CinemaSins vs CinemaWins - Nobody Does It Better
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2020
- CinemaSins is one of the most popular and, by extension, one of the most widely criticized channels on RUclips. Plenty of content creators have thoroughly dissected CinemaSins and concluded that they are a channel of poor quality. However, a channel which seems to have gotten a pass from scrutiny is their antithetical clone CinemaWins. Moreover, the audience that CinemaWins has cultivated seem to appreciate his videos and believe that his channel is of superior quality to CinemaSins. I wanted to put this to the test by directly comparing and contrasting both channels. In this video I will explore the reasons why many people take issue with CinemaSins and determine if CinemaWins is in fact a superior quality antithesis to Jeremy Scott's iconic channel.
Blessed Southpaw: / southpawlp
ChaseFace: / chasefaceshow 
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I'd love to see Cinemasins and Cinemawins collaborate on a movie review where they respectively criticize and praise the movie good-cop-bad-cop style and have arguments with each other along the way
YYYYES. And then have it so that the final counter is determining which side has more wins or sins, to declare which side prevails. Obviously it will be all in good fun. And maybe both sides can give their own takes on the film
I doubt Sins would do that, they'd probably sooner strike CinemaWins down for being a "baseless copy and an Ex Machina"
That would be fun to watch.
Noooooooooooooooo
that’s a cool idea but frankly sins would get creamed no matter what
For me, I watch Sins for a good laugh on movies I dislike, and I watch Wins to get a deeper appreciation for movies I love.
Same
I thought everyone did that. I mean, why would you want to watch someone hate on a movie you love? Or praise a movie you dislike? It makes no sense to me.
@@ultraviolet119 just my take on it is all.
@@GreatOldOne9866 I do wonder why people enjoy it tho. It only ever made me uncomfortable.
@@ultraviolet119 you got me, people just like what they like.
I think both Cinemawins and Cinemasins can become better if:
Sins: Focuses on the nitpicks and flaws in a movie that specifically bug them and make jokes that aren't founded on a fragile premise.
Wins: Focuses his talents on really good movies that mostly aren't blockbusters or not very good movies. Like I get it, it's his choice to pick the movies he wants to win, but I think he's got amazing talent, and I want him to help people expand their horizons on not just their opinions, but the movies out there.
TL:DR, Sins needs to sharpen its writing, Wins needs to expand its horizons.
@@locococo8961 Oh you talking about Cinemasins? I think they're not as bad as everyone says they are, I think their jokes and criticisms need time to develop. They don't have enough breathing room between their videos.
Cinemawins made a video about everything great about 'GODS OF EGYPT'...GODS OF EGYPT
@@sibusisopitsi6870 oh my god that's a reach. She says. Having seen that movie more than once.
"Pretend that you liked it (TROS) and see how you liked it"...
Wins is garbage just like sins.
From time to time Sins actually comes up with brilliant sins
I do agree with your points, but I think in the case of cinemawins, it mostly boils down to intent. The creator of CinemaWins wanted to exclusively point out the good things movies do and be a mirror to Cinemasins. I think he definitely has the potential and capability to be what you wish Cinemawins to be, but maybe that's not what the creator wants (as seen from the fact that Cinemawins videos improves with each new videos while cinemasins go the opposite way). Cinemawins is already better than Cinemasins in a lot of ways, but unless Lee wants to take his video content to another level, it's not going to change. Plus, if the problem is that viewers may not gain anything beneficial out of the video, then I think Cinemawins is already good the way it is as I have learned a lot from their videos and interested to learn more about the things they pointed out, i.e. Edgar Wright's editing.
Regardless, I'm glad you made this video. I didn't notice a lot of stuff that Lee does that may not be accurate or correct, so kudos to you
There's one thing to point out the good. Like, he can clap at actors, sound and the pretty lighting to have that but then he goes out of his way to provide counter arguments and the reach is sometimes just sad
Additionally, Lee reacts better to criticism in general and is more willing to adapt further on his content within its limitations, whilst Jeremy is more than often adamant on reacting aggressively to those who criticize him.
@@bipstymcbipste5641 I agree with this a lot. I find myself really disliking his defenses of certain movies (batman v superman comes to mind) as it feels like he defends the indefensible
As a big fan of CinemaWins, I have noticed some occasional mistakes he's made or how sometimes his intends and approaches to his videos aren't exactly the best, but I overall have so much respect and appreciation for him, and I agree with your points.
