Yeah, I’d like to see them being more non-directional too. That said, I’ve been having some luck driving those tiny flash globe transformers with a push-pull driver resonantly with the EL wire on the other end. Still needs a boost converter, and don’t forget the inductor. You can’t treat the primary of a transformer like an inductor if you’re doing a resonant converter, it needs a series inductor at the least. Also getting it resonant with the secondary side isn’t trivial.
What if we braid it, so that the bright parts and the dim parts average out, the multiple strands adding stability and a bit more durability, and then run it down the inside of some flexable tube? A faberic tube maybe? So it can stitched into costumes? An occasional loop of thread through the braid to secure it into the tube made around it?
I love EL Wire. I've never gotten any of the EL "Strips" (non-omni directional like the wire), or the EL "Panels" though, but those also are equally alluring as the Wire variant. I always like EL much more than the CCL that everyone used in early computer modding, or car modding for that matter. I had bought some red EL Wire for a computer once, and some years later ended up owning a 1991 Red Firebird... That EL wire fit PERFECTLY when pressed into the seams in the dash/center console, around the radio and shifter. Which, with the 12V Booster box for PC use, worked just as happily while being fed with the "12V" (14.4V) automotive electrical. Unfortunately, my 1993 Firebird's dash is a bit different, and I'm not able to do the same trick :( Further shame, that the Red LED here is basically useless in terms of illumination... but the other colors are vibrant enough that I want to buy some......... I just don't know what I"d use it for! Although if I were a smart enough person (like Clive) I would probably make some a phone case with a device like those Cell Stickers, but have this work off some sort of IC with its own small LiPo, that something-somehow-detects-calls and then gives a cool neon-glow with those LEDs inlaid into the case.
@@DUKE_of_RAMBLE EL wire sucks for one reason. The very limited lifetime. Great at beginning, but reducing in brightness very fast. I integrated one in a computer case ... once ... back when cases just getting illuminated with cold cathode tubes. By the time I was satisfied where and how the EL was going (with occasional light tests) and had the right method to attach it (hint: tiny dabs of hot glue are NOT the way to go) it was so dim even in a complete dark room it was barely visible. You basically have to throw them out every other week.
@@jaro6985 spot on. I'd never heard of that. I've experienced tombstoning before though. Turns out 'billboarding' is down to faulty placement or oversize pads. You learn something new every day!
I've been playing with these for a while after seeing the tested video too. I've found that a pair of them in series run really well from a usb without need to current limit (as they are under volted). Makes them really easy and good for simple costume work.
Silicone based "personal lubricants" will soften and act like a solvent to silicone. Coating the wires in it would probably have been enough to turn the coating to jelly and allow you to easily strip it off.
Every time I want reliable information on something in a project, you somehow have a recent video on either the exact topics, or one similar enough you manage to answer my questions or teach me something I didnt know that lets me explore what i didnt understand in a new way. One of the best people out there in my opinion Clive, thanks for all your hard work, and your constant mentoring of the community
I just found what project I'm going to use toteach my godson and his sister how to solder. Who knows what we will end up making but these flexible LED strips are what we will use to do so. They both are hardcore about learning how to solder so it should go well. I might propose some ideas but I want them to help design their own creation. The learning how to plan to achieve their goal is the important part. Thank you Clive from the bottom of my heart for posting these.
The best thing that taught me to solder half decently was quite ironic really. Desoldering ICs and caps from old boards. Every single component I removed I was better at it, and the skills translated quite well to soldering.
i made some neon sign for some people before with the neon led strips. and my main issue back then was that i couldnt get it any smaller. this however is CONCIDERABLY smaller. so i might revisit that project
The pick and place machines use tiny little tubes that pull a vacuum and the part sticks to it. Then it goes to a certain X/Y coordinate, pushes it into the paste, then releases the vacuum. On occasion, the vacuum might not release fast enough, or the part might stick to the tube, or whatever, and the part won't stick flush. We called it tombstoning when they'd successfully solder flipped up. It was then that I learned that high frequency RF circuits are sensitive to their inductors flipping up - they'll "work" but at a slightly different frequency.
Those are the coolest looking LED lights I've ever seen. I can imagine artists using those. The uses could vary. Things like a for a progressive rock album cover, making illuminated noodles in a bowl, or even spinning strands of those and photographing it. Even a miniature Christmas tree would look cool with that. Cheers!
Bought some of these now, great find! I was looking for something like this for a while now for my water fountain illumination project - ruled EL wire out due to the high voltage.
If this had been available in the 80s, every kid with a BMX would have hoped someone sold a kit to put this around their spokes! More fun than a lollipop stick jammed onto the brake caliper to make a noise :D
EL wire is a more afforable and durable ( more importantly, stiffer- not as soft as these so it's more lightsaber-y) than these, i would imagine if you had larger models these would be preferable.
@@_waymin I think EL wire is great, I've played with some years ago and I have a USB cable with 3 strands embedded in the center of the wire wrapped into a spiral, so when it's being used it lights up the 3 strands in sequence to make it look like energy flowing into the device, the speed of how quick the light 'moves' along the cable depends on the current draw of the USB device. Unfortunately EL paper/wire can wear out over time, that USB cable is very dim now, and EL can't compete with LEDs for brightness & life longevity, so it's really good to see these LED strings.
I bought some of these a few months back and figured out why the light is uneven at the ends. The idea that feeding the strip from both ends like this will make the light perfectly even is a fallacy, it will drop the unevenness to about a quarter of what you get if feeding from one end but the light will still be lowest the furthest from the ends. Try drawing up a schematic of the strip with the conductors as resistors and you will see that the voltage drop between LEDs is greatest at the end where one polarity has a very high current (the number of LEDs times the average LED current) and one has a very low current (one conductor will only see the current from one LED at the end of the strip).
