Hi everyone! My name is Bob Whitaker and I wrote this series on Cleopatra. I'm really excited to see this final episode published. This episode, focused on historiography, is the entire reason I wanted to do this series to begin with. My hope is that Episode 5 continues the discussion of why Cleo's story gets told the way that it usually gets told, and how that story has changed over time (particularly in the last couple of decades). I hope you enjoy it! Also, I've enjoyed reading your comments on the series as a whole, and I know Rob has got a Lies episode planned. Looking forward to seeing those questions as well!
I find your remarks on the "othering" most interesting. I think one such effect we had in action for much of last 70 years we have with "othering" Axis forces of WW2, with specific focus on Nazis and their leader, whose name I will not speak in fear of invoking certain internet law. But look at what defined , ironically, both sides of the Cold War... US? D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, . Britain? Their Finest Hour. Soviets? Defence of Moscow and Stalingrad and road to Berlin. Poland, whether under communist or demcratic rule? Aces in exile and resistance at home. Even the Germans themselves had put an effort to become, brand new, reformed nation willing to go to great lengths to never again become threat to peace.
There's a short story about people going to purgatory when they die, and can only move onto heaven once their name is forgotten on Earth. It's an interesting spin on afterlife myths.
@@KasumiRINA Augustus was a responsible capable leader who stayed in power the longest as the most powerful person in the world. He isn’t as famous because he spent more time on doing his work then partying.
Considering that Dante's "Inferno" is basically a self insert fan fiction where his favourite people in history guide him through hell where he sees the people he hates suffer in hell for all eternity, it was not that uncommon.
@@NewtypeCommander It does, and quite shamelessly, which sort of makes this idea that it was actually about Cleopatra and Augustus totally daft. The entire bit with Dido is practically lifted from Odysseus and Circe. I doubt Homer was writing about Cleopatra almost 1000 years before she was born.
@@NewtypeCommander Virgil wrote the tale of Aeneid using the same poetic style but, unlike Homer, Virgil traveled through the lands to gather as much history as possible and be able to tell the story as accurately as possible (something The Illiad isn't so good at) so, no, copying elements doesn't make it worse.
@@LuccianoBartolini well, surely. But also Virgil wasn't totally happy with the masterpiece that made him remembered. As far as I remember, he considered it unfinished and asked for it to be destroyed when he died.
Joke's on you, I seen the movie with Liz Taylor and Richard Burton BEFORE the cartoon and film version of Asterix... she does have a pretty nose though.
I feel like the average person has heard of Caesar Augustus considering the whole month of August is named after him. He should be part of the VIP club.
Honestly, general public do know cleopatra more. At the second you go to more history oriented persons, it may not be true. As emperors go, Nero is more known and iconic out of history circles than augustus. It is a shame, but true. When I was younger, I knew Cesar, Cleopatra, Alexendre and Jesus.... Not augustus.
Augustus is more like the shadow who swallows them all. Once learning a bit about Augustus, which is more unlikely, you realize that he bested every single one of these other characters.
My fondest memories involving Cleopatra are stomping her into the dirt as Trajan in Civ 6 when she starts insulting my military and trying to pick a fight. XD
@Some Weeb because of the nature of Civ, not all leaders can be from the same era as some cultures didn't exist yet, but Rome vs Egypt is an ancient grudge match that gets more satisfying if you're not the instigator but are military superior.
I didn't know about any of these people before I got into history, but I definitely knew about Julius Ceasar and Cleopatra. I suspect that many people who are not history buffs are the same.
@@jacoblevenson7934 The legend existed beforehand, but this specific version of the legend was commissioned by Octavian. And Virgil inserted subtle passive-aggressive jabs at Octavian all throughout the text.
What do you mean? You say UHoR was NOT a well researched documentary? What else are you going to say, Cleopatra wasnt a reincarnation of Dido and a witch and Hannibal wasnt handcrafted by gods to challenge romans?
Going for literal meanings, Dovah's work is A LOT well researched. I mean, the whole point of the series was doing a good research and only presenting what we wanted to hear and changing some events...
I wanted a Extra History on the Red Baron, because I thought I already knew everything there was about Cleopatra... You more than proved me wrong! This is one of your Extra History series I will revisiting again and again over the next few years! Great Job EH Team!
EC : "the list of peoples reminded from that long ago is super short" *** show 5 people *** Pythagoras, Aristotle, Euclide and other known Greeks: surprised Pikachu face
to be fair, they are a lot less known or remembered by the average people. Well known by mathematicians sure , but if you don't have that kind of education, you will forget about them in 5 years after high school very likely.
@@hey1193 maybe but personally I knew Pythagoras and Aristotle (maybe not Euclid) before Cleopatra and even Alexander the Great, or at least from what I remember, and it's the same thing with my entourage. But yes you're probably right.
Cleopatra is, I think, the only Ruler that did not need scholars to write her story. Instead, she had others, uninvolved and far from the real source write it for her. That is absolutely legendary.
I really miss the old extra credits , I feel like there are more mature stance , jokes are great and it’s good because you have a younger audience now but I like something important was lost .
"Groups define who they are, by defining who they are not; and singling out some other groups they consider to be thier opposite." Not much has changed since Cleopatra's time huh?
Congrats you are one step away from realizing all humans have always been exactly the same, just our toys have changed. All humans are lazy. All humans fear what they do not inherently have an opinion upon. All humans seek confirmation biases. All humans will blame the next generation for the change while the next generation will blame the previous for the problems and nobody will be satisfied and then when the last are gone the new will be the old and the next cycle begins anew
Sup player, I think by 'ancient' they're actually referring to an actual period in history referred to as 'ancient' or 'antiquity,' which is like from everything since Mesopotamia up until the fall of Western Rome up 400CE-ish or the birth of Islam around 600CE or something like that.
