I'm on-board if it's a Harvey Dent series where we see him playing fast and loose with the law. I don't want to see a two-face procedural, as much as I love the character. To me, the idea of Two-face falls apart when writers portray him as having a soft spot for procedural justice. I prefer to think that as Dent, he saw the rules as a game to play, and he was the best there was at it; he wasn't afraid to selectively use the rules to make sure he always won, even if it was only on a technicality. The change in him when Maroni splashes him with acid is not just a change from good guy to bad guy: it represents a fundamental rejection of his former world-view. He did EVERYTHING perfectly, but he lost everything in the most seemingly arbitrary manner and the rules were meaningless to protect him. The key is that his core belief that he is exceptional remains central to his persona even after this, which is why he comes by embracing his role as an avatar of arbitrariness.
I like how this show keeps on telling you "THIS GUY IS THE BADGUY" but we keep buying Oz's bullshit. He sells out Sofia, burns a woman and her son to death and drowns his brothers but only when he kills Vic do we realize "oh yeah, he's the badguy."
Ehhhh. Once we find out what he did to his brothers his whole shtick about loving his mom went out the window. He's a sicko with a sick perverse vision of what a mother is. Falcone and his wife and son were mobster scum, Sofia was also a member of the mob with an inflated ego of herself to the point she thought she was moral.
Someone pointed out how brilliant of a character Vic is for the sense that he's there to ground the audience. As long as the good hearted lovable Vic was on Oz's side us as the audience felt like "Oh well if hes staying around it cant be that bad." Thats why when Vic dies EVERYONE felt betrayed. Vic was an extension of the audience. The moment he died and benefit of the doubt died with him.
When randos who we don't care about get killed, no one really gives a damn. The writers knew this and took full advantage. It also helps if a lot of those randos are ALSO violent criminals. Vic was what broke the mold, because we spent so much time with him and got to know him so well. Everyone feels bad when familiar characters get killed (at least those that the audience cares about). It's quite brilliant in hindsight.
Love that they are self-aware enough to make the villain be the villain. And love that they portrayed those actions as horrible things, not some tragic misunderstood backstory that the audience has to side with just because the one who did it is a protagonist.
Same. Finally an actual supervillain project that shows the full extent of their depravity while still portraying Oz as a nuanced character. And I love how they subvert it too by playing into the small-time crook who wants to overthrow those in power & please his mom only to reveal these as just narcissistic plays to achieve his desires. This is ideally what the Joker movies would've been imo. A man who wants to expose the world for the joke it is & ends up coopting a revolution for his goals; all while they believe in him while he laughs at the irony.
@@uchihabomber1296 Agreed. And in that simplicity, they cemented Penguin as sinister & more nuanced member of the rouges' gallery much more than if they went for the misunderstood anti-hero imo. This is ideally what the Joker films would've been like as adaptations to me. Not a cautionary tale of a poor man beaten by society until he snaps, but the story of a vile, sociopathic narcissist who uses all of that as a crutch & the anger of disenfranchised men to enact chaos on the world.
It is still tragic and misunderstood, tho....by the Penguin. Oz is so deluded by his own narcissism, cynicism and self-loathing that he has rationalized all the horror he has committed. He got everything he wanted in Vic, but that void needs more and to get more he must make himself "clean" of attachment. It's tragic in the Shakespearean sense. He's sympathetic, but he's also completely irredeemable.
Honestly it's great that over the past decade Oswald Cobblepot is returning to his former glory as being one of Batman's most prominent villains. It's a great time to be a Penguin fan
Agreed. I love they've now set up The Penguin as one big bads of a major live-action saga rather than just go the route of the informant side villain that they could've easily used him as. Harvey Dent is also getting a lot of prominence lately with Caped Crusader, his (imo) fantastic role in Arkham Shadow, & he's even in Folie A Deux. And maybe The Batman Part II, fingers crossed.
@@mandalorianhunter1 I was just thinking of that show & its Two-Face earlier. But I was thinking of the adaptations from this year since they were all back-to-back, although Gotham Knights Two Face counts as a recent version too, yeah.
@@themadtitan7603 they had a good actor for the role but the rest of the show was a mess. Also we had Gotham Harvey from what I gathered didn't go anywhere.
@mandalorianhunter1 I thought Gotham only had Harvey bullock? I didn't finish the last season tho so if he popped up there that's why I didn't see him. Otherwise I just missed him completely
@@nicholashodges201 I just looked him up & I see why because of him working the Penguin & turning into his right-hand man. That's I expected Vic's outcome will be, ending up being corrupted under Oz & turning into his ruthless enforcer going forward.
That intial scene with Alberto is brillant because it makes you sympathize with Oz. Alberto comes off like the callous villain Carmine was in the Batman, mocking him after this rousing speech about the man who inspired him, this robin hood esque mobster who looked after the little guy. Without context the viewer sees Oz's killing of Alberto as karmic punishment, with context Alberto is rightfully disgusted by the man who sold out his sister for his "thirty pieces of silver" and could care less about some 2 bit hood he idolized. Its just one of many ways the show gaslights you into thinking Oz has some level of decency before smacking you into reality.
