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Does the coffe grind in the portafillter have to touch the shower head ? I can't get anyone to give me an answer...hopefully you can....can't wait to try the 9bar spring
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thanks for letting me know.....but now I'm really confused..... evey time I give that 3mm gap between the shower screen I get more channeling....what gives ???
@@jmoore9806 Hey J, well channeling can be caused by many things. It mostly has to do with puck preparation. There's all kinds of videos about WDT and preparing your puck well. I saw a good one here: ruclips.net/video/m_6oU7fUODg/видео.html
Thank you. The most useful video on this subject I've come across. I would add a couple of comments : 1) The stainless steel lid slides out from the thin black lip at the front of the machine & 2) A 10mm spanner/wrench undoes the nut Most helpful. Thanks.
Very nice video ! A lot of Gaggia lovers talk about modifying to 9 bar spring. However, i have to say, my stock Gaggia Classic Evo Pro (model 2023) combined with my Eureka Mignon Spezialità produces extraordinary espresso, even compaired witg the best café's around here - 17 grams double shot extraction time about 30 seconds, depending on coffee. So i'm hesitating to change the spring!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner perhaps you're right, and perhsps i will replace the spring - risking the warrenty of the machine perhaps as well ! However thx again !
@@dejedejsson IIRC Pro EVo is the new model with the spring installed but not if purchased much before and only the EVo model. From what I was reading/researching: you can swap the old spring back in and it is undetectable that the machine was modified and they're unlikely to refuse warranty service. That said you have to be very, very careful about leaving any residual water inside the unit (drips from replacing the spring) as you can easily short out the motherboard and then it's obvious you were tinkering with stuff.
Great video! One thing I noticed was that the brass fitting was on there good! I managed to get it off slowly without breaking the plastic housing but it looked like there was red thread lock used from the factory? It looks like there is room for a small O-ring, but I couldn't see that deteriorating into what was left. Be careful folks, it can take some muscle if your machine is a few years old like mine is!
Holy crap, I just did this, I knew there would be SOME difference, but I wasnt expecting this MUCH difference I got, even with relatively cheaper coffee I used for learning/experimenting. Best spent few pounds. Thanks for your video!
Hey Tom - Thanks for the video - following your directions I changed out the stock spring to a 9 bar and I like it. IMO the espresso I’m making is definitely better! Kudos
Thanks to all your vids and guidance I now have far better coffee. I've changed the steam wand, switched to a naked portafilter, get the right amount of coffee into the basket, got all the accessories and now pretty decent crema. Now I'm being asked to make coffee for everyone at home in the mornings 😄😄😄.
Great video Tom. I understand the 6 bar spring is used for turbo espressos but that mean a coarser ground and 7 to 15 sec extraction. The benefit is less channeling so better quality from shot to shot
@@TomsCoffeeCorner the method was proposed by maths 2 years ago and it is based on formulas, physics etc. The common sense says it should taste bad but it doesnt !! I tried in a dedica and was very good in flavour but little weak as it needs higher ratio (15gr in 40 gr out)
Yes, sorry about that. The auto focus darts around sometimes. I made a follow up video, it is much shorter, and just focuses on the mod. The focus should be better here: Gaggia Classic Pro 9-Bar OPV Mod | The Quick and Easy Way! ruclips.net/video/Kyjpe3SdSsE/видео.html
1, from my experience that get better seal by add teflon tape to your pipe fitting and gauge then test the pressure, you won't get the swing on the gauge, and any leaks, even though it was little water drops will cause false reading on the gauge, 2, a lot of people would think your 9bar shot was good, no channeling, but there were channeling, take a look your espresso stream, it swings, that indicates there was uneven extraction going on in your puck, and if you look at the flow rate, that wasn't good neither, that's why I suggested that you learned how to mod it with adjustable OPV and as we learn espresso more, the 9bar might not be necessary one day, I got my Delonghi 310 at 7bar with 2.5ml/s flow rate, other 310 at 8.5bar 3.5ml/s, I got great results from it with light roasted beans, and I learned it a lot of espresso from Decent channel. The adjustable mod, I post it on home barista website, check it out, if you'd like.
Hey there, thanks for your critique. What's funny is that on some pressures, I got a good reading, and on others, the needle did vibrate a lot. I will try the plumber's tape next time - good tip. I checked out your OVP thread for the ECO 310. That is pretty cool! Where did you find the OVP, and which fittings did you need? Definitely a cool mod. By the way, the ECO 310 has a boiler right on top of the brew group. Do you get better brew temps with that machine, compared to the EC685, where there is a good 8" of hose between the thermoblock and brew group?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner 310 does get better brew temps than 685 for sure, and the OPV that I got wasn't made for espresso but water heater for shower, therefore it was cheaper from where I live. xD
@@checkwhatsleft4565 Thanks for that info - very cool. Those are some interesting experiments you've got on those threads. Where'd you get that pressure gauged portafilter for the 310?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner That was bit of pricey gauge, it was made of full stainless steal and high heat resistant(consider brew temp goes up, so I got this type of gauge), drill a hole in the middle of filter basket and pipe fitting from hardware store, I made it into QR type, so once the gauge unthread from the pipe fitting and that filter basket is able to remove, fitting onto others, like 685, so on so froth, I made a temperature scace device for that as well, same concept(QR). xD
@@checkwhatsleft4565 Hey there, thanks for that info. But I do not know what you mean by QR type? Can you explain a little more how you converted the portafilter to accept the pipe fitting from the hardware store? It is like a nut threaded on both sides, screwed on on the inside of the portafilter, with a gasket? A picture would be nice :) I would love to build one for the Dedica.
I'm just getting mine to the assistance as I have a couple of problems one of which is it has started to extract coffee in 4 seconds letting too much water come down, after which the water gets too much clear as if it wasn't able to extrect anymore - I buy grinded coffee from the same coffee shop and it's the same Costa Rica quality -. we'll see. After august the warranty will expire so I'll try to mod it. You've been very methodic and the video shows clearly the differences.
I have heard that it is possible, and I plan to look into it. It’s more difficult to open the open pressure valve, and I do not believe they are any other aftermarket springs specifically designed for the Dedica, but the original spring can be shortened. I will look into this, and try to post a video in the upcoming months.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner It's a bit of a shame that there's no aftermarket spring for the Dedica. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in modding theirs
I have a possibly stupid question, but here it goes, I would be so happy if everyone contributed to the opinion. I am running a Gaggia Classic + Barazza Sette setup. Let's say I am using a regular Kimbo dark roast, just for the morning easy cappuccino, and I am using the Barazza Sette's 5E or 5F setting for grind size... Usually I found Kimbo very forgiving to extract, but I want to start playing with lighter roasts and more aromas. What happens to my grind size in relation to the pressure. If I am using less pressure do I adjust my grind size relatively? Should I go coarser? Let me explain more. I have been experimenting with specialty coffee, but I just cannot pull a good espresso. It is sour, bitter, underextracted, although the flowing coffee looks creamy and velvety, the taste is bitter and underextracted. I get channeling, or at the bottom of the portafilter, the coffee is well compacted but on the higher levels the water gets in the middle, so it is a coffee, water, coffee and group head filter sandwich... So, the question is. When I do this mod that I am going to do, how should I adjust my grind size? Any tip with channeling - bad extraction welcomed. thanks.
Could these springs (or something similar) be used in the new Gaggia Espresso Style or Deluxe? That could make a huge difference to an already great priced unit.
Question: I have a Gaggia Classic that on the outside, looks exactly like the unit shown in this video, but looking inside, most everything is the same, EXCEPT there is NO OPV mounted on the pump outlet. The plumbing diagram I managed to locate shows the OPV mounted directly to the group head, and there is a valve there with a black hose running to the water tank... So the question is: does the valve I have use the same spring that pump-mounted valve on the unit in your video does?
Hi Tom. Thank you for this excellent vid .... especially the great idea to just pull out the OPV tube. Well done! Would you ever consider just cutting the standard OPV spring? I think I have seen video's where people just cut it.
Hey Lama! No, I wouldn’t recommend doing that. I feel like the springs are designed for their lengths based on their tension. I tried shortening the spring in the Dedica, and was not so satisfied with the results. Perhaps it’s different with the classic pro, but I have not tried myself. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
Hi Tom. I stumbled on this video while learning all I can on YT about the Gaggiuino Project. I'm interested in buying and modding a Gaggia Classic Pro, because I'm tired of maintaining my ancient Pasquini Livia 90. My initial take on your 9 bar spring video, since I'm so accustomed to my Livia 90, is that perhaps I don't need all the fancy-shmancy stuff associated with the Gaggiuino Project, and could make some minimal mods to the Gaggia Classic Pro that will more than satisfy my simple espresso needs. What do you think? And what other SIMPLE brew enhancing mods can you suggest for the Gaggia Classic Pro along the same lines? Great video, BTW. Thanks a lot
I mean, the Gagguino mod is a lot of work. That's why I haven't done it yet. It would be SO much footage to take, then edit. The 9 bar mod is the best one IMHO, and I think most will be happy with it. The Gagguino allows you to adjust flow rate on the fly, to emulate other machines, like levers for instance. So if you want to nerd out, the Gaggunino is sweet. If you just want a good espresso, I'd suggest the 9 bar. And a nice bottomless PF for diagnosing shots. And an IMS basket. Cheers!
