The FAILURE of Legacy Characters
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
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Just a minor nitpick regarding the editing: some of the visuals are incorrect/don't really line up with what is said in the video. Otherwise it is really well made, the script is correct comics lore-wise and I totally agree with your point! Keep up the good work!
My apologies. I work a full time job and have an editor who helps me out with finishing the video. He is the best, but he doesn’t know as much about comics as I do, so sometimes he makes mistakes like that. The ones in the video I seemed to miss during prep to post. That is my fault and I apologize. I will do my best to catch it all in the future.
Thank you for bringing it to my attention,
Jug
Honestly I think Wally is The Definitive Legacy character way more than Dick. Dicks time as Batman doesn’t even compare with Wally’s tenure as the Flash.
If we are talking about taking up the mantle, I totally agree that Wally defined it. Dick for me is THE legacy character because of his history as the first mainstream sidekick and the character progression.
Dick Grayson was an amazing Batman. I loved his reverse Batman/robin dynamic with Damian
Richard doesn’t actually want to be Batman though. Every time he takes up the cowl he does it to fill in for Bruce, not replace him. It’s helping his dad out, but he doesn’t plan on taking his place.
Bruce also doesn’t want Richard to devote his life to being Batman. He recognizes that he’s his own man. That’s the whole point of the conversation that they have at the end of the prodigal storyline
This is true. However, I feel things would be better if Tim Drake took up the mantle and Dick Grayson took over as the leader of the Justice League, permanently. Leaving Batman and Gotham City a chance to change.
In my opinion this story of how Batman's rogue gallery, especially the Joker, just keeps getting out of Arkham Assylum is way overdone. It's why we start having stories like the Injustice storyline that question why Batman keeps letting such villains continue wrecking havoc, which is pointless because the most definitive answer I can find is that the owners of DC don't want to make any signficant consequences for these villains that actually stick, since they want to keep making money off of them.
I came to say this. Time and time again dick states he doesn’t WANT to be Batman. And Bruce doesn’t want dick to replace him. He takes up the mantle out of necessity. Gotham needs Batman and when Bruce goes missing or gets severely injured dick takes up the mantle because Gotham needs its hero. Nightwing is who he was and is meant to be.
@@boxingelfis1499 Tim doesn’t want to be Batman either. This is shown and stated several times in Geoff Johns’ teen titans run. The only one who genuinely wants to be Batman full time is Damian
@@Dhampir101980 Understandable. It's cool then, Damian should grow and become the Bat. I think the point of this video is that legacy characters should be allowed to fulfill the reason of their existence in a way that is consistent.
@@boxingelfis1499I think every Batfamily member has their own identity, I much prefer Terry Mcguiness to take the role as the new Batman like in Batman Beyond and have Bruce become his guy in the chair
Had to delete my comment because you mentioned a point i made, Legacy character's will never work as the original always makes the most money, movies, games, and whatever they have in store.
Dragon Ball Z tried making Gohan the new Goku and face of Dragon Ball but it never worked, views and sales tanked, people are just too familiar with Goku.
They can always place the name on them (Bat, Super, Spider, etc.), but nobody should ever expect Bruce Wayne or Peter Parker are permenantly going to disappear. That's as likely as DC and Marvel both going bankrupt and stop and all comic production's (Hopefully no 😥)
Pretty sure you meant to put the older Ultimate Spider-man series in the graphics, rather than the current one from Jonathan Hickman.
Dont imagine anyone really throwing shade at the new one. The series has been amazing.
I was thinking the same thing, im sure it can confuse new readers.
Sorry I have an editor who helps me get these out and that was meant to be old ultimate. It can be confusing and it slipped by me when rewatching. My apologies!
@@JugComicsPlus No worries! If no one comments, it may have not been caught.
Like your commentary otherwise, and mistakes happen. Keep up the good work.
Thank you!
I’m sorry but when would Batman, Spider-man or Superman ever be replaced? I always saw Nightwing as his own character. Also he’s got his own comic run right now
Yessir and honestly Dick should keep staying as Nightwing! But yk comics love to have that idea the legacy character should take up the mantle then go back to how it was
Hey I really appreciate the comment!
