That time VIKINGS raided Finland and failed....
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- Опубликовано: 30 янв 2024
- In this week's Tales and Tarinat episode I take a look at The Battle of Herdaler! a tale which involves vikings, finnish sorcerery and a big battle!
The animation clip you see in this video is from the great man himself Anttimation: • Finnish Viking Age - H...
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#vikings #finland #history
My next live storytelling event will be on the 15th of February in oulu at Hemingways at 8pm! This is a multilingual storytelling event for folklore, mythology and history! If you would like to participate and tell a story yourself please email: irishinfinland@gmail.com
My man! We still have 2 yrs before moving to oulu! You'd best be still doing these live events when we get there 😆
Just find your channel and it happens to be that I live in Oulu!
See You at Hemmingways maybe😀
Imagine how cool it would be if Age of Mythology Retold had Finnish mythology.
This take is pretty silly tbh. Pretty much based on puöling smt out of air.
Only forest Finns hiding in the woods missed the fact that we have had vikings on the west coast too. There is so much not addressed here.
Vikings: Hey, let's go raid Finland.
**after facing the Finns**
Vikings: On second thought, let's not go to Finland. 'tis a silly place.
It's So Sad that Finnish history is not being taught like this, and a lot of it has disappeared in to the ages. It's almost as if, Finland began when Christianity came and everything prior to that has been attempted to be erased :(
Well, christians are known to be fascists, they want to remove EVERYTHING that wasn't about christianity, they also want to hide the fact that christians murdered people who were not christians
Partially that, mostly because teaching of history often relies on historic records. There are no written records of Finland from Finland before christianity. Everything before that is archaeology and assumptions made based on it.
There have been no attempts to remove pre-christian history, we just lack the ability to properly put into context what is left of it in the ground beneath our feet.
It also doesn't help that written records regarding Finland are pretty rare before the 1400's. That is over 200 years of even the christian history with scant sources of what was actually happening here!
The swedish academy is the greatest enemy of finnish history. From trying to turn us catholic in 12century to re-inventing the language, all the way of preventing sea archeaology in the baltic and refusing to return our dead from the mounds they dug up (along with their gold). ... There's just not that much left of it after a millenia of robbery.
The late great Finnish writer Veijo Meri said in his Finnish history that since times immemorial the invaders could only ransack the Finnish coast. Finns would lure them deeper into the woods, where they quickly got disoriented and scared and fell to the Finns' guerilla warfare. This was a cool video!
Makes sense! And thank you for watching 🤟🏻
There were a document about this at NG about obvious Catholic crusader sword found in a grave at inland Finland, not that much inland very, but enough to walk there back then when they said it took ages. Think it were commented to be from age of more than likely early Christian Viking period, as the grave had some pagan Nordic elements as well, and the one buried there were somebody in high rank, but definitely not a Finnish person.
Which is mainly why the Russians lost.
We talked both snow and trees.
Interesting way to describe "run away"
The Vikings were amazing storytellers with their sagas. This is a historical writing which is spiced with otherworldly elements. At some point, Vikings thought that Finland isn't worth of raiding, because it was too dangerous and because there weren't that much loot available.
The Vikings literally thought that Finns were powerful magicians. The Finns also have always thought that the forest is a holy place for them and you do not want to face Finnish warriors in the forest, no matter are you a Viking or Russians during WW2.
Great story!
As a Finn I felt immediate rush. It really doesn't matter where this incident took place, the people Vikings met were definitely Finns. Let me explain. This is the conversation amongst the Finns:
- Someone is coming
-Who?
- I don't know
- Well, maybe someone needs to go and talk to them
- Not me
- Me neither
-Not me
-etc...
-Ok, lets go to the woods, maybe they go away.
...
-Now they left...
-Good!
-...but they cut some woods and took our stuff
-They did what!
-...cut trees and took our stuff
- Well, that is not happening! Let's go and kick their ass, took our stuff back and make sure they are not coming back - otherwise it might get crowded here. Whos with me?
-me!
-me!
-me!
And not taking anything away from witchcraft, swearing has for long being called "Noituminen" in Finnish. Maybe it has been taken as witchcraft when people were yelling Perkele and Saatana while hitting the Vikings with axes...
Good story! "Sounds"to be very Finnish😂
What you are doing is awesome, massive respect.
Thank you 🙏🏻🙏🏻
What I've heard about the early Finns is that they were sort of famous (in as far as they had been heard of at all) for the potent magic of their shamans, weather magic in particular. I've heard tales of how the Finns deterred expeditions and invasions, just like this one, by raising terrible storms or severely cold conditions on the Baltic sea.
But this did not isolate the Finns entirely. It is also said that this weather magic was a renowned export. The Finns would sell to foreign sailors and traders "wind knots", magical talismans made of knotted rope or string. These talismans would bring good luck to travelers. Opening the knot would raise strong winds, which would be tremendously helpful to sailors stuck at calm seas. I've heard it tell the wind knots were at one time rather famous among seafarers, more famous than the Finns at any rate. I don't have primary sources to cite, but I'm now wondering if Snorri's saga might constitute one.
Finnr refers to wanderers or outdoorsmen who lived on the outskirts of the Germanic world. It wasn't tied down to any particular ethnic group back then. My guess is that it originally referred to non-Uralic-speaking hunter-gatherers in Scandinavia back in the Bronze Age, and this moniker got carried over to many others later. The land of Finland might refer to modern day Finland though, we don't know. It really depends on who told those stories. If stories about witchcraft were passed down by people from modern day Norway then it's almost certain they referred to a type of Saamic people who lived on the coast, which is a form of subsistence no longer practiced by them.