Coming to realize over the series that Oz killed the only person who was trying to actually help Sofia out of compassion and that you let yourself feel good about it because at the time, we thought Penguin was the little guy. Alberto was right all along. We just had to see for ourselves how right he was
At first I really desliked Alberto and thought he was the stereotype of dumb incompetent son of the Mafia boss, but when Sofia's backstory came up I gained a lot of sympathy for him, seeing he was the only one strong enough to stand against his father and to support his sister. It made me feel bad about his death.
I really hope this show is a sign for the transition of criminals to full on supervillains in this Batman universe. The psychopathy keeps amping up with Sofia and Oz that by the end, the old mafia families are long gone. I love this universe so damn much.
I think both this & The Batman are about that transition. In the film, Batman says things will get worse before they get better & Matt Reeves said the Joker scene representing the rise of freaks following the Riddler. And The Penguin now ended with both the Falcones & Maroni's wiped out with a classic supervillain like Penguin on top as kingpin. I see Oz's organization recruiting outcasts like Killer Croc & competing with the likes of Black Mask & the Ventriloquist from here on out. Also both are very inspired by The Long Halloween which was about that evolution from crime families to comicbook supervillains & I can see it all culminating in that iconic splash panel of all the villains gathered before the guard. And same, I adore this universe, this is the grand Batman epic I've wanted to see on screen for years.
@@themadtitan7603except modern Penguin *isn't* a supervillain, he's a gangster that was way ahead of the curve when it came to learning how to thrive as a gangster in their freaky new world. How do they get their costumes and gear after getting out of Arkham? They pay Penguin for storage. Where do Joker & Riddler vanish to when they disappear for months? Penguin can tell you. He's the pivot point between mundane and super crime
@@nicholashodges201 I know & I agree. I meant that he's a classic member of the rouges' galley with a title & a shtick. But I actually think of Penguin as the middle ground that adapts comfortably between the old mob & the freaks.
I hope this means that The Penguin will not just be a one off villain as we’ve seen previously but a villain that lives on like Loki and gets to do more than just one movie. Having The Penguin in the background even would be interesting amassing his empire, not just in Arkham but maybe in hiding or busy behind the scenes or even in a hospital recovering somewhere. I personally don’t wanna see them explore The Joker nor Harvey Dent, but do this treatment to other characters
That's the shocking & unnerving part for me. Vic served the role for of the loyal admirer for Oz well, but served it too well it became a hindrance to the latter. Just like with his mom at the end, it shows it was all about how people ultimately serve him.
I hope this show marks a change towards that. I feel many think villains have to be either misunderstood/genuinely trying to do the right thing or 2D moustache-twirlers. This shows you can have plainly vile garbage as the villain & also have them be layered & textured like real-life scumbags often are. If we get supervillains written like this, then give me all the pure evil antagonists we can get.
100% agreed. Introduce Harvey in Part II & then give him a lawyer drama with this level of writing & craft that all leads up to an intense & face melting court session in the finale.
This show is an actual 10/10 for me from the writing, acting and everything in just 8 episodes they really successfully make a great Villain project that doesn’t make him some misunderstood anti-hero but a narcissistic psychopath that we WANT the hero to beat. This needs to be the staple for any Villain project (movie/show) for the future we need a reason to actually hate them
True, every crime show captures the guy with a bounty on his head, Oz should've died like 3 times but no villains gotta monologue.@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09
I really enjoyed how instead of the typical "Yeah he's a bad guy, but this is why he's actually very sympathetic!!" they do the complete opposite. Like, you start out feeling a small level of connection with Oz, and end hating the guy more than ever.
They had us rooting for him up until the very end. We wanted him to take over Gotham with Vic. Once he cut Vic down everyone wanted him dead lol. That's great writing.
Personally I didn’t even interpret it as the show wanting us to feel sympathy for the character. But just simply to give him layers and make him a complex character. All throughout the series Oz is constantly betraying people and just looking out for himself. I didn’t find any sympathy in that
“…a natural master of studying people.” That reminded me of a description of London’s worst mob boss in China Miéville’s Kraken: “He was never just a thug. Just thugs only ever got so far. The best thugs were all psychologists.”
R.I.P. Ada! You live on in the animations and photos of you on this channel. That is sadder news than I expected to receive today, I'm sorry you lost her.
4:55, Oz being able to briefly take on the role of a vigilante standing up for the disenfranchised parts of Gotham, threatening a city official to get the lights back on, is another way for the audience to get positively attached to him, while the aristocratic criminals only worsen the states of those neighborhoods and Sofia even bombs them to get to Oz. All in all, this story masters having all its characters be tragic or sympathetic, but still have them be villains, still be ruled by their egos, their jealousy, their greed, and ultimately suffer the consequences of them. Oz best understands that greed more than anyone else there, he understands the treacherous system he's in (while characters like Vic or Sofia each have chances to leave, but stay because of their ambitions even as they act as though they are better than them), and he exploits this flaw in others to benefit himself, even if he'll never be able to make Francis proud of him.
/fingers crossed... The Batman was a mixed bag, with the lowest aspect unfortunately being the writing... yet the Penguin was well written. Nothing necessarily new, but a solid story performed expertly. Let's hope for a good sequel movie!
