Top 5 Tips to Fix BORING COMBAT in Pathfinder 2e!
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
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Intro: 0:00
Tip 1: 2:30
Tip 2: 7:26
Tip 3: 8:58
Tip 4: 11:23
Tip 5: 13:48 
Игры
#2 is SO important to having good combats. Use bosses and minions, undelings and commanders, squads of mixed group types working around a specific strategy (example, a tank, a grappler, a control mage, all supporting a ranged damage dealer, who would be the highest level member of the team) to both enhance the tactical battle AND tell a sharper story with the fight.
The tip about letting a miss create a square of difficult terrain is a cool one for when players use a hero point and still fail the roll. It would help make the hero point not feel wasted.
I personally homebrew hero points to always just increase the degree of success by 1 step. That way, it is never wasted. spending a resource and getting nothing for it feels so bad in these types of games.
My own biggest tip for creating an encounter for myself is, "Make your Combats for your Players."
Make sure each player will be able to do something cool and stand out.
That's a good tip. The other side of that coin is *occasionally* making encounters that undermine players' most powerful abilities or target their weak points. Just to make them think outside the box, switch up their tactics and think creatively.
For tip 5, at least in PF2E, this is where the creature building rules come into play I find. The tables in that chapter provide an amazing baseline for you to start with.
the table is fantastic gives you all the numbers and you can double down with certain "families" like vampires that add more depth to creatures
I'd add two more. Mobility: Having reasons to move and reposition often. This might link into terrain changing or being used to divide or it may be that enemies push. That breath weapon pushes you back or a swashbuckler switches position with you. Or just remembering the attack and step back. For the second (and it overlaps a bit with changing abilities) is that enemies can use items. Even just general items can offer new ideas such as a bandit soaping the ladder behind them to make it harder to climb, someone fleeing throwing out coins to distract you or NPCs, or a goblin trying to snare you with their fishing rod. Less likely with monster creatures but a giant crocodile may have a bit of previously eaten wizard in their teeth still clutching a wand that fires off randomly for example.
Just recently had a session where the GM used both #2 and #4. It was a room full of gremlins of verying types, some weak little mooks, some a little tougher and one "big" boss guy. Initially, things werent great, but once we thinned the numbers a bit, the boss calls for surrender. The encounter was concidered delt with, we got some info on the dungeon for sparing the rest, and the party leveled up for the start of our next session.
Only 2 minutes into this video and I already agree 100% with your intro. I run into this problem so often that combat has become tedius as a GM. I'll be sharing this with my players and fellow GM's.
A fun underrated thing is giving a bonus weakness or vulnerability to every foe while making more environmental hazards. Makes alchemists and casters more fun while martials can really take advantage of those excellent saves and superior HP.
Or putting a Victory Point Skill Challenge in the middle of combat to make Skills and Spells more fun to use in a case of problem solving. Like breaking down a wall or series of locks while martials are holding off a hoard or giant beast, or rescuing a shackled captive while it’s raining giant spiders.
Find new ways to make different character strengths awesome.
Oh, and make more of your villains hot or goofy. That helps too.
*Hastily adds giant spiders to weather effects random table*
Great video. I will say Paizo does often give win conditions beyond killing the appointment and other morale things. They just arent in the stat blocks, its often in the paragraphs about the encounters. I also believe they don't do it for every encounter in order to leave those things up to the GM, much like how they sometimes will have a random section in a dungeon that says "oh yeah this path leads to the darklands." The adventure has nothing to do with the darklands but a gm now has that in their toolbox for side adventures and inspiration, just like how it should be a gms choice how a surviving creature affects the story going forward(if they do at all.),
Yeah, I'm running Gatewalkers and there's a lot of "They will flee at low health or if x happens"
The elevation really does shine. Played an 5eHB as a satyr barbarian, we were in a rocky valley, and i was able to use the satyrs jumping ability to traverse ledges to get some archers. I did miss 1 ledge and had to get back up for the last archer. 10,10 tip.
I have always added new abilities to my monsters. Though I do it in the middle of combat based on what the party does. If the party surrounds the wyvern in melee, I have the wyvern spin around 360 degrees trying to hit everyone with their tail to knock them away and prone. If someone deals too much damage to the giant boss to quickly than I wanted, I have the giant boss go into a frenzy with temp hp and more attacks each turn until the temp hp is gone and he tuckers out, getting a penalty to attacking.
