Even though you didn't choose our system for your shop, seeing this kind of thorough research is truly inspiring! The majority of our customers are just as concerned as your are with picking the perfect dust collection system, an essential unit in any woodworker's shop. Videos like this are the reason why Oneida Air is always striving to include more and more information on our website to help customers get all the details they need before choosing a system. Thanks again for making this video! It's a great asset for the woodworking community as a whole.
Thank you. Your comment reinforces the universal feedback I hear about the professionalism of your company. There is no question that when using a decision matrix that allows a person to "weight" certain specifications and features for their specific shop needs the results can be surprising. I suspect for a very large number of people, the best filtration (which you have), the American-made aspect (which you are), and the exemplary customer service you provide will be "weighted" heavily and will tip the scales, so to speak, toward Oneida Air Systems. Again, thank you for the very well written and frankly, just plain "classy" note!
I like your cyclones I just wish they were more affordable. I keep looking at them but wonder why a cone with essentially 3 holes is so expensive and if they are worth the cost
So to all of you out there that think Steve is boring please just move on and keep your negative comments to yourself. Insulting the man publicly is wrong and childish. I for one Steve watch all your videos and I find them interesting and informative. I always like learning new things and you sir have taught me a thing or two. Nice job and keep em coming... Nashville, TN
What a great way to make the best choice for every individual's different wants and needs. Methodical, practical, and very usable. The number of thumbs down and ignorant comments from wanna-be detractors is merely an indication of their educational shortcomings. Thanks for sharing your wisdom and common sense approach to the decision making process. I will incorporate this methodology in the future whenever I am deciding on a significant and costly purchase. Best to you and yours and thanks for sharing!
I happen to come across your video and at just the right time. We are moving into a townhouse with an unfinished basement and my MSO (wife) said I can have the whole space for my woodshop. Your analysis for dust collection is just what I am looking for. Thank you for the very informative presentation. I also like your delivery style. Regards, Dwight
Another category I hope people will consider is country where tool is manufactured. Too many companies are shipping their manufacturing, and consequently American jobs, overseas. We should reward those who buck the trend of leaving manufacturing to a third party, exploit cheap labor, and generally weaken our economy - its a downward spiral that only ends in disaster. Well done video - clear, concise, and informative.
The "Buy American" slogan is an indicator of economic ignorance-I do NOT mean that you are a stupid person; I mean that you don't have the background in economics to see why "Buy American" is bad for everyone. It would not only not create prosperity in the United States, it would actually cost us jobs and make us all poorer. We should buy things where they are the cheapest. That frees up more of our resources-cash, time, etc.-to buy other things and other Americans get jobs producing those things. That's what people seem to forget. Anytime we can use fewer resources and/or less labor to produce one thing, that leaves more for other things we can't afford. If we save money buying abroad, we can make and buy other products. If you follow the "Buy American" path to its end, you'll see why it doesn't work. If it's good to "Buy American", then why isn't it good to "Buy Californian"? And if it's good to "Buy Californian", why isn't it good to have "Buy Hemet, Californian"? And if it's good to "Buy Hemet, Californian" ... You get the idea. You couldn't get very good stuff if you limited your purchases to only products made in Hemet, California. A huge part of the history of mankind is an increase in the division of labor. And that division of labor goes across national boundaries. Which creates wealth-and jobs. When foreign producers sell goods in the United States, it is because they are making a profit. They are supplying goods that American consumers demand at prices they agree to pay. By doing business in the United States, they are inevitably in competition with American firms as well. This has the effect of incentivizing all firms to increase the quality of their goods while lowering prices. This in turn benefits the American consumer, who has more goods to choose from while keeping more of their income. If Japan, for example, is able to build and sell better cars for lower prices than American producers, allowing Japan to produce cars for American consumers frees up American capital for investment in industries where Americans have the edge (like fossil fuel production) and can find markets both at home and abroad. This in turn has the effect of increasing the division of labor, which means higher standards of living for everyone-American or not. But doesn't this mean our trade deficit will increase? Perhaps. The so-called trade deficit refers to the current account, which keeps track of Americans' exchanges of goods and services with people in other countries. If in the aggregate during a given calendar year, the dollar value of the goods and services we buy from foreigners exceeds the dollar value of what we sell to them, that difference is said to be the trade deficit. But this is obviously a half-told story, because foreigners can do things with the dollars they earn other than buy American goods and services. They can invest in the United States by purchasing stock in companies or corporate bonds. That's good for Americans because it helps create new products and job opportunities. Foreigners can also buy government securities. (There's an easy way to keep foreigners from being creditors for the U.S. government, if that bothers anyone: stop deficit spending.) The point is that when you count everything-purchases, investments, and dollar holdings-the books must balance. It's an accounting certainty. If everyone benefited from "Buy American", everyone would do it naturally without being encouraged (guilt-tripped?) by their neighbors or having the government impose high tariffs on imported goods, which usually results in high tariffs on our exported goods and in turn, hurts American exports. If you want to "Buy American" just because you like it, by all means go ahead and do it! There is nothing wrong with that. But if you want to "Buy American" to help our economy, you need to find another cause.
Chinese products are cheap because they use slave labor in many factories and run sweatshops in others. Chinese quality is dubious. And the fact that they often times artificially undercut prices, makes them a no go for me whenever possible. That other guy on this thread that said buying American is bad and cysts USA jobs, is a dolt. He sounds like some ivory tower academic, who fails to understand how the REAL WORLD operates. On paper he may make some sense, but in practice he’s full of it.
Down to Earth, that is about the most logical and clear comparison of a tool system investment I've ever seen! Thanks, I'll adjust the weighting values for my own application and follow your lead! Great video concept and fine execution.
Old video I know, but hope you’re still woodshoppin’ I found your video pretty interesting. Hopefully you had no regrets down the road. Hey, you have a very nice space too. 👍
I went through this process last year(2014) and pretty much looked at the same models. I had a different weighting system where I put "the easiest way to clean the fine dust filter" as the highest. I had Oneida dust collection system with an internal fine filter. This clogged often and was such a bear to clean. My final choices were Oneida and Industrial Air Systems. I chose Oneida again with the Dust Gorilla. The quality of a baldor motor alone excels in the performance category. I felt that was a small shortcoming in your rating system. A big factor in performance also is keeping that fine filter clean.
This is a great video. This is a similar method that we've used in product selection committees at work. With every voting member's weighted score averaged together, we get an overall score from the group that is them discussed. I've used it myself when I want able to eliminate enough choices to narrow down my selection. It's important to weed out units that are out of scope beforehand, which this video demonstrated. One thing I do differently is that I never score the price. I take my final score and compare the price of the top 3 units to determine if the difference in price matters. Sometimes, features can be alerted aftermarket for a price. For example, if unit 1 wins because it has HEPA filtration but costs more than unit 2, I'll see what the addition of HEPA filtration to unit 2 will cost. It might make a difference, it might not.