Just ordered springs and bottomless filter from shadowsofcoffee. Decided not to buy PID, since stock coffee is quite good for me. Never tried "temperature surfing", probably, I'm loosing something from unstable temperature, but I don't see real reason to do that and springs sounded more reasonable to change.
Both the 9 and 6.5 looked like they blonded a lot more than the first shot which looked darker and juicier for longer. But I understand the the 6.5 is supposed be have better taste and extraction overall
Thanks Tom. I've had the Shades springs for months, but haven't done the installation yet. I had assumed I would need to adjust to a coarser grind once I installed the 9 bar spring, but you kept your grind the same, correct? Was the timing for the extraction about the same? If so, that seems counter-intuitive to me. Just curious if you can confirm those details. Thanks! 👍
Hey Bob, I did keep the grind the same for all of the springs. The extraction times seemed similar, however I plan to do a more accurate test in the future, comparing the extraction time between pressures, with the same 2:1 yield. This first test, is just to kind of show how the extraction looks different based on the pressure, and what bearing pressure might have on taste.
So I installed the 9 bar spring this morning. It turns out my grind had to be very very slightly coarser. Like Tom, I've a Eureka grinder with the "infinite" adjustment knob which, as anyone with a Eureka knows, is maddeningly imprecise. If I was at a 3 on the dial with factory pressure, I'm at about 3.1 (coarser grind) with the 9 bar spring installed. I'm getting the same 1:2 extraction in 28 seconds with that slight tweak -- but to my surprise, it's almost not worth making. One thing I'm no longer doing is the "Gaggia pre-infusion hack". With factory pressure, to avoid channeling, I used to believe the pre-infusion hack was needed. My theory now is that pre-infusion might not be necessary since there's less pressure. Time will tell. Enjoying my double shot of Lavazza Gold.
Hi Tom! It looks like you've modified the stock Gaggia portafilter by unscrewing the spouts and adding a pressure gauge. I'm wondering if you can provide any details on this modification--in particular, what adapter you used to go from the thread on the portafilter to the thread on the gauge. Thanks!
I did that with mine, i used two adapters so that everything fits together. I went to a hardware store, in two minutes they found the right parts. Cost me two euros from memory.
That’s a good question, Alex. So far I only did one trial each. I will have to do some more testing, and report back to you. Maybe some other people can write their experiences here as well. 👍🏻
If you look visually, you will see that the 12 bar spring creates a MUCH larger cone on the extraction, than the 9 bar. It is also biased towards the back of the shower screen. With the 9 bar mod, the cone stays more centralized. Must have something to do with the pressure and flow penetrating the shower screen.
It would be informative to document the extraction times for the different pressures - I assume you are extracting the same amount of liquid each time and extending the extraction times as the pressure goes down.
Hey Tom, that’s a good point. For this video, my main intention was to show how to change the springs, and their respective pressure reading with the pressure gauge. Maybe I’ll do a more extensive test, comparing the extractions more closely. But of course you’re right, a lower pressure should extend the extraction time.
Thanks for the video Tom! I followed it and it helped me to change to 9 bar spring in my Gaggia classic pro. Do you perhaps have any idea why after I changed to 9 bar spring, started grinding even finer, I still have very fast flow at around 4 ml per second? Thanks in advance!
I wonder how much confirmation bias and just in general the placebo effect have a role in all of this :) Not saying its one way or the other. However, flow rate is prob the most important factor in all of this, and a slightly higher pressure can be offset by slightly finer grind I think the argument of how the cone looks is kinda invalid, since you can produce that cone with 15bar as well. It is however, a popular mod, and quite easy to do.
I feel like it makes shots more consistent, and less prone to channeling. I also have an older Delonghi ECP, where I think the pump is losing compression, and I prefer those shots, because I think the pressure in the system is 7-8 bars. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner yeah, you are probably right. Do you know if doing this affects the steam pressure in the wand? It should, right? At least in theory
I was thinking the same thing. Results need a blind test, there is a lot of confirmation bias and placebo going on. Bu I feel that happens a lot in the coffee world in general.
Hey Anthony, do you mean just show this spring as it looks? I could do that in an upcoming video. It looks pretty similar, but I think the wire strength is a bit higher.
What’s the difference with the espresso produced with the factory spring versus the 9 and 6? I own a Casabrew which came with pressurized basket, but it pulls terrible shoots with a bottomless filter.
Hi Tom, didn't you try adjustable opv kit, i.e. for vibieme? I know there is no room for it (add another 40mm in line) and it is pricey (whole kit cost 35 euros exc. shipping) but can be precisely adjusted.
Hi there! I didn't look into an adjustable one, as I wanted a simple and accessible mod to display. But I am sure that an adjustable OPV is a little nicer to have installed, if you want to experiment with differing pressures. Cheers! Tom
Hi! Thanks for the video! I just decided to change the spring on my GCP!!! quick question, you did provide a link from ebay and one from Shades of coffee.... do you think those springs from ebay are as good as those from Mrs. Shades? are those tested? Which one did you use?
Hi there! I listed the eBay springs for North American customers, to save time and money. The seller has excellent feedback, and lists his springs as high quality food grade stainless steel. 👍 Even the Shades website does not mention stainless steel or food grade, fyi.
I wanted to try this out, but my machine(SAACHI NL-COF-7055 ESPRESSO MACHINE ) has the spring pressure valve right above the head gasket(Just above the portafilter area). What would you recommend I do to get the right pressure for my espresso. Really appreciate everything you have done!!!
Wouldn’t if be easier if when ordering a Gaggia Classic Pro, upon making the order, Gaggia gave you the option of a 9 Bar spring without going to the trouble of taking the Gaggia Classic Pro apart to install a 9 Bar spring?
What is the 9bar OVP needed for? Does gaggia evo have this spring? 15 bar is foreseen in its own manual but what does it have to do with 9bar OVP? Is espresso ideally made at 9bar?
Any advice or video on how to remove the safety valve where the pink pipe is connected? I broke the plastic as I was unscrewing the OPV. I ordered a new 11bar pump safety valve.
That is a good question, that has been posed here before. You can follow the timeline of the video, but maybe I will just make a follow up video in the near future. 😉
Hi dear, If coffee should stay around 9bar, between 7bar and 11bar (as I read), why to buy 6bar spring? So, I think you don't really need to buy a new spring because the bolt work as settable OPV. If you unscrew very little you can reduce the pressure, but, you've absolutely put sealing teflon tape around screw thread to avoid water leaks. I did this years ago with original old plastic OPV (11bar), now I've "new" model like your, but is the same thing, i think, only for more pressure, 14/15 bar, I think. How should I measure the pressure? With filter inserted, with filter and coffee inserted or without filter or coffee? Because I've same pressure gauge (also same graduated glass :-) ) and I noticed the pressure is a little different with different setups. I want set my new OPV but the bolt is very tight and I'm unsure about pressure measurement setup...
Hey Tron! I believe the older models had adjustable OPVs. But the newer one doesn’t. Therefore, the springs. I think it’s debatable, how to measure the pressure. If you measure it as I did here, that is the max pressure. If you have an in-line manometer, then that should be the actual brew pressure. Cheers!
Could you change the grind size more coarse or fine to accommodate the different springs and essentially get the similar taste to each other? Like, produce the same results between a 9 bar and 6 bar spring by changing the grind size??
Haha, that's a good question. I have to admit that I probably don't have the taste palate for that, but I bet someone who does could answer that question. Certainly, you could mimic the times based on grind size, but the shot tasting is kind of subjective, and subject to the taster's preferences and palate.
Hi Tom, thanks for the video. Can you tell me if that springs would fit on a Gaggia Espresso Dose? Do you know this model? I think it's the same hardware as Gaggia Color.
Oh boy, I really don’t know. Even within the same model, they often go through manufacturing changes. Some of the Gaggia models even have an OPV that can be adjusted without changing the spring, but rather mechanically. If you open up your machine and take a look, maybe you will find out. 👍🏻
Hi, Tom. I have a question: with dimmer mod is necessary change the spring, since with control of water flow you can manage the pressure? Another question, I’m not fell confident to do dimmer mod, but change the spring for 9bar it’s ok. So, the difference between just change a spring for a 9bar and dimmer mod, in taste, is large, since with dimmer mod you can do pre-infusion?
I think the 9 bar mod is the most sensible of the two. The thing is, most cheap dimmers are not super linear, and therefore do not deliver the same flow each time. I just keep my pump turned on the whole time now. The 9 bar spring is just a one and done.
Dear Tom, do you know if the Evo Pro comes to Europe market with 9bar spring already installed or do I have to do it myself? Also I am looking for bottomless portafilter, what model do you have?
Honestly, I don't know. Whole latte love seems to have a special 'in' with the company. I see that they are now selling the new Classic Pro E24, with a brass boiler. I cannot find it anywhere else on the internet. So, I don't know if models sold in the EU also come with the 9 bar spring as the WLL ones do. But, it's a super simple mod.
Great vid. Any idea how to get a better cone shaped extraction? I have a Bartaza Sette 270 grinder and have tried all the grind sizes, I've tried WDT , temp surfing, pre infusion, and still an not able to get a full cone shaped shit. Any idea what I should do? Kind of upsetting since the shots taste fine but I wonder if something else may be up...
