clearance measurements might be ok with them only out by 1 or 2 teeth but the cam lobe will be resting on a different area when timed correctly so id remeasure after refitting the cams. when refitting them Its important to try to keep any chain slack is on the cam chain tensioner side and its tight on the other side of the engine or you can easily end up 1 or 2 teeth out I've done that myself! After installing the tensioner, turn over the crank by hand atleast 2 or 3 full revolutions to allow tensioner to self adjust then recheck the timing marks. Good luck Nat, enjoying the build series!
This is making me realise just how much I don't fully understand, and it's getting me to read up on things so ta. Really interesting stuff!!!! Cheers, Andy.
Cracked it in the end! When you're setting valve clearances up from scratch, the usual way is to initially assemble it with the thinnest shims available, to give yourself the best chance of having an actual clearance to measure, so you can make your calculations. In the past, when I haven't had a thin enough shim available, I've assembled it without a shim in the bucket, then measured the total gap by stacking the feeler gauges, to work out the shim size needed. You can set up the shims on the bench before you fit the head, by assembling (and torquing down) the cams to check your clearances. It's easier to take them back off and swap shims at this stage than after refitting head and cam chain. Nearly there.
It might b the best head you’ve ever had mate! Best o luck setting your valve clearances and if you’ve got some sympathy to spare think of me and my FZ 750 with 20 valves and the little bucket type shims set under the cam buckets !!! Cams out !
If you can, go to the maximum clearance on the exhaust out. As they generally wear close quicker. If stuck for shims look at hot cams....that's who I use for my 95 kawasaki gt750.
Yep, they do wear quicker due to the extra heat, so I went as loose (but in spec obvs), as I could on the exhaust valves, and middle of the spec range as close as I could for the inlets as it give a bit better power, plus they take longer to wear.
Many, many moons ago i rebuilt the engine on my 2.6L SD1. Any of the shims that were too thick i rubbed them down with a piece of wet and dry on a plate of glass, that's how tight i was back in my yoof 😂
Done similar on an Astra I had, none starter in the cold. wasn't being tight, well maybe, but needed the car the next day so couldn't wait, feel sorry for the next guy reading the shim thickness!
I've done that in the past, successfully on shims that fit under the bucket, but when I tried it on my GS550 (with shims on top like the XJ), the material was so hard, I couldn't make any impression on them.
.275 to .260 doesn't sound like much until you realise it's getting on for half a millimeter. That's quite a lot. Also, I'd recheck the .260s on 1, 2 & 3 that you're going to based on zero clearances before ordering your extra shims, you might need to be ordering more there as well. In fact, if you have some undersized shims lying about, you might try those instead of the .260s, come at the correct figure from both sides, as it were. Doing valve clearances on a VF500 is a load of fun. And critical, because they die in a hurry if you get it wrong.
As I understand it, the numbers on Yamaha shims represent their thickness in millimetres. So 275 and 260 shims are 2.75mm and 2.60mm thick respectively. Consequently, the difference between them is only 15 hundredths of a millimetre rather than a half millimetre.
@@luddite6239 Ah, my bad. Of course they're gonna be in mm, it's not like the Japanese are stupid. Unlike me, obviously :). For some reason I thought Nat was measuring with imperial feelers.
@@NatsNackersYard You definitely need to recheck your measurements, going from a 2.75 to a 2.60 shim from a 0 measurement doesn't put it in spec, it'll be at 0.15 when you need to get to 0.20 or close to it using a 2.80mm shim, don't go tight, especially on exhaust valves as they get much hotter and wear quicker. Do them as best you can, then remeasure them once done, the 0 measured valves may still not be quite right for instance due to extra wear. People not doing clearances as and when needed make the job harder when it gets more serious.
I thought the same initially but now I am not so sure. The valves are set from the cam at the top end, not the bottom so I don't think that it makes a difference.
Nat Im glad you have got to grips with the valves but Im curious. If there is no clearance at all between the cam and shim how can you be sure how much to adjust. For example if a number of valves are being held open with no clearance might it be possible that there is some variance in the amount each vave is being held off from being closed? If this is possible then each valve with zero clearance could well need a differing amount of adjustment rather than each being treated the same. I maybe wrong but it appears you will only be able to be sure of the adjustment needed following a clearance reading being known. Do you get my drift or am I off the mark. Good luck Andy
I think that I mentioned exactly the same in the upload. The zeros will be tricky as anything that far out presents the same gap I. E. None. There may be some trial and error and I doubt that I will get it right first time!