Thanks Steve, I just watched this one for the second time and took notes. I am in the process of upgrading my band saw from a small hobby Ryobi 9" which is fine for small jobs and the motor takes a lot to stall, but as my needs grow so does the size of the equipment I need. I have looked in Edmonton, Alberta at Busy Bee Tool, Canadian Woodworker store and Marson Equipment so far to compare. I even went to talk to the salespersons at each store and that just confused me even more. To simplify my requisition of this new piece of equipment I am going to apply the weighting, ranking principles and compare the available band saws in this area that I can find online specifications and features for, apply to the chart and then go ask questions of the salesman. Thanks again, this will save me a lot of hassle, driving around and money.
I had a JDS unit like the one you picked... BIG Monster. Took too much room and made too much noise in the shop. sold it. Real tough to assemble by yourself. Get 2-3 friends to help. I also will caution you to never let the 55 gal drum fill all the way. Gets real heavy. I would recommend installing some sort of separator for the large chip in the workshop itself with a way to open a gate to load smaller bags with chips before letting it go to the collector itself. Finally, make sure all your seams of the collector are gasketed or caulked. Mine leaked live a sieve. In my new shop I will eventually get the best blower I can and forgo all the gizmos and gadgets and just blow everything out of the shop into a bin.
Really great video. I had a program for decision making (way back in the days of Windows 3.1) but never used it much. Somehow price became the deciding factor for the first 20 years I had a shop. I subscribed, of course! I really appreciate the explanation of your weighting system. My own DC is a Harbor Freight 2hp model - still in the box. Bought it because of the many videos showing it with a Thein baffle (and price). Thanks again.
What a great method to decide on one of the most important piece of equipment for a shop. Thank you Steve this was very informative. Happy new year. Derek
Quite an innovative approach how to buy a piece of equipment, I'm just guessing that this is the way you get most of your stuff. I'll look into your other videos, well done and I hope that your choice lives up to its promise, THANKS.
Had I been able to acquire a JDS unit here in Canada, that would have been my first choice as well. As it was, I was happy to discover we have a distributor for Oneida within a couple hours drive from my front door. So I went with Oneida. It's their smaller unit, the "mini gorilla", and I love it. That hepa filter is awesome. DOESN'T have paddles though, and that's a bit of a bummer. But it does have a remote. And I didn't even realise I was getting a remote! That was a cool surprise. Hope your unit is all that you hoped for. Thanks for posting.
Nice vid as always. I have the JDS 2100 unit and love it. Good fit and finish and the IR remote is a wonderful addition as is the automatic drum flapper cleaning mechanism. Recommend having a second pair of hands though for assembly. Enjoy!
No problem, but you will have to send me an email so I can send it to you (RUclips won't let you put email addresses in these comments). My email address is at the end of the video.
I have a few things to consider. Space is very important since I'm very limited, but I also produce both fluff from ripping a lot of material and very fine particals from wood such as very dry western red cedar. I also have to consider how often I'll have to empty whatever I'm collecting the stuff into. I can very quickly fill up a 20 gallon container and don't particularly feel like spending every few days doing that job. On the other hand I really don't want another fire under my saw..
Steve. I have a 3HP JET 2000 CMF for $200.00 on Craig's list and bought a remote for it. You can just mount the remote in the room with you and run a cord to it from the unit. I hope you considered the weight of the dust and chips. I am building an enclosure with filters for the DC which will also reduced the DB level. I pull dust from 20 feet away when I have to. But like you its just a matter of getting to do it which means no wood working while its getting done.. Nice job on the spread sheet idea
Hi Steve, just to let anyone know if they are thinking of purchasing the JDS collector you bought or any other ones from JDS that they are all out of stock. If you go to their website you will see that there are none available. Also none available from outside vendors. I was going to purchase the one you got based on your recommendation but now I have to come up with an alternative choice. I spoke to their company customer service and they told me they no longer will be importing the machines from overseas. They are having a company in the USA produce them and they are working on mock up prototypes as of now. They said you probably won't see any for sale until the mid summer at the earliest. That really is no good for my needs as I am just about to purchase a Sawstop TS. I can't wait that long. I need dust collection. Just a little FYI for anyone thinking about a JDS purchase. Keep those videos coming!!!
+Larry O Larry, Thanks! Haven't spoken with them myself, but have gotten pretty much the same information from others. Good news about moving the production back here, but not good news for folks that need to make a purchase now. Congratulations on the new SawStop!!!
Thank you very much for putting this together. At first i was a little skeptical but really when looking for any tools I follow the same process in my head. I might make a better decision putting this in Excel. I have to wonder how many times you adjusted the weighting on the various categories? I see myself going well, maybe the footprint is a little more important and than the features. Oh, lets adjust this to 4 and that to 5. it'd be interesting to see how much the winners change.
Thank you so much! When I originally did this, the weighting factors for a dust collector were pretty "set in stone" simply because I had an inviolate height restriction and certain CFM needs. Since then I have used the same concept to select a jointer (where bed length was one of my highest weightings) and for selecting a dovetail jig. In those instances I did "fiddle" a bit with the weightings, i.e. segmented cutter vs straight blades, fence height, and integrated wheels versus mobile base when selecting a jointer. I've gotten emails from people that have used the spreadsheet to select band saws, table saws, and one person used it to pick his big screen TV! Thanks for watching!
Steve, Love your work….I’ve made over 50 cabinet drawers on my way to 100, still making all kinds of new mistakes. In any event, a dust collection system is in our future. If your offer is still open to share your spreadsheet, it would be very much appreciated and would undouble ably help us arrive at our own personal “optimal” solution which as you know, drives everything else. As an aside my wife and I learned how to build not perfect, but pretty nice stuff and you made the basics accessible. Very big thanks!
Hi James, thanks for watching. If you go to my website www.downtoearthwoodworking.com and navigate to "Sources and Downloads" you can download the spreadsheet from there.
Not sure where JDS is made. Oneida is made in Syracuse NY. Any unit not manufactured in the USA would be automatically disqualified in my rankings. Price is not so much if an issue, as they are all costly.
I've thought about making a cyclone dust collector for my shop. I see a lot of them in both professional and amateur shops. However, I can't see how a dust collector does any good. I can dump the collected dust out of the bag on my vacuum with very little trouble, so the dust collector would not be more convenient. It can't possibly increase the efficiency of the vacuum, it is just adding an additional load. It might save the blades on the vacuum if I were to vacuum up large chunks of wood or metal. I don't do that and don't know anyone who does. That's what they make a broom form. So what are the reasons why a lot of people use them?
Steve, another great and informative video, thank you very much! I'm in the middle of planning a basement wood shop in a new construction home I'm building. My shop will be single-user like yours, but I've been told I should probably get a 3hp model (my shop will only be 21x21 feet). Since you've been using the 2hp for almost a year now, have you had wished you'd gotten the 3hp unit, especially after the filter/system gets full or clogged?
No, I have plenty of power. The JDS system has the automatic electric stepper motor and paddles that knock the dust off the filter every time you turn the unit off, so I have experienced no loss of suction. Congratulations on your new shop set-up. Exciting, isn't it?
