Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom - Timeline Placement & Connections!
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
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We are actually getting a NEW Zelda game and a Mainline title that features Zelda as the protagonist! While many elements seem familiar from previous Zelda entries, where does Echoes of Wisdom fall in the Zelda Timeline? Well the answer is much more than you think!
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Zelda's FIRST Mainline Adventure all her own is set up to answer a LOT of questions in the Zelda Timeline!
@@HMK now we need ganondolf game now
There is nothing in the updated timeline that says the OoX Link is different to the LA one so I don't understand why people claim he is, especially since it has previously been confirmed that they're the same Link.
Edit: page 19 of the encyclopedia is very clear that ALttP, LA, and the OoX games are the same Link.
DOUBT
I do think that this game takes place after triforce heroes, that would explain Link's new fabulous new cape (a present from the king of that game) and the absence of the Master sword.
And its possible that while Link was away in that adventure Ganon could have returned and kidnaped Zelda easily while link was gone.
I like and agree with your video, makes sense.
3:46 Somehow Ganon returned.
Ganon: I have died before. The dark side of the Triforce is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
On some Star Wars shit😂
Wait wait wait!!!!!! What about the boat scene in the end of oracle games
That originally lead to Link’s Awakening, before they changed its placement on the timeline
People tend to prefer developers intent over the encyclopedia change. Developers intent was that this was between ALttP and LA, so thats why the Historia had it set the way it did.
The Downfall Timeline has one problematic thing people forget when seeing the Races in Echoes of Wisdom.
That problem is that the Deku Scrubs exist, the Blue Zora exist, the Gorons exist, & the Gerudo exist.
But A Link to the Past & every other game taking place IN HYRULE during the Downfall Timeline shows that this can't be.
Those races were GENOCIDED in the Imprisoning War in the backstory of A Link to the Past.
That's why Gerudo Desert became called the Desert of Mystery with sand creatures ironically called Gerudoman.
That's why the Green Zora almost universally hate Hylians due to the pollution caused during the war.
That's why the Kokiri Forest of the Faron region is offscreen on A Link to the Past's & A Link Between Worlds' maps.
When Ganondorf killed Link, subdued Zelda, & gained the FULL TRIFORCE he was unstoppable outside of a dimension seal.
You have to think about the destruction he & his monsters caused with that kind of power intact.
AND you have to think about the relationship Hyrule's races had toward Ganon before the Imprisoning War took place.
Let's start with Ganondorf's own race, the Gerudos.
Gerudos worship the lone male Gerudo as a God King, remember? They follow his every whim.
All except people like Nabooru, his second-in-command, & those who would follow her.
Her rebellion against Ganondorf caused her to become revered as a Sage with a town named after her all the way to the time of The Adventure of Link. The people of that time may know her name without knowing her face or even race.
But the Hylians had bad relations with the Gerudos for centuries dating back before the founding of the Kingdom of Hyrule.
The Hyrulean Civil War is just one aftereffect of the ancient Interloper War that forged the Kingdom of Hyrule & that era's Temple of Time in the first place. This Temple's security protocol for the Triforce may be connected to the Twili which could be part Sheikah & part Gerudo themselves. The fights for the Triforce were just that bad.
The uneasy truce between Hylian & Gerudo were broken by Ganondorf's actions in Ocarina of Time.
So when the now-demonic Ganon wreaks havoc with FULL TRIFORCE, who in their right mind would trust the Gerudos?
AND would Ganon spare any Gerudo rebels to his throne? The Gerudos would be dead on both sides.
Hyrulean forces would kill them for their treachery, Ganon's forces would kill them for their treason.
So the Gerudo were made EXTINCT in the absolutely vicious Imprisoning War.
That's why you never see them in that timeline ever again & not just in the old games made before Ocarina of Time either.
The shame of the Gerudo caused the Hylian Crown to erase their existence from public record.
And eventually people forgot the name of Gerudo Desert making that region the Desert of Mystery.
Since the Gerudos were almost always Women, what remaining knowledge of Gerudo existing amongst the people would have them name sand monsters Gerudoman in full irony.
The Link of Ocarina of Time lived in the Kokiri Forest with the Kokiris & surrounding Deku Scrub neighbors.
When Ganon went HARD in his FULL TRIFORCE rampage he would naturally go after Link's adopted home & destroy it alongside any potential Great Deku Trees that could be sprouting. He possibly burnt this whole forest to the ground.