Tip 5 is where you learn if your players really respect you as a GM and not just put up with you because no one else wants to GM. That "well ackshually" response is an involuntary reflex from players for games that have been by the book up until that point. It reminds me of that scene from "Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising" in the beginning where the guy playing the cleric says he wouldn't have if he'd known about the curveball the DM sprung on the group; excellent movie about gaming, definitely recommended. So, yeah, it is definitely an 'advanced' tip.
One of the times I tried running Dragons of Autumn Twilight (using PF1 rules no less), I had trouble getting *anyone* to play the "prophet" role - the module has different character story roles that can be referenced at various times during the adventure arc - because it would involve having to wait for a certain part, albeit early on in, the story to get their full character abilities. I wound up having to designate a paladin as the prophet that game (because the player said at least they'd have fighting skills in the meantime), and made the artifact into a sword to make it more useful to them and not just a mcguffin item. And during character creation, they kept trying to find ways around the "no magical healing available" part of the setting at that point in the timeline. They just didn't want to accept that any type of healing (outside of what in pf2 would be medicine checks) just didn't exist and were upset that I didn't let them get around it with alchemy either.
Totally agree that many creatures and sentient beings would not fight to the death. For example or comparison, it is a big weakness of most video games, where wildlife notably fight to the death instead of running away as they would after one clear wound.
Elevated combat also teaches you that everyone needs range. We were playing AoA and we had and encounter that was flying large creature with 15 ft reach that just flew over party and the two melee characters couldn't do anything. After the encounter both melee players bought a bow to swap out in range combat areas. Because in that same area there were enemies on the far side of map and it took them 3 turns to cross the map because we started sniping them from across the map and there was nothing for melee to do until they got close.
In regards to tip four, I like running games with the mindset that enemies want to live. My Demons and Devils fight to the bitter end... because it isn't for them, but everyone else is either fighting because they think they are winning, 'cause there isn't a way out, or they're making a break for it. Have your enemies call your players a bitch, but then when they start getting whooped remind players that being called a bitch means they are strong, confident, and absolutely-terrifying-please-don't-kill-me. (if ya know, ya know)
Nonat, you are the most inspiring and enthusiastic TTRPG player I ever saw. Thank you for sharing your deep thoughts and passion for the game!
#3 is honestly fantastic advice. How you as the DM run things will inform your players on what type of game they're in. If you just bash stat blocks against the players, that's what they expect, and that's how they'll think. If you have the dragon swoop in low and rake its claws through the earth, shredding the ground in an area and launching a spray of dirt and rocks at the party, not only is that _cinematic as hell,_ it also helps get the party thinking in terms of how they can use their surroundings to do things that aren't explicitly covered by their abilities.
I'm running a 5e oneshot (more like 3 shot 😅) and as much as it throws me off in the moment when my players say "I want to diplomacize with the cultists," I'm happy. It lets them use their charismatic abilities in the middle of a fight and forces me to take a good hard look at the state of the encounter and think about how my creatures are feeling. I have some built in "the creatures fight until x health / y remain," exits to some of the combats, but it's always cool to see the players take that initiative too
Today we are starting a new campaign and first time in Pathfinder! Starting as a Way of the Sniper and oh boy I already talked to my DM about how will I be finding anything to climb on to get better advantage. Thanks for the great vids! Has helped a lot with learning Pathfinder
i used a mandragora to confuse a summoner conrasu and a half orc fighter, to then laugh, stride and burrow away, it took them 3-4 rounds to end their confusions, the summoner dropped himself to 0 hitting his eidolon, the fighter crited against the investigator cutting like half her life, and i didnt even have a monster in the iniciative
A pleasure to sponsor one of your videos again! Such great battle tips, no.1 is 100% how I keep my battles surprising! 🌙
Another great video! As a new GM I always worry about combats feeling samey so I will definitely be using the tips in the future!
Thanks for the great video Nonats. Honestly, just wanna say that I'm glad it seems you're feeling better. If you're not, I hope you get to take it easy, but you seem like you're back to form :)
#1 also applies to more than just buildings. I built an encounter on a boat specifically for my one ranged character. They got attacked by a bunch of naga, and only one character had a ton of ranged options. Had naga drowning the crew with people diving in to save them. Made the combat super fun.
These are excellent techniques, ideas, or whatever you want to call them. And something I’m gonna be using. Love your channel, and you better start playing in person. That’s what TTRPGs were originally designed to used for…..real people, not computer video gaming or zoom type games lol. Keep your content coming your awesome
For Tip 3, I incorporate Hazards in the environment naturally with fail safes and opportunities for advanced tactics
Some Examples: If a foe or PC is has it's back against a Tree due to pressure from a powerful foe, they have flat footed.
