Stop PERFORMING and Start ROLE PLAYING
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
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Want to learn how to role play? Want your TTRPG experience to be more immersive like @criticalrole or @dimension20show? STOP trying to be a performer and START being a ROLE PLAYER.
#criticalrole #dimension20 #dnd #ttrpg #roleplay
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Long ago, I created an (initially) background NPC character who was a paladin. Players were in a boat. The boat began sinking during a storm, and I thought right on the spot that the most believable thing that character could do was to prioritize everyone's safety before his own. He put the players on a lifeboat as water slowly dragged him down because he had been running around rescuing people in heavy armor. The one single phrase the players ever heard from him was "Go! Save yourselves!" before he pushed them away from the wreckage, as there wasn't enough space for him to get in the lifeboat too. All players kept trying to figure out from which temple that paladin had come, so they could bring offerings and tell the clerics what had happened. One of them became a paladin later on just because of that NPC. He ended up becoming a major NPC posthumously. One of my best bite-sized role-play moments, and all it took was to 'be' the guy for two minutes.
Why did reading this make me misty eyed 💀🥺
YHour paladin would've made it if he had taken off his armor
@@edible0pig That isn't something you can just do in a time limited situation. Every secpnd spent saving himself like that would be time not spent saving others.
I'm not crying, you're crying
@@chatnoir9038😅 I’m not the only one?!?! I would’ve become a Paladin too just cause of that.
I like the idea that, when running a game, the GM wants Game of Thrones, and the players provide Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
😆 Immersion, you say!?
I went to GM school and the only videos they had was Monty Python and the Holy Grail and the Princess Bride.
The GM sets the table, the Players throw the spaghetti.
lol. 100%.
I’m not Matt Mercer. I’m not Brennan Lee Mulligan. I’m going to run a game in the manner I feel comfortable with, and if you are looking for high drama, try Shakespeare in the park.
I only managed to get this kind of immersion fully once when playing, and not to be over dramatic or anything, but I think being able to become that character actually changed me as a person. She was outgoing and optimistic, I wasn’t. Playing her made me more confident in myself, more willing to take risks, and helped me understand myself in a way I never had before. I loved that character, and she made me love myself a little more too.
This is EXACTLY the thing why I love D&D and role-playing games!! I have a transgender character whose deity is Lathander: god of "new beginnings." ThIs character holds a special place in my heart, for he's helping me accept my gender identity. He transitions while I'm transitioning. This character and his deities relationship brings me the most amount of inner peace I've ever felt in my life. I cannot thank my fictional D&D character enough for helping me along the way.
@@Dreamy_Sheepythis is so beautiful ❤ ❤❤
I absolutely agree, role playing a character can be really impactful! The character I played for 3 years is very different from me and very flawed, but I love her.
This is beautiful ❤
This reminds me of my own dnd character, who is a bit of a self insert but as I'm painfully shy, never willing to take risks, afraid to talk to people, she is extroverted, doesn't know shame, dives head first in all sort of things, shows a lot of affection towards her friends... It's fun playing her
Take this scene for example, cuts to an ad where a demon lady brands a guy's ass.
😂😂😂😂
Ah I see you too are bombarded by hero wars ads that make you wish for blindness
@@dragonthumbs7727 brain-bleach should be a thing
@@dragonthumbs7727their better than ai generated scam ads youtube forces me to watch.
Peasants with your ads… *pulls out pockets to reveal nothing but lint*
The thing is Brennan and Matt have come out and said multiple times
"Look. We come from various levels of acting and improv. Of course our games are going to look and sound better... but that's not what is important. The important part is who we're playing with. Our friends. Don't play like we do it. Unless you can make it work. If so great. But just have fun. However you can with the world building and mechanics of D&D and other TTRPG systems."
Not exactly that. But the fact they've said something even close to that is really good to hear.
That's why I don't see the "Matt Mercer Effect" as something bad per se, because the people being annoyed by "new players trying to have the Critical Role experience" are just complaining about one side of a medal.
To me, the "Mett Mercer Effect" also has another side, like bringing more players to the table, creating new DMs, inventions of new system. DnD and TTRPG were always somewhere on the side-lines, and CR just had the right chemistry at the right time to bring everything from the sideline into everyone's line of sight.
May they be actors, experienced LARPers or just enthusiastic players, they might bring more immersion to the table than anyone who just wants to "replay CR/D20"
People saw a group of friends having fun and sharing amazing stories together, and wanted to have the same experience, but to have the same experience, they would need to be part of that group, because, like you quoted, you can't have the SAME experience.
If your group get's a similar experience naturally, that's awesome, but you can't force it, and if you try to do so, you'll probably end up with destroying the whole experience with every participant being annoyed or disappointed.
@MikaeruDaiTenshi the primary reason I haven't gotten into dnd and just watch Matt, Smosh's, or Viva La Dirt Leagues is because all I see and hear are seasoned players complaining about new players.
It's like you can't please them at all, they're only gonna be shitty and criticize you for being new and I hate that shit.
@@Jagger-Tyr_13 To be fair, I wanted to play for ages and only started playing in 2021 or something like that. - My first two sessions where kinda rough, because I wasn't that fit with the rules yet.
Most other sessions I than occasionally rules-lawyered* because half the people didn't care to learn anything about the rules, even though they already had played before, had made randomized characters and seemingly didn't even look at their sheet prior to the game once, or had troubles finding the sheet at all. -
Our group even tried to stream it on twitch (we played over discord), and, while we might have had our fun, nobody in their right mind would have watched it, as it was a complete mess half of the time.
Some of us try to do voices, but I don't think we do this to "be like" the known professionals, rather than to distinguish between In-Character and Out-of-Character Talk. Also it simply gives more flavor or "character" to the character. So we encourage people joining us to do so, but we don't force them.
Some older players might hate new players because they see them as invaders, trying to have the same experience as them, but with different values and ideals.