Penguin series is a masterpiece. Ready for the Bat to mentally spar with the waddling sob, a perfect villain for mid-development Bruce Wayne, the human being behind the entity, to cut his billionaire philanthropist persona's teeth on. Lost my GP about a year ago, I still feel that pang every time I remember. Little albino rascal, situated next to my kitchen, would always scurry up to me when I walked by and scream for veggies when she heard the sound of the fridge opening. I love the way they look up at you with disapproval and skepticism, as if they somehow understand we are barely worthy to be their keepers... or are merely appalled we have the gall to emerge into permanence without the intent of delivering their next meal. "Henri" I called her. RIP Ada. My respects.
The Batman and Penguin are hands down, the most accurate live action representations of Gotham City I have ever seen. You really get the sense that this city is so fucked up that a man dressing as a bat and punching criminals at night...whilst becoming a symbol of justice and hope makes sense.
I miss 12-16 episode seasons because we could live in their worlds for longer (more than 16 becomes excessive to me), but runs like this one and Superman & Lois season 4 really show what smart writing can do. There’s hardly any fat you could trim because they’re trying to make every second of the runtime count. If shorter seasons are the new norm (which they clearly are), they should all take serious notes from Penguin.
Whats even more sad is when vic was going to leave, even if he left without oz's consent he would've had nothing to worry about because oz probabaly would've died right there, and yet oz couldn't see that that's the only bit of loyalty like that he will find in that line of work.
Oz made him feel as if vic was breaking his trust by leaving and missing out on the big time, and the tempting idea of having it all and having more than his parents ever could made Vic make his last mistake
I think Oz would have killed Vic for seeing him being “weak” while crying over his mother. Vic conforted him and I think Oz would take that as an insult once he kind of “came back to it” afterwards.
Its the closest Ive ever seen to the brutality of Penguin in his own comics. As much as its a great stand alone I would enjoy more flashbacks of Rex Calabrese. The show frames it that he got rid of his brothers for his mom but in truth they were also in the way of his criminal ambitions
Okay, tying the themes of the show with that speech from Mafia 1 was a brilliant move. Funnily enough I played through that game for the first time while The Penguin was being released
Same. And even things I didn't think of that enhanced what else I caught. It just deepened my appreciation of the show now knowing we have a comic-book show this phytologically in touch with itself. Props to Lauren LeFranc, the rest of the writing team, & Matt Reeves.
I genuinely hope that Victor is alluded to in Part II & is just to make his death less grim & Batman beating him up more cathartic. Even if he's not necessarily aware of him.
Not sure how he'll find out about him specifically... Who's available to ID Victor when they find his body? And anyone that knows Vic at the end of the show would know he was running with Penguin, so why would Batman care about him dying mysteriously?
@@rickkcir2 DNA testing is expensive and there's no reason to believe Vic's fingerprints are on record since he wasn't really a criminal before the show He just looks like a random robbery victim with how he was left, cops aren't typically doing those additional activities for a case like that Even if they did ID him, why would that mean anything to Bruce Wayne/Batman?
@@dammagrilla Because there are people who knew victor Aguilar like link and all of the other people who saw his face. It will link back to Penguin. Finding out about the Hangman killer and Salvatore Maroni’s death.
I completely agree with all those people saying the opening of the batman II should start with batman beating the shit outta OZ, but I have to admit the evolution of OZ being a bad person to becoming a grimy villain and I am glad they kept him a villian throughout and I have to admit Colin F. did a great job acting and so did the young Oz And also Where was the batman he has been missing for like 2 months in the show because in the batman it was October and a the end of the show it was December
Yeah if the penguin isn't careful that Batman will chase him through the streets blowing up vehicles and killing and injuring innocent civilians only to sort of question him and then leave the penguin standing there free to leave
Makes me question about life in general. Why is the person in the highest position of power always someone who’s cruel, psychotic and treacherous, not the honest and compassionate guy? Not just in criminal underworld, but also in business and politics. Why built the system that help these kind of people succeed instead of promoting good people in the first place?
What defines being " good "? What makes being good a good trait for a leader or a position of power? Why would people who are good allow someone who is " bad " to rule over them?
Ok...but "Gia" SHOULD have been named Helena Berteneli tho...right? Like she could have her mom's maiden name, but her mom married into the falcones...they had the huntress origin on a silver platter!!!
...huh, that would've actually been a neat twist. Frankly, I'm half-expecting her to get adopted by a couple with the last name Kelly, and when she's older, to encounter the Batman himself. Yes, I'm suggesting Gia Falcone essentially becomes Battinson's Robin.
Him takin the money out of Vic's wallet and throwing his ID into the river after starching him was absolutely diabolical, that batsignal at the end gave me hope this **thing** gets it
Two great shows waiting to happen now: Two Face: 8 episodes of seeing Harvey Dent go from glorified DA to psychotic killer/gang leader. Law and order type stuff. Bane: series of him moving to the USA from Cuba, becoming a cartel gang, and taking his first dose of venom. Narcos type stuff.
I like these videos because all of the concepts sound really interesting and inspire me to write, but when I try to apply the concepts explained in this video I realize I have no clue what any of it actually means
I also love that part of how they sold Oz's villainy is showing the depth of his self-delusion. Oz never thinks he's the "bad guy". Not really. Because he's a narcissist. He thinks all the repugnant things he does is justified. He's still the hero in the story he tells himself about himself...because he's such a good manipulator he can maniplate himself into genuinely believing his own bullshit and custom-tailoring his personal narrative like a good suit.