Just so you know,the valve clearance s that are measured as zero might not be zero!If the gap between valve and cam is 5mm and your shim is 5mm,you will measure zero.Simple.If,however,your shim is10mm,you will still measure zero gap!Something to bear in mind.All the best.
At 7:35 don’t you get the exhaust and inlet clearances for No1 cylinder muddled up ? Exhaust at front of engine / bike and inlet at rear. I think you may have noted these down back to front ?
Nat, apologies but I’m watching this via subtitles sat in a McD, other burger joints are available. At 8:19 you said because the .038 shim wouldn’t go in therefore the valve is permanently open. No no no. I think you’re not fully understanding the relationship between cam, bucket and clearance. I can’t wait to get home and watch this properly.
@@NatsNackersYard Having watched it all with audio rather than subtitles yes you seem to be moving in the right direction. As you pointed out those with zero gap you have no idea what shim to fit until you can actually measure a gap. I'm surprised the valve clearances were all so far out, but until we actually see what shims are currently in it's all guess work.
Any and all progress is good progress. Well done.
Cheers mate.
clearance measurements might be ok with them only out by 1 or 2 teeth but the cam lobe will be resting on a different area when timed correctly so id remeasure after refitting the cams. when refitting them Its important to try to keep any chain slack is on the cam chain tensioner side and its tight on the other side of the engine or you can easily end up 1 or 2 teeth out I've done that myself! After installing the tensioner, turn over the crank by hand atleast 2 or 3 full revolutions to allow tensioner to self adjust then recheck the timing marks. Good luck Nat, enjoying the build series!
Thanks for watching and for the suggestions. All very useful.
This will be interesting Nat. Look forward to the next start up
Good God, me too!
This is making me realise just how much I don't fully understand, and it's getting me to read up on things so ta. Really interesting stuff!!!! Cheers, Andy.
Great to hear!
At least you've found a problem Nat👍
Again!
Cracked it in the end! When you're setting valve clearances up from scratch, the usual way is to initially assemble it with the thinnest shims available, to give yourself the best chance of having an actual clearance to measure, so you can make your calculations. In the past, when I haven't had a thin enough shim available, I've assembled it without a shim in the bucket, then measured the total gap by stacking the feeler gauges, to work out the shim size needed.
You can set up the shims on the bench before you fit the head, by assembling (and torquing down) the cams to check your clearances. It's easier to take them back off and swap shims at this stage than after refitting head and cam chain.
Nearly there.
Spookily enough I was thinking that I could bench fit this morning. Good to have confirmation!
It might b the best head you’ve ever had mate! Best o luck setting your valve clearances and if you’ve got some sympathy to spare think of me and my FZ 750 with 20 valves and the little bucket type shims set under the cam buckets !!! Cams out !
Ouch!
If you can, go to the maximum clearance on the exhaust out.
As they generally wear close quicker.
If stuck for shims look at hot cams....that's who I use for my 95 kawasaki gt750.
Yep, they do wear quicker due to the extra heat, so I went as loose (but in spec obvs), as I could on the exhaust valves, and middle of the spec range as close as I could for the inlets as it give a bit better power, plus they take longer to wear.
Sounds good to me!
Many, many moons ago i rebuilt the engine on my 2.6L SD1. Any of the shims that were too thick i rubbed them down with a piece of wet and dry on a plate of glass, that's how tight i was back in my yoof 😂
Done similar on an Astra I had, none starter in the cold. wasn't being tight, well maybe, but needed the car the next day so couldn't wait, feel sorry for the next guy reading the shim thickness!
Let's see how desperate I get!
I've done that in the past, successfully on shims that fit under the bucket, but when I tried it on my GS550 (with shims on top like the XJ), the material was so hard, I couldn't make any impression on them.
.275 to .260 doesn't sound like much until you realise it's getting on for half a millimeter. That's quite a lot.