Plus he also started one of the most famous Empires the world has ever seen, and remains one of, if not the most famous Emperor of said Empire. By contrast, Cleopatra is mostly only known for fighting and losing to Augustus.
I love your Chanel and the historic accuracy you put in your videos every time a new video comes out! Thank you for being the awesome Chanel you guys are!
It occurs to me that something similar happened to Vercingetorix and Arminius, though on a much smaller scale. They gained a popular memory as the greatest gallic and germanic rulers of the ancient world because they and their unlettered civilizations were defeated by the lettered Romans who wanted their fallen enemies to look that formidable to posterity. Though both were eventually defeated, nearly two millennia later Vercingetorix was raised in stone at Alesia and Arminius (who was also re-dubbed to the germanized name Herman) in iron at Teutonburg by french and german nationalists respectively
He also started one of the most famous Empires of all time and is the most famous Emperor of said Empire. He also has a month named after him. Cleopatra, by contrast, is mostly only really known for fighting Augustus and losing to him.
This whole series has honestly been a massive step down in quality... It’s almost as much conjecture as it is fact, there’s been numerous factual errors, and probably the most blatant example of bending the story to wrap around Cleopatra... This whole thing feels more like the EC team is just trying to show us how cool their favorite comic book character is than it it feels like a honest portrayal of a historical figure...
I don't necessarily see it as a historical story, I see it more as a take on this history from a different perspective. It may be a shitty one, but one nonetheless.
@@SEAZNDragon But that isn't a good excuse when Historia Civilis and Dovahhatty put out two excellent video series on this topic and didn't stretch the truth or outright lie to fit their Mary Sue anime waifu agenda that this series clearly is.
There is another way to achieve fame: For somebody even more famous to be obsessed with you. Napoleon wanting and trying to emulate his hero Alexander the Great have him a big boost in world history awareness. That's certainly not to say he'd not have been a famous figure without Napoleon, but it's something to think about.
4:08 OK, this is as far I can watch before stopping and commenting, because you are sorely wrong about Virgil and the Aenid. First off, it wasn't commissioned, Virgil wanted to see if there was a connection between the Trojans and the Romans, which is why he traveled through former Phoenician lands, Greece and Italy to investigate and research with as much first hand accounts as possible, and make the story as accurate as possible. Secondly, the reason why we know of The Aeneids isn't because of Octavian or Virgil, but rather, because of Virgil's friends. Virgil died, from disease, before finishing The Aeneid and his last wish was for his book to be destroyed, should he die before finishing it, and his friends, instead, preferred to finish the work and publish it, which is why we know of it today. You are literally making a claim with no real evidence and, clearly, not even reading the book because Aeneid was on former Phoenicia and, when leaving, the princess makes a curse that her descendants (Phoenicia) would fight Aeneids' descendants (Rome) which was a way to make an allegory of the future Punic Wars, not "Octavian rejecting Cleopatra" so, please, don't try to use the last work made by Virgil as an excuse to say that Octavian was obsessed with Cleopatra. Also, there are multiple characters form ancient history known by the public. People also know about Hannibal, King David, Samson, etc. And they are well known not because of the propaganda back then, but because people today popularize them. Boy, was this take so wrong.
Literally all researches and teachers I heard said how Aeneid was a prime example of propaganda piece to justify autocracy to people who grew up in a Republic. If you have your alternate version, throwing phrases like "historically accurate" around, the burden of proof is on you. Literally wikipedia: "Virgil took the disconnected tales of Aeneas's wanderings, his vague association with the foundation of Rome and his description as a personage of no fixed characteristics other than a scrupulous pietas, and fashioned the Aeneid into a compelling founding myth or national epic that tied Rome to the legends of Troy, explained the Punic Wars, glorified traditional Roman virtues, and legitimized the Julio-Claudian dynasty as descendants of the founders, heroes, and gods of Rome and Troy..." Try reading Shakespeare, you'll find his plays are not even trying to hide they are commissioned to glorify things the Tudors (Richard II & Henrys), Scotland (MacBeth), and monarchy over democracy (Coriolanus). Vergil wasn't some perfect unbiased author in a vacuum, he also worked for the state.
@@uria3679 That isn't strange, a video has to be extremely polarizing to get more dislikes than likes, having a bad take (IMO) isn't enough to warrant that.
I don't want to be that guy but: www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.ancient-literature.com/rome_vergil.html%23:~:text%3DVergil%2520was%2520commissioned%2520by%2520the,Rome%2520and%2520the%2520Roman%2520people.%26text%3DHowever%252C%2520incomplete%2520or%2520not%252C%2520%25E2%2580%259C,grandeur%2520of%2520the%2520Roman%2520Empire.&ved=2ahUKEwjY5JbC-83sAhXkRBUIHdPTAVwQFjAFegQIChAF&usg=AOvVaw2fkDbwPDoyZhU9TMJ8UNYn&cshid=1603568195440 and www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.berfrois.com/2017/08/virgil-commissioned-augustus-write-aeneid/&ved=2ahUKEwjY5JbC-83sAhXkRBUIHdPTAVwQFjAOegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw0M2e3f9yP7cmaSrguhcg6P&cshid=1603568195440
Both of the sources clearly state that Octavia commissioned the Aeneid. It is also said the only reason his work wasn't destroyed is because Octavia countered Virgil's will. I do agree that more characters like Hannibal are well known. But I disagree with everything else.