@@margogoralski6294 and Lee usually corrects it, while Jeremy acts like he did absolutely denies he's done anything.
I’m glad CinemaWins exists, because who doesn’t like positivity? There’s already way too much negativity, we need to balance it out somehow. I’m tired of constantly being bombarded by criticism for everything, Wins is a nice respite from that. So I do think Wins is better than Sins, if only because they’re unique.
I suppose Wins gives better vibes, CinemaWins isn't nitpicking like CinemaSins does.
Jeremy from CinemaSins changed too much, before he used to sin something because it was a error, or a shot where you see the cameraman or the logic of the movie is flawed. No he seems to whine about everything and missuses so many things.
In his Rogue One video, he complains about the movie changing planets (it's a Star Wats film, you will obviously be changing planets in a movie about a GALAXY far far away), another example es the excesive use of:
[Number]Seconds of logos
[Something] Cliche
[Something] Ex machina
Or when he points something at the film and he sins it because he needs to extend de video runtime.
Let me show you an example.
Character in movie: *Breathes*
Jeremy; This character is breathing *Ding*
(Or when he asks a question and counts it as a sin)
Jeremy: Why is this character breathing? *Ding*.
Now, CinemaWins unlike CinemaSins pays more attention to the movie and shows you some subtle but nice details, like when Metroman points at his mother not to tickle him and stuff that are good and subtle details. He often takes the movie as it is, interpreting and understanding the tropes and terms, telling you why the movie is good.
My theory is that negativity was the cooler thing to talk about back in the day since it was seen as something more entertaining than positivity. But it has become a bit oversaturated lately and positivity is starting to get the same treatment as it's something different. At this point, the cycle may just repeat endlessly.
@@reno9821 I’d be surprised if overdone positivity ever passes up overdone negativity again, since the internet absolutely loves negativity. Maybe if a dictator takes away our access to it or something then it’ll happen
@@ultraviolet119 True, as long as negativity still has as big of a following in the future as it does now, positivity will not be overdone. It's good that positivity has gotten bigger in the past few years, or so it seems.
But it's too much
CinemaSins to me is just comedy and I think thats the way you should look at it. CinemaWins however is just a beam of positivity to help you appreciate a movie more
No way anyone fu***ng laughs at jeremey sure i laugh at his channel lol
the problem with Cinimasins being "comedy" is comedy is funny.
For me, it was helpful to learn that you can still thoroughly enjoy a movie while watching someone critique it. Cinemasins for me is just entertainment, and it’s interesting to see a movie through a critic’s eyes. At times, Jeremy does recognize how good a movie is (he called Princess Bride a national treasure in his video about it), which is also good. I do agree that Cinemasins can be overly cynical and annoying, but I don’t think they’re this cancer of RUclips they’re made out to be.
Thank you for listening to my TedTalk.
@@chickadeestevenson5440 "funny" is entirely subjective. I respectfully disagree with your opinion.
@@Zarkyun You derive enjoyment from boner jokes on Jeremy's past? Cinemasins are hypocrites, their videos are critiques when it suits them and satire when it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.
Oh, I 100% prefer Cinemawins. Jeremy's content is mostly "these are problems with this movie, and it's definitely a joke wink wink, no actual criticism here (except when it is) and iT's sAtIRe."
I don't believe Lee's actually ever claimed to be a critic. His vibe is just "hey these are things I like about this movie, and these are my interpretations of that might explain the plothole." He lacks the pretensions of his OG counterpart, will acknowledge bad tor problematic things with the film as well, (but won't focus on him because that's not his brand) and then give his honest opinion.
Plus, I prefer Lee's infectious enthusiasm!
Bless you, I agree
Although from time to time Sins comes up with legitimately great sins
Yep. He's great.
I would like for cinemasins to basically take a sort of, neutral type of change. Where the cool scenes and epic moments can perhaps help cut down on the sins, while keeping in the good jokes. But, have those jokes not add to the counter. Or, have separate counters for the different types. Say, Joke Counter, Sin Counter and Epic counter
Jeremy would say, and has said, we're not critics we'ra assholes.
@@jeremydyar7566 well, it would take one to know it, wouldn't it?
Birdman said it best: "you padding the sin count, bro?"
*Crunch crunch
"I think you're padding the sin count."
*Ding
All arguments aside, it all comes down to entertainment value...yet again
I get your points... But I still prefer CinemaWins to Sins, mainly because Lee does his best to be positive about movies while Jeremy just plays the jerk who I don’t think anyone would like to be around. Heck, if anything, we need positivity in regards to the media and not needless negativity!
