I'll note that for Pathfinder 1E, 2E, and Starfinder, every single bit of content you'd buy a rulebook for is up for free on Archives of Nethys as well, so unlike DnD you don't need to pay anything for full rules as written access.
ICRPG Core 2E was the first book I ever bought and the first system I ever GMed! I acquired the Collector's Edition because of my love of it! I love every Runehammer product (including EZD6 which I use for my longest ongoing campaign) I always use the loot included since it is so well done! Shadowdark is awesome too! I have yet to play it as well
I would add a few more Fantasy d20 based systems to this list: 1. Whitebox Fantasy Medieval Adventure Game (FREE) 2. Basic Fantasy RPG (FREE) 3. Cairn (FREE) 4. Dragonbane 5. MÖRK BORG 6. OSE 7. BlackHack 8. Lamentations of the Flame Princess 9. Dungeon Crawl Classics 10. Dungeons & Dragons 1e or 2nd edition or Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. 😊
I love PF 1e, and I hate D&D 5e for the same reason: customizability. 5e makes most of your choices for you, but PF lets you make mistakes. PF lets you build *wrong*, and that's okay. The most powerful build I ever saw was a guy building a brawler wrong (I forget what he did, but it was more powerful than mine, and I'm a power gamer who loves making the "correct decision").
My favourite way for new DM's to dip their feet into the water is to get one of the old 'Choose your own adventure' books you might have played as a kid. Deathtrap Dungeon - Ian Livingstone. £4 2nd hand. Very basic rule system (only 2 pages!) to learn. Although designed for solo play - simply multiply the monsters encountered by the amount of the players you have. Ridiculously easy to adapt however you want.
Pathfinder 2e rulebook is the old one. It updated a while back. I believe "mathfinder" was used more for 1e. 2e is way more streamlined (way easier than 5e) thanks to the 3 action economy.
2E also takes away the "mathfinder" thing quite a bit, since now everything that generates a modifier for your rolls now uses the exact same Proficiency system calculation.
I might just be sold on Shadowdark, I love that old grimy style and I've been looking for an old school style system without the baggage of old school. Thanks, Dan!
When I saw the thumbnail, I was like hey that Simon Whistler guy actually got cool! Also, there's a video where a well known Pathfinder youtuber talks about the Pathfinder rule book absorbing an attack he took when he was at a protest. That book has saved a life! Also.. FINE. I'll buy Shadowdark! the VHS looking workout video was f***ing BRILLIANT! If you like quicker stuff, Cairn and Knave are both rad. Dragonbane is oddly more awesome than I expected also. 2 out of those 3 are D20 roll under, though.
Just to clarify he's probably talking about the 'current' version of Pathfinder which is 2e/Revised which was modeled after D&D 5e, not the original Pathfinder which is based after D&D 3.5e and is jokingly called D&D 3.75. I prefer the older (pre 4e) versions of D&D personally and I think both 4e and 5e went in the wrong direction even if it simplified things. I'll look through other videos to see if he's ever commented or reviewed Zweihander as that's very grimdark and very lethal (better chance your character will die than not).
PF2E was definitely not modeled after 5E. It went in its own direction, maintaining the huge range of choice and options people liked in 3.X while removing all the different math calculations, streamlining every d20 modifier under the TEML proficiency system. They also discarded the flat crit system for a degrees of success system, where instead of only 1s and 20s having a crit effect it has: Roll over DC by 10+ is a Critical success DC to 9+ is success -1 to -9 under DC is a failure -10 or more is a critfail. With 1s and 20s adjusting the degree of success up or down by one. The Remaster also mainly does three things: Removes a lot of atavisms that weren't doing anything, like the Attribute score, when the modifier was the only thing in use. Changes up a lot of lore elements that were too DnD-derived, mostly stuff like spell names, specific monster typing, that kind of thing. Removes the Alignment Grid from being relevant to players, instead having Edicts and Anathema (either personal or from their deity) as their guiding behavioral signposts and giving divine character, dependent on deity, the option to sanctify as either Holy or Unholy and gain similar benefits in certain actions and spells as the old alignment-based good vs evil stuff.
Weirdly enough, I find D&D 5e the worst system for people to start with. I find when trying a new system, it's always the D&D players that dig their heels in unless the game is deliberately trying to copy D&D.
Good list. I was hoping for more TTRPGs, other systems that use a d20 for skill/hit rolls includes Lancer. Which isn't a fantasy setting, but rather a sci-fi mech game. Advantages here are that the mechanics for the player side? Free PDF download, and the Comp/Con site can get players access to all the mechanics from splat books for the player side, including new mech licenses, talents, and so on. Only the GM/Lore stuff is behind a paywall, and the lore stuff even has at least a couple good lore series out there on RUclips (thanks 11dragonkid). Lead artist is Abaddon/Tom Bloom of Kill Six Billion Demons, so if you don't like his art style you probably won't like a lot of the art in the books. Cons it requires a map. Not literally, but it is almost as much wargame as it is RPG. And if you are just playing it for the first time starting above License Level 0 is a bad idea as increasing levels exponentially increases the variety of things/abilities that the players have access to which can lead to confusion if you don't already know what you can do very very well. For more fantasy stylings there is Godbound, a game of divine heroes/villains who literally change the world. It's similar, but not the same by any means, to D&D and Pathfinder in that you have levels and such. Cons... if the GM isn't literally ready to run a game where the players can run roughshod over the setting then it will likely be quite hard. Pros here, there is a free edition of the core book, making price of entry literally just reading the book. This isn't a quick start, but it is literally just the core book meaning that you will likely need to either get home brewed stuff online or make stuff of your own for villains, monsters, and the like. Another pro, in my opinion, is that the players can literally change the setting in dramatic ways from the word go.
Just got ICRPG Mater edition on the mail, after getting the first edition, runnerhammer is an amazing creator, also would reccomend his other game War Maker if you want to play an extremly simplyfied vertion of Warhammer
@@DexSaveDan My favourite part is the fact the skills have so many uses in and out of combat. And building an intimidating character is not only functional it's actually a very good choice.
6:16 you use a D&D related image while talking about pathfinder. Also wanted to add, about the pathfinder book weight thing: they also sell a "pocket" version of the same book. its softcover and smaller with everything in it. its awesome.
I've played a lot of ICRPG and is it a GREAT system. I've played a couple of sessions of ShadowDark and it left me flat. I would also recommend EZD6. I found both ICRPG and EZD6 to have a similar tone to 5e in that they are also heroic high-fantasy but I enjoy both of them more than 5e.