I think the reason for the lack of written records about modern ethnic Finns might be because contacts with Germanic peoples were less intimate in the Viking Age than previously. We know from linguistic and genetic studies that early Finns would have lived amongst Proto-Germanic and Gothic people IN Finland. Early Finns may have been bilingual in Finnic and Germanic, which resulted in the large quantities of loanwords in Finnish and Estonian. Presumably these early Germanic people then would have also learned Finnish, as they were cut off from mainland Scandinavia. By the end of the Vendel Period they would have merged into Finns. Lots of things must have happened - we just don't have any written records of it because Scandinavians only started writing things down in the Viking Age at the earliest, and most of it by Snorri over in Iceland.
There's a bunch of other occasions where vikings got their butt handed to them by the finns in several sagas. There's even a mention in one saga that if one went to finland, they should go in peace
I heard that most Viking sword finds are from Finland. That we used to take them off from them and use in our internal wars. They were revered weapons as they were much better quality than we had in use otherwise.
But imagine now if this is true...Vikings came to invade and we did steal their swords like lollopops from childrens hands: "Thanks! I take that! I have always fancied a sword like this for myself." 😅
Why it seems like it could be true is that I know that we are pretty explosive people under our kind and quiet surfaces. Perhaps it is in our blood to go persek when required? 🤔
You do not want to see berserk. Not in any case.
One twist I found interesting in Viking history is from Estonia where they felt that the Viking stories had become Scandinavia centric since the Baltic and Finnish viking-era histories were effectively sidelined during the cold war in favor of the stories we hear today
The largest number of viking swords are found in Norway, where a big part of the vikings lived, but the second largest number of viking swords are found in Finland, where the vikings did NOT live.
These be facts!
I was about to comment this too. We have found a lots of viking weapons, pendants and items. Two possibilities for that is wars with raiding vikings or traiding with them. Possibly both.
Are they viking swords or swords from viking time?
Many people and more annoyingly articles in papers miss that small but important difference. Things from viking age are not necessarily viking things.
@@vedenalainen need to define what makes a viking-age sword a viking sword. There are several periods and styles to which viking-age swords go into, but practically all of them are built the same way with the same technology and bear the same battle use characteristics. But what we cannot tell is which of them saw real viking (going into viks) use by Vikings (professional killer-looter-robberers who raided the coasts on their sailboats). How can you distinguish a status object from one used to slay infants?
@@vedenalainen Good point. I'm a slave to the articles as the rest of us non experts and just mentioned what I had read. That "fact" seemed to fit the topic of the video in my mind.
If the Finns in question weren't speaking Swedish, the actual name of the raided location was almost certainly not exactly Herdaler, but something that sounded that way to the Vikings. Hertola, Härtölä, Hartola (known to have existed at least in 1398) or some other Finnic name that could well have changed enough to now be unrecognizable or have been entirely abandoned.
7:43 if you are talking about just Tavastia (Häme in Finnish), you should look up "Tavastia (historical province)". The Tavastia you are presenting here, is Kanta-Häme, which is quite new, just decades old modern province, and even together with the neighbouring Päijät-Häme forms just a fraction of the historical Häme. That wad preceded by what historians call "Muinais-Häme" or "Muinainen Häme" (Ancient Häme), the borders of which aren't precisely known, but which according to the Swedish Eric Chronicle extended from "salty sea to salty sea", meaning probably from Gulf of Finland to Gulf of Bothnia (but not comprising the South-West of Finland).
Three reasons why the vikings never came back:
1) No gold
2) Finngävla!
3) Perkele!
I don’t know why, but I got the feeling they sailed up Kokemäenjoki and fought in Harjavalta. It has been inhabited for a long time, and the name has naturally changed over time. Its old name wasn’t hugely different from the modern one and could easily twist into Herdaler in stories passed on for generations.
I remember hearing that Mongol scouts also when they came to Finland saw only empty huts, no people and no riches. So, they turned back, the terrain isn't easy for horses and there seemed to be no one home.
Wasent Novgorod in the south east side of Finland back then and Novgorod survived through the mongol days, because mongols didnt decide to invade Novgorod, when instead moved inside of Europe, so thats why im not sure did mongols ever come to Finland, if Novgorod survived through the mongol empires days.
well Finnish horses did manage pretty well here :)
I'm going to embrace this story and run with it! 😄🇫🇮
Yeah... I mean history books say Swedes went east the other two went west. This story explains why Norwegian vikings never went east again.
@@elderscrollsswimmer4833 😄
Ive always thought that attacking Finland in any age would be foolish, people didnt have much, and that "not much" was fiercely defended, so getting little with a chance of losing a lot just didnt make sense.
There were finnic peoples in sweden before... It was some king who later after sweden started from the south, commanded to change all the finnish names of places to swedish and finnish was forbidden language. History we know, and quite well also where finnic peoples have been, since ancient times. Quite all over the place truly, if ancient sea farers are also counted. Great story.
Ah yes, the great king Gay the first. Vituikshan se ruotsi sitten menikin.
Is it the same story about Vikings going up Kokemäki river to Pirkanmaa? Then Urjala might sound right, bit off water up the hills. However that one story says Vikings where beaten in Lempäälä. That is not so far away from Urjala.
There happens to be many "LInnavuori"near Kokemäki river. Also in that region. Linnavuori translates to fortmountain.
Ancient Finnish king ruled from place called Kainuu, interesting is that when I travelled to north Norway (trommsa) along the Finnish coast I found at the "armpit" of Finland where we meet Sweden, there is place called Kainuu. There has not been found many traces of viking rides here in Finland and I believe there is good reason for it, vikings were smart though and brave warriors, but also very good in trade. Maybe they saw it better to keep good relations with Finnish people, after all this is northern gate to east.. Has always been and thus likely many wars being fought here maybe because of trading posts?? They have found alot of swords here in Finland, I find it pretty interesting that we don't actually know who we are, it feels like our identity is forgotten.