Or both enough with the extremes
No, we don't need positivity more than negativity. People have this idea that being positive is automatically good, when it is neutral at best
@@xolotltolox7626what’s wrong with being neutral lol
@@kaponosucks where did you get neutral = bad from?
@@xolotltolox7626 ummm idk the clown i just replied to
I think the main reason why cinemasins is percieved as worse than cinemawins is that cinemasins is almost exclusively negative and cinemawins is almost exclusively positive. As Dom Cobb said “positive emotion trumps negative emotion every time”.
Very true
Or fanboys just don’t like their movie being mocked. To be honest, I just watch it for laughs. I never go to a Cinemasins video to get an actual essay about it’s flaws, I just like his jokes and think he has a good sense of humor.
@@gojitsar7505 not really, even watching vids about films I hate on cinemasins I can tell he's full of shit
@@doctordoom1860 Fine then. We all have opinions.
@@gojitsar7505 yes
"if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all."
Underrated comment. This is a godly quote
Ah! A fellow Witcher fan.
It looks like Jay was right after all, but then we all knew that anyways...
MR MONROE a surprise to be sure but a welcome one
Prequels are good.. bing bong
Prequels are bad.. bong bing
Hi Nomz
"Hey, maybe Anakin mind-trick padmé without even knowing...though she may fall for him" - CinemaWins AOTC
"Revenge of the Sith is a movie where the good far outweights the bad" - CinemaWins ROTS. In comparison too the movies before or to every film ever made.
Explain me more! What do you mean?
Really the third act of Revenge of the Sith is really rough.
CinemaSins: Fuel - the biggest problem of The Last Jedi (iam joking i just never ever watched a Star Wars video from CinemaSins). There are far better Sin videos for the Star Wars trilogy...eh, i mean more entertaining.
*The language is without guarantee
I didn't check those videos again because i don't want.
And hi Mr Anomaly Inc
Congrats on 40k Anomaly!
Movies are made to be watched, and enjoyed. If a channel likes CinemaWins is showing me how to look at the positives of a otherwise (maybe) flawed movie, that's only winning for me. If at the end of the day I can still distinguish good movies from bad movies (if that's even necessary), then I believe " twisting" your own logic or logic in general isn't a bad thing to enjoy something more. These little tangents Lee goes on are definitely comparable to what is done at CinemaSins, not adding anything worth of criticism or substance in general, but with CinemaWins it is presented with a very positive, optimistic attitude, which I prefer watching over a guy who "hates" everything in movies(?)
God, I used to love CinemaSins... until I saw CinemaWins, and now I can’t go back to CinemaSins.
@@jakeb2x266 exactly i dont like nit picking movies it gets annoying i unsubsribed to cinema sins
Enjoyment is subjective. Someone could easily enjoy nitpicking and tearing down a movie. If you like the opposite, all the power to you, but just because CinemaWins is trying to be positive doesn't bail him out of the same kinds of poor criticisms and mistakes that CInemaSins makes. They're both two sides of the same coin. One goes out of their way to unfairly push a movie down, and the other goes out of their way to unfairly pull a movie up.
Honestly, CinemaWins annoys me more sometimes. He gives me the impression that he feels he's fulfilling some higher, grand purpose for film criticism when he's really not. At least CinemaSins seems more aware that he's just making nitpicks and jokes. Don't get me wrong. I don't like CinemaSins either. I think both of them are pretty bad.
But for the love of god, look at the point Evan showcased at the end where CinemaWins tried to defend Palpatine returning in TRoS by saying 'pretend it's what you wanted and see how you feel'. I don't think CinemaSins has every said anything as ridiculous as that.
Anyways, I feel that balanced criticism, looking at both the flaws and the strengths, is better for a film critique (or a critique of anything, really). But like Evan said, if that's their shtick, and they've found an audience, well good for them.
