Bro top right kept cutting off golden mid sentence when he says something important and changed the subject multiple times throughout the video. Do better mate, we're trying to learn
Biggest noob audio trap - getting your card out after an internet person say’s any of the following > “competes against much more expensive products” “giant killers”, “measures better than anything that came before” “it turns up to 11” 😊
The dac/amp thing is so true. One of my first audio adventures was with a Audeze Isine 20, and those out of my laptop sounded good and had plenty volume room. One day i tried them at a friends dac/amp stack and found out that my laptop output massively increased the bass on those, and they suddenly sounded a lot clear, so i bought a dac and amp to do that and experiment with software eq+negative pre amp.
Sorry to post on an older video, this came up in my recommended. On the discussion of good and baste taste, I think it is worth looking at the different ways we can use the terms. There are two main types of good and bad, categorical and hypothetical. Categorical goods and bads are things that are good and bad no matter what. Most of the time these are the types of good and bad we use to make ethical statements, so not super relevant here. Hypothetical goods and bads are more along how well something serves a specific aim or purpose. For example, a shovel is good at digging a hole, a piece of hair would be pretty bad at it. Under different hypotheticals, different things and actions will be good or bad. To determine if it is possible to have bad taste, we have to first define an aim for that taste to accomplish. A lot of what you said in this video seems to be from the perspective of a reviewer, or at the very least, someone who gives advice. If we change that to a hypothetical question, "Is it possible to have bad taste to give advice to others?" then the answer seems to be yes, as someone who's opinions would not be good advice for anyone other than themselves would be bad in that hypothetical sense. If what end we want is something else, for instance, your own personal enjoyment, then it would be difficult to say anyone could have such bad taste that they stop their own enjoyment, though I think there may be some scenarios where this would be the case, like giving in to your desire for a better looking product despite aiming to enjoy the sound, as hinted at by Resolve. This does give us an objective way to test if someone's taste is bad. There will still be the issue of drawing the line of "how ineffective at achieving this aim does something have to be for it to be considered bad?", but that is another topic altogether.
I also made the mistake of thinking DT1990 or 250 ohms would be harder to drive. Came to know about dbSPL only later and how to use those for power measurement requirement.
Please start calling out the bullshit products! It's a public service since a lot of people are spending stupid amounts of their hard earned money on this stuff.
I agree with the guy on the top right. If you make your money as a person on the internet that offers information and entertainment on free platforms like YT, you should have a patreon. This is like the single example where not having a patreon or some other kind of donations (be it merch or whatever) acting as tips for a service would be weird
Pioneer se-monitor 5 closed back...give them a listen if you can find a set. Best anc solution is a set of IEM with Bose anc (or similar) over the top for NC duties only.
I'm actually really confused about the best way to set your volume levels. Or I suppose by the sound of it everything at max would be the ideal situation in terms of snr but which one to lower first?
Max volume is not best SNR, a lot of amps have a THD+N sweet spot at half output power (-3 dB) or even lower, and then most affordable delta-sigma DACs create significantly more distortion when driven with 100% full-scale digital signals, so they would also benefit from receiving a signal with lower than max digital volume. So both should be lowered "a notch or two" from their max if you're really looking for the sweet spot, and then you can further lower whichever one you want in order to actually control the loudness. But more often the amp/analog-volume will be more problematic because it often creates L-R imbalace when you turn it too low.
@@d0nj03 Ah, I guess it depends a lot on the specifc chain then. I've been applying -20dB pre-amplifying on EQAPO (cursed, I know) to run my zen dac (dac amp combo fyi) at around 12 o'clock on the volume knob because it has a significant channel imbalance at lower levels and I've been wondering if it has a detrimental effect on snr. Also, since, as they mention in the stream, any large amount of volume control on Windows is a bit dodgy, I've been wondering if I could add something to the chain to keep the volume control on Windows minimal while avoiding the channel imbalance issue on my zen dac, or should I just get something else?