Thank you for your video and all the work you have done. I am new to woodworking and on a tight budget. I have a dust deputy 6 horse power vacuum and I am trying to establish the difference between a 6 horsepower vacuum attached to workshop piping verses a 2 horsepower dust control system. Can you help ? Best Regards Dirk
One major thing to consider when comparing cfm and static pressure is the filtration size. You can take the identical unit and place a 1 micron filter and then swap out for a 0.1 micron filter and you can easily reduce flow rate by 1/2 or more! Hence this comparison isn't really valid unless they have the same filter micron size. PS, JDS has gone belly up.
I've been wanting this unit since I watched your review early last summer. Sadly JDS manufactures their machines in Taiwan and have been unable to produce anything since they were relocating facilities there. I've been told by the company "another month or two" since June 2016. This week the "out of stock" label was removed and I was excited to order. Turned out I was placing a "back order" and now I'm told 'late spring/early summer' before delivery.... I have little faith that even that is possible. Since they had been telling me "just two more months" for 6 now, and now it's another 4 or 5.... I don't think they know what's going on over there or there are serious problems so who knows what the first batch or two will be like. Time to find a new option. SO BUMMED. I realize this is out of their control to some degree but year long delays (factoring in other comments here) just can't work anymore.
I just ordered one of the Laguna P|Flux:2 machines which looks to be a very similar model. The C|Flux:2 looks identical, with the P|Flux:2 having HEPA filtration and a few other upgrades. Might be worth taking a look since it seems similar in style/design.
Yeah I ended up getting a Delta 2HP and building a giant closet around it for sound deadening -something I planned to do with this unit as well. Very happy so far. Going to add a windshield wiper motor to replicate the automatic "filter shuffle" option that is on this unit. Laguna looks really nice -I keep reading mixed reviews about their service if you need it. Tough to get much from Italy. I'm still really interested in their band saws....
I got an RL 160 and called it done. I rather suspect the RL was not on the list for an Attic installation. You'd have need to remove the roof to get it in.
Fooled me, Steve. I thought your meticulous process was to provide backup for buying the Oneida! I guess that's because that's what I would do :( I went thru a much less rigorous process in my head (also for the compact machines) and ranked them Oneida-Laguna-JDS (1-2-3). But I see Grizzly/ShopFox scored better than Oneida or Laguna under your personal weighting system. That's often what happens when you rank under a rigorous weighted scoring system. I've surprised myself many times by the winner I selected when scoring contract proposals. Bottom line: it is vital to sort out what's important before you start the selection process, as you did.
Thanks so much! What little I know about this process I learned from a lady that ran our purchasing department at the company I worked for. She was rigorous, to say the least... she was also a negotiating genius!
I don't understand how you came at performance rating? Did you base it on SP or CFM or both? Im confused as to how Delta came in last at second highest CFM and 10" max SP, and how did the Oneida come in 3rd with 890 @ 1.6" SP? Please explain your criteria for finding top performance. Great video! -Dan
Thank you for your comprehensive research! I am now considering adding dust collection to my garage shop I am considering two types of collectors and wanted to get your thoughts. One is a single stage Vortex Cone which seems really cool by Jet and the other is two stage cyclonic also by Jet. The brand you opt for no longer makes collection systems. I also am looking at comparable with Grizzly. The new Vortex cone units by Jet are far less money and seem to filter down to 2 microns and do not really get filter clogging issues. Curious on your thoughts on these?
Gary, thanks for watching I am not familiar with the Jet units, but am familiar with the Griz and it is good. If you have the space and $s, you will likely be very happy with a two-stage unit. Over years of messing with these things, I have come to rely less on the micron size rating of the filter and depend more on raw power. Where most of the dust gets into the air is at the point of capture... what escapes around your table saw blade, jointer knives, miter saw, etc. More power usually translates to more CFM, more CFM improves the "capture" at the source.
Thank you for replying. All good and logical advise. I think I will go with a two-stage unit as suggested. The dust collector will eventually be moved to a lower floor below and behind my garage which is a fixed house mounted utility shed which also will house an air-compressor. I will have to do some similar routing of pipes to come up from the Shed into the garage at floor level within my garage. The piping will follow exterior walls at floor level within the garage. All my equipment are on casters so if I choose to work in a different area I would just connect the hose to one of those access ports. My concern is making sure the system isn't under powered for these runs. The run from the shed to the garage is about 12 feet the floor running piping will run in two legs one length is about 20 foot the other length will be about 40 foot. All of this will be under my floor work cabinets neatly tucked away. The shape is an open rectangle shop being a garage where one wall is very long and the other is shorter. with a common back wall which the initial pipe coming up and from the dust collector will be center splitting left and right. Do you have a CFM or HP suggestion for this type of system?
That's a lot of distance. Why don't you email me and we can discuss further once I have your email address. Email me at: sjohnson@downtoearthwoodworking.com
Shouldn’t the initial step be to filter out the units that don’t fit the height and footprint restrictions? That would reduce the units to rank is a smaller subset. That would also reduce the weights that are factored into the final selection. I was hoping to see more on the units evaluation and less on your selection process.
Isn't going to be a royal pain to haul down a barrel full of sawdust from upstairs? I don't have a dust collector so I don't know how heavy or how often it would be a problem...
Did you rate them according the CFM which as I understand it should be a minimum of approximately 800 CFM at the machine to remove the fine dust. With out this capability all the other ratings are just so much hot air. CFM & static pressure is what a dust collector is all about. Take a look at the Clear view cyclone system.
Yes, CFM was one of the parameters in the decision-making process. All of the units had CFM ratings above the minimum required for my needs. Thanks for watching!
None whatsoever... one thing to consider is if you are located in a geography that gets cold... you could lose a lot of your shop heat, but this can be overcome by recirculating the filtered air from the dust collector back into the shop. And insulating, of course! Thanks for watching!
I have the jds and let me tell you it's a good machine. Oneida it's much better you didn't comper the most important part of the dust collector the "impeller" and motor oneida it's the best 16" aluminum impeller with a baldor motor
"Performance" seems a rather broad and subjective category to leave on its own. Even CFM alone would not suffice. And how do you define "performance" unless and until you actually use the machine?
Sorry to throw cold water on this, but the math used in this review is badly flawed on several counts and the results given are incorrect. Firstly, if you are looking for the lowest score, you should divide by the weighting factor. The calculation used in this review would give the best collector for "Documentation" (an unimportant factor) a total score of 1 (1 x 1) whereas the best collector in terms of "performance" would receive a score of 3 (1 times the weighting factor =1 x 3 = 3). This is simply wrong as the winner of a more important category should received a LOWER score. If you divide by the weighting factor, then the best extractor on the basis of performance gets 0.33, lower than the score for the best extractor on the basis of documentation gets a score of 1. Secondly, when for example, two collectors tie for top spot, they both earned a score of 1. Strictly speaking, they should get a score of 1.5 which is the average of 1 and 2 as neither extractor was the best on its own in that category. By doing this, we ensure that the total score for each category is 36 (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8). Thirdly, when two extractors tie for top spot, the next best collector has been given a score of 2 where it is clearly only the third best in the category and should therefore have received a score of 3. This applies where any ties occur. Unfortunately, this means that the results shown in the comparison are inaccurate. The actual scores should be as follows: 1 Grizzly - 20.23 2 Shop Fox - 22.20 3 Penn State - 24.22 4 JDK - 26.35 5 Laguna - 31.45 6 General Int - 31.48 7 Oneida - 31.68 8 Delta - 39.18
Steve, you have been using the unit for a couple of years now. Any problems? Would you buy this one again? I didn't see an answer from the inquiry about not getting the 3 HP unit. I am looking at replacing my unit and I am considering the JDS (because of your video) or the new 2 HP Jet. Haven't even considered the Oneida, should I? Please comment. I am a subscriber and watch all your videos. Great stuff.