That's probably why we never get to see it onscreen on A Link to the Past's & A Link Between Worlds' maps.
Turn that map 45° clockwise & the Faron region which contains Kokiri Forest would be towards the Southeast.
Ganon's rampage most likely killed all forest life entirely including the Kokiris & Deku Scrubs. So they're both EXTINCT.
If there were any survivors from that, they were probably represented by the Lumberjacks of A Link to the Past.
Lost their eternal youth with the death of the Great Deku Tree & migrated to the northern forest that became the new Lost Woods of A Link to the Past. But any Kokiri as you once knew them are long gone due to the Imprisoning War.
The wood-based Deku Scrubs don't seem to have survived at all since you never see them in this Downfall Timeline.
Who were the most formidable of Ganondorf's enemies? The Gorons. The big strong tough rock golem giants.
Ganondorf ALWAYS tries to eliminate the Goron threat early on & usually exploits their big weakness: their appetite.
Gorons are picky eaters when it comes to their rocks so to beat them you have to starve them.
Ganon with FULL TRIFORCE would either do that or straight explode them on sight outright.
He can't take a chance with these tough guys so he made sure they were made EXTINCT.
That's why you never see Gorons in Hyrule in the Downfall Timeline ever again. Ganon killed them off in the Imprisoning War.
Their former home Death Mountain, once known as the Eldin Volcano, gets either renamed by Hylian Crown into Mount Hebra or keeps its name but has no sign of the people who named it Death Mountain, the Gorons.
The Zoras still exist but not in the form we came to know them in Ocarina of Time.
They're not blue & pretty, they're green & ugly. Zoras like their ancestors the Parella are territorial & aloof from neighbors.
But they were at least friendly to the Hylian Crown due to terms made from the Hyrulean Unification.
You can deduce that Hylian Royals can visit the Zora grounds at the Sleepless Waterfall with Royal Song so long as the Hylians keep up their end of the bargain by keeping the Zoras' waterways clean & healthy.
That's why we have that big rock blocking the path to the Zora's River & why there's a Hylian Lake Scientist with a lakeside lab monitoring Lake Hylia where Zoras like to hang out & frolic. All part of the agreement.
Zoras depend on healthy stable waters to maintain their forms. They are VERY sensitive to changes in the waters.
The bloodshed & darkness of the Imprisoning War caused by FULL TRIFORCE-powered Ganon would ruin all of this.
The Zoras lost their old forms due to the polluted waters & held the Hylians responsible ending their peace treaty.
That's how the Pretty Blue Zoras BECAME the Ugly Green Zoras & that's why the Zoras began to hate & attack Hylians.
A handful of Zoras here & there tried to be reasonable like Queen Oren but most Zoras became enemies to Hyrule.
And we all know how long Zoras can hold grudges based on the events of Breath of the Wild.
So Echoes of Wisdom cannot take place where you say it does because these Races still exist in the game.
It seems to take place in a time AFTER The Adventure of Link, Four Swords Adventures, & Spirit Tracks but BEFORE Breath of the Wild & Tears of the Kingdom. We won't know until the game is out exactly or approximately where it fits.
We know it can't be the Unified Timeline, that's for sure.
I actually think this might take place centuries after four swords adventures. Its a timeline where Ganon was sealed and not destroyed. Also, despite taking place years after twilight princess, there's mysteriously no mention of the master sword in FSA. Echoes could follow the trend of now having the four sword be mysteriously MIA as well. Leaving Ganon to roam free again in this time.
I am excited for more Zelda games with Zelda as the main character
I also think that this still takes place after the Oracle Games at least where Ganon was inmediately destroyed after his resurection, because after A Link to the Past Ganon was also destroyed and had to be resurected by Twinrova.
And looking at the Sword of Link I am thinking this is the Noble Sword from the Oracle Series that got upgraded into the Holundrum/Labrynna Duplicate of the Master Sword since you can only harm Ganon with Spin Attacks or if you upgraded the Noble Sword into the Master Sword
My interpretation is that this game takes place after AOL (Zelda 2) and Zelda 1.
This is because Ganon would not be able to escape his imprisonment so early, as ALTTP is the first time Ganon escapes his seal by the sages and seizes the complete Triforce after OoT's downfall timeline beginning.
Over time, ALBW And ALTTP's Hebra mountains (called this in japanese but in the american release as Death Mountain) froze over and is now extinct or dormant.