@@islaymmm Lowering digital volume while maintaining the original bit depth of the signal absolutely has a detrimental effect on the purely digital(!) SNR. For the chain's final SNR, that depends on how noisy the amp is vs. the digital signal. But anyway, modern OS components don't keep the same bit depth when they process the signal, even just for volume control, they resample to 32-bit or so, apply the volume change, then downsample if needed to whatever you set your output to. Then the digital noise floor is not raised by digital volume control. For 44/16 with noise-shaping dither you should have the noise down about 112-120 dB below the signal, so inaudible in even the best of listening conditions like blasting your ears with dumb amounts of volume while listening in the dead quiet of night. If still in doubt, you can test your setup by applying that digital -20 dB, turning your amp to the loudest setting you'd ever use to listen to music, and listening instead to a silence track, starting and stopping it multiple times, in the quietest conditions you can use that setup in. See if you can actually hear the noise floor or not.
@@islaymmm If the volume control software operated only at the original bit depth of the signal or whatever you selected for output, e.g. 44/16, lowering the digital volume would absolutely worsen the SNR, but even then it's not clear in what conditions it would be audible wrt. how low you're going on digital and how high you're pushing on the analog side to compensate, and how high the noise floor is in your listening environment. Regardless, in modern software this isn't an issue, even for Windows I think it's been confirmed they use upsampling to 32-bit before applying any modifications, then downsampling (if necessary) to your selected output format, and there results no detectable worsening of SNR (mathematically there is of course, but it's in the 32-bit domain where the quantization noise so far below the signal it's not worth even looking up a decibel number for it, you can safely assume it's zero).
@@islaymmm If the volume control software operated only at the original bit depth of the signal, e.g. 44/16, lowering the digital volume would absolutely worsen the SNR, but in modern software this isn't an issue. Even for Windows I think it's been confirmed they use upsampling to 32-bit before applying any modifications, then downsampling (if necessary) to your selected output format, and there results no detectable worsening of SNR (mathematically there is of course, but it's in the 32-bit domain where the quantization noise so far below the signal it's not worth even looking up a decibel number for it, you can safely assume it's zero).
anyone who isn't consistently representing their tastes in anything is simple erratic in judgement or their description is based on random words at the time of questioning. Thats about it. If they are lying then its because they aren't into audio and you're forcing things on them and that's understandable.
Nice alloys do make a car go faster though…. Measurably so. On the whiteboard and on the track. That’s unsprung rotational mass. If you save 3 kilos a corner it makes a big difference. I agree with the premise though. There are “nice alloys” that only subjectively look nice but weigh in excess of 15 kilos. That will make you go slower and they cost money too.
"Nice" could be cosmetic, and for 99%, thats all they are in the aftermarket. You'd be surprised how few people take customs to a track. Most care about the look, and that's it.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez yeah that’s why I mentioned either costing money and one being a detriment and one being an improvement. It’s just the broad statement that alloys don’t make a difference just isn’t true. Odds are they will not be the same weight as stock ones. I also agree that 99% of wheels will be bought for looks and not taken on track. Matter of fact, most sports cars will never be used for sport and just doomed to being in city traffic.
@Chopped86 to be fair, I think he's saying it makes no difference to almost anyone using them, not that they can't make a difference. Even if you get into a discipline, the chances of you getting to a level were such upgrades actually affect your performance and not just confidence or ego is next to zilch.
Thanks for this review, jay. We all know you've been kind of an ambassador for denafrips for a long time, and for you to say a $2700 dac is better than the denafrips terminator could bring a downfall to denafrips brand.
@@halimj7 I mean, that's boring for you though, not for them. And if that's their daily driver, then it'll be on their desk most of the time, so why bother changing it up?
I made it 25 minutes in yesterday, mostly because you're a bit hilarious ... perhaps unintentionally. I'm clearly not your demographic, but do you have any idea how snooty you sound when you scoff at people new to the hobby? Perhaps having a live stream that's sort of aimed at being educational is either a big mistake, or you need to learn that if you want to teach beginners something about starting out in the hobby, you shouldn't actually scoff at them while you're doing it. Smacks all 'round. Do better, young men!
