The Pros, Cons, and Secrets of Trading/Prop Firms (+ The Best Ones!)
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2024
- Prop firms are tricky and sneaky little snakes that try and trick you into getting tricked by their tricky tricksters. I found which ones are best, and dove into the question of whether or not they're evil. No, obviously not. They do be kinda sneaky with it tho
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0:00 Trading/prop firms
0:25 Benefits of using prop firms
1:14 Should you use them?
2:07 Downsides of using prop firms
3:05 Apex Trader Funding (for futures)
4:03 The best prop firm and why (TradeDay)
8:24 Tips on passing evaluation accounts
9:12 Best forex prop firms
10:06 Brief tutorial on astral projection
Trading platform: ninjatrader.com/GetStarted _
Risk disclosure: Futures and forex trading contains substantial risk and is not for every investor. An investor could potentially lose all or more than the initial investment. Risk capital is money that can be lost without jeopardizing ones’ financial security or life style. Only risk capital should be used for trading and only those with sufficient risk capital should consider trading. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. Information in the video and the video's description is accurate as of the date of the video's release, but it's not guaranteed to be accurate after that.
Big changes: TradeDay now has: 90% profit split, better drawdown to profit target ratios than Topstep (technically easier to pass), and an activation fee (sad)
Using my link and code here supports me at no extra cost to you, so thank you: members.tradeday.com/?aff=iman - 20% off the funding fee using code: ImanTrading20
Watch the Prop Journalist's excellent breakdown of the three best Forex firms: ruclips.net/video/VYA2Ie4lE9Q/видео.html&ab_channel=ThePropJournalist
can I trade forex such as XAUUSD and GBPJPY with Tradeday and Apex??
@@ilhomislomov6541 no, they are only for futures
Yea I figured and wanted to double check.. bcz on your video 5months ago you were comparing this firm and Apex to FTMO, MFF, 5ers etc(at least on your thumbnail)… so I got confused
Wow bro... that's fucking absolutely nuts... this firm is basically a nun. Fucking nuts... I am going to get an account w/ your code, you def sold me on it... tons of people all over Apex and TopStep but from what you showed here I think everything else is a waste of time and money because TradeDay is overpowered... Waaaay too fair and reasonable to pass up for any other "squeeze every drop of trading juice out of every trader and then hold their profits hostage kekeklulz ftw" firm...
Bro find If they are A book model or B book model. We should only do A book models
Iman, you are absolutely the BEST! Your videos are the most honest, pragmatic, and your dry humor is magic. Well done!!!
Bro i really love your genuine honesty man
With EOD accounts, the drawdown is usually half of the accounts that trails live. So it's $1250 for $50K instead of $2500. Personally, I prefer live trailing with $2500 drawdown than EOD drawdown with only $1250. I scalp for a few ticks with 5-6 ES contracts, I need some room and I lock in my profits quickly, so it doesn't bother me. It always stays at $2500 in my evals and in PAs it stops trailing once I hit $2600.
Thanks for the video man. Just found this channel, pretty good content!! 👍🏼
The funny thing im looking you for quite time now and liked you very much, so ive been in this new topic prop firms and searching for a video that explains and gives tips. So i click on your video because the thumbnail and the underline was good and i wasnt seeing your name and also not knowing it was you. Then the tab opens and I see the video is from you and I was so happy and thniked this cant be better and so I accandaintly came to you, I liked always. Great Video also watch the following.
Love your content and your dry sense of humor. Can do a video exploring the difference between teaching forex vs. trading options.
Thank you :), I’ve got a beginners guide in the works that will sort of cover that. I also currently have a complete options guide on my channel.
Ugh great video, but was really looking forward to that tutorial on astral projection at 10:06 😂
Thank you for informing me for prop firms. Now I know what I'm getting myself into.
can you explain about drawdown in diffrent prop fims after you are in a live acount and making money, does it evolve wuth the growing of the acount?
Do you think this applies to equity prop firms like T3 and Blue Point Capital?