To my knowledge Balegard refers to the coast of Finland, it means encircled by flames. It was called that because of the signal fires given from Hillforts "Vainovalkeat" that were lit around the coast whenever Viking ships were detected.
Finland is something of an enigma in efforts to paint the historical picture. As far as I know there are no known reasons to why Finnish tribes would not have built small towns for trade during early viking age (700 ad). Was it a matter of lack of organization? Seems unlikely. Perhaps not enough people? No also seems unlikely. Not part of any trade roads? Hardly likely since the Swedes and the gotic and gutonic tribes established trade with Estonians, Osel and lands in today's Russia. Perhaps the Finnish tribes were to hostile to everyone? Not likely, vodka was not invented yet. I don't know how much archaeological studies has been made in Finland but one hypothesis could be that Finnish cities or big villages has not yet been discovered. It does seem likely that the Finnish tribes participated in the trade over the baltic sea like everyone else.
They wanted to avoid contact with other people even then 😁
Finnish people like to be alone or in small groups. If you see somebody living, you move 15 km and start to live there alone.
Vodka wasn't invented at Vikings times? wtf? Finns have been drinking booze to honour our beloved Ukko like as long as anyone around here can remember to be told... It's an ancient tradition. Even bears here get drunk sometimes, when the forest berries are nicely ripe...
And I'm quite sure that the reason why Finns didn't build all year villages was that we were nomads... Finns moved around along the seasons, after deers or salmons or seals etc... Probably they had winter villages somewhere far from the South-West coast. Finns had some market places though, those were obviously at the coast.
Also along the coastline was this surveillance network, in which belonged tens of high places called 'linnavuori' meaning something like "castle on mountain". They kept eye on the coast and if there was intruders, they set bonfire that was visible to the next linnavuori and when the neighbour saw the fire he lighted bonfire too.
This fire chain is in Finnish called 'vainovalkeat', translating directly as 'fires of persecution'. And in these places there actually was permanent inhabitants, but not many outsider who went there would've come back to tell the tale.
@@mimia85 Good answer. Did not consider nomadic life style for the southern tribes. Perhaps all of the Finnish tribes were part of what Tacitus described as skrid fenni of the north.
@@user-ed6ch1zv1e before the Swedes came we Finns and Sami peoples lived pretty much the same way and were both probably using same lands even though not living together... our languages have a common root and even our sky god is the same... both shamanistic originally
...it's really really hard to distinct which things are from the Sami people and which are Finnish stuff, and people too have mixed a lot. I'd understood that Norwegian call the Sami people as 'finn' and Finnish people as 'kven' in their counry. Same words are used in other language a bit differently... but that tells how blurry the line is.
though it would be weird if these brutal fighting stories would be written about Sami people, because there isn't even a word for war in their languages, and they didn't fight the Finns either, so why would've they fight then, only with Norsemen..?
Everything north of modern umeå is Finnic tribes. Even today.
In least 1000 years old poet "Widsith" they make reference that Finland had ruler called Caelid or Kalevi in Finnish. Icelandic and Norwegian sagas mention finnish rulers many times through out the Viking era
Vikingir: Hej, let's go aviking in Finland.
**arrive in Finland, encounter eldritch wraith beyond human comprehension**
Vikingir: O, Hel, nejn. **leave to go bother the Angles instead**
**wraith is literally three Finns in a trenchcoat**
True story.
🤣🤣🤣
I think Vikings tended to not raid Finns as much is because Finns were well armed and willing to fight unlike more feudal peoples in the West and South. The society was more tribal and even the language had a lot of variety that can still be found in place names. So there was probably more cooperation between Finns and Vikings. Especially since the Sagas don't exactly describe raids in Finland as going very well. Finns also made a lot of the ocean faring vessels of European traders, wouldn't be surprised if they were involved much earlier. Also Finns were probably useful for the Rus when exploring the East with all the wars and raids and other contact in that direction. Earliest Finnish language was found from Novgorod which was a Rus settlement.
I think the extent of Finnic cultures is roughly from Archangels in the East from what I've read and no clue how far in the South. My guess the center would be somewhere near st Petersburg. There were still 50% Ingrians there until they were murdered in 1930s.
"unlike more feudal peoples in the West and South. The" The "Feudal" societies of West and South tend to fight Vikings anyhow. They also lost and fail many battles as in Ireland,England and Francia. Most of Viking settlements were either taken over by natives or just engulfed by them. The exception being Iceland that remain Norse until today.
There was also some story that viking called Finnish coast as a fire coast because Finnish had a signal fire system to alarm villages ahead that raid was coming.
Tietäjät tietää@@koljkimm
Nah it was because they were scared of the shamans and we had nothimg to raid we were poor af
Wiki says that "Faravid was a legendary King of Kvenland who is mentioned in the Icelandic Egils saga from the early 13th century. According to the saga, Faravid made an alliance with the Norwegian Thorolf Kveldulfsson to fight against Karelian invaders." Faravid is known in Finnish as 'Kaukomieli' or 'Kaukokatse' or 'Kaukamoinen'.
Nice that you mentioned witchcraft. Witch (not sorcerer) used to be a respectable male job. Basically the doctor and a priest of a village. And since it was an important part of Finnic societies, when the witch hunts started they never really took on in Finland. I mean, if someone came to your town and said "please kill the most important person in your village", it probably wouldn't go that well. By Hiisi, why would Finns do that?
Anyway, just came across this video in recommendations so you may have already talked about Finnish witches. Going to check that next.