Hey Alexey, thanks for the question. It sounds like you have exhausted all variables. Have you checked into your beans? Have a look at this video I made about this topic: ruclips.net/video/5BgMKqu8fJI/видео.html
Ah shoot! You might need a replacement of the hose, unless you can cut it a little shorter and stick it on. www.juraprofi.de/Ersatzteile-fuer-Gaggia-Kaffeevollautomaten/RI9480-New-Classic/Schlaeuche-Verbinder.html?ts=24_1693_18
The spring is responsible for the maximum pressure allowed in the system. A 12 bar spring will first divert water back to the tank once the pressure hits circa 12 bar. A 9 bar spring will do it already at 9 bar, and so on. The spring in the OPV is really a safety gate, to not allow the pressure to get too high in the system. It is set at 12 bar from the factory, but ideally it should be lower for better espresso. Cheers!
Awesome video! I was experiencing really extraction flow despite grinding my light roast beans with a Eureka Mignon Silenzio at “zero” point. In fact, I ground the beans when the burrs were slightly chirping. I had 18 grams in and 80 grams out in 30 seconds. I changed my OPV bar on my GCP to 9 bar hoping that it would slow down but it didn’t. Any suggestions on what else to do? Is my Eureka or GCP defective? They are both brand new.
Hey Enrique! That definitely sounds out of whack. You should not be getting that much output in 30 seconds. If you are grinding near the zero point, you should just about be choking your espresso machine. By the way, even with the 12 bar spring, I still got my output at a 2:1 ratio in about 25 seconds. Perhaps the burrs on your grinder are misaligned. I can’t imagine that your espresso machine is putting out too much pressure. Unless of course, you were just in steam mode. In that case, you will get a huge output very quickly. Could you make a video and post the link here? Cheers ☕️ Tom 🙋♂️
@@TomsCoffeeCorner ah maybe that's the answer to my problem. I've been switching to steam for twenty seconds before pulling my shot because i saw a YT video saying it helps with pulling hot enough water, but it results in crazy flow rate even with the 5 bar spring. I shall experiment...
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I stopped doing that, I still get shots that are too fast. I've run out of variables to control. I use a scale (18g), a calibrated grinder on the finest setting, a puck screen, bottomless portafilter to make sure i dont have channelling (i use a dispersing needle, a good tamper), a clean machine, filtered water, a machine warmed up for 15min, different beans, i tried all the springs from shades of coffee, and i still get a shot in about 12 seconds.
Hi, a rather important curiosity... what happens if after the modification with a spring change from 15 to 9 I occasionally use the standard pressurized filter holder? does it work anyway? Does that improve too or can I throw it away?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner meanwhile thanks for the quick reply...since you are kind I have another question...and if I don't modify, then I leave the original spring and use the bottomless...can it slow down with a double steel disc above and below as well as fine grinding? do I avoid splashes?
That is SO interesting. I didn't realize the Gaggia Classic PRO had a different pressure mechanism than the original Gaggia Classic. With the original to adjust the pressure you pull that hose off of a brass fitting, remove the fitting with a 3/4" socket, then use a 5mm (or is it 4mm) allen key and turn the allen screw counter clockwise to relieve pressure. Then quick reassemble. No changing springs. That is quite different. Now I'm not so sure about the Classic Pro model, but for my original version I bought a PID kit for about $125 from a private party and installed it myself. So much better than temp surfing because of the temp consistency. The weak link of the Gaggia Classic is still the small boiler.
Hey Gero, yes some machines over the years have had an adjustable OPV. That is a nice feature! I agree about the PID and small boiler. But for the latter, at least it heats up quickly! Cheers! ☕️
No. I have measured the EC685 to max out at 11 bar, but with a normal coffee puck, it's more like 8-9 bar that the Dedica provides. Check this out: ruclips.net/video/Scsm9Vw6JrA/видео.html
I had a mid 90s Gaggia classic bought it new I returned for repairs and they gave me someone else’s machine back I got my cash back . Few years ago I bought a automatic bean to cup refurbished ended up binned I have a 20bar dualit machine it’s got 51mm pressure baskets I found a none pressure one … is it worth buying a £170 is sage pro grinder and hopefully getting a Gaggia classic in the future have you any views
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thank u for replying waiting for the grinder to come on 20percnt off and get it if and when I get the Gaggia pro will do the 9bar mod
Hi, I have the older model and I prepare my pressure gauge but, when I start the pump, there's a lot of leaks from the rubber seal. I change it for a new one, silicone, but still the same (and seal dims are correct). I really don't understand what's going on here...
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Yes, just right there... The seal height is 8.5mm as far as I know. A taller seal will solve the problema but, I think they're not available.
I'm wondering if the problem I'm having with my Gaggia Classic is due to the pressure spring. Once I turn on my machine and wait for the brew light, the first shot seems to pull okay. But if I were to prepare another shot, the second one literally gushes out of the portafilter and it pulls in half the time it should, as well as weak crema. I'm thinking there is way too much pressure but no one else doing this mod seems to be having this issue. Your shot seemed to pull just fine at 12 bars. I ordered a 9 bar spring and it actually just delivered to my house as I was watching this video. I'm hoping this fixes that issue
I cannot imagine there being such a difference between shots, at least I have not seen such a thing. Do you go to steam mode in between? Because that would make a big difference. Cheers!
Good and informative video. I've had my GCP for about three weeks now. I've been considering the OPV mod but decided to wait a few months. I want to get familiar with the way it is now and then I'll know if the change makes a difference.
Do you have a bottomless portafilter? The difference in the extraction is visually pretty obvious, because the cone shapes differ. With 12 bars, it’s a larger cone, and it’s biased towards the back, at least on my machine. The extraction with nine bar has a smaller cone, and is a little slower. I think it’s a good, and also very easy modification to do. Just beware, that you may get charged import duties, depending on where you live, since this is from the UK. Not if you live in America though. In America, imports are generally duty-free up to $800. 🤗
Don't do this to yourself! 9 bar is so much easier to dial, the window is so much wider and feedback goes on the right direction. Just do it With oem 12.5 bar you can get opposite results on grind and dose (maybe due to fines migration and/or puck conpression) and constantly battle to dial a coffee. 9 bar is the industry standard for a reason
@@ylleKkcirtaPnadnerB I'd go down to 6.5 bar. Even better, especially in the home market where you might lack the knowledge, technique or just equipement. That 6. 5 will provide even more forgiveness.
I've had my GCP for a month and using the spouted portafilter everything was great! Now that I'm using a bottomless the coffee sprays everywhere and super fast extraction.
I did this mod recently and the pressure seems to be lower than factory one. As I would love to know the pressure precisely, I wonder where can I buy this manometer (gauge measuring) device from the video? (ideally in Germany, as UK is no longer part of EU and custom/DHL costs may be ridiculously high now).
I know a taste test is subjective and personal, and all we can go by is your reaction, but it seems to me that using the same grind settings is a flawed test. Surely in the real world you adjust your grind setting for the best taste, so using the same setting when you know that extraction time will be affected, and therefore presumably taste will be affected provides you only with a literal comparison between two shots, and not the potential improvement that is possible with the change in bar pressure. If you adjust grind for the best taste in both cases, what is the outcome? Probably a lot more subtle! Do you find that you're still aiming for the same extraction target time for the best taste, or does it shift based on the lower pressure? Still, thanks for the demo, and especially showing changing out the spring. I have to take my Gaggia apart to deal with a leak, and I'm going to take the opportunity of trying the 9 bar spring.
Hy I just found your channel. I do not understand how does this work, and I have an extensive engineering background (credits are a must these days - everybody is an expert). The brewing backpressure is determined directly by the portafilter, I almost can guarantee you never hit 12 bar during extraction with your modified portafilter, even with the original spring. With original pressurized portafilter, yes - I can agree, but not with the one shown here. You can check if there is flow through the transparent hose, during a normal brewing. Have you noticed faster or slower brewing time with the current setup?
Hey Octav, you are right about that. The pressures shown are the maximum pressures. With a coffee puck, the pressure will likely be less. I believe the extraction times are similar as well, but I plan to do a video in the future doing a closer comparison. Thanks for watching! Tom
One more thing however. When using a spring lower than the typical pressure, then the pressurized water will be shunted back to the water tank before being allowed to reach a higher pressure. In those cases, it should alter the extraction. I’m referring to the 6.5 bar spring for example.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Correct. 6-6.5 bar seems lower than the expected brewing pressure. However, as you know things are not that simple, the flow changes during extraction due to puck becoming more or less permeable and so on. I believe you can best check if the overpressure valve opens during extraction, or maybe installing a pressure gauge before the mentioned valve. Might be tricky though
@@OctavMandru Yes, 6 bar is lower than the average extraction of 8-9 bar, which means that the max pressure to the puck should be limited to 6 bar. Of course, we cannot see the water flow back into the tank very easily, but that must be what happens. I have seen it happen in my Dedica experiment, where I cut the spring shorter.
Hi Tom, I have a breville barista express machine. I was thinking of using the dimmer switch hack to Reduce the pressure between the 2 methods which would you go for?
