@@craigmose5898 Horsepower is the rate at which work is done. Torque is leverage. There's a reason all electric motors, and engines in general, are advertised with horsepower ratings. You can have all the torque in the world at 0 rpm. You're not spinning, so no work is getting done. You can spin a shaft as fast as you want, but if it can't provide any useable torque to drive the load, it's useless. More torque at the same rpm is more horsepower. More rpm at the same torque is ALSO more horsepower. Figure out how fast you want the engine to spin when providing the most power, and make as much torque at that RPM as you can.
I beleive you have a pretty nice little powerplant as it stands , sure the 300 hp number would sound nice.... but man 600 ft/lbs is what gets the work done. You are all ready 50% more than the 471 stock numbers, and I have run a number of old Tree Farmer skidders with clapped ols 4-71's that were nigh on unstopable. You dont strike me as a drag race kinda guy. I would think reliable and capable would be pretty high on the list. Anyway, nice work, and thank you for taking the time to share all of this with us. I know I am enjoying the ride along with you.
Thanks, very true.:) I'll start working on a better turbo and improve the efficiency so I can get the last bit of unburned fuel left.:) Like you said torque gets the job done.:) I might be able to get another 15 HP through blower and turbo improvements, but we'll see if that works.:)
I like torque too. The old High torque rise Mack 237's ran 237 at 12 to 1300 R's and 235 at 21. That was from the Mack book. It would run with a Cummins 290 but I needed another gear. Herded an R-model tractor that had a Dog 350 with a 12-speed. When the EG gauge hit 15 it was time to back off or shift. It had been burned a time or two. I was used to 18's and 5x4 boxes so I just shifted. Ran it for ages. NO problems here in the hills and the veg run was CLEAN and the 'N' blower was very little smoke. VERY little. You get the A-PLUS and looking forward to the bigger blower and the rest.
First off, thank you for all the r&d. How much boost is the turbo making, you neglected to mention it? Here in Washington state, decades ago. A Pacific power mechanic told me the blower was a potato in the way of the turbo. I don't think a little 7/8 bypass valve in the blower of a silver series is adequate. If you tee off of the intercooler. Install a boost activated butterfly. Turbo referenced. Go directly to the airbox, bypassing the supercharger. With similar airbox pressure you should see greater efficiency/power. Looking forward to your next video... Thanks
Thanks, I'm making 20 psi Turbo boost, airbox was 30-35 psi and drive pressure is 30 psi. This is an N blower with no bypass, Silver blower will be tested soon to compare. You're right about using an external bypass into the airbox, I do that with the Silver 4-53T in my truck. I'm just getting an idea of how much each blower adds or subtracts power before I try external bypasses. A newer generation turbo with a bypass will help as well.:)
There's 2x boost gauges on the panel near the throttle and retarder quadrant. The bottom one is the airbox pressure the one above it is turbo boost pressure. The turbo boost pressure gauge has the reflection of of the flouro light on it at times. You can't read the gauges on any screen resolution lower than 720p *the gear symbol on the bottom of the YT video bar. I have low speed internet so my default is 480p and I have to turn it up to 720p but 1080 or higher is preferable. Could be hard to see if watching on your phone.
@detroitgarage9430 I may have missed the episode where you outlined the difference in hp between the TA & the TI , would be interesting to know at some stage, thank you. 👍
@detroitgarage9430 Okay, sorry my misinterpretation, I was wrongfully assuming you had an aftercooler on it originally, then at some stage changed it over to an intercooler!!
Nice run, very cool you were able to hit 600 ft.lb’s, that N blower is moving some air! It’s amazing it can run that clean, with little to no smoke, all while using injectors way bigger then you would ever see stock. Excited to see how the 6.4 turbo works, like you mentioned they are cheap on EBay now days.
what a great little engine, I have a F350 dually flatbed that I got for free after my uncle Blew the 6.0 in it and I have been debating if I want to try my first detroit in it or do a 6bt swap, only real hangup is with a 6bt there is so many transadaptors for the 5R110 and the stock fords canbus but man I LOVE the sound of the detroit. Wonder what would be a good manual option for one that would actually fit in the F350 lol
When I'm finished testing this engine I'll be adapting the ZF6 behind it. Adapting a Deere housing, 6.4 flywheel and clutch to bolt the ZF6 onto. Eventually after I've beat on it in the Diamond T I'll swap it into my F350. I'm currently running the 5R110 behind the Silver 4-53T. I've driven the same truck with a Ppumped Cummins at 325 hp 5r110 and it was very nice.:)
Cummins conversion is definitely the simpler choice due to aftermarket support…but a Detroit conversion is just unique and special, I’d bet it’s like one Detroit to 1,000 plus Cummins conversions. Quick Draw Brand makes an adapter kit to a NV4500 for inline 53 series, but it will set you back $1900.