The key distinction you may be missing is that she was an *agent* of temptation, rather than an object. Her role in both of those seductions was an active rather than a passive one.
@@timcroft9223 wow, what a great distinction. Completely changes everything. It totally isn’t like....the idea that she used her body for political power still stands, except you said what I said with a different word that doesn’t exactly change the meaning of what I said, because an object, by its very definition, doesn’t have to assume a passive role, and I never said she took a passive role because that isn’t historically accurate. Cleopatra knew very well what she was doing and it wasn’t like she stumbled upon Julius Caesar or Mark Antony. She knew the power they held and she wanted to be able to wield it. She ensured that she portrayed herself in a waypoint then in a way that would tempt them and she got very lucky as both Julius Caesar and Mark Antony were notorious for being quite lustful so tempting them wasn’t that hard.
@@justinpolanco5046 " she used her body for political power " why not the other way around?.. Why do you think women are seducing men, and not men like Antony are getting into bedroom of the Pharaoh, a living goddess', to have a shot on ruling the world, eh?.. DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK MEN DIDN'T MARRY FOR POLITICAL REASONS?! Marc did that at least twice. Officially. That's how politics worked back then. Am not even talking about the other Marc Anthony who married J-Lo.))) Your perspective is skewed by your chauvinism. Also, it's ironic how men think of a perfect seductress with a body count of literally TWO MEN, the second only after the first guy died. Like, how insecure are you guys?! XD
Ah I see what you mean. A conqueror may be a military leader, but that isn’t quite equivalent to a ruler who must lead a country... But there should still be quite a few great rulers whose primary flaw was that they couldn’t imagine a world without them, and things fell apart after they died.
At Precisely 8:29 , a u.f.o hieroglyph suddenly appearing in beam of flashlight over Cleopatras' head woulda been fuuuuunnnny. Good episode. ..as all these are.
The questions of Cleo = Dido has always fascinated me, as did the placement of Dido in Carthage as a mythological way to explain the Punic Wars. We believe these myths are centuries old, and pre-date the historical Cleopatra and Punic Wars. I have always wondered what those myths predating the historical event looked like. I suspect that they do not survive/never existed, or only exist based on extrapolation and interpretation of art since any such written source would have been gold and assigned to every undergrad reading Virgil, and I've been through a whole classics undergrad program without seeing such a source.
okay now I need a Hamilton series or a one-shot parody of the musical. but 4 real, tho, Cleopatra is one of my historical faves, this series was great!
That is what happens when you make a point of using information purely written by women instead of focusing on the most credible sources, regardless of sex
Its poetic how the person who wanted to get rid of her, made Cleopatra one of the most famous people, much more so than Octavian himself outside those interested in history.
So what I'm getting here is that Cleopatra killed herself because of a misunderstanding of Octavian's intentions. The version I heard was that she didn't want to be part of Octavian's triumph, but if the Aneid reflects Octavian genuinely pining after her, than he may have been having the same ideas she was about dynasty establishment. The extra ironic thing is that even if she knew Octavian might have been looking to make her the queen of the whole Mediterranean world at his side, she might have still killed herself instead because I'm pretty sure that by that point she also just personally hated Octavian. Given roman imperial history after Augustus' reign ended though, it does make you wonder what would have happened if instead of the Julio-Claudians, Rome's first dynasty was the Caesarion dynasty, given how he rose to power, Octavian could probably be persuaded to bump his adopted half brother (as well as the safety of Marc Anthony's kids with her maybe just letting them move out to the estate aunty Arsinoe was chilling at) for succession after his death in exchange for Cleopatra's hand.
hilarious Octavian many times proved he never forgot how young he was when first gripped by the desires of empire the fates of ceasarion and aggripa posthumus might serve as an example (sadly) I know his whole thing was he couldn't find a successor Stil he always made sure to close the door on usurpers, man, woman and child alike Cleopatra never had a chance
Hold on, what about people like King Tut, Ramses II, Leonidas I, Cyrus the Great, Darius the Great, or Herod? Are they not remembered today? EDIT: Also Herodotus, Moses, Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle
8:12 I definitely suggest checking out the documentaries she is a part of, especially those on MagellanTV. They are amazing and teach/show you a whole lot about the Roman world that you might not already know.
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Hi everyone! My name is Bob Whitaker and I wrote this series on Cleopatra. I'm really excited to see this final episode published. This episode, focused on historiography, is the entire reason I wanted to do this series to begin with. My hope is that Episode 5 continues the discussion of why Cleo's story gets told the way that it usually gets told, and how that story has changed over time (particularly in the last couple of decades). I hope you enjoy it! Also, I've enjoyed reading your comments on the series as a whole, and I know Rob has got a Lies episode planned. Looking forward to seeing those questions as well!
Thanks for some good content
Love your vids so informative but funny at the same time its brilliant
Thank you for the series, you did a great job!
I find your remarks on the "othering" most interesting. I think one such effect we had in action for much of last 70 years we have with "othering" Axis forces of WW2, with specific focus on Nazis and their leader, whose name I will not speak in fear of invoking certain internet law. But look at what defined , ironically, both sides of the Cold War... US? D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, . Britain? Their Finest Hour. Soviets? Defence of Moscow and Stalingrad and road to Berlin. Poland, whether under communist or demcratic rule? Aces in exile and resistance at home. Even the Germans themselves had put an effort to become, brand new, reformed nation willing to go to great lengths to never again become threat to peace.
ur an excellent writer!!
I can’t believe Augustus wrote wish fulfillment fan fiction
*Commissioned*
Holy shet he's fandom trash like us omg
@@callmeanon660 LMAO
@@callmeanon660 us?
