J.P. Stern on Nietzsche: Section 1
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Vehement repudiation of Christian and liberal ethics; the detestation of democratic ideals; the celebration of the "superman"; the death of God; and a life-affirming "will to power" are the philosophical legacies of Friedrich Nietzsche. In this program, Nietzsche philosopher J.P. Stern discusses these concepts as the genesis of existentialism, and as the root philosophies of fascist political movements.
They really, really should do a new show with this premise. It's an excellent way of approaching the individual philosophers and understand their basic ideas
Well Bryan at the end of his life was confident that it would be work and still be popular!
@@VladVexler Thanks! 8 years later :-)!
Very interesting. I had the privilege of going to Professor Stern's lectures when at Cambridge in the early 1970s and always admied his precise comment on complex matters.
Thank you !
One point of contention - Stearn says Nietzsche was for the 'elan' rather than the common herd, but that was not the case, he was against keeping exceptional people down with herd rules. Near the end Stern says this again, rephrased, but Nietzsche was also wanted to wake the herd up with a prod (a virtual cattle prod). Did he succeed? No - the herd only listens to power and celebrity, and Nietzsche lacked the necessary hype, and it wasn't in his nature to seek it.
Beyond Good and Evil can be summed up with a Napoleon Quote : "To every circumstance its own law."
A good discussion on Nietzsche, a rarity.
I enjoy reading N. May I advise one also read a biography of N. It turns out that the man was depressed, perhaps manic-depressed, and depression changes one's perspectives towards the negative. Persons mired in depression have difficulty separating their depressed views from those they would have if not depressed. To his credit, at least he did recommend a positive outlook, though he never acheived that to any significant degree in his own life. Western Atheism often accompanies depression.
You don't see programs like this on TV nowadays.
Not overcoming but having the strength to be yourself and living without resentment.
We've just found an hour long interview with German TV by J P STERN and would like to find someone to translate it. It's on VHS from 1989 on the subject of Wittgenstein who was a friend of Peter's in Cambridge in the 1950s - If anyone is interested in helping please let me know? (posted by his daughter)
Ironically, Nietzsche despised the 'weak' and their apparent moral law making but in a physical tussle with the great metaphysical thinker, wrestler and moral corner-stone that is Plato, he would have found himself in a head lock at the hands of the Greek, in no time.
Fatalism means that we are able to choose certain things in life but at the same time we recognise that the things we choose are limited and quite predictable. (Not determined) Why? Because of our upringing, health and so on that we haven't chosen.
I have read several books by N. and different scholars books about him. My theory of why he doesn't describe the lord and slave moral well enough is because it's controversial. Even to this day. One clear examples of that is one of the philosophical doc series I found on RUclips. Everything they said about N's philosophy was that it embraced "hardship". His writings was mainly about power dynamics. I am actually writing on a book were I describe modern lord and slave moral in detail.
I don't think they describe Nietzsches moral philosophy well enough, but I don't blame them. His writings is quite cryptic. I think he meant that Christian moral and herd mentality is rooted in a giant "tall poppy"-syndrome tradition. Chapter 9 "What is noble?", in "Beyond Good and Evil", is one of the best sources to understand it.
Whe are born with certain talents for music, languages and so on. We are free to develop our virtues but we can not choose them. To become yourself is to have courage and determination to cultivate yourself to the maximum.
@FaaarLeft I read Zarathustra at least once a year. It is the top of my favorite non fiction books. All his books are worth reading and rereading. Every time I read Zarathustra, Antichrist, Beyond Good and Evil, etc. I always see omething new. I am no scholar so I do not pretend to understand everything, but I think that what brings me back to the books again and again and they yield more wisdom each time. Nietzsche should be taught in school.
@bayreuth79 Tolstoy also thought that Shakespeare was "...that the unquestionable glory of a great genius which Shakespeare enjoys, and which compels writers of our time to imitate him and readers and spectators to discover in him non-existent merits,-thereby distorting their esthetic and ethical understanding,-is a great evil, as is every untruth."