The problem could be solved by equalizing the current per unit of cross-sectional area of bus rail conductor material. Each bus rail needs to be tapered; N-times as wide at it's solder tab end as it is at it's remote end, where N = the number of LEDs per section.
@@haroldsmith45302 Good thinking. It would be interesting to see if it's viable to make one end thick enough while maintaining minimum conductor size on the other end or if the strip becomes unreasonably wide.
@@haroldsmith45302 You're right about the tapering. The current diminishes as you go down the string to the last LED. Try simming with LTSpice or your fav spice and parameterize the resistors with an eqn. That's all I got.
I saw Norm from Tested use these in a project and got some to make a Halloween mask for my nephew last year. They work great but the end connectors can be VERY fragile and sometimes the copper tabs flake off. I reinforced the ends with a layer of clear tape then some careful use of hot glue. The ones I bought could be trimmed to size but I designed the mask so I wouldn't have to. Cutting and exposing the contacts on the cut end was a nightmare in my test piece. They ran great on a battery pack all night, the kid loved it.
@@ThePiprian There is so much of it I don't think a direct link will be useful. It's commonly called "EL wire" though and most of it is technically trimmable. Mine had small black lines on the underside where it could be safely cut and still work. They all seem to be pretty similar in my experience so don't over pay. Also check out the Tested video for tips on working with it. It'll save you a lot of frustration.
The LEDs at each end of the strings being brighter is due to voltage drop on the PCB making the center LEDs dimmer. Every LED sees the same overall trace length but the average current over the traces is higher for the center LEDs (100LEDs of current rising to 200LEDs, in either direction) therefore they suffer higher voltage drop, compared the the LEDs on the ends (1 LED current near them, rising to 200LEDs current at the far end). The current is probably quite unbalanced to make a visual difference like that - I wouldn't be surprised if the center LEDs are drawing half the current compared to the ones at the ends. Problem can be solved by dividing the string into multiple parallel connected shorter strings with dedicated traces but of course that requires more than 2 traces.
@@warpeggioslab or taper the traces so that the resistance is lowered where current is highest but increased where it's lowest. The current to the middle LEDs would flow through the thickest parts of the traces on both sides. The current to LEDs at the end would flow through a short thick section on one side and long thin section on the other.
It could also be due to the light reflecting at the ends in the silicone covering, since it appears that some of the light is diffused through the covering material and therefore would act somewhat like a fiber optic string
You've done it again Clive. Another brilliant and informative video. I'm sure that many of us have been wondering about these LEDs. You didn't say though if they are resistant to being stretched. Perhaps you could add a note about that.
I remember electro strip flexible rope lighting ,they were 1/2 inch diameter and used tungsten lamps ,now they are LED and down to 1mm diameter .So many uses for them
I had about 600' of green tungsten rope lights in my Xmas decorations one year. Won second place, but used over $1000 in extra electricity. My front yard drew 34 amps at 120v!
Dude just found ur page, LOVE how well u break stuff down and talk it alllllllll out! So helpful and bc this video and one on wireless leds I’m gonna try my first project!!!!
@@bigclivedotcom It would be interesting to know, what feeding system is used for the pick and place machine (bulk, tape, tray, ...?). My suspicion is, that the LEDs are already rotated when they are placed. At least this is a manufacturing quality issue. That's China quality and they can still export the bad items to foreign countries.
Ooh I think I've found want I was looking for, I've had EL wire for projects but they tend to be quite dim in any other setting but total darkness, ideal for Halloween costumes I suppose where you're likely to be in a dark setting. But these seem way brighter and more suited to most light settings. Thanks Clive for bringing these to my attention, I shall go hunting for them.
Not sure if its a universal term, but when I used to work on reflow ovens we called that phenomena of chips rising on their side tombstoning. its common to happen during solder wetting if the flipchip alignment is off
There is a product available here to soften and clean up silicone sealant/adhesive. It is sold in the plumbing section of hardware/home improvement stored, and used to clean off old silicone sealant that was used to seal around shower stalls and such when renovating. Perhaps it might soften the silicone in these filaments.
I saw some of these on a costume in a Sci-Fi show. Thought those are cool, wonder how they did it or what they are. Now I know, very awesome, gonna find some myself.
@@ThePiprian 😭😭😭 I didn’t need to know this. Now I have no excuse to not strip out my car EL wire and replace it with these… at least it’ll make good video content 😂
The illumination on these look great. But something makes me think running it around the skirting board in my living room might be a bit costly. Whilst I'm wishing, can I get 2812 addressable LED versions instead. a run of 20 meters for less than £30 would be great !
The strips being dimmer in the middle could be total internal reflection causing them to act similarly to a glass fiber. To check this you can try to bend the strip and see if it gets brighter on that spot.
If they come up with a way to create flexible LED filaments that still work after cutting, they will be the best thing so far for any kind of DIY costume/diorama build!
The other problem with el wire is that it is nowhere near as flexible. I love the consistent light output of el, and you can get it in pretty much any length you want it, but there are pros and cons to each of these...
@LabRat Knatz Huh. Guess there was a big shift in quality in the drivers. I was using the stuff, cut into shorter lengths and joined with wire, inside computer cases as displays. One of the specials I did even had it glued to the ram heatsinks and used some hardware to make an audio VU meter out of it. Needless to say, there was no audio noise and system stability hadn't been compromised.
The Fact that the inner section of the filaments are dimmer than the outside made me curios and so I fired up LTSpice and put something together. And despite the fact that each led has the same length of track on the circuit board and also the same resistance in series, they get different currents. Lower in the middle and higher on the ends. This makes no sense if I think about it, but Spice says so
The dimness in the middle makes sense if you think about voltage drop in each wire segment. The first wire segment in the bus has the current from all 200 LEDs and the last one has only the current from one LED, and therefore only one 200th the voltage drop. If the LEDs all draw the same current then the graph of voltage drop would be a half-parabola, and with two opposing half-parabolas (flipped in both x and y) the middles are clearly closer together than the ends, indicating more voltage available to the end LEDs. The effect should be tiny, but LEDs are very voltage sensitive so it becomes visible.