Properly? Experimentation without significant cost is awesome and getting things wrong and trying again is a fantastic way to learn. There is no proper or improper way to dive into EQ. If you are worried about noobs, worry about snake oil and overpriced shiny boxes. Keep them focused on good cans and the most cost effective way to feed them. Then unleash them on a Qudelix or APO and let them have a great time messing about. There's enough info out there to guide them.
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HiCxoDeo0hc/mqdefault.jpg)
20:38 is the main topic
🤣🤣🤣
Wow lol, ty
42:07 is the second topic (Snake Oil)
Timestamps should be up, y'all!
Bro top right kept cutting off golden mid sentence when he says something important and changed the subject multiple times throughout the video. Do better mate, we're trying to learn
yeahhhh.... that was super annoying. especially because often times it wasnt actually adding anything to the convo.
these streams are quickly becoming some of my favorite backroud noise to listen to while taking my classes or playing games
When do they talk about the cosmo?
Biggest noob audio trap - getting your card out after an internet person say’s any of the following > “competes against much more expensive products” “giant killers”, “measures better than anything that came before” “it turns up to 11” 😊
😂
NEW BENCHMARK
I agree with Cameron the biggest noob trap is amps more expensive than the $30 KA11.
So hard to drive headphones don't exist?
I love my ifi Zen Air Dac. Costs 100€, connects to USB, has a volume knob and sub bass booster and drives everything perfectly.
You're telling me the 50 grand boxes of dirt dont make my system quieter? SCANDAL!
Biggest noob trap is not using EQ.
FALSE...the noob trap IS USING EQ. Every dweeb who has bad gear must use it. If you got good gear the need to use it is significantly LESS.
@@DJ_BROBOT 🤣
The first 20 minutes and 38 seconds is fine but just have a fluffer to get you through it
The dac/amp thing is so true. One of my first audio adventures was with a Audeze Isine 20, and those out of my laptop sounded good and had plenty volume room.
One day i tried them at a friends dac/amp stack and found out that my laptop output massively increased the bass on those, and they suddenly sounded a lot clear, so i bought a dac and amp to do that and experiment with software eq+negative pre amp.
If you heard 2:47 hours of this, you are the Noob.
The cure for the S08 is to loosen up the foam that is in the shell right behind the nozzle screen. It fixes the pinna issues that hold the S08 back.
Sorry to post on an older video, this came up in my recommended. On the discussion of good and baste taste, I think it is worth looking at the different ways we can use the terms. There are two main types of good and bad, categorical and hypothetical. Categorical goods and bads are things that are good and bad no matter what. Most of the time these are the types of good and bad we use to make ethical statements, so not super relevant here.
Hypothetical goods and bads are more along how well something serves a specific aim or purpose. For example, a shovel is good at digging a hole, a piece of hair would be pretty bad at it. Under different hypotheticals, different things and actions will be good or bad. To determine if it is possible to have bad taste, we have to first define an aim for that taste to accomplish. A lot of what you said in this video seems to be from the perspective of a reviewer, or at the very least, someone who gives advice. If we change that to a hypothetical question, "Is it possible to have bad taste to give advice to others?" then the answer seems to be yes, as someone who's opinions would not be good advice for anyone other than themselves would be bad in that hypothetical sense. If what end we want is something else, for instance, your own personal enjoyment, then it would be difficult to say anyone could have such bad taste that they stop their own enjoyment, though I think there may be some scenarios where this would be the case, like giving in to your desire for a better looking product despite aiming to enjoy the sound, as hinted at by Resolve.
This does give us an objective way to test if someone's taste is bad. There will still be the issue of drawing the line of "how ineffective at achieving this aim does something have to be for it to be considered bad?", but that is another topic altogether.
