts could deal with rebels, give suppression or triggered modifier like: 25% of dev is fortified so you get some army quality modifier it would make them more interesting
Marketplaces can be used for increasing the provincial trade power in trade company provinces, thus giving more goods produced in non-trade company provinces.
Anbennar Ramparts: Anbennar decided they didn't want that balance change. You can totally build ramparts in Holds, Mountains, Caves, etc. Gor Burad (and a few others) actually have a way to add +1 die roll for defender if you invest into a province in your home region, so you can get +2 for defender added to the -2 attacker terrain, giving you an insane 4 pip advantage. Then you can mix in the Dwarven Monuments submod which is absolutely broken and gives a monument in every hold, making the holds silly to attempt to siege.
1.town hall is EVEN better that courthouse because it reduces province governing cost by a percentage and that means every percentage point is mor valuable 2.not something that changes the tier list but rennaissance is basically guaranteed 5% construvion cost reduction and it is so early most building are unlocked after you have it 3.production efficiency, goods produced and to an extent dev cost reductions scale up wit individual province trade good value (technically so do trade buildings in trade centers), while temples are stable 4.shipyards let you have more naval force limit which lets you mass galleys instead of heavy ships for less upkeep cost, they are also faster (but not as fast as trade ships) 5."technically" naval defense prevents piracy, which causes devastation and removes prosperity, still not worth it 6.there is an edge case use for manufactories and that is if you are close to production leader but can't easily take more in war, 10% trade good production is pretty good 7.mills is made worse by the fact it competes in manufactory slot with state house, 1 trade good of porcelain isn't worth an additional 40 dev of stated land
State house is not with porcelaine. Its only with Gems, Paper and Glass. I'm starting to use State Houses and I dev to 15, expand infrastructure and build both a State house and a manufactury. I end up with states costing me between 1 and 6 GC with only courthouses and not townhall.
@@phileascurtil5605 I mean the expand infra is also quite bad for gov cost for sure, but yeah I personally dev to 20 for the build slot, and then more if/when I run out of room to dev
@@LemonCake101 for gems etc it's entirely negated by the state house and if it's not on gems, it's only +5 GC and +5% so not that bad for a good increase
@@phileascurtil5605 It's not entirely negated on gems etc. You can only build one state house in a state, and there are some states which have more than one province which produces a state house good.
Thank you so much for taking audio listeners into consideration on videos where it is possible! It's great to have something like this when doing chores. Also wanted to mention that regimental camps have the 'Growth of regimental towns' event associated with it. So even if you are totally good on force limit, you should always build one. Similar how you should always have at least one high development province without university for the diet that gives you 35 points of each category.
No worries, I wouldn't want to ignore any of my viewers! I knew about the 'Growth of Regimental Towns' event but good to know about the 35 point of each diet, I was not actually aware that required a no uni high dev province (I mean looking back it makes a lot of sense)
Your talk about naval batteries reminded me of my first game as Portugal, i was REALLY stressed out by the morrocan raids and invested All i have in naval batteries 😂
Understand shipyards but, docks there is some nations which get very good marines or where marines can be used as a second manpower pool, there docks can be good or atleast c-tier Marketplaces can also be used in trade company provinces to increase the % modifier for trade goods
Interesting video which I enjoyed. However a lot of your ratings depend on playstyle, nation choice and game goals. I rate buildings that boost production above those that boost army size as for me money is more powerful than men.
I think forts can be very situational and depend on your countries strategical situation. Without them as France for example, it's practically impossible to fight a war against any European nation + Spain simultaneously, which can make mid game conquest into the HRE very difficult, but 2 max (for your tech) level forts buy you all the time you need to deal with arriving spanish troops
It's always driven me nuts how Paradox games fail to model the importance of navies. The most powerful countries in the entire time period were naval powers, not land powers. A strong navy takes a piss poor country like Portugal and turns it to an international powerhouse. A weak navy takes a rich land power like France and turns it into a regional sideshow. Blockades brought continent-spanning empires to their knees in a matter of weeks and months while million-strong armies starved.
All it takes is A) a better trade system with emphasis on naval routes. And more importantly B) Not millions of automatic loans to cover your army. Money as a whole is just not a
Unlike land attrition, AI actually respects naval attrition, so I kinda disagree on Naval Battery in singleplayer. Then you are playing on land and get acsess to sea tiles, you need a lot of money in order to secure naval superority. Also, you need to fill you naval force limit with galleys or heavies, instead of building more light ship for more money. But why wasting all that resources you can invest into more land or economy, then you can just build one Naval Battery in provinces that border 2 or more sea tiles? Once tech 14, you don't have to upgrade it. You don't have to micro it. You don't have to care about navy tradtion and reroll admirals. You don't have to spend more money on ships, then naval width increases. Overall, one building lets you completly ignore naval side of the game (I agree with your critics about it's depth btw), unless you want to conquer some island. Which is not happening so often. Naval battery is solid C tier.
I mean eventually if you are going to WC, you will need a navy, so don't waste building slots on Naval batteries when you can just build one of those and win: that's my approach in SP anyway.
I'm not that good at EU4 but I can't fully agree with your analyse. I think you should take in account when you unlock the building. For example courthouses are unlocked early when you may really struggle with gouverning capacity. Imo townhall is equal or below courthouse because as you said the game is almost over or you have other ways to reduce governing capacity. Shipyard is situational, it's useful when you have a short coast but still want to have a decent fleet or when you want to repair your fleet quickly to harass the ennemy.
I like to think I did. I mean pure power wise counting houses are insane, with 100% prod efficiency, but where ranked lower then workshops and most other buildings: and I did talk about tech quite a lot regarding unlock time. Basically, I feel like I did take into account time when you unlock?
Yes you did but I feel like you underastimated it. It's quite pretentious from me to say that as I have way less experience than you but it's still my opinion. I'm being influcenced by my ongoing game but I would put the townhall in A and put the courthouse in S. My reflexion is: "Is this building mandatory to build when I unlock it?". S tiers is "you should always have it in every possible (or useful) province and A tiers is in some common situation or in certain builds it's a very good building. In the cas of courthouses it's absolutely yes so S for me. In cas of the townhall it's yes but less necessary as you have some ways to not use it and still manage to go with it so A tiers. Counting houses as you said are just too late for their power so B is perfectly fine. When you are able to build them you should already be filthy rich. Another thing: I can still build remparts in mountains in my current game so I don't know if it's a bug or it has been reversed. All my fortline has remparts even in mountains.
@@phileascurtil5605 the rampart nerf was reversed and I was unaware: yeah they are really good and should be used. As for the building unlock it’s a subjective list at the end of the day, and well I do play quite a bit later then most. I find myself not struggling with gov cap too much in the early game, and by late game town halls are there to make it trivial hence the ranking.
As purely single player man I don't find military buildings useful. They would be most useful in the 1440s, but after the initial expansion I have enough of economy to defend myself and I build net of alliances. And if I have money I would still prefer to build production and trade building to growth the economy further. And I would I ever want to take military hegemony instead of economic one in SP?