Same with a Guard Tower with a tight stairwell with ascending vs descending (as it's intended use in the real world) gives natural cover (minor, so +1)to whomever has their right hand with the most space.
You used the boulder explosion for creating difficult terrain as a good example. But I've used a big foe who's attack Nat 1'd to destroy a tree and cause it to fall on that foe, and roll in front/behind that foe. Fortitude OR Reflex save being an option to either shrug it off, or dodge the tree, or take "Xd6 bludgeoning damage" level/tree size pending.
An Ogre (CR3) uses a club that misses the party member and smashes a tree, it makes a Fortitude save vs DC by environmental level (CR2 so DC 16). The ogre will likely shrug off the tree, and it goes coin flip direction, heads facing the foe the ogre targeted, tails going behind the ogre (easy enough system).
If tails, the Ogre can be tripped more easily if the player is tactical, or if it falls on the player, they make a save at DC16 of their choice, making the encounter dynamic really interesting.
"I know" is one of the most intimidating lines that a DM can say in response when you mention that that isn't how a creature works.
Just, that immediate dread that settles in as the realization dawns on you that you a a player don't always know how an enemy will work. True terror
Great work Nonat🎉
Loved this! One of your better vids!
Great tips !
Very inspiring
Thank you so much for the great tips !
Sorta a combination of 1 & 2, but I love dynamic environments. A fight in a locked room with a lowering ceiling, on top of a moving vehicle, during an earthquake, within a giant moving orrery… Anything that forces the PC (and their enemies) to adapt their tactics to unique environments.
I havent even really though about it but tbh most of our combats do seem to be, melee bois up front, casters cast your cantrips in the back. Ive just been having fun with them anyway. XD
i had moral happen like this in a rogues guild ones. the players found out buy not killing them they were only stealing from the ruling class because they couldn't afford to survive otherwise. really helped the story along.
I'd say this was one of your best videos yet. :)
I like to use clocks, like pull out an old board game spinner and let the players see it. Your players need to stop the ritual before the enemy caster takes his fifth turn or you have 8 rounds to escape the tunnel before it collapses. Adds tension and a purpose to prioritizing targets or movement over systematically murdering every goblin in the room
Barbarian "Where should kill them cause they are goblins."
My Goblin Alchemist giving the barbarian a WTF look.
I had to use #3 in Pathfinder 1e because we encountered a swarm and none of the weapons to take them out. I used a axe and hastily chopped down a tree and kicked it onto the swarm and managed to squash the swarm. It was fucking cool.
One thing I like to do is having encounters being progressive, by mashing up 2 easy-medium encounters into one but staggering enemies coming in.
It's a superb tool to both add tension and tweak the difficulty on the fly.
And if you like goofier games, it should be a blast having enemies just popping up creatively, like goblins going full FBI into the room, gelatinous cube appearing from the vomit of an acid monster that took a big hit, or whatever.
Don't hesitate to use monsters that should even be too weak for the encounters. It's shocking how even a -5 level monster can actually piss off a PC by hitting with a lucky roll, giving flanking, or being an overall roadblock.
And it feels absolutely great for the spellcaster that have chain lightning.
About #4 i would like to introduce a rule that i use when nongoblin creatures has goblin minions called "goblin morale"
>"whentever the number of goblin alive is lower than half of the number of the start, tje goblins switch side"
Great ideas! I'm going to be GMing for the first time in a while next month (And for the first time in pf2), and I'll keep these in mind.
Kingmaker companions guide has a map where theres a bridge which can be completely broken with a small amount of damage, that one of my monsters managed to do in a single ranged attack.
It forced the players from their advantageous high ground, into the water and rubble below.
good tips, thanks!
My biggest tip would be to include narrative in the combat. Add changing scenarios. Some examples:
1. Someone betrayed the party or the enemy
2. Someone surrenders and asks for their lives during combat
3. Give the players a reason to change what their doing, such as a sudden change in motive like a friend npc os about to be killed
Lots of examples of narrative can really elevate your combats from just hitting people until you get to the next objective
Playing with surrendering enemies is a dangerous thing in my group. The moment we have a surrendered enemy, PCs immediately go into overdrive applying stockholm syndrome to their captive and turning them into a "friend" and then minion. It can be cool, but also it can get a bit excessive and then makes more work for the DM to satisfy the players' desire for their minion to be able to do something for them once they have spent time befriending it.
Another tip: Make a momentous combat require role-playing and skill checks to increase or decrease the monsters abilities. Make a dialog with a HAG and based on the skill checks, the HAG is stronger or weaker.