We have a story in Savonia dated to about 1100. Men with the cross came with swords first and damned the local folk with hostile Seita from Tavastia. So they got instructions how to move through the lakeside and destroyed totemic temples. Also important note is, savonian paganism is a bit different from western finnish, its more kalevala style poem and tell, so this story (probably never written and more of an anecdote about not coming with peace and trade to our land). Savonian folk tales are alot more based on trade, having fun and party during summer, hunting elk during winter usually.
Would love to attend this event, sadly I live in Helcity so it's a no go, never really heard Finnish mythology talk in English except of you channel before, and sure would love to hear it live!
Different animals are very important, bears are somewhat sacred, or atleast if you ain't threatened by one, you should do no harm. Their hibornating abilities are seen as rising again from the dead and being very dangerous if approached. Different thing is if a bear wanders on your yard. Birds carry different meanings, seaguls landing on your porch, according to my grandma means someone is dead. A raven is our best friend and a way leader.
Loved the fact you included the most important word of our people when telling story and having the visuals drawn in.
PERKELE!
The description of both having an considerably large enough "army" etc does not fit any sami descriptions. i would not believe the sami drove off vikings raiding
Could rather be the karelians while they collected tax in sami lands though
There is some material that say that finnish tribes (/language) extended to just north of Stockholm centuries ago. Maybe the place of this event was still finnish speaking.
The area known today as Finland Proper (Varsinais-Suomi, Egentliga Finland) is what originally in the Middle Ages was called Finland. Tavastia (Häme, Tavastland) and the other regions were distinct from "Finland".
Thank you so much for teaching me about my Finnish history, culture and mythology. ❤️
My pleasure 🙏🏻
The Viking age comes to an end around the same time in Finnish folklore there is a legend of Finns committing to a grand and successful plundering and pillaging journey to the west.
Coincidence?!
"SHUT IT DOWN!" -Museovirasto
It's funny (and sad) that I actually understand this joke...
@@IrishinFinlandWatch out for Museovirasto infiltrators at Hemingways'. Be careful out there!
The Finns played "Meidän peli" (Our game) already that early!
there is some old viking text, that some viking "warlord" say that finnish puolple are too stubborn, no worth a risk. :D its true. denmark and sweden might have those old text.
Yh, we were that grazy already at those days that even Vikings left us alone!! 😂😂
We were left alone because we were good at magic, so much so that vikings kidnapped couple guys for themselves, to use our magic against their rivals. Maybe not feared outright, but better to respect and revere from afar.
Great video! Thanks!
Interesting. What I learned is that Finns lived in Northern areas long before Sweden and Norway existed. Norway has Finnmark and other places with Finnish names. Sweden has also Finnish names on most of the villages, lakes and places especially in Northern parts. So, "Land of the Finns" in the past can also be in areas in Sweden and Norway.
Yes, Northern Sweden was mostly inhabited by Finns centuries ago
There was always intermarriage between Swedes and Finnish people.
Yes, both norway and sweden belong to Finland but because we are so lovely and nice people we gave both land away😂 so sweds could so some preciation in eurovisions
Who they called "Finns" back then are who we call Sami today. They established them self in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia when they started reindeer herding about 2000 years ago.
@@bongfuhrer They came already after the last Ice age. Sami and the Finns moved in from Siberia when the ice melted cleared lands. Sami DNA is not wide spread among Nordic peoples. On other hand, what I read is that almost all blonde and blue eyed persons in Sweden, Norway and of course Finland has Finnish DNA. The Germanic moved in much later and mixed with the Finns and "became Swedes and Norwegians", not all of them but my best guess all the blondes have this heritage.
Love your channel Brother! Inspiring work. Putting good things into the world.
Thank you 🙏🏻
Thanks for the vid mate.
Väinämöinen was a minor god of creation, present when sky was placed. He is not a mere sorcerer as Smith Ilmarinen is not a damn blacksmith.
Not to mention Auringonneito or Tapio tarhoineen
Very nice illustrations! But summation: We went to raid, sneaky people took all their stuff where we couldn't find it. We heroically retreated to our ships, but their sneaky wizards made a storm, which we heroically battled until we had to put ashore. Then there was a battle somewhere, but we were heroic, signed the Vikings.
Sounds like a big excuse to be honest.....
About 20 kms from their then possible landing site (the ground has risen here a lot, so the possible landing is north of the present shoreline) are two possible places, other called Härköilä and the other Härkölä. The saga mentions that they were able to return to their boats overnight (?) ,so in that case, that distance is possible. And as they had no idea how wast Finland is, they must have thought that they had traveled long way... As forests there are dense at places, they must have been terrifying to the vikings. But, as the summer night here is short and not very dark, to take advantage of the darkest hour, the battle must have been at midnight, and they could run after it in almost daylight making the 20 km escape possible.
Great video once again. Thanks!
Thank you!
, have wondered about how Finland is not mentioned on sagas too much. Because sure as Hell Vikings did visit Finland, but as they say "ei jääny lapsille laulettavaa" roughly translates to we will not sing to our childrens about this. I guess that comes from there...
It usually means a botched Job , sometimes empty fishing trip, sometimes much worse. Anyway something you dont want your child to remember.
Finnish has a very large layer of Proto-Germanic loanwords in the language. You'll notice that the more modern Germanic languages got the less loanwords in Finnish. Gothic loanwords still exist in some quantity, but by Viking Age the loanwords got rather scarce. Then all of a sudden you start getting an influx of Old Swedish loanwords, which I'm sure you know why. So why wasn't Finland not talked about in the sagas? Because that was probably a period when Finland and Sweden were most isolated from each other. Or perhaps not isolated but independent. Sweden had to use force to integrate Finland back into the Germanic world during the crusades.