Good luck getting a group going. I've played these games since I was 13 and DMd various sized games, mostly but not exclusively cyberpunk with homebrew horror, for almost 30 years. Now I'm in my 50s and damn its hard to find groups to play with or DM for. Edit: posted to appease the youtube algorithm goblin.
out of the 10 (i think) ttrpgs i have played, not a single one was as bad as DnD, and only one wasn't exceptionally easier to fully learn (fucking shadowrun!). my personal reccomendations are either cyberpunk RED or chronicles of darkness. RED is super simple and even has a useful app, its t he easiest thing ever to pick up. chronicles is the perfect intro, to my mind, its got lots of advice that dnd doesn't give iirc (like setting boundaries early or getting inspiration), its a simple system, its _actually_ easy to modify (unlike dnd), its _relatively_ popular, and you don't need hundreds of dollars of books to get a full game.
If youre into the such, i would always suggest King of Dungeons created by Baz Stevens, it was a kickstarter ttrpg that came through a couple years ago and ive had a good bit of fun with it, although you arent really gonna find much about it outside of the kickstarter, any physical prints, and the avrious pdfs of it.
@@DexSaveDan Oh I would try my best if I were you, it's really a charming thing, and I hope you have fun if you get your hands on it! It's kickstarter and DriveThru, at the least, should be easy enough to find.
@@DexSaveDan kind of OSR… I’ve ran Vigilante City and thought it was pretty solid. It’s also easily house ruled to fit your own needs and setting. The Hero’s Journey RPG’s are pretty good too. Either edition is solid depending on what feel you’re going for. As for the pipe, I have many. Missouri Meerschaum to Savinelli to Petersons and everything in between. I have to say, the cobs are definitely some of my favorites!
I think everyone who talks about the D20 dice mechanics in their videos should say you have a target number that you must either roll or roll above it, that would be much easier for a beginner to understand. Because if a person watches a video and the RUclipsr says roll over, the person being totally new, will be told the target number. For example the target number is 14, then when that beginner rolls, they are going to think they need to roll a 15, it's very confusing for someone who knows nothing about how to play.
Agreed! I should have said meet or beat, but then meet and beat are in the same sentence and that opens up the comments for all kinds of vulgar jokes! Not my style.
I know another D&D-like called Olde Swords Reign. It's basically 5e redone by people who respect your time. Pros: Everything you need all in one digest-sized book. Simplified rules and character creation hearkening back to the 1974 original, but with enough customization to keep character growth interesting. Simple, evocative black and white art. Maybe not on the level of Shadowdark, but still servicable. Most importantly, the pdf is FREE. Cons: What? It's free. Okay, fine. It doesn't have any base random encounter tables, but it does have an overview of how to make your own. Worst case scenario, you can also get a game like Basic Fantasy (pdf also free), and use those when starting out.
I like ICRPG more as a seasoning than a full on rule system. Sprinkle in bits and pieces of it to really smooth out and simplify other systems. His assessment of Shadowdark is great and it's easily my favorite right now.
"what's the point of playing pathfinder, when I've got DnD?" Better balance at any aspect you might want. Better balance between martials sand casters, better balance between spells and schools, better balance at high levels... Any aspect of this game you can take, just works out of the box. That's a HUGE advantage over DnD
I love both ICRPG and Shadowdark. I do find it somewhat amusing, though, that every time people mention alternatives to D&D, they mention D&D-like games. I'd love to see people go a little further afield and try things like Savage Worlds or Fate Core.
Another game called Fabula Ultima is a bit like Fate. It's got a JRPG flare to it, but you can basically play D&D using it as the core system pretty easily, and you'll get some pretty cool multiclass characters out of it too. :)
ICRPG really is more a hack of D&D than an alternative to it. I like that it is setting neutral, but even the Master Edition really isn't enough of a coherent game to run for more than a one-shot without the GM taking the time to fashion their own systems out of it. Also, changing HP to hearts and saying each heart is equivalent to 10hp seems like an idea they brainstormed and forgot to test or remove. It doesn't fix or simplify anything.
@@yourworstfan I don't know... I kind of disagree with that. The hearts do simplify things in that you know at a glance how many HP something has, without needing to roll. I know you can also use an average for HP, but still, seeing 1 heart or 3 hearts tells you very quickly what the creature's approximate power level is. It essentially just rounds off HP to the nearest multiple of 10, but is a handy visual indicator. I don't think it *changes* a lot, but it's not a bad thing, either. Personally, I never really cared for HP to begin with. I have to admit that I am not sure what you mean when you say it is not coherent and only good for a one-shot. I see no issue in playing a campaign with it, though I do think the intent behind was at least partially to encourage players and GMs to tinker with it and make it their own.
@@jcraigwilliams70 The problem with hearts is that PCs do not do damage in increments of 10. So you still have to count HP anyway. What I meant about it not being usable as written for long campaigns is that there are no real rules there for character advancement. There are ideas that you can fashion into a system, but it is not a coherent system as is. As ideas for building a game or ideas for hacking your D&D game, it's great. But as a standalone game, it leaves a lot to be desired.
Hell yeah, ICRPG! I’d also recommend Dragonbane, since it’s an easier to learn fantasy TTRPG than D&D and the box set includes literally everything you need to play an RPG right out the gate.
@@DexSaveDanTried it myself. It's a surprisingly easy system to pick up and it really likes to emphasise finding non-combat solutions to your problems.
Interesting rundown. I felt like there was an element that didn't get much mention, namely--OK, so once you've gotten past the ease or difficulty of the rules, you've spent the money, built up the muscle to carry the book or whatever . . . are they any good to play? I mean, you could have an RPG that was really easy to learn, but if that was because there was only one character class and all they could do was hit things with a melee weapon, that might get a bit old pretty quick, you know? So yeah, once you're going with these RPGs, what can you do with them?
I am a little sad about how pathfinder 2e seems to be perceived by a lot of content creators. This is not really their fault, it’s just like, a common misconception. The thing is, pf2e is really focused on making the game part of the game interactive and fun, instead of being focused on math and character building and optimisation. There are a lot of options, sure, but they do not feel as important as they do, for example, in 3.5 or 5e, since they are very balanced between each other and more than anything they just permit you to do secondary stuff, and never will directly impact how effective you are. I’d say that it is a game for people who like having to overcome challenges in play (for example tactical challenges for fights, which are way more tactical and fun than in most other ttrpgs, but also exploration challenges, time management challenges, etc etc, they all are very curated so to be fun to interact with), but not really for people who enjoy a lot of math and character optimisation. The amount of options is surely fantastic and help a lot making you character feel unique, but the meat of the game is at the table, unlike in 5e where you can basically win the campaign in character creation
@@DexSaveDan yes we also play Star Wars Saga, GURPS, Fantasy Flight Star Wars too, and we used to play a lot of Twilight 2000 back in the 90’s. Saga is the only non D&D RPG that we have a campaign in right now.