When I said SP ranking, I was assuming World Conquest tryhard runs. If you are just chilling in Eu4, you don't need any of the buffs, well from any of the buildings, so the rankings become pointless.
I disagree about Marketplaces. While, yes, the best way to control trade is to conquer the world, the vast majority of games are not world conquest games. So it makes sense to increase your Trade Power to propagate it and get more trade that way. I'd say B for sure. It's not a build in all provinces building, but just build it in your high trade power provinces.
So I clearly need to mention this in the disclaimers again, but for the ranking to make sense I have to assume you are going for a SP WC tryhard run. If you are not doing that, the ranking is inherently pointless, because in a RP campaign you will build a marketplace regardless if it provides 50% trade power, 200% trade power or 3% trade power: you are playing in a non-competitive environment. Which is fine, more then fine actually: but it also means that ranking things is pointless within that domain. I mention this in the other tier lists, and I didn't do it here today so I guess that is on me.
@@LemonCake101 Fair point. But even then, unless you are a god of micro, you aren't going to be expanding in all directions at once. Might be worth to build them in colonial nodes while you wait for someone to colonise the new world for you :D
I like building a continues coast of shipyards so its built faster when I queue up a new fleet, but yeah they aint good unless you specifically use that forcelimit to make a larger trade fleet and havent conquered enough yet to dominate trade income with provinces alone.
I've 7600 hours in singleplayer. This is my rankings: S: Workshop, Courthouse, Goods Manufactories, Forts A: Town Hall, Temple, Counting House, State House, Soldier's Households B: University, Barracks, Training Fields, Furnace C: Cathedral, Regimental Camp, Conscription Center, Marketplace, Trade Depot, Rampart D: Dock, Drydock, Stock Exchange, E: Shipyard, Grand Shipyard, Coastal Defense, Naval Battery, Impressment Offices Logic is simply that if I were to lose complete access to a building, I'd rather lose access to something of a lower tier than a higher tier
For sure a very SP tier list, and in fairness I agree for SP. There is a lot less weight on army buildings, furnace eco etc then in a list with MP included.
@@LemonCake101 Army buildings tend to get build in clusters around areas focused around army (well manpower, anyways. Reg camps can go anywhere with slots). So for example a level 3 landlocked trade center with soldier's households and a training field and you spend a bunch of mil to dev mil up there. It's not like workshops and manufactories that get spammed everywhere.
@@LemonCake101 I don't have multiplayer experience really. But that does seem like a waste of ducats to me unless you're playing something where expanding is extremely difficult. Like everyone playing a Japanese Daimyo or something. Of course it'll be more important than SP since a player is more likely to jump in your weakness than the AI, but spamming it everywhere seems more likely to cause a weakness due to very poor returns in low manpower provinces.
@@TheRealXartaX well, the issue is more if your not doing that you are dying to someone who is, late game wars you are losing insane troop counts (last late game war was 7 mil vs 13mil casualties) and well you need manpower and FL to fight those wars.
I don't pay Multiplayer, but for me I always prioritize gov cap, production+trade, tax, manpower/sailors, and finally force limit (and forts in strategic areas). To me, workshops are far more valuable than temples in nearly every circumstance, because if you're controlling an end node or pseudo end node, you get the value of your production again as trade income, and if you aren't controlling your trade node, that should be your number one priority anyway.
No for sure, absolutely. Temples have -5% dev cost though, and can get up to 73% tax with privileges (which also stacks really well with the first age 50% tax policy)
I like the list, just feel like marketplace could go B maybe low A tier for most parts of Europe and the Far East. Also they can be helpful to get additional merchants in trade companys. Also for me Trade Depots could be C Tier for similar reasons, obviously both have less impact if you go for World Domination but to get you started they help alot. But again i really like the tier list overall!
Regarding the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump. As for their upgrade: too late into the game for me to be impactful. By that point, your trade really should be sorted.
Naval force limit will give you money from trade ships or make it cheaper for you to go above the cap, navy is already expensive. Think your completely wrong on those buildings, they are definitely A. Sailors can be used for manpower, but still don't think they break out of C as they scale worse than manpower. Marketplace can be pretty strong for increasing your trade companies goods produced modifier for the other provinces you have in the node.
But what does that navy achieve that taking that land over doesn't? You do need a navy for taking over say the spice islands, but owning India is going give you a lot more boat FL/Sailors then you need for those purposes: its basically never worth investing in it whether you play for a WC or a decent MP.
@@LemonCake101 Too bad you can't instantly take over everything you want. For naval FL: You can use trade ships to damage others economy while boosting your own trough piracy, trade steering and protecting trade. Or if you need to build up a massive navy for a huge player war, it saves you a TON of money. For sailors: Some nations get marines, 5th government reform amphibious specialization, or otherwise picking naval (or the niche maritime) lets you use sailors as manpower. Are you saying you have no use for manpower, money or your enemies to have less money?
@@Ragatokk I mean... you can? The current WR for a full WC is 1472, and there is an Ottoman save with 70% of the world done in 1466, with a 1470 projected finish. What I guess I mean with that is, at no point has investing in a navy been the optimal way of achieving your goals.
@@Ragatokk As for enemies having less manpower/money, that can again be achieved... by making your enemies not exist a lot more effectively then by annoying them with trade ships. Believe me I have played a decent chunk of MP games with naval trolling, and well, its that at best: trolling. You win everything navaly sure but you get deleted on land so you afk in the water and they afk on land. And on top of being not very effective, I also don't find that... fun?
Is military hegemony that important still after the nerfs? You can only get it so late and the heavy investment into regimental camps, most of the time ill just go eco
Have I posted enough comments for your community engagement to hit maximum levels yet 😉? But seriously this channel deserves more attention than it gets.
Thanks, but AFAIK the engagement metric is 1 per person, so one comment or 10 is the same to prevent people basically abusing it by using alts. Appreciate the sentiment though!
Aren't trade buildings actually better because 20% of provincial trade power goes in nodes upstream? So, for example, you can spam a lot of trade building in English Channel and then have pretty good trade power in neighboring nodes. Not like this is really so much or so strong, but at least helps you to secure trade in still unconquered trade nodes
@@LemonCake101not huge into TC and so I just spam court houses and worships. Workshops just scale the best and due to time money good in that regard as well
Hi Lemon Cake. Thanks for this great video. I have a question about trade power so with marketplaces as we deal about buildings here. Your point is that trade power doesn't create new money and value but as EU4 is a competitive game against your rivals and other nations, I would think that it's still interesting to have a bigger share for yourself even if the (Lemon) cake doesn't grow. You have a little more money and your opponents have less. I would think that sometimes it's even better than having more fresh money but your opponents too. I understand that at some point in Single player, you should be able to have the full control of trade nodes with all provinces. But as conquest is not unlimited, especially early game, I guess it can often be useful to focus on COT or estuaries with marketplaces in some compétitive nodes. When I play in single player, I always feel that marketplaces are the first and best buildings that gives me some air with money whereas temples and workshops have a long payback time. Am I that wrong ?