Felt so strange to hear a place I used to be a regular of, to play the boardgame Go, suddenly mentioned here :D... now back to the video
Yes. It happened in 1008 AD - around the times when western finns still mostly lived further south. Olof came with ships and men, got on shore to raid but found the inland village empty and stripped, when he turned back to march back to the boats he got ambushed. With just a ship full on men out of many he made away, but a storm was rising, yet he chose that instead of the finns who weren't through with him yet.
Olof sailed north to northwest with the finns on his tail by foot land, finally losing them by crossing to northern sweden.
About going through the country and coming from a bottom end: makes more sense when you think of the early Finland, like Pähkinäsaaren rauha -border (1323) shows Finland to be really the southern and southwestern part of what we understand as Finland today. So, going through the Peninsula that was Finland back then, would actually bring you out from the very southern bottom of it.
PS. Weird thing about this channel is that it makes me want to play Skyrim, although I am very much a Morrowind fan.
It would be intresting to know what Vikings counted as a Finland
there were several old Finnish tribes, one tribe that influenced a large northern area, the Kvens, in the light of other sagas, went to the east to fight against the Viena Karelia tribes, in other sagas there would have been 300 Kven warriors with the Vikings fighting in the Novgorod area,, well, in any case, the Kvens' territory was a massive northern Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Kuola's Bjarmia/the northern parts of Viennese Karelia (the western shore of the Viennese Sea) Finnish Kainuu Kajaani raahe, Note. Swedish Kainuu (kalix, Överkalix, Matarengi from the other name övertorneå) and Ylitornio's Kainuu village, and Finnish Kemi And Viena's kemi, Viennese Kemi is therefore near even today the names of the places are the same, e.g. Kaleva uhtua, usmana, suiku, kostamus, etc.
In northern Norway, there is still a Kveen minority that speaks the same dialect (Mään language) as the Torni river in the valley and the Kalix river runs along the same lines with that heartland. So where was the Kveen's longest-preserved area and Ruijja's echo in the magazine in 2005 was a Norwegian investigation and interpretation of a large grave discovery in northern Norway whose mound size was massive (60 meters) and the researchers knew how to tell that it is not the grave of a Viking king, but the locals had traditionally said that it was the grave of a king and it was called the king of Kainuu. Nowadays, the northern region is strongly changing history, because the latest studies of the University of Lulea have confirmed that iron slag deposits were studied in these regions by radiocarbon measurements in the regions where the findings were found, and they were found in northern Sweden, northern Norway, northern Finland, in addition, giant churches are very close to these areas and when we compare the change of the water border, if only in Luleå, for example, Gammelstad retreated four kilometers to dry land 250 years ago, so what kind of water bodies were there 2000 years ago. you can find 314 Queenland and the country of the Queens also from a later period, and such a saga also exists where the king of the Queens asks a relative for help (he is a Viking king again) when in the east the conquerors push into the territories of the Queens, i.e. the whole of Scandinavia has practically been the territory of the Sami and Finnish tribes and Now comes the Bomb ,why the Sámi language didn't disappear from these areas even though Christ's faith also came to them,why our language didn't disappear from these areas (northern Norway and Tornijoki valley) even though Christianity came to them too,how did the Vikings stop speaking their own language when Christianity came to them too (were they weak nation), because the Viking language is spoken in Iceland and Germanic languages are spoken in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, i.e. they are the importers of Christianity, to this can be added the measurements of 11, 22 and 33 kilometers that can be found between Tornio Aavasa and those measurements were found by accident when Maupirteus measured the roundness of the earth in the 18th century and came across those measurements in that area, and the distance between the two famous seida in central Lapland is that 33.3X 3, that is, almost a hundred kilometers in the west-east direction, these same
Thanks for this one! I didnt know where this one origined from but I've heard this one in shorter length before and just mentioned "vikings came to Finland and soon left" withouth telling a story was there a fight or were they friends or the land too hostile for living/having no value.
Why is the consept of Vikings retreating somehow surprising? Vikings weren't fearless, to be fearless is to be dead. They raided settlements and monasteries when they calculated that they would win and pay was worth their while.
I have learned even as a child that the Vikings never really raided our towns or peoples. I think it was a combination of deterrance by people eager to defend their homes and that there were not too much loot to be found here so it wasn't really worth while to come here. Also there was a long tradition of witches and sorcery here and I think the Vikings got that point very well.
It is kinda interesting (edit: interesting if you compare to the modern finns who don't really belive in anything, not in magic or in religion. Although the anti religiousness is just a modern fab that has gotten a bit out of hand, I think) that we have had such long tradition of Finns being powerful magic users from time immorial to recent centuries. The Sami have been know to have powerful shamans and there's been long tradition amongst other scandic peoples to come here for help in curing various ailments or seek telling of future from them. And one even more recent example is from the age of sail and continuing to early 19 hundreds that it was considered good luck to have at least one Finn in every sailing ship because the Finns control the winds. Have you heard of that one?
It is the same thing with pirates of any era. If you can't do some serious risk vs reward calculations you are not a good viking/pirate.
In the classic book " The Sea Wolf " Finns were despised by the captain of that ship and many sailors of that period because of their powerful wizardry. It was said, if you had a Finn on your boat he could control the wind and sea if he wished and they would screw up your voyage at the drop of a hat if they got mad about something or were inclined too. It could actually be dangerous to be a Finn on a boat, you may get blamed for any misfortune that befalls the ship or its crew. The captain in that book told of times him and his crew had to tie up and basically torture Finnish wizards who were sailing with him to get them to bring back the wind or clear the fog or whatever.I think he mentioned that they would never admit to it, and would always swear they're not wizards and haven't cast any spells. Anyway, he refused to sail with Finns and was always paranoid one of his crew was secretly Finnish. Great Book.