Hello Michael, that's a good question! As I understand it, these two methods are different in methodology and operation. For the spring mod, you are limiting or capping the maximum pressure applied to the brew group. With the dimmer (as I understand), you are adjusting the voltage to the pump itself, allowing dynamic control of the pressure throughout the whole process. I have not experimented yet with the second method, but I do believe it will require a learning curve, like using a paddle machine (Slayer, Bianca, etc). In summary, I think both have their merit, and their fun in experimenting! Cheers, Tom
It seems evident to me after employing the dimmer you don’t have to bother with the OPV spring. But if you do not add the dimmer reducing pressure from 15 to 9 bar is a huge improvement. ruclips.net/video/val-K-Z_YCM/видео.html
Does all these similar mashines got same spring pressure system? I have a Saeco Aroma and also want to lower pressure - but sotn find any info or kit to my mashine.
Yes, I in fact have that one currently installed, because I want to make another video with all springs. It tastes fine, but for my palate the 9 bar spring seemed to allow for a more rounded extraction, somewhat smoother.
Hey Norman, I suppose that would be interesting to see if the result can be duplicated by cutting the spring, and filing it so that there's no sharp edges. I will perhaps do that in a future video. Cheers! Tom
So if I'm about to buy a new Gaggia and I wanna install the new spring right from the beginning, I also have to purchase a different basket right away? If yes, which one? I know it's 58mm, but ... which type do I need?
I've wondered about this. I wonder if my machine has a 12 bar for that reason - pressurized basket. I have an old Gaggia Baby from 2000 that, I felt, was way too strong and would always be so touchy with blowing through my pucks and a lot of spraying even with very, very careful distribution and good level/weight tamping techniques. I ended up installing a trailing edge dimmer switch to the power going to the pump, which has an automatic soft-start built into it, and it made SO much of a difference. I might have to see if I can get a 9Bar spring for it, just so I can rule out it over-pressurizing.
That’s very cool, William! Where did you get the trailing edge dimmer switch from? Could you post a link? I’m curious. How did the dimmer switch affect the taste of your shots?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Being an Aussie, from the one place that has everything - Bunnings! General hardware stores that stock lighting equipment, switches and accessories for houses, should have rotary dimmer switches in stock. What is important is the TYPE of dimmer switch, because it has to be a leading edge dimmer. They trim the AC wave form from the front (which is why it's called a "leading edge" dimmer). I am pretty certain it is the one from the following link, however they look differently depending on the manufacturer. What is important that it is a Leading Edge rotary dimmer, with a minimum of 10 watts. The ULKA vibe pumps are 48Watts, I believe! SECOND LINK, is what the dimmer looks like inside the switch block. My dimmer kit: www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-leading-edge-light-dimmer_p4330550 What it looks like without face plate; hpm.com.au/product/250va-leading-edge-rotary-dimmer-standard/
@@TomsCoffeeCorner And it was revolutionary for my shots! Before the modification, my method of pulling a shot on the Gaggia Baby involved a pre-flush to release built up pressure from the boiler heating up, then I'd lock in the portafilter holder with my prepped puck. A gentle press of the brew button would open the solenoid but not start the pump, venting any extra pressure, then I'd full press and begin the brew. But even with meticulous prep of my tamp, every few shots, that sudden kick of the pump would shoot water into my puck and cause channeling. When I added the dimmer switch, this stopped completely with the soft-start on the dimmer switch, and the pump even sounds like it takes a half second or so to ramp up to full power. The dimmer switch also allows me to reduce the water flow speed, without affecting the OPV pressure valve. I added a switch as well, so I could open the solenoid but not power the pump. 100% success rate on my shots, and I fell in love with Espresso again, now that I wasn't pulling my hair out every other shot. 🤣
@@willthedingo VERY cool, Wiliam - thanks for that info! I will refer back to this thread when I do the dimmer mod. Never heard of Bunnings. Is it any thing like Lowes or Home Depot in America? Cheers! Tom
@@willthedingo Hey William, thanks for sharing your experience here. It sounds like a worthy mod, and something I would like to try in the future. I bet it would be cool on both the Gaggia and the Dedica, too. Cheers! ☕ 🙋🏼♂
I have never seen that one in person, but I kind of doubt it. Most machines in that price range have more of a safety valve, rather than an adjustable OPV...
What type of bean and name and flavor of coffee for this type of machines . Im a moka pot coffee lover but i want to get into this level of expresso machine cus cant get this stick and rich looking in the moka pit never thanks
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Does the coffe grind in the portafillter have to touch the shower head ? I can't get anyone to give me an answer...hopefully you can....can't wait to try the 9bar spring
@@jmoore9806 No J, in fact there SHOULD be some head space between the top of the puck and the shower screen. I'd say 3-4mm space is ideal. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thanks for letting me know.....but now I'm really confused..... evey time I give that 3mm gap between the shower screen I get more channeling....what gives ???
@@jmoore9806 Hey J, well channeling can be caused by many things. It mostly has to do with puck preparation. There's all kinds of videos about WDT and preparing your puck well. I saw a good one here: ruclips.net/video/m_6oU7fUODg/видео.html
Thank you. The most useful video on this subject I've come across. I would add a couple of comments :
1) The stainless steel lid slides out from the thin black lip at the front of the machine &
2) A 10mm spanner/wrench undoes the nut
Most helpful. Thanks.
Thank you for those observations, and thanks for watching! Happy coffee drinking! ☕️
Thank you Graeme. I was in the store. Forgot to measure but thanks to your comment I took the right spanner…
Very nice video ! A lot of Gaggia lovers talk about modifying to 9 bar spring. However, i have to say, my stock Gaggia Classic Evo Pro (model 2023) combined with my Eureka Mignon Spezialità produces extraordinary espresso, even compaired witg the best café's around here - 17 grams double shot extraction time about 30 seconds, depending on coffee. So i'm hesitating to change the spring!
Honestly, changing the spring just makes the machine a bit more tolerant, and can round the shots out, in my opinion.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner perhaps you're right, and perhsps i will replace the spring - risking the warrenty of the machine perhaps as well !
However thx again !
If you bought the machine in the USA, it is likely that it is equipped with a 9 bar spring.
@@dejedejsson IIRC Pro EVo is the new model with the spring installed but not if purchased much before and only the EVo model. From what I was reading/researching: you can swap the old spring back in and it is undetectable that the machine was modified and they're unlikely to refuse warranty service. That said you have to be very, very careful about leaving any residual water inside the unit (drips from replacing the spring) as you can easily short out the motherboard and then it's obvious you were tinkering with stuff.
Great video! One thing I noticed was that the brass fitting was on there good! I managed to get it off slowly without breaking the plastic housing but it looked like there was red thread lock used from the factory? It looks like there is room for a small O-ring, but I couldn't see that deteriorating into what was left. Be careful folks, it can take some muscle if your machine is a few years old like mine is!
Holy crap, I just did this, I knew there would be SOME difference, but I wasnt expecting this MUCH difference I got, even with relatively cheaper coffee I used for learning/experimenting. Best spent few pounds. Thanks for your video!
Awesome! I’m really happy to hear of your satisfied experience. It’s the best and easiest mod you can do in my opinion. 👍🏻
Hi, did you have to buy the spring elsewhere? It is not sold with the machine?
@@MsMoinet No these are not included, I bought them at shadesofcoffee, there is a link in the description of this video.
Very good proof.
The pressure gage install was perfect. I will do this to my classic, due in tomorrow.
Very nice, Tom! Thanks for your feedback. Will be curious how you like the mod! Cheers, Tom
Hey Tom - Thanks for the video - following your directions I changed out the stock spring to a 9 bar and I like it. IMO the espresso I’m making is definitely better! Kudos
Right on, Del! Thanks for sharing, and cheers! Tom
Now that we have the same Espresso Machine and Grinder I am going to follow your every video.
All right Leocanto, that sounds like a plan! 😉
Thanks to all your vids and guidance I now have far better coffee. I've changed the steam wand, switched to a naked portafilter, get the right amount of coffee into the basket, got all the accessories and now pretty decent crema. Now I'm being asked to make coffee for everyone at home in the mornings 😄😄😄.
Haha, join the club! I have automatically become the 'barista' as home as well. But it's fun, right?! 😉
Great, what a clear video! The fourth I've watched. If I'd watched yours first I would have only watched one ! Thank you.
Thanks for the feedback!
Great video Tom. I understand the 6 bar spring is used for turbo espressos but that mean a coarser ground and 7 to 15 sec extraction. The benefit is less channeling so better quality from shot to shot
Very cool, Rincon! I will have to look into a turbo espresso in the future. Have you ever tried one?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner the method was proposed by maths 2 years ago and it is based on formulas, physics etc. The common sense says it should taste bad but it doesnt !! I tried in a dedica and was very good in flavour but little weak as it needs higher ratio (15gr in 40 gr out)
@@a.rincon2748 Great! I will put it on my list to try in the future :)
Thank you for bringing the important items out of focus, so we can see them better
Yes, sorry about that. The auto focus darts around sometimes.