I am a metal fabricator by trade so I have access to a bunch of steel and heavy press brakes, its my family business so I can use the machines whenever. I almost want to go crazy with it and because my truck is a 4 door and cut the cab up and mount a 6V71 in the middle of the frame, I just haven't wanted to start a big project like that rn haha, I'll prolly just do a 6bt swap unless I can luck out and find a cheap 4-53T and a transmission
I love your methodical approach to all of the changes you’re making. It really seems like you’re lacking in the fueling department at this point. I know you don’t want smoke but you should be able to load the engine to the point that it does start to smoke and then tune out the smoke. There’s more power in there somewhere!
Thanks, very true.:) I'll see if I can't squeeze some more power from the fueling I have now.:) I can go up 10-15cc more fuel with a set of new tips, but have to see how much more power I get with a 100cc injectors.:)
I had a 8v92t in a fire truck that was bilt by leids diesel. She was turned up pretty good i am guessing over 500hp we had problem with liner oring melting. Thinking the engine would lug down down before down shifting and egts would go up. But the last time they fixed the engine then made the blower spin fast to help with egts and it ran better yet. but not sure how they change the blower speed.. not sure if it can be changed on a 453t to help to increase hp/torque 🤔
Thanks, the 71 and 92 series can have different drive ratios for the blower, but 4-53 is just a fixed speed. About the only thing I can with the N blower to help is make a bypass for it. That would recover lost HP on the top end by about 8-10HP? I'll be trying the bypass Silver blower to compare.:)
600 ft lbs is awesome! I notice that the torque occurs below 2000 rpm and your manifold pressure is falling off its peak at maximum torque. Is there a plan/ potential to keep manifold pressure and fuel delivery higher so that the rpms are not falling off below 2000 rpm?
I'm going to start testing other turbos to see if I can keep the turbo spooled at lower rpms. I have a BorgWarner K27 to test and that's a nice little turbo with a bypass valve. HX35 replacement for the Cummins and many others. Also have a divided housing for the current turbo to see if that helps. The compressor wheel at 66mm is too large, so something like a 62/65mm turbo would be much better. Still have a ways to go to dial it in,:)
Thanks, it's already set to 2800 no load. as the dyno is loaded for these runs at 200-300 ftlbs max rpm is 2600-2700.:) I might try 3000 and see if it has any benefits.:)
I'll take torque over horse power myself! So the turbo plot thickens! Good stuff. Thanks and God Bless
Thanks, I'm looking forward to testing different turbos.:)
I agree, Hp, ok…torque, that’s what I’m after! That’s what diesels are all about!
@@clayclifford53 :)
@kevinbrewer9421 horse power is how fast you hit the wall...torque is how far you move the wall...
Torque is what move stuff..
@@craigmose5898 Horsepower is the rate at which work is done. Torque is leverage. There's a reason all electric motors, and engines in general, are advertised with horsepower ratings.
You can have all the torque in the world at 0 rpm. You're not spinning, so no work is getting done.
You can spin a shaft as fast as you want, but if it can't provide any useable torque to drive the load, it's useless.
More torque at the same rpm is more horsepower. More rpm at the same torque is ALSO more horsepower.
Figure out how fast you want the engine to spin when providing the most power, and make as much torque at that RPM as you can.
I beleive you have a pretty nice little powerplant as it stands , sure the 300 hp number would sound nice.... but man 600 ft/lbs is what gets the work done. You are all ready 50% more than the 471 stock numbers, and I have run a number of old Tree Farmer skidders with clapped ols 4-71's that were nigh on unstopable. You dont strike me as a drag race kinda guy. I would think reliable and capable would be pretty high on the list. Anyway, nice work, and thank you for taking the time to share all of this with us. I know I am enjoying the ride along with you.