Batman has been “replaced” on a few occasions (Azrael, Dick Grayson, Commissioner Gordon, and Batman Beyond), Superman has his son (and really a ton of other super people now) who could take up his mantle and sort of did when he was off planet, Spider-Man Marvel tried to replace with a clone of himself, Ben Reilly, and in an alternate universe, Peter died and Miles became Spider-Man. Marvel and DC do “replace” the characters but always backpedal and undo it. The most egregious example is probably Wally West Flash taking up the mantle for 20 years, then Barry coming back and Wally getting screwed over for like a decade. However, in recent times you might also be able to say the Titans, comprised of mostly legacy characters, taking over for the Justice League was the next step for legacy characters, but it looks as if that is getting changed back in the next few months. I have no problem with these characters being their own, for example Nightwing is my favorite DC hero, but it just gets annoying when they are created to “one day take up the mantle”, then they do, and it is undone in a year or so.
Thanks for watching the video!
-Jug
@@JugComicsPlus yup! Exactly why I said that comics loved to do that where they make legacy characters take up the mantle then go back to how it was where their mentors take back the cowl (yk what I mean lol) but same here bro I LOVE Nightwing I wish I could show my Nightwing but Dick being Batman was really cool I loved it!
@@JugComicsPlus that’s a really good point. But what I more meant to say was that Characters like Bats, Superman, spider-man, flash Wonder Woman etc. Is that they will always stay episodical. They can have amazing story’s but then the torch will be passed to another writer and they will interpret the character.
I definitely think they need to do something with a god amount of these legacy characters. Wally had just as much claim to the Flash title if not more than Barry does as a whole generation grew up with him being the Flash and a good amount of Flash known knowledge comes from Wally. They've been doing more with Nightwing and Miles as of recently so I'm currently fine with that but I absolutely agree with you that it feels like Marvel and DC don't know what their doing with Kaine, Ben Reilly, Sam Wilson, Tim Drake, etc.
He’s the flash in the books at the moment
Oh if only Marvel would give Kaine another solo series! And DC should really figure their shit out with Tim Drake, he was a fan favorite robin once upon a time
I thought I was gonna hate this video, but I was pleasantly surprised. I don’t agree with all of the details, but the overall premise is sound. I’m in for more... 👍🏾
Thank you. Glad the video surprised you and hope to see you here again soon
bro saying chasm sucks while he has a action figure of him on the shelf behind him
Ben Reilly being chasm as a character sucks, but the design is cool
Wally West is THE best legacy character, period. Not only did he grow and mature and distinguish himself from Barry and have his own set of iconic stories and villains, but he grew as a person and an individual, as a hero and a family man.
That's why i liked invincible run. They didn't sticked to status quo and noone knew what would happen next and characters really got a chance to grow.
Great vid! Keep it up man
Thanks, will do!
Love your videos
Brilliant video
I'm just going to say this about Nightwing. He's probably the only character who does not need to take up the mantle of his mentor. Because Batman and many writers basically said Dick Grayson it's basically a perfect Batman. He has all the skills and experience as Batman plus more.
There are many stories line the show that Dick Grayson doesn't need to be Batman! In fact a good portion of dick just being better off as Nightwing. Hell one of the biggest difference between Dick and Bruce. Is the fact that dick will change but Bruce won't.
He became Batman, he's equal if not Superior than Batman in terms of skills, He's the leader of his own team, he's a hard worker, has amazing intelligence, fought along with the most powerful and talented superheroes, and so much more.