It’s your fault for taking Cinemasins seriously to begin with. You’re supposed to take it as a joke 🤦♀️
I honestly think that Cinema sins guy doesn't actually hate movies, he just does those videos for content. And it works. They have millions of subs. They are pretty fun to watch
i just listen to cinemasins for the voice of jeremy
and....
for the warm and fuzzy feeling i get when they remove sins...it makes me feel like....when something is so good, so perfect....you cannot criticize or poke at it even though thats the only thing you live for
Yeah, I think it makes it more meaningful when a channel dedicated to comedic criticism points out good qualities. Like if you want to watch a channel break down why good films are good, there are plenty of commentary channels that do that. If you want to break down superhero or other action films, there are channels that do that. CinemaSins is meant to emulate watching a movie with friends over beers where you poke fun at it. It's not meant to be serious film criticism, so I'm not sure why some people get so offended when he makes jabs at movies.
i wonder if cinemasins' response to this would be "our sins have no real value because if they did they'd lose their real value"
Pretty sure that point was already made in the EWW Cinema Sins video back in what... 2018? 2017? Somewhere around there.
Focusing on the formula is about the simplest way to connect the two channels, so that's understandable. But it's also a very shallow element, totally surface level, and I think it can lead one to missing so much of the actual reasons why Cinemasins sucks so hard. bobvids' video is really good at getting into those fundamental, underlying reasons found in the channel's business model (clickbait) and philosophy for how to discuss movies. Now this video brings up more bad things about CS than just pointing to the format, but when it comes to Cinemawins it definitely misses the mark. Painting it in any way as a situation of "both sides are equally bad" (like this were a centrist political video) is doing a disservice to both channels. Whereas with Cinemawins any factual errors come as honest mistakes, with CS they are very much part of the style and aesthetic. The lack of caring that is communicated is the same as with the casual jokes that make up such a big portion of the videos while doing nothing to critique the film. Not to suggest that the errors are intentional, that would be letting CS off with the Tommy Wisseau defense. But the point I'm making is instead that the mistakes are a part of the channel. It has never been improved and they continue to plague their videos like 8 years later. The channel doesn't care to change or better itself because the way the videos are written and the movies examined are what they're going for. This is not the case at all with Cinemawins.
Also, why bring up the stated purpose of Cinemawins as a channel but not do the same for CS? If this is a comparative analysis between the two, the fact that there are numerous contradictory statements from the creators of the latter about to what extent it is actual film criticism, or jokes, or to what extent the complaints are real or just them "doing a character", would seem to be relevant in making a solid comparison.
Most of what I mention here is addressed in this video itself, so I have to congratulate the video on being thorough and looking at the multiple different aspects of the channel and how the topics raised can be interpreted, it is quite a well structured video in that regard. But the conclusion, as well as the presentation, still makes the equivalency between the channels that is so strange to me. Despite problems pointed out with Cinemawins here, it doesn't seem to follow how that makes it equal with CS in terms of being a bad channel. Like the whole argument here is that people like bobvids and the channel audience are wrong for praising Cinemawins as a superior channel to CS. And how is this disproven? Rather it seems to be confirmed just from the acknowledgement that the former makes good, insightful commentary and critique on the quality of films at times, when this is something the latter is so completely bereft of. The conclusion thus is just wrong, plain and simple. The magnitude of issues with CS and how the good parts/bad parts scales in comparison to them.
In that way this video seems to work as like apologetics for Cinemasins more than anything else. In the same way as someone might come to a Cinemawins video having heard the complaints about a movie and then being presented with reasons why it's not necesarily so bad, someone who has seen bobvids or Shaun's videos on Cinemasins might come to this video having heard the arguments against that channel and here be told that it's not so bad, that the channel is at least on par with it's most direct antithesis. And that I take issue with. It seems like you have an issue with the criticism of Cinemasins you present that ends with "Stop watching cinemasins" and as something toxic for moviegoers and for film criticism. If that's so, it would be best to adress it directly, since the conclusion of this video is so much more positively framed towards Cinemasins as harmless and something which has found an audience that likes it for what it is.
Anyway, I also think it's inaccurate to describe Cinemawins as just trying to say all movies are good, giving a purely positive appraisal of them. The way it uses the format, which is a lot better than CS imo, rather makes it clear that the channel is about taking all the individual positive elements from a film and presenting that. Not the films quality in it's entirety or as he says "objectively" but the aspects of the film individually.
Hopefully this comment didn't come across as overly negative or hostile. Wasn't intended to be.