@ismokereefer "Élan vital", a french term coined by French Philosopher Henry Bergson, and it´s usually translated as "vital impetus" or "vital force."
have to love Nietzsche
Well argued.
cuz she loved Nietzsche
her whole essay "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal" is an extension of a single Nietzsche quote: "The modern European now stands between 2 opposing ideals: Capitalism and Altruism."
Thanks for posting this.
Nietzsche was a Fatalist in ancient Greek sense and not a determinist. It means he thought that you can not escape your destiny (Edipus) but you can choose the path.
@FaaarLeft
I read the book for the 5th time these days and must say that it won't be the last time, because I noticed that I missed a lot the times before. It is impossible to get all out of the book in one of two reads. It is so extremely dense and full of ideas and pictures, that it is lecture for years, if not for a whole life. All of Nietzsche's books are "holy shit" and mind blowing, in particular, if I read them the 2nd etc. time(s). I plan to buy an edition of this letters...
the Beeb, I think in the mid-1980s. (No commercials see!)
thank you for posting
Nietzsche did not have syphilis, but rather suffered a massive cerebral stroke. This is obvious to anyone familiar with the details of his sudden collapse, anyone, that is, possessing a good medical background. The reason for the legend of his "syphilis" is a humorous and harmless bit of popular slander.
I have read all of The Antichrist and half of On The Genealogy of Morals and he is truly incredible. Would someone please tell me if his conclusions on morality have ever been disproven?
It's badly worded, but the idea is rooted in the pre-Socratic idea of 'everything being in constant flux'.
It's not as contradictory as it sounds.
WHAT DON'T U UNDERSTAND. I'm talking about Nietzsche's critique of "science" and "rationality" which has many merits.But any valid and useful critique is largely devoted to the perversion of the values of rational inquiry as they are "wrongly used" in a particular institutional setting. His deep critique of their nature seems to me based on beliefs about the enterprise and its guiding values that have little basis outside the institutional setting of...(INSERT UR INTITUTION)Hellenic Christendom.
The Little that I know is this: I love Nietzsche but there's a point where we start to fetishise him and prescribe in him absolutist projects that he himself would reproach (we don't take note of other dionysian enterprices). Also Jesus could well be the consolidation of various historical figures, and elements in this consolidation called on Peter to be his rock (his institution) and some, as you say, may have been disgusted with the institution we now have. So we don't know.
@Thresholds
Stern was a Prager Jude; ie Czech not Brit. Served in the RAF though.
its such a deep dissapointment that Nietzsche was unable to finish his last project of bringing all his ideas into one book, but in a way some good can come from that. just as Nietzsche believed one must find their own philosophy, it is left to us to piece together his philosophy for ourselves.
@Mujahida09
Great Philosophers, Bryan Magee, BBC, mid-1980s - available as book or tape (just Google)
@Baseliner And does it make you feel more 'comfortable' when you insult the 'masses'? Could it be that you are also in the same position as the 'masses'? Besides, wouldn't the 'masses' need an extensive study of the philosophical tradition before reading Nietzsche?
I was trivalizing her argmnt cos I don't think u want a "globalized project of euthanasia". On Nap, I think Nich's project is disputed when u mention "2 every circumstance its own law". Nap seems 2 say, 2 not paint with a broad bush (to every circumstance) because we need specific critique to specific event(its own law). I'm probably wrong, but I don't think Napoleon fits in your sense because Nich in fact wanted a broad brush stroke (2every circumstance) over every event in the institutuions.
Nah, I don`t like the best, the worst, or making decisions Mr Cropp :)
IS is what we learn everyday.
Certainty is subject to change.
Embrace it, for FUN FUN FUN!!!
socretes? plato or aristotle? kant versus st. thomas summa theologia?
Who does 'that' refer to? Magee, Stern or Nietzsche?
"His fundamental appeal is to authenticity, to self-hood, to the ____________, to the life within the person lived to the full."
Forgive me but what does he say in the blank?
Check out the video on titled "Nietzsche Pops".
It'd be a better fight than you'd imagine..