I made a follow up video, it is much shorter, and just focuses on the mod. The focus should be better here:
Gaggia Classic Pro 9-Bar OPV Mod | The Quick and Easy Way!
ruclips.net/video/Kyjpe3SdSsE/видео.html
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I watched the other video too. Gave a tumbs uo to both :)
1, from my experience that get better seal by add teflon tape to your pipe fitting and gauge then test the pressure, you won't get the swing on the gauge, and any leaks, even though it was little water drops will cause false reading on the gauge, 2, a lot of people would think your 9bar shot was good, no channeling, but there were channeling, take a look your espresso stream, it swings, that indicates there was uneven extraction going on in your puck, and if you look at the flow rate, that wasn't good neither, that's why I suggested that you learned how to mod it with adjustable OPV and as we learn espresso more, the 9bar might not be necessary one day, I got my Delonghi 310 at 7bar with 2.5ml/s flow rate, other 310 at 8.5bar 3.5ml/s, I got great results from it with light roasted beans, and I learned it a lot of espresso from Decent channel. The adjustable mod, I post it on home barista website, check it out, if you'd like.
Hey there, thanks for your critique. What's funny is that on some pressures, I got a good reading, and on others, the needle did vibrate a lot. I will try the plumber's tape next time - good tip.
I checked out your OVP thread for the ECO 310. That is pretty cool! Where did you find the OVP, and which fittings did you need? Definitely a cool mod.
By the way, the ECO 310 has a boiler right on top of the brew group. Do you get better brew temps with that machine, compared to the EC685, where there is a good 8" of hose between the thermoblock and brew group?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner 310 does get better brew temps than 685 for sure, and the OPV that I got wasn't made for espresso but water heater for shower, therefore it was cheaper from where I live. xD
@@checkwhatsleft4565 Thanks for that info - very cool. Those are some interesting experiments you've got on those threads. Where'd you get that pressure gauged portafilter for the 310?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner That was bit of pricey gauge, it was made of full stainless steal and high heat resistant(consider brew temp goes up, so I got this type of gauge), drill a hole in the middle of filter basket and pipe fitting from hardware store, I made it into QR type, so once the gauge unthread from the pipe fitting and that filter basket is able to remove, fitting onto others, like 685, so on so froth, I made a temperature scace device for that as well, same concept(QR). xD
@@checkwhatsleft4565 Hey there, thanks for that info. But I do not know what you mean by QR type? Can you explain a little more how you converted the portafilter to accept the pipe fitting from the hardware store? It is like a nut threaded on both sides, screwed on on the inside of the portafilter, with a gasket? A picture would be nice :) I would love to build one for the Dedica.
I'm just getting mine to the assistance as I have a couple of problems one of which is it has started to extract coffee in 4 seconds letting too much water come down, after which the water gets too much clear as if it wasn't able to extrect anymore - I buy grinded coffee from the same coffee shop and it's the same Costa Rica quality -. we'll see. After august the warranty will expire so I'll try to mod it. You've been very methodic and the video shows clearly the differences.
Having your own grinder though makes the biggest difference. Pre-ground coffee loses its freshness super fast. Cheers!
Cool video! Is it possible to mod the Delonghi Dedica this way?
I have heard that it is possible, and I plan to look into it. It’s more difficult to open the open pressure valve, and I do not believe they are any other aftermarket springs specifically designed for the Dedica, but the original spring can be shortened. I will look into this, and try to post a video in the upcoming months.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner nice, looking forward to watching that mod video 😁
@@xAzarathx Me too. I have an EC685 that I think needs a pump replacement anyway, so I can do both in one fell swoop!
I hope you can do the same for the dedica, i think is helpful for a lot of people! 😉
@@TomsCoffeeCorner It's a bit of a shame that there's no aftermarket spring for the Dedica. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in modding theirs
I have a possibly stupid question, but here it goes, I would be so happy if everyone contributed to the opinion. I am running a Gaggia Classic + Barazza Sette setup. Let's say I am using a regular Kimbo dark roast, just for the morning easy cappuccino, and I am using the Barazza Sette's 5E or 5F setting for grind size... Usually I found Kimbo very forgiving to extract, but I want to start playing with lighter roasts and more aromas.
What happens to my grind size in relation to the pressure. If I am using less pressure do I adjust my grind size relatively? Should I go coarser? Let me explain more.
I have been experimenting with specialty coffee, but I just cannot pull a good espresso. It is sour, bitter, underextracted, although the flowing coffee looks creamy and velvety, the taste is bitter and underextracted. I get channeling, or at the bottom of the portafilter, the coffee is well compacted but on the higher levels the water gets in the middle, so it is a coffee, water, coffee and group head filter sandwich...
So, the question is. When I do this mod that I am going to do, how should I adjust my grind size? Any tip with channeling - bad extraction welcomed.
thanks.
I'd really love to see something like this on the ECP-3420. Either that or a dimmer/gauge mod.
Could these springs (or something similar) be used in the new Gaggia Espresso Style or Deluxe? That could make a huge difference to an already great priced unit.
Yes, they fit. I'm experimenting with them right now.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner That's very interesting. Be good to see the results.
Hi and thanks for the video
Have you tried cutting the original spring ?
Question:
I have a Gaggia Classic that on the outside, looks exactly like the unit shown in this video, but looking inside, most everything is the same, EXCEPT there is NO OPV mounted on the pump outlet.
The plumbing diagram I managed to locate shows the OPV mounted directly to the group head, and there is a valve there with a black hose running to the water tank...
So the question is: does the valve I have use the same spring that pump-mounted valve on the unit in your video does?
Hey interesting video what does the 9 bar do to the espresso taste wise compared to the original one. Thanks in advance
Hi Tom. Thank you for this excellent vid .... especially the great idea to just pull out the OPV tube. Well done! Would you ever consider just cutting the standard OPV spring? I think I have seen video's where people just cut it.
Hey Lama! No, I wouldn’t recommend doing that. I feel like the springs are designed for their lengths based on their tension. I tried shortening the spring in the Dedica, and was not so satisfied with the results. Perhaps it’s different with the classic pro, but I have not tried myself. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
Hi Tom. I stumbled on this video while learning all I can on YT about the Gaggiuino Project. I'm interested in buying and modding a Gaggia Classic Pro, because I'm tired of maintaining my ancient Pasquini Livia 90. My initial take on your 9 bar spring video, since I'm so accustomed to my Livia 90, is that perhaps I don't need all the fancy-shmancy stuff associated with the Gaggiuino Project, and could make some minimal mods to the Gaggia Classic Pro that will more than satisfy my simple espresso needs. What do you think? And what other SIMPLE brew enhancing mods can you suggest for the Gaggia Classic Pro along the same lines? Great video, BTW.
Thanks a lot
I mean, the Gagguino mod is a lot of work. That's why I haven't done it yet. It would be SO much footage to take, then edit.
The 9 bar mod is the best one IMHO, and I think most will be happy with it. The Gagguino allows you to adjust flow rate on the fly, to emulate other machines, like levers for instance. So if you want to nerd out, the Gaggunino is sweet. If you just want a good espresso, I'd suggest the 9 bar. And a nice bottomless PF for diagnosing shots. And an IMS basket. Cheers!
Just ordered springs and bottomless filter from shadowsofcoffee. Decided not to buy PID, since stock coffee is quite good for me. Never tried "temperature surfing", probably, I'm loosing something from unstable temperature, but I don't see real reason to do that and springs sounded more reasonable to change.
The 9 bar spring is the best bang for your buck mod on this machine. Enjoy!
Both the 9 and 6.5 looked like they blonded a lot more than the first shot which looked darker and juicier for longer. But I understand the the 6.5 is supposed be have better taste and extraction overall
Thanks Tom. I've had the Shades springs for months, but haven't done the installation yet. I had assumed I would need to adjust to a coarser grind once I installed the 9 bar spring, but you kept your grind the same, correct? Was the timing for the extraction about the same? If so, that seems counter-intuitive to me. Just curious if you can confirm those details. Thanks! 👍
Hey Bob, I did keep the grind the same for all of the springs. The extraction times seemed similar, however I plan to do a more accurate test in the future, comparing the extraction time between pressures, with the same 2:1 yield.
This first test, is just to kind of show how the extraction looks different based on the pressure, and what bearing pressure might have on taste.
incorrect, you can grind finer with less pressure because you are not limited by overpressure where coffee gets compounded by water
So I installed the 9 bar spring this morning. It turns out my grind had to be very very slightly coarser. Like Tom, I've a Eureka grinder with the "infinite" adjustment knob which, as anyone with a Eureka knows, is maddeningly imprecise. If I was at a 3 on the dial with factory pressure, I'm at about 3.1 (coarser grind) with the 9 bar spring installed. I'm getting the same 1:2 extraction in 28 seconds with that slight tweak -- but to my surprise, it's almost not worth making. One thing I'm no longer doing is the "Gaggia pre-infusion hack". With factory pressure, to avoid channeling, I used to believe the pre-infusion hack was needed. My theory now is that pre-infusion might not be necessary since there's less pressure. Time will tell. Enjoying my double shot of Lavazza Gold.
@@BobMacNeal Thanks for that feedback, Bob! I am curious to hear how you like the results in the upcoming days, with the 9 bar spring. Cheers!
@@BobMacNeal any feedback on this? I am still on the fence whether to change to 9 bar spring or not. your feedback will be much appreciated
Thanks Tom just installed a 9 bar spring . With your help.