The caveat with PF2e's math is that is no more complex that D&D's math, there is more of it and there is more rules overall but that is because D&D lacks structuring a lot of stuff that is left to the GM to improvise while PF2e actually gives you a much more robust base to start off Great video, I only heard of ICRPG but never played it
I like your anti-D&D attitude. The game is so bad and greedy that it inspired me to make my own system. I designed it from the ground up to beat it in almost every category (other than lore and art, I guess).
Love the list, minus the top 2 things on the list. This guy thinks like me, and therefore is smart. Another great game is Dungeon Crawl Classics for zany old school style D&D.
Aside from the cost, my main issue with current D&D is that it's a superhero game with elf ears stuck on. It's essentially turned into the easy mode, no bad feels, version of a game where darkness was once scary, healing slow and adventures dangerous. All of the emotionality that people seem to eat up with a spoon is not really in any of the expensive rule books. So, system should not matter. If you just want to be an overly dramatic "horny bard", you can do that in any game via role play. What D&D does have is a whole lot of rules for grinding, complex murder math. The bulk of it is "killing shit" or utility magic and healing from trying to kill shit. I am enjoying gaming more now that I moved away from D&D. It just does not feel like what I know as D&D anymore. Shadowdark does. Dragonbane does. I love Runehammer's stuff and if you like ICRPG, you may LOVE Crown and Skull. You want semi-sandbox, emergent story and simple rules that still give interesting battles and allow for player creativity without needless complexity, this game has that covered.
@@DexSaveDan Thrilled to see what you make of both of them. Dragonbane has been a total blast to run and is one of those games where there is enough familiar content balanced by enough new content and mechanics that everything feels fresh and dynamic. Monsters, as opposed to mook NPCs like goblins and so on, are SCARY and a monster battle can be very tense and down to the wire. Crown and Skull is REALLY different than a lot of things out there but I would expect no less from Runehammer. It strips down a lot of legacy auto includes from Fantasy gaming and changes focus. Not having stats or any mechanical bonus from being an Elf or whatever is really great. Damage is taken in skills and gear. When you think about it, that defines what you can do in a game. Losing the use of an item or skill until you can recover has far more impact than a chipping at a wall of HP where you are just as capable at 1 HP as 100. Also, I really like that ALL attacks hit unless blocked or evaded. PCs and monsters both just hit unless prevented from doing so. That really makes fights more interesting in a cinematic style.
What I love about these videos is that they are genuinely helpful, and made with genuine intent to inform and communicate. Rather than just 10 minutes of algorythmic fluff that claims to express some idea or provide a solution and in fact says nothing. This is ACTUAL CONTENT 🎉
3.5 and PF1E better be on this list, I know its technically DnD but god damn it does everything every edition does but better. Exploration? Horror? Good combat? Character building? World building? Making a stronghold? Whatever you want it to do, it can do.
Hello! I enjoyed your formatting style compared to other D&DTubers but the video was too short and since it uses a few examples (other videos go for even longer and do the same thing with more efficiency yet their formatting not as good).
I like your video. A rules light system using index cards did not slay a 50 year old ttrpg, the first ever ttrpg at that. I understand it isn’t for everyone. Hell I can’t stand anything WotC has had their slimy hands on.
F D&D😂🤣😂🤣that is what my gaming group basically said as well. One con of 5e is the character sheet or what beginning players like to call a "tax form". Filling this out is not fun...it's like doing your taxes. Index Card RPG is awesome and so is Hakerin!
I've been playing 5e, and a lot of homebrew never opened a book, luckily its all online. If i dont know how to do something, I just make it up. 5e is very easy to modify. Just don't like Pathfinder combat.
@DexSaveDan absolutely. It's play is far different from 5e. A lot of people says is has the same feel as 4e with how much it's more of a miniature tactics game.
The system matters little as long as the mechanics aren't silly or overly complicated. The fun is getting together with friends and making memories. Playing D&D is not expensive. Buying anything is completely optional as long as someone has the PHB. Even that's optional, because you can play with the basic rules for free. The whole thing can be done on your phone.
I like the idea of D&D but not all the culture around it. Fuck all that shit. Get a mace and some mates and lets go clubbing in the Caves of Fucking CHAOS!!!!
Nah, not really. Sure, DnD sucks and Pathfinder is better but there are FAR better alternatives. Warhammer FRPG, Savage Worlds, Ubiquity, D6 based systems like Open D6, there are so many. I can't say anything about ICRPG since I haven't even read it but Shadowdark is just so over-hyped and brings nothing new to the table. It's bland, boring and way too expensive. It's mainly random list that one can find for free on the internet. No thanks. edit: oh, and I think Free League systems should be one of the main alternatives. Symbaroum and Forbidden Lands are just too good to not play them. Though my faves are Coriolis and Mutant Year Zero but they're not Fantasy.
Don't you worry D6 systems will be covered, just a quick rundown. Let me know anymore I should include. Shadowdark, over-hyped? Well that'd make me a conductor, climb aboard Choo Choo!!!
D&D 5e sucks. We don't talk about it. It is only known because of the legacy of previous editions and because of its marketing budget. Pathfinder is nowhere near 5e. Pathfinder is 3.5e (or more corrwectly, 3.75e) Never plaid ICRPG, can't comment on it. Never plaid Shadowdark, can't comment on it. If you want the real D&D experience, go for AD&D 2nd edition. My personal favorite system since I was 12 years old (more than thirty years ago) is Rolemaster 2nd/3rd edition. Its greatest Con is its greatest Pro. Everything is possible because ecerything has a table, stat or rule. Every spell under the sun, every profession imaginable, every weapon ever, every skill you might or might not have heard of. Want to play an ex-orgre phalanx hunter with professional olympic levels of boat rowing skills? Can do. Want to be an escrima wielding centaur necromancer who has taking their harpsichord hoby to professional levels? Why not. Want to be an adventure-hardened trogolodyte prostitute or a spell casting goblin harem eunuch? Go for it. Even a halfling werewolf immortal martyr is not outside the realm of possibilities. Caution, this is not a game for people who suffer decission paralysis.