Also, I'd recheck the .260s on 1, 2 & 3 that you're going to based on zero clearances before ordering your extra shims, you might need to be ordering more there as well. In fact, if you have some undersized shims lying about, you might try those instead of the .260s, come at the correct figure from both sides, as it were.
Doing valve clearances on a VF500 is a load of fun. And critical, because they die in a hurry if you get it wrong.
As I understand it, the numbers on Yamaha shims represent their thickness in millimetres. So 275 and 260 shims are 2.75mm and 2.60mm thick respectively. Consequently, the difference between them is only 15 hundredths of a millimetre rather than a half millimetre.
PS bring back screw and locknut tappets! 🙄
I had the same thoughts on the 'zeros'. I doubt that I will get it right first time!
@@luddite6239 Ah, my bad. Of course they're gonna be in mm, it's not like the Japanese are stupid. Unlike me, obviously :). For some reason I thought Nat was measuring with imperial feelers.
@@NatsNackersYard You definitely need to recheck your measurements, going from a 2.75 to a 2.60 shim from a 0 measurement doesn't put it in spec, it'll be at 0.15 when you need to get to 0.20 or close to it using a 2.80mm shim, don't go tight, especially on exhaust valves as they get much hotter and wear quicker.
Do them as best you can, then remeasure them once done, the 0 measured valves may still not be quite right for instance due to extra wear. People not doing clearances as and when needed make the job harder when it gets more serious.
DONT forget if you change the head gasket you will have to do this all over again 😂
I thought the same initially but now I am not so sure. The valves are set from the cam at the top end, not the bottom so I don't think that it makes a difference.
@@NatsNackersYard fair point fella it's not a push rod engine. Every day is a school day LOL
put thinner shim in valves that are not closing then check it to find shims you need as you might order wrong ones that tool is easy to use
Thanks mate.
might be jumping in before the end of the video but you have the inlet and exhaust reading backwards (lol @ 9 mins you sussed it)
Yep, caught my cock up!
Nat Im glad you have got to grips with the valves but Im curious.
If there is no clearance at all between the cam and shim how can you be sure how much to adjust.
For example if a number of valves are being held open with no clearance might it be possible that there is some variance in the amount each vave is being held off from being closed? If this is possible then each valve with zero clearance could well need a differing amount of adjustment rather than each being treated the same.
I maybe wrong but it appears you will only be able to be sure of the adjustment needed following a clearance reading being known.
Do you get my drift or am I off the mark.
Good luck Andy
I think that I mentioned exactly the same in the upload. The zeros will be tricky as anything that far out presents the same gap I. E. None. There may be some trial and error and I doubt that I will get it right first time!
Just so you know,the valve clearance s that are measured as zero might not be zero!If the gap between valve and cam is 5mm and your shim is 5mm,you will measure zero.Simple.If,however,your shim is10mm,you will still measure zero gap!Something to bear in mind.All the best.
I think that I mentioned that in the upload mate. I doubt my first attempt at curing the zeros will be correct but I may have to 'zone in'.
Doh,must attention .@@NatsNackersYard
At 7:35 don’t you get the exhaust and inlet clearances for No1 cylinder muddled up ? Exhaust at front of engine / bike and inlet at rear. I think you may have noted these down back to front ?
I did but corrected myself shortly afterwards
@@NatsNackersYard Good save. Just trying to help..Pete
🏍👍
💪🏍️👍
😡👍❤️🛠
I am getting closer I think...
Nat, apologies but I’m watching this via subtitles sat in a McD, other burger joints are available. At 8:19 you said because the .038 shim wouldn’t go in therefore the valve is permanently open. No no no. I think you’re not fully understanding the relationship between cam, bucket and clearance. I can’t wait to get home and watch this properly.
It's quite possible that I am misunderstanding but essentially if my thinnest feeler gauge won't go it, I am calling it zero!
@@NatsNackersYard Having watched it all with audio rather than subtitles yes you seem to be moving in the right direction. As you pointed out those with zero gap you have no idea what shim to fit until you can actually measure a gap. I'm surprised the valve clearances were all so far out, but until we actually see what shims are currently in it's all guess work.
9th 😅
Busy day? 😂