+Steve Cartee Steve, I didn't see the other question you referenced, but I will answer that, too (sorry Mr. Lutzer). I am still extremely happy with the unit. So far, there have been NO problems. I did have a weird power outage (big storm) a couple of months ago (a spike, power out, flickered back on, spiked, then went out for about fifteen minutes). Of course I had to reprogram the clocks in the house, reset the television, etc. after the power outage, but my dust collector would not come on using the remote. I went and dug out the instruction book, there were simple directions for reprogramming the remote, everything did exactly what the directions said, and as soon as I did that, everything worked perfectly. Thankfully, no more power outages. Okay, that was a bit of a detour, but I was impressed that the company had included the ability to reprogram the remote and the directions to do it... I didn't even have to call the factory! As far as the question about the 3HP unit, I can't imagine what I would do with MORE power. I actually have to open an additional blast gate when using my router table because the suction at the fence opening is so high I can't move the boards across the opening. I guess if I had longer runs or a bigger shop or ran two machines at once, the extra HP would be helpful, but I don't need it. I would also add that if I am jointing 8" boards on my 8" jointer, the suction at the blade/throat opening is so high that moving the boards gets extremely difficult once the board is almost perfectly flat and making good side-to-side contact with the jointer bed. I just did a quick measurement, and the jointer-to-dust collector line is 31 feet in total. Yep, I'm a believer. Hope this helps.
Scott, thanks for watching! I like the term "ilities" - excellent. The spreadsheet "decision-making template" is flexible and if you want, the categories you suggest can easily be added. I do wonder, though, if it is really possible to accurately gauge things like reliability and serviceability without hands-on experience. Of course you could give these things a score based on other people's reviews, but that might be somewhat subjective. Certainly though you bring up a good point.
I really liked the video, was really sold on the JDS. But they have been sold out on their website for at least 6 months, when I wrote to them I got no response. Are they going out of business. does anyone know what is going on.
Greg, I have not spoken with them directly, but several other people have and the word is that they are in the process of moving their manufacturing from China back to the U.S. Once they are set up, they should have units in stock again. Someone reported that "June" was the date. Try calling them... they apparently do answer or call you back.
I know I’m a bit late finding your video but I would love to use your spreadsheet template but don’t know where to find your email address. Thanks for the great info.
You may download anything I have produced for free at my web site. The address is: downtoearthwoodworking.com Here is the link to the spreadsheet template: www.downtoearthwoodworking.com/sources-downloads
were you a college professor in a former life? lol my simplified "hard knocks" buying guide for any tool... 1) what's it cost a) are you buying a good machine/tool or a fancy name/marketing gimmick? 2) where was it made a) in most cases, probably China; in which case, where were important bits (like electric motors, bearings, switches, servos, etc.) made. b) "best" machines use US motors and Japanese electronics & bearings c) accessibility of replacement parts (when, not if) something breaks... 3) brand/support a) many manufactures are same generic machine with a different label/paint job (Grizzly, Shop Fox, & Laguna all the same company) b) can you get quick, helpful tech support from someone who speaks English, or will you wait 3 hours on phone to get directed to some call center in India... 4) what are you using it for a) hobby use or something you use occasionally or professional use and something you use for business In terms of dust collectors, a 1 to 1.5hp system is more than enough for any "home shop", and has more than enough power for 40-50+/- of piping/duct work to half a dozen machines. Just spend the effort and build it right (air tight & non restrictive) /w blast gates at machines & splitters. Unless you're in a purpose built shop, chances are you're more likely to run into electrical issues (not enough power/amperage, tripping breakers, etc.) before you run into dust collection issues trying to run multiple machines at once...
One thing this video did for me was alert me to the JDS brand. I've never heard of it before. I'm curious, though, as to why Clear Vue didn't even make your list of possiblities in the first place.
The height. Unfortunately because my intent was to install the DC in the "attic" space of my shop, height of the unit was the first "eliminator" of potential contenders.
Within each appraisal category each machine is ranked from #1 (best in that category) to #__ (worst in the category). Then the rank is multiplied times the weighting. Thus the #1 machine in a category with a "3" weighting gets a score of "3." The 7th ranked machine gets a score of 7 X 3 = 21. This would be considered an "important category" with a weighting of "3." Notice the difference in the final score between machine number 1 and 7 is the difference between 3 and 21. Now if the weighting were "1" for a certain category, the #1 machine would get a score of "1" (1 X 1 = 1) and the number 7 machine would get a score of "7" (1 X 7 = 7). The difference between the 1st and 7th ranked machine scores is just the difference between 1 and 7. Hence the lowest score is best, accentuated by the weighting.
Oneida for me. Best quality and made in USA. Remember, you get what you pay for. Cheapest is not usually the best. And I’m not wealthy enough to buy cheap tools.
+downtoearthwoodworks Thank you! Great video. I"m most likely going to buy the Grizzly version as Price is #1, but that JDS one is very nice. I wanted to check out your spreadsheet. Thank you so much for this video...and the spreadsheet...great stuff!!
Dear god, if this went any slower, the video would run backwards! 16 minutes should have been 6:00 to give pertinent info. Have a cup of coffee and get it going!
Even though you didn't choose our system for your shop, seeing this kind of thorough research is truly inspiring! The majority of our customers are just as concerned as your are with picking the perfect dust collection system, an essential unit in any woodworker's shop.
Videos like this are the reason why Oneida Air is always striving to include more and more information on our website to help customers get all the details they need before choosing a system. Thanks again for making this video! It's a great asset for the woodworking community as a whole.
Thank you. Your comment reinforces the universal feedback I hear about the professionalism of your company. There is no question that when using a decision matrix that allows a person to "weight" certain specifications and features for their specific shop needs the results can be surprising. I suspect for a very large number of people, the best filtration (which you have), the American-made aspect (which you are), and the exemplary customer service you provide will be "weighted" heavily and will tip the scales, so to speak, toward Oneida Air Systems. Again, thank you for the very well written and frankly, just plain "classy" note!
I like your cyclones I just wish they were more affordable. I keep looking at them but wonder why a cone with essentially 3 holes is so expensive and if they are worth the cost
You guys are GREAT just too expensive for us who do this as a hobby :(
Made in the USA is more important than price for me. I’d choose an Oneida.
You are not only thorough, but a true genius.
So to all of you out there that think Steve is boring please just move on and keep your negative comments to yourself. Insulting the man publicly is wrong and childish.
I for one Steve watch all your videos and I find them interesting and informative. I always like learning new things and you sir have taught me a thing or two. Nice job and keep em coming...
Nashville, TN
Hey Steve is that you?