So, level+proficiency+bonus+item+circumstance+status is a lot of math? An operation of addition with 6 variables? and most of them only range from 1 to 8? Really, is that the only difference between the math of pathfinder and DND. Damage is mostly the same. AC is mostly the same Initiative is mostly the same If I would not recommend Pathfinder 2 for its math, I would not recommend Pathfinder 2 because of the hundreds of feats and options to personalize your character. And the worst of it is that all the contents (except for the adventures) are free online supported by the creators... Wait a minute, that's actually good 🤔 (just a bit overwhelming if you don't know how to use the filters)
@@DexSaveDan in the tables, of the web, there is an ocean of options. Don't let your players go there unless they're into that sht or have experience. Is too much to handle, take my word
genuinely disagree with everything he says about DnD. He's talking to it like ur a DM, or you're playing in person all the time. players don't need the player handbook. They can, but don't need it at all. DnDbeyond makes characters for you, and the DM knows everything else. So work with your DM. And price? Cheap as chips compared to 40k. Even cheaper if you play online. The best way to get into DND is just to play it! find an online or local group and play. Don't bother with the books I never have. (unless the yare campaign modules)
Genuinely couldn't agree more!.... wait, isn't 40k a miniature wargame? Have I been playing it wrong all these years?? Why didn't anyone tell me!?!? Thanks man.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Dan, it's Sarah. Loving this.
Hi Sarah, as mentioned not sure I know you but love that you're loving the videos. Did we work together? You don't have a baby Dex Save do you???????
I'm finally on a list that isn't a sh!t list.
Holy moly, Deficient Master has appeared from the ether! Love your stuff.
You...are my NUMBER ONE...guy! 😎👍
Some might argue that you have made it onto THE sh!t list. Only the best dwell here.
🤣
you are top of the heap my friend
I'll note that for Pathfinder 1E, 2E, and Starfinder, every single bit of content you'd buy a rulebook for is up for free on Archives of Nethys as well, so unlike DnD you don't need to pay anything for full rules as written access.
PF out do 5e again!!
ICRPG Core 2E was the first book I ever bought and the first system I ever GMed! I acquired the Collector's Edition because of my love of it! I love every Runehammer product (including EZD6 which I use for my longest ongoing campaign)
I always use the loot included since it is so well done!
Shadowdark is awesome too!
I have yet to play it as well
Another great video, with the cherry on top of being called out in the description!
Thanks for staning for Shadowdark, Dan!
My pleasure, I really do love the book! I also got your email to confirm the cheque is in the post. Cheers.
I would add a few more Fantasy d20 based systems to this list:
1. Whitebox Fantasy Medieval Adventure Game (FREE)
2. Basic Fantasy RPG (FREE)
3. Cairn (FREE)
4. Dragonbane
5. MÖRK BORG
6. OSE
7. BlackHack
8. Lamentations of the Flame Princess
9. Dungeon Crawl Classics
10. Dungeons & Dragons 1e or 2nd edition or Advanced Dungeons & Dragons.
😊
A few of these are going on the list...for god sake.
I love PF 1e, and I hate D&D 5e for the same reason: customizability. 5e makes most of your choices for you, but PF lets you make mistakes. PF lets you build *wrong*, and that's okay. The most powerful build I ever saw was a guy building a brawler wrong (I forget what he did, but it was more powerful than mine, and I'm a power gamer who loves making the "correct decision").
Maybe it's time to give PF another chance. Maybe it's time for a PF appopgy video.
They're never going to kill DND. Ever. It's the Kleenex of ttrpgs. When I play ANY ttrpgs, wanna know what my pals call it? DND night. It's ingrained.
Let us live in hope!! We should start calling it titterpig night.
My favourite way for new DM's to dip their feet into the water is to get one of the old 'Choose your own adventure' books you might have played as a kid.
Deathtrap Dungeon - Ian Livingstone. £4 2nd hand. Very basic rule system (only 2 pages!) to learn.
Although designed for solo play - simply multiply the monsters encountered by the amount of the players you have. Ridiculously easy to adapt however you want.
I've thought of doing this as an experiment...adapting one of the OG Fighting Fantasy books to a multiplayer form.
Depending on system (most) multiple monsters can be hell and far worse than 1 interesting monster
Pathfinder 2e rulebook is the old one. It updated a while back. I believe "mathfinder" was used more for 1e. 2e is way more streamlined (way easier than 5e) thanks to the 3 action economy.
Ya got me. I'll make it up, promise.
2E also takes away the "mathfinder" thing quite a bit, since now everything that generates a modifier for your rolls now uses the exact same Proficiency system calculation.
How much displayed on your t-shirt before goes BOOM!
I'm still here!! I'll keep you posted
I might just be sold on Shadowdark, I love that old grimy style and I've been looking for an old school style system without the baggage of old school. Thanks, Dan!
Yaaassss!!
Love the little guys moving about on the table and mantelpiece.
I rewatched it just to see if I can find what you were talking about. Cute easter eggs!
Who doesn't?!?!
I thought I was the only one who could see them!
When I saw the thumbnail, I was like hey that Simon Whistler guy actually got cool! Also, there's a video where a well known Pathfinder youtuber talks about the Pathfinder rule book absorbing an attack he took when he was at a protest. That book has saved a life! Also.. FINE. I'll buy Shadowdark! the VHS looking workout video was f***ing BRILLIANT!
If you like quicker stuff, Cairn and Knave are both rad. Dragonbane is oddly more awesome than I expected also. 2 out of those 3 are D20 roll under, though.
Dragonbane again!!! Yeah, just buy Shadowdark, all the cool kids are doing it.
Haha how could I not!? Ok I'm in!
Dragonbane is friggin cool though. I've been homebrewing a post collapse setting for it. I love that system though
Just to clarify he's probably talking about the 'current' version of Pathfinder which is 2e/Revised which was modeled after D&D 5e, not the original Pathfinder which is based after D&D 3.5e and is jokingly called D&D 3.75. I prefer the older (pre 4e) versions of D&D personally and I think both 4e and 5e went in the wrong direction even if it simplified things. I'll look through other videos to see if he's ever commented or reviewed Zweihander as that's very grimdark and very lethal (better chance your character will die than not).
I haven't, but I'll take requests. I'll do anything for a like me.
PF2E was definitely not modeled after 5E. It went in its own direction, maintaining the huge range of choice and options people liked in 3.X while removing all the different math calculations, streamlining every d20 modifier under the TEML proficiency system. They also discarded the flat crit system for a degrees of success system, where instead of only 1s and 20s having a crit effect it has:
Roll over DC by 10+ is a Critical success
DC to 9+ is success
-1 to -9 under DC is a failure
-10 or more is a critfail.
With 1s and 20s adjusting the degree of success up or down by one.
The Remaster also mainly does three things:
Removes a lot of atavisms that weren't doing anything, like the Attribute score, when the modifier was the only thing in use.
