Is It Actually Worth Playing Leverless Controllers? (ft. Nephew)
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- Опубликовано: 29 июл 2024
- It seems like using a leverless controller in Street Fighter 6 and fighting games in general has become the norm, with may people shelling out the big bucks to make the switch. However, given it's controversial bans and pricey options, is it actually worth switching to it to try and win more? Kizzie Kay and Nephew debate what advantages it brings and whether or not YOU should invest in one!
Do you you prefer leverless or something else? Comment down below!
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Kizzie Kay
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Nephew
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Leverless is vital for me. I'm old and this is the only control type i can use without getting pain in my hands and wrists.
This I don't understand. It's similar to keyboards and people get hand problems from keyboards. I'm not saying stick is any better or worse but I feel like people are coping with leverless. The thing whatever Alex Myers uses would be ergnomically better.
@@KillingMoon_ People get hand problems with mice. It is extremely, beyond uncommon to get hand problems from using a keyboard since the position of your hands while using it is their default position when doing nothing.
@@KillingMoon_ The hand and wrist structure has a lot of different muscles, tendons, and moving bones/joints. MnK, leverless, and stick all use different combinations of those. Some people tear up their wrists, and using a stick aggravates those muscles a lot. It seems to be a pretty common problem. Whether it is genetic, from work, an accident, or just moving it constantly in ways it wasn't meant to be with a stick, wrists can wear down, and that usually negatively affects the hand structure as well, leading to hand problems from trying to compensate for the wrist. Same thing can happen with fingers, although our fingers are made to move and twitch a lot more, so you hear about finger problems a lot less. Also, leverless controllers usually have enough of an ergonomic difference compared to a keyboard to allow for a more relaxed hand posture while using them. I have have to bridge my hand more on my keyboard to avoid extra key hits, where as my leverless feels more ergonomic in general. The short of it is, with hands having so many moving parts that can wear down, sometimes all someone needs to fix a hand and/or wrist problem is removing a stick, which requires wrist motions, and replacing it with keys of some form and changing the hand posture a bit.
For transparency, I play on leverless now, but that's because I've been a MnK user my whole life and when I got into fighting games, I really struggled with accurate stick inputs. I loved how the stick felt, but dropped inputs were killing me and my enjoyment of the games I played. My switch to leverless was completely because I was bad with stick and found keyboard cumbersome with how small and clustered the keys are. MnK was doable, but not the most enjoyable.
@@KillingMoon_ those who get pain from keyboards most likely have really bad desk posture in general. a good example is if their desk is too high or too low, it will give you an unnatural angle for your wrists to rest on when typing on a keybooard. this is why leverless prevents that from happening IF you have your leverless resting on your lap on a negative angle. so yeah it's not cope but further research is needed to properly prevent hand problems. the only real problem leverless prevents out of the gate is that leverless will not ruin your left wrist with all the sudden jerk movements compared to when using a stick.
I'm not old, but I'm also getting handpain with pad, so I just play leverless.
It’s not banned, no need for click bait kizzie
Just by you clicking the vid and leaving the comment you made the click bait worth using
I clicked cause I saw nephew 💀
@@Puntersnatch Only if you click because of the clickbait.
@@IcyTorment that's what clickbait means yes
Haute42 for the budget conscious. This is my first time trying to get serious with sf6 and it's a good starting board. Feels really smooth
Bought mine yesterday today it's coming in and I agree totally worth the price range. Got the bigger model, T13, for only $76 compared to the Razer Kitsune being $300.
Got my t13. Love it for gorilla hands.
@@Nostalgiaforinfi big facts feels like I'm playing piano while fighting
Just installed some Kalihs Silent Choc V2 and the THOOOOOOOOOOOOCC is too good.
Why did you put banned in the title?
So I’ve always played Leverless but recently, for fun, I’ve switched to stick. Committed to a full year on stick just for fun to see how good I can get.
This is the conclusion I’ve come to, Leverless is probably, objectively, better but stick I think is way more fun. It’s so much more frenetic, you feel like you’re really interacting with the game.