I’ve been looking to do proprietary trading myself but I specifically trade option contracts. I’ve spent all my time learning about them. I know the basics of futures but I have no idea what it means to trade a futures contract
Great video, love your stuff. It's amazing how prop firms don't at least give you the courtesy of a reach around (Check 5%ers daily pause for an example) and punish disciplined traders who have a great system. I'll have to check out the channel you suggested on Forex trading. It's not easy to find one that I trust. I've only been trading stocks for 3 years. I'm still gathering data and adjusting my system accordingly but I plan on looking for a firm when the time is right. I appreciate the honesty and data to support what you're saying here. Much appreciated.
Fantastic, thanks a lot!👍👍👍
take profit seemed like the next best but once u go live they switch the end of day and place a intraday live stop on you witch is when open trades drawing down eats away at your stop
Does the tier option you choose for evaluation period correspond with the live funding amount if successful? I would presume this to be the case else the incentive for doing so would not be there. Can you clarify this please. Thanks
Yes
Hi Inman, I got a question for you that is off topic from this video… what do you think of Renko charts?.. my understanding is that they are based on price change and not time… and the settings for box development can be changed depending on your preference… I really enjoy your videos as a new comer to trading… your perspective is appreciated…
Thanks! Not sure. Honestly, I think a lot of people just constantly switch between different chart types thinking it will change something, when really what they need to do is just stick with the same thing. Of course you have to find something you like, but, once you do, sticking with that is way important than always thinking there’s something better.
Renko is great...
If it works for you: USE IT!!!!!
There are times when it works VERY well for me!
Do Tradeday fund Stock traders or just options & futures traders?
Did Trade Day have a problem with Tradovate the way Apex did?
Are there any prop firms that let you trade stocks?
Any body knows where's the renko charts for Forex?
Hi have you seen the boom and crash ondex
Thank you for his
My only issue is that I trade forex CFD and not futures as I like the MT4, MT5. I just hate Ninja trader and wasn't able to find an iphone app for futures trading
Thank you
The way I look at prop firms is that they are practice accounts with the potential for real money. With those 80% discounts that apex and leeloo always hand out, its almost always worth it as it includes free data and sometimes a platform key. If live data is like $15 and your platform is like $10-20 a month, then those lifetime 80% discounts are worth it just from the benefits alone. Plus you can still paper trade along side those eval accounts, then when your confident enough you can put a few trades into the eval. If you fail the eval, with apex you can just wait for the subscription to renew and they reset the account anyways.
They definitely are there to make money off of new traders, but it doesn't mean they don't also provide a decent service. Trade day does sound like the best option, but those discounts at Apex rn are too tempting lol.
Oh lol I just watched the part about the benefits, and you pretty much said everything I just mentioned lol.
what's the true math behind stated acct equity and actual acct size when considering drawdown, max contract size, leverage, etc? It's not like prop firms are giving out $25k, $50k, $75k, $100k, $250k, etc on a whim. One's essentially paying for access to levered capital w/ acct size equal to margin allowable to carry those contracts
You can use the max drawdown on the account to determine the true size of what you’re getting funded with, hope that helps
@@ImanTrading using TopStep as example
There are 3 types of accounts in the Topstep funding program, which are $50,000, $100,000, and $150,000.
$50,000 - target of $3,000 The trailing max drawdown is $2,000.
$100,000 - target of $6,000 The trailing max drawdown is $3,000.
$150,000 - target of $9,000 The trailing max drawdown is $4,500.
So you're saying $150k acct is really $4.5k?
Yeah pretty much, you can basically ignore what the firm calls the account. The drawdown and profit target is much more important. TradeDay just updated their drawdowns and now are better than Topstep.
@@ImanTrading you can say that about any acct size, though - that's an assumption that one lets their acct go to $0, so trading 5k acct is same as 100k w/ 5% stop, as long as can cover required margin per product. Traders want additional buypower, so really apples-to-apples comparison is more lenient margin on a smaller acct is equivalent to conservative margin on a larger acct - risk per tick/pip/handle is same regardless of margin collateral reqs. Eg, one broker's aggressive $500 margin/ct allows 10 max lots on $5k acct, same as another more conservative $10,000 margin on $100k acct, same # of contracts control power.
I just signed up with TWP to learn futures and they want $20k+ est for life plus 80/20 to start, it for online and with "pros" should I allow this for myself?! What other avenues do I have?!