The red ones I received are fairly bright and evenly lit, I don't think any have the brighter ends like yours do. They are very fragile though, I had one break in the center somewhere and is now intermittent, if using for an everyday items, I'd add some additional protection.
They are dimmer in the middle because the bus resistance isn't dividing the voltage evenly - the bus isn't at constant current, the current is proportional to the number of LEDS that come after it. At the input, you get the full current for the entire strip, but the end section of the bus only carries a single LED's worth of current. This means the voltage drop is biggest on the side where the bus comes in.
can't wait till we get some of these with individually addressable leds :D would of course require an extra connection point in each end of the filament, but that's okay.
I bought a 3-pack of those soldering tips from Ebay for just under $12. I am a vaper so I have lots of vaping stuff. The ad said 1.5 ohms and 15 watts. The readings I get are roughly 2.3 ohms and I use about 20 watts. I really didn't expect them to work well but I was surprised that they do. It's nice to have a small portable soldering iron.
Shouldn't the power be lower if you use the same power source but a higher resistance? So if the 1.5ohm is giving you 15W, shouldn't 2.3ohm give you around 10W?
@@dimitrijekrstic7567This is a variable wattage mod. Increasing the watts also increases the voltage. At 20 W the voltage is around 6.25 volts. At 15 W the voltage is around 5 volts. It gets hotter quicker at 20 W. These devices usually have a 10 second cutoff so it helps to get the tip hot quickly.
If you need a shorter length. You can cut it to size then burn one end. If you are careful you can expose the conductors. Some projects require a fixed length because I have no place to hide the surplus. They are really wiggly and hard to manage. No glue will stick to it as well.
interesting leds indeed. i have some vintage styled bulbs with that amber type of those in use. one of the glass shells broke on one and i dont even know what happened but it was interesting seeing how soft and flexible that stuff is. i just put on liquid electrical type on the exposed parts and just continued to use it as nothing wrong with it other than the glass bulb gone now.
Solvents will swell the silicone, and eventually turn it to a jelly-like mess, but to break the cross-links and actually dissolve it away is a very different process. Acetone + ispopropyl alcohol, with a splash of ammonia, might do the trick. The LEDs at the ends glow brighter because that's where the voltage drop is greatest. (Imagine pipes laid out in a ladder pattern: the flow through the middle rungs would be lower than at the ends.)
yes the sellers DON'T WANT to understand. I found the soldering tipps too, and the prices are so different in Ali. Second time I order from the same seller, because these soldering tipps are really a handy thing, they were out of stock and I had to fight to get my money back...
3:44 I wonder why that is the case. Maybe the pads that hold the LEDs in the middle are slightly thinner? Like there is some stretching happening before they're coated in silicone?
Can you please try to make either a necklace or bracelet with these? It could use something like a cr2032 battery in a little case to act as both the power source, and clasp to hold the ends together.
I may have to get some of the string type, they look very interesting and I'm quite curious to see what they look like in person since it's so difficult to video/photograph light sources like that and have them look like they do with your naked eyes.
I'm happy and relieved to see you back home and free of that awful thing. Sorry if you've already answered but can the lengths be cut? Many thanks if you can answer.
@@bigclivedotcom Thank you so much for answering, I know you are very busy, I have found the different lengths, On a separate note I am very happy to see you back fit and healthy and I hope their are no lingering affects. Take care 👍
the reason they're probably brighter on the ends and not in the center. might be the fact that they are trying to mimic actual neon, and actual neon it's always going to be brighter on the outer ends due to the fact that that's where the voltage is coming from.. just a thought
Try gasoline, I know that automotive silicone compounds can't take it. Also, silicone oil (polysiloxane) will slowly soak in to silicone rubber over time. Both eventually turn it into a bloated jelly mass.
Lengthy comment incoming! This reminds me - again - of a strip of 12V RGB LED tape which i found once that's been floating about in my "misc. lighting stuff" box since. I would like to put it into my computer cabinet 😃. Has 4 solder pads, cuttable by ~15cm/6in. segments. Plus goes in, through the LEDs, and comes out as three lines you're supposed to switch/modulate etc. There's a tiny box with it. It has a barrel jack for 12VDC supply, one cable (4 in./11cm) with an IR receiver("CHQB") and another cable for connection to the tape. Just says "LED RGB controller" on the plastic box, and "made from Chineesium". Inside - all in SMT - is: a 24c02 IC (isn't that an I²C serial EEPROM? Light pattern bitpool?) and a blank eight-legged bug labelled "MCU" on the board. Some caps&resistors. Two glass pipes between the "plus" and the MCU (one diode and one Zener). Three A2SHB switching transistors, each connected to the MCU per a 10k resistor. Thing is using PWM, i assume? I don't have that IR remote control, but I would like to make a "powered by DIY and Arduino" type gadget to remote-control that box. Does anyone - maybe even Clive? - have a code list or Arduino sketch with the #DEFINEs for what to send to those gadgets? I assume they are relatively similar in codes assigned to the functions? Sorry, i know this video's comment thread here is not the most appropriate place to ask such questions. 😃 If gathering the IR codes involved is too much of a hassle, I'd scrap that control box and make my own dimmer box. Re-watching your "555 timer RGB dimmer" video right now for inspiration in another tab. 😂
I've never tried it myself but if you are looking to dissolve silicone you could try heating with a strong base (Sodium hydroxide), and maybe an organic solvent like THF to get ride of any organic polymer/plastic.