To be clear you are not wrong in how they work, but the same effect of more trade power for you and less for the enemy is equally achieved by... conquering the enemy. It is cheaper, and comes with more benefits.
Regarding the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
I don't think you can even hit that, 25% attrition just in practice removes the cap. And I tried games like that, and its awful to play. More historically accurate sure, but also significantly less fun, and it just forces you to commit to manpower building even harder. Once you have done that, it a normal game again, only the AI is even more crippled then usual.
Building a marketplace in trade company region boosts the % of trade power owned by your trade company boosting your bonus trade goods modifier in non trade company provinces in said region. It can boost your Trade goods produced by like bonus 20%. Also in recent patches there was a goverment reform added giving nations +15 flat trade power abroad. Meaning now AI actually steals your trade even if you try to create pseudo end node. In a world conquest after taking india you have to either conquer indonesia or china. Well if you do that then AI will steal your money from gujarata via zanzibar and gulf of aden sure you could conquer those regions to stop your money from being stolen, but where do you collect Venice? They steal in ragusa. Constantinople? Nope they steal to ragusa even if you own every provovince in ragusa venice and hungary. Persia? Nerfed and they also steal. Hormuz? Also they stealing. You have to make a choice do you want to have few easy wars in asia and get a lot of money with some being stolen or killing all of europe to prevent money from being stolen. Often times the first option is better, in that case marketplaces are a must not to have half of your trade income stolen.
Well, when it comes to preventing trade value being stole you can pseudo end node + conquer anyone contesting that. For the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
Maybe is S and A tier swapped it would be believable. Beside the barracks temple, workshop and courthouse all being the most cost effective, they all come earlier/at the right time. All S-tier come available when it doesnt matter at all any more and are only usefull for AI's.5% production efficiency with an income of 1000 ducats a month. +1 force limit if you still a 1 province minor after 50 year. Universities to decrease the development cost from 120 to a 100 . Improved courthouse 15 year before you get the +250 from l'etat c'est moy
I mean I see your point, but I tend to play pretty late for both MP and SP (especially compared to my comments it seems), and even by your own standards, well those buffs from workshops/temples etc fall off even more.
What are you on? Late game devving is insane and government capacity is easily manageable with trade companies, half states, buildings, etc. Most multiplayer lobbies nerf dev cost because it is so OP to dev for 3 cost in the late game
@@mrperson1O1 so you make development less efficient in other provinces by having higher autonomy. Also an option but instead, you could just expand and not waste monarch points on devving provinces higher than 1/10/10
@WealthyJester98 You can expand and dev, expansion should not cost many monarch points unless you are doing dumb stuff like rushing forts and taking tech way too early. Also, I only play multiplayer and very rarely is gov cap a major issue, usually buildings, reforms and estate privileges are enough to deal with it as the game goes on. I get that for singleplayer world conquests devving probably isn't as useful cause you just roll over the AI easily anyway. So gov cap might be more important there.
@@LemonCake101 hope it improves your retention numbers. Your star is on the rise I remember watching red hawk videos when he was using an ai voice to narrate his vids. Keep grinding and improving and you’ll make it up there with the eu4 elite.
Add every 2 min? That's insane, RUclips picks the add frequency not me. I heard there is an algorithm basically determining how 'dedicated' you are so if you are more dedicated you will click off from an add less, so congrats if that is true RUclips must think your a massive fan. Otherwise sorry, that is pretty brutal.
(you don't need to ping me in a first comment, I get a notification for a comment on the video directly) good to know, I hope that Dwarf mega formable missions come soon, its been a while since I've enjoyed some dwarf gameplay.
I really love how you try to tailor your context presentation to how your audience prefers to consume it. It's actually incredible sweet, and makes me feel like you really do just want to make things that people enjoy, which is rare on RUclips now. Love your work sm man ❤️
The very niche usage for marketplace line buildings is boosting trade companies share - especialy when you can trade company only part of trade node (for example Lahore with capital in India)
Regarding the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
@@LemonCake101 I don't think it's all that niche, marketplaces act as an effective way to boost your income when playing wide, since you're always using trade companies. It's a nice way to boost your income in the mid-game so you can snowball to eco hegemon. Getting about 10% more goods produced in 15 provinces in which you've already built manufactories is really worth it Imo
I like shipyards in SP if you're doing a colonizer run, so that you can run more fleets to be actively fighting in more naval theaters - e.g. fighting other colonizers to prevent access to the Americas while you're also fighting in the molucca trade node etc.
i mainly use marketplaces to get the merchant from trade companies. if you combine markets with the company depot building you don`t have to trade company as many provinces.
@@LemonCake101 if you're not building marketplaces in CoTs, and tearing them down outside of those areas, you'd still have to TC almost half of the node to get a merchant. With marketplaces in the CoTs, you can state most of the provinces and just get a merchant off the back of one or two areas per region. This also does disgusting things to the "trade companies in region" goods produced modifier for all the stated land in the node. Yes, conquering the rest of the provinces is good, but simply adding them to the trade company isn't abusing the game for money as much as possible.
@@LemonCake101the line between what people do and what is optimal is very far in this game. It’s why my TTM took 100 hours and finished in 1730 and other people play Germany to 1821.
seeing the naval stuff be so useless will never make me not upset and even more since naval history is the most interesting part of eu4's time period for me, completely fair rating for them but man good video also
Are univesities really that good for SP? By the time you get them you have already embraced 3 institutions and global trade and manus have sources of provincial growth. Enlightenment and MP are good points tho, I am not denying that.
I build marketplace in Ivory coast & Zanzibar for example if i am a "weak" european colonizer who can't really invade and conquer the node YET but i still want that extra merchant early.
I don't understand this idea of "not devving" in single player. I have 4000 hours in EU4 and maybe only 5 in MP, and I dev all the time for all sorts of reasons...
hey idk if this is for multiplayer or single because I skimmed but ramparts are so powerful in multiplayer they should be at the top of S tier, nobody with a mind gives a fuck about the attrition its the global defense roll bonus
Hi this is my first video of yours, great job. What is this about ranking every single province in the game? Wouldn't ranking different terrain types, trade nodes, and great works projects in separate videos do the exact same thing with triple the add revenue for you?
What do you think of this 'new' format? Tell me here: discord.gg/bSs2e9YsFv
I feel like there is a need for a Tier below D...
@@milleniumdragonknight4711 would be almost an insult though. Maybe if there is a good reason at some point, but I don't think any building is that bad.
really like it, it is what i as a filthy casual have been missing from the tier lists because i sadly do not have all of the game memorized
"You should ban slaves as early as possible"
"Because slavery is immoral, right?"
"No, to replace it with actually usefull tradegoods"
-Peak minmax grindset.