I get why some like Leverless, hell after my year is up, I might switch back, and there’s an accessibility issue as well but more people should try stick.
Most of us aren’t going to evo top 8, and even if we are, angrybird plays on stick, my point is that sometimes maybe we prioritise optimisation when we should be prioritising fun? Maybe that might actually make us play better in the long run?
Also many inputs are actually faster on a joystick. 5 Japanese pro players tested how fast they can do ⬇️↘️➡️⬇️↘️➡️🅿️ super and leverless and a pad averaged 22.5 frames and joystick averaged 13.5 frames
@@epicon6 I also cheat because i have a crossup so for games that allow it, I can use the button to dash, but I do everything else on stick. I mainly play SF6 and 3rd strike though and it’s illegal on one and not possible in the other
@@GramdalfFGC I lived in Japan from 2009-2015 and spent thousands of dollars in the arcades and i love the arcade culture there so much and want to keep that alive, so i’ll always play fighting games with a stick and buttons, and don’t even use any macros for throws or other moves because i enjoy using 1-4 in Tekken more and 1-6 on SF and other 6b games.
I have a leverless button box, but I think one of the things that doesn't get stressed enough on why it doesn't feel as natural as pad or stick is because there is no pivot for directional movement. I think it is an advantage, but also a disadvantage. There are tricks you can take advantage of without having a pivot, but it if the devices you are used to had a pivot (i.e. pad or stick) and the way you learned how to make motion inputs via rocking said pivot, those skills don't transition well to a leverless button box. People always talk about how you get so much more precision on this new style of controller, but I think the con is it requires YOU to be WAY MORE precise for half circle and full circle motions. I find it way harder to do motion inputs in general on leverless button box. Because since there is no pivot, pressing any simultaneous opposing cardinal directions (SOCD) causes your inputs to cancel out. I can't just easily mash out 360s and 720s on button box (yet). Something that was such a simple, crude input that is natural as hell for me on pad suddenly requires ridiculously more dexterity on leverless button box. I think I want to try stick for the fun factor, but also for the customization and better durability than pad. Many of the modern pads on the market just aren't built for longevity.
@@SolidBrenYou're right. On leverless you have to be precise to do motion inputs, whereas on stick there's a room for error
Cool to hear Nephew mention KOF. I'm only a beginner in kof15 but i started it as my game to learn leverless due to the bigger motion inputs. After about a month of kof, trying sf6 on leverless felt like a breeze by comparison.
I learnt it on KOFXIII.
i learned leverless on 3rd strike . sf6 feels too lenient now
I legit tried to start my fighting game journey with leverless. Lord that moment never came around. Got a stick and it clicked right away
I hear people saying pretty often that the jump confuses them at first because they're used to WASD, but every WASD game I play puts jump on the space bar by default. That makes leverless a very natural transition.
i'm used to play wasd and jump with space bar too for pc 3d games, but playing 2d fighting game really confuses my brain. i had to use my right thumb to jump and cant do it with left thumb. i think its because for 3d games the most intense movement control is already done with mouse.
I literally can't anti air with Chuns down-down kicks consistently on a pad. It's such an awkward motion to do on a pad/stick I'm actually considering getting a hitbox.
Used every method of Input, and hitbox style leverless is still my favorite in terms of general play. But still go back and forth to stick for the nostalgia.
I made the switch after playing pad basically my whole life, its worth it
There are things I like about leverless, and I can definitely do stuff I can not with stick, but I generally don't enjoy the experience. It's weird. It feels too much like typing, it doesn't translate weight and timing through finger tips the way stick does through your whole arm.
If the keyboard is allowed this should be allowed too. I just think they should hard limit the button layout, there are some insane setups akin to macros out there.
And my opinions on each one is:
- pad: I played with it most of my life, but it hurts my thumbs and are by far the hardest to perform
- lever arcade stick: This one I have because it is VERY FUN TO PLAY WITH IT, but not necessarily better unless you have some crazy good lever.
- Keyboard: One of the contenders for best performance and is affordable, I have a problem on my fingers, and because the position of the buttons my fingers start to feel heavy pain after a while.