Could the uneven light be the thermal tempco causing the ones at the end to 'with fewer neighbors' to be cooler/brighter at the same current? (total spitball)...Because of the silicone insulation and hair thin traces there would be very little heat movement along the length so once a temp gradient sets in it feeds back on itself like many old school led parallel projects without resistors.
Seller being dicks: could very much be an automated algorithm: "We have 100 stock, first 20 regular price no discount to cover the cost of the manufacturing run, next 70 are cheaper 'on sale' price, 10 remaining stock 200% price to slow demand until a new batch can be brought in. A rush of purchases just moves the price along.
Could it be that there is a double bus wire somwhere connecting at both ends, which makes both ends see a 3-0=3V voltage, while the LED's in the middle have a slight voltage drop meaning they e.g operate at 2.9-0.1=2.8V?
The dimness in the middle makes sense if you think about voltage drop in each wire segment. The first wire segment in the bus has the current from all 200 LEDs and the last one has only the current from one LED, and therefore only one 200th the voltage drop. If the LEDs all draw the same current then the graph of voltage drop would be a half-parabola, and with two opposing half-parabolas (flipped in both x and y) the middles are clearly closer together than the ends, indicating more voltage available to the end LEDs. The effect should be tiny, but LEDs are very voltage sensitive so it becomes visible.
Shipping packaging from China is normally good, but it depends if you buy large stuff or small stuff, and depends if they are generous with the packaging or not. IN our experience is normally pretty good. Btw, I would love to see those filaments in some of your projects.
..."flips up like that." What we used to call 'tombstoning', although we (worked designing PC motherboards at Intel) never had the luck with passives where they would flip along an edge... it was always up on end... like a tombstone. Which, of course, left us with a lack of connection through the device. :( Like the old saying goes, "I don't get to drive the train. I don't get to blow the whistle. I don't even get to ring the bell, but let the damn thing jump the track and guess who catches hell..." :)
i think the off/tipped leds happens when the circuit board is conveying. Either the tension gets to high, or low, as the led chips are being placed on the circuit board, or during soldering. which could cause them to tip over. I really like these filaments, but they are delicate. Im holding out for the 5 mm version. =P
I got myself a canister of silicone remover. When you let stuff soak in it, the silicone becomes swollen and softer and separates from the surface that it's cast onto. Maybe that would work for you too.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
This is what I dreamed EL Wire could be. If they could make these as long and durable as EL Wire while keeping the benefit of LEDs, it'd be amazing!
Yeah, I’d like to see them being more non-directional too.
That said, I’ve been having some luck driving those tiny flash globe transformers with a push-pull driver resonantly with the EL wire on the other end. Still needs a boost converter, and don’t forget the inductor. You can’t treat the primary of a transformer like an inductor if you’re doing a resonant converter, it needs a series inductor at the least. Also getting it resonant with the secondary side isn’t trivial.
What if we braid it, so that the bright parts and the dim parts average out, the multiple strands adding stability and a bit more durability, and then run it down the inside of some flexable tube? A faberic tube maybe? So it can stitched into costumes? An occasional loop of thread through the braid to secure it into the tube made around it?
Laser Wire. But are expensive, very expensive.
I love EL Wire. I've never gotten any of the EL "Strips" (non-omni directional like the wire), or the EL "Panels" though, but those also are equally alluring as the Wire variant. I always like EL much more than the CCL that everyone used in early computer modding, or car modding for that matter.
I had bought some red EL Wire for a computer once, and some years later ended up owning a 1991 Red Firebird... That EL wire fit PERFECTLY when pressed into the seams in the dash/center console, around the radio and shifter. Which, with the 12V Booster box for PC use, worked just as happily while being fed with the "12V" (14.4V) automotive electrical.
Unfortunately, my 1993 Firebird's dash is a bit different, and I'm not able to do the same trick :( Further shame, that the Red LED here is basically useless in terms of illumination... but the other colors are vibrant enough that I want to buy some......... I just don't know what I"d use it for!
Although if I were a smart enough person (like Clive) I would probably make some a phone case with a device like those Cell Stickers, but have this work off some sort of IC with its own small LiPo, that something-somehow-detects-calls and then gives a cool neon-glow with those LEDs inlaid into the case.
@@DUKE_of_RAMBLE EL wire sucks for one reason. The very limited lifetime. Great at beginning, but reducing in brightness very fast.
I integrated one in a computer case ... once ... back when cases just getting illuminated with cold cathode tubes. By the time I was satisfied where and how the EL was going (with occasional light tests) and had the right method to attach it (hint: tiny dabs of hot glue are NOT the way to go) it was so dim even in a complete dark room it was barely visible.
You basically have to throw them out every other week.
SMD parts flipping up during reflow is called 'tombstoning' and it happens to small resistors or caps sometimes too.
Tombstoning is when one side lifts up and disconnects, apparently in this case it would be called "billboarding" which is more rare.
@@jaro6985 spot on. I'd never heard of that. I've experienced tombstoning before though. Turns out 'billboarding' is down to faulty placement or oversize pads. You learn something new every day!
I've been playing with these for a while after seeing the tested video too. I've found that a pair of them in series run really well from a usb without need to current limit (as they are under volted). Makes them really easy and good for simple costume work.
How to wire 4 of these to be in series: + - + - + -+ - ?
@@dcentral yes
Silicone based "personal lubricants" will soften and act like a solvent to silicone. Coating the wires in it would probably have been enough to turn the coating to jelly and allow you to easily strip it off.
Possibly also dichloromethane would work.
There are bottles of silicone stripper sold for removing silicone caulking around bathtubs.