Just like some seasoned players hate online-ttrpg saying they'll only play in person. I mean, you'll find players saying "theater of the mind" is the only way / best way to play and despise actual maps (doesn't matter if built by hand or digitally)
So, yea. You just have to find the right people to do it.
One of the reasons I don't play a lot, is because my group of friends I play with, are difficult to schedule with, and I don't really want to play with strangers. - If you don't have a problem playing with strangers, the best course of action is to go on discord of DnDBeyond or any other DnD or even other TTRPG-System's discord and look there. Or at your local tabletop-game stores.
But sure, you can also just watch others play.
*(just pointing out for the rules-lawyer haters out there, that I was even asked by our DM to do so, because he didn't have a good grasp of the rules either, so whenever he was unsure, I either knew the answer or quickly looked it up, and ofc, when he still wanted to rule something different, then that's what we went with)
People acting like Critical Role invented trope characters, as though "horny bard" and "fireball wizard" weren't pillars of how the game evolved.
I will say though, people don't play Jester right. A happy go lucky magic caster is either meant to be new and bright eyed, or absolutely insane. Look at characters like Doctor Who's Toymaker. Or Supernatural's Gabriel. It's not "lolsorandom" it's either a coping mechanism or a sense of innocence to be protected as long as possible.
@@AnonYmous-mc5zx To be fair, characters from tv-shows are mostly fully developed and written my (mostly) professional writers, so it's easy to have them be a specific way, while in TTRPG, you're mostly improvising and your rolls may turn your specific idea into something else, so actual written characters seem less random. - As for CR-Characters, their players are (voice) actors, so they at least have a professional feeling on how their character would do stuff and evolve. (which is the part most "newcomers" don't realise)
Also, the "CR Character trope" is just a natural evolution. THere are many MANY players that just try to recrate existing characters, doesn't matter if they're from CR, or LotR, Avatar, Naruto, Dragonball, Witcher, Robin Hood, Arthur, Marvel/DC, and so on and so on.
Those "tropes" will always exist, and there will always be new ones. With Critical role, it was just easier because the actualy character builds were already written.
That Sir Ian McKellen clip should be required watching for all actors and roleplayers alike.
From a series called Extras. 100% binge worthy.
We will give you a script...but it must be memorized by opening night. There will be no scripts on stage opening night.
Much agreement there. A little bit of "acting" is okay when paying a RPG, but this table- dramatic crap is nothing short than embarrassing! Especially when everyone starts pretending they're in a Monty Python skit.
I am NOT in fact a wizard...@@kereymckenna4611
@@chrkel-e2i Sadly, I have had to eject players who could not read the table and restrain their Python/Princess Bride/Firefly/et al. quotes during dramatic game moments. I have no problem at all with using quotes from anything if they are appropriate to the moment. Bathos is low hanging fruit, and irresistible to some people.
It's pretty appropriate for Blanche, because the character itself often seems to be "putting on a show" for others, she herself is theatrical.
Agreed, casting is perfect, not a knock on Vivian Leigh who I stan
Indeed, it's a good match for the character. That's one of the brilliances of the movie, even the actors' acting styles are from different worlds, just as Blanch and Stanley are from different worlds.
As an actor and gamer, this is all so accurate.
A lesson I learned during my time performing improv, was don’t try to be funny. Don’t TRY to make a moment happen. Be honest. LISTEN. Support the others involved with you.
From that, a genuine performance will develop, one that is often amusing, and sometimes heartbreaking.
The MOST emotional scene I ever performed in school was improvised on the spot, turned into three separate scenes that wove back and forth showing snippets from three points in time, and it was incredible. The whole room was in tears. And it all started because I reached for my keys on my belt, didn’t have them, so I made a different choice.
Don’t force something, just feel it.
I would love to hear more about that performance if you’d like to share!
@@halgaucher6730if the performance was real they would have told you about it in excruciating detail
We gotta hear what that scene was!! Why was the audience in tears? Why did you need your keys?
@@Evan345gdf it’s a long post, I started writing it, but if I backspace the wrong way on computer it deletes the ENTIRE comment. I had it mostly done, and then it was gone. I didn’t have the time or the mental fortitude to do it again in that moment, and then because of work I forgot.
It happened. I’ll write it down again when I get a chance.
What many people don't know, and sometimes never fully understand, is that acting is almost entirely learning how NOT to act.
This reminds me a lot of "The C Team" on Penny Arcade from several years ago. The DM in that group had a very low-energy style. He didn't put on accents or go in for dramatic narration, but he ALWAYS played his characters straight. And I remember being really impressed that no matter how chaotic the party acted, or how outlandish the story got, the DM could always sell it in the end because he never stopped being sincere.
I find that people mostly like to explore funky places and make meaningful choices in there. They like discovering how much freedom they have. Anything I say is probably partial or possibly imperfect information, but asking more questions is free. People have fun when they figure out they don't have to wait on me, they can lift barrels and knock around the wall.
Sometimes it's not worth interacting in detail with every dang person. A lot of people in town aren't going to be that interesting. Every ten minute spent trying to wring something out of them is time not spent exploring the unknown. You can only chat with so many stablehands before it gets old.
sincerity is one half, but credibility is the other.
But don't forget Blanche herself is putting on a performance. Her whole thing is trying to put on an illusion to the people around her. That's what Stanley clocks immediately.
Correct. I love Leigh and she was one of the greats of her era.
"you need to realize what you are doing is not a performance for others, but an exercise in imagination for yourself."
Aaaaaand subbed
Yes that's the moment I subbed too
Yarp
Oh, this is why I sometimes can get in character and sometimes can't.
That moment when your character does or says something you yourself didn't even think of doing or saying is when you know you've "done it right". Such an amazing feeling for you and such a surprise for your fellow players
Absolutely this!!!