What can I say Eu4 made me an abolitionist
when i first encountrred that decision i was really glad. i mean moneywise, it is nice but more importantly i like being a nice colonizer and not having slave trade makes me happy
First time I've heard of a paradox game making someone a better person@@LemonCake101
@@Nothing2150have you played vic 2? slaves are awful there. they dont pay taxes!!!
remain calm.
the all provinces tierlist endures.
Lemon cake will suffer.
There is much to be done.
... why do you wish to see me suffer...
@@LemonCake101why not
@@Speedster___ I do not enjoy suffering personally. How about you go make one?
@@LemonCake101 compromise with state tier list???
@@elgirl19 That's not the best compromise, I will need a big bribe to even consider that
Actually, the description images helped me actually pay attention to the video instead of just listening to it, so it definitely helps
Thanks for letting me know!
The new added details on the buildings has made this tier lists go from great to amazing!
Glad you enjoyed them!
I was playing an Inca campaign while hearing you talk about Ramparts, and when you said they'd been nerfed I tried building one on Cuzco, and there was no problem. I also had a line of Fort+Ramparts on various mountain forts defending me from the Ottomans for my Persia campaign last patch. That nerf either never happened or was quickly reversed.
Did they reverse the nerf? Cos I remember playing MP games with that nerf live and hating the change...
It was a proposed nerf that got reversed last year, before it got implemented.
From one of the Domination dev diaries;
"Ramparts can now only be placed on terrain which is seen as “Flatland” in the game. This means it is only possible to build ramparts on farmlands, grasslands, steppes, savannahs, drylands, (coastal) deserts and coastlines." (March 21st, 2023, Balance and User Modding)
But, as said, it was reversed because it was a *very* unpopular proposal. Most every comment on the dev diary and EU4 reddit were against it. So, in the comments of the diary, Ogele said;
"With that being said, the changes to the ramparts have been rolled back for 1.35. So it will be just like in 1.34 once the patch gets released." (March 21st, 2023, Balance and User Modding)
@@7777-z7p ah good to know. I haven't used them in SP, and in MP the mods I played with removed them, so that's great news AFAIK. Yeah for that reason, they should be much higher up.
Ramparts are pretty neat to plug the holes in the mountain in Anbennar.
Building them in holds, if they are not border holds are pretty useless IMO. You can easily max out the building slots in holds, so finding a room for ramparts can be tricky.
I like it because +3 dice rolls :)
Dock is S++ tier
well it sent me to S++ tier that's for sure
Nice video. I tend to rate the trade buildings higher because of the TC region goods produced bonus. Given that they're cheaper than manufactories and affect 10~20 provinces at once, they can end up extremely powerful for their price if you do the "only TC CoT provinces" strategy.
Fair enough, although although I think that's a pretty niche strategy overall, and even then its not reliant or anything on the trade buildings: it still works well without them.
Trade companies and boosting trade power aren't niche lmao. If you don't use them you are missing out on a lot of income
Attrition really got nerfed hard when they implemented a limit back when the introduced policies.
Stacking attrition was kind of nuts back in the day having enemy armies lose over 12% of their manpower every month they're sieging you...
Yeah, without a cap that's insane
@@LemonCake101 to be fair there were a lot less modifiers to play with and stack back in the day, but it was pretty insane especially with the AI's tendency to doomstack.
@@sirjmo for sure, the amount of modifiers we have to work with these days is insane!
Another thing about forts is that they passively reduce devastation in the provinces in their zone of control. So, they're pretty good unless you're playing really, really wide.
You can use marketplaces to generate money by combaning them with trade companies. For example, if you are playing Russia and after you move your capital, you can create trade companies in Kazan and in other places. By placing a markerplace on the province of Kazan, making it a trade company, and sabotaging all other trade centers, you can increase the power of the trade company so it gives you more trade good modifier in the tradenode. So technically speaking the marketplace is generating more money indirectly from trade and production.
Regarding the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
I think you should add an F-tier just for naval batteries. The hostile fleet attrition doesn't work against someone with maritime ideas; because of the sea_repair modifier, you don't lose sailors. At least the last time I tested it, I doubt Paradox fixed it.
I would have thought so too, but a suprising amount of naval enjoyers came out to defend the naval buildings, and those as well!
I find them selectively useful, usually for something like getting Venice to repair their ships, allowing me onto their island. But that only really works on ai
I find that in singleplayer the ai becomes really hesitant to land you if you have naval batteries, thus I find them useful when playing in Indonesia/the Moluccas against colonizers since they often have way more soldiers/ships than you and you can build like 1 every state and essentially prevent blockades and landings in their entirety. Also if you build on on Cape the ai hates to move their ships that way so you can prevent Portuguese/Spanish/British/French fleets from even getting close to your region.
I mean, I find the AI hesitant to land me regardless in fairness.
Every edict in eu4 tierlist or every combat bonus (discipline, morale, shock dmg, military tactics, etc.)
Edict tier list? Could be a shout I guess, there's been a bunch added in fairness.
Market places are pretty useful to get over 50% tradeshare for the trade companies. And even after you controll all the trade in a trade region it's still pretty useful for the goodsproduced bonus you get based on the tradepower share of trade companies.
Regarding the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
haven't watched yet but I know workshop master race 💪💪
Workshop my beloved, but there is some TOUGH competition out today
It's always fun to see what people with DLC get to play with.
Full discloser I am not making any money off this suggestion but if you are on steam, consider the $5 1 month subscription, to try it out, and then do the classic humble bundle or big sail to buy all of them. I remember using that method pre subscription to get all the DLC's for around $30 total when they where on sale (and in fairness I have bought the last 6 full price on release, but then again I spend way too long playing Eu4)
if forts could deal with rebels, give suppression or triggered modifier like: 25% of dev is fortified so you get some army quality modifier it would make them more interesting
Could be something interesting to explore, but Venice's 20% dev cost on forts is a touch too strong imo.
@@LemonCake101 netherlands get 5% dev cost on forts and jumps to 10% if you complete defensive ideas, but that is half of venice's 20%. thats huge lol
Marketplaces can be used for increasing the provincial trade power in trade company provinces, thus giving more goods produced in non-trade company provinces.
In that specific build, yes actually. I just assumed it was a lot more niche then people let on.
Congrats on 10k subs! your content is amazing and you deserve them all and more!
Thank you, appreciate it, and working on it!
Anbennar Ramparts: Anbennar decided they didn't want that balance change. You can totally build ramparts in Holds, Mountains, Caves, etc.
Gor Burad (and a few others) actually have a way to add +1 die roll for defender if you invest into a province in your home region, so you can get +2 for defender added to the -2 attacker terrain, giving you an insane 4 pip advantage. Then you can mix in the Dwarven Monuments submod which is absolutely broken and gives a monument in every hold, making the holds silly to attempt to siege.
I have been informed by other comments that Paradox reverted that change, so yeah Ramparts should be a lot higher from that in fairness.