@@JimService but the lubricant can be used for fun later 😉
@@anzer789 Just not the same lubricant used for dissolving the coating :D
Just be sure to take the nookie pills first
Every time I want reliable information on something in a project, you somehow have a recent video on either the exact topics, or one similar enough you manage to answer my questions or teach me something I didnt know that lets me explore what i didnt understand in a new way. One of the best people out there in my opinion Clive, thanks for all your hard work, and your constant mentoring of the community
I just found what project I'm going to use toteach my godson and his sister how to solder. Who knows what we will end up making but these flexible LED strips are what we will use to do so. They both are hardcore about learning how to solder so it should go well. I might propose some ideas but I want them to help design their own creation. The learning how to plan to achieve their goal is the important part. Thank you Clive from the bottom of my heart for posting these.
The best thing that taught me to solder half decently was quite ironic really. Desoldering ICs and caps from old boards. Every single component I removed I was better at it, and the skills translated quite well to soldering.
i made some neon sign for some people before with the neon led strips.
and my main issue back then was that i couldnt get it any smaller. this however is CONCIDERABLY smaller.
so i might revisit that project
The pick and place machines use tiny little tubes that pull a vacuum and the part sticks to it. Then it goes to a certain X/Y coordinate, pushes it into the paste, then releases the vacuum.
On occasion, the vacuum might not release fast enough, or the part might stick to the tube, or whatever, and the part won't stick flush. We called it tombstoning when they'd successfully solder flipped up. It was then that I learned that high frequency RF circuits are sensitive to their inductors flipping up - they'll "work" but at a slightly different frequency.
SMT machine
Coffee machine
Tea Machine
Milk machine ... wait - that's a cow :-/
@@jayherde0 or my mother
Wow!! It looks like colored wires that light up!
These look like they would be a lot of fun to experiment with!
Like electroluminescent wire, but much easier to work with as it is low voltage and more flexible.
@@zh84 And as long as you don't over-drive them, they'll probably last longer than EL wire.
Those are the coolest looking LED lights I've ever seen. I can imagine artists using those. The uses could vary. Things like a for a progressive rock album cover, making illuminated noodles in a bowl, or even spinning strands of those and photographing it. Even a miniature Christmas tree would look cool with that. Cheers!
when you look them up on the internet and example is using them as shoe laces
I bought these to have laser beams between model spacecraft :)
Bought some of these now, great find! I was looking for something like this for a while now for my water fountain illumination project - ruled EL wire out due to the high voltage.
If this had been available in the 80s, every kid with a BMX would have hoped someone sold a kit to put this around their spokes!
More fun than a lollipop stick jammed onto the brake caliper to make a noise :D
Those filaments would make incredible light saber effects on miniatures.
EL wire is a more afforable and durable ( more importantly, stiffer- not as soft as these so it's more lightsaber-y) than these, i would imagine if you had larger models these would be preferable.
@@_waymin yeah, but you can't just cut el wire.
@@GadgetBoy yeah you can, that's the whole point
@@GadgetBoy there are actually sheets of it designed to be cut into shapes
@@_waymin I think EL wire is great, I've played with some years ago and I have a USB cable with 3 strands embedded in the center of the wire wrapped into a spiral, so when it's being used it lights up the 3 strands in sequence to make it look like energy flowing into the device, the speed of how quick the light 'moves' along the cable depends on the current draw of the USB device.
Unfortunately EL paper/wire can wear out over time, that USB cable is very dim now, and EL can't compete with LEDs for brightness & life longevity, so it's really good to see these LED strings.
I didn't know these existed. They are coolest thing I've seen in ages!
I bought some of these a few months back and figured out why the light is uneven at the ends. The idea that feeding the strip from both ends like this will make the light perfectly even is a fallacy, it will drop the unevenness to about a quarter of what you get if feeding from one end but the light will still be lowest the furthest from the ends.
Try drawing up a schematic of the strip with the conductors as resistors and you will see that the voltage drop between LEDs is greatest at the end where one polarity has a very high current (the number of LEDs times the average LED current) and one has a very low current (one conductor will only see the current from one LED at the end of the strip).
The problem could be solved by equalizing the current per unit of cross-sectional area of bus rail conductor material. Each bus rail needs to be tapered; N-times as wide at it's solder tab end as it is at it's remote end, where N = the number of LEDs per section.
@@haroldsmith45302 Good thinking. It would be interesting to see if it's viable to make one end thick enough while maintaining minimum conductor size on the other end or if the strip becomes unreasonably wide.
@@haroldsmith45302 You're right about the tapering. The current diminishes as you go down the string to the last LED. Try simming with LTSpice or your fav spice and parameterize the resistors with an eqn. That's all I got.
Aliexpress knows when I've been watching your show.
Didn't know these existed, really interesting things I really want to buy some now...
What a lovely look, I can think of tons of small model projects I wish I had these for years ago.
Now THAT is a brillant idea! Lots of ODE such as anne-ODE and cath-ODE.
I saw Norm from Tested use these in a project and got some to make a Halloween mask for my nephew last year. They work great but the end connectors can be VERY fragile and sometimes the copper tabs flake off. I reinforced the ends with a layer of clear tape then some careful use of hot glue. The ones I bought could be trimmed to size but I designed the mask so I wouldn't have to. Cutting and exposing the contacts on the cut end was a nightmare in my test piece. They ran great on a battery pack all night, the kid loved it.
Do you have a link to the trimmable ones?
@@ThePiprian There is so much of it I don't think a direct link will be useful. It's commonly called "EL wire" though and most of it is technically trimmable. Mine had small black lines on the underside where it could be safely cut and still work. They all seem to be pretty similar in my experience so don't over pay. Also check out the Tested video for tips on working with it. It'll save you a lot of frustration.
@@Alakazzam09 Thanks for the answer! I thought el wire was a different technology that uses a lot more energy than LEDs?
@@ThePiprian Yep, very different. Uses AC voltage for starters so requires special power supply.