I hope either Bane killer croc or Maybe even freeze gets one next u they could just say for killer croc he got some kinda health condition that causes him to look that way
Alongside this and the Riddler: Year One comic, the Reeves verse is so great for villains who are *evil to the core* but who you kinda like till the end of their story
I like that you brought up The Riddler too. Much of the critique for his character & his last plan tends to be rooted in people thinking of him as an anti-hero who suddenly flipped. He never was, he was a narcissist who wanted to be seen as the boogeyman with a point & to lash out on those who hurt him & even those who didn't. That's the whole point of him targeting Bruce despite doing nothing to him. The "Sins of the Father" thing is an excuse to attack someone who got all the care & attention while he rotted in the orphanage.
@themadtitan7603 mmhm, while reading the comic you can see he has a point (yes, Gotham is corrupt to the core) but he completely loses his aim the moment he gets a whiff of "I can do something". Like, the bombing plans, online cult, and murder spree was all laid down in his journal *before* he killed his corrupt gangster accountant boss
The only problem I have is Batman. I don’t feel like Batman would sit on his hand with at least something like the entire rest of the Falcone family dropping dead or Salvatore Maroni escaping from prison. Maybe because he’s a little inexperienced but I feel like Batman would be a little bit involved in a lot of the events that happened in the series. He’d at least be keeping tabs on who’s going to be on top of the crime stuff now. Idk it’s kinda crazy he really wasn’t even mentioned at all
I think a really good thing about the show is more the mental illness side of Penguin. Like Arkham and Gotham imo has always been a Petri dish of villains that are really mentally ill that accrue power, and Batman explores this reality.
I hope they give Two-Face a show like this with law & order vibes after Batman Part II.
Have the last few episodes have him becoming Two Face
I'm on-board if it's a Harvey Dent series where we see him playing fast and loose with the law. I don't want to see a two-face procedural, as much as I love the character. To me, the idea of Two-face falls apart when writers portray him as having a soft spot for procedural justice.
I prefer to think that as Dent, he saw the rules as a game to play, and he was the best there was at it; he wasn't afraid to selectively use the rules to make sure he always won, even if it was only on a technicality. The change in him when Maroni splashes him with acid is not just a change from good guy to bad guy: it represents a fundamental rejection of his former world-view. He did EVERYTHING perfectly, but he lost everything in the most seemingly arbitrary manner and the rules were meaningless to protect him. The key is that his core belief that he is exceptional remains central to his persona even after this, which is why he comes by embracing his role as an avatar of arbitrariness.
I feel like Harvey Dent has been used too much lately, I'd rather see some lesser used villains get their moment on the big screen
@@afunkymonkeI agree Harvey Dent is honestly used a LOT I mean he was even in Joker 2 man 😂
Same
I like how this show keeps on telling you "THIS GUY IS THE BADGUY" but we keep buying Oz's bullshit. He sells out Sofia, burns a woman and her son to death and drowns his brothers but only when he kills Vic do we realize "oh yeah, he's the badguy."
Ehhhh. Once we find out what he did to his brothers his whole shtick about loving his mom went out the window. He's a sicko with a sick perverse vision of what a mother is.
Falcone and his wife and son were mobster scum, Sofia was also a member of the mob with an inflated ego of herself to the point she thought she was moral.
Someone pointed out how brilliant of a character Vic is for the sense that he's there to ground the audience. As long as the good hearted lovable Vic was on Oz's side us as the audience felt like "Oh well if hes staying around it cant be that bad."
Thats why when Vic dies EVERYONE felt betrayed. Vic was an extension of the audience. The moment he died and benefit of the doubt died with him.
@@jacknagel9387 Yeah.
When randos who we don't care about get killed, no one really gives a damn. The writers knew this and took full advantage. It also helps if a lot of those randos are ALSO violent criminals. Vic was what broke the mold, because we spent so much time with him and got to know him so well. Everyone feels bad when familiar characters get killed (at least those that the audience cares about). It's quite brilliant in hindsight.
Love that they are self-aware enough to make the villain be the villain.
And love that they portrayed those actions as horrible things, not some tragic misunderstood backstory that the audience has to side with just because the one who did it is a protagonist.
That’s why I loved the show he’s not misunderstood he is an evil man and it’s simple as that. THIS is how you do a proper Villain project
Same. Finally an actual supervillain project that shows the full extent of their depravity while still portraying Oz as a nuanced character.
And I love how they subvert it too by playing into the small-time crook who wants to overthrow those in power & please his mom only to reveal these as just narcissistic plays to achieve his desires.
This is ideally what the Joker movies would've been imo. A man who wants to expose the world for the joke it is & ends up coopting a revolution for his goals; all while they believe in him while he laughs at the irony.
@@uchihabomber1296 Agreed. And in that simplicity, they cemented Penguin as sinister & more nuanced member of the rouges' gallery much more than if they went for the misunderstood anti-hero imo.
This is ideally what the Joker films would've been like as adaptations to me. Not a cautionary tale of a poor man beaten by society until he snaps, but the story of a vile, sociopathic narcissist who uses all of that as a crutch & the anger of disenfranchised men to enact chaos on the world.