Townships give a node wide _province_ trade value bonus. If you dominate a node you should always make townships for the trade/production income.
Yes, but trade steering is the way you make the 'integer overflow' kind of money.
1.town hall is EVEN better that courthouse because it reduces province governing cost by a percentage and that means every percentage point is mor valuable
2.not something that changes the tier list but rennaissance is basically guaranteed 5% construvion cost reduction and it is so early most building are unlocked after you have it
3.production efficiency, goods produced and to an extent dev cost reductions scale up wit individual province trade good value (technically so do trade buildings in trade centers), while temples are stable
4.shipyards let you have more naval force limit which lets you mass galleys instead of heavy ships for less upkeep cost, they are also faster (but not as fast as trade ships)
5."technically" naval defense prevents piracy, which causes devastation and removes prosperity, still not worth it
6.there is an edge case use for manufactories and that is if you are close to production leader but can't easily take more in war, 10% trade good production is pretty good
7.mills is made worse by the fact it competes in manufactory slot with state house, 1 trade good of porcelain isn't worth an additional 40 dev of stated land
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong construction cost stacking good.
State house is not with porcelaine.
Its only with Gems, Paper and Glass.
I'm starting to use State Houses and I dev to 15, expand infrastructure and build both a State house and a manufactury. I end up with states costing me between 1 and 6 GC with only courthouses and not townhall.
@@phileascurtil5605 I mean the expand infra is also quite bad for gov cost for sure, but yeah I personally dev to 20 for the build slot, and then more if/when I run out of room to dev
@@LemonCake101 for gems etc it's entirely negated by the state house and if it's not on gems, it's only +5 GC and +5% so not that bad for a good increase
@@phileascurtil5605 It's not entirely negated on gems etc. You can only build one state house in a state, and there are some states which have more than one province which produces a state house good.
Thank you so much for taking audio listeners into consideration on videos where it is possible! It's great to have something like this when doing chores.
Also wanted to mention that regimental camps have the 'Growth of regimental towns' event associated with it. So even if you are totally good on force limit, you should always build one.
Similar how you should always have at least one high development province without university for the diet that gives you 35 points of each category.
No worries, I wouldn't want to ignore any of my viewers! I knew about the 'Growth of Regimental Towns' event but good to know about the 35 point of each diet, I was not actually aware that required a no uni high dev province (I mean looking back it makes a lot of sense)
Mooom Lemon Cake dropped another banger!
Enjoy!
Thanks for the images with description
Glad you enjoyed!
Your talk about naval batteries reminded me of my first game as Portugal, i was REALLY stressed out by the morrocan raids and invested All i have in naval batteries 😂
That's an incredible new person play, I have never heard of anyone doing that!
@@LemonCake101 it was one of my first trials
@@aluminiumknight4038 well, welcome to the game!
@@LemonCake101 haha thx it's been 3-4 years and now I rarely play but i enjoy youtube content
Understand shipyards but, docks there is some nations which get very good marines or where marines can be used as a second manpower pool, there docks can be good or atleast c-tier
Marketplaces can also be used in trade company provinces to increase the % modifier for trade goods
Interesting video which I enjoyed. However a lot of your ratings depend on playstyle, nation choice and game goals. I rate buildings that boost production above those that boost army size as for me money is more powerful than men.
I think forts can be very situational and depend on your countries strategical situation. Without them as France for example, it's practically impossible to fight a war against any European nation + Spain simultaneously, which can make mid game conquest into the HRE very difficult, but 2 max (for your tech) level forts buy you all the time you need to deal with arriving spanish troops
Yeah, I would say when you get bigger they become more and more necessary as a general rule
42:35 It's arithmetic overflow
It is, but I think the community refers to it as 'money stack overflowing' hence I parroted it.
It's always driven me nuts how Paradox games fail to model the importance of navies. The most powerful countries in the entire time period were naval powers, not land powers. A strong navy takes a piss poor country like Portugal and turns it to an international powerhouse. A weak navy takes a rich land power like France and turns it into a regional sideshow. Blockades brought continent-spanning empires to their knees in a matter of weeks and months while million-strong armies starved.
All it takes is A) a better trade system with emphasis on naval routes. And more importantly B) Not millions of automatic loans to cover your army.
Money as a whole is just not a
Unlike land attrition, AI actually respects naval attrition, so I kinda disagree on Naval Battery in singleplayer.
Then you are playing on land and get acsess to sea tiles, you need a lot of money in order to secure naval superority. Also, you need to fill you naval force limit with galleys or heavies, instead of building more light ship for more money.
But why wasting all that resources you can invest into more land or economy, then you can just build one Naval Battery in provinces that border 2 or more sea tiles? Once tech 14, you don't have to upgrade it. You don't have to micro it. You don't have to care about navy tradtion and reroll admirals. You don't have to spend more money on ships, then naval width increases.
Overall, one building lets you completly ignore naval side of the game (I agree with your critics about it's depth btw), unless you want to conquer some island. Which is not happening so often.
Naval battery is solid C tier.
I mean eventually if you are going to WC, you will need a navy, so don't waste building slots on Naval batteries when you can just build one of those and win: that's my approach in SP anyway.
I'm not that good at EU4 but I can't fully agree with your analyse. I think you should take in account when you unlock the building. For example courthouses are unlocked early when you may really struggle with gouverning capacity. Imo townhall is equal or below courthouse because as you said the game is almost over or you have other ways to reduce governing capacity.
Shipyard is situational, it's useful when you have a short coast but still want to have a decent fleet or when you want to repair your fleet quickly to harass the ennemy.
I like to think I did. I mean pure power wise counting houses are insane, with 100% prod efficiency, but where ranked lower then workshops and most other buildings: and I did talk about tech quite a lot regarding unlock time. Basically, I feel like I did take into account time when you unlock?
Yes you did but I feel like you underastimated it. It's quite pretentious from me to say that as I have way less experience than you but it's still my opinion.
I'm being influcenced by my ongoing game but I would put the townhall in A and put the courthouse in S.
My reflexion is: "Is this building mandatory to build when I unlock it?". S tiers is "you should always have it in every possible (or useful) province and A tiers is in some common situation or in certain builds it's a very good building.
In the cas of courthouses it's absolutely yes so S for me. In cas of the townhall it's yes but less necessary as you have some ways to not use it and still manage to go with it so A tiers. Counting houses as you said are just too late for their power so B is perfectly fine. When you are able to build them you should already be filthy rich.
Another thing: I can still build remparts in mountains in my current game so I don't know if it's a bug or it has been reversed. All my fortline has remparts even in mountains.
@@phileascurtil5605 the rampart nerf was reversed and I was unaware: yeah they are really good and should be used.
As for the building unlock it’s a subjective list at the end of the day, and well I do play quite a bit later then most. I find myself not struggling with gov cap too much in the early game, and by late game town halls are there to make it trivial hence the ranking.