So basically what I'm saying is Dick Grayson is perfect as Nightwing. He's not a legacy character, he is his own character just like Batman
I mean Miles coming into Earth 616 wasnt really convoluted since it was explained fairly easily that since Miles gave his Burger to Molocule Man who hadnt eaten in weeks and was being tortured by Dr Doom he made it so that he, his friends and family all come over into the 616. also even if Miles was kept in the Ultimate Universe he would have still been overshadowed by Peter even if he was in a different universe. also Peter and Miles have interacted plenty of times In Both Spider-Men 1,2, Crossovers, Dan Slotts Run, Spectacular Spider-Men etc
Not being batman to me was the best decision, well at least to me I like him more as Nightwing. To me if anyone im good if the elseworld idea of Terry keeping the mantle
Very curious about the new Deadpool
Intriguing
We will have to see how his daughter Ellie does! It’s a different take for deadpool
The only good legacy character is B-Negative
It’s Negativing Time
Barry is Wally's uncle
Hi! Im trying to start making videos like this, what do you use to edit?
I get help with some of these videos but I usually edit in Premiere and I think my editor does too
it's already too late for DC
IN 1O years time everyone will be able to tell their own stories
with SUPERMAN BATMAN and WONDER WOMAN
The editing makes alot of mistakes by showing the wrong comics and characters
I’m sorry. I work a full time job and get help editing the video because I don’t have as much time for it. My editor is a spectacular person and does amazing work, but he doesn’t know as much about comics as me so sometimes he makes mistakes and I don’t catch them. I realize I dropped the ball catching some of them in this video, especially with the Ultimate Spider-Man covers. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will try to do better in the future.
-Jug
you forgot damian
I don't think nightwing should stay as nightwing ever nightwing is something of his own which hes better as nightwing
Nightwing is my favorite DC hero
you skipped
Damian Wayne
Thor is actually not a mantel
it's actually his name
given that marvel thor is based
on norse mythology god thor
But when he lost the powers of Thor in the Jason Aaron run, he was called Odinson and Jane Foster was called Thor. Also in the Thor Corps, Beta Ray Bill and some Non-Thor Odinson people were Thors
@@JugComicsPlus
Thor Odinson == Thor Son Of Odin
because over 1000+years ago in europe
people didn't have last names
and boys were identified
by their fathers name
so Jane foster can't be Thor
dan didio
if you don't know what you're talking about maybe you shouldn't talk about it. there are so many points in this video where he shows things like comic books and different characters, but they are straight up just wrong. like why was superior Spider-Man in the intro? was it supposed to be Miles Morales? because if it was those characters have nothing to do with one another. or when he showed the wrong Ultimate Spider-Man comic, instead of showing the one from the 2000s he showed the one from 2024. and I'm not denying he doesn't have some good points. but what I am saying is that I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even read a single comic that he was talking about. (edit) and I was right, at 4:33 he says "and I know some of you comic fans are going to mention how he returns later on" first of all that is a completely different book. second of all nobody inside the community says "I know some of you comic fans" listen it is one thing to not know something. but to pretend like you actually do is straight up just disrespecting the people that do understand. (also the new Ultimate Spider-Man doesn't suck)
Sorry I wasn’t saying the new Ultimate Spider-Man sucks. I get help from a friend with the editing for the video and they put in the covers and stuff. It slipped by me when I was preparing it to post. I apologize and will definitely work on it in the future.
I have read the Ultimate Spider-Man from the early 2000s and I am reading Hickman’s USM right now. Both are amazing but Hickman’s subversion of some of the Spider-Man mythos is so much fun. I especially like the suit AI that may or may not become this universes’ venom.
I appreciate you commenting on the video. I work a full time job, so it’s hard to write and film and edit so I get a lot of help from an editor to finish the videos. He is great and I am so thankful he is willing to do this for me, but he doesn’t know as much about comics as me and sometimes I miss some of the errors. My fault. I will do my best to correct these errors in the future as I see them.
Thank you,
Jug
@@JugComicsPlus OK with that context I really have no problems now. But I think both of us understand why it is so infuriating hearing someone talk about comics when they don’t actually know them. And this may come off rude, but in this video (and going off my memory, all of your other videos) you kinda sound like you don’t know what you’re talking about
Glad we could sort it out. Not sure how I can prove to you that I read comics and understand what I am talking about, but it’s ok if my videos aren’t your cup of tea for that reason. I appreciate your honest conversation with me and I’ll look into seeing what I can change script-wise to make it more clear to viewers that I know what I am talking about.