I think you explained perfectly why most people believe CinemaWins makes better and depper analysis of movies than CS, and also why they are not equal. V nice comment bro
@@vallraffs Jesus you wrote a lot. I think both are good, and i just like cinema sins because they are fun to watch, and it can be amusing to hear someone complain about blockbuster movies. I don't really care about the facts. However, in my opinion, what is better then BOTH channels are Screen Rants pitch meetings. I think they are so genius, and in my opinion more clever then either sins or wins. Check it out, Ryan George is hilarious
No he says nobody does it better as in both are terrible
@@Galvatronover hiiisssss
Didn't CinemaSins make a video called *Everything Wrong With CinemaSins* where one of the sins was that they were not movie reviewers
I rarely watch cinemasins or cinemawins but when I do I can enjoy both, I don’t watch either channel for an actual review or to decide if I should watch the movie I have other ways of finding that out. I usually watch cinemasins for the dry humor and entertainment value I can see its flaws but I can look past those so that I can enjoy the content. I watch cinemawins when I’m looking for a slightly more comprehensive and more appreciative video on a movie, I usually watch cinemawins videos on movies I’m a fan of so I can share my appreciation of the movie with someone. Both channels are entertaining from time to time and I do enjoy both, but I completely understand how some people don’t like them
I think most people take CinemaSins far too seriously. Even he has said that the sin counter has no real meaning and most of the sins mean nothing.
I like CinemaWins more because I don't need to see any more negativity than I already do. I feel like consuming negative opinions just for the sake of it being negative puts people, if not then just me, into a bad headspace.
I love both channels, and I think cinema sins takes on movies are taken too seriously. I watch their channel for laughs at bad movies, and I don't care whether the sins are for actual complaints, as if that was all cinema sins did I think their videos might fall a bit flat. Cinema wins is just a good channel too imo
However from bobvids' video we can see that people actually take his criticism seriously and don't watch the movies, thats the problem
@@akhil6826 Thats their problem, not cinemasins
@@akhil6826 most people don't care and just want to enjoy the movie
18:39 "Yoda using lightning to burn down a tree in The Last Jedi was the first instance where we saw Force Ghosts being able to interact with the physical world."
*Cue clip of Obi-Wan's Force Ghost pushing aside vines on Dagobah*
CinemaWins says every Movie falls apart when analyzing it thoroughly. He clearly didn't watch In Bruges then.
Can you remind me in what videos did he say it again? I've been looking for the video to know the context as to why he said it
@@4everhls Oh damn, that's 7 months ago o.O It has to be one of those EFAP covered at that time or earlier, because I did not watch anything on his channel.
In case you don't know EFAP: EFAP is a Podcast hosted by MauLer and Rags, they watch video essays and respond to them live. (Oh and if you heard negative things about them, give it a shot anyways, usually someone who engages honestly with their content know that the people are lying about them)
If the podcasts would be too long for you that is totally fine of course.
Ok it might be the followings:
1. The Rise of Skywalker
2. Joker
3. TLJ
My bet is on the Rise of Skywalker one, but I am not entirely sure.
Tell me if you found it there, if not I'll look out more.
@@Soapy-chan_old It was in the Joker one. I was watching that the other day. Blur the blood, not the wound
@@bipstymcbipste5641 Ah right, yes, thanks for informing me.
Cinema-sins and Cinema-wins: Doppio and Diavolo.
Seemingly different personalities inhabiting the same being. One seemingly less awful than the other at first, but upon closer inspection, neither of them are what you would call good.
And of course, Patrick Willems is Risotto Nero, for anyone who’s a fan of this analogy.
So MauLer or Monroe is Giorno?
Who is that I would say sentry and void
Diego Brando
Mauler of course!
@@Party_Almsivi fuck mauler
Having a stand with the power of requiem would be so cool he could really get points down and finish a lot in such a small spand i wonder what the abilty would be though irl instead of reversing time like GER
This is good, thanks for sharing it with me. I enjoy how you wrap up CW's issues, I've never really paid attention before. I like movies for movies sake, as well--I'm not likely to be the one MST3K'ing in the front row about plot contrivances, but you're absolutely right that this doesn't excuse those mistakes.
"The sequel trilogy is the first instance in which we see Force ghosts interact with the real world."
Clone Wars S6E11: You sure about that?
Now I’m going to watch the efap on cinema wins joker just so I can watch the very justified fury at his asinine lord of the rings take
It's 10 months later. Has that EFAP video ended yet?
@Reno Thomas that isnt what he was saying tho
@@zekromx101 Even then, that's a pretty fat statement that Lee made considering the status of lord of the rings as one of the best trilogies ever made. To bluntly throw out a statement like that without anything to back it up, it makes him look like he's really desperate to defend his schtick. The implication that there's a thin line between a great movie and a terrible movie is seriously dumb
Oh my, OH MY!
Editing and writing are superb. Sound, with the exception of a couple of minor cutoffs or drownouts (tell southpaw to fix your mic XD) combined with that smooth voice creates great ambience.