As purely single player man I don't find military buildings useful. They would be most useful in the 1440s, but after the initial expansion I have enough of economy to defend myself and I build net of alliances. And if I have money I would still prefer to build production and trade building to growth the economy further. And I would I ever want to take military hegemony instead of economic one in SP?
When I said SP ranking, I was assuming World Conquest tryhard runs. If you are just chilling in Eu4, you don't need any of the buffs, well from any of the buildings, so the rankings become pointless.
I disagree about Marketplaces.
While, yes, the best way to control trade is to conquer the world, the vast majority of games are not world conquest games. So it makes sense to increase your Trade Power to propagate it and get more trade that way.
I'd say B for sure.
It's not a build in all provinces building, but just build it in your high trade power provinces.
So I clearly need to mention this in the disclaimers again, but for the ranking to make sense I have to assume you are going for a SP WC tryhard run. If you are not doing that, the ranking is inherently pointless, because in a RP campaign you will build a marketplace regardless if it provides 50% trade power, 200% trade power or 3% trade power: you are playing in a non-competitive environment. Which is fine, more then fine actually: but it also means that ranking things is pointless within that domain. I mention this in the other tier lists, and I didn't do it here today so I guess that is on me.
@@LemonCake101 Fair point.
But even then, unless you are a god of micro, you aren't going to be expanding in all directions at once.
Might be worth to build them in colonial nodes while you wait for someone to colonise the new world for you :D
@@Nerazmus I mean for SP... pause and do the micro. I mean if you cba, fair enough, but then you can't claim tryhard run.
I like temples early in SP when Catholic for the +3 pope bucks
I like building a continues coast of shipyards so its built faster when I queue up a new fleet, but yeah they aint good unless you specifically use that forcelimit to make a larger trade fleet and havent conquered enough yet to dominate trade income with provinces alone.
I mean yeah, I see it, but its just a better idea to just... conquer the land.
Love the new detail information for the tier list
Glad you enjoyed!
Race tier list next please!
Can't make a tier list of something that doesn't exist
1. Mario kart
2. Blur
3. Need for speed
4. Gran Turismo
Marketplace is good for Castile since it lets you steal more trade from your PUs
I've 7600 hours in singleplayer. This is my rankings:
S: Workshop, Courthouse, Goods Manufactories, Forts
A: Town Hall, Temple, Counting House, State House, Soldier's Households
B: University, Barracks, Training Fields, Furnace
C: Cathedral, Regimental Camp, Conscription Center, Marketplace, Trade Depot, Rampart
D: Dock, Drydock, Stock Exchange,
E: Shipyard, Grand Shipyard, Coastal Defense, Naval Battery, Impressment Offices
Logic is simply that if I were to lose complete access to a building, I'd rather lose access to something of a lower tier than a higher tier
For sure a very SP tier list, and in fairness I agree for SP. There is a lot less weight on army buildings, furnace eco etc then in a list with MP included.
@@LemonCake101 Army buildings tend to get build in clusters around areas focused around army (well manpower, anyways. Reg camps can go anywhere with slots). So for example a level 3 landlocked trade center with soldier's households and a training field and you spend a bunch of mil to dev mil up there. It's not like workshops and manufactories that get spammed everywhere.
@@TheRealXartaX I mean in MP, you basically do spam the manpower everywhere in fairness.
@@LemonCake101 I don't have multiplayer experience really. But that does seem like a waste of ducats to me unless you're playing something where expanding is extremely difficult. Like everyone playing a Japanese Daimyo or something. Of course it'll be more important than SP since a player is more likely to jump in your weakness than the AI, but spamming it everywhere seems more likely to cause a weakness due to very poor returns in low manpower provinces.
@@TheRealXartaX well, the issue is more if your not doing that you are dying to someone who is, late game wars you are losing insane troop counts (last late game war was 7 mil vs 13mil casualties) and well you need manpower and FL to fight those wars.
Banger
I would put the dock in C tier, sometimes I have sailor shortages for my huge trade fleets and my fighting fleets.
I guess if you really do, then fair, but I personally don't really encounter those issues, and they are best overcome with more conquest anyway imo.
I don't pay Multiplayer, but for me I always prioritize gov cap, production+trade, tax, manpower/sailors, and finally force limit (and forts in strategic areas). To me, workshops are far more valuable than temples in nearly every circumstance, because if you're controlling an end node or pseudo end node, you get the value of your production again as trade income, and if you aren't controlling your trade node, that should be your number one priority anyway.
No for sure, absolutely. Temples have -5% dev cost though, and can get up to 73% tax with privileges (which also stacks really well with the first age 50% tax policy)
in the end, the always correct answer is " it depends..."
Well, sometimes. Don't build Naval Batteries
I like the list, just feel like marketplace could go B maybe low A tier for most parts of Europe and the Far East. Also they can be helpful to get additional merchants in trade companys. Also for me Trade Depots could be C Tier for similar reasons, obviously both have less impact if you go for World Domination but to get you started they help alot. But again i really like the tier list overall!
Regarding the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
As for their upgrade: too late into the game for me to be impactful. By that point, your trade really should be sorted.
Shipyards should be higher because you can get a lot of Ducats in early to mid game by using lightships, especially as a tradernation like Holland
... but you can get even more by just taking over the enemies. In fact it is usually cheaper to kill them then to invest in a trade fleet.
Future me, are furnaces and universities S tier?
You know me too well
Naval force limit will give you money from trade ships or make it cheaper for you to go above the cap, navy is already expensive.
Think your completely wrong on those buildings, they are definitely A.
Sailors can be used for manpower, but still don't think they break out of C as they scale worse than manpower.
Marketplace can be pretty strong for increasing your trade companies goods produced modifier for the other provinces you have in the node.
But what does that navy achieve that taking that land over doesn't? You do need a navy for taking over say the spice islands, but owning India is going give you a lot more boat FL/Sailors then you need for those purposes: its basically never worth investing in it whether you play for a WC or a decent MP.
@@LemonCake101 Too bad you can't instantly take over everything you want.
For naval FL:
You can use trade ships to damage others economy while boosting your own trough piracy, trade steering and protecting trade.
Or if you need to build up a massive navy for a huge player war, it saves you a TON of money.
For sailors:
Some nations get marines, 5th government reform amphibious specialization, or otherwise picking naval (or the niche maritime) lets you use sailors as manpower.
Are you saying you have no use for manpower, money or your enemies to have less money?
@@Ragatokk I mean... you can? The current WR for a full WC is 1472, and there is an Ottoman save with 70% of the world done in 1466, with a 1470 projected finish. What I guess I mean with that is, at no point has investing in a navy been the optimal way of achieving your goals.
@@Ragatokk As for enemies having less manpower/money, that can again be achieved... by making your enemies not exist a lot more effectively then by annoying them with trade ships. Believe me I have played a decent chunk of MP games with naval trolling, and well, its that at best: trolling. You win everything navaly sure but you get deleted on land so you afk in the water and they afk on land. And on top of being not very effective, I also don't find that... fun?