@@Julianna.Domina, yes. 'Us' does not have to mean 'You'.
I sincerely hope the cheeky Walpole jokes NEVER stop popping up in Extra History.
When?
@@GioPotatoes 1:48
Agreed
Amen!!!
Never EVER
I noticed you drew Virgil as rolling his eyes at Octavian. Nice historical reference
Virgil: "Where's your motivation?"
"They say a man dies twice, first upon their death, second when their name is spoken for the last time"
Then Cleopatra has bested all of the Pharaohs.
GNU Terry Pratchett
@@viscountbp Don't know man, Tutankamon is pretty famous too.
There's a short story about people going to purgatory when they die, and can only move onto heaven once their name is forgotten on Earth.
It's an interesting spin on afterlife myths.
in this case it is woman
"Romans before Womans"
~Aeneid, page 135
what are you, pontius pilate?
Can be interpreted as "Don't be a simp. Work on yourself and your empire."
@@JamesJJSMilton women I guess there ain't womans n ya woman's too
Glad that the patient snake got to play his scene.
69th like
Patient??
Oh wow, i must google "how to handle fame" now.
@@intrepid. yeah he didnt bite anyone when he was told to wait
"Cleopatra didnt need to build a pyramid, for her monuments are all around us" is such an awesome, beautiful line. Kinda made me tear up 🥲
Octavian: She was wild seductress who damned two of our best leaders!
Everyone today: Yass, Queen, yass!
The mob is fickle...
This series definitely doesn’t play into that for no reason than not to be impartial
@@spiko1755 literally nobody roots for Octavian, he's BOOORING. Antony knew how to PAAARTAY, and so did Ceasar and Cleo!
@@KasumiRINA Augustus did nothing wrong
@@KasumiRINA Augustus was a responsible capable leader who stayed in power the longest as the most powerful person in the world. He isn’t as famous because he spent more time on doing his work then partying.
So basically, Octavian just wants to say: "Don't be a simp."
"Do not look at her. Tits are temporary. Rome is forever."
@@heresy8384 Umm thats a different moral but ok
@@luiscraft3845 But it's the best moral. Ave!
@@heresy8384 lmao
@@heresy8384 they're only temporary if you live longer than the body decomposes
So you're telling me Octavian commissioned Virgil to write a self-insert OC fanfic of his own fantasy that somehow had Cleopatra. Seems right
It's worse than that, The Aeneid copies elements of both The Odyssey and The Iliad.
Considering that Dante's "Inferno" is basically a self insert fan fiction where his favourite people in history guide him through hell where he sees the people he hates suffer in hell for all eternity, it was not that uncommon.
@@NewtypeCommander It does, and quite shamelessly, which sort of makes this idea that it was actually about Cleopatra and Augustus totally daft. The entire bit with Dido is practically lifted from Odysseus and Circe. I doubt Homer was writing about Cleopatra almost 1000 years before she was born.
@@NewtypeCommander Virgil wrote the tale of Aeneid using the same poetic style but, unlike Homer, Virgil traveled through the lands to gather as much history as possible and be able to tell the story as accurately as possible (something The Illiad isn't so good at) so, no, copying elements doesn't make it worse.
@@LuccianoBartolini well, surely. But also Virgil wasn't totally happy with the masterpiece that made him remembered. As far as I remember, he considered it unfinished and asked for it to be destroyed when he died.
Netflix only wishes their Cleopatra series was this good.
BWahahahah!
@@extrahistoryDid You Want To Make Cleopatra Season 2?
Hardest thing for tech companies to learn is that sometimes you have to ignore the algorithm/AI.
Dido: just want to love Aeneas after her husband died
Aeneas: *B E G O N E T H O T*
Based
Dovahhatty?
Based
I'd go easy on Aeneas. It's not easy having the *GODDESS OF LOVE, BEAUTY, AND SEX* as his mother.
Fun Fact: the person who wrote that book wasn’t that much of a fan of Octavian (try to contain your surprise)
Everyone knows Cleopatra is only popular because of "Asterix and Obelix: Mission Cleopatra"
(Joke)
Literally first time I heard of her
Impressive nose tho
EXACTLY.
Joke's on you, I seen the movie with Liz Taylor and Richard Burton BEFORE the cartoon and film version of Asterix... she does have a pretty nose though.
@@KasumiRINA 😂
I feel like the average person has heard of Caesar Augustus considering the whole month of August is named after him. He should be part of the VIP club.
Bah! He just has a month in Cleo's calendar.
Honestly, general public do know cleopatra more. At the second you go to more history oriented persons, it may not be true. As emperors go, Nero is more known and iconic out of history circles than augustus. It is a shame, but true. When I was younger, I knew Cesar, Cleopatra, Alexendre and Jesus.... Not augustus.
Yeah, but most people don’t know why the months or days of the week are named that way
Most people don’t even know that January is named after the Roman god of change Janus.
Augustus is more like the shadow who swallows them all.
Once learning a bit about Augustus, which is more unlikely, you realize that he bested every single one of these other characters.
My fondest memories involving Cleopatra are stomping her into the dirt as Trajan in Civ 6 when she starts insulting my military and trying to pick a fight. XD
@Some Weeb because of the nature of Civ, not all leaders can be from the same era as some cultures didn't exist yet, but Rome vs Egypt is an ancient grudge match that gets more satisfying if you're not the instigator but are military superior.
"Cleopatra lived on in memory unlike others except these 5 guys"
Octavian, Brutus and Antony: Are we jokes to you?