What a great way to make the best choice for every individual's different wants and needs. Methodical, practical, and very usable. The number of thumbs down and ignorant comments from wanna-be detractors is merely an indication of their educational shortcomings. Thanks for sharing your wisdom and common sense approach to the decision making process. I will incorporate this methodology in the future whenever I am deciding on a significant and costly purchase. Best to you and yours and thanks for sharing!
Love your thorough video on choosing the proper dust system for your shop.
I happen to come across your video and at just the right time. We are moving into a townhouse with an unfinished basement and my MSO (wife) said I can have the whole space for my woodshop. Your analysis for dust collection is just what I am looking for. Thank you for the very informative presentation. I also like your delivery style.
Regards,
Dwight
I love that idea, it is a good way to narrow the gap on choices..
Another category I hope people will consider is country where tool is manufactured. Too many companies are shipping their manufacturing, and consequently American jobs, overseas. We should reward those who buck the trend of leaving manufacturing to a third party, exploit cheap labor, and generally weaken our economy - its a downward spiral that only ends in disaster.
Well done video - clear, concise, and informative.
The "Buy American" slogan is an indicator of economic ignorance-I do NOT mean that you are a stupid person; I mean that you don't have the background in economics to see why "Buy American" is bad for everyone. It would not only not create prosperity in the United States, it would actually cost us jobs and make us all poorer.
We should buy things where they are the cheapest. That frees up more of our resources-cash, time, etc.-to buy other things and other Americans get jobs producing those things. That's what people seem to forget. Anytime we can use fewer resources and/or less labor to produce one thing, that leaves more for other things we can't afford. If we save money buying abroad, we can make and buy other products.
If you follow the "Buy American" path to its end, you'll see why it doesn't work. If it's good to "Buy American", then why isn't it good to "Buy Californian"? And if it's good to "Buy Californian", why isn't it good to have "Buy Hemet, Californian"? And if it's good to "Buy Hemet, Californian" ... You get the idea. You couldn't get very good stuff if you limited your purchases to only products made in Hemet, California.
A huge part of the history of mankind is an increase in the division of labor. And that division of labor goes across national boundaries. Which creates wealth-and jobs.
When foreign producers sell goods in the United States, it is because they are making a profit. They are supplying goods that American consumers demand at prices they agree to pay. By doing business in the United States, they are inevitably in competition with American firms as well. This has the effect of incentivizing all firms to increase the quality of their goods while lowering prices. This in turn benefits the American consumer, who has more goods to choose from while keeping more of their income.
If Japan, for example, is able to build and sell better cars for lower prices than American producers, allowing Japan to produce cars for American consumers frees up American capital for investment in industries where Americans have the edge (like fossil fuel production) and can find markets both at home and abroad. This in turn has the effect of increasing the division of labor, which means higher standards of living for everyone-American or not.
But doesn't this mean our trade deficit will increase? Perhaps.
The so-called trade deficit refers to the current account, which keeps track of Americans' exchanges of goods and services with people in other countries. If in the aggregate during a given calendar year, the dollar value of the goods and services we buy from foreigners exceeds the dollar value of what we sell to them, that difference is said to be the trade deficit.
But this is obviously a half-told story, because foreigners can do things with the dollars they earn other than buy American goods and services. They can invest in the United States by purchasing stock in companies or corporate bonds. That's good for Americans because it helps create new products and job opportunities. Foreigners can also buy government securities. (There's an easy way to keep foreigners from being creditors for the U.S. government, if that bothers anyone: stop deficit spending.)
The point is that when you count everything-purchases, investments, and dollar holdings-the books must balance. It's an accounting certainty.
If everyone benefited from "Buy American", everyone would do it naturally without being encouraged (guilt-tripped?) by their neighbors or having the government impose high tariffs on imported goods, which usually results in high tariffs on our exported goods and in turn, hurts American exports.
If you want to "Buy American" just because you like it, by all means go ahead and do it! There is nothing wrong with that. But if you want to "Buy American" to help our economy, you need to find another cause.
Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing. Never expected to get a lesson in economics while reading reviews about dust collection systems.
Jo Mama you
Chinese products are cheap because they use slave labor in many factories and run sweatshops in others. Chinese quality is dubious. And the fact that they often times artificially undercut prices, makes them a no go for me whenever possible. That other guy on this thread that said buying American is bad and cysts USA jobs, is a dolt. He sounds like some ivory tower academic, who fails to understand how the REAL WORLD operates. On paper he may make some sense, but in practice he’s full of it.
Down to Earth, that is about the most logical and clear comparison of a tool system investment I've ever seen! Thanks, I'll adjust the weighting values for my own application and follow your lead! Great video concept and fine execution.
Old video I know, but hope you’re still woodshoppin’ I found your video pretty interesting. Hopefully you had no regrets down the road. Hey, you have a very nice space too. 👍
I went through this process last year(2014) and pretty much looked at the same models. I had a different weighting system where I put "the easiest way to clean the fine dust filter" as the highest. I had Oneida dust collection system with an internal fine filter. This clogged often and was such a bear to clean. My final choices were Oneida and Industrial Air Systems. I chose Oneida again with the Dust Gorilla. The quality of a baldor motor alone excels in the performance category. I felt that was a small shortcoming in your rating system. A big factor in performance also is keeping that fine filter clean.
This is a great video. This is a similar method that we've used in product selection committees at work. With every voting member's weighted score averaged together, we get an overall score from the group that is them discussed. I've used it myself when I want able to eliminate enough choices to narrow down my selection. It's important to weed out units that are out of scope beforehand, which this video demonstrated. One thing I do differently is that I never score the price. I take my final score and compare the price of the top 3 units to determine if the difference in price matters. Sometimes, features can be alerted aftermarket for a price. For example, if unit 1 wins because it has HEPA filtration but costs more than unit 2, I'll see what the addition of HEPA filtration to unit 2 will cost. It might make a difference, it might not.
What a beautiful voice! Thank you!
Informative, transparent reasoning and logical. Subscription earned.
Thanks Steve, I just watched this one for the second time and took notes. I am in the process of upgrading my band saw from a small hobby Ryobi 9" which is fine for small jobs and the motor takes a lot to stall, but as my needs grow so does the size of the equipment I need. I have looked in Edmonton, Alberta at Busy Bee Tool, Canadian Woodworker store and Marson Equipment so far to compare. I even went to talk to the salespersons at each store and that just confused me even more. To simplify my requisition of this new piece of equipment I am going to apply the weighting, ranking principles and compare the available band saws in this area that I can find online specifications and features for, apply to the chart and then go ask questions of the salesman. Thanks again, this will save me a lot of hassle, driving around and money.
I had a JDS unit like the one you picked... BIG Monster. Took too much room and made too much noise in the shop. sold it.
Real tough to assemble by yourself. Get 2-3 friends to help. I also will caution you to never let the 55 gal drum fill all the way. Gets real heavy.
I would recommend installing some sort of separator for the large chip in the workshop itself with a way to open a gate to load smaller bags with chips before letting it go to the collector itself.
Finally, make sure all your seams of the collector are gasketed or caulked. Mine leaked live a sieve.