Great to see someone aptly articulate so many of the issues and misconceptions with these two channels.
Stay massive and may the Don bless you and this video!
I’d like a collab where they both do each other’s scripts. So cinemawins gets a sins script and the sins get the wins script and then they do the video.
A Mauler video yesterday and a Monroe video today, is this when the year 2020 starts to improve?
Ha no it got worse
I had just a minor confusion over the title. I was almost worried you'd argue that nobody *on RUclips* does it better than Wins and Sins.
Turns out, it's fine 😂
Now *_this_* is epic.
*Celestial* finding yer comment 'round here, for nough reason... Arrrg'ably.
Evan, this video solidified why you are my favorite content creator on RUclips: you make accurate assessments based on the information present, you create entertaining criticism through great editing and scripting techniques, and you reach conclusions that are fair and understandable. Plus, you are fair to both sides and recognize that they both CAN offer valuable insight, but that they just seemingly choose not to most of the time. Keep up the fantastic work with your videos dude!
I’ve been excited for this for a while
*I've been looking forward to this*
I don't take CinemaSins seriously but, he has a few good videos like his video on DBE, Transformers 4, & Batman and Robin. His videos on The Room and Troll 2 are hilarious.
I take false praise 100 times more often than false criticism.
I like it more when some tries to point out the good things about a bad movie than someone pointing out the bad things about a good movie.
I might just enjoy positivity more even if its not justified. I am pessimistic enough and dont need more pessimism in the area I enjoy. Which is watching movies and series.
lee is such a likeable guy that i bear with all of his shallow one word wins and whatever else. he just got the best vibe idk
I really wish you've made more content. Not only do I enjoy your excellent points and analysis, I need to hear more of that buttery smooth voice of yours.
Cinema sins is a satire channel that jokes around a movie, a great laugh.
Cinema wins is a channel that analyze and review a move carefully, a great companion to evening coffee.
To put them in the same category is kinda misled.
he made the satire excuse to avoid hate
Shoutout to using Cowboy Bebop ost!
0:18 you said "they have well over 8 million subscribers" this video is literally unwatchable
It would have been more accurate to say they have almost 9 million subscribers
Also at 28:44 you say we shouldn't sugar coat things when that is exactly what keeps us safe from Diabeto
What
@@gggfightklub8449 Read it as if someone was being sarcastic
Last part needs deep EFAP lore for context
Got angry then started laughing bmy ass of nice one man
You are complaining about cinemawins and sins and how nit-picky they are while nit-picking at certain videos...
These are the kinds of videos with objective criticism I love most.
The ones where, yes, points are made about a film’s flaws, but they get made without a ton of rage or ranting. And don’t get me wrong, I like those kinds of videos too, but I personally think these are more interesting and fun to listen to.
“Why doesn’t the family from a Quiet Place just move to the waterfall?”
...because then it would be a less interesting movie
@Sean Macguire my point is that if they lived safely and comfortably at the waterfall, you wouldn’t love the movie because there would be no conflict in the story. It would just be a movie about living in a house by a waterfall. There would be no movie.
@@maximillion322 But the plot of the movie hinges on a set of circumstances that does not involve an element like the waterfall. So why the hell is the waterfall in the movie in the first place?
An analogy: Our protagonists need to get from one story to the upper one of a building they are inside, but the staircase has collapsed. They build a ladder to climb up there, at some great cost to themselves. During this time, a fully functional elevator lift, that goes from their floor to the one they want to get to, is shown and the protagonists know of it and they can use it at a minor cost to themselves. They still construct the ladder.
Does it not seem ridiculous for the protagonists to continue using the ladder? If it does, then there is a plot-hole because they could just have used the elevator. If it does not, then why is the elevator in the story in the first place?
@@TheJarlOfJyttland good point. Why are the Great Eagles in LOTR if not to just fly the Fellowship to Mt. Doom in an afternoon and be done with it before Saruman can rase an army?
@@maximillion322 Simple answer: Nazguls. But you bringing it up in response to the waterfall in A Quiet Place reveals to me that you acknowledge that it is a plot-hole for that movie. And if that is true, then why are you giving that movie's script the defense of stupidity?
@@TheJarlOfJyttland it is a plothole. The optimal solution would be to cut that scene entirely. But as long as it exists, my point is that it’s better to have an otherwise great movie with a slight plot hole than no movie at all.