I didn't know about any of these people before I got into history, but I definitely knew about Julius Ceasar and Cleopatra. I suspect that many people who are not history buffs are the same.
@@sukesshvelusamy6295 That's fucking sad man.
@@isabelrodriguezsjolund9701 I mean, ancient history is cool, but, unless you're a historian, is not really useful for much besides entertainment
@@chaoky Entertainment wise I'd imagine Gladiator and 300 are currently more popular than Shakespeare or Elizabeth Taylor's Cleopatra.
But it's true that A LOT OF PEOPLE know more about Cleopatra than Octavian, Brutus or Anthony
Virgil actuwlly really didn't like augustus, which is why aeneas is said to be great, but is really not that great.
The text seems to take some jabs at the fact he abandons Dido
And makes you read between the lines like he was being babied by Aphrodite
t. gr*ek revisionist
Virgil's gotta go down as one of the most passive aggressive people in history.
In contrast with Odysseus who is level-headed and heroic in most situations, Aeneas often comes across as weak, indecisive or plain lost.
So, Octavian had Virgil write a Cleopatra x reader fic?
It's a theory but not confirmed. The legend existed before hand so it might be ec making a theory come off as fact.
@@jacoblevenson7934 The legend existed beforehand, but this specific version of the legend was commissioned by Octavian. And Virgil inserted subtle passive-aggressive jabs at Octavian all throughout the text.
Cleopatra x Disney
Since ancient statues in rome and greece were actually painted colorifuly, what is said at 0:33 makes more sense.
Well this is true in general, but as he said Octavian went to a live reporesentation of her meaning he might have broke this code in the sculpture.
"Lifelike statues" reminds me of the Gorgon Legend.
Also, colored Roman statues were SUPER ugly.
@@cirthador1453 Don't automatically take the modern reconstructions as 100% accurate.
Can I just say, I love so much how you guys visually represented Cleopatra. Thank you
You mean... Wrongly?
"Assassins and microtransactions"
OK, that name does sound kinda cool. Probably wouldn't be a big seller though if they actually called a game that.
Well, try pulling Cleopatra in Fate Grand Order with THEIR rates, and suddenly, Ubisoft aren't even AS greedy... >_>
"Assassin's Greed"
This entire series makes the Unbiased History of Rome look like a well researched documentary
Wait, you say that the Unbiased History of Rome isn´t a well researched documentary?
What do you mean? You say UHoR was NOT a well researched documentary? What else are you going to say, Cleopatra wasnt a reincarnation of Dido and a witch and Hannibal wasnt handcrafted by gods to challenge romans?
@@АртурЧугай The Hannibal part is pretty believable if ask me 🤣
Going for literal meanings, Dovah's work is A LOT well researched. I mean, the whole point of the series was doing a good research and only presenting what we wanted to hear and changing some events...
Based and Romepilled
Walpole kicked out of the VIP area. Don't worry Walpole, we will remember what you did, everything you did.
wait you posted the coment 8h ago and the video was posted 30sec ago wtf
wait.... 8 hours?
@@silverphoenix7490 patreon supporters get to see it first.
@@silverphoenix7490 Patrons get to see videos early.
I wanted a Extra History on the Red Baron, because I thought I already knew everything there was about Cleopatra...
You more than proved me wrong! This is one of your Extra History series I will revisiting again and again over the next few years! Great Job EH Team!
Tyrion: And who has a better story than Bran th-
Extra history: CLEOPATRA
Literally every-fucking-one else
@@josue_mejia you've got some carthagian amounts of salt over cleopatra.
@@cageybee7221 Oh, no, no, I mean Bran. Almost everyone has a better story than Bran.
You can't have "All's fair in love and war" without love AND war. There is no point in trying to set the two apart if she dealt in both intertwined.
RIP the homies: Saladin, Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I, Shakespeare, Ghengis Khan, Leif Erikson
Also Charlemagne, Louis XIV and Ragnar Lodbrok.
Do you mean William Wallace, Joan of Arc, Saladin, Ghengis Khan and Barbarossa?
But like, what did Shakespeare do? Why is he more important than Charlemagne, Trajan, etc.
He said from the ancient world. Elizabeth 1, not ancient. Joan of arc, not ancient etc. Etc. Etc.
Literally all of those people lived 1000 or more years after Cleopatra did, not comparable id say
1:35 - Hannibal Barca is crying in the corner....
His name is nowhere near a common household name as the others.
@@cometmoon4485 your household sounds boring
A series on Augustus and the early Principate would be interesting
EC : "the list of peoples reminded from that long ago is super short" *** show 5 people ***
Pythagoras, Aristotle, Euclide and other known Greeks: surprised Pikachu face
to be fair, they are a lot less known or remembered by the average people. Well known by mathematicians sure , but if you don't have that kind of education, you will forget about them in 5 years after high school very likely.
I think he meant the ones in the early 1st millennium CE.
@@hey1193 maybe but personally I knew Pythagoras and Aristotle (maybe not Euclid) before Cleopatra and even Alexander the Great, or at least from what I remember, and it's the same thing with my entourage. But yes you're probably right.
@@ryotanada Alexander the Great was born in 356BC and was tutored by Aristotle, so... No
How could anyone forget the pythagorian theorem
Cleopatra is, I think, the only Ruler that did not need scholars to write her story. Instead, she had others, uninvolved and far from the real source write it for her.
That is absolutely legendary.
I really miss the old extra credits , I feel like there are more mature stance , jokes are great and it’s good because you have a younger audience now but I like something important was lost .