In my new shop I will eventually get the best blower I can and forgo all the gizmos and gadgets and just blow everything out of the shop into a bin.
Dusty Splinters I
Thanks Steve for sharing your though process on one of these important matters.
Really great video. I had a program for decision making (way back in the days of Windows 3.1) but never used it much. Somehow price became the deciding factor for the first 20 years I had a shop. I subscribed, of course! I really appreciate the explanation of your weighting system. My own DC is a Harbor Freight 2hp model - still in the box. Bought it because of the many videos showing it with a Thein baffle (and price). Thanks again.
James Braley Thanks for watching!
What a great method to decide on one of the most important piece of equipment for a shop. Thank you Steve this was very informative. Happy new year.
Derek
Quite an innovative approach how to buy a piece of equipment, I'm just guessing that this is the way you get most of your stuff.
I'll look into your other videos, well done and I hope that your choice lives up to its promise, THANKS.
Had I been able to acquire a JDS unit here in Canada, that would have been my first choice as well. As it was, I was happy to discover we have a distributor for Oneida within a couple hours drive from my front door. So I went with Oneida. It's their smaller unit, the "mini gorilla", and I love it. That hepa filter is awesome. DOESN'T have paddles though, and that's a bit of a bummer. But it does have a remote. And I didn't even realise I was getting a remote! That was a cool surprise.
Hope your unit is all that you hoped for. Thanks for posting.
Nice vid as always. I have the JDS 2100 unit and love it. Good fit and finish and the IR remote is a wonderful addition as is the automatic drum flapper cleaning mechanism. Recommend having a second pair of hands though for assembly. Enjoy!
Excellent job, once again. Currently shopping for a DC unit and this was invaluable. Love a copy of the Excel form. Cheers!
No problem, but you will have to send me an email so I can send it to you (RUclips won't let you put email addresses in these comments). My email address is at the end of the video.
I have a few things to consider. Space is very important since I'm very limited, but I also produce both fluff from ripping a lot of material and very fine particals from wood such as very dry western red cedar. I also have to consider how often I'll have to empty whatever I'm collecting the stuff into. I can very quickly fill up a 20 gallon container and don't particularly feel like spending every few days doing that job. On the other hand I really don't want another fire under my saw..
Steve. I have a 3HP JET 2000 CMF for $200.00 on Craig's list and bought a remote for it. You can just mount the remote in the room with you and run a cord to it from the unit. I hope you considered the weight of the dust and chips. I am building an enclosure with filters for the DC which will also reduced the DB level. I pull dust from 20 feet away when I have to. But like you its just a matter of getting to do it which means no wood working while its getting done.. Nice job on the spread sheet idea
Hi Steve, just to let anyone know if they are thinking of purchasing the JDS collector you bought or any other ones from JDS that they are all out of stock. If you go to their website you will see that there are none available. Also none available from outside vendors. I was going to purchase the one you got based on your recommendation but now I have to come up with an alternative choice. I spoke to their company customer service and they told me they no longer will be importing the machines from overseas. They are having a company in the USA produce them and they are working on mock up prototypes as of now. They said you probably won't see any for sale until the mid summer at the earliest. That really is no good for my needs as I am just about to purchase a Sawstop TS. I can't wait that long. I need dust collection. Just a little FYI for anyone thinking about a JDS purchase. Keep those videos coming!!!
+Larry O Larry, Thanks! Haven't spoken with them myself, but have gotten pretty much the same information from others. Good news about moving the production back here, but not good news for folks that need to make a purchase now. Congratulations on the new SawStop!!!
Great review! Unfortunately, JDS no longer manufactures dust collections systems.
Thank you very much for putting this together. At first i was a little skeptical but really when looking for any tools I follow the same process in my head. I might make a better decision putting this in Excel. I have to wonder how many times you adjusted the weighting on the various categories? I see myself going well, maybe the footprint is a little more important and than the features. Oh, lets adjust this to 4 and that to 5. it'd be interesting to see how much the winners change.
Thank you so much! When I originally did this, the weighting factors for a dust collector were pretty "set in stone" simply because I had an inviolate height restriction and certain CFM needs. Since then I have used the same concept to select a jointer (where bed length was one of my highest weightings) and for selecting a dovetail jig. In those instances I did "fiddle" a bit with the weightings, i.e. segmented cutter vs straight blades, fence height, and integrated wheels versus mobile base when selecting a jointer. I've gotten emails from people that have used the spreadsheet to select band saws, table saws, and one person used it to pick his big screen TV! Thanks for watching!
Very informative video.Your system would be good in choosing most equipment for the shop. Thanks Steve,
Roland
Exactly... a "decision matrix" can be used for anything... actually, even outside the shop. Thanks for watching!
nice explanation of the ranking system and method used.
Steve,
Love your work….I’ve made over 50 cabinet drawers on my way to 100, still making all kinds of new mistakes.
In any event, a dust collection system is in our future. If your offer is still open to share your spreadsheet, it would be very much appreciated and would undouble ably help us arrive at our own personal “optimal” solution which as you know, drives everything else.
As an aside my wife and I learned how to build not perfect, but pretty nice stuff and you made the basics accessible. Very big thanks!
Hi James, thanks for watching. If you go to my website
www.downtoearthwoodworking.com
and navigate to "Sources and Downloads" you can download the spreadsheet from there.
Not sure where JDS is made. Oneida is made in Syracuse NY. Any unit not manufactured in the USA would be automatically disqualified in my rankings. Price is not so much if an issue, as they are all costly.
Thanks for the great video on dust collectors.
I've thought about making a cyclone dust collector for my shop. I see a lot of them in both professional and amateur shops. However, I can't see how a dust collector does any good. I can dump the collected dust out of the bag on my vacuum with very little trouble, so the dust collector would not be more convenient. It can't possibly increase the efficiency of the vacuum, it is just adding an additional load. It might save the blades on the vacuum if I were to vacuum up large chunks of wood or metal. I don't do that and don't know anyone who does. That's what they make a broom form. So what are the reasons why a lot of people use them?
Steve, another great and informative video, thank you very much! I'm in the middle of planning a basement wood shop in a new construction home I'm building. My shop will be single-user like yours, but I've been told I should probably get a 3hp model (my shop will only be 21x21 feet). Since you've been using the 2hp for almost a year now, have you had wished you'd gotten the 3hp unit, especially after the filter/system gets full or clogged?
No, I have plenty of power. The JDS system has the automatic electric stepper motor and paddles that knock the dust off the filter every time you turn the unit off, so I have experienced no loss of suction. Congratulations on your new shop set-up. Exciting, isn't it?
Thank you for your video and all the work you have done. I am new to woodworking and on a tight budget. I have a dust deputy 6 horse power vacuum and
I am trying to establish the difference between a 6 horsepower vacuum attached to workshop piping verses a 2 horsepower dust control system. Can you help ?
Best Regards Dirk
One major thing to consider when comparing cfm and static pressure is the filtration size. You can take the identical unit and place a 1 micron filter and then swap out for a 0.1 micron filter and you can easily reduce flow rate by 1/2 or more! Hence this comparison isn't really valid unless they have the same filter micron size. PS, JDS has gone belly up.