"I have the devil in my house" hit so hard
It is still tragic and misunderstood, tho....by the Penguin. Oz is so deluded by his own narcissism, cynicism and self-loathing that he has rationalized all the horror he has committed.
He got everything he wanted in Vic, but that void needs more and to get more he must make himself "clean" of attachment. It's tragic in the Shakespearean sense. He's sympathetic, but he's also completely irredeemable.
Honestly it's great that over the past decade Oswald Cobblepot is returning to his former glory as being one of Batman's most prominent villains. It's a great time to be a Penguin fan
Agreed. I love they've now set up The Penguin as one big bads of a major live-action saga rather than just go the route of the informant side villain that they could've easily used him as.
Harvey Dent is also getting a lot of prominence lately with Caped Crusader, his (imo) fantastic role in Arkham Shadow, & he's even in Folie A Deux. And maybe The Batman Part II, fingers crossed.
@themadtitan7603 that's great, can't wait to see more of two face. You also missed Gotham Knights but that show was a mess
@@mandalorianhunter1 I was just thinking of that show & its Two-Face earlier. But I was thinking of the adaptations from this year since they were all back-to-back, although Gotham Knights Two Face counts as a recent version too, yeah.
@@themadtitan7603 they had a good actor for the role but the rest of the show was a mess.
Also we had Gotham Harvey from what I gathered didn't go anywhere.
@mandalorianhunter1 I thought Gotham only had Harvey bullock? I didn't finish the last season tho so if he popped up there that's why I didn't see him. Otherwise I just missed him completely
We all gonna have a smile on our face when Bruce pays Oz a visit.
Also, R.I.P Ada.
Who’s Ada
Oz essentially did what Falcone did to the Maronis
Gordon calling him the rat with wings comes full circle
Great catch, that line payed off here...
R.I.P Vic. Let your spirit know that it'll know vengeance once Batterson Arkham Knight Combo the hell out of Penguin in the sequel.
For that outcome alone, it made the Batman sting more satisfying than most teases in comic-book projects.
I was really hoping that Vic would become a version of Emperor Penguin. But I guess that wasn't in the cards
BaTTINson*
@@nicholashodges201 I just looked him up & I see why because of him working the Penguin & turning into his right-hand man. That's I expected Vic's outcome will be, ending up being corrupted under Oz & turning into his ruthless enforcer going forward.
@@themadtitan7603 it's downright poetic, Penguin literally making the only person that can actually bring him down. They're missing out, methinks
That intial scene with Alberto is brillant because it makes you sympathize with Oz. Alberto comes off like the callous villain Carmine was in the Batman, mocking him after this rousing speech about the man who inspired him, this robin hood esque mobster who looked after the little guy. Without context the viewer sees Oz's killing of Alberto as karmic punishment, with context Alberto is rightfully disgusted by the man who sold out his sister for his "thirty pieces of silver" and could care less about some 2 bit hood he idolized. Its just one of many ways the show gaslights you into thinking Oz has some level of decency before smacking you into reality.
Coming to realize over the series that Oz killed the only person who was trying to actually help Sofia out of compassion and that you let yourself feel good about it because at the time, we thought Penguin was the little guy. Alberto was right all along. We just had to see for ourselves how right he was
At first I really desliked Alberto and thought he was the stereotype of dumb incompetent son of the Mafia boss, but when Sofia's backstory came up I gained a lot of sympathy for him, seeing he was the only one strong enough to stand against his father and to support his sister. It made me feel bad about his death.
I really hope this show is a sign for the transition of criminals to full on supervillains in this Batman universe. The psychopathy keeps amping up with Sofia and Oz that by the end, the old mafia families are long gone. I love this universe so damn much.
I think both this & The Batman are about that transition. In the film, Batman says things will get worse before they get better & Matt Reeves said the Joker scene representing the rise of freaks following the Riddler.
And The Penguin now ended with both the Falcones & Maroni's wiped out with a classic supervillain like Penguin on top as kingpin. I see Oz's organization recruiting outcasts like Killer Croc & competing with the likes of Black Mask & the Ventriloquist from here on out.
Also both are very inspired by The Long Halloween which was about that evolution from crime families to comicbook supervillains & I can see it all culminating in that iconic splash panel of all the villains gathered before the guard.
And same, I adore this universe, this is the grand Batman epic I've wanted to see on screen for years.
@@themadtitan7603except modern Penguin *isn't* a supervillain, he's a gangster that was way ahead of the curve when it came to learning how to thrive as a gangster in their freaky new world.
How do they get their costumes and gear after getting out of Arkham? They pay Penguin for storage. Where do Joker & Riddler vanish to when they disappear for months? Penguin can tell you.
He's the pivot point between mundane and super crime
@@nicholashodges201 I know & I agree. I meant that he's a classic member of the rouges' galley with a title & a shtick. But I actually think of Penguin as the middle ground that adapts comfortably between the old mob & the freaks.
@@themadtitan7603 it's a very unique niche in comics.