I also made the mistake of thinking DT1990 or 250 ohms would be harder to drive. Came to know about dbSPL only later and how to use those for power measurement requirement.
Was not aware what I was missing till I heard the Hexa/what neutralish sounds like. Now most stuff are just bass boosted boom boxes.
Please start calling out the bullshit products! It's a public service since a lot of people are spending stupid amounts of their hard earned money on this stuff.
I agree with the guy on the top right. If you make your money as a person on the internet that offers information and entertainment on free platforms like YT, you should have a patreon. This is like the single example where not having a patreon or some other kind of donations (be it merch or whatever) acting as tips for a service would be weird
Don't integrated DAC/Amp solutions like ES9219 employ class D aplification?
This was too good
No joke, the part about amp volume knobs was a fucking life changer.
If you want the volume knob box fiio k11 is the desktop dac/amp i generally recommend, and it is $129 usd
you 4 are awesome!!!!
Are these released as podcasts?
Pioneer se-monitor 5 closed back...give them a listen if you can find a set.
Best anc solution is a set of IEM with Bose anc (or similar) over the top for NC duties only.
I'm actually really confused about the best way to set your volume levels. Or I suppose by the sound of it everything at max would be the ideal situation in terms of snr but which one to lower first?
Max volume is not best SNR, a lot of amps have a THD+N sweet spot at half output power (-3 dB) or even lower, and then most affordable delta-sigma DACs create significantly more distortion when driven with 100% full-scale digital signals, so they would also benefit from receiving a signal with lower than max digital volume. So both should be lowered "a notch or two" from their max if you're really looking for the sweet spot, and then you can further lower whichever one you want in order to actually control the loudness. But more often the amp/analog-volume will be more problematic because it often creates L-R imbalace when you turn it too low.
@@d0nj03 Ah, I guess it depends a lot on the specifc chain then. I've been applying -20dB pre-amplifying on EQAPO (cursed, I know) to run my zen dac (dac amp combo fyi) at around 12 o'clock on the volume knob because it has a significant channel imbalance at lower levels and I've been wondering if it has a detrimental effect on snr. Also, since, as they mention in the stream, any large amount of volume control on Windows is a bit dodgy, I've been wondering if I could add something to the chain to keep the volume control on Windows minimal while avoiding the channel imbalance issue on my zen dac, or should I just get something else?
@@islaymmm Lowering digital volume while maintaining the original bit depth of the signal absolutely has a detrimental effect on the purely digital(!) SNR. For the chain's final SNR, that depends on how noisy the amp is vs. the digital signal.
But anyway, modern OS components don't keep the same bit depth when they process the signal, even just for volume control, they resample to 32-bit or so, apply the volume change, then downsample if needed to whatever you set your output to. Then the digital noise floor is not raised by digital volume control.
For 44/16 with noise-shaping dither you should have the noise down about 112-120 dB below the signal, so inaudible in even the best of listening conditions like blasting your ears with dumb amounts of volume while listening in the dead quiet of night.
If still in doubt, you can test your setup by applying that digital -20 dB, turning your amp to the loudest setting you'd ever use to listen to music, and listening instead to a silence track, starting and stopping it multiple times, in the quietest conditions you can use that setup in. See if you can actually hear the noise floor or not.
@@islaymmm
If the volume control software operated only at the original bit depth of the signal or whatever you selected for output, e.g. 44/16, lowering the digital volume would absolutely worsen the SNR, but even then it's not clear in what conditions it would be audible wrt. how low you're going on digital and how high you're pushing on the analog side to compensate, and how high the noise floor is in your listening environment.
Regardless, in modern software this isn't an issue, even for Windows I think it's been confirmed they use upsampling to 32-bit before applying any modifications, then downsampling (if necessary) to your selected output format, and there results no detectable worsening of SNR (mathematically there is of course, but it's in the 32-bit domain where the quantization noise so far below the signal it's not worth even looking up a decibel number for it, you can safely assume it's zero).