I've been wanting this unit since I watched your review early last summer. Sadly JDS manufactures their machines in Taiwan and have been unable to produce anything since they were relocating facilities there. I've been told by the company "another month or two" since June 2016. This week the "out of stock" label was removed and I was excited to order. Turned out I was placing a "back order" and now I'm told 'late spring/early summer' before delivery.... I have little faith that even that is possible. Since they had been telling me "just two more months" for 6 now, and now it's another 4 or 5.... I don't think they know what's going on over there or there are serious problems so who knows what the first batch or two will be like. Time to find a new option. SO BUMMED. I realize this is out of their control to some degree but year long delays (factoring in other comments here) just can't work anymore.
Got a reply from JDS. While not official it sounds like they might be getting out of the vacuum business. Very sad.
I just ordered one of the Laguna P|Flux:2 machines which looks to be a very similar model. The C|Flux:2 looks identical, with the P|Flux:2 having HEPA filtration and a few other upgrades. Might be worth taking a look since it seems similar in style/design.
Yeah I ended up getting a Delta 2HP and building a giant closet around it for sound deadening -something I planned to do with this unit as well. Very happy so far. Going to add a windshield wiper motor to replicate the automatic "filter shuffle" option that is on this unit. Laguna looks really nice -I keep reading mixed reviews about their service if you need it. Tough to get much from Italy. I'm still really interested in their band saws....
I just saw your video was wondering if getting spred sheet is atill possible thanks
Great work on video mate
Great job as usual. Thanks for the info!
Looks and sounds like "Dr Johnny Feaver" on WKRP in Cincinnati !!
I got an RL 160 and called it done. I rather suspect the RL was not on the list for an Attic installation. You'd have need to remove the roof to get it in.
Fooled me, Steve. I thought your meticulous process was to provide backup for buying the Oneida! I guess that's because that's what I would do :( I went thru a much less rigorous process in my head (also for the compact machines) and ranked them Oneida-Laguna-JDS (1-2-3). But I see Grizzly/ShopFox scored better than Oneida or Laguna under your personal weighting system. That's often what happens when you rank under a rigorous weighted scoring system. I've surprised myself many times by the winner I selected when scoring contract proposals. Bottom line: it is vital to sort out what's important before you start the selection process, as you did.
Thanks so much! What little I know about this process I learned from a lady that ran our purchasing department at the company I worked for. She was rigorous, to say the least... she was also a negotiating genius!
I don't understand how you came at performance rating? Did you base it on SP or CFM or both? Im confused as to how Delta came in last at second highest CFM and 10" max SP, and how did the Oneida come in 3rd with 890 @ 1.6" SP? Please explain your criteria for finding top performance. Great video! -Dan
very informative and practical!
Thank you for your comprehensive research! I am now considering adding dust collection to my garage shop I am considering two types of collectors and wanted to get your thoughts. One is a single stage Vortex Cone which seems really cool by Jet and the other is two stage cyclonic also by Jet. The brand you opt for no longer makes collection systems. I also am looking at comparable with Grizzly. The new Vortex cone units by Jet are far less money and seem to filter down to 2 microns and do not really get filter clogging issues. Curious on your thoughts on these?
Gary, thanks for watching I am not familiar with the Jet units, but am familiar with the Griz and it is good. If you have the space and $s, you will likely be very happy with a two-stage unit. Over years of messing with these things, I have come to rely less on the micron size rating of the filter and depend more on raw power. Where most of the dust gets into the air is at the point of capture... what escapes around your table saw blade, jointer knives, miter saw, etc. More power usually translates to more CFM, more CFM improves the "capture" at the source.
Thank you for replying. All good and logical advise. I think I will go with a two-stage unit as suggested. The dust collector will eventually be moved to a lower floor below and behind my garage which is a fixed house mounted utility shed which also will house an air-compressor. I will have to do some similar routing of pipes to come up from the Shed into the garage at floor level within my garage. The piping will follow exterior walls at floor level within the garage. All my equipment are on casters so if I choose to work in a different area I would just connect the hose to one of those access ports. My concern is making sure the system isn't under powered for these runs. The run from the shed to the garage is about 12 feet the floor running piping will run in two legs one length is about 20 foot the other length will be about 40 foot. All of this will be under my floor work cabinets neatly tucked away. The shape is an open rectangle shop being a garage where one wall is very long and the other is shorter. with a common back wall which the initial pipe coming up and from the dust collector will be center splitting left and right. Do you have a CFM or HP suggestion for this type of system?
That's a lot of distance. Why don't you email me and we can discuss further once I have your email address. Email me at:
sjohnson@downtoearthwoodworking.com
Will do.
Shouldn’t the initial step be to filter out the units that don’t fit the height and footprint restrictions? That would reduce the units to rank is a smaller subset. That would also reduce the weights that are factored into the final selection. I was hoping to see more on the units evaluation and less on your selection process.
Please can you tell me what type and model of filter is for cement or concrete dust. when doing a polish. thanks
Shop Fox is re-branded Grizzly, fyi.
Isn't going to be a royal pain to haul down a barrel full of sawdust from upstairs? I don't have a dust collector so I don't know how heavy or how often it would be a problem...
in 2022, if looking for 3hp or more, it was more advantageous to go with a 5 hp clear vue...
Any chance I can get a copy of your spreadsheet?
Did you rate them according the CFM which as I understand it should be a minimum of approximately 800 CFM at the machine to remove the fine dust. With out this capability all the other ratings are just so much hot air. CFM & static pressure is what a dust collector is all about. Take a look at the Clear view cyclone system.
Yes, CFM was one of the parameters in the decision-making process. All of the units had CFM ratings above the minimum required for my needs. Thanks for watching!
This is a wonderful video. You sound a lot like Al Gore.
Whats the down side to mounting mine in a lean to out side my shop for better sound & chip dumping?
None whatsoever... one thing to consider is if you are located in a geography that gets cold... you could lose a lot of your shop heat, but this can be overcome by recirculating the filtered air from the dust collector back into the shop. And insulating, of course! Thanks for watching!
IMHO another important criteria is Nation of manufacturer. Buy American whenever possible.
I have the jds and let me tell you it's a good machine. Oneida it's much better you didn't comper the most important part of the dust collector the "impeller" and motor oneida it's the best 16" aluminum impeller with a baldor motor
"Performance" seems a rather broad and subjective category to leave on its own. Even CFM alone would not suffice. And how do you define "performance" unless and until you actually use the machine?
Sorry to throw cold water on this, but the math used in this review is badly flawed on several counts and the results given are incorrect.
Firstly, if you are looking for the lowest score, you should divide by the weighting factor. The calculation used in this review would give the best collector for "Documentation" (an unimportant factor) a total score of 1 (1 x 1) whereas the best collector in terms of "performance" would receive a score of 3 (1 times the weighting factor =1 x 3 = 3). This is simply wrong as the winner of a more important category should received a LOWER score. If you divide by the weighting factor, then the best extractor on the basis of performance gets 0.33, lower than the score for the best extractor on the basis of documentation gets a score of 1.