I have Irish and viking heritage as well. My clans patriarch married into a Nordic royal family, just like his father and his father before him. Many Finns with Swedish heritage have Scythian ancestry just like the Gaels, actually. The Geats and Swedes both originated from Scythia.
That is a fantastic heritage you got there!
@@IrishinFinland Fantastic heritage? You mean the BEST heritage. I'm so inbred with the Wulfings my Scottish clan is considered Nordic in heraldry. We are a sept of a different sept that was already inbred with the Wulfings. They changed their name to Bonde. One day I need to edit the Wikipedia article on heraldic ordinaries- it'll say something like "a heraldic ordinary is an indicator of genetic equity; to put it bluntly the more ordinaries you have on your coat of arms the better person you are." Want a giggle? Compare Trumps coat of arms with mine. It's the best heritage, the best.
I’m pretty sure that the Scythian heritage that Finns have is much older and stems from the time when the Proto-Finnics still lived in the Volga area.
@@vasara2385 I have no idea. The Gaels come from a Scythian prince circa 2000AD, the time of the Jewish Patriarchs. The Geats are a Scythian branch as well, they were a more Eastern tribe called the Jats, before the Aryans invaded India. It all goes back to Gog of Magogia, the Japethite, and allegedly to Cain on the female side if you believe in the red hair curse.
Red hair curse? More like a blessing if you ask me >.>@@KyIeMcCIeIIan
Great content! I would love to go to Tales and Tarinat but Mäntsälä is a bit far from Oulu.
Ahhh that's okay! Working on a way that people who can't attend can still watch it!
@@IrishinFinland That is Great!
Priceless!!!!❤❤❤!!!
i feel like the music under the narration could be omitted or at least turned down quite a bit. the lore is great tho. also it took me a while to get that you were trying to say herdaler and not hurdler. :D
herr-daa-ler.
Yes, the volume could be a little lower, but I would not take it away. It did create ambience and supported the story well.
You have used a translated version. Which word did Snorri Sturlason use for Finland?
The battle of Herdaler, could it be Hartola which is very old place. It is pronounced similarly to 'Herdaler' Only Hartola is in the middle of Finland and that may not be the case.
Harjavalta is also a possibility - an old place too. Then there is 'maankohoaminen'-phenomenon which made inland waterways very different than today.
**cackles in Finnish**
There is an island in the Turku/Åland archipelago called Jomala (if I remember correctly, Denmark also has an island called Jomala, only bigger. The name Jomala is very similar to the Finnish word for god). According to the story I heard, the Vikings attacked the village on the island. The Vikings arrived at night and noticed a handsome wooden god with a thick gold chain. One of the Vikings broke the gold chain with an axe, and the resulting noise naturally woke up the happily sleeping Finns. The Finns were a bit upset that their tree god's gold fairy had been stolen and decided to hit the thieves with pointed sticks (they ran out of bananas), arrows and, if possible, a mallet. In such a situation, stabbing the Viking's liver with a knife was not considered a dirty trick, but a downright commendable act. They put on helmets made of hedgehog skin and shot arrows cunningly but with remarkable accuracy from the shelter of the trees. The Viking sailors had to shamefully retreat to their boats, and one notable youth was shot in the stomach by an arrow, completely lost his temper and died. The story doesn't tell about what happened to the goldsmith. Probably the Vikings took it with them and the Finns were terribly angry and spoke badly about the Vikings, but it didn't help at all. A handsome stone was erected for the dead Viking youth, I wonder if it was in Gotland.
Don't know if you are just pulling his leg but the actual story is about Bjarmians. Tore Hund who opposed Christianity attacked them and took down their Jomali-statue etc. Wikipedia has Finnish article about Bjarmia. It was around Vienanmeri.
@@artofstormdancing3319 A few decades ago Yle (Finnish radio broadcasting company, like BBC) broadcast a history serie called The Viking Age. The program was quite thorough and I read many Viking sagas then, I even bought many sagas for myself. It is very possible that I have confused events and places in my mind. I must re-read some of the sagas, the Viking sagas have excellent hilarious black humor. I don't remember the name of the Viking warrior who, after opening the door somewhat unexpectedly got a spear in his stomach, coolly stated that broad-tipped spears are back in fashion.
look for name Hertto (not herttoniemi) name is found around water ways, i hve no idea what it means
Hey bro. Stop explaining yourself. You are sold already when bringing the story up and shortly explaining it's roots. 🙏 No need for overhumbility. Like your style. Keep going. Trust into yourself 💪
Vanha Suomi mainittu! Juvan torille!
0:58
The second pronounciation is way closer to correct as far as I can tell.
It's a clearly norse/Swedish name.
"Dalar" being the word for "valley" or valleys or something like that (I'm not an actual Swede, I live in Norway).
I'm not 100% about the "Her" part, it could mean army or something?
6:35
It was a recording of existing oral traditions.
And oral traditions have a tendency to last a surprisingly long time.
There's literally stories that has survived in oral traditions in some cultures from as far back as the ice age (the Aboriginals in Australia have stories of events that's 40 000 years old, and the story of a great flood from the bible might possibly be one of the floods happening as sea levels rose again when the ice age came to an end rapidly flooding a number of place as the land barriers holding back the water gave way rapidly)
Where there changes?
Possibly, but people had a far better memory back before writing as they didn't have writing as a crouch to lean on.
End of the video, you're making a whole host of assumptions that you don't really don't have foundation for...
Finns is a concept we used for Finno-Ugric people, just like Dutch used to be a term used by west Germanic peoples referring to themselves, including Germany, the Netherlands and elsewhere, long before Germany as a country existed and across many ethnic groups speaking west Germanic languages that while related still considered themselves separate peoples before the rise of nationalism.