Changes up a lot of lore elements that were too DnD-derived, mostly stuff like spell names, specific monster typing, that kind of thing.
Removes the Alignment Grid from being relevant to players, instead having Edicts and Anathema (either personal or from their deity) as their guiding behavioral signposts and giving divine character, dependent on deity, the option to sanctify as either Holy or Unholy and gain similar benefits in certain actions and spells as the old alignment-based good vs evil stuff.
Fast becoming my favourite D&D channel!
My pleasure!!
It's only Monday and this video is already the highlight of my week.
I love that I've been a highlight. Means a lot!
Great energy! Hoping to see your channel take off. Maybe you could give Crown and Skull a look next?
Definitely! It's been on my shelf and I've only flicked through it! Sorry Hankerin. Will get on it!!
Weirdly enough, I find D&D 5e the worst system for people to start with. I find when trying a new system, it's always the D&D players that dig their heels in unless the game is deliberately trying to copy D&D.
I'm not going to agree 100% BUT I'm also not going to disagree 100%
Perfect
ICRPG and Shadowdark are my favorites
Yes!! I'm going to be playing some EZd6 soon, can't wait!
This production quality is great
Thanks, but we do try and keep the compliments to the producer on the down low. I don't want his ego growing. He might ask to get paid.
Smashing it 💥 keep the videos coming!
Thanks!!!!
Good list. I was hoping for more TTRPGs, other systems that use a d20 for skill/hit rolls includes Lancer. Which isn't a fantasy setting, but rather a sci-fi mech game. Advantages here are that the mechanics for the player side? Free PDF download, and the Comp/Con site can get players access to all the mechanics from splat books for the player side, including new mech licenses, talents, and so on. Only the GM/Lore stuff is behind a paywall, and the lore stuff even has at least a couple good lore series out there on RUclips (thanks 11dragonkid). Lead artist is Abaddon/Tom Bloom of Kill Six Billion Demons, so if you don't like his art style you probably won't like a lot of the art in the books. Cons it requires a map. Not literally, but it is almost as much wargame as it is RPG. And if you are just playing it for the first time starting above License Level 0 is a bad idea as increasing levels exponentially increases the variety of things/abilities that the players have access to which can lead to confusion if you don't already know what you can do very very well.
For more fantasy stylings there is Godbound, a game of divine heroes/villains who literally change the world. It's similar, but not the same by any means, to D&D and Pathfinder in that you have levels and such. Cons... if the GM isn't literally ready to run a game where the players can run roughshod over the setting then it will likely be quite hard. Pros here, there is a free edition of the core book, making price of entry literally just reading the book. This isn't a quick start, but it is literally just the core book meaning that you will likely need to either get home brewed stuff online or make stuff of your own for villains, monsters, and the like. Another pro, in my opinion, is that the players can literally change the setting in dramatic ways from the word go.
I love me some Shadowdark! I play in a bi-weekly game by Facebook Messenger, and it makes my week.
Get in with the Shadowdark!!
We need some regular players. Anyone free Sundays, 2-5pm Pacific Time, can drop in.
dam your channel good
great work
Thanks! Keep em peeled for the next one!!
Just got ICRPG Mater edition on the mail, after getting the first edition, runnerhammer is an amazing creator, also would reccomend his other game War Maker if you want to play an extremly simplyfied vertion of Warhammer
Yes! I have it! I think a revised edition is coming (warmaker) all I'll say is keep peeled for incoming episode!
💯 agree on the top choices. I’d add Cairn to the list. Well written, easy to play, and free. But it gets away from the traditional 6 stats of D&D.
Yeah I was thinking I should've.......separate video?
I want to follow the Dex Save Dan Pathfinder exercise plan.
It's coming! Keep em peeled
Pathfinder 2E is absolutely perfect on the crunch side. I enjoy it so much.
More crunchy than if a Crunchie and a Crunch bar had a love triangle with a raw carrot!
@@DexSaveDan My favourite part is the fact the skills have so many uses in and out of combat. And building an intimidating character is not only functional it's actually a very good choice.
6:16 you use a D&D related image while talking about pathfinder. Also wanted to add, about the pathfinder book weight thing: they also sell a "pocket" version of the same book. its softcover and smaller with everything in it. its awesome.
FFS!! THE EDITOR HAD ONE JOB! *grab my whip* Wait, there's a pocket size version?? How will we market our Fitfinder VHS now?!?!
@@DexSaveDan yes the pocket version is a real godsend.
Thanks for sharing this. I like your whole list.
Thanks mate! More to come!!!
I've played a lot of ICRPG and is it a GREAT system. I've played a couple of sessions of ShadowDark and it left me flat. I would also recommend EZD6. I found both ICRPG and EZD6 to have a similar tone to 5e in that they are also heroic high-fantasy but I enjoy both of them more than 5e.
I've got an EZd6 session coming up, can't wait
Good luck getting a group going. I've played these games since I was 13 and DMd various sized games, mostly but not exclusively cyberpunk with homebrew horror, for almost 30 years. Now I'm in my 50s and damn its hard to find groups to play with or DM for.
Edit: posted to appease the youtube algorithm goblin.
Have you tried free beer? Works for me, that and my striking good looks.
Haha, thanks, great idea. I'm from Scotland so the offer of a drink is always implied. And probably pizza. :D
Wine? Not fortified.
This is great! It is so engaging and informative!
👍👍
I demand that the shocked gnome appears in every episode, and then gets their own series
Absolutely!! I'm glad you're willing to fund this. DM me and we'll get something going!
out of the 10 (i think) ttrpgs i have played, not a single one was as bad as DnD, and only one wasn't exceptionally easier to fully learn (fucking shadowrun!).
my personal reccomendations are either cyberpunk RED or chronicles of darkness. RED is super simple and even has a useful app, its t he easiest thing ever to pick up. chronicles is the perfect intro, to my mind, its got lots of advice that dnd doesn't give iirc (like setting boundaries early or getting inspiration), its a simple system, its _actually_ easy to modify (unlike dnd), its _relatively_ popular, and you don't need hundreds of dollars of books to get a full game.
It's on the list!
If youre into the such, i would always suggest King of Dungeons created by Baz Stevens, it was a kickstarter ttrpg that came through a couple years ago and ive had a good bit of fun with it, although you arent really gonna find much about it outside of the kickstarter, any physical prints, and the avrious pdfs of it.
I'll keep my eyes peeled though. It goes on the list!!!!!
@@DexSaveDan Oh I would try my best if I were you, it's really a charming thing, and I hope you have fun if you get your hands on it! It's kickstarter and DriveThru, at the least, should be easy enough to find.
On it!