- Leverless arcade: Bought one recently because keyboard was hurting my fingers. It is amazing how relaxed my hand can be, I open it up so my fingers dont hurt. As performance, its very good, akin to keyboard, it makes inputs so much cleaner and for that reason I love it a lot.
I literally think just the light weight of leverless (since levers require weight for stability) makes it worth
Can you do one of this topic but for tekken
so nephew is still playing without additional buttons?
It is. Get one. U wont regret it tbh
I couldn't play without leverless my hands just can't handle a stick or holding controller any more. It's just way more ergonomic and I'm old now.
I’ve actually gone back to stick because it’s just more enjoyable to use than leverless. Even though my execution is worse.
Sako’s been playing on stick since before the dinosaurs went extinct, and he hasn’t switched to leverless for better ergonomics.
Hey its nice to hear when someone prefer stick over leverless. I've been using leverless too for over a year and I'm going back to stick too. I play KoF mostly so I "have" to use stick. But I still play leverless in SF6.
8:48 That’s an accordion bro 😂😂
hell yeah i love nephew
NGL I really miss Guile's V skill 2
Leverless sticks are great for travel and tournaments due to the light weight and small form factor but I'll never use one.
leverless is really quite nice, i got one for 83 euros online non branded, it's much easier to get used to then lever imo.
How old is this content?
If I was razer I'd be kind of mad that you have that in the thumbnail just to click bait. Gonna have some dudes not buying that leverless.
I Only play keyboard and hitbox
Why not make a controller with 2 sets of ABXY buttons, one the left instead of a stick or d-pad, you can have most of the benefits, if not all, from a leverless controller in a ergonomic controller
Like, picture the Eswap pro controller with 2 buttons module on each side
Regardless of leverless vs lever, i think it doesnt make sense how much leverless costs, some are $300+, theyre typically smaller arent you usuing less materials?
There’s plenty of entry level options (haute 42 and SGF $50/$100) just got a haute g13 myself for $60
@@jamalallen8047 right even more the reason why leverless sticks shouldn't cost the same as a vlx
@@jonsf I agree I couldn’t imagine spending that just find out there’s cheaper options glad I waited 💪🏾
Haute 42 t13 is 👌
@@jonsf You have weird notions of how pricing works.
What kind of technology is there in these controllers to cost 300 dollars ? This is not a nintendo switch and this is definitely not a new gen console. 300 dollars ? A brunch of thieves
It's not that the tech is fancy, it's production scale. Leverless controllers are still super niche - there's nowhere near the economy of scale compared to a Switch.
Many games consoles sell at a loss. The idea being once people have the console they'll spend money on games which generates profit. Different business models and very different manufacturing scales.
@@udderhippo
Bro ths ps5 production cost is 550, it is sold at 500 dollars with a 50 dollars loss, it has a gpu, a cpu, rams, an incredible SSD, and the dual sense, the production cost of leverless controller is like 5 dollars.
@@khaledPortgas yes, and Sony sells millions of units so economy of scale applies. A leverless company is lucky if they're selling more than a few hundred units. Plus many of them have no other income avenues. Not saying they're not overpriced, just saying the kind of technology in there isn't the reason they're priced high.
Haute42 open source leverless is much cheaper compared to those expensive name brand controllers
@@udderhippo There's also the PS5 support and licensing. It's amazing how much more expensive PS5-compatible versions are.
I'm a classic fighting gamer and (HORI) arcade fighting sticks were invented for this, so...
🕹️🔘🔘🔘🔘
....🔘🔘🔘🔘
I luv challenges, so why extra buttons?!
In fact if I wanted to, I could use the two first buttons for parrying and stuff, doing EX-moves by pressing punch or kick buttons simultaneously.
I use only 4 buttons in Tekken8.
🕹️🔘🔘
....🔘🔘
Razer does not always make good products. I remember the Razer Forge TV.
I'm a super casual, super bad player at fighting games, but I like to play them, and the main reason is that it doesn't trigger my carpal tunnel as much as anything else I've ever used. I have a very difficult time with an actual game controller, so I never play with them, and used to have a separate arcade stick just to play the game. However, arcade sticks and keyboards are serious carpal tunnel monsters if you play long enough. Before, I could only play these things for a couple hours in frequencies of one-two weeks and take a long break, but with my cheap $45 flatbox that I got on Aliexpress, I played this game weekly for over six months with no problems!