I hope this means that The Penguin will not just be a one off villain as we’ve seen previously but a villain that lives on like Loki and gets to do more than just one movie. Having The Penguin in the background even would be interesting amassing his empire, not just in Arkham but maybe in hiding or busy behind the scenes or even in a hospital recovering somewhere. I personally don’t wanna see them explore The Joker nor Harvey Dent, but do this treatment to other characters
vic tried so hard and got so far but in the end, it didn't even matter :(
That's the shocking & unnerving part for me. Vic served the role for of the loyal admirer for Oz well, but served it too well it became a hindrance to the latter. Just like with his mom at the end, it shows it was all about how people ultimately serve him.
Yeah, that’s one thing. I don’t know why.
"I understood that reference."
Vic got all the pain and no gain fr
Its literally what played in my head during the ending when OZ said "but in the end" lol
And so the cry that has been said over the internet since its inception has finally been heard: Ladies and Gentlemen, villains are f****** evil again!
I hope this show marks a change towards that. I feel many think villains have to be either misunderstood/genuinely trying to do the right thing or 2D moustache-twirlers. This shows you can have plainly vile garbage as the villain & also have them be layered & textured like real-life scumbags often are.
If we get supervillains written like this, then give me all the pure evil antagonists we can get.
It'd be cool if after Batman 2 we get a Two-Face miniseries heavily inspired by Better Call Saul and Law & Order.
Better Call Saul yes, but no to the Law and Order. That's much more of a procedural and not character driven.
100% agreed. Introduce Harvey in Part II & then give him a lawyer drama with this level of writing & craft that all leads up to an intense & face melting court session in the finale.
This show is an actual 10/10 for me from the writing, acting and everything in just 8 episodes they really successfully make a great Villain project that doesn’t make him some misunderstood anti-hero but a narcissistic psychopath that we WANT the hero to beat. This needs to be the staple for any Villain project (movie/show) for the future we need a reason to actually hate them
It's a high 9 for me, there's a little too much plot armor for Oz in order for me to give it a 10.
@ I see the vision
True, every crime show captures the guy with a bounty on his head, Oz should've died like 3 times but no villains gotta monologue.@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09
I really enjoyed how instead of the typical "Yeah he's a bad guy, but this is why he's actually very sympathetic!!" they do the complete opposite. Like, you start out feeling a small level of connection with Oz, and end hating the guy more than ever.
They had us rooting for him up until the very end. We wanted him to take over Gotham with Vic. Once he cut Vic down everyone wanted him dead lol. That's great writing.
Personally I didn’t even interpret it as the show wanting us to feel sympathy for the character. But just simply to give him layers and make him a complex character.
All throughout the series Oz is constantly betraying people and just looking out for himself. I didn’t find any sympathy in that
This movie is what Joker wishes it was. Deep dark and sinister with things to say about class and poverty.
It didn’t have to wish cuz it completed its goal.
This is how Joker 2 should have been. Transitioning into tragic villain into irredeemable monster.
“…a natural master of studying people.” That reminded me of a description of London’s worst mob boss in China Miéville’s Kraken: “He was never just a thug. Just thugs only ever got so far. The best thugs were all psychologists.”
R.I.P. Ada! You live on in the animations and photos of you on this channel.
That is sadder news than I expected to receive today, I'm sorry you lost her.
"The world doesn't leave much room for kindness." or whatever the orginal title was was a awesome name.
I very much dislike how RUclips algorithm sometimes doesn't give leeway for creators for titles.
4:55, Oz being able to briefly take on the role of a vigilante standing up for the disenfranchised parts of Gotham, threatening a city official to get the lights back on, is another way for the audience to get positively attached to him, while the aristocratic criminals only worsen the states of those neighborhoods and Sofia even bombs them to get to Oz.
All in all, this story masters having all its characters be tragic or sympathetic, but still have them be villains, still be ruled by their egos, their jealousy, their greed, and ultimately suffer the consequences of them.
Oz best understands that greed more than anyone else there, he understands the treacherous system he's in (while characters like Vic or Sofia each have chances to leave, but stay because of their ambitions even as they act as though they are better than them), and he exploits this flaw in others to benefit himself, even if he'll never be able to make Francis proud of him.
A masterpiece series. Hopefully Batman 2 will take this momentum and turn in a good, well written/acted movie.
/fingers crossed... The Batman was a mixed bag, with the lowest aspect unfortunately being the writing... yet the Penguin was well written. Nothing necessarily new, but a solid story performed expertly. Let's hope for a good sequel movie!
Penguin series is a masterpiece. Ready for the Bat to mentally spar with the waddling sob, a perfect villain for mid-development Bruce Wayne, the human being behind the entity, to cut his billionaire philanthropist persona's teeth on.
Lost my GP about a year ago, I still feel that pang every time I remember. Little albino rascal, situated next to my kitchen, would always scurry up to me when I walked by and scream for veggies when she heard the sound of the fridge opening. I love the way they look up at you with disapproval and skepticism, as if they somehow understand we are barely worthy to be their keepers... or are merely appalled we have the gall to emerge into permanence without the intent of delivering their next meal. "Henri" I called her. RIP Ada. My respects.
Sorry for your loss
Prayers for Ada
The Batman and Penguin are hands down, the most accurate live action representations of Gotham City I have ever seen. You really get the sense that this city is so fucked up that a man dressing as a bat and punching criminals at night...whilst becoming a symbol of justice and hope makes sense.