Hi Tom! It looks like you've modified the stock Gaggia portafilter by unscrewing the spouts and adding a pressure gauge. I'm wondering if you can provide any details on this modification--in particular, what adapter you used to go from the thread on the portafilter to the thread on the gauge. Thanks!
Hey Michael, there was no adapter necessary. The manometer was made to fit the spout on the Gaggia. It’s a standard thread. Cheers! ☕️
I did that with mine, i used two adapters so that everything fits together. I went to a hardware store, in two minutes they found the right parts. Cost me two euros from memory.
Was there any other change in the shot other than mouth feel from 12.5 to 9 bar spring?
That’s a good question, Alex. So far I only did one trial each. I will have to do some more testing, and report back to you. Maybe some other people can write their experiences here as well. 👍🏻
If you look visually, you will see that the 12 bar spring creates a MUCH larger cone on the extraction, than the 9 bar. It is also biased towards the back of the shower screen. With the 9 bar mod, the cone stays more centralized. Must have something to do with the pressure and flow penetrating the shower screen.
9 bar is much more reliable, repeatable, and consistent. I've had shots as good from 12.5 bar, but not so many
great video! where can i find Springs for Krups Virtuoso coffee?
Sorry David, I don't know that. To me that looks like a machine that probably was not designed to be modified. Cheers!
It would be informative to document the extraction times for the different pressures - I assume you are extracting the same amount of liquid each time and extending the extraction times as the pressure goes down.
Hey Tom, that’s a good point. For this video, my main intention was to show how to change the springs, and their respective pressure reading with the pressure gauge.
Maybe I’ll do a more extensive test, comparing the extractions more closely. But of course you’re right, a lower pressure should extend the extraction time.
Thanks for the video, will the 9 bar spring work in an older model thats not a Pro such as the RI8161/40?
One question. If it is that easy to install, why the producers don’t put 9 bar springs by default?
Good question - I am not really sure.
Hello, great video , 1 question pls , did you notice any sound change of the machine? Did it get a bit louder with 9 bar spring? Thank you
No, I don't think so. At least I didn't notice any difference.
Do you notice any change in steam wand pressure after the spring install?
No, I didn't.
hello great video, how could I get that cream with a dedicate and a naked portafilter? thx
How to get crema: ruclips.net/video/00NSG9459a8/видео.html
Thanks for the video Tom! I followed it and it helped me to change to 9 bar spring in my Gaggia classic pro. Do you perhaps have any idea why after I changed to 9 bar spring, started grinding even finer, I still have very fast flow at around 4 ml per second? Thanks in advance!
Hi Emil! I made this video specifically to answer your question: ruclips.net/video/piO6c695Op8/видео.html
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thank you Tom!
I wonder how much confirmation bias and just in general the placebo effect have a role in all of this :)
Not saying its one way or the other. However, flow rate is prob the most important factor in all of this, and a slightly higher pressure can be offset by slightly finer grind
I think the argument of how the cone looks is kinda invalid, since you can produce that cone with 15bar as well. It is however, a popular mod, and quite easy to do.
I feel like it makes shots more consistent, and less prone to channeling. I also have an older Delonghi ECP, where I think the pump is losing compression, and I prefer those shots, because I think the pressure in the system is 7-8 bars. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner yeah, you are probably right. Do you know if doing this affects the steam pressure in the wand? It should, right? At least in theory
I was thinking the same thing. Results need a blind test, there is a lot of confirmation bias and placebo going on. Bu I feel that happens a lot in the coffee world in general.
Great video, but I wish you had showed the 12 bar spring that took out, for comparison.
Hey Anthony, do you mean just show this spring as it looks? I could do that in an upcoming video. It looks pretty similar, but I think the wire strength is a bit higher.
What’s the difference with the espresso produced with the factory spring versus the 9 and 6? I own a Casabrew which came with pressurized basket, but it pulls terrible shoots with a bottomless filter.
Espresso is so beautiful
Thank you Tom for the great video! I'm wondering if the OPV spring has to be a food grade spring or any spring can do?
I am guessing it should be food grade. I ordered mine from Shades of Coffee, and I hope they are using food grade springs. Cheers!
Very well done video, thank you. So the 6.5 is basically overkill?
Thank you! Well, some people use the 6.5 for turbo shots, but I prefer the 9 bar so far. Cheers!
What's the pressurized tester called and where can I get one?
A "portafilter pressure gauge" 👍
www.edesiaespress.com/portafilter-pressure-gauge-tester-for-coffee-espresso-machines/
Hi Tom, didn't you try adjustable opv kit, i.e. for vibieme? I know there is no room for it (add another 40mm in line) and it is pricey (whole kit cost 35 euros exc. shipping) but can be precisely adjusted.
Hi there! I didn't look into an adjustable one, as I wanted a simple and accessible mod to display. But I am sure that an adjustable OPV is a little nicer to have installed, if you want to experiment with differing pressures. Cheers! Tom
amazing video! thanks a lot man, i will test too.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing. Great mod!! I gotta try it.
You betcha, Tim! Have fun experimenting!
Hi! Thanks for the video! I just decided to change the spring on my GCP!!! quick question, you did provide a link from ebay and one from Shades of coffee.... do you think those springs from ebay are as good as those from Mrs. Shades? are those tested? Which one did you use?
Hi there! I listed the eBay springs for North American customers, to save time and money. The seller has excellent feedback, and lists his springs as high quality food grade stainless steel. 👍 Even the Shades website does not mention stainless steel or food grade, fyi.
Thank you so much for this! Can’t wait to do this to much machine! 😊
I wanted to try this out, but my machine(SAACHI NL-COF-7055 ESPRESSO MACHINE ) has the spring pressure valve right above the head gasket(Just above the portafilter area). What would you recommend I do to get the right pressure for my espresso.
Really appreciate everything you have done!!!
Sorry, I do not know this machine... :(
Great vid! I like your style
What size is the wrench? 🔧
10 mm. Closest in SAE is 3/8"
Can you do it with the la specialista arte?
Nope
Wouldn’t if be easier if when ordering a Gaggia Classic Pro, upon making the order, Gaggia gave you the option of a 9 Bar spring without going to the trouble of taking the Gaggia Classic Pro apart to install a 9 Bar spring?
What is the 9bar OVP needed for? Does gaggia evo have this spring? 15 bar is foreseen in its own manual but what does it have to do with 9bar OVP? Is espresso ideally made at 9bar?
Espresso is meant to be extracted at 9 bar. In some markets, the new Evo comes with a 9 bar OPV spring. But I guess not in all markets...cheers!
Any advice or video on how to remove the safety valve where the pink pipe is connected? I broke the plastic as I was unscrewing the OPV. I ordered a new 11bar pump safety valve.
Do you mean the orange braided hose? If so, do you mean where it gets attached to the boiler?
Hi Tom, what was the shot time between the 3 test?
That is a good question, that has been posed here before. You can follow the timeline of the video, but maybe I will just make a follow up video in the near future. 😉
so, what is the "verdict" ?
which one is the best ?
I like 9 bar the best.
Hi dear, If coffee should stay around 9bar, between 7bar and 11bar (as I read), why to buy 6bar spring?
So, I think you don't really need to buy a new spring because the bolt work as settable OPV. If you unscrew very little you can reduce the pressure, but, you've absolutely put sealing teflon tape around screw thread to avoid water leaks. I did this years ago with original old plastic OPV (11bar), now I've "new" model like your, but is the same thing, i think, only for more pressure, 14/15 bar, I think.
How should I measure the pressure? With filter inserted, with filter and coffee inserted or without filter or coffee? Because I've same pressure gauge (also same graduated glass :-) ) and I noticed the pressure is a little different with different setups.
I want set my new OPV but the bolt is very tight and I'm unsure about pressure measurement setup...
Hey Tron! I believe the older models had adjustable OPVs. But the newer one doesn’t. Therefore, the springs.
I think it’s debatable, how to measure the pressure. If you measure it as I did here, that is the max pressure. If you have an in-line manometer, then that should be the actual brew pressure.
Cheers!
Could you change the grind size more coarse or fine to accommodate the different springs and essentially get the similar taste to each other? Like, produce the same results between a 9 bar and 6 bar spring by changing the grind size??
Haha, that's a good question. I have to admit that I probably don't have the taste palate for that, but I bet someone who does could answer that question. Certainly, you could mimic the times based on grind size, but the shot tasting is kind of subjective, and subject to the taster's preferences and palate.
Hi Tom, thanks for the video. Can you tell me if that springs would fit on a Gaggia Espresso Dose? Do you know this model? I think it's the same hardware as Gaggia Color.
Oh boy, I really don’t know. Even within the same model, they often go through manufacturing changes. Some of the Gaggia models even have an OPV that can be adjusted without changing the spring, but rather mechanically.
If you open up your machine and take a look, maybe you will find out. 👍🏻
Hi, Tom. I have a question: with dimmer mod is necessary change the spring, since with control of water flow you can manage the pressure?
Another question, I’m not fell confident to do dimmer mod, but change the spring for 9bar it’s ok. So, the difference between just change a spring for a 9bar and dimmer mod, in taste, is large, since with dimmer mod you can do pre-infusion?