Wait what? Don’t pay anything for anything - everything you need to learn can be done for free. I’m not sure I understand the question correctly though
@@ImanTradingThank you I was about to do the same . They charge us 20k for the tuition to join and fund our account .
just imagine the possiblities if tradeday allowed multiple acounts i been tryna find other firms as good as tradeday and there is none
Honestly I think apex evals are best for cheap data and practice, but tradeday is where you want to be when you know your fee isn't gonna be wasted
1:19 I would say, rather, it’s a reflection of bad choices with rare moments that make it appear as ‘good’ choices. 😂
Some prop firms never enter trader to actual market, but finance profitable traders with losing ones
What about Elite Trader they have decent EOD accounts?
Exactly I'm funded with Elite and their system is legit.
@@tradingwithtravis6896 big fan of your content man keep it up
@@tradingwithtravis6896 I looked through their help section and I see a 30% consistency rule. Most other places say it applies only to their evaluation period but elite trader doesn't. Do you know if elite trader still applies that rule in a funded account?
can you name some firms with this weird ass trailing stop rule ? you said basically every other
10:06 Brief tutorial on astral projection 😂
Is there any proof that Tradeday puts you in a live account right away?
While I dont view these prop funds as a scam, these challenges are as good as impossible to win . The misconception is always the risk capital. If you purchase a $100k fund, your risk capital is actually the amount of max drawdown allowed which normally is 10% ie $10k. IT IS NOT $100k!. So, if you follow a conservative trading risk management, eg 1% risk per trade, 60% to 70% win rate with an average of 2 times RR ratio; you would need about 80 trading days (>4 trading months) to achieve the 10% profit target. Problem is most of these prop firms set 30 calendar days (22 trading days) to achieve this target. Impossible unless you have a very high win rate or you risk more than 10% risk capital.
I highly recommend using equity curve simulator, you can type the numbers in and it will tell you that it actually is very possible to do and the duration of challenge is not a problem. ill save you some time. with 2:1RR , 60% win rate and 1% risk, the avg performance is 16%+ on 20 trades. i recently passed one [ cannot post screenshot here] 126 trades , 40% win rate, avg RR 3:1. i was betting on avg. 0.3% on trade, with 8% target, and it took me 11 trading days. so it is possible. however, its very hard and will probably take more tries than 1. Also, you probably can pass only if your focus is scalping or day trading. If you swing trade you would have to wait for more favourable market condition [ ex. bull market with lot of trending days]. Last but not least, it s better to choose firm that do have free retry if you end up in profit and dont have trailing drawdown rule. happy trading
Yep
Are you only using one position per move? Having multiple positions at different entry points allows to minimize risk as if one hits stops that turns against you, you can close the rest for a profit. Position size and number of positions is like the cornerstone of risk management. Yeah if you only ever traded one move a day for 1:2 you’ll fail. I also feel like This is ignoring how futures move by ticks which have pre determined dollar amounts the move is worth so you are trying to capture ticks not dollars in futures price action which if the problem is hitting a % based return is key because it actually in one sense makes scalping easier as the risk to reward is easier to calculate and plan for than say a stock that can move a penny one way and a dollar back the other.
@@Coondawgwoopwoop I learned that all markets move together so I decided to not trade more than one pair. It does make sense I trade swing and day trade, hold my first position off the 1 hour and trade on 1 minute always following the trend. Gaining some times 30x on one position, thing is they dont want us to swing trade with their equity based drawdown policy. I found out that is better to trade on your own with your own capital than to trade with theirs.
@@MaRliKfx do tell.
Hey do you know any prop firms that support options trading?
No, sorry. I'm only familiar with the futures firms.
@@ImanTrading so most firms are futures
Yes, and forex
@@ImanTrading which are safer
Nothing is safe in trading lol, that all comes down to the decisions each person makes. You just choose whether you want to trade futures or currencies
Do any of these Prop firms offer Options Trading?
not the ones mentioned in this video, no.
Twp
@@SAMLEE-bb1xpThey actually do not yet. I was just in the workshop 2 weeks ago and they said they are working on it .
Interesting video and informative always love your stuff - reach out ;) 👍
How is moomoo?
Hi mate. Is your 50% tradeday code still valid?
No, sorry, just 20% with my code now. Not sure when the next sale will be.