I think a good tip that nobody ever mentions is: add context
Combats are instantly better when it’s set up within the story and there’s context that’s tied up with the things you’re fighting than a bunch of nameless enemies in a room. It’s cooler when you beat the town raiders that were terrorizing a town for countless years than a bunch of random bandits you meet on the road. Combat should be part of the story as much as any other character moment.
Hey @Nonat1s! Thanks for your work! Great video as always!
I only ran 1 full Adventure Path and it is the most ancient (Rise of the Runelords) and I found there were a lot of encouters with morale precisions and consequences furter in the scenario if the NPC survive. Maybe I don't have enough experience with most recent Adventure Paths but I found you a little unfair when you said "Don't be Paizo." ;)
Best regards :)
Tip #4 is useful in avoiding what I've dubbed 'Stupid Monster Syndrome'. It's as if people making these adventures occasionally forget that most creatures (not all, but most) have the primary goal of NOT DYING. Yes, they are clearly attacking for a reason, meaning they have goals besides not dying but most creatures and beings aren't willing to throw their lives away in pursuit of those goals. If a creature or being IS willing to die rather than retreat, there needs to be a reason for that; a reason to fight to the death, not having 'Fight to the Death' as a default.
My favorite combat environment is a stalactite filled cave with poison gas, a shallow lake, or some other difficult terrain. Watching people make safe zones or catching PC's out of position really forces the group to think both tactically and vertically.
I think new monsters is better than adding abilities, adding abilities to existing monsters can lead to frustration at the GM, when you add a new monster that same player will either use recall knowledge, or play it blind, see the ability and thing "that bastard" about the monster, and have fun defeating the monster, because the player got what they were in their right to expect, which, in that case, was the unexpected (or the expected if they recalled knowledge correctly)
Omg! I just realized that's one of Super Mario 64's Water worlds playing as background!😂🎉
#5 requires a lot of trust which can be difficult for players with a new DM. It is very easy to break the social contract by tossing the rules out causing imbalance so needs to be carefully considered. Also very easy to have feel bad moments with such. It requires a delicate touch due to expectations.
We've had several fights in our campaign where after one of us have gotten a "Glory Kill" (heavy overkill or beating a particularly strong enemy) we get to try and intimidate the surrounding enemies. At one point I managed to scare off a group of Kobolds after killing their leader.
#1 Just be careful your players are able to deal with playing it smart.
Had a wierd situation where the enemy had the secure high ground, but inferior range. Bombs vs Ray of Frost and Halfling Slingstaff.
We _could_ have forced them down, simply sniping them from ranged. Our melees rushed in anyway, several people went down.
#2 When designing encounters for 4 players, always have at least 1 enemy worth the character adjustment of the XP budget.
Like one Level-2 for a moderate encounter. That way you can quickly scale the encounter to 3 or 5+ players.
#4 Shadowrun has the "professional rating", which acts as a CR, a morale check threshold, a morale check value and a autobreak threshold.
I'm of the opinion that learning how to homebrew isn't very diffcult. Modifying existing monster is a great way to start at it - the methods you mentioned are perfectly fine, and is cornerstone for a lot of homebrewing. Studying how existing monsters were made, why there numbers were there, how some monsters have high/extreme in things that make sense will elevate your understanding of how people put their monsters together, which leads to you making much better homebrew, imho.
Like, the creating a monster segment is shorter than Subsystem, come on folks. Join us. :3
In regards to #3, I was running the beginner's box for a group. At one point a zombie stands up from a tomb. I changed it so that when it did, the zombie threw the lid of the sarcophagus at a player. It missed, but it freaked the player out.
As an add on to your last tip. Make your enemy use magic items. Of course, after that the player might be able to use the items, it might scared your team a lot when the pirate gnoll use a magic item to create a wind vortex that push the players and possibly pushing them off the boat. Or having a goblin use a wand of fireball in a fight against trolls and goblin, which make this one goblin a severe treat, etc. Surprising players in combat is a great deal to make a good fight.
i love this tips
Or if the Ogre decided to golf swing a large rock at the players using his after mentioned club as the 9 iron lol
These are great! Thanks! Simple and practical. Anyone know why encounter design in published adventures is generally so lacking?
My one complaint about elevating combat is that vertical planes make mapmaking and calculating distance/range/movement and stuff 10 times more difficult. Just for the sake of keeping combat understandable and accessible I tend to avoid adding a third dimension like the plague
Boas dicas. Hugs from Brasil.