I think those just right moments, come from a place we're told to forget about in todays society.
The point about rules-lite RPGs is important.
Simplicity isn’t a virtue by itself; the game needs to be simple in *ways that matter* and complicated in *ways that matter*.
I will always point to AD&D 1e: it has comparatively simple character systems nested in complicated and robust campaign management systems.
The best games trying to simulate something are able to figure out which mechanics ought to be complex and which should be streamlined.
pinned for the midwits
I'm sorry, sir; I can't reach that far up... 😢@@blacklodgegames
At the risk of outing myself as a midwit, I feel like this might be a good video topic all itself@@blacklodgegames
SWADE is far better
I agree that rules don't mean less roleplaying, but I don't think people should interpret that as "don't ever play rules-lite games" either. I have been looking into some fun looking games, that lean more rules-lite, such as Cairn, Mausritter, and some others. Cairn especially seems perfect for something like a one-shot with a group who has never played an RPG before and isn't ready to commit to learning a whole rulebook. But also if your group wants to try something out a new genre like SciFi without having to learn Traveller or the Star Wars RPG yet, there's hacks of Cairn in different genres. Point is, definitely try other rpgs, heavy or lite rules, but don't do it just because of roleplay.
There is nothing quite like being with a group of people who can be fully immersed in their characters. I still remember so many moments from a campaign I did 6 years ago because everyone was so into being their characters. It's unfortunate that in most games I've played since moving there has always been at least one or two players determined to have no semblance of immersion either because they are irony poisoned or because they refuse to read the rules and have to ask questions every 15 minutes.
Many such cases!
I've had few games where the whole session was like this, but many moments across many games. One of the most memorable though, was when my party was caught in a big stand off in a grave yard between six different factions, and about 60+ enemies on the other side, who were all enemies with each other as well. Tension was high, the Pc's were trapped in a crypt, and various heads of those enemy parties were trying to negotiate for them to come out. One of them called to the group, and tired of their games, they said that they should give up the macguffin, and "Surrender! Only fools would think they could win against so many foes. Surrender and we will let you go free."
My party looked at each other, and burst out laughing as one. And the thing that makes it most memorable to me, was that they were laughing in character. I don't how to convey it, but for a moment, it wasn't my friends and family members there at the table, it was a rag tag group of adventurers too crazy to even think about surrender for a second, laughing in the face of death. I know all those people, and those weren't their laughs. Somehow we were all keyed into the same magic moment, briefly transported to another place and time. It was great.
Then I had an enemy wizard cast erupting earth on the doorway of the crypt, and the ceiling collapsed on their heads, and I ran the most intense combat of my DMing career. Six factions, 60+ enemies, all fighting the PC's and each other, with multiple high level casters and a fight that ended up going across three sessions, teleporting to five locations, featured two armies, a kraken, a fleet of cloud giants, an ancient gold dragon, and a crowd of mermaids. They won, and somehow no one died, it was amazing.
@@Lurklen That's the tightest shit I've ever heard.
@@Drekromancer It is a singular moment in my time as a DM, and nothing as yet has matched it, but some things have come close. Sometimes things just click like that, and suddenly a great moment is unlocked.
It's so, so hard to get my players to WANT to learn the rules well enough for any of this.
Choose a different game system. There are plenty that aren't ridiculous tomes that cost $100.
It's because most game systems are needlessly overcomplicated, full of rules requiring errata, and people have real lives that require their time. You choose to be a DM that's your choice. You shouldn't expect everyone at the table to share your obsessive need to memorize every rule.
Agree with @MollyGermek and @ZiddlersRooFurry. And disagree with this video saying rules-lite has nothing to do with this. The fewer rules to master, the easier the path to mastery. The trick is to find a good match between your group and a rules set.
Before our current campaign, I ran 5 one-shots, each in a different system. We voted to play Cyberpunk Red. Just crunchy enough to support tactical combat on a grid, but it plays fast and furious once you master the rules. It all depends on your group. If they don’t need minis and tactical combat, that opens up a lot more game choices. But that’s not my group.
@@ZiddersRooFurryhot damn, dial it back a bit on that projection why don't you? What's up with saying the guy has an obsession because you read a single harmless comment? There's nothing obsessive about wanting your players to learn the game, when you're a gm devoting hours of your free time to bring fun to your group. Your aggression came out of nowhere.
@@ZiddersRooFurry why are ppl so agressive over this? geez
One of the things that helps me get a little more immersed is NOT to try to do a voice, especially something that I'm not really familiar with, and knowing as much as I can about that character and what they want or are doing at the time. What they want. Those things that a lot of people skip when they make a character.
You'll probably come up with a different affect for your voice over time, but an accent really doesn't matter. You are absolutely right about focusing on who the character is
Motives drive the character. You figure out the motives, and you find your character
Thank you. For years I assumed when GM'ing when I role play an NPC I was doing it for the players, screw them, I'm doing for me. That's why I GM. I love immersing myself in different NPC's personalities.
Damn right
"It is not from the benevolence of the fighter, the ranger, or the cleric, that we expect our verisimilitude, but from their regard to their own interest."
-Adam Smith, probably.
"From each PC according to their ability, to each Character Class according to their need" - Carl Marks
I had a moment at a game last week where my experienced players were rightly terrified to interact with a strange NPC (because they understand the rules of the system and how fragile their PCs are) but the new guy hadn't figures this all out yet (his 2nd game ever). His character acted in opposition of their concern and later he hung around after everyone had left to complain that he wanted more action out of the scenes. I tried to explain to him that none of the characters are heroes and multiple PCs have met their end LARPing as heroic characters until players realized we aren't playing Saturday morning cartoons the RPG. We're playing outsmart the invulnerable minotaur and escape with the McGuffin before bull cultists sacrifice us to the chaos gods.
let me guess, mork borg?