Thanks, very true.:) I'll start working on a better turbo and improve the efficiency so I can get the last bit of unburned fuel left.:) Like you said torque gets the job done.:) I might be able to get another 15 HP through blower and turbo improvements, but we'll see if that works.:)
Awesome work, sir! Detroit knew what they were doing when they designed these engines.
Thanks, I agree, they are truly remarkable engines.
Your channel fascinates me. Really looking forward to Turbo Talks.
Thanks, it's a lot of fun doing these videos.:)
Looking forward to Turbo Talks
I'll be releasing that one on Wednesday, covering 3 turbos and one new one.:)
I like torque too. The old High torque rise Mack 237's ran 237 at 12 to 1300 R's and 235 at 21. That was from the Mack book. It would run with a Cummins 290 but I needed another gear. Herded an R-model tractor that had a Dog 350 with a 12-speed. When the EG gauge hit 15 it was time to back off or shift. It had been burned a time or two. I was used to 18's and 5x4 boxes so I just shifted. Ran it for ages. NO problems here in the hills and the veg run was CLEAN and the 'N' blower was very little smoke. VERY little. You get the A-PLUS and looking forward to the bigger blower and the rest.
Thanks, see if I can squeeze some more power out of the fuel.:) Just about have it smoke free.:)
@@detroitgarage9430 You really do! REALLY! Featerfooting it would do it!
That's better! Awesome job!
Thanks, I'm pretty happy with the results.:)
First off, thank you for all the r&d.
How much boost is the turbo making, you neglected to mention it? Here in Washington state, decades ago. A Pacific power mechanic told me the blower was a potato in the way of the turbo. I don't think a little 7/8 bypass valve in the blower of a silver series is adequate.
If you tee off of the intercooler. Install a boost activated butterfly. Turbo referenced. Go directly to the airbox, bypassing the supercharger. With similar airbox pressure you should see greater efficiency/power.
Looking forward to your next video...
Thanks
Thanks, I'm making 20 psi Turbo boost, airbox was 30-35 psi and drive pressure is 30 psi. This is an N blower with no bypass, Silver blower will be tested soon to compare. You're right about using an external bypass into the airbox, I do that with the Silver 4-53T in my truck. I'm just getting an idea of how much each blower adds or subtracts power before I try external bypasses. A newer generation turbo with a bypass will help as well.:)
There's 2x boost gauges on the panel near the throttle and retarder quadrant. The bottom one is the airbox pressure the one above it is turbo boost pressure. The turbo boost pressure gauge has the reflection of of the flouro light on it at times.
You can't read the gauges on any screen resolution lower than 720p *the gear symbol on the bottom of the YT video bar. I have low speed internet so my default is 480p and I have to turn it up to 720p but 1080 or higher is preferable. Could be hard to see if watching on your phone.
Peak torque; 600ftlb @1600rpm excellent torque figures and generated at excellent rpm!!! 👌
Thanks, very happy with the outcome so far.:)
@detroitgarage9430 I may have missed the episode where you outlined the difference in hp between the TA & the TI , would be interesting to know at some stage, thank you. 👍
@ At the moment I'm only running an intercooler. I don't have an aftercooler on the engine unless water meth injection counts as one?
@detroitgarage9430 Okay, sorry my misinterpretation, I was wrongfully assuming you had an aftercooler on it originally, then at some stage changed it over to an intercooler!!
@@damienodonohue1327 Ah, no problem.:)
Nice run, very cool you were able to hit 600 ft.lb’s, that N blower is moving some air! It’s amazing it can run that clean, with little to no smoke, all while using injectors way bigger then you would ever see stock. Excited to see how the 6.4 turbo works, like you mentioned they are cheap on EBay now days.
Thanks, I'm really happy with the progress.:) Can't wait to try that 6.4 turbo.:)
Sounds great!
Thanks.:)
Excellent, thanks Man.