I'm sorry for your Ada. May her memory be a blessing
other youtubers have said ‘oz desperately craves approval’ but I agree wholeheartedly with you. Oz only cares about himself. great analysis
I miss 12-16 episode seasons because we could live in their worlds for longer (more than 16 becomes excessive to me), but runs like this one and Superman & Lois season 4 really show what smart writing can do. There’s hardly any fat you could trim because they’re trying to make every second of the runtime count.
If shorter seasons are the new norm (which they clearly are), they should all take serious notes from Penguin.
Whats even more sad is when vic was going to leave, even if he left without oz's consent he would've had nothing to worry about because oz probabaly would've died right there, and yet oz couldn't see that that's the only bit of loyalty like that he will find in that line of work.
Oz made him feel as if vic was breaking his trust by leaving and missing out on the big time, and the tempting idea of having it all and having more than his parents ever could made Vic make his last mistake
I think Oz would have killed Vic for seeing him being “weak” while crying over his mother. Vic conforted him and I think Oz would take that as an insult once he kind of “came back to it” afterwards.
Its the closest Ive ever seen to the brutality of Penguin in his own comics. As much as its a great stand alone I would enjoy more flashbacks of Rex Calabrese. The show frames it that he got rid of his brothers for his mom but in truth they were also in the way of his criminal ambitions
I like how in the end relates to vic as a person. Great choice.
RIP Ada
When Oz started talking about you have been with me, seen all the stuff with my mom..
I was like "Oh boy, here we go.."😢
I knew this was coming!
That speech from Mafia 1 at the end let a flood of nostalgia into my brain. Used to watch it being played before I was even 10.
Okay, tying the themes of the show with that speech from Mafia 1 was a brilliant move. Funnily enough I played through that game for the first time while The Penguin was being released
This show has Gotham's murder bridge. Nothing can convince me otherwise
Rip Ada u were a real one
This is the best analysis video I have seen on The Penguin, you nailed all the things I caught in the show but was unable to articulate
Same. And even things I didn't think of that enhanced what else I caught. It just deepened my appreciation of the show now knowing we have a comic-book show this phytologically in touch with itself.
Props to Lauren LeFranc, the rest of the writing team, & Matt Reeves.
For Ada, sweet summer child
Bruce Wayne is going to go ballistic once he learns what happened to Victor Aguilar through his friends and associates. Batman will come for Penguin.
I genuinely hope that Victor is alluded to in Part II & is just to make his death less grim & Batman beating him up more cathartic. Even if he's not necessarily aware of him.
Not sure how he'll find out about him specifically... Who's available to ID Victor when they find his body?
And anyone that knows Vic at the end of the show would know he was running with Penguin, so why would Batman care about him dying mysteriously?
@@dammagrillaThere’s DNA testing, fingerprints, facial recognition.
@@rickkcir2 DNA testing is expensive and there's no reason to believe Vic's fingerprints are on record since he wasn't really a criminal before the show
He just looks like a random robbery victim with how he was left, cops aren't typically doing those additional activities for a case like that
Even if they did ID him, why would that mean anything to Bruce Wayne/Batman?
@@dammagrilla
Because there are people who knew victor Aguilar like link and all of the other people who saw his face. It will link back to Penguin. Finding out about the Hangman killer and Salvatore Maroni’s death.
Woah, Static!
Also, sorry about your Guinea Pig. I know losing a pet is hard
that ending was beautiful
Penguin tv show > Joker (2019)
wow hot take
@@PLaStiiCMoNtAGEIs it?
100% agree
Accurate.
You’re actually right
I completely agree with all those people saying the opening of the batman II should start with batman beating the shit outta OZ, but I have to admit the evolution of OZ being a bad person to becoming a grimy villain and I am glad they kept him a villian throughout and I have to admit Colin F. did a great job acting and so did the young Oz
And also Where was the batman he has been missing for like 2 months in the show because in the batman it was October and a the end of the show it was December
Incredible video! You did great with this one!
Yeah if the penguin isn't careful that Batman will chase him through the streets blowing up vehicles and killing and injuring innocent civilians only to sort of question him and then leave the penguin standing there free to leave
Makes me question about life in general.
Why is the person in the highest position of power always someone who’s cruel, psychotic and treacherous, not the honest and compassionate guy? Not just in criminal underworld, but also in business and politics. Why built the system that help these kind of people succeed instead of promoting good people in the first place?
Counterpoints: Eisenhower, Carter, George H.W. Bush, Obama
@@johndaily263Bush and Obama were compassionate? 😂
What defines being " good "? What makes being good a good trait for a leader or a position of power? Why would people who are good allow someone who is " bad " to rule over them?
Good people often don't covet positions of power.
@@johndaily263seriously 😂
*A really good analysis.*
Ok...but "Gia" SHOULD have been named Helena Berteneli tho...right? Like she could have her mom's maiden name, but her mom married into the falcones...they had the huntress origin on a silver platter!!!
...huh, that would've actually been a neat twist.
Frankly, I'm half-expecting her to get adopted by a couple with the last name Kelly, and when she's older, to encounter the Batman himself.
Yes, I'm suggesting Gia Falcone essentially becomes Battinson's Robin.