Zelda's design is more similar to ALBW but has variety so is probably after ALBW.
Link's shield isn't the same either as the royal crest differs from LA's remake.
In AlttP, Ganon has yellow eyes, speaks and is intelligent. EoW's Ganon has red eyes and seems to be under control of another entity, like OoA and OoS as well as LOZ1 and AoL's Ganon.
Both versions of Zora are seen but not in ALTTP or ALBW. These Ocean Zora ( seawater designed Zora) may have come from Labrynna after evacuating from Hyrule AGES ago.
So, this game takes place after AoL and before ancient BotW.
Ooh I am super excited for this new Zelda game
I think Nintendo should do a remake of the Oracle games like what they did with links Awakening!
The Oracles are fine and on NSO, we need new games.
@@sk8bit_gameAgreed. Although I wouldn't mind an Oracle of Secrets game finally
You know it would make sense that the Zelda from A Link to the Past would get her own adventure after being included in Smash Bros
Hope we get some more Hyrule Warriors games and a Zelda JRPG.
@@nicholase82 I would love to have a Zelda JRPG!
I would love to see spiritual remake of the Oracle games, but this time with the third one that was planned I think the technology has improved enough that that is possible, and I said, spiritual remake copies, the gameplay of the original 2 Oracle games with taking their place in the timeline
Honestly there are some glaring inconsistencies though, primarily with the Zora and the Great Deku Tree.
The former having both River and Blue Zoras, and the latter being pretty much a copy of the BOTW/TOTK Great Deku Tree + Master Sword Shrine.
Honestly makes me think it may be the "Bridge" game from the classic 3 timelines and BOTW/TOTK (as elements we'd later see in that game's era are creeping in)
The Deku Tree seen here is 100% more OoT than BotW/TotK, and Nintendo have even differentiated the two designs in the upcoming Lego set. I'm with you that hopefully this game bridges the timeline somewhat though.
@@mikebrushing1851 was more talking about the Master Sword shrine being right in front of it
@@mikebrushing1851i feel Nintendo putting both trees in one set whole heartedly implies THE Great Deku Tree to be the same Tree throughout this timeline.
We know the original tree dies in OoT, regardless of Young Links efforts to save him. The sprout happens shortly after freeing the Forest Temple of it's curse and that sprout remains (and is a lot more mobile as a sprout).
Every tree thereafter is either non existant or the sapling grown up; non existant in the fallen timeline, maybe up this point if that is where this one falls (pun intended).
The great Deku Tree we see in Breath and Tears is that very sprout with memories and all of each previous root.
Heck; one theory I have regarding light roots is that they are the roots from the trees we plant in Windwaker, bringing light to a forgotten world in the *depths* of the ocean. Had there been a ruined castle in the depths, it would almost solidify my theory.
Anyhow; tl;dr version; as far back as we know, the Deku Tree in Breath/Tears is the very same sprout from OoT. The deku trees death is a fixed point in time; The Great Deku Tree even directly says that while Link fought bravely, the curse that had been placed had already taken it's toll. The sprout grows up in two out of three timelines to a larger (and varied) version of the previous incarnation (or the original tree). I'm not sure he has been seen in the downfall timeline, I know we do have great trees in holodrum and labrynna though, both seemingly seperate from TGDT
Hyped!
I still much prefer the LttP - OoA/S - LA timeline more than whatever they decided the revised timeline. I feel like it flows a lot better.
And since Nintendo has effectively said the timeline doesn't matter and it's more of a suggestion that is the timeline I will be sticking to.
I don't think it really effects your theory about Echoes of Wisdom's placement either way though.
I like the OoA/S sailing away ending into LA but otherwise ALttP into OoA/S is a bit weird - Link saves the day in ALttP, wishes on the triforce, goes out on his new horse for a while, comes back and the Triforce already requires him to do these quests??
@@sk8bit_game Well we don't know how much time passed between the ending of LttP and the Oracle games.
Could of been right away, but I'd suspect it's months or maybe even a year or so after.
Would explain why Link is so lightly armed.
Twinrova sisters would of needed time to set up their plans cordinating with both of the Ages Villians. Also Link is on friendly terms with Zelda and Impa, so that means they had to of spent some time with them outside of adventuring.
ALttP-OoX-LA was their developers intent. If you go through the interviews of each game. You'll find out that the Historia timeline placements (aside from FSA which was said to be a sequel to FS although unconfirmed to be a direct sequel) are based on the confirmed placements they made for each game after they released.