The LEDs at each end of the strings being brighter is due to voltage drop on the PCB making the center LEDs dimmer. Every LED sees the same overall trace length but the average current over the traces is higher for the center LEDs (100LEDs of current rising to 200LEDs, in either direction) therefore they suffer higher voltage drop, compared the the LEDs on the ends (1 LED current near them, rising to 200LEDs current at the far end). The current is probably quite unbalanced to make a visual difference like that - I wouldn't be surprised if the center LEDs are drawing half the current compared to the ones at the ends. Problem can be solved by dividing the string into multiple parallel connected shorter strings with dedicated traces but of course that requires more than 2 traces.
Would it help if the supply traces were thicker?
@@warpeggioslab or taper the traces so that the resistance is lowered where current is highest but increased where it's lowest. The current to the middle LEDs would flow through the thickest parts of the traces on both sides. The current to LEDs at the end would flow through a short thick section on one side and long thin section on the other.
It could also be due to the light reflecting at the ends in the silicone covering, since it appears that some of the light is diffused through the covering material and therefore would act somewhat like a fiber optic string
@@warpeggioslab yes. But in theory you need an infinitely wide trace to have completely even current distribution.
You've done it again Clive. Another brilliant and informative video. I'm sure that many of us have been wondering about these LEDs. You didn't say though if they are resistant to being stretched. Perhaps you could add a note about that.
Stretching them will break the strip.
@@bigclivedotcom Ah, I thought as much. Thanks for the extra information Clive. Keep the vids coming, you're a great presenter!
that looks really cool! I've never seen these before, and now I shall buy some for some fun creative experimenting! Thanks Clive~!
Man, those LED filaments are so pretty.
Damn, they look so cool! No wonder a lot of us your viewers will inevitably go out for shopping in search for them.
I ordered some of those last week haha. They're awesome.
These are cool! I can see some interesting costume and prop possibilities! They seem (on video as least) much brighter than EL wire. Very cool find!
I remember electro strip flexible rope lighting ,they were 1/2 inch diameter and used tungsten lamps ,now they are LED and down to 1mm diameter .So many uses for them
I had about 600' of green tungsten rope lights in my Xmas decorations one year. Won second place, but used over $1000 in extra electricity. My front yard drew 34 amps at 120v!
Wonderful stuff, I want some... but can't think what I would do with it!
You are not alone in this river. ;D
Nifty ! If only Edison could see how lighting has evolved.
Very interesting, loads of LEDs inside!
Darn, I just disposed of our Christmas tree. 🎄 Many thanks, plenty of time for Christmas 2022, and I know now how they work !
The ability to be able to pixel map these would open up an entirely new world. This is incredible! 😉🤔
min 8:30 till 8:40 it's just gold. Thank you for the video
Dude just found ur page, LOVE how well u break stuff down and talk it alllllllll out! So helpful and bc this video and one on wireless leds I’m gonna try my first project!!!!
Those are some very pretty glow noodles. Truly do look like tiny neon tubes.
They call it tombstoning when SMDs flip up when the solder paste is flowed. That's liquid surface tension working against you.
Yeah, it's odd that it did it sideways though. It might even be a sticky pick 'n' place machine that did it.
@@bigclivedotcom It would be interesting to know, what feeding system is used for the pick and place machine (bulk, tape, tray, ...?). My suspicion is, that the LEDs are already rotated when they are placed. At least this is a manufacturing quality issue. That's China quality and they can still export the bad items to foreign countries.
Very neat lights...I can see a bunch of different ways to use these all over the place :)
These look insanely cool!
I didn't even know this stuff existed, and now I want a box full. Can't think of any use for it, but still want it 😁
Ooh I think I've found want I was looking for, I've had EL wire for projects but they tend to be quite dim in any other setting but total darkness, ideal for Halloween costumes I suppose where you're likely to be in a dark setting. But these seem way brighter and more suited to most light settings. Thanks Clive for bringing these to my attention, I shall go hunting for them.
Not sure if its a universal term, but when I used to work on reflow ovens we called that phenomena of chips rising on their side tombstoning. its common to happen during solder wetting if the flipchip alignment is off
These string lights are soo flexible and useful for birthfays, special dinners etc. I can bend them around corners in tight spaces no problemo i guess
I never see them in shops
There is a product available here to soften and clean up silicone sealant/adhesive. It is sold in the plumbing section of hardware/home improvement stored, and used to clean off old silicone sealant that was used to seal around shower stalls and such when renovating.
Perhaps it might soften the silicone in these filaments.
Bought it once, pretty sure it's just kerosene in gel form.
@@greentjmtl Must be a different product. IIRC the stuff I had seemed to be water-based and had no kerosene smell at all
there are various silicone digesters and other solvents which work on silicones
I saw some of these on a costume in a Sci-Fi show. Thought those are cool, wonder how they did it or what they are. Now I know, very awesome, gonna find some myself.
I was curious as to why they had such short lengths… then I realised it’s meant for those “filament” type light bulbs.
There are versions of these on aliexpress up to 5 meters long. Not sure how well those work though.
@@ThePiprian 😭😭😭 I didn’t need to know this. Now I have no excuse to not strip out my car EL wire and replace it with these… at least it’ll make good video content 😂
The illumination on these look great. But something makes me think running it around the skirting board in my living room might be a bit costly.
Whilst I'm wishing, can I get 2812 addressable LED versions instead. a run of 20 meters for less than £30 would be great !
The strips being dimmer in the middle could be total internal reflection causing them to act similarly to a glass fiber. To check this you can try to bend the strip and see if it gets brighter on that spot.
They are cool Clive but I think I will wait for the newer ones so thanks for the heads up
I'm only slightly disappointed this video isn't called "how loooong LED filaments are made" because that's definitely how I read it. :)
Interesting Video Clive .. Not seen long LED filaments before .. thank you for posting .. 👍
If they come up with a way to create flexible LED filaments that still work after cutting, they will be the best thing so far for any kind of DIY costume/diorama build!