Secondly, when for example, two collectors tie for top spot, they both earned a score of 1. Strictly speaking, they should get a score of 1.5 which is the average of 1 and 2 as neither extractor was the best on its own in that category. By doing this, we ensure that the total score for each category is 36 (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8).
Thirdly, when two extractors tie for top spot, the next best collector has been given a score of 2 where it is clearly only the third best in the category and should therefore have received a score of 3. This applies where any ties occur.
Unfortunately, this means that the results shown in the comparison are inaccurate. The actual scores should be as follows:
1 Grizzly - 20.23
2 Shop Fox - 22.20
3 Penn State - 24.22
4 JDK - 26.35
5 Laguna - 31.45
6 General Int - 31.48
7 Oneida - 31.68
8 Delta - 39.18
Steve, you have been using the unit for a couple of years now. Any problems? Would you buy this one again?
I didn't see an answer from the inquiry about not getting the 3 HP unit. I am looking at replacing my unit and I am considering the JDS (because of your video) or the new 2 HP Jet. Haven't even considered the Oneida, should I? Please comment. I am a subscriber and watch all your videos. Great stuff.
+Steve Cartee Steve, I didn't see the other question you referenced, but I will answer that, too (sorry Mr. Lutzer). I am still extremely happy with the unit. So far, there have been NO problems. I did have a weird power outage (big storm) a couple of months ago (a spike, power out, flickered back on, spiked, then went out for about fifteen minutes). Of course I had to reprogram the clocks in the house, reset the television, etc. after the power outage, but my dust collector would not come on using the remote. I went and dug out the instruction book, there were simple directions for reprogramming the remote, everything did exactly what the directions said, and as soon as I did that, everything worked perfectly. Thankfully, no more power outages. Okay, that was a bit of a detour, but I was impressed that the company had included the ability to reprogram the remote and the directions to do it... I didn't even have to call the factory! As far as the question about the 3HP unit, I can't imagine what I would do with MORE power. I actually have to open an additional blast gate when using my router table because the suction at the fence opening is so high I can't move the boards across the opening. I guess if I had longer runs or a bigger shop or ran two machines at once, the extra HP would be helpful, but I don't need it. I would also add that if I am jointing 8" boards on my 8" jointer, the suction at the blade/throat opening is so high that moving the boards gets extremely difficult once the board is almost perfectly flat and making good side-to-side contact with the jointer bed. I just did a quick measurement, and the jointer-to-dust collector line is 31 feet in total. Yep, I'm a believer. Hope this helps.
What about the "ilities". e.g. Reliability, maintain ability, etc.?
Scott, thanks for watching! I like the term "ilities" - excellent. The spreadsheet "decision-making template" is flexible and if you want, the categories you suggest can easily be added. I do wonder, though, if it is really possible to accurately gauge things like reliability and serviceability without hands-on experience. Of course you could give these things a score based on other people's reviews, but that might be somewhat subjective. Certainly though you bring up a good point.
I really liked the video, was really sold on the JDS. But they have been sold out on their website for at least 6 months, when I wrote to them I got no response. Are they going out of business. does anyone know what is going on.
Greg, I have not spoken with them directly, but several other people have and the word is that they are in the process of moving their manufacturing from China back to the U.S. Once they are set up, they should have units in stock again. Someone reported that "June" was the date. Try calling them... they apparently do answer or call you back.
I know I’m a bit late finding your video but I would love to use your spreadsheet template but don’t know where to find your email address. Thanks for the great info.
You may download anything I have produced for free at my web site. The address is:
downtoearthwoodworking.com
Here is the link to the spreadsheet template:
www.downtoearthwoodworking.com/sources-downloads
downtoearthwoodworks thank you. I did find it on your website and it works great.
Ah, veritas planes, nice!
were you a college professor in a former life? lol
my simplified "hard knocks" buying guide for any tool...
1) what's it cost
a) are you buying a good machine/tool or a fancy name/marketing gimmick?
2) where was it made
a) in most cases, probably China; in which case, where were important bits (like electric motors, bearings, switches, servos, etc.) made.
b) "best" machines use US motors and Japanese electronics & bearings
c) accessibility of replacement parts (when, not if) something breaks...
3) brand/support
a) many manufactures are same generic machine with a different label/paint job (Grizzly, Shop Fox, & Laguna all the same company)
b) can you get quick, helpful tech support from someone who speaks English, or will you wait 3 hours on phone to get directed to some call center in India...
4) what are you using it for
a) hobby use or something you use occasionally or professional use and something you use for business
In terms of dust collectors, a 1 to 1.5hp system is more than enough for any "home shop", and has more than enough power for 40-50+/- of piping/duct work to half a dozen machines. Just spend the effort and build it right (air tight & non restrictive) /w blast gates at machines & splitters. Unless you're in a purpose built shop, chances are you're more likely to run into electrical issues (not enough power/amperage, tripping breakers, etc.) before you run into dust collection issues trying to run multiple machines at once...
One thing this video did for me was alert me to the JDS brand. I've never heard of it before. I'm curious, though, as to why Clear Vue didn't even make your list of possiblities in the first place.
The height. Unfortunately because my intent was to install the DC in the "attic" space of my shop, height of the unit was the first "eliminator" of potential contenders.
Clear Vue is garbage. Wouldn’t touch one.
Is the math here not backwards ? If the lowest score wins, wouldnt you want the weighting ( multiplier ) to be lower ?
Within each appraisal category each machine is ranked from #1 (best in that category) to #__ (worst in the category). Then the rank is multiplied times the weighting. Thus the #1 machine in a category with a "3" weighting gets a score of "3." The 7th ranked machine gets a score of 7 X 3 = 21. This would be considered an "important category" with a weighting of "3." Notice the difference in the final score between machine number 1 and 7 is the difference between 3 and 21. Now if the weighting were "1" for a certain category, the #1 machine would get a score of "1" (1 X 1 = 1) and the number 7 machine would get a score of "7" (1 X 7 = 7). The difference between the 1st and 7th ranked machine scores is just the difference between 1 and 7. Hence the lowest score is best, accentuated by the weighting.
A retired Negan
Wow, this video started off with an advertisement for me.
Is it just me or does Steve sound like SNL's parody of Al Gore?
JDS no longer manufacturing dust collectors😱
It is true! I called them and they are no longer importing them, so Grizzly is my next choice.
Oneida for me. Best quality and made in USA. Remember, you get what you pay for. Cheapest is not usually the best. And I’m not wealthy enough to buy cheap tools.
ok
Huh?
what's your email address?
+Nate Daggett sjohnson@downtoearthwoodworking.com
+downtoearthwoodworks Thank you! Great video. I"m most likely going to buy the Grizzly version as Price is #1, but that JDS one is very nice. I wanted to check out your spreadsheet. Thank you so much for this video...and the spreadsheet...great stuff!!
Dear god, if this went any slower, the video would run backwards! 16 minutes should have been 6:00 to give pertinent info. Have a cup of coffee and get it going!
WASTE OF VIDEO TIME (WHICH ONE TO BUY)???????????
It's pronounced "height". Rhymes with "kite". There's no "th" on the end. Please, please read this.