@@MrCywil no sir. Shadowdark/Cyclopedia
Maybe your players need to realise, how their characters don't know the rules and genre of the game?
I see a lot of opposites:
1. Players act like their characters know, they are replacable.
2. Players are terrified of something happening to the character, so they are overly cautious and try to exploit ther´ir knowledge of genre and narrative structure.
What you want is:
Character reralistically goes about the one life they have.
(At least in most settings. My Pokémon players know, I will not kill them so fast, because we are going for slightly more grown up slapstick anime.)
To be fair - there are plenty of systems out there where you can be the tough guy from the get go and also enjoy it. And I think this is completely fine. RPGs are escapism and sometimes you just want to be the strong barbarian who smashes face on every occasion.
@@Brainfracture I don't disagree. We play a bunch of different ones and I was clear with the him on the tone of the game and the scope as well. I essentially told him that I'll be running something later that'd be more in line with his taste. He understood.
Hearing that you've done voice over work honestly makes perfect sense now with how well you've done these vids now.
I was a full blown theatre kid (I got better)
Big agree, with one exception; it's ok to be greedy about that feeling as long as you're not diminishing that feeling from other people at the table, remember that everyone at the table wants to have fun too
I remember a time we were playing a game that was a light-hearted sci-fi space setting that was pretty heavily focused on the comedic / ridiculous aspects of our games. However, there was one person who either didn't understand that, or wasn't told it properly to the GM. He made a very serious character, and started to get bothered and take on out of the game. We ended up having to stop the game, and tell him.
"Well, how was I supposed to know that the game wasn't gonna be serious?" He asked.
"Dude." One of us chimed in. "The currency in the game is called 'Space Bucks.'"
Had the opposite experience for me, our group usually plays standard, fantasy setting(not to gritty, not to funhearted) but we usually make it more lighthearted in the end because of player antics.
So I wanted to make a comic relief one game and made a chunnibyou, completely exaggerated, sorcerer with a loving family, and other than delusions of grandeur, a completely jovial happy(if a bit cowardly despite a tough act) person who is chaotic good. Of course, this was the campaign where I forgot to join the preplanning discord call, and completely miss the small detail of this campaign being a gritty, dark, cesspit located in the deep dark belly of the underdark.
My guy was not ready for cannibalism and having to craft makeshift weapons out of enemies bones.
@@drunkenthoughts6072 God, this is a weird one that I wasn't a part of, but a friend was. He was in a GURPS game being run by someone I didn't like. It was supposed to be a Monster Hunter game, but it legit went in 3 sessions without anyone seeing a single monster. When all of the players got angry and just quit, the DM just went "Humanity were the real monsters."
I could actually see this working well if they wanted it to, a serious/straightman character in a funny setting sounds like it could be hilarious
@@Liliphant_ Yeah honestly they vibed with us from our point of view, they worked pretty well. But out-of-character the person wasn't getting what he wanted out of the game, so it couldn't be helped. Unfortunate, but can't expect someone to keep playing if they're not having fun for everyone else's sake.
That was the best advice that I've encontered to this day. At the same time it realigned my expectations on roleplay and instructed me on how to roleplay. Thank you, I was in need of hearing this advice. I've watched many videos on how to roleplay, but none of them were as clear as this video. Keep up the awesome work!
Thanks! Share it with others looking for advice!
Well done, especially the "cart before the horse" line. Exactly!
I remember giving a speech as my paladin Simon the Templar about forty years ago; that was the first time I was really in the moment as my character but that experience has colored everything I do as a player and GM ever since. And yes, that was AD&D 1e.
So, Sunday night was the finale of a campaign we'd been on for almost a year. My character and one of the other player's characters had backed each other up a lot throughout the entire campaign, over time slowly tending to stay closer to one another during combat, spending more time talking out of it. There was a big scene where our two characters were knocked from an airship and had to work out a way to try and save one another; my character used a spell Gust of Wind to slow the descent. At the end of the campaign, big bad defeat, my character proposed to her character and it made her cry a bit because she'd grown so attached to her character.
Players don't decide what happens, they say what they attempt to do, and the DM says what happens.
The biggest hurdle in roleplaying is coming up with how your character would act, and being consistent. It's really easy to react like you normally would, and it's difficult to react like someone else would.
That is "Mother May I" roleplaying, and you are a bad gamer and bad DM if this is what you do and expect other players to do. Players describe actions, the DM then interprets those actions into gameable mechanics and arbitrate the consequences of those actions.
I bet you are also the type of player that asks for rolls too, "Can I roll perception?" "May I roll investigation?"
Be better.
@@KraftyMattKraft - Lol. Asking the player to make a roll is not mother may I DMing. You said the same thing in different words. Arbitrating consequences is saying what happens. Don't make assumptions about how I play. Your assumptions are wrong.
@@KraftyMattKraft Look in the mirror and repeat your last line.
Not only are you wrong in your belief that you know the "right" way to play, the way you talk to other people is an embarrassment to the hobby.
@@KraftyMattKraft So to rephrase what you just said in response to the OP,:
You declare "I use stealth and burn down the village and nobody stops me".
The DM asks you to roll for a stealth check to see if you succeed
You chuck an almighty wobbly, go online afterwards and complain that your DM is bad because they're a 'mother may I' DM.
So, I'm going to assume you're a very young person who hasn't learned how to handle RNG failure and you just want the dice to F off entirely out or your RPGs because the dice are why you can only attempt to do a thing and the DM has to say what ends up happening. All the OP left out of their sentence was the dice.
@@KraftyMattKraft god you would be such a horrible player to have to dm for
Awesome video. One thing that's implied but I don't think was said explicitly is: Make your PCs people you can enjoy being.
I always say this: Critical Role (or any hig tier D&D/RPG podcast around) is to Roleplay what Pornography is to Sex.
It's Drama, i'ts a show made by professionals for other to enjoy and are not intended to recreate an everyday experience.