And instead of assuming that Snorre got Herdalar wrong, consider the possibility that it might be *we* who got it wrong?
There's a number of possible candidates for the name.
It's not just stories that changes, place names do too.
The Finns are extremely tough and a little crazy. You don't fight them. Ever.
Why not 😄 we are humans too
Yet the Swedes conquered and held Finland for hundred of years 🤷
@@jimmywayne983 conquered? No. It was a political and economical thing.
😂
@@jimmywayne983 not really ,yes and no. If you think about it different way. There was no "Finland it was just big area of nature. Sweden just make some base s in here. We just live there and here minding our own business. So few was living here in that time so why would some forest finnish people mind how was "holding the land. It was proplem only when you dudes want taxes and push religion here. 😁 also we did fucked up with Saamelaiset you also and Norway . Im sad because of it.
Karjaa town is the inland neighbour of Inkoo, and through it runs Karjaanjoki (Mustionjoki) which is the only possible waterway in the region big enough for longships to travel inland. I believe Karjaa could be the historical place for the saga events in Herdaler, valley(s) of [her/har/kar]. Karjaa is known to be a significant settlement since bronze age. fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustionjoki
That's very interesting thank you!
There is also a place named Härdalen in the Åland Archipelago. I believe that it would fit the geographical descriptions of the saga quite nicely.
7:33 My guess is the Old Norse concept of Finland was any place speaking:
* Estonian
* Finnish
or
* Sapmi ...
As Herjedalen is a place where a certain subset of Swedes were living as a kind of colonists among probably Lapps, I think Herdaler _may_ actually have been Herjedalen in modern Sweden.
As well as any other Finno-Ugric language.
I very much doubt that it was Herjedalen he was referring to...
@@Luredreier Herdale?
Also names change with language, because names usually means something so it is just translated to another language.
units of measure can be found in southern Finland, in the area of Finland proper and elsewhere, such that the radius of a circle of 33 km, which always intersects the site of a new church, and 11 and 22 and 33 are also realized in other matters there, but when there were no churches in Lapland and the conquest was done so massively, what happened in southern Finland, i.e. what were those places before the churches were built in these places in southern Finland. It was significantly warmer in the north
when large trees (pine trunks) have been found in anoxic conditions in the lakes in the fells, the research has reached 7,800 years back in time and oak has grown in the Oulu region, with this information you can try to convince researchers and just the dimensions of the distance and the research of iron production 2000 years ago is too much for many scholars today hard word to have to go to the bar in the passing lane and forget the whole thing.
The site of a church in Finland is a really interesting topic! Need to try and make a video about it!
There are remains of oak trunks in some swamps up to Inari region. Estimatedly around 1000years old.
We Finns did actually few times go to Norway to raid as a revenge but mostly we just traded with everybody since our coast line is full of islands where there was pyres to warn villages from raiders, thus raiding us was hard but we had few battles with them. We were more involved with Rus Vikings than Vikings.
Before watching the video, my guess is that they just did not find enough valuables to risk raiding us :D
Yes 😅 I think that those 2 reasons...We did fight like forest devils and what ever we had to steal was really not worth of it...
Our valuables were really well hidden elsewhere. Perhaps there is treasures hidden under stones in the forests everywhere 🤔
Shows great courage to touch this subject!
One practical aspect is the difficulty of sailing in our waters. It’s very different (more shallow) than what pre-Norwegians would have been used to. Things are miniscule and suddenly in the middle of what seems open water there may be not much water to speak of.
In those days, this must have been scary. If I were a Viking, I’d rather sailed the southern flank of the Gulf of Finland.
it has to be with the fact finnish hunters and farmers being good with bows and stalking
Expert's 👌🏻
There used to be great men of renown who had magical abilities as in the Kalevala stories. Usually the leader was a person like this who could put a curse onto a whole enemy army.
Interesting !
Mongols never come to finland to get beaten badly.
Swamp, river, dense forest, up hill, down hill, cold, cold, ice, snow, rocks. Mosqitoes, biting flies. Warriors, shamans. Strange language. No gold, no silver, no roads, no maps.
@@i7Qp4rQ lots of exuces no balls to attack Finland.
Genghis Khan lived in 12th century 😊 but anyway
"They went right up trough the country"
That still can mean town of Inkoo if they came from west. That means they have sail days trough Saaristomeri where is thousands of island and it's hard to realize you are still sailing on seawater. Many of these islands had people living on them so days sailing past them can get impression that you have go trough a country.
Especially because Inkoo comes right after Saaristomeri and the view is different from that on.
Maybe this story refers to this area: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnskogen
To my mind, härje sounds like Swedish plural for huri / hurja, Finnish for wild/fierce. In Karelian huri and Estonian hurjutada refer to frighten. Huri is a common ancient word for such in the Ugric family.
It would be great to have time to drive to Oulu. ☺️
How would it be possible for those Norsemen to land on the coast and just walk up through Finland to half way or even the north the whole country back then would have been for the most part a dense dark forest, I doubt he got 20 miles in land before he was taken out by the Finns. But I suppose bold sagas need bold distances.
No, they sailed up a river in a boat.
When they got out of the boat and into the forest they were dead men walking.
@@SatumainenOlento a boat makes sense. They probably should have stayed on it.
Vikings went rowing up rivers all the time. That's how they ended up in Constantinople, starting from the Baltic sea. That kind of lends credence to the idea that the location could even have been Hartola, which is more than 100 km from the (current) coast.
the only reason ever that i am happy to be living in oulu!
they sailing up a kymi river to the saimaa lake
Original Tavastia was way larger than the map you showed.
Perkele! :D
We never had much of man power, but we had tactics. We´ve been outnumbered in so many fights, wars, concuers that we have had to invent guerilla tactics in thousands of years.