LED neon can be cut every 25mm (1"), but is bulkier.
I wonder if the silicone is acting as an optical fiber causing light to travel to the ends making them brighter
I remember using the flexible neon wire that looked the same, though it required a little high-frequency driver.
Electroluminescent wire is common on eBay. But very dim compared to this.
The other problem with el wire is that it is nowhere near as flexible. I love the consistent light output of el, and you can get it in pretty much any length you want it, but there are pros and cons to each of these...
@LabRat Knatz Huh. Guess there was a big shift in quality in the drivers. I was using the stuff, cut into shorter lengths and joined with wire, inside computer cases as displays.
One of the specials I did even had it glued to the ram heatsinks and used some hardware to make an audio VU meter out of it.
Needless to say, there was no audio noise and system stability hadn't been compromised.
The Fact that the inner section of the filaments are dimmer than the outside made me curios and so I fired up LTSpice and put something together. And despite the fact that each led has the same length of track on the circuit board and also the same resistance in series, they get different currents. Lower in the middle and higher on the ends. This makes no sense if I think about it, but Spice says so
The dimness in the middle makes sense if you think about voltage drop in each wire segment. The first wire segment in the bus has the current from all 200 LEDs and the last one has only the current from one LED, and therefore only one 200th the voltage drop. If the LEDs all draw the same current then the graph of voltage drop would be a half-parabola, and with two opposing half-parabolas (flipped in both x and y) the middles are clearly closer together than the ends, indicating more voltage available to the end LEDs. The effect should be tiny, but LEDs are very voltage sensitive so it becomes visible.
I'm not sure your sequence of filming, but you sound well here. That pleases me.
The red ones I received are fairly bright and evenly lit, I don't think any have the brighter ends like yours do. They are very fragile though, I had one break in the center somewhere and is now intermittent, if using for an everyday items, I'd add some additional protection.
They are dimmer in the middle because the bus resistance isn't dividing the voltage evenly - the bus isn't at constant current, the current is proportional to the number of LEDS that come after it. At the input, you get the full current for the entire strip, but the end section of the bus only carries a single LED's worth of current. This means the voltage drop is biggest on the side where the bus comes in.
can't wait till we get some of these with individually addressable leds :D
would of course require an extra connection point in each end of the filament, but that's okay.
I didn’t know this existed, and now I want it!
I bought a 3-pack of those soldering tips from Ebay for just under $12. I am a vaper so I have lots of vaping stuff. The ad said 1.5 ohms and 15 watts. The readings I get are roughly 2.3 ohms and I use about 20 watts. I really didn't expect them to work well but I was surprised that they do. It's nice to have a small portable soldering iron.
Shouldn't the power be lower if you use the same power source but a higher resistance? So if the 1.5ohm is giving you 15W, shouldn't 2.3ohm give you around 10W?
@@dimitrijekrstic7567This is a variable wattage mod. Increasing the watts also increases the voltage. At 20 W the voltage is around 6.25 volts. At 15 W the voltage is around 5 volts. It gets hotter quicker at 20 W. These devices usually have a 10 second cutoff so it helps to get the tip hot quickly.
@@tims8603 very nice! At 6.25V it comes up to about 17W with the 2.3ohm coil which is pretty close!
@@dimitrijekrstic7567 The resistance varies with the temperature of the tip. After using it for awhile, it goes down to about 1.9 ohms.
@@tims8603 hmm. It should only increase when hot
If you need a shorter length. You can cut it to size then burn one end. If you are careful you can expose the conductors. Some projects require a fixed length because I have no place to hide the surplus. They are really wiggly and hard to manage. No glue will stick to it as well.
interesting leds indeed. i have some vintage styled bulbs with that amber type of those in use. one of the glass shells broke on one and i dont even know what happened but it was interesting seeing how soft and flexible that stuff is. i just put on liquid electrical type on the exposed parts and just continued to use it as nothing wrong with it other than the glass bulb gone now.
These have a really cool look.
Solvents will swell the silicone, and eventually turn it to a jelly-like mess, but to break the cross-links and actually dissolve it away is a very different process. Acetone + ispopropyl alcohol, with a splash of ammonia, might do the trick.
The LEDs at the ends glow brighter because that's where the voltage drop is greatest. (Imagine pipes laid out in a ladder pattern: the flow through the middle rungs would be lower than at the ends.)
Those are so coool!!!!! I can think of so many things to do with them
yes the sellers DON'T WANT to understand.
I found the soldering tipps too, and the prices are so different in Ali.
Second time I order from the same seller, because these soldering tipps are really a handy thing, they were out of stock and I had to fight to get my money back...
made a massive 7 segment display with non rejects, worked like a charm
3:44 I wonder why that is the case. Maybe the pads that hold the LEDs in the middle are slightly thinner? Like there is some stretching happening before they're coated in silicone?
True LEDs are born not made... Oh! THOSE LEDs. Blimey! Crossed circuit there. Still recovering from New Year's Day... Solder-ON!
These are really interesting - never seen anything like it
Nice effects tested's neon looks OK. this type of strip could have so many uses I might get a few and play.
Can you please try to make either a necklace or bracelet with these? It could use something like a cr2032 battery in a little case to act as both the power source, and clasp to hold the ends together.
I may have to get some of the string type, they look very interesting and I'm quite curious to see what they look like in person since it's so difficult to video/photograph light sources like that and have them look like they do with your naked eyes.
Would be cool if these were individually addressable!
Tombstoning.... I believe thats the term for when components shift during reflow, with some components even ending upright like a tombstone.
In your next video I expect to see you standing there all lit up with these. Big loop earrings, wrist bangles, head band... I can picture it now.