@@LemonCake101 Never argued it was an optimal use of money, I just said it was not useless.
Is military hegemony that important still after the nerfs? You can only get it so late and the heavy investment into regimental camps, most of the time ill just go eco
You can def get it by 1550, late 1500s if you really gun for it, so I would say its worth it personally.
You did not consider the effect Light Ships can have for your economy, and how shipyards help with having more light ships.
The temple and cathedral should give -1 unrest and -2 unrest respectively in addition to the tax modifier.
Could be a decent buff to them tbh
Have I posted enough comments for your community engagement to hit maximum levels yet 😉? But seriously this channel deserves more attention than it gets.
Thanks, but AFAIK the engagement metric is 1 per person, so one comment or 10 is the same to prevent people basically abusing it by using alts. Appreciate the sentiment though!
@@LemonCake101Darn. I'll have to start collecting all my thoughts into one big comment for your videos then. Keep up the good work
33:40 That‘s indeed a huge nerf.
So much so you will be please to hear they reversed it!
Aren't trade buildings actually better because 20% of provincial trade power goes in nodes upstream? So, for example, you can spam a lot of trade building in English Channel and then have pretty good trade power in neighboring nodes. Not like this is really so much or so strong, but at least helps you to secure trade in still unconquered trade nodes
Yes. But it 'wastes' a building slot, and it is usually cheaper to just expand into those areas instead.
Worship counting houses are the best. Only manufacture I use is state house
Consider the others, they can really be quite strong!
@@LemonCake101not huge into TC and so I just spam court houses and worships. Workshops just scale the best and due to time money good in that regard as well
@@Speedster___ yeah fair, I mean workshops certainly carry a lot, but town halls+state houses do let you full core the world...
Shipyards in single player are high C tier because trace money infinite
But you shouldn't ever use it for an offensive fleet
I mean trade fleet... better to just show up with your army and take the land.
About your question on Ramparts(Anbennar Question). Since dwarf holds/surface holds are able to have ramparts
Yup, also the nerf was revoked so they can be built everywhere again!
Did they reenable building ramparts in mountains?
Yup
Hi Lemon Cake.
Thanks for this great video.
I have a question about trade power so with marketplaces as we deal about buildings here. Your point is that trade power doesn't create new money and value but as EU4 is a competitive game against your rivals and other nations, I would think that it's still interesting to have a bigger share for yourself even if the (Lemon) cake doesn't grow. You have a little more money and your opponents have less. I would think that sometimes it's even better than having more fresh money but your opponents too.
I understand that at some point in Single player, you should be able to have the full control of trade nodes with all provinces. But as conquest is not unlimited, especially early game, I guess it can often be useful to focus on COT or estuaries with marketplaces in some compétitive nodes.
When I play in single player, I always feel that marketplaces are the first and best buildings that gives me some air with money whereas temples and workshops have a long payback time. Am I that wrong ?
To be clear you are not wrong in how they work, but the same effect of more trade power for you and less for the enemy is equally achieved by... conquering the enemy. It is cheaper, and comes with more benefits.
I am pretty sure you can still build ramparts on mountains.
Yeah, they reverted that patch!
You build marketplaces to squeeze a bit more goods produced in the trade node out of your TCs
Regarding the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
Wait... marketplaces are bad?
Yes
@@LemonCake101 Where were you with this information 1800hrs of playtime ago?
@@designermetal1 my apologies, but I guess you have to play another 10k hours now!
my goat hits 10k subs easy PEASY
Believe it I am working on it!
are you sure that ramparts can only be built on flat terrain? pretty sure that all you need is an open manufactury building slot.
Used to be the case, but they changed it as a nerf :(
Played as russia and the humble shipyard is a life saver
... just conquer coastlines man!
Wait you can't build ramparts on terrain anymore? I just did yesterday
I missed that they reverted that change :)
No way is this for both single and multi player if temple is on the same tier as workshop.
Will we get a subject types tier list?
Maybe? Who knows
Having seen all the naval ones in D, I now realize you never made a stacking naval modifiers video
I did make a naval video, which lets just say I can see the analytics, and you guys didn't watch.
@@LemonCake101I did! And I appreciated it for my naval Iceland game.
@@LemonCake101
Bruh, I really haven’t seen it either in recommended or even when browsing your channel
@@g.ricepad9470 ruclips.net/video/aehyVuQGIeM/видео.html enjoy!
@@jacob2389 ah nice!
Tier list is unfinished. The best building you can have in eu4 is building relationships with your friends and new people
What tech do I get that at?
@@LemonCake101 tech 33
@@willferg7347 damn so close
Max attrition should be increased to 25%.
I don't think you can even hit that, 25% attrition just in practice removes the cap. And I tried games like that, and its awful to play. More historically accurate sure, but also significantly less fun, and it just forces you to commit to manpower building even harder. Once you have done that, it a normal game again, only the AI is even more crippled then usual.
Building a marketplace in trade company region boosts the % of trade power owned by your trade company boosting your bonus trade goods modifier in non trade company provinces in said region. It can boost your Trade goods produced by like bonus 20%. Also in recent patches there was a goverment reform added giving nations +15 flat trade power abroad. Meaning now AI actually steals your trade even if you try to create pseudo end node. In a world conquest after taking india you have to either conquer indonesia or china. Well if you do that then AI will steal your money from gujarata via zanzibar and gulf of aden sure you could conquer those regions to stop your money from being stolen, but where do you collect Venice? They steal in ragusa. Constantinople? Nope they steal to ragusa even if you own every provovince in ragusa venice and hungary. Persia? Nerfed and they also steal. Hormuz? Also they stealing. You have to make a choice do you want to have few easy wars in asia and get a lot of money with some being stolen or killing all of europe to prevent money from being stolen. Often times the first option is better, in that case marketplaces are a must not to have half of your trade income stolen.
Well, when it comes to preventing trade value being stole you can pseudo end node + conquer anyone contesting that. For the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
D is for dock.
True!
Maybe is S and A tier swapped it would be believable. Beside the barracks temple, workshop and courthouse all being the most cost effective, they all come earlier/at the right time. All S-tier come available when it doesnt matter at all any more and are only usefull for AI's.5% production efficiency with an income of 1000 ducats a month. +1 force limit if you still a 1 province minor after 50 year. Universities to decrease the development cost from 120 to a 100 . Improved courthouse 15 year before you get the +250 from l'etat c'est moy
I mean I see your point, but I tend to play pretty late for both MP and SP (especially compared to my comments it seems), and even by your own standards, well those buffs from workshops/temples etc fall off even more.
Universities are good on paper but the thing is, by the time you get them, you've already most likely developed all the provinces you wanted to dev
You have not had the joy of clicking dev for 3 points on 15/20 dev provinces :)
@@LemonCake101 the thing is you don't really wanna do that because of gov cap
What are you on? Late game devving is insane and government capacity is easily manageable with trade companies, half states, buildings, etc.