Cyclops eye laser?! *Takes idea and runs with it*
Not too long ago, my table's party (13th) came across a pair of arboreal reapers patrolling around what looked like a comatose Elder arboreal (an Arboreal Archive, for those curious), surrounded by a trio of glowing rune menhirs. The party Investigator tries to sink one of the menhirs with a Move Earth scroll, the enraged Archive wakes up, and the encounter begins, with the reapers not trying to kill the party, but trying to keep them away from the enraged Archive, begging them in Sylvan to please just leave, and that the elder was cursed and unwell, while the elder Archive was trying very hard to kill them.
A few rounds in, the Bard asks. "So, I have Telekinetic Bombardment. Can I rip one of those runestones cursing it out of the ground and throw it at one of the others?"
I was both completely off-guard and so proud, all at once.
It bears repeating, players like being rewarded. That's the whole thing roleplaying games use xp for: reward players for doing certain things above other things.
If you want players to do something more, reward them for it. If you want them to use terrain, make it an optimal choice.
FATE style: create an advantage. The kineticist sets a torch aflame as a third action, and the ranger shoots an arrow through the flames on the torch to make it a fire arrow and getting a +2 circumstance bonus to damage or +1 circumstance bonus to attack or such, from using the environment as part of your action economy. Bonuses matter in Pathfinder.
Shooting an arrow through a torch fire should realistically not do more damage. It's not realistic. It's awesome. If you want to see it play it out in the game of combat, reward the players for doing so. Giving out circumstance bonuses (or enemy penalties) can be a good way to do so.
My original DM used weather, terrain and climate all the time. I don't think there was an encounter without a penalty somewhere.
Oh dang, Brie getting called out in the ad read.
1) What is the fight about? If there is nothing the fight is about there shouldnt be a fight.
2) Are there reinforcements, mechanics that allow for breaking up the fight and other gimmicks that give the players alternative strategies to change the playing field?
3) Is there a story to the fight so we angaged these guards AND THEN they sounded the alarm BUT WE........... AND THEN ..............BUT WE
4) Make some encounters mathematically impossible and make the npc behaviour realistic and fallible
Shoot down the rock on the rope while the two idiots are still below it. Makes the crypt real easy
Who says the chair throw needs to be suboptimal? Maybe it trips, maybe it has splash damage, it's already at range!- give it a unique role other than damage-dealing
I like the purty artistic maps. But I need a gritty tactical mpa for combat, more like in Battletech. The best fights in a Hollywood movie are where the hero interacts more cleverly with an interesting setting and the terrain & items in it. Re: making combat a bit more interesing. "You miss" and "you dodge" are terrible. If somebody has DEX+0, plate mail, shield, and a ring +2, that is just about the only thing that did NOT happen. If he has 7ACs to a hit, and the roll is with 7, say it hit the plate. Up to 2 beyond that, magic repelling field.
When my players use the demoralize action after significantly wounding an enemy i will sometimes have the monster run away.
For number 5:
Its not that advanced at all in pathfinder2e. If its a complete unique ability then sure, but there are several monster templates (like the mutant template) which can be used on any base creature and gives new abilities.
For humanoid its even easier. Just give them potions or magic items which ofc the enemy can use, but once the players beat them they can get it themselves as well
So you make not attacking viable ?
Yeah whenever I get bored of a combat as a gm I just have the monsters run.
>this described way more encounters than you want it to
Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
SPOILER ALERT (story time)
Just remembered how we scared the kobold in beginner box into giving us information, tied him up and put him in the chest the kobold loot was in, then left to try to get a +1 striking weapon, which the gm allowed us to try (the fountain was still attacking), we ran past it while it was spraying us, we did some sidequests to get the weapon, and the GM said we have to prove that we were not gonna abuse it, so we went back grabbed the chest while the fountain was spraying us, we ran outside, and I gave the goblin to the guards.
Truly a TTRPG experience.
Have you been playing BG3 ? I feel like there may be some inspiration from that. :P (which is good)
Comment for the algorithm
Observed.
Contemporary TTRPGs are missing the morale mechanic.
Bruh I just use a projector pointing down onto my table ... no need for that terrain stuffs... I do use the ol 3d printer for some assets though
Just use difficult terrain and hazards. Complex hazards are so great in Pathfinder
The Prewritten adventure jab way too real man. At this point i'm so annoyed by this phrase that i start groaning when i read it while preparing my current Abomination Vaults campaign.
"tHe MoNsTeRs FiGhT tO tHe DeAtH!" And i don't even know why Paizo is doing this. Abomination Vaults actually has a number of encounters where the enemies do give up or surrender or flee when reduced to low enough HP, but it's so underutilized.
This video would be so much better if I didn't play Organized Play almost exclusively.
Your video editor need to never again use this 30sec background music loop... it's super irritating...
Good tips though.