Reply if you're interested in an ICRPG or possibly EZd6 one shot GMT+1.
Yes please. Never played EZd6!!
How did you cram all the pages back into that 5e PHB?
Hahaha! I do a good job hiding all sections that have fallen out.
Well looks like i'll be taking a look at Shadowheart then! I'd love to see you go through the process of setting up a game - pretty please?
On it!
Damn dude, you keep making fire 🔥
Thanks mate!! When's your next one?
@DexSaveDan This Wednesday! It's hard to keep a weekly schedule up, I'll keep trying though.
Awesome!! Can't wait for Wednesday!!
Spot on, mate! Spot on.
Yes! Keep em peeled for the next one!
Have you ever tried Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu? D100 system but is so much fun!
I have not! But I HAVE to!!
@@DexSaveDan I'd love to see your take on it once you've had a go
Idk, big disservice not mentioning that Pathfinder 2e's rules are legally free online.
All I can do is say sorry. Can you forgive me? Promise I'll try harder next time. Did some of it make you snigger? just a little bit?
@@DexSaveDan Ngl, the weightlifting bit was funny
That's the goal, lolz for us lot and lolz for beginners
Enjoyed this. Are you going to
Break down other TTRPGs?
I reckon so, got a few videos planned but who knows where it'll go!!
The original D&D little brown books slays D&D
Okay, so, I love your cob pipe (I'm a pipe smoker) any OSR systems that you enjoy?
@@DexSaveDan kind of OSR… I’ve ran Vigilante City and thought it was pretty solid. It’s also easily house ruled to fit your own needs and setting. The Hero’s Journey RPG’s are pretty good too. Either edition is solid depending on what feel you’re going for.
As for the pipe, I have many. Missouri Meerschaum to Savinelli to Petersons and everything in between. I have to say, the cobs are definitely some of my favorites!
Once you drop the D20 and give in to the more consistent D6 I HIGHLY recommend Ezd6.
Yes! I really want to! And I will! Promise!
I think everyone who talks about the D20 dice mechanics in their videos should say you have a target number that you must either roll or roll above it, that would be much easier for a beginner to understand.
Because if a person watches a video and the RUclipsr says roll over, the person being totally new, will be told the target number. For example the target number is 14, then when that beginner rolls, they are going to think they need to roll a 15, it's very confusing for someone who knows nothing about how to play.
Agreed! I should have said meet or beat, but then meet and beat are in the same sentence and that opens up the comments for all kinds of vulgar jokes! Not my style.
I was over D&D when they started with the Tiefling and Dragon man horsecrap.
Definitely! Too unrealistic.
Love the SB6 shirt. I've seen them live a time or two.
Yes!!
I know another D&D-like called Olde Swords Reign. It's basically 5e redone by people who respect your time.
Pros:
Everything you need all in one digest-sized book.
Simplified rules and character creation hearkening back to the 1974 original, but with enough customization to keep character growth interesting.
Simple, evocative black and white art. Maybe not on the level of Shadowdark, but still servicable.
Most importantly, the pdf is FREE.
Cons:
What? It's free.
Okay, fine. It doesn't have any base random encounter tables, but it does have an overview of how to make your own. Worst case scenario, you can also get a game like Basic Fantasy (pdf also free), and use those when starting out.
You've peaked my interest with this! It's on the list but bumped to the top
Subscribed!!
Legend!
Always heard good things about ICRPG, not tried it yet, however.
I like ICRPG more as a seasoning than a full on rule system. Sprinkle in bits and pieces of it to really smooth out and simplify other systems. His assessment of Shadowdark is great and it's easily my favorite right now.
Get on it!
"what's the point of playing pathfinder, when I've got DnD?"
Better balance at any aspect you might want.
Better balance between martials sand casters, better balance between spells and schools, better balance at high levels... Any aspect of this game you can take, just works out of the box.
That's a HUGE advantage over DnD
Someone did say that! I think they forgot to mention about the makeshift kettlebell thing. Unbelievable.
knave,,,, knave is a great slimlined rpg, designed my own ttrpg influenced by knave, shadowdark and ICRPG.... Swords 'n' Stones
Love it!!
When you get your Simon Whistler on Wish.
*TEMU
hahaha that intro lol
@runehammer1 thanks! Hope you made it past 30 seconds!
I love both ICRPG and Shadowdark.
I do find it somewhat amusing, though, that every time people mention alternatives to D&D, they mention D&D-like games. I'd love to see people go a little further afield and try things like Savage Worlds or Fate Core.
Another game called Fabula Ultima is a bit like Fate. It's got a JRPG flare to it, but you can basically play D&D using it as the core system pretty easily, and you'll get some pretty cool multiclass characters out of it too. :)
Right, note to self, something completely different! Noted.
ICRPG really is more a hack of D&D than an alternative to it. I like that it is setting neutral, but even the Master Edition really isn't enough of a coherent game to run for more than a one-shot without the GM taking the time to fashion their own systems out of it.
Also, changing HP to hearts and saying each heart is equivalent to 10hp seems like an idea they brainstormed and forgot to test or remove. It doesn't fix or simplify anything.
@@yourworstfan I don't know... I kind of disagree with that. The hearts do simplify things in that you know at a glance how many HP something has, without needing to roll. I know you can also use an average for HP, but still, seeing 1 heart or 3 hearts tells you very quickly what the creature's approximate power level is. It essentially just rounds off HP to the nearest multiple of 10, but is a handy visual indicator. I don't think it *changes* a lot, but it's not a bad thing, either. Personally, I never really cared for HP to begin with.
I have to admit that I am not sure what you mean when you say it is not coherent and only good for a one-shot. I see no issue in playing a campaign with it, though I do think the intent behind was at least partially to encourage players and GMs to tinker with it and make it their own.
@@jcraigwilliams70 The problem with hearts is that PCs do not do damage in increments of 10. So you still have to count HP anyway.
What I meant about it not being usable as written for long campaigns is that there are no real rules there for character advancement. There are ideas that you can fashion into a system, but it is not a coherent system as is. As ideas for building a game or ideas for hacking your D&D game, it's great. But as a standalone game, it leaves a lot to be desired.
Hell yeah, ICRPG! I’d also recommend Dragonbane, since it’s an easier to learn fantasy TTRPG than D&D and the box set includes literally everything you need to play an RPG right out the gate.
Been mentioned a few times now! Dragonbane here I come!
@@DexSaveDanTried it myself. It's a surprisingly easy system to pick up and it really likes to emphasise finding non-combat solutions to your problems.
A bit dull and simple, but at least it is a big improvement over mathfinder/5e. There are hundreds of better systems though.