We also have sisu and such a rage that even Norsk viking berserkers couldn´t have.
So the vikings were affraid of Finns, Swedes had Finnish soldiers Hakkapelitat that were affraid by other nations, English learned to fear Finns after loosing raid in Kokkola and Russians started to fear Finns at the winter war.
Even that we are mostly peacefull and relaxed nation for over all. It might better not to piss off a Finn 😂.
Good message to Putler should he be comtemplating anything dodgy: So, you have chosen Death...
@@emankcin1701 I don´t think that he would ever attack to Finland. How ever i don´t like either that we have provoked him. It is very stupid politics to show him arse and annoy him. So far we have destroyd all trade relation ship with Russia and might be that we are not going to get those fixed ever. That isn´t good for our economics.
Also the propaganda both side of the border has been massive. Hatered against Russians haven´t been this high for decades and propably same thing upper wise as well.
But after mr. P is out of power and there comes new leader, then we might be screwed if this kind of show goes on. There might be someone that is furius for all the arse showing now that you can´t never know what then is going to happen.
@@ArchieArpeggio just stop. Finland has not provoked anything. The blame is fully on murderous ruzzia.
@@pehtoori are you blind or haven´t you just not noticed that there has been every other day big headlines on tabloids "Putin this and that" and how bad he is on every possible perspective. Same thing happened 2014 when Russia went Ukraine at the first time.
It is just so hypocrite that when US goes somewhere starting the war and kills much more people nobody gives a shit. Not a single news paper ever wrote same kind of shit about American presidents, except from Trump who didn´t start a single war...
@@ArchieArpeggio Hyvä tavata järkisuomaalainen! Why should us let to destroy our home just to fight for Amurican "democracy" ... that's nuts. Why would Russia attack us if we would've stayed out of NATO? No reason. This is absurd. Hölmöläisten touhuja.
Would it be possible if you did a similar one in the metropolitan area Hemingway's Helsinki,Vantaa,Espoo ?
Just wonder in what country those "vikings" believed they were. I've been living in Inkoo since 1949 but never have I heard this kind of "viking" story. Maybe in Raseborg, the next community to west from Inkoo? There you can still see some remains from old channels dug from the coast towards the inland of Finland🤔
Well. I checked some piece of information that I rememberrd seeing in a publikation of Vikings in Inkoo (Ingå): It might have happened that they were here in a place called Hirdal that is quite close to the shoreline in South Finland. It is said that they got in some kind of trouble with locals and retreated maybe with some losses as a result.
King James mentions Finland and Lapland as places where witchcraft is practiced in his book Demonology.
Book was written in 16th century so the legend of witchcraft around these parts of the world was still living strong. :)
Russians had the same stories. Those combined with their experiences in 1939-40 caused some terror 😁
I've been reading that book for a month now! Need to come up with a video on it for sure!
Not sure which King James we're talking about, but that's probably just because the Finno-Baltic Pagans were the only culture in Europe to successfully stave off Christianity.
Im from N-Finland with saame blood. "There is no smoke without fire", 1 of my school teacher was a shaman, and an other was a witch.
What? Our country Finland has been Christian almost as long as Sweden was. never staved off Christianity 😂@@MrChristianDT
totally not related but i want to add that Sturlson wrote the norse myths under an iceland that was 500 years into christianty already and he wrote it to fit a christian world view to appease the also turned catholic norwegian kings. the story of Lugh of Ireland and Loki of norse mythology have many parallels. Lugh/Loki was revered throughout Ireland and western Europe. he was potrayed later as a traitor and as satan or lucifer himself, as he was somehow related to Fire and trickery. He freed ancient Irish folk from slavery. the Folk who was oppressing named Fomorians are said to be coming from the sea and later related to sea raiders. i am sure they were coming from mainland europe. as some Scandinavians and Frisians also had turned viking in the past. To me much of what Snori wrote was in a sense coated in catholic propaganda in order to change history and change the way people viewed the world under a catholic rule.
I've also heard that viking used to scare their children with stories about finns.
Working on a video about that! 🤟🏻
Frisians also chased out Vikings several times. side note. i heard HElsinki was in ancient times called rly Hel, just Hel. and that it was a huge capital in the ancient world and was demolished by joint catholic church and orthodox church armies
Need to check that out! Thank you!
Actually, Helsinki was a small fishing village, consisting of a few houses and not much else.
looooool Helsinki was NOTHING. It became a city only because Russian Empire didn't like Turku being so close to Sweden.
…and it was intended to be a cometition to Tallinn - which it failed to be.
@@artofstormdancing3319 Gustav Vasa actually wanted to turn Helsinki into a serious competitor to Tallinn, so he started developing it, but never got round to finishing the job. The Czars did make Helsinki great, but it was technically a city already before that, though it hardly looked like one. There was probably more livestock in the "city" than there were people.
On some subliminal level, watching these videos makes me feel as if I was watching them in an inn or a tavern somewhere while drinking mead...
That's honestly the vibe I'm going for 🤟🏻
I will think there are truth to this as the mentality of the finns is different.
There is a another story about an Swedish King that thought that it was about time for all the finns to pay tax to the Swedish Crown so the King sent his worst and most fearsome Wasall out. That was to bee shortlived as the Wasall and his hird arrived to an settelment, knock knock on the door hrm hrm... a man opened and placed an axe in the Wasalls skull.
That was that, the hird paniced and returned back as empty handed and no more attempts where made, some coastal cityes payed tax but that was it.
Strange Map at 7 :20 , usually Naulavaara is not seen in maps, unless it is a topo map. Its 368...370m (asl) high though.
Inkooo !
If the vikings fear some people you know theyre badass to the core...the forrest people, craxy m.f's