Roleplaying is fundamentally taking on the role of a fictional character in a fictional world and making the decisions you think that character would make if they and their world were real. It's about the decisions. Everything else is just colour and flavour.
Exactly! It's about adopting the mindset of a different person and taking action in a fantasy world with real consequences.
It seems like knowing the rules is definitely one of those "hard-to-swallow" pills at a lot of tables. Without mechanics simulating the game, it feels like success and failure is arbitrary if you can appeal to the DM's sense (or lack) of imagination. Rules also just make it easier for everyone to be on the same page about how things work (even if 5e stealth mechanics are spread across several pages) and result in a smoother experience overall. Great video!
great video! i sometimes get in my head too much about not looking stupid during the games which definitely makes the RP suffer
This video SLAPS 🔥 Absolutley incredible advice here, and truly a takeaway many need to hear! Both as a DM AND a player, I'm constantly asking my group "WWXD?" or "What would (character's name) do?" Too often do we get caught up in theatrics and "acting right" that we cheat ourselves that immersion.
Well done, BLG! 🙌🏻 This was amazing to watch!
Thanks!
I’ve watch a good amount of you guys’ content, and I have enjoyed it thoroughly, but I’ve always had the thought that I didn’t quite understand your perspective on ‘how to play’. This video finished that puzzle for me. I can not explain how great I find the concept you’ve articulated here.
Superb video. I come from a LARP background, which is basically character immersion for a weekend at a time and your video really nails it. Thanks for this! I am going to share with my players. :)
Please do!
As a learning DM, this makes me feel so much more comfortable and excited to run my games!!
I often get self conscious about looking silly and such and I've been told that I can look pretty silly at times - my players always come back though
I can't wait to try and put this to use
Best RPG advice I have seen in a long time.
Share it!
I find mannerisms help me get back into the mindset of my character after a week of not playing. I dont know how brando does it with a script, i would find that so jarring. Truly a talent.
Exactly. But, accents, mannerism, specific vocabulary, cadence and voices should be done for you. As a function of your immersion, not as a way to put a show for the rest of the people at the table.
Meaning, do them if it helps you get into the mindset to the character and not to get claps as a great "actor" or whatever.
I like doing voices and accents as a GM, but I do it so its easier for everyone to understand when an NPC is talking and when I am talking, and also like I said, because I like it.
As a Player, I sometimes use voices but not always.
@@GamerGarm yeah, I think it comes from being a GM, because it's how I transition to different character mindsets, and I just carried it over to being a player.
@@DiomedesRangue Agreed. I find cadence and word choice carry much more weight than accents and voices.
A Knight/Paladin for me will speak formaly and will be always polite. A scoundrel will use crass and crude words and turns of phrase and be more sarcastic in general.
@@GamerGarmI agree! I dont like when players just talk like they normally do. It's very jarring to my immersion, so it's a must at my table.
Back in film School i had to do some acting now and then, comming from the im provisation of rpgs it was horribly hard, and feel sad for my fellowship students who had to put up with my limited acting abilities.
Extremely well put, especially the points about the modern irony poisoning and lack of genuineness in roleplay, and the importance of the mechanical side of TTRPGs.
Thank you!
@@blacklodgegames And a cool new profile pic too.
You have nailed it. I have been trying to explain this to people and players for decades, and here it is. Well done!
Liked, Subbed, Saved, and Shared.
This is so very valid. Normal role playing game sessions should be more about the player engaging in the game, THROUGH their character, and less about the player "acting" LIKE their character. I encourage my players to use the first person when saying what they are doing, like "I climb the wall" instead of saying "Torgus climbs the wall." I'm more focused on encouraging the players to BE in the headspace as their character, and less focused on them doing any voice acting and performance.
So for me the question is- are you good with BOTH. The player becomes the character with their accent (good or bad) and that's how they embrace the character? I was a daycare teacher for a few years and I've been a mom for over a decade, and a babysitter & older sibling & cousin even longer. I've always given each character their own voice in kids books, and even in my head when I read they each have a voice- the curse their is I have a hard time listening to audio books if the reader's voice doesn't match what the book character sounds like in my head if I've already read some of the series. (I.E. the Critical Role books read by the CR cast that voiced the characters initially are GREAT and Robbie Daymond's voice is calm, soothing, and still engaging. I've also listened to the "Infinity Reaper" series he reads with a couple other people and the 3 main characters have different voices and are covered by the different readers. I enjoy that, others don't care for it. However, I've been reading Janet Evanovich's Stephanie Plum series for about 10 years and I CAN NOT listen to them on audible because the reader doesn't match my brain's version of "Stephanie" so I have to find something else to play on long trips, those have to be physical books for me.)
@@m.robinson5331 short answer, yes - if a player enjoys acting and voicing their character, then certainly I would welcome them to do so in the game. But if someone wasn’t interested or capable of acting or voicing their character, I would want them to just play the game and not worry about being a performer. Make sense?
holy shit Bill Allan! Your DnD with high school students series got me into DnD, thank you !
6:52 Couldn't have said it better myself. Cynicism and commitment to irony. That is _everywhere_ . Trying to burn that out from the brains of other people is so difficult.
Thank you. You put into words what I was trying to define and describe for a long time, now.
I noticed that, for some reason, players (including myself) sometimes try to "impress a third person or an invisible audience" while distancing themselves from the table and fellow players where the actual game happens. And I could never fully explain that observation or narrow down what actually happens in those moments.
The clip explained a lot for me and I feel relieved and confident to relish the precious moments with everyone once more.
I remember watching my player lose track of the real world for the first time, becoming fully immersed in the conflict at hand. For me as a DM, that is the ultimate dopamine hit. 😁
Great advice, honestly. I do put on an accent when I’m in my game sessions, but it’s mostly because I’ve found it’s easier to stay in character that way.