What the hell have you done with Eddie? You promised us Eddie
Don't panic. He'll be back.
Valid
Interesting rundown. I felt like there was an element that didn't get much mention, namely--OK, so once you've gotten past the ease or difficulty of the rules, you've spent the money, built up the muscle to carry the book or whatever . . . are they any good to play? I mean, you could have an RPG that was really easy to learn, but if that was because there was only one character class and all they could do was hit things with a melee weapon, that might get a bit old pretty quick, you know? So yeah, once you're going with these RPGs, what can you do with them?
Better subscribe and watch the full in-depth videos as they come, when they come, if they come.......
I am a little sad about how pathfinder 2e seems to be perceived by a lot of content creators. This is not really their fault, it’s just like, a common misconception. The thing is, pf2e is really focused on making the game part of the game interactive and fun, instead of being focused on math and character building and optimisation. There are a lot of options, sure, but they do not feel as important as they do, for example, in 3.5 or 5e, since they are very balanced between each other and more than anything they just permit you to do secondary stuff, and never will directly impact how effective you are. I’d say that it is a game for people who like having to overcome challenges in play (for example tactical challenges for fights, which are way more tactical and fun than in most other ttrpgs, but also exploration challenges, time management challenges, etc etc, they all are very curated so to be fun to interact with), but not really for people who enjoy a lot of math and character optimisation. The amount of options is surely fantastic and help a lot making you character feel unique, but the meat of the game is at the table, unlike in 5e where you can basically win the campaign in character creation
Yup
My 6 INT no like big scary book words, like ICRPG and Shadowdark simple small sentences
Exactly!! I'm happy you picked up on what the video was about! Keep em peeled for the next one!
Yeah ICRPG ROCKS❤❤❤
It does ROCK!
What about Stormbringeror Palladium or Hyperboria or Lamentations of the Flame Princess???
*adds to the ever growing list*
@@DexSaveDan Tell me about it. It was Palladium RPG my first TTRPG and where my idea of how a combat should be.
Video starts at 4:36
Fair
We play 5e and 3.5 still. Which I have been told is like pathfinder or pathfinder is D&D 3.75.
I am done with buying things from WotC though.
👌 have you ever thought of playing another system?
@@DexSaveDan yes we also play Star Wars Saga, GURPS, Fantasy Flight Star Wars too, and we used to play a lot of Twilight 2000 back in the 90’s. Saga is the only non D&D RPG that we have a campaign in right now.
The caveat with PF2e's math is that is no more complex that D&D's math, there is more of it and there is more rules overall but that is because D&D lacks structuring a lot of stuff that is left to the GM to improvise while PF2e actually gives you a much more robust base to start off
Great video, I only heard of ICRPG but never played it
I'll be honest I've only played PF once so maybe it's time to give it another go!? Definitely give ICRPG a try!
@@DexSaveDanPF is for people who's favorite pastime is going to the dentist.
@@danielsommerlykke9475 Counter-argument: Nuh-uh
@@danielsommerlykke9475iiit really is not :p
Like, you can absolutely lean into the crunchyness of it, but it is not central to the system
I like your anti-D&D attitude. The game is so bad and greedy that it inspired me to make my own system. I designed it from the ground up to beat it in almost every category (other than lore and art, I guess).
Amazing! I love it when a rose grows from shit! Go on ya!
Damn no Lancer or GURPs.
Sorry @briandarnell2273 I'll do better
Icrpg campaign when?
Get stuck in!
Love the list, minus the top 2 things on the list. This guy thinks like me, and therefore is smart. Another great game is Dungeon Crawl Classics for zany old school style D&D.
Just sold all my dnd books looking for a solo rpg any ideas
Drop the link to “Beauty and the Balrog” now!
It's in the works
Aside from the cost, my main issue with current D&D is that it's a superhero game with elf ears stuck on. It's essentially turned into the easy mode, no bad feels, version of a game where darkness was once scary, healing slow and adventures dangerous. All of the emotionality that people seem to eat up with a spoon is not really in any of the expensive rule books. So, system should not matter. If you just want to be an overly dramatic "horny bard", you can do that in any game via role play. What D&D does have is a whole lot of rules for grinding, complex murder math. The bulk of it is "killing shit" or utility magic and healing from trying to kill shit.
I am enjoying gaming more now that I moved away from D&D. It just does not feel like what I know as D&D anymore. Shadowdark does. Dragonbane does. I love Runehammer's stuff and if you like ICRPG, you may LOVE Crown and Skull. You want semi-sandbox, emergent story and simple rules that still give interesting battles and allow for player creativity without needless complexity, this game has that covered.
Crown and Skull is pretty top of the list. Bloody Dragonbane! Your comment has pushed me over the edge, I'm buying it!
@@DexSaveDan Thrilled to see what you make of both of them. Dragonbane has been a total blast to run and is one of those games where there is enough familiar content balanced by enough new content and mechanics that everything feels fresh and dynamic. Monsters, as opposed to mook NPCs like goblins and so on, are SCARY and a monster battle can be very tense and down to the wire.
Crown and Skull is REALLY different than a lot of things out there but I would expect no less from Runehammer. It strips down a lot of legacy auto includes from Fantasy gaming and changes focus. Not having stats or any mechanical bonus from being an Elf or whatever is really great. Damage is taken in skills and gear. When you think about it, that defines what you can do in a game. Losing the use of an item or skill until you can recover has far more impact than a chipping at a wall of HP where you are just as capable at 1 HP as 100.
Also, I really like that ALL attacks hit unless blocked or evaded. PCs and monsters both just hit unless prevented from doing so. That really makes fights more interesting in a cinematic style.
What I love about these videos is that they are genuinely helpful, and made with genuine intent to inform and communicate. Rather than just 10 minutes of algorythmic fluff that claims to express some idea or provide a solution and in fact says nothing. This is ACTUAL CONTENT 🎉
Keep em peeled for more. It's a pleasure to help in our own stupid way!!
3.5 and PF1E better be on this list, I know its technically DnD but god damn it does everything every edition does but better. Exploration? Horror? Good combat? Character building? World building? Making a stronghold? Whatever you want it to do, it can do.
I can guarantee you will be bitterly disappointed! If you watch every video of mine moving forward it might get a mention. Just keep checkin'
Or check book store dumpsters😂😂😂
Fuck yeah 🤘🏻
🤘🤘
"TTRPGs that are different from D&D 5e!" First one listed is Pathfinder 2e, which is essentially D&D 5.5...
Lol
Iiit really is not. Like, it does not have any real influence from 5e. Maybe from 4e? But not much to be honest
Hello! I enjoyed your formatting style compared to other D&DTubers but the video was too short and since it uses a few examples (other videos go for even longer and do the same thing with more efficiency yet their formatting not as good).