@@islaymmm
If the volume control software operated only at the original bit depth of the signal, e.g. 44/16, lowering the digital volume would absolutely worsen the SNR, but in modern software this isn't an issue. Even for Windows I think it's been confirmed they use upsampling to 32-bit before applying any modifications, then downsampling (if necessary) to your selected output format, and there results no detectable worsening of SNR (mathematically there is of course, but it's in the 32-bit domain where the quantization noise so far below the signal it's not worth even looking up a decibel number for it, you can safely assume it's zero).
Anyone who hasn't experienced soundstage get yourself a virtual haircut
anyone who isn't consistently representing their tastes in anything is simple erratic in judgement or their description is based on random words at the time of questioning. Thats about it. If they are lying then its because they aren't into audio and you're forcing things on them and that's understandable.
Nice alloys do make a car go faster though…. Measurably so. On the whiteboard and on the track. That’s unsprung rotational mass. If you save 3 kilos a corner it makes a big difference. I agree with the premise though. There are “nice alloys” that only subjectively look nice but weigh in excess of 15 kilos. That will make you go slower and they cost money too.
"Nice" could be cosmetic, and for 99%, thats all they are in the aftermarket. You'd be surprised how few people take customs to a track. Most care about the look, and that's it.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez yeah that’s why I mentioned either costing money and one being a detriment and one being an improvement. It’s just the broad statement that alloys don’t make a difference just isn’t true. Odds are they will not be the same weight as stock ones. I also agree that 99% of wheels will be bought for looks and not taken on track. Matter of fact, most sports cars will never be used for sport and just doomed to being in city traffic.
@Chopped86 to be fair, I think he's saying it makes no difference to almost anyone using them, not that they can't make a difference. Even if you get into a discipline, the chances of you getting to a level were such upgrades actually affect your performance and not just confidence or ego is next to zilch.
Brain worms got me. Watching the live stream recording instead of studying for exam.
Thanks for this review, jay. We all know you've been kind of an ambassador for denafrips for a long time, and for you to say a $2700 dac is better than the denafrips terminator could bring a downfall to denafrips brand.
LOL
30 mins in, nothing said!
I feel like this whoole video ahoulf just been of golden sound
Can you upload these to Spotify please?
😂😂
I don’t get the appeal of hd800 especially for a podcast. Why?!
why not? it's probably their daily drivers
@@azad-4286 boring daily driver for me and overkill for a podcast
@@halimj7 I mean, that's boring for you though, not for them. And if that's their daily driver, then it'll be on their desk most of the time, so why bother changing it up?
@@halimj7 imagine being cringe enough to question the use of two near professional audio enthusiasts choice of headphone lmao, i bet ur fun at parties
@@azad-4286
I hope you reread your comment and reflect on it.
I made it 25 minutes in yesterday, mostly because you're a bit hilarious ... perhaps unintentionally. I'm clearly not your demographic, but do you have any idea how snooty you sound when you scoff at people new to the hobby? Perhaps having a live stream that's sort of aimed at being educational is either a big mistake, or you need to learn that if you want to teach beginners something about starting out in the hobby, you shouldn't actually scoff at them while you're doing it. Smacks all 'round. Do better, young men!
the guy who said the worst newb trap is "not using EQ" is fully tarded. noobs can't even use eq properly
Properly? Experimentation without significant cost is awesome and getting things wrong and trying again is a fantastic way to learn. There is no proper or improper way to dive into EQ. If you are worried about noobs, worry about snake oil and overpriced shiny boxes. Keep them focused on good cans and the most cost effective way to feed them. Then unleash them on a Qudelix or APO and let them have a great time messing about. There's enough info out there to guide them.
I just notice I hate you guys. Instead of music I am listening your podcast... again.
those with HD800 are the noobs obviously (yea S or not) 🤣🤣
Buying anything Shiit
What's wrong with you? Why don't you use time signals that tell you the time of the topic?
Timestamps are in the description
What's wrong with you? Why are you being rude over this?