Thanks.:)
what a great little engine, I have a F350 dually flatbed that I got for free after my uncle Blew the 6.0 in it and I have been debating if I want to try my first detroit in it or do a 6bt swap, only real hangup is with a 6bt there is so many transadaptors for the 5R110 and the stock fords canbus but man I LOVE the sound of the detroit. Wonder what would be a good manual option for one that would actually fit in the F350 lol
When I'm finished testing this engine I'll be adapting the ZF6 behind it. Adapting a Deere housing, 6.4 flywheel and clutch to bolt the ZF6 onto. Eventually after I've beat on it in the Diamond T I'll swap it into my F350. I'm currently running the 5R110 behind the Silver 4-53T. I've driven the same truck with a Ppumped Cummins at 325 hp 5r110 and it was very nice.:)
Cummins conversion is definitely the simpler choice due to aftermarket support…but a Detroit conversion is just unique and special, I’d bet it’s like one Detroit to 1,000 plus Cummins conversions. Quick Draw Brand makes an adapter kit to a NV4500 for inline 53 series, but it will set you back $1900.
@ :)
I am a metal fabricator by trade so I have access to a bunch of steel and heavy press brakes, its my family business so I can use the machines whenever. I almost want to go crazy with it and because my truck is a 4 door and cut the cab up and mount a 6V71 in the middle of the frame, I just haven't wanted to start a big project like that rn haha, I'll prolly just do a 6bt swap unless I can luck out and find a cheap 4-53T and a transmission
@@static_bolt Awesome, then you'll have no problem adapting to any trans.:)
I love your methodical approach to all of the changes you’re making. It really seems like you’re lacking in the fueling department at this point. I know you don’t want smoke but you should be able to load the engine to the point that it does start to smoke and then tune out the smoke. There’s more power in there somewhere!
Thanks, very true.:) I'll see if I can't squeeze some more power from the fueling I have now.:) I can go up 10-15cc more fuel with a set of new tips, but have to see how much more power I get with a 100cc injectors.:)
I had a 8v92t in a fire truck that was bilt by leids diesel. She was turned up pretty good i am guessing over 500hp we had problem with liner oring melting. Thinking the engine would lug down down before down shifting and egts would go up.
But the last time they fixed the engine then made the blower spin fast to help with egts and it ran better yet. but not sure how they change the blower speed.. not sure if it can be changed on a 453t to help to increase hp/torque 🤔
Thanks, the 71 and 92 series can have different drive ratios for the blower, but 4-53 is just a fixed speed. About the only thing I can with the N blower to help is make a bypass for it. That would recover lost HP on the top end by about 8-10HP? I'll be trying the bypass Silver blower to compare.:)
What was peak EGT? Sconch over 900? Nice work, no smoke. Can you afford 1000cc water meth?? I think not.
600 ft lbs is awesome! I notice that the torque occurs below 2000 rpm and your manifold pressure is falling off its peak at maximum torque. Is there a plan/ potential to keep manifold pressure and fuel delivery higher so that the rpms are not falling off below 2000 rpm?
I'm going to start testing other turbos to see if I can keep the turbo spooled at lower rpms. I have a BorgWarner K27 to test and that's a nice little turbo with a bypass valve. HX35 replacement for the Cummins and many others. Also have a divided housing for the current turbo to see if that helps. The compressor wheel at 66mm is too large, so something like a 62/65mm turbo would be much better. Still have a ways to go to dial it in,:)
I'm really enjoying you documenting these efforts.
@@jeffpope6252 Thanks, there's very little info on the street on how it make clean HP and torque from Detroits.:)
If you would go bigger on the injectors how much bigger is able to be made up?
I can go up to 145cc injectors.:) I do know some guys running these claiming 320-350HP from them.
Air box boost (the blue colored gauge) is so much stronger,even at peak torque........with very clean exhaust. 600 ft/lb is quite an achievement.
Thanks, works really nice, now I'll work on squeezing more HP from it.:)
Try moving up the rpm to 2800. Would have more hp at the higher rpm. The 53 series can take it. Nice work!
Thanks, it's already set to 2800 no load. as the dyno is loaded for these runs at 200-300 ftlbs max rpm is 2600-2700.:) I might try 3000 and see if it has any benefits.:)
A shot of nitrous would be nice to see certainly bumped the horsepower up 😀
Very true, if it wasn't so pricey I'd be using it.:) Water meth is my answer to nitrous.:)
Multi stage water/meth injection
Thanks, this is just a cheap setup for testing. When it gets into the Diamond T it will end up with an AEM system that I run in my F350.:)
The answer is more boost, not necessarily blower, blower eats Hp.
Very true, working on a different turbo as we speak.:) Eventually setting up a bypass for the blower.:)