@@ImanTrading No worries thanks!
thoughts on ftmo?
@$$ spreads
If you know how to actually trade and be profitable, there is ZERO reason that you would ever hit your draw down using Apex. On a $150k account, you get 100 points of draw down. If you are trading 4 contracts(the max you can get on the tradeday account), you would get 25 points of draw down. What kind of trade would you be taking where you're up so many points that you can survive a 25 point draw down in general? It makes no sense. You would be a stupid trader to do that. Would you be up 30 points($6k in profits), then let the trade ride down 25 points? If that's how you trade, you 100% deserve to fail. I'm now on my 10th account for Apex and I've never drawn down more than $600(12 points out of a possible 100). Bottom line is that you need to learn to trade well before doing any type of real money account.
Question have you got a passed/funded tradeday account yourself?
Yes I have 2 life accounts
I can help you pass yours just tell me
@@MaRliKfx
How do you have two accounts when they state that they only allow one account?
why does trade days say a month is that some sort of subscription
All firms that I know of have their evaluation cost be per month. If you pass within a month, you don’t pay for another month.
You're hilarious!! No you're insecure😂
At 6:30 the mistake you are making is that the unrealized gains drawdown is not cumulative. It's maximum.
I have 20 Pro Accounts with Apex and make extremely good money, the TradeDay firm sounds like a nightmare! I have no issues with trailing threshold and once you get to $2600 it stops trailing
MFF looks interesting? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Surprised to see TopStep didnt make it in your top 3 for futures trading
Because it's at the bottom
You are funny man
Funded trading plus
THEN WHO is THE BEST AMONG THEM ALL.???
So has anybody here try any of the funded accounts. I'm looking for one i can trust.
Wammers
Appreciate all the hard work and content...but please, can you stop talking so damn fast about IMPORTANT stuff like this? I'm a native speaker and even I have to slow down the video to x0.75 to catch all the important differences all while also trying to READ what's on the screen. Information credibility diminishes at some point because of information overload. If your going to talk a lot, show a picture with less text so we can focus on what you're saying. If you do show a lot of text, just read straight from it instead of add a lot in between, or else the flow is broken.
Thanks man
mff 😂😂😂😂
sounds like advertisment ;/
Apex is the lowest Prop firm. They did pay you to promote them. Stop fooling traders.
Lol what?
Someone blew up quite a few accounts..🤣
Your review about BigPip funding they look they are going to top the prop firm game
thanks
for sharing this
Trust me it’s not worth it the way they have made it is you are bound to fail and what they don’t tell you about is the tresh hold after you pass it’s not just pass and start getting paid so let’s say what I did for 50k account the threshold was 52.5k you have to make that and then anything above that you can take out 90:10 in most cases Topstep the biggest one only allows you to take out 50% of the profit and 5 profit days and that is 90:10 too draw down you hit that you lose account max draw down lose account that shjt is only good for practice try compound effect trading start with 1k 1 contract ES you only need to get 2 points a day that’s 100 pounds you only scale up a contract when you hit the 1k and then another contract once you hit 1k and then keep going this way you use the market money and not yours
Personally I think it's better to trade with your own money too, but that's not an option for everyone. You should watch the section on TradeDay, they don't do any of the things you're talking about.
@@ImanTrading is there no tresh hold ? So as soon I get funded let’s say I can start taking money out with the profit split ?
No threshold.
The purpose of a business is to make profits for the shareholders.
Prop Firms are just businesses....
Their primary objective is to pay profits (and maybe dividends) to shareholders....
IS this in conflict with the customer's ideal of becoming a 'funded trader'?
WHERE does the funding come from to pay the profitable traders?
(IF the Prop Firm actually executes trades in the market, then the payouts can come from that.... However, it appears that many Prop Firms DON'T actually trade.... Can you then conclude where the funds for payouts come from if the Prop Firm does not actually trade????).
This should all be part of a potential customer doing their 'Due Diligence'....
Also, ask yourself WHY are many of the Prop Firms unregulated by a serious jurisdiction?
Once you start doing business with a company in the Financial World that is unregulated.....
The only issue is having to pay monthly 🥲 they’ll make a lot from the people who contentiously profit and not as much from the losers