Hear, hear. Can confirm. My best campaign thrived solely because of this. Great times.
Good to hear!
This has got to be the best video on roleplaying I have ever seen. I'll make sure to send it to MANY people...
I'm sure many GMs have run into countless troubles stemming from this. But now here's a video explaing it succintly
Thank you and please do share it!
I actually didn't like where you were going at first but now I've saved it to my va/acting AND D&D tips folders. Going to have my players watch this before a session.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing
"There will be no scripts on the night!" - Sir Ian McKellen
I wrote a paper for my bachelor about creativity and its role in (music) education. Your points about children playing pretend and needing ‘rules’ really hits home and (kind of) confirms that my theories are applicable to way more scenarios than I had anticipated. Loved the video!
I would urge everyone to dive in to theories about divergent and convergent thinking. Anyone could learn a thing or two about how we put ourselves in ‘creative’ scenarios.
I grew up in the 80s and started with the Red Book, where you really didn't do much roleplaying. You just went around exploring knowing each PC had their role. I thankfully can get into my NPCs now as I did do some acting in college and such. The game is different today.
A lot of dungeon encounters aren't going to be chatty or social. Some crabs are just going to be crabbin' around having their best crab day. You can do a lot of roleplaying and the PCs will chat between eachother but they're likely not going to chat up the crabs. A lot of challenges aren't even encounters but the environment itself.
I know older urban modules could be a lot more social. Vampire the Masquerade managed to create adventures where the social connections between scheming little cliques and factions and individuals mattered. Adventuring in town means other people are constantly around you.
Seriously thank you for articulating this. Hope this take permeates the ttrpg space for its own sake.
Share it around!
Thank you! I played D&D in the late 80s and early 90s, and now the last few years have started again, and I cannot stand how so many people at the table have a "voice" for their character but no understanding of their personality or backstory. Not everyone needs a backstory and people can play how they want, but I think most people play this way because they were introduced to D&D by these dramatized shows and they don't know any other way.
100% correct
Underrated. This should have millions of views.
Share it everywhere!
♥♥@@blacklodgegames
What exactly did you find so profound? I'm genuinely curious.
Another good one. It's thought-provoking for me, in that I don't believe most players are fertile ground for roleplaying, at least in my experience. What you describe takes emotional and real work to achieve - far easier to roll dice and play stats. At most, for myself, the only real roleplaying is myself and 1 or 2 of the players; the rest seem just to bear mostly mute witness to the session interspersed with some laughs, groans, and rolling dice.
Oh, and keep up the harsh critiques! There is meaningful truth revealed through pain.
I do like RP, but I am kind of balanced when it comes to it. I don't make it a theater kind of experience but the ones that do end up consuming most of the time and barely letting those who could RP and move the story forward in the sidelines.
I had shared this video with my own community last week (as you saw), as what you explain here resonates incredibly well with one of the earliest notions I impart to my students. Despite the difference in subject matter, you've done an amazing job of breaking down our natural desire to be impressive to other people, and how that gets in the way of the actual activity being performed - whether it's roleplaying, or drawing, or really any other remotely creative pursuit.
There is just one thing that I felt was missing (and I only caught this after watching the video two or three times), and it's on the topic of learning the system like the back of your hand. In drawing, the system is essentially the handful of core, fundamental skills we leverage regardless of what we're drawing - mechanics of markmaking, the understanding of how the marks we make on a flat page represent things that exist in three dimensions, and so forth. A lot of students want deeply to be able to approach learning these things like studying in class - they read, they memorize, they watch demonstrations, and all of that is certainly extremely valuable.
But, as I'm sure is the case with learning the system of an RPG, that simply isn't enough - that'll only put you in a position to know those rules so long as you're actively thinking about them, leaving very little room for the creative aspect of the activity. In order to push them down into your subconscious, to use them reflexively so all of your cognitive resources can be focused on immersing yourself, on *being* the character you're playing, you have to play the game. That inevitably means accepting that you're probably going to be bad at it - or at least, not as good at it as you'd like to be - initially.
In my experience teaching the core fundamentals of drawing, I've seen countless students despair at the idea of spending time drawing, if they know it's going to come out badly. It's one of the hardest things they encounter, and is consistently more difficult for them to accept as unavoidable. I expect there are a lot of people who similarly want to jump straight to being able to immerse themselves effortlessly, but are terrified at the gaming sessions that lay between where they are now, and that goal.
At the end of the day, there is absolutely nothing wrong with embarrassing yourself, and if you can be okay with that, there's very little that can ultimately stand in your way.
100% agree and in conversations we've had elsewhere on the channel we have likened role playing as a hobby to being like learning to draw or play a musical instrument. It takes some buy in, patience, and practice to get better, but it is absolutely worth it, and not only at the end point when you have gotten better. The whole process is rewarding, if difficult.
Putting effort into things you love is good in itself.
Coming across your channel really helped me come into my style as an rpg designer. Before I would do what was mechanically sound for the game I was making, but now I do that while thinking how these mechanics help the players become immersed in their characters.
"Going to acting school didnt matter at all for me" proceeds to summarize stanislovsky
Yes, he was a moron.
Fully commit to the imagined world. We do it every day we go to work.
I would add that adding in expectations is a huge thing... A lot of people who jump into D&D have seen a CR or similar show and think that everyone wants that when that isn't necessarily the case. There's no "Wrong" way to play D&D, but there is absolutely a wrong way to cultivate a D&D group of players with mixed expectations.
9:00
I definitely feel like this is a misconception people have about why one would use a rules-light system. Frankly, I think that one should only really start considering them if they're already comfortable with freeform, improvisational roleplay. I've had a good time with systems like FIST and FATE, but I've been doing tabletop and exclusively narrative play by post games for a long time. For a newer player, I'd recommend something with more hard rules to latch onto and bounce off of.