I think the 9 bar mod is the most sensible of the two. The thing is, most cheap dimmers are not super linear, and therefore do not deliver the same flow each time. I just keep my pump turned on the whole time now. The 9 bar spring is just a one and done.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thanks a lot for your feedback. Another one: all this without PID, jus 9 bar spring?
Dear Tom, do you know if the Evo Pro comes to Europe market with 9bar spring already installed or do I have to do it myself? Also I am looking for bottomless portafilter, what model do you have?
Honestly, I don't know. Whole latte love seems to have a special 'in' with the company. I see that they are now selling the new Classic Pro E24, with a brass boiler. I cannot find it anywhere else on the internet. So, I don't know if models sold in the EU also come with the 9 bar spring as the WLL ones do. But, it's a super simple mod.
Great vid. Any idea how to get a better cone shaped extraction? I have a Bartaza Sette 270 grinder and have tried all the grind sizes, I've tried WDT , temp surfing, pre infusion, and still an not able to get a full cone shaped shit. Any idea what I should do? Kind of upsetting since the shots taste fine but I wonder if something else may be up...
Hey Alexey, thanks for the question. It sounds like you have exhausted all variables. Have you checked into your beans? Have a look at this video I made about this topic: ruclips.net/video/5BgMKqu8fJI/видео.html
Hi Tom. Thanks for the video. I did the 9 bar spring. Unfortunately, I broke the orange nylon cover hose underneath the spring hose. Any suggestions?
Ah shoot! You might need a replacement of the hose, unless you can cut it a little shorter and stick it on. www.juraprofi.de/Ersatzteile-fuer-Gaggia-Kaffeevollautomaten/RI9480-New-Classic/Schlaeuche-Verbinder.html?ts=24_1693_18
Hi Tom, Where did you get the Portafilter with pressure gauge?
Here you go: geni.us/PFManometer
Great video , thank you for explaining and the instructions! 👍
My pleasure! Have fun experimenting!
Hi.Tom, May i know what was your grind setting of specialita? 2? Thanks!
Oh, I was about 2 numbers off of the calibration point, with freshly roasted beans. It's about 1 number off of calibration with older beans.
New here! I have a question, can I use the 9 bar opv spring to other espresso machines?
No, it is a big fat spring, so it will only fit in the OPV for which it was designed.
Pretty interesting but I don't understand: How a spring can be responsible for the pressure? How this works?
The spring is responsible for the maximum pressure allowed in the system. A 12 bar spring will first divert water back to the tank once the pressure hits circa 12 bar. A 9 bar spring will do it already at 9 bar, and so on. The spring in the OPV is really a safety gate, to not allow the pressure to get too high in the system. It is set at 12 bar from the factory, but ideally it should be lower for better espresso. Cheers!
Hi Tom, I make latte and I can't taste the difference between the 9 bar and the stock. Is this more for pure espresso drinking?
Yes, exactly. You won't notice much difference in milk based drinks. Kind of like adding coke to whiskey, in a cocktail.
Awesome video! I was experiencing really extraction flow despite grinding my light roast beans with a Eureka Mignon Silenzio at “zero” point. In fact, I ground the beans when the burrs were slightly chirping. I had 18 grams in and 80 grams out in 30 seconds. I changed my OPV bar on my GCP to 9 bar hoping that it would slow down but it didn’t.
Any suggestions on what else to do? Is my Eureka or GCP defective? They are both brand new.
Hey Enrique! That definitely sounds out of whack. You should not be getting that much output in 30 seconds. If you are grinding near the zero point, you should just about be choking your espresso machine. By the way, even with the 12 bar spring, I still got my output at a 2:1 ratio in about 25 seconds.
Perhaps the burrs on your grinder are misaligned. I can’t imagine that your espresso machine is putting out too much pressure. Unless of course, you were just in steam mode. In that case, you will get a huge output very quickly.
Could you make a video and post the link here?
Cheers ☕️
Tom 🙋♂️
@@TomsCoffeeCorner ah maybe that's the answer to my problem. I've been switching to steam for twenty seconds before pulling my shot because i saw a YT video saying it helps with pulling hot enough water, but it results in crazy flow rate even with the 5 bar spring. I shall experiment...
@@pierrex3226 oh no, don't do that! It will be fully up to steam temp by then, and the extraction will be like lava, and be burnt. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I stopped doing that, I still get shots that are too fast. I've run out of variables to control. I use a scale (18g), a calibrated grinder on the finest setting, a puck screen, bottomless portafilter to make sure i dont have channelling (i use a dispersing needle, a good tamper), a clean machine, filtered water, a machine warmed up for 15min, different beans, i tried all the springs from shades of coffee, and i still get a shot in about 12 seconds.
@@pierrex3226 Too fine grind forces water to channel thus passing through faster. It is counterintuitive but try to grind coarser to fix the issue
Hi, a rather important curiosity... what happens if after the modification with a spring change from 15 to 9 I occasionally use the standard pressurized filter holder? does it work anyway? Does that improve too or can I throw it away?
The original spring is actually 12 bar, and you can still do pressurized, but you might need to grind slightly coarser for it.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner meanwhile thanks for the quick reply...since you are kind I have another question...and if I don't modify, then I leave the original spring and use the bottomless...can it slow down with a double steel disc above and below as well as fine grinding? do I avoid splashes?
Hi Tom, I have a Dedica 685, I’m wondering if the 9 bar spring you demonstrated could be modified to fit the Dedica?
Hey Andrew, I am going to release a video soon where I experiment with springs on the Dedica. Thanks!
That is SO interesting. I didn't realize the Gaggia Classic PRO had a different pressure mechanism than the original Gaggia Classic. With the original to adjust the pressure you pull that hose off of a brass fitting, remove the fitting with a 3/4" socket, then use a 5mm (or is it 4mm) allen key and turn the allen screw counter clockwise to relieve pressure. Then quick reassemble. No changing springs. That is quite different. Now I'm not so sure about the Classic Pro model, but for my original version I bought a PID kit for about $125 from a private party and installed it myself. So much better than temp surfing because of the temp consistency. The weak link of the Gaggia Classic is still the small boiler.
Hey Gero, yes some machines over the years have had an adjustable OPV. That is a nice feature! I agree about the PID and small boiler. But for the latter, at least it heats up quickly! Cheers! ☕️
Hello! what is the length of the spring at 6.5bar?
Do I also need to change the 685 to 9 bar if I use a bottomless holder? Or press harder
No. I have measured the EC685 to max out at 11 bar, but with a normal coffee puck, it's more like 8-9 bar that the Dedica provides. Check this out: ruclips.net/video/Scsm9Vw6JrA/видео.html
I had a mid 90s Gaggia classic bought it new I returned for repairs and they gave me someone else’s machine back I got my cash back . Few years ago I bought a automatic bean to cup refurbished ended up binned
I have a 20bar dualit machine it’s got 51mm pressure baskets I found a none pressure one … is it worth buying a £170 is sage pro grinder and hopefully getting a Gaggia classic in the future have you any views
Hello Barry. I have never heard of Dualit, but a GCP and Sage grinder will get you some excellent espresso. 👍🏻
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thank u for replying waiting for the grinder to come on 20percnt off and get it if and when I get the Gaggia pro will do the 9bar mod
Hi, I have the older model and I prepare my pressure gauge but, when I start the pump, there's a lot of leaks from the rubber seal. I change it for a new one, silicone, but still the same (and seal dims are correct). I really don't understand what's going on here...
Do you mean at the group head? It's hard to maintain a good seal when testing max pressure. Good luck!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Yes, just right there... The seal height is 8.5mm as far as I know. A taller seal will solve the problema but, I think they're not available.
I'm wondering if the problem I'm having with my Gaggia Classic is due to the pressure spring. Once I turn on my machine and wait for the brew light, the first shot seems to pull okay. But if I were to prepare another shot, the second one literally gushes out of the portafilter and it pulls in half the time it should, as well as weak crema. I'm thinking there is way too much pressure but no one else doing this mod seems to be having this issue. Your shot seemed to pull just fine at 12 bars. I ordered a 9 bar spring and it actually just delivered to my house as I was watching this video. I'm hoping this fixes that issue
I cannot imagine there being such a difference between shots, at least I have not seen such a thing. Do you go to steam mode in between? Because that would make a big difference. Cheers!
Good and informative video. I've had my GCP for about three weeks now. I've been considering the OPV mod but decided to wait a few months. I want to get familiar with the way it is now and then I'll know if the change makes a difference.
Do you have a bottomless portafilter? The difference in the extraction is visually pretty obvious, because the cone shapes differ. With 12 bars, it’s a larger cone, and it’s biased towards the back, at least on my machine. The extraction with nine bar has a smaller cone, and is a little slower.
I think it’s a good, and also very easy modification to do. Just beware, that you may get charged import duties, depending on where you live, since this is from the UK. Not if you live in America though. In America, imports are generally duty-free up to $800. 🤗
Don't do this to yourself! 9 bar is so much easier to dial, the window is so much wider and feedback goes on the right direction. Just do it With oem 12.5 bar you can get opposite results on grind and dose (maybe due to fines migration and/or puck conpression) and constantly battle to dial a coffee. 9 bar is the industry standard for a reason
@@ylleKkcirtaPnadnerB I'd go down to 6.5 bar. Even better, especially in the home market where you might lack the knowledge, technique or just equipement. That 6. 5 will provide even more forgiveness.