Also I'm not sure know what every people mean when they say capitalism. Nonetheless I don't think every definition of capitalism and alturism is mutually exclusive. We should fetishise non-absolutist projects. Be skeptical about skepticism and doubtful about doubtfulness also.
What do you mean by the perfect storm?
Why capital man?! It's hurt my eyeballs
A reply to put:
"His fundamental appeal is to authenticity, to self-hood, to the ____________, to the life within the person lived to the full."
Forgive me but what does he say in the blank?
It seems to me that "elan vital" fills the blank
which roughly means "vital impetus"
Regards
Gianmarco
Wich cannot be fully comprehensible unless you been there yourself. The solitude maketh the man.
Every phylosopher is right because mind creates our reallity. But what if mind just disapear?
in the modern sense of the term "right wing" he is far from it. right wingers endorse nationalism and government involvement in the social aspects of society. In the general primitive sense of the word, Nietzsche exemplifies the 19th century demand for conservative ideals in philosophy. it is quite clearly elucidated in the texts
Did J. P. Stern meet Colli-Montinari's critical edition?
I take it this is an example of Poe's Law in action?
Too true - it's a concept so many people seem married to, this overly simplistic left/right axis.
How do you mean?
@voidforpurpose There's nothing in your comment but showy references. I would be interested in hearing how this video is "anti-Nietzschean" but you have to give reasons and not just poetic ad hominems.
Why do you think that? Have you read any of his texts?
Nietzsche is a fun guy to read... but too many layman read him and then assume they know everything about philosophy. =/
I would suggest people to have at least a solid understanding of formal logic and read some philosophers (plato, aristotle, descartes, berkeley, locke, hume, kant, schopenhaur) before going into nietzsche to avoid misunderstanding him.
Well, you take the good with the bad.
Brits discussing Nietzsche over some tea. It's comedic. But their discussion of N isn't too bad. A lot of the claims are not in vogue anymore, though.
Evidently at least 15,113 people do.
does anyone dare to count the number of times Stern says "yes" in this video?
It's over 9000!!!
@cockfightcoordinator
The '70's may have been an ugly decade, but it had much better TV and music than today.
I seem to read Nietzsche against the grain always. I thought he was defending Christianity. The slave morality seem so enduring. The master morality seem so flat. But I guess its the "not" that I thought Nietzsche was going after. Anti-. or Nihilistic.
I'm afraid using the left-right version of politics is not substantial enough to describe it. Think more a hexagonal grid with fundamentalist/secular on one axis, libertarian/authoritarian on another, and democratic/dictatorial on the final axis.
Happy Humbug to all
& to all a good bite
With overpopulation , freewill becomes the perfect storm.
Because i know nothing , i know that attempting to understand anything Nietzsche ever wrote will wrong me.
Did he try to understand those he never met?
The best and worst we can do is try to understand what IS.
Everything else is theory and bedtime stories.
"The church is precisely that which Jesus preached against, and what he taught his disciples to fight."
He shoulda used that Nietzsche quote
They don't do the best job of telling the audience what Nietzche's views where, and they seem to miss the mark of what Nietzche said. It seems they know Nietzche from second-hand accounts.
i never knew he was a saxon. no wonder, anglo-saxons understand him well.
Weak people are like children and should be treated as such with compassion. Even with the obviously retarded I cannot help myself from offering a rope of compassion thinking to myself perhaps this poor soul will awake.
The trick is to never take orders from such children. After all, how difficult is it really to throw the rope out to drowning? Not difficult at all I would say being a energetic man.
To not swim out after the rope is offered, this is perhaps the pity that must be rejected.
Do humans have free will or is it an illusion?
It is overman, overcoming something. Superman is a wrong translation.
Did he really wear hisa sisters undies etc ?- please tell all, sounds fascinating.
I agree with Lev Tolstoy when he said "Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal". Of course Nietzsche wasn't literally stupid (one only has to read the brilliance of his prose) but his philosophy is stupid and pernicious.
He was depressed to the limits because he saw the stupidity of the mob.
marx also said man created god.
nietzche is life itself full of action people like those to find pleasure just in khowledge, they are a desease nothing tha they khow is applied in their life therefore they dont have authority to disscuss anybody s ideas their khowledge is limited
Nietzsche detested antisemitism and the idea that there could be a "master race"...