My videos are a reflection of me. Short, unsatisfying and full of humour to cover up lack of knowledge.....how am I employed?
@@DexSaveDan lmfao earned a sub with this funny response
I like your video. A rules light system using index cards did not slay a 50 year old ttrpg, the first ever ttrpg at that. I understand it isn’t for everyone. Hell I can’t stand anything WotC has had their slimy hands on.
Agree with all of this!
Lukewarm recs
Not too hot, not too cold, just right. Glad you enjoyed it! Keep em peeled for the next one.
That's why I'm glad I live i merica I can pop the bugaler
Maybe just buy pathfinder 2e core roles. cheaper than a.....well you know.
@@DexSaveDan you can get an shooty bang bang for like 25 dollars
F D&D😂🤣😂🤣that is what my gaming group basically said as well.
One con of 5e is the character sheet or what beginning players like to call a "tax form". Filling this out is not fun...it's like doing your taxes.
Index Card RPG is awesome and so is Hakerin!
Yup. It's not 1 sheet though is it. If you're a caster it's bloody 3!! Aarrghhhh
Pathfinder > Dungeons & Dragons.
There it is!
I've been playing 5e, and a lot of homebrew never opened a book, luckily its all online. If i dont know how to do something, I just make it up. 5e is very easy to modify.
Just don't like Pathfinder combat.
MAKE IT UP!! YES! keep em peeled for a video about exactly that
Censoring swearing with swearing. 😂 I wish I could do that in real life!
He's good ain't he?
ICRPG=A-OK
Perfect!
LEARN RUNEHAMMER SO YOU CAN TEACH ME RUNEHAMMER PLEASE AND THANK YOU
Errrrm, okay. Maybe we'll have a private chat.
Can't you just read the book yourself? And WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING IN ALL CAPS?
@@ratatatuff sorry, I had caps lock on, I would read it myself but they haven't released it in Braille yet
@@PlacidLad Oh, I didn't know that. My sincere apologies! I feel bad for my comment now and I'm terribly sorry!
@@ratatatuff it's cool, I was just roleplaying as a blind twat. I'll go read Runehammer's Crown & Skull now, sowwwwwy
Boo to maths! Thanks Dan!
Yeah! The English word!
Pathfinder 2e is almost nothing like D&D 5e. It's a lot more like 4e
Is it?
@DexSaveDan absolutely. It's play is far different from 5e. A lot of people says is has the same feel as 4e with how much it's more of a miniature tactics game.
ICRPG IS BEST DND
Correct.
The system matters little as long as the mechanics aren't silly or overly complicated. The fun is getting together with friends and making memories.
Playing D&D is not expensive. Buying anything is completely optional as long as someone has the PHB. Even that's optional, because you can play with the basic rules for free. The whole thing can be done on your phone.
First person to mention that! Get in! But silly mechanics are awesome, no? The more bat shit crazy the better, no?
I like the idea of D&D but not all the culture around it. Fuck all that shit. Get a mace and some mates and lets go clubbing in the Caves of Fucking CHAOS!!!!
I can get onboard with this!
Nah, not really. Sure, DnD sucks and Pathfinder is better but there are FAR better alternatives. Warhammer FRPG, Savage Worlds, Ubiquity, D6 based systems like Open D6, there are so many. I can't say anything about ICRPG since I haven't even read it but Shadowdark is just so over-hyped and brings nothing new to the table. It's bland, boring and way too expensive. It's mainly random list that one can find for free on the internet. No thanks.
edit: oh, and I think Free League systems should be one of the main alternatives. Symbaroum and Forbidden Lands are just too good to not play them. Though my faves are Coriolis and Mutant Year Zero but they're not Fantasy.
Don't you worry D6 systems will be covered, just a quick rundown. Let me know anymore I should include. Shadowdark, over-hyped? Well that'd make me a conductor, climb aboard Choo Choo!!!
D&D 5e sucks. We don't talk about it. It is only known because of the legacy of previous editions and because of its marketing budget.
Pathfinder is nowhere near 5e. Pathfinder is 3.5e (or more corrwectly, 3.75e)
Never plaid ICRPG, can't comment on it.
Never plaid Shadowdark, can't comment on it.
If you want the real D&D experience, go for AD&D 2nd edition.
My personal favorite system since I was 12 years old (more than thirty years ago) is Rolemaster 2nd/3rd edition. Its greatest Con is its greatest Pro. Everything is possible because ecerything has a table, stat or rule. Every spell under the sun, every profession imaginable, every weapon ever, every skill you might or might not have heard of.
Want to play an ex-orgre phalanx hunter with professional olympic levels of boat rowing skills? Can do.
Want to be an escrima wielding centaur necromancer who has taking their harpsichord hoby to professional levels? Why not.
Want to be an adventure-hardened trogolodyte prostitute or a spell casting goblin harem eunuch? Go for it.
Even a halfling werewolf immortal martyr is not outside the realm of possibilities.
Caution, this is not a game for people who suffer decission paralysis.
I love your disclaimer. Probably my new favourite thing.
Nah man, D&D is super lame. I'm pretty enamoured with Genesys and Cypher personally.
Boom! Is it weird I'm feeling a bit bad for DnD??
So, level+proficiency+bonus+item+circumstance+status is a lot of math? An operation of addition with 6 variables? and most of them only range from 1 to 8?
Really, is that the only difference between the math of pathfinder and DND. Damage is mostly the same.
AC is mostly the same
Initiative is mostly the same
If I would not recommend Pathfinder 2 for its math, I would not recommend Pathfinder 2 because of the hundreds of feats and options to personalize your character.
And the worst of it is that all the contents (except for the adventures) are free online supported by the creators... Wait a minute, that's actually good 🤔 (just a bit overwhelming if you don't know how to use the filters)
Filters?
@@DexSaveDan in the tables, of the web, there is an ocean of options. Don't let your players go there unless they're into that sht or have experience. Is too much to handle, take my word
Word taken.
genuinely disagree with everything he says about DnD. He's talking to it like ur a DM, or you're playing in person all the time. players don't need the player handbook. They can, but don't need it at all. DnDbeyond makes characters for you, and the DM knows everything else. So work with your DM. And price? Cheap as chips compared to 40k. Even cheaper if you play online.
The best way to get into DND is just to play it! find an online or local group and play. Don't bother with the books I never have. (unless the yare campaign modules)
Genuinely couldn't agree more!.... wait, isn't 40k a miniature wargame? Have I been playing it wrong all these years?? Why didn't anyone tell me!?!? Thanks man.