@The Martial Lord of Loyalty No one would watch extra history without the jokes. However the history should be the focus, not the jokes
"Groups define who they are, by defining who they are not; and singling out some other groups they consider to be thier opposite." Not much has changed since Cleopatra's time huh?
Congrats you are one step away from realizing all humans have always been exactly the same, just our toys have changed.
All humans are lazy.
All humans fear what they do not inherently have an opinion upon.
All humans seek confirmation biases.
All humans will blame the next generation for the change while the next generation will blame the previous for the problems and nobody will be satisfied and then when the last are gone the new will be the old and the next cycle begins anew
@@druid_zephyrus you are one of the many people that are searching for immortality that I’ve been told about
Nope! Such is the way of the world!
If Octavian were such a simp for Cleopatra he should have just told her
Rome before hoes
I'd love to see a series about my grandpa Kim Il-sung and his rise to power
Im not sure youd approve of its contents, o great leader
At about 5:10 narrator says "welllll..." and video goes IMMEDIATELY into a non-skippable ad. Perfect timing. 🤣
I just watched the first 4 Cleopatra's yesterday, what awesome timing
just gonna use this early comment to thank the extra credits team for all their hard work, your videos are always the absolute best !
In the list of people from ancient times who we still remember, they forgot Queen Elizabeth II.
Sup player, I think by 'ancient' they're actually referring to an actual period in history referred to as 'ancient' or 'antiquity,' which is like from everything since Mesopotamia up until the fall of Western Rome up 400CE-ish or the birth of Islam around 600CE or something like that.
I think that kind of disqualifies her as being remembered, don't you think?
@@ddobefaest9334 Exactly: Everybody knows she's been alive since long before then, because she's immortal.
Is she ancient??? You should look up her dates of birth and death to better understand why she was not included.
Thank you for giving Cleopatra the treatment she deserves. After thousands of years...
This was one of my favourite extra history series. Thanks for giving us a more modern telling of her story
I see what you did there with the Hamilton reference even with the logo that lit my day right up
I'd say Augustus earned his spot with those remembered as well.
I've yet to meet an adult who hasn't heard his name at least once.
Yeah like, we have a month named after him.
Plus he also started one of the most famous Empires the world has ever seen, and remains one of, if not the most famous Emperor of said Empire.
By contrast, Cleopatra is mostly only known for fighting and losing to Augustus.
I love your Chanel and the historic accuracy you put in your videos every time a new video comes out! Thank you for being the awesome Chanel you guys are!
It occurs to me that something similar happened to Vercingetorix and Arminius, though on a much smaller scale. They gained a popular memory as the greatest gallic and germanic rulers of the ancient world because they and their unlettered civilizations were defeated by the lettered Romans who wanted their fallen enemies to look that formidable to posterity. Though both were eventually defeated, nearly two millennia later Vercingetorix was raised in stone at Alesia and Arminius (who was also re-dubbed to the germanized name Herman) in iron at Teutonburg by french and german nationalists respectively
I love the shade at the shady and manipulative business tactics :D
"with microtransactions"
I love you.
I would argue that Octavian or better Augustus is as well remembered as the other VIPs.
He was the Pater Patriae after all.
He also started one of the most famous Empires of all time and is the most famous Emperor of said Empire. He also has a month named after him.
Cleopatra, by contrast, is mostly only really known for fighting Augustus and losing to him.
Exactly! But maybe I'm a little biased: I'm Roman myself and Augustus is one of my favourite emperors.
I kinda hate August and summer btw 😂
Julius and Augustus are typically combine in people's memories or Julius is more famous.
Not at all
@@donrog5035 No.
This whole series has honestly been a massive step down in quality...
It’s almost as much conjecture as it is fact, there’s been numerous factual errors, and probably the most blatant example of bending the story to wrap around Cleopatra...
This whole thing feels more like the EC team is just trying to show us how cool their favorite comic book character is than it it feels like a honest portrayal of a historical figure...
I blame that on sources. Kinda hard to be objective when the sources are not.
I really enjoyed this series titled "Cleopatra" following the tale of Cleopatra. What factual errors are there?
I don't necessarily see it as a historical story, I see it more as a take on this history from a different perspective. It may be a shitty one, but one nonetheless.
@@SEAZNDragon But that isn't a good excuse when Historia Civilis and Dovahhatty put out two excellent video series on this topic and didn't stretch the truth or outright lie to fit their Mary Sue anime waifu agenda that this series clearly is.
Pontifex Maximus!!!!!!!!!
How do we explain the popularity of cleopatra today?
Weeeell...
*music starts playing*
Luscious hair, feeling freshly styled!
Perfect ad placement 😂😂😂
There is another way to achieve fame: For somebody even more famous to be obsessed with you. Napoleon wanting and trying to emulate his hero Alexander the Great have him a big boost in world history awareness. That's certainly not to say he'd not have been a famous figure without Napoleon, but it's something to think about.
I've always wondered why I remember Cleopatra, but don't remember a single thing that she did. Now I know why.
I follow you guys about a 2 year right now. How incredible is this channel. Thanks for your works!
I always look forward for these videos every week
There was one week you forgot
Thanks so much for posting this series! Would you please considering making one about Peter the Great of Russia? 🙏
They have one on the great northern war which includes Peter in it
Learning more from your vids than i've learned in my 43 years... And makes me want to play Civilization every time.
4:08 OK, this is as far I can watch before stopping and commenting, because you are sorely wrong about Virgil and the Aenid.
First off, it wasn't commissioned, Virgil wanted to see if there was a connection between the Trojans and the Romans, which is why he traveled through former Phoenician lands, Greece and Italy to investigate and research with as much first hand accounts as possible, and make the story as accurate as possible.