Hey, like I said, if you refuse to grab the rope that offered...
@TheRealNickBravo How is "Marx was a belligerent foolish alcoholic" a supporting premise for your conclusion that "Nietzsche is not in anyway the same class as Marx"??
You're comparing the superficial aspects of lifestyles and they're comparing ideas - you're not even talking about the same thing. If this is not what you meant to do, I would be interested in hearing a lucid account of the contrast between N. and M.
@supermaccarenzo Christian morality relies on a god. Christianity can't be "disproven", but by all practical means it is defunct. There are many other moralites like this. On the basis of reason we can find things to be true or untrue, but we know no absolute truth.
if you want to be famous be as obscure as possible and intellectuals will think of you deep...good luck on your life of fame and maybe even riches if you know how to play the game...
Lad, they're discussing Nietzsche, not play-acting him.
I guess these people have their own opinions, but here they are dicussing Nietzsche's opinions .. which is perfectly okay
The perfect storm will encompass the earth before it gets banned :)
beige, begie, begie, begie, begie
talking about nietzsche not building a system as a flaw lol
Monty Python has nothing on these guys.
I think Nietzsche would have prefered "The Comfy Chair" to this staid montone.
Zarathustra would have simply flipped the loveseat over and goosed these fellows off the stage.
This is like a Shakespeare love poem being read by a robot.
"Shall I compare there to a toggle bolt?"
Anti-Nietzschean to the hilt, and the tang and beyond.
@tomblack2112 Hilarious.
what we may call bs.
I used to be certain of God. Now I'm not. That's a certainty change :)
wonder that napolean would say about him? lol
I think the moral shallowness of Nietzsche's thinking becomes painfully obvious here. If this man is at all representative of his thinking, that is. Notice how little excuse Nietzsche seems to need in this man's mind to do away with compassion. Nietzsche may have not been a nazi, I think he was simply too narcissistic for that but ok, the result would anyone actually have taken his model of a society to heart would have been just as ugly.
False. One of the things Nietzsche spoke most vehemently against, was the growing German nationalism that would breed the Nazi party. Sadly, after he went insane, his pro-Nazi sister did name "editing" of his work to make him look like a supporter, and that falsehood has surrounded his legacy ever since.
Reverend Winnebago I think you are so used to commonplace commentary on nietzsche that you kinda forgot to read my comment!
wishcraft4u2 Your comment seems to state Nietzsche was only not a Nazi due to his narcissism or etc, so I am rightly pointing out there's more to the story. You're quite right that it's hard to build a stable society on his beliefs. But then again, I think overall he'd grasp the nettle on that one. He might say it would be better for us all to go out in a blaze, than for things to roll on merely for the sake of stability.
Reverend Winnebago no, it doesn't say that. What I'm saying is being some kind of a racist nationalist would be too obviously ugly, so he wont have of it because he's too "noble", but really what he seems to be suggesting people do is eventually going to be just as bad.
Reverend Winnebago I'm not even sure what that MLK analogy has to do with what I suggest, ironically it seems a lot like exactly what Nietzsche would suggest...
your dad?
Is it just me or is it terribly rude how Stern won't stop saying yes or attempting to start a point whenever Magee is talking. I mean, Magee very likely knows far more on the subject, yet Stern butts in as if Magee was wrong, or leaving out something essential. More than being rude, it sort of makes this annoying to watch as at times I miss what Magee is saying or get distracted. Oh well.
shits out of sync brah
Talking " about" Nietzsche is boring. These academics never experiences something similar what Nietzsche was suffering: utter solitude.
and of course you "Super" Alexrios know something that the rest of the world doesn't? And please do not reply as I am sure you already deduced it was a rhetoric question.
Man have always tried to create his own philosophy about life creating evil ways and principles. By fallowing their own heart and understanding they only give proof that they are fools trying to invent a path that will ultimately lead them to deny God, and by that showing how ignorant and wicked man is.