I love the impartiality and unbiased analysis of both channels in ur video. It helps to provide a more objective and complete understanding of both the good and shortcomings of each channel, and not just focus on comparing which is better. Amazing! 👍
I mean to be fair, I don't think that we should expect Cinemawins to be as technical as a professional movie critic. He's just there for the laughs. Same reason as to why there are no conclusion at the end of his vids. I really hate how he makes movies seem worsr than they are though. His content should be harmless and light imo since that is where he fits in.
Good video, my man. I think the biggest problem with each channel is, that the purpose of their videos seems to shift based on whatever they want at any given time, while keeping the same well-worn format. This is why each of their fanbases are really defensive in saying "It's X but you're treating it as Y", or "it's Y but you're treating it as X" simultaneously.
I think at the final point where you summed yourself up, you could have used a side-by-side visual comparison of the flaws of each channel.
CinemaWins is better because chad positivity beats virgin negativity
I hope I don’t think your assessment is necessarily wrong I feel like taken a purely objective look at sins and wins’ formats is doing it the wrong way. I feel what actually separates them is intent, I remember once in a video Lee said that he started Cinemawins with the mission statement “ every movie is at least one person’s favorite” and he clearly cares about filmmaking as a whole more than Sins does
I agree with everything you said. I get so annoyed when cinema wins get praised just for being positive when half their stuff is just justification for legitimate problems rather than praise of a films quality elements
@@gojitsar7505 my mesage wasn’t about cinema sins it was about the fact that I agree that wins suffers the same inherent issues sins does and is considered good while cinema sins is considered bad. I don’t personally enjoy cinema-sins though I did for a time. Be that as it my I take issue with your premise that cinema sins should be given leeway because of comedy when the main premise of their channel is critique. Their series name and their mantra “no movie is without sin” imply analysis is their central premise and when uninformed a person can easily mistake them as far more critique focused than they actually are. On top of this cinema sins absolutely includes criticism with their comedy often times the two are so bizarrely mixed to the point that it’s hard to tell the difference. Based on this I think it’s absolutely fair to be critical of cinema sins quality since a lot of their stuff ends up being low quality clickbait using a format that absolutely could work with more work and better writing.
@@gojitsar7505 have a nice one 😁
Glad this comparison exists, really. For how popular both of these channels are, its kinda weird how little they're mentioned in the same sentence. I think this essay kinda missed the point though. The reason these channels are both so great is because of their personality and sense of humor. People don't come to cinemasins to know everything wrong about movies they like, they want entertainment surrounding their favorite entertainment. Shouldn't be taken so seriously, just my take.
The return of the king. I was convinced you had been absorbed by cinema roberto or something. Very happy to see this in my sub box.
Why am I only watching this now? Absolutely great content and interesting ideas worth thinking about. You Mr. Monroe deserves those 8 million subscribers
Someone call the paramedics, cuz these channels just got _burned!_ 😎
Um ok sure lil guy
this was a good breakdown on the flaws and ups of both channels and regardless i will always be huge fans of both jeremys and lees channels bc they are exactly what they need to be. highly entertaining and both make good points about movies 😁
The main problem with the sins/wins format is they are extremes. Sins looks for stuff to call out so hard that he’s blinded and often makes mistakes. Wins is only ever looking to praise movies even if he knows they’re not good.
@AlezanderO2 Cinemawins really likes TLJ though, he explained his views for 20 minutes after the main rundown.
Cinema sins is just a satire channel though, nitpicking is their thing
@@neroidius6915 the satire excuse has been debunked by tons of people
@@1917girl I mean if they themselves say its satire then i don't understand what has to be debunked
@@1917girl That's the thing about satire. Surely it can't exactly be “debunked”. It doesn't quite work like that, I don't think.
"Better, smarter, more productive content to enjoy."
Links chris stuckmann
Oh no...
So what you are saying rather than everyone’s opinion they are just sinning and winning with their own opinions
You'll be giant one day. Really appreciate that you keep a fine distinction between a subjective opinion of yours and an objective criticism of whatever you are analyzing, unlike so many other review channels.
Well he was inspired by Mauler who has started to popularize the renormalization of concept of objective criticism.
Great video! This is the best video on the subject of Cinema Sins I've seen yet. Thank you.
i need more videos from you man, love the way you make videos.
Okay but why does all film discussion need to be high-brow analysis?