I've had my GCP for a month and using the spouted portafilter everything was great! Now that I'm using a bottomless the coffee sprays everywhere and super fast extraction.
I did this mod recently and the pressure seems to be lower than factory one. As I would love to know the pressure precisely, I wonder where can I buy this manometer (gauge measuring) device from the video? (ideally in Germany, as UK is no longer part of EU and custom/DHL costs may be ridiculously high now).
I got the manometer from Edesia, but they're in England. Sorry!
Grind size, time, ratio, aaaaaaaand pressure. BTW I think the advertised default pressure for GCP is around 14-15. Is the 12.5 you measured accurate?
I think it's pretty accurate, but I am sure there's a little tolerance in those numbers. I mean 14-15 is super high. Cheers!
I know a taste test is subjective and personal, and all we can go by is your reaction, but it seems to me that using the same grind settings is a flawed test. Surely in the real world you adjust your grind setting for the best taste, so using the same setting when you know that extraction time will be affected, and therefore presumably taste will be affected provides you only with a literal comparison between two shots, and not the potential improvement that is possible with the change in bar pressure. If you adjust grind for the best taste in both cases, what is the outcome? Probably a lot more subtle! Do you find that you're still aiming for the same extraction target time for the best taste, or does it shift based on the lower pressure?
Still, thanks for the demo, and especially showing changing out the spring. I have to take my Gaggia apart to deal with a leak, and I'm going to take the opportunity of trying the 9 bar spring.
The Mr.Rogers of coffee education.
is this possible with the apex?
No, you'd have to add an OPV first.
Hy I just found your channel.
I do not understand how does this work, and I have an extensive engineering background (credits are a must these days - everybody is an expert). The brewing backpressure is determined directly by the portafilter, I almost can guarantee you never hit 12 bar during extraction with your modified portafilter, even with the original spring. With original pressurized portafilter, yes - I can agree, but not with the one shown here.
You can check if there is flow through the transparent hose, during a normal brewing.
Have you noticed faster or slower brewing time with the current setup?
Hey Octav, you are right about that. The pressures shown are the maximum pressures. With a coffee puck, the pressure will likely be less. I believe the extraction times are similar as well, but I plan to do a video in the future doing a closer comparison.
Thanks for watching!
Tom
One more thing however. When using a spring lower than the typical pressure, then the pressurized water will be shunted back to the water tank before being allowed to reach a higher pressure. In those cases, it should alter the extraction. I’m referring to the 6.5 bar spring for example.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Correct. 6-6.5 bar seems lower than the expected brewing pressure. However, as you know things are not that simple, the flow changes during extraction due to puck becoming more or less permeable and so on. I believe you can best check if the overpressure valve opens during extraction, or maybe installing a pressure gauge before the mentioned valve. Might be tricky though
@@OctavMandru Yes, 6 bar is lower than the average extraction of 8-9 bar, which means that the max pressure to the puck should be limited to 6 bar. Of course, we cannot see the water flow back into the tank very easily, but that must be what happens. I have seen it happen in my Dedica experiment, where I cut the spring shorter.
Hi Tom, I have a breville barista express machine. I was thinking of using the dimmer switch hack to Reduce the pressure between the 2 methods which would you go for?
Hello Michael, that's a good question! As I understand it, these two methods are different in methodology and operation.
For the spring mod, you are limiting or capping the maximum pressure applied to the brew group.
With the dimmer (as I understand), you are adjusting the voltage to the pump itself, allowing dynamic control of the pressure throughout the whole process.
I have not experimented yet with the second method, but I do believe it will require a learning curve, like using a paddle machine (Slayer, Bianca, etc).
In summary, I think both have their merit, and their fun in experimenting!
Cheers,
Tom
It seems evident to me after employing the dimmer you don’t have to bother with the OPV spring. But if you do not add the dimmer reducing pressure from 15 to 9 bar is a huge improvement. ruclips.net/video/val-K-Z_YCM/видео.html
Does all these similar mashines got same spring pressure system? I have a Saeco Aroma and also want to lower pressure - but sotn find any info or kit to my mashine.
No, the over pressure valves very greatly between manufacturers...
Tom, I just got this. Any benefits to upgrading my portafilter basket? I have the gaggia branded oem naked portafilter.
Oh yes, the precision basket is nicer than the stock basket. James Hoffman has made a video dedicated just to that.
Did you also taste 12.5bar version espresso? I wonder how that tasted
Yes, I in fact have that one currently installed, because I want to make another video with all springs. It tastes fine, but for my palate the 9 bar spring seemed to allow for a more rounded extraction, somewhat smoother.
Hey Tom! Is it possible for you to do one on cutting the original springs vs the 9 bar shades springs? That would be interesting!
Hey Norman, I suppose that would be interesting to see if the result can be duplicated by cutting the spring, and filing it so that there's no sharp edges. I will perhaps do that in a future video. Cheers! Tom
Will it work with Gaggia Espresso Evolution (around 2015)? Thank you.
I haven't seen the inside of that machine, but I am thinking not. If you can open it up, then you'll see if it looks similar or not...
So if I'm about to buy a new Gaggia and I wanna install the new spring right from the beginning, I also have to purchase a different basket right away? If yes, which one? I know it's 58mm, but ... which type do I need?
No, you can use the stock basket. Cheers!
I've wondered about this. I wonder if my machine has a 12 bar for that reason - pressurized basket. I have an old Gaggia Baby from 2000 that, I felt, was way too strong and would always be so touchy with blowing through my pucks and a lot of spraying even with very, very careful distribution and good level/weight tamping techniques. I ended up installing a trailing edge dimmer switch to the power going to the pump, which has an automatic soft-start built into it, and it made SO much of a difference. I might have to see if I can get a 9Bar spring for it, just so I can rule out it over-pressurizing.
That’s very cool, William! Where did you get the trailing edge dimmer switch from? Could you post a link? I’m curious.
How did the dimmer switch affect the taste of your shots?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Being an Aussie, from the one place that has everything - Bunnings! General hardware stores that stock lighting equipment, switches and accessories for houses, should have rotary dimmer switches in stock. What is important is the TYPE of dimmer switch, because it has to be a leading edge dimmer. They trim the AC wave form from the front (which is why it's called a "leading edge" dimmer). I am pretty certain it is the one from the following link, however they look differently depending on the manufacturer. What is important that it is a Leading Edge rotary dimmer, with a minimum of 10 watts. The ULKA vibe pumps are 48Watts, I believe! SECOND LINK, is what the dimmer looks like inside the switch block. My dimmer kit: www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-leading-edge-light-dimmer_p4330550 What it looks like without face plate; hpm.com.au/product/250va-leading-edge-rotary-dimmer-standard/
@@TomsCoffeeCorner And it was revolutionary for my shots! Before the modification, my method of pulling a shot on the Gaggia Baby involved a pre-flush to release built up pressure from the boiler heating up, then I'd lock in the portafilter holder with my prepped puck. A gentle press of the brew button would open the solenoid but not start the pump, venting any extra pressure, then I'd full press and begin the brew. But even with meticulous prep of my tamp, every few shots, that sudden kick of the pump would shoot water into my puck and cause channeling. When I added the dimmer switch, this stopped completely with the soft-start on the dimmer switch, and the pump even sounds like it takes a half second or so to ramp up to full power. The dimmer switch also allows me to reduce the water flow speed, without affecting the OPV pressure valve. I added a switch as well, so I could open the solenoid but not power the pump. 100% success rate on my shots, and I fell in love with Espresso again, now that I wasn't pulling my hair out every other shot. 🤣
@@willthedingo VERY cool, Wiliam - thanks for that info! I will refer back to this thread when I do the dimmer mod. Never heard of Bunnings. Is it any thing like Lowes or Home Depot in America? Cheers! Tom
@@willthedingo Hey William, thanks for sharing your experience here. It sounds like a worthy mod, and something I would like to try in the future. I bet it would be cool on both the Gaggia and the Dedica, too. Cheers! ☕ 🙋🏼♂
I have Gaggia Carezza Deluxe. Is it possible to change opv spring like you did in this model?
I have never seen that one in person, but I kind of doubt it. Most machines in that price range have more of a safety valve, rather than an adjustable OPV...
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thank you 👍
Hi Tom, I have the 2002 gaggia classic. Where can I buy the 9 bar spring to fit?
Many thanks
Scott
Hi Scott, I am not familiar with that model. Some of them however had adjustable OPVs. Have you opened it up to take a look? Cheers! Tom
Is it we can brew finer coffee with a 9 bar spring?
Yes, the lower the pressure, the finer you can grind.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner thanks Tom, but somehow my gaggia still takes a longer time to brew finer coffee with a 9-bar spring
What type of bean and name and flavor of coffee for this type of machines . Im a moka pot coffee lover but i want to get into this level of expresso machine cus cant get this stick and rich looking in the moka pit never thanks
Hi! I believe I used Dinzler Roma beans here, or perhaps Lavazza Espresso (purple bag). Cheers!
Hi
Question is why you loaded 15,5 gram of coffee to the basket with capacity of 18,0 gram basket ?
Hey it’s actually a 16g basket I was using.