That's one nagging question, i had, answered! Thank you Clive!
I could light up my RC cars on the shelf. 😀 Glowing cars. Mmmm
I think the ends are brighter as you have higher voltage drop there, because all the current is concentrated in one of the two busbars.
I'm happy and relieved to see you back home and free of that awful thing.
Sorry if you've already answered but can the lengths be cut?
Many thanks if you can answer.
They can't be cut. But you get shorter lengths.
@@bigclivedotcom
Thank you so much for answering, I know you are very busy, I have found the different lengths,
On a separate note I am very happy to see you back fit and healthy and I hope their are no lingering affects.
Take care 👍
They look like those chemical light necklaces you used to get in Blackpool 😊❤️👍
This stuff will be so useful for costumes!
the reason they're probably brighter on the ends and not in the center. might be the fact that they are trying to mimic actual neon, and actual neon it's always going to be brighter on the outer ends due to the fact that that's where the voltage is coming from.. just a thought
Try gasoline, I know that automotive silicone compounds can't take it.
Also, silicone oil (polysiloxane) will slowly soak in to silicone rubber over time. Both eventually turn it into a bloated jelly mass.
The machines use vacuum nozzles, high accuracy cameras and servo systems to place the chips
Never thought blue would be easier than red! Times have reversed!
At them voltages even with that bus bar arangement, there must be a voltage drop for the centres to be dim.
Lengthy comment incoming!
This reminds me - again - of a strip of 12V RGB LED tape which i found once that's been floating about in my "misc. lighting stuff" box since. I would like to put it into my computer cabinet 😃. Has 4 solder pads, cuttable by ~15cm/6in. segments. Plus goes in, through the LEDs, and comes out as three lines you're supposed to switch/modulate etc.
There's a tiny box with it. It has a barrel jack for 12VDC supply, one cable (4 in./11cm) with an IR receiver("CHQB") and another cable for connection to the tape.
Just says "LED RGB controller" on the plastic box, and "made from Chineesium". Inside - all in SMT - is:
a 24c02 IC (isn't that an I²C serial EEPROM? Light pattern bitpool?) and a blank eight-legged bug labelled "MCU" on the board.
Some caps&resistors. Two glass pipes between the "plus" and the MCU (one diode and one Zener).
Three A2SHB switching transistors, each connected to the MCU per a 10k resistor. Thing is using PWM, i assume? I don't have that IR remote control, but I would like to make a "powered by DIY and Arduino" type gadget to remote-control that box.
Does anyone - maybe even Clive? - have a code list or Arduino sketch with the #DEFINEs for what to send to those gadgets? I assume they are relatively similar in codes assigned to the functions?
Sorry, i know this video's comment thread here is not the most appropriate place to ask such questions. 😃
If gathering the IR codes involved is too much of a hassle, I'd scrap that control box and make my own dimmer box. Re-watching your "555 timer RGB dimmer" video right now for inspiration in another tab. 😂
I've never tried it myself but if you are looking to dissolve silicone you could try heating with a strong base (Sodium hydroxide), and maybe an organic solvent like THF to get ride of any organic polymer/plastic.
Could the uneven light be the thermal tempco causing the ones at the end to 'with fewer neighbors' to be cooler/brighter at the same current? (total spitball)...Because of the silicone insulation and hair thin traces there would be very little heat movement along the length so once a temp gradient sets in it feeds back on itself like many old school led parallel projects without resistors.
Seller being dicks: could very much be an automated algorithm: "We have 100 stock, first 20 regular price no discount to cover the cost of the manufacturing run, next 70 are cheaper 'on sale' price, 10 remaining stock 200% price to slow demand until a new batch can be brought in. A rush of purchases just moves the price along.
No it appears instantly, good idea though.
Could it be that there is a double bus wire somwhere connecting at both ends, which makes both ends see a 3-0=3V voltage, while the LED's in the middle have a slight voltage drop meaning they e.g operate at 2.9-0.1=2.8V?
The dimness in the middle makes sense if you think about voltage drop in each wire segment. The first wire segment in the bus has the current from all 200 LEDs and the last one has only the current from one LED, and therefore only one 200th the voltage drop. If the LEDs all draw the same current then the graph of voltage drop would be a half-parabola, and with two opposing half-parabolas (flipped in both x and y) the middles are clearly closer together than the ends, indicating more voltage available to the end LEDs. The effect should be tiny, but LEDs are very voltage sensitive so it becomes visible.
Shipping packaging from China is normally good, but it depends if you buy large stuff or small stuff, and depends if they are generous with the packaging or not.
IN our experience is normally pretty good.
Btw, I would love to see those filaments in some of your projects.
..."flips up like that." What we used to call 'tombstoning', although we (worked designing PC motherboards at Intel) never had the luck with passives where they would flip along an edge... it was always up on end... like a tombstone. Which, of course, left us with a lack of connection through the device. :( Like the old saying goes, "I don't get to drive the train. I don't get to blow the whistle. I don't even get to ring the bell, but let the damn thing jump the track and guess who catches hell..." :)
Hay, you made the extreme series motherboards?
@@cheyannei5983 A couple a couple models before the 'X'tremes. Got my srart in Multibus industrial w the 386SX processor. :)
Wow! I've never seen one before!
Thanks.
Great video, Clive!
8:09 - thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.
i think the off/tipped leds happens when the circuit board is conveying. Either the tension gets to high, or low, as the led chips are being placed on the circuit board, or during soldering. which could cause them to tip over.
I really like these filaments, but they are delicate. Im holding out for the 5 mm version. =P
The 5mm (6mm) version is the LED neon strip.
I got myself a canister of silicone remover. When you let stuff soak in it, the silicone becomes swollen and softer and separates from the surface that it's cast onto. Maybe that would work for you too.
I’ll be getting some of those for my PC case