I like things like the simple reaction roll. I am unsure how five orcs react when a patrol of paramilitary bums drop in, I can roll and see what their gut reaction is.
One of my mates had us meet a beholder and rolled reaction. All reactions from a beholder is intense hatred for every other living thing, including other beholders. The reaction roll was only to see if the beholder wanted to blast us to pieces now or later that day.
It's a procedural rules system that creates fun interaction and events.
this a great primer for your channel that explains the philosophy well
Strangely chill vibe.
Great video, very insightful because I can see how influencial CR has on so many tables it can be really awkward when a few people start hamming it up for the sake of it.
I'm so glad you started with that clip. I have been told that it's peak Crit Role, and I just watch everybody wait to play while the DM chews the scenery.
i get your point here but its also a really great scene and im sure that the other people at the table werent like "god shut up and lets roll some dice" because if they were they are the problem not the people RPing the hell out of the game. Everyone was probably having a great time enjoying seeing two idiots yell at each other while pretending to be other idiots.
@@anthonydeperino2046 I actually think it's kind of an eyeroll of a scene as an audience member, though I'm sure they were very immersed. Siobhan Thompson though is an amazing example of actual play immersed acting, particularly in Fantasy High: Sophomore Year or A Crown of Candy.
@@asterianyc oh i love siobhan and i agree with you on that, the cast of D20 are pretty fantastic each in their own way but siobhan and emily take it to the next level in bringing out the emotions.
but to each their own i thought it was pretty cool not like the most engaging or immersive scene but it adds flavor.
@@anthonydeperino2046 I'm sure it was fun to watch, and nothing against their performances, better than I could do. I'm just saying that if my DM did that on the regular I'd be checking my phone, and life's responsibilities would probably have me bowing out after six sessions.
Great video Matt! I hope others will watch this and be inspired to chase the dragon.
Thanks Crispy!
I'd argue that in role playing, you're a combination writer, actor, character and audience member and something a little extra in different amounts.
I do still agree with your primary point about immersion. I also agree about your mechanics point but to a much lesser extent than you State it.
I think the end of the video goes straight to the meat of the issue. Very good. I shared it with my players who are kind of having a hard time understanding exactly the points you are making.
I agree with you through 80% of this but then I think you fumble in your conclusion.
Yes, acting for an audience is not a good method and focusing on getting in the head of your character and viewing things from their perspective is the best way to roleplay. Yes, getting lost in the character is the ideal flow state of roleplay.
No, system mastery is not a part of that. This isn't just a warcry from someone who enjoys the rules lite gamestyle either- it is backed by gameplay experience as well as historical precedent. Most DMs who run for new players will tell you that a great player who has no idea how the system works comes in with amazing roleplaying ideas based on the one thing they do understand - their character in their head. If you read The Elusive Shift by Jon Peterson which tracks the historical evolution of the term role-playing game and how they were conceived at the nascence of D&D you'll see that the biggest adopters of a character-driven roleplay forward game wanted the players to know nothing about the rules, they wanted the players to act in a black box so that they wouldn't be influenced by what is "optimal". This game style is often referred as Kriegsspiel (from a German wargaming history) and was decently influential in the mid 70's.
That does not mean that system mastery is anti-roleplaying. I believe you can understand the system and through that get a much deeper level of verisimilitude to the world- you start off with a Brennan clip so I assume you are familiar with his thoughts on the matter- he is one of if not the best example of how you could do that. I believe based on the points you laid out that understanding the setting and game (not system) that you are playing is far more important than mastering the system. You need to understand the basic building blocks of the world (you are a street rat thief who can use magic to fend off starvation but all magic in this world comes with a heavy cost or you are a sworn brother to a holy order; death is better than dishonor in this world). That gives you the building blocks of how to play your character. Understanding the optimal way to always getting sneak attack or how to maximize a smite doesn't actually help you get more into your character.
System mastery tugs at one of the core elements of the game- the part that traces itself back to war games- with a zero-sum victor while roleplaying traces back to the other part of roleplaying games- the fictive worlds of science-fiction & fantasy that infused the game with narrative first and "victory" as a secondary concern. it is not impossible to hold these two poles in balance but it is disingenuous and ahistorical to act like they aren't dialectics and that pursuing one will net you the other.
I am reading the Elusive Shift right now and while I admire the spirit of Eisen's vow, I think it ultimately is a mistake. We will be talking more about this in our podcast
@@blacklodgegames I will subscribe and look forward to it!
Exactly. This is what i need. Thank you, really
THANK YOU
The best video you guys have made. This is such a relevant issue in modern roleplaying.
This is a really smart insight about immersive stories and how they are told. You guys are great.
Thanks!
As a dude who watches maybe “too much” ttrpg RUclips, this is top tier useful.
I can probably count on one hand the number of TTRPG channels that I actually enjoy. This is definitely one of them. Keep up the awesome work
I don't have anything to type out on this topic, but the approach is wonderful and has me thinking from a perspective I haven't considered. Thanks
Glad it was helpful! Share it with your friends!
Loooove this video. I've been feeling a bit disillusioned with my own experience in RPGs lately, and this video unstuck something for my brain and helped me realize how hungry I was for a less performative and more "greedy" experience. Many thanks.
This is the more interesting piece I've seen on the topic. Chapeau!
This is really helpful for someone who's new to playing ttrpgs and is anxious about acting/performing. I hate performing and this POV is easing that a bit😊
Glad it helps!
Rule of cool as a crutch to not know shit annoys me to no end.
This is the my favorite RP advice. Thank you so much.
Absolutelly 100% agreed.
I play in an ongoing campaing that i play with some friends.
I created a character with a basic "generic" 6 lines background and built his characteristics as the campaing went on, becoming more and more connected with him. We tried to roleplay more than we were used to (we usually play it really gamey).