@@ShadowEclipexPeople find it weird because Impa never existed prior as proven in ALttP, Link has a triforce symbol thats stated to be a birthmark which was absent prior in ALttP and after in LA, Zelda didnt know who Link was and LA's JP manual mentioned something about Link growing tired of all the peace he brought to Hyrule and seeked adventure, traveling to foreign lands to train.
@@firionkaiser8291 Ah, yeah all that stuff does start adding up. But with how loose they are playing things with timeline in general I will probably keep viewing it as AlttP - OoA/S - LA unless they add something major.
Feels like a lot more of smooth story to me that way.
I'm not too bothered by its timeline placement. I'm just looking forward to playing a new Zelda game.
I agree with this placement and the fact that the downfall timeline is a complete copout.
at the end of link's awakening
You know for a timeline many consider a what if, it sure as hell comes off as the main timeline. (Love the DT mind you). Honestly, a missed opportunity to bring us back to the Zelda 1/Zelda II AoL Hyrule
Anyway i saw a theory that placed EoW after Zelda II AoL and I could see that making sense for a few reasons.
After Zelda II we would have a scenario where two zeldas are in power or at the very least Sleeping Zelda would be of some guidance to the Zelda from Zelda I with NES Link as king as the lore established by making it so Link could read the late king's (Sleeping Zelda's Father) text. With the full triforce back and a new king who has the same traits as Sleeping Zelda's father and the kings before him. Hyrule would enter its Second Golden Era.
Hyrule Castle only ever had a Castle Town during the first Golden Era and during the decline era if we go by the artwork of Zelda 1 and Zelda II. It would also be the perfect time for races we once thought were dead, to return now that Hyrule isnt in a severe decline anymore.
Which also explains the River and Sea Zoras having communications/arguments with each other. Where as Hyrule was originally River Zoras dominant as early as ALttP (and maybe the IW).
I like this idea because it may explain the change in Hylian armor and the resurgence of the Hylia statue being around in EoW. If you look at the timeline at face value, all the games in it aside from SS (excluding BotW and TotK since their spots are an eternal mystery) the knowledge of Hylia seems to be completely forgotten. The only thing close to it is the statue/trophy in Zelda II which one could debate is a statue of Hylia.
i thought so too after i watched the trailer for the 3rd time.
"Third game in the same tineline A Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds."
Wpuld that technically be thr 4th game? Aonuma confirmed that Tei-Force Heroes stars the exact same Link from ALBW, taking place after it. So woulsnt that make this a Quadrilogy qith ALTTP, ALBW, TFH, and EOW?
Ha, ha. Good one with the multiple shots wordplay and Zelda shooting multiple times.
Ganon somehow returned!
@@spadezap9728 Yup. Because the Royal Family and it's Hero, are fated to witness and fend off hardships from a powerful enemy- for all eternity. (Demise's Curse).
Star wars ruined the word somehow
I hope this will encourage Nintendo to do more cozy Zelda games.
I think it would take place 5 years before lttp
I think this new game will fall to the falling of the hero but I'm just guessing because the game hasn't come out yet
The shifting, even small, of the timeline like with the Oracle games placement makes me imagine the timeline is just Hyrulean Historians attempting to piece together different legends and try to make them work within the realm. And every game and thus timeline is interupted by the story tellers explaining these legends to the audience.
Knowing Nintendo though, they won’t care about a link between worlds lore
God, I hope this game actually has decent storytelling. I really want to be excited for Zelda again but the last two games' storytelling has left me burned. My biggest fear is that this is going to feel like Cadence of Hyrule.