Secondly, the reason why we know of The Aeneids isn't because of Octavian or Virgil, but rather, because of Virgil's friends. Virgil died, from disease, before finishing The Aeneid and his last wish was for his book to be destroyed, should he die before finishing it, and his friends, instead, preferred to finish the work and publish it, which is why we know of it today.
You are literally making a claim with no real evidence and, clearly, not even reading the book because Aeneid was on former Phoenicia and, when leaving, the princess makes a curse that her descendants (Phoenicia) would fight Aeneids' descendants (Rome) which was a way to make an allegory of the future Punic Wars, not "Octavian rejecting Cleopatra" so, please, don't try to use the last work made by Virgil as an excuse to say that Octavian was obsessed with Cleopatra.
Also, there are multiple characters form ancient history known by the public. People also know about Hannibal, King David, Samson, etc. And they are well known not because of the propaganda back then, but because people today popularize them.
Boy, was this take so wrong.
Literally all researches and teachers I heard said how Aeneid was a prime example of propaganda piece to justify autocracy to people who grew up in a Republic. If you have your alternate version, throwing phrases like "historically accurate" around, the burden of proof is on you. Literally wikipedia:
"Virgil took the disconnected tales of Aeneas's wanderings, his vague association with the foundation of Rome and his description as a personage of no fixed characteristics other than a scrupulous pietas, and fashioned the Aeneid into a compelling founding myth or national epic that tied Rome to the legends of Troy, explained the Punic Wars, glorified traditional Roman virtues, and legitimized the Julio-Claudian dynasty as descendants of the founders, heroes, and gods of Rome and Troy..."
Try reading Shakespeare, you'll find his plays are not even trying to hide they are commissioned to glorify things the Tudors (Richard II & Henrys), Scotland (MacBeth), and monarchy over democracy (Coriolanus). Vergil wasn't some perfect unbiased author in a vacuum, he also worked for the state.
And yet this video has more likes than dislikes
@@uria3679 That isn't strange, a video has to be extremely polarizing to get more dislikes than likes, having a bad take (IMO) isn't enough to warrant that.
I don't want to be that guy but: www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.ancient-literature.com/rome_vergil.html%23:~:text%3DVergil%2520was%2520commissioned%2520by%2520the,Rome%2520and%2520the%2520Roman%2520people.%26text%3DHowever%252C%2520incomplete%2520or%2520not%252C%2520%25E2%2580%259C,grandeur%2520of%2520the%2520Roman%2520Empire.&ved=2ahUKEwjY5JbC-83sAhXkRBUIHdPTAVwQFjAFegQIChAF&usg=AOvVaw2fkDbwPDoyZhU9TMJ8UNYn&cshid=1603568195440 and www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.berfrois.com/2017/08/virgil-commissioned-augustus-write-aeneid/&ved=2ahUKEwjY5JbC-83sAhXkRBUIHdPTAVwQFjAOegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw0M2e3f9yP7cmaSrguhcg6P&cshid=1603568195440
Both of the sources clearly state that Octavia commissioned the Aeneid. It is also said the only reason his work wasn't destroyed is because Octavia countered Virgil's will. I do agree that more characters like Hannibal are well known. But I disagree with everything else.
when you briefly mentioned "the other" I realized that is the role Jews have sadly been put in many times throughout history
The Evangelical and far-right portrayal of Muslims in the Western world came to my mind too
@@______608 Do you not see the irony in accusing certain groups of being uniquely bad at othering?
moral of the story: dont be a simp
Ironically, there's like 10 seconds in this video that's the best and most faithful to the source material batman film since...well ever I guess.
Wonderfully done! Loved these stories of her life! Brilliant, cunning, cutthroat. That's how I think of Cleopatra ❤
Well, Cleopatra certainly didn’t try to not portray herself as an object of temptation by seducing two powerful Romans back to back.
The key distinction you may be missing is that she was an *agent* of temptation, rather than an object.
Her role in both of those seductions was an active rather than a passive one.
@@timcroft9223 stop agentifying women
@@timcroft9223 wow, what a great distinction. Completely changes everything. It totally isn’t like....the idea that she used her body for political power still stands, except you said what I said with a different word that doesn’t exactly change the meaning of what I said, because an object, by its very definition, doesn’t have to assume a passive role, and I never said she took a passive role because that isn’t historically accurate. Cleopatra knew very well what she was doing and it wasn’t like she stumbled upon Julius Caesar or Mark Antony. She knew the power they held and she wanted to be able to wield it. She ensured that she portrayed herself in a waypoint then in a way that would tempt them and she got very lucky as both Julius Caesar and Mark Antony were notorious for being quite lustful so tempting them wasn’t that hard.
@@justinpolanco5046 " she used her body for political power " why not the other way around?.. Why do you think women are seducing men, and not men like Antony are getting into bedroom of the Pharaoh, a living goddess', to have a shot on ruling the world, eh?.. DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK MEN DIDN'T MARRY FOR POLITICAL REASONS?! Marc did that at least twice. Officially. That's how politics worked back then. Am not even talking about the other Marc Anthony who married J-Lo.))) Your perspective is skewed by your chauvinism. Also, it's ironic how men think of a perfect seductress with a body count of literally TWO MEN, the second only after the first guy died. Like, how insecure are you guys?! XD
I would add: she tried with a third
In Rocky and Bullwinkle's Mr. Peabody version, Cleo was "played" by Mae West.
3:48 I just imagine the song can you feel the heart playing in the background
Holy crap did you guys bring back Walpole!!! I am so glad I got back into this series!