That’s assuming that the writers or anyone else involved in this universe gives a shit about Huntress
Damn that's acc crazy yeah lol
Press F to pay respects for Ada. :(
Him takin the money out of Vic's wallet and throwing his ID into the river after starching him was absolutely diabolical, that batsignal at the end gave me hope this **thing** gets it
Damn RIP Ada ❤
Hey man how do you do it like really how I’m astonished at how you are able to watch any show or movie and connect it to something truly beautiful.
God of war video Essay?? Id love to hear your perspectives on the story. Changed my life, especially Ragnarok
Can't wait for your video on absolute batman
Great video! Rip Ada
Two great shows waiting to happen now:
Two Face: 8 episodes of seeing Harvey Dent go from glorified DA to psychotic killer/gang leader. Law and order type stuff.
Bane: series of him moving to the USA from Cuba, becoming a cartel gang, and taking his first dose of venom. Narcos type stuff.
I like these videos because all of the concepts sound really interesting and inspire me to write, but when I try to apply the concepts explained in this video I realize I have no clue what any of it actually means
Maybe the first time I actually know the mystery song of the description lol.
This iteration of The Penguin gave ME serious Eric Cartman vibes. 😜
This penguin show is what the joker movies should have been.
I also love that part of how they sold Oz's villainy is showing the depth of his self-delusion. Oz never thinks he's the "bad guy". Not really. Because he's a narcissist. He thinks all the repugnant things he does is justified. He's still the hero in the story he tells himself about himself...because he's such a good manipulator he can maniplate himself into genuinely believing his own bullshit and custom-tailoring his personal narrative like a good suit.
Plot twist! I was in the turkey the whole tiiime
Nice Mafia reference 15:05
It really fits well with the Penguin's story.
It complimented the scenes & the characters (particuraly Vic) so well.
The intro tho!!! Bro shoulda made the trailer!!!
This show was so good.
Sorry for your loss.
I hope either Bane killer croc or Maybe even freeze gets one next u they could just say for killer croc he got some kinda health condition that causes him to look that way
Rest in peace Ada
At this point Reeve should stick with TV Series format, Batman's rogue gallery had so much potential
Alongside this and the Riddler: Year One comic, the Reeves verse is so great for villains who are *evil to the core* but who you kinda like till the end of their story
I like that you brought up The Riddler too. Much of the critique for his character & his last plan tends to be rooted in people thinking of him as an anti-hero who suddenly flipped. He never was, he was a narcissist who wanted to be seen as the boogeyman with a point & to lash out on those who hurt him & even those who didn't.
That's the whole point of him targeting Bruce despite doing nothing to him. The "Sins of the Father" thing is an excuse to attack someone who got all the care & attention while he rotted in the orphanage.
@themadtitan7603 mmhm, while reading the comic you can see he has a point (yes, Gotham is corrupt to the core) but he completely loses his aim the moment he gets a whiff of "I can do something". Like, the bombing plans, online cult, and murder spree was all laid down in his journal *before* he killed his corrupt gangster accountant boss
Honestly I am all for crime drama’s set in Gotham after each Matt reeves Batman film
Damn, now I gotta watch this show
just made a video inspired by you, hope someone finds some joy watching it. maybe put a smile on ur face lol
Top three greatest comic book show ever.
Batman the animated series and daredevil are the other two
I know were very far from this, but man what would i give for a grimy Red Hood show or a Deathstroke show
Keep it up🎉
ERB-looking thumbnail
free my girl sofia
Great video
R.I.P. Ada
RIP Ada
The populist candidate we are glad we didn't get.
Oh, wait...
The only problem I have is Batman. I don’t feel like Batman would sit on his hand with at least something like the entire rest of the Falcone family dropping dead or Salvatore Maroni escaping from prison. Maybe because he’s a little inexperienced but I feel like Batman would be a little bit involved in a lot of the events that happened in the series. He’d at least be keeping tabs on who’s going to be on top of the crime stuff now. Idk it’s kinda crazy he really wasn’t even mentioned at all
Yeah, I hope they justify his absence in the next movie. Maybe he was on a sabatic year or something
Yesss man
Now compare this version of Penguin with the other live-action Penguins: Meredith, DeVito and Taylor.
RIP ADA
It was the last straw for me when he offed vic
Not even sofia was that cruel
She actually rewards loyalty,
Vic shoulda skipped town before the last ep
I think a really good thing about the show is more the mental illness side of Penguin. Like Arkham and Gotham imo has always been a Petri dish of villains that are really mentally ill that accrue power, and Batman explores this reality.
This is probably the only true thing he has said the entire series
Batman will show him it is.
Gia just wanted cake 😔
It’s very nice to have a villain who stays a villain. I feel the whole “anti hero” trend is getting a little stale these days
A few things bugged me in the writing but great series overall 9/10
Like what
@ like how Oz escaped Sofia at the end. Also how Sal escaped prison after being stabbed.
Mr. freeze please!
It isn't perfect. Italian mob stories are mostly this way, but damn is it great.
Dude the music is so Disney. It doesnt fit this grimey ass show at all
Am i the only one that thinks, altho good, this show is not as great as the Internet commentary says? 🐦
4:41 the what?
The perforamnce
Great work now talk about Agatha All Along that show is baller
Please do a ben 10 video