Most multiplayer lobbies nerf dev cost because it is so OP to dev for 3 cost in the late game
@@mrperson1O1 so you make development less efficient in other provinces by having higher autonomy. Also an option but instead, you could just expand and not waste monarch points on devving provinces higher than 1/10/10
@WealthyJester98 You can expand and dev, expansion should not cost many monarch points unless you are doing dumb stuff like rushing forts and taking tech way too early. Also, I only play multiplayer and very rarely is gov cap a major issue, usually buildings, reforms and estate privileges are enough to deal with it as the game goes on. I get that for singleplayer world conquests devving probably isn't as useful cause you just roll over the AI easily anyway.
So gov cap might be more important there.
Thank you :)
No worries, thanks for the suggestion!
@@LemonCake101 hope it improves your retention numbers. Your star is on the rise I remember watching red hawk videos when he was using an ai voice to narrate his vids. Keep grinding and improving and you’ll make it up there with the eu4 elite.
@@elgirl19 I can only hope, thanks for the support!
Why too many ads on this video bro. Like a ad every 2 mins your joking right?
Add every 2 min? That's insane, RUclips picks the add frequency not me. I heard there is an algorithm basically determining how 'dedicated' you are so if you are more dedicated you will click off from an add less, so congrats if that is true RUclips must think your a massive fan.
Otherwise sorry, that is pretty brutal.
@lemoncake101 you can definitely build ramparts in Anbennar mountain holds 😁⛏️⛏️
(you don't need to ping me in a first comment, I get a notification for a comment on the video directly) good to know, I hope that Dwarf mega formable missions come soon, its been a while since I've enjoyed some dwarf gameplay.
@@LemonCake101 The Aul Dwarov assembly of Holds already failed once. All hail the Absolute Monarchs under Gor Burad!
@@alexanderdavies4734 I like Ice Dwarves well up north :)
You speak too fast for the quality of your microphone. It is often hard to understand, and occasionally completely unintelligible
Me and the Mic having been battling for a while, but yeah thanks for the feedback.
@@LemonCake101It's actually not that bad 10 minutes into the video and after that. It's mainly an issue at the start
I don't think it's quite that bad
Listened to this as background noise. 11/10
Impressive, considering it was out 2 min ago and is a 44 min video. You got that forbidden x22 times playback speed!
@@LemonCake101 gotta get my trolling in where in counts ;)
@@NoahHofer understandable, have a nice day
Next: all 974 tags tier list
Please no... its an improvement over all provinces, but not a good one...
@@LemonCake101we the people demand it. You should it by region at least as like a 25k special then
@@Speedster___ please no
@@LemonCake101Do it do it do it do it
@@LemonCake101 holy order tierlist
Making pop-ups disappear is like 90% of the reason I do things in EU IV.
For sure!
I really love how you try to tailor your context presentation to how your audience prefers to consume it. It's actually incredible sweet, and makes me feel like you really do just want to make things that people enjoy, which is rare on RUclips now. Love your work sm man ❤️
Good to hear, and thank you for the support, appreciate it!
The very niche usage for marketplace line buildings is boosting trade companies share - especialy when you can trade company only part of trade node (for example Lahore with capital in India)
Regarding the trade company trade value % goods produced thing, clearly by the comments a bunch of you guys do you use, in which case fair enough, but I consider that quite niche. Furthermore, it can still be done even without the marketplace, the marketplace just gives it a little bump.
@@LemonCake101 I don't think it's all that niche, marketplaces act as an effective way to boost your income when playing wide, since you're always using trade companies. It's a nice way to boost your income in the mid-game so you can snowball to eco hegemon. Getting about 10% more goods produced in 15 provinces in which you've already built manufactories is really worth it Imo
This how i get my income when blobing, TC one state in each node and buff it up to get merchant
Coastal defenses should give +2 naval attrition coastal batteries should give an additional -1 diceroll to disembarking attackers.
That last one could be a pain to code in fairness, but a neat idea!
This video has been brought to you by Lemon 'With That Said' Cake
Its honestly becoming a catchphrase at this point. With that said though, on to other comments.
I like shipyards in SP if you're doing a colonizer run, so that you can run more fleets to be actively fighting in more naval theaters - e.g. fighting other colonizers to prevent access to the Americas while you're also fighting in the molucca trade node etc.
i mainly use marketplaces to get the merchant from trade companies. if you combine markets with the company depot building you don`t have to trade company as many provinces.
That can be true, although honestly I tend to just... conquer the rest of the provinces.
@@LemonCake101 if you're not building marketplaces in CoTs, and tearing them down outside of those areas, you'd still have to TC almost half of the node to get a merchant. With marketplaces in the CoTs, you can state most of the provinces and just get a merchant off the back of one or two areas per region.
This also does disgusting things to the "trade companies in region" goods produced modifier for all the stated land in the node. Yes, conquering the rest of the provinces is good, but simply adding them to the trade company isn't abusing the game for money as much as possible.
@@LibertyMonk within that strategy I guess it’s pretty decent, but I think it’s fair to say that is it not how most people use trade companies
@@LemonCake101the line between what people do and what is optimal is very far in this game. It’s why my TTM took 100 hours and finished in 1730 and other people play Germany to 1821.
seeing the naval stuff be so useless will never make me not upset and even more since naval history is the most interesting part of eu4's time period for me, completely fair rating for them but man
good video also
A sadness we share, boat cool. Thanks!
I use this as background noise when watching your other videos on mute.
Genius, the double Lemon Cake viewer!
The fact AI just doesn't take naval attrition... I hate it, I hate it so much. It's lost me games before.
Are univesities really that good for SP?
By the time you get them you have already embraced 3 institutions and global trade and manus have sources of provincial growth.
Enlightenment and MP are good points tho, I am not denying that.
Pretty much, I mean I do dev in SP more then the average person, but yeah no in a pure SP ranking no where near S, or even A/B tier.
I build marketplace in Ivory coast & Zanzibar for example if i am a "weak" european colonizer who can't really invade and conquer the node YET but i still want that extra merchant early.
I guess that is a fair exception.
I don't understand this idea of "not devving" in single player. I have 4000 hours in EU4 and maybe only 5 in MP, and I dev all the time for all sorts of reasons...
I mean I dev in SP, but soooooo many people don't and I have to be somewhat reflective of that reality.
You can build ramparts on mountain forts now, they reverted this change in one of the patches.
Yeah I found out from the comments, that obviously bumps them up the rankings!
hey idk if this is for multiplayer or single because I skimmed but ramparts are so powerful in multiplayer they should be at the top of S tier, nobody with a mind gives a fuck about the attrition its the global defense roll bonus
Yeah, they did reverse the change so for sure they should be higher now
Hi this is my first video of yours, great job. What is this about ranking every single province in the game? Wouldn't ranking different terrain types, trade nodes, and great works projects in separate videos do the exact same thing with triple the add revenue for you?
Please no, and welcome to the meme.