Considering the "official" timeline already has another objectively incorrect placement (FSA being in the Child Timeline even though it's LITERALLY SAID IN-GAME that it's the same Link and Zelda from Four Swords), I wouldn't treat it as concrete gospel. For example, I don't buy for a second that TFH is really a sequel to ALBW because they were incredibly fickle about where they claimed it might go, first saying "who knows, it could go anywhere" then "it's not even canon at all lol" and finally just defaulting to "well, it's on 3DS, so I guess put it after the other 3DS game" instead of putting any actual thought into it. (and for the record, I personally believe it makes way more sense if TFH is a sequel to Spirit Tracks' "I Dunno" ending where Link leaves Hyrule entirely to find a new path in life instead of staying to become a knight or engineer)
Anyways, my point about the official timeline not being perfect is that I believe it was a mistake to reorder LA and the Oracles, and that they were correct the first time with the Oracles coming first (albeit in the wrong order themselves since Ages > Seasons actually works far better narratively than Seasons > Ages). Furthermore, a game that is rarely brought up (despite never actually having been confirmed to be non-canon) and actually fills in several blanks when taken into account is Ancient Stone Tablets. This Satellaview sequel to ALttP is set 6 years later, and is confirmed to be happening concurrently with Link's Awakening, but when you factor in the Oracle games having already happened too, everything lines up incredibly well. In the Oracles, Twinrova's botched ritual results in Ganon's body being resurrected as a mindless monster, and in AST, Ganon's lingering spirit, having been detached from his now-sealed-away body, tries to make a new one before being destroyed for real, leaving his original body mindless when it returns in ALBW. The Triforce also doesn't appear in LA or in AST, so it splitting at the end of the Oracles isn't a problem either.
Finally, regarding Echoes of Wisdom, I think that it makes the most sense to go after ALBW. While the Hyrule seen in ALttP, ALBW, and EoW have enough similarities that they're clearly meant to be the same Hyrule, EoW seems to have far too many differences to be set between the other two, whose maps are near-identical after 6 generations have passed. A lot more time would need to have passed for the ALttP/ALBW map to transition into the EoW map. I also don't think it could go before ALttP, because I'm in the camp who believes that's where FSA is really MEANT to go (as opposed to it's ridiculous placement after TP), and if that's the case, Ganon gets sealed in the Four Sword until it's time for the Imprisoning War, where he breaks out, takes the Triforce, and is subsequently sealed in the Dark World until ALttP roughly 600 years later.
Honestly I think it might be their try at making the imprisoning war on screen. Fixing the downfall spilt which no one really liked anyway and changing the whole downfall timeline to fit elsewhere. Maybe with the backstory connecting with sometime after Rauru and Sonia, and the rest of the Zonai. Yes it would be a ret con, but if they really want to have all the games fit on a timeline it is one way to do it. The other background placements could be a timeline split after Skyward Sword or after the Minish Cap. Both of which I have heard theories about a spilt being possible though I don't really remember them.
However moving the downfall timeline to be after Rauru and Sonia even if it is a ret con honestly sounds like almost a good idea. It would mean that the fallen timeline's Ganon was always Calamity Ganon just that he got less and less physical over time. With Link actually gone it would make sense for it to be a version of the imprisoning war. It could even be that the Master Sword from the Hyrule before Rauru and Sonia refound it is somehow found during the game. Zelda from TotK would have told stories about it so the Myth that it exists would have existed in such a time. Though with Zelda as the main character the Master Sword might not play such a big role...well unless Link also has a story within the dark world but I doubt they would do that.
I really hope they find a way to replace the Downfall Ending of OoT too, I guess it has worked as a placeholder for the time being, but something more concrete that actually happens in-game would be sooo much better. Definitely into a timeline split from Skyward Sword or an original version of TotK's past where Zelda never appeared.
How many games have to be released with a deliberate, methodical, intentional middle finger to the official Zelda timeline before we the fans acknowledge what the dev's have been telling us literally since the timeline was made official, that it's not real and shouldn't be a thing at all
I would think and place it very first in the downfall timeline and it would follow the aftermath of the hero being defeated. So this would mean that EoW Zelda is the same as OoT Zelda, but this placement would explain the presence of the Deku merchant and Gerudo and also why there are two different types of Zora in the game. However, I can't say if Nintendo, the Zelda franchise and EoW could be this dark, because this placement would mean that Link has been now defeated.
As im fan of zelda and just finished link awekening i sadly have to say i hate that map and i would preffer to get a different one for that game 😢
Thankfully, a "somehow Ganon returned" situation would actually have a logical explanation within the game... For example, his Trident could be sentient like Ghirahim, pretending to be Ganon while enacting it's evil scheme to revive the real Ganon!
...Completely aside from that, I just wanna say that the "Downfall" Timeline had always been dumb (Link dying is lame if it isn't done right!), it needs to be moved to after Four Sword Adventures at the end of the Child Timeline, to make that the first instance of blue pig-demon Ganon.
Timeline splits should only occur when actual time travel happens!
In my opinon, there is no more a timeline. Botw and Totk are their own timeline and Echoes of Wisdom probably is not located anywayd
Trying to establish a Zelda timeline was a mistake.
Not really
There was a timeline from the start.