There was a point that we were unable to stop a tragedy of happening. This heavly impacted my character and he became melancholic and started to undergo into, what i would say, depression.
During the sessions after the event started and i imersed into my character, i noticed that i was feeling sad, very sad in fact.
Some sessions later there was an interaction with another player that was the most intense roleplay i ever had. His character started talking to mine in private and we started to talk about the tragedy. He disagreed with my character about some aspects and a discussion started, it escalated and even a punch was thrown (no dice rolled, only pure roleplay). This interaction was so intense that i broke into tears during the interaction. His character was able to give a light of hope to mine and so my character was able to overcome the mental repercussions of the tragedy. I felt like a heavy weight was removed from my shoulders.
That was the most intesne experience i ever had during all my life playing ttrpgs.
If you have a table that has people you feel safe with and lets you roleplay, do it.
Create a character that you can connect to, understand them, their feelings, and believe that you are them.
You will never forget the experience of becoming them, it really is uncomparable.
It is powerful.
This is the idealized flow state of gaming ive found. A game master needs to rely on consistency with the denizens of the world as well.
The disregarding of irony and cynicism is key, id agree whole hardedly with you guys. They can be effective tools bt only when sparingly employed.
Thank you for the comment on rules light vs crunchy rpgs too.
My first acting teacher gave me a piece of advice for novice actors. Don't act with emotions and dramatic expressions, act with ACTIONS.
When you try to focus on putting on a show, on expressing an emotion you don't feel, you will fail. You're trying to imitate professional actors without their years of training and developed skills. But you don't need those skills to simply choose what to do as a character.
This is arguably more true in RPGs than in theatre, especially since almost all of us in the hobby are shit actors
Nailed it
It is awesome to finally find a channel that gives proper advice. Got my sub and now to remember how I did this stuff as a kid.
Awesome vid gents. RUclips needs more RPG content like this and less bad top 5 videos.
Very interesting video, and a great dissection of the immersive aspect of playing a character. I do think that it's not "absolute" - as in, it's not the only way to play. Approaching the character from an objective perspective, as an author instead of an avatar, is a totally valid mindset. It even builds off the same principle of "pretend to be a wizard", but it produces a different type of behaviour at the table. It might not supply the high of immersion, but that's not necessarily something a player wants.
Still, for those who do; excellent advice.
Edit: speilaing
Thanks! I take issue with importing metaphors from literature because I think it tends to put you on the mindset of setting up pre determined story beats and the nature of role playing games relies on uncertainty and objective judgement of outcomes via dice rolls. Neutral arbitration of actions destroys any chance of fulfilling prophecy and can lead to disappointment if you set those expectations.
My goal is to align expectations with how the system plays and I think the wild nature of the dice end up producing better stories in the end.
@@blacklodgegames Totally agree, which is why my own mindset when playing is specifically that of a "choose your own adventure book" author. Every path is only one of many branching potential futures, constantly updating based on the present. It's still a very outside-character, 3rd person kinda perspective; but with the flexibility to let the dice fall where they may.
Although that being said, I do also really enjoy those moments where the ludo-narrative aligns, and immersion peaks. It's just a rare occurrence for me in particular.
Quite simply, play pretend! Remember when you were a child, running around as a character in a make-believe world? Yeah, do that!
Usually i find myself not enjoying a ton of d&d youtube videos (out of my own pickiness, not bc i find the topic itself bad), and this video knocked it out of the park.
The way in which memes and jokes are edited in is tasteful, and got a few good laughs out of me. The person speaking has a voice i enjoy as well, and it feels as if im being talked to by a friend rather than being condescended. I'll definitely be recommending this video among any new friends added to my sessions. 10/10
I needed this wake up call! Thank you!
Interesting points. A lot going both with and against deeply held beliefs on my part. Glad the algorithm shoved this into my face
This is great and really true. I feel like I just had a great session the other day because of this very thing. ❤
This is the most well said I have ever seen someone say it, well done 🙏
Thank you!
Great video. May the algorithm grant you a million views
I really love this tipp. It´s all about having an authentic experience using the tools and skills you have. When I think about my best role playing moments as a DM and as a player, it´s always the ones in which I fully trusted myself and didn´t overthink.
I have been waiting for someone to make this point about voice acting and roleplaying for so long, I've actually thought about making a youtube video JUST to make this point myself. To me, learning to voice act well is about equivalent to learning to sing or play the guitar in order to better portray a bard, an interesting and constructive complete waste of your time.
I do quibble with your definition that there is no audience in a TTRPG. I think the reason that it's difficult to do solo or 1 on 1 RPG sessions is that in a game session there is a continuous shifting of roles as characters go from actor to audience to actor again. When you start to strain, when you don't know what your character would say, you can step back and someone else can take over. When you cannot sit back and take in a story that should go another way you can step forward and take the reigns again. The periods where each player is an audience member to the others is important to how we stay accountable. A method actor in an empty room, with no cameras rolling is a bit of a psycho, and by definition, anything he does is what his character would do, and so it's an ouroboros .returning whatever the actor puts in, unmodified. An audience gasps in shock when the actor does something shocking, and that gasp is what gives the actor doing it meaning, or actors would be chasing that dragon in every basement pretending at all times to be Stanley Kowalski until they die of thirst. It's the combination of inhabiting the character AND someone looking at you do it that creates the magic.
Very good advice, thank you! And the set you have is amazing, it looks so cool!
I submit this for the algorithm… and to say Thank You for the content.
So many incredible tips and one-liners in this video alone. Honestly, these go beyond TTRPGs and acting, and touch on matters of self-expression and letting of other people's judgment. Great video!
Also, and I really mean this as constructive criticism, maybe try a smaller prompter to read the script? There were a few moments where I could notice your eyes off the camera, and it might just be because of the text length on screen. But the message greatly outweighs these details. Subscribed :)
Thanks, we can adjust the text width in the prompter, will consider that