Leverless not for everyone, but if you have carpal tunnel/arthritis/etc, having one and a nice stuffed animal as a wrist pad will let you play those games nonstop for months :3
Oh yea, and the second bonus is that my leverless is so small, I can fit it in my purse; I think guy pockets are big enough to hold some of the smaller leverless too, which is pretty useful, because carrying a giant arcade stick around, and having to go pee in a public place is not a fun thing to think about.
Commenting on every video requesting Makoto’s BBCF combo trials, video 86.
I don’t even know what that means
@@markchavez738BlazBlue Central Fiction
Here we go again
As a Makoto main in BBCF, I respect the tenacity and second the vote 👍
@@VoiceFGC Ayy another Makoto main :^)
Make the kitsune $150 and we’ll talk. It’s a glorified keyboard with a fraction of the buttons they are pricing at $300 😂
Just get something else? Haute 16 is a pretty good alternative, and its super affordable!
@@MaximumSpank I have something else 👍
It would be hard to sell a specialized product and pay the PS5 licensing fees and sell it for $150.
Haute42 T16
Duelpad A16
FightBox F10
Razor Kinsune
Hitbox
Nuff said
This dude just interviews other people and never has his own thoughts. Lame
Never once mentioned anything about leverless being banned. Is this how you get your views with these clickbait titles? What a waste of time.
9:16 I hate one button parry and DI. I guess I understand at the highest levels but not just hitting two buttons is so fucking lazy.
I don't know how this is still a topic. Must be a slow week after everybody covered old vs new. All-button is by far the best controller to play with. It's not even close. If you don't have one you're doing yourself a disservice.
Lol no. Pad is perfectly fine and arcade is fun af (i just hate how unpractical it is)
Honestly its preference, Hitbox is in theory better but you can win on anything.
True
Tell that to over half of the top players not using that shit and still sitting comfortably on top of
for the most part i agree but some games id argue are worse on leverless. Mainly Snk and older titles
Stick is cooler. Also, if you play leverless, you play worse. Daigo won a lot of EVOs on stick and none on leverless, ergo ipso facto ipsis litteris: levers are dumb. That's a quote by Aritotle, by the way.
Commenting on every video reminding players Infiltration deserved his ban
please explain with specifics
@SackTap69 his guilty verdict 🤣
@@SackTap69 He forgot to keep the fighting in the game
@@faaltov I literally don't know what he did or was accused of. What did he do?
@@SackTap69 he beat his wife and was found hella guilty in Korean court
0:34 Ed is trash. Boring garage character with a garbage fighting style
Level 2 is cool and he manages meter well.
I really dislike this topic because people just spread missinfo about things they don't know about. Pros are CONSUMERS, not HOBBYISTS, and (sometimes) SPONSORED by brands whose main product IS a leverless. There's no proper evidence of leverless being faster than stick, and no, Tokido with a labcoat on randomly pressing buttons in training mode is not a valid methodology. How fast (or how slow) your lever moves around is dictaced by the type of spring you use. Go to any STG/Shoot-em-up community and tell people there to throw away their seimitsu levers and switch to all-buttons because 'movement is more precise': they will laugh (rightful so) at your face.
"There's no proper evidence of leverless being faster than stick"
This is factually wrong but okay
this has to be bait because its crazy how the irony of your first sentence was just lost on you
You lost me when you compared it leverless to playing shooters on leverless too
"There's no proper evidence of leverless being faster than stick"
Are you dumb? Even disregarding the proof that is already available, the fact that a stick needs you to move your hand so the lever reaches the inputs while a leverless only requires you to press a button, means the later will be faster. It is literally faster to press a button than move something. That's a straight up fact. Having to move something from point A to point B will always be slower than just pressing a button. It is straight up physics my dude.
I put my fair share of nice Seimitsu levers to put in my k levers to play shmups but that's not the argument here.