Augustus, " even my foes are better off"
Loved the cameo appearence of Clown Dude and Bat Person!
Robert Walpole has basically become extra history’s mascot.
I thought we were done then boom bonus episode.
Agustus deserves a series on this channel
Please make Aspen a recurring character!
I mean... There is the heck snake.
@@marschallblucher6197 plot twist: The Heck Snake is actual Aspen
Wait who are you talking about?
Whoa they turned that clone high character into a real person.
Personally I consider Carry on Cleo to be the definitive and most entertaining version 😀
I've always thought implying Cleopatra to be a great ruler rings a little hollow when at the end of her reign her kingdom collapsed....
@H S They can't have been that great, or else their empires wouldn't have collapsed at the end of their reigns.
@@heresy8384 umm Alexander the Great?
@@linuslaw9648 He was a Great conqueror, but not a Great leader
Ah I see what you mean. A conqueror may be a military leader, but that isn’t quite equivalent to a ruler who must lead a country... But there should still be quite a few great rulers whose primary flaw was that they couldn’t imagine a world without them, and things fell apart after they died.
I adore your channel. Every series gets better than previous.
Cleopatra: Absolutely playing all the other big names of the Roman World. Absolute mad lad (but the female version). Champion.
Mad Lass
Mad lass.
Til Augustus.
Except the last one
Mad lass.
At Precisely 8:29 , a u.f.o hieroglyph suddenly appearing in beam of flashlight over Cleopatras' head woulda been fuuuuunnnny. Good episode. ..as all these are.
if her history written by men is biased then why would a history written by women be any less biased? (just in the opposite direction)
I hope you guys do an 'epilogue' video for more historical figures from here on in. This was a wonderful look at the legacy of a fascinating woman.
The questions of Cleo = Dido has always fascinated me, as did the placement of Dido in Carthage as a mythological way to explain the Punic Wars. We believe these myths are centuries old, and pre-date the historical Cleopatra and Punic Wars. I have always wondered what those myths predating the historical event looked like. I suspect that they do not survive/never existed, or only exist based on extrapolation and interpretation of art since any such written source would have been gold and assigned to every undergrad reading Virgil, and I've been through a whole classics undergrad program without seeing such a source.
okay now I need a Hamilton series or a one-shot parody of the musical. but 4 real, tho, Cleopatra is one of my historical faves, this series was great!
I’d like something on Napoleon or Frederick the Great, those famous figures were incredible
Sing along with me folks: Who lives, who dies, who tells your story.
Eliza!
I put myself back in the narrative...
I stop wasting my time on tears, I live another 50 years
It's not enough.
Please consider doing a series on Machiavelli, The Prince, Florence and that time period with the Italian city states! That would be so interesting
i bet 10,000 dollars that the lies episode will be longer than 40 minutes.
That is what happens when you make a point of using information purely written by women instead of focusing on the most credible sources, regardless of sex
Great end to a great series.
1:49 Ah, dont worry, he will sneak in.
You guys are so good!
Brilliant episode as always!!
Its poetic how the person who wanted to get rid of her, made Cleopatra one of the most famous people, much more so than Octavian himself outside those interested in history.
Bravo, great final episode!
So what I'm getting here is that Cleopatra killed herself because of a misunderstanding of Octavian's intentions. The version I heard was that she didn't want to be part of Octavian's triumph, but if the Aneid reflects Octavian genuinely pining after her, than he may have been having the same ideas she was about dynasty establishment.
The extra ironic thing is that even if she knew Octavian might have been looking to make her the queen of the whole Mediterranean world at his side, she might have still killed herself instead because I'm pretty sure that by that point she also just personally hated Octavian.
Given roman imperial history after Augustus' reign ended though, it does make you wonder what would have happened if instead of the Julio-Claudians, Rome's first dynasty was the Caesarion dynasty, given how he rose to power, Octavian could probably be persuaded to bump his adopted half brother (as well as the safety of Marc Anthony's kids with her maybe just letting them move out to the estate aunty Arsinoe was chilling at) for succession after his death in exchange for Cleopatra's hand.
hilarious
Octavian many times proved he never forgot how young he was when first gripped by the desires of empire
the fates of ceasarion and aggripa posthumus might serve as an example (sadly)
I know his whole thing was he couldn't find a successor
Stil he always made sure to close the door on usurpers, man, woman and child alike
Cleopatra never had a chance
When you guys rolled in the Hamilton reference, I was like "why does that look so familiar... ohhhh, you mean that"
Would be awesome to see a movie with a highly intelligent and cunning version of Cleopatra.
Hold on, what about people like King Tut, Ramses II, Leonidas I, Cyrus the Great, Darius the Great, or Herod? Are they not remembered today?
EDIT: Also Herodotus, Moses, Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle
They are but no where near to the same extent as Cleopatra.
@@feldmarschallvonbraunschwe4463 , no I would say the more famous than her . Or well Herod , King Tut and Leonidas at least.
Not by regular people who have no interest in history
They are remembered by historians, but not people without even a passing knowledge of history.
Not by common people
Ulpia Severina - "I literally ran Rome for a year and no one other than Dovahhatty bothered to include me in a video smdh 😒"
Aliea Pulcheria - "bruh!"
'even those these portrayals often play fast and loose with history' thats a fitting description for these episodes
And by "dramatic death", Dido had her handmaidens build a huge fire, into which she went in, and cursed Rome to always be Carthage's enemy. (I think)
8:12 I definitely suggest checking out the documentaries she is a part of, especially those on MagellanTV. They are amazing and teach/show you a whole lot about the Roman world that you might not already know.