Is crazy how people don't know the crazy amount of efforts to make this kinds of videos. Just because it's simple in a way doesn't mean is easy or less time consuming
The idea that anyone would build a whole channel around either heaping criticism on every movie equally and arbitrarily, or heaping praise on every movie equally and arbitrarily is baffling to me. Can you even consider yourself a movie critic if you don't discriminate between good and bad films?
Also, good video. I'm gonna go rewatch Fincher's The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo because it's brilliant, and then proceed to cry because the trilogy will never be completed.
I enjoyed this video. Your scripts are crisp. Your hard work really shows.
If the channels merged together then they’d work
I actually used to think they were the same person/people, is that weird?
Nope, not weird at all...
Cuz you're not the only one
I mean, They look so identical,
So it's no shame to be fooled
You deserve millions of subs
Regarding the waterfall in A Quiet Place (16:30), even if we agree that they SHOULD move to the waterfall there are still reasonable people who disagree, and if not, it seems reasonable that the people in the movie may have not recognised the value. I don't understand why an arguably poor decision is necessarily a plot hole.
Cinemasins is more satire and comedy whilst wins is much more analysis, the type of content isn’t really comparable imho
19:50 ya... that’s the point
Just because it’s for comedy, that dosen’t excuse them from getting things wrong, especially when they’re also using legitimate criticism as well.
@@Serena_Maeve and JOKES
I really don't think there's ANY issue with their "content". Both channels have funny enjoyable content to watch. It's not like they are deciding your opinion on the movie for you.
Ya there is no fitting conclusion or overall summary of Jeremy’s thoughts on the film.
I feel like there needs to be a "CinemaTruths" channel that has a "good" counter and a "bad" counter, and just have no bullshit to it. But, sadly, that would probably not be marketable. People are emotional irrational creatures, and they go for what makes them feel good. Movies they love, they want to see loved and praised. Movies they hate, they want to see hated and mocked. Actual intellectuals like you and me are a rare breed that can think critically and constructively about things, and PROPERLY embrace and understand how and why things are flawed or not flawed in a movie REGARDLESS of if we love or hate it.
I don't think that's possible. Because no one person can completely evaluate a film 100% objectively. There's always gonna be bias which is why I think it's better to be discussed in a comittee like fashion with multiple people that have arrived to different conclusions.
@@AlexSciChannel I never said they need to evaluate a film 100% objectively, but good job strawmanning what I said. "Truth" can just mean honest opinions. I'd just also want it to be done in a constructive and reasonable and intelligent manner.
But sure, have two or three or something people of different preferences and tastes discuss it could work. But even that has it's flaws too. Especially when people remember Siskel and Ebert fondly... even though Roger Ebert was a hypocritical moron.
@@kurvos sorry just misinterpereted. Not strawmanning jusy assumed the implications. But even if a channel like this existed and they're also speaking from opinion putting too much credence in what they say may very well influence the outlook of a piece of art negatively. This happens a lot with cinemasins where a bunch of people suddenly thinks a movie is worse because cinemasins is overly harsh on it when in reality they're idiots that mixes up criticism and parody. This hypothetical cinematruths doesn' have that prospect. But for realnit just sounds like you're talking about a movie critic. Because what you described is a film critic's job.
@@AlexSciChannel You strawmanned by assuming from implications, so it's still strawmanning. But whatever.
in return of the jedi ghost alec guinness either interacts with the degobah swamp by sitting on a log or hes doing a killer squat. definitely orders of magnitude less than what happens in the sequels, and honestly an unintended detail more than a concrete statement of force ghost abilities, but i think its funny anyway lol.
i would disagree with lee and (i think?) you that a film can have “objective flaws” so much as merited criticisms that lee often fails to defend against in a sound way, but thats more of a semantic issue i think
CinemaWins is thought provoking, corrects himself and willing defend the value of garbage, even things he himself finds as garbage. That takes more time and effort then going “logo’s exist” (ding)
I agree with this video, I will say though from what it looks like CW is only one person vs an entire team (IIRC CS is more then one person). So while both are flawed I still prefer CW just because it’s just one guy and it doesn’t look easy to do a deep dive on films every week.
Good video, but would be good to blur their subtitles when you are talking
Are the channels owned by same guy?
So what about gaming Sins channels?
"Gordon Ramsay critiques a store bought can of spaghettios" (Alternate title for this video)
i cant believe it was until today I realised they were not connected by a single person
Im pretty sure cinema wins just says what he likes. I dont think he ever said he was an actual critic.
Day 1 of me asking you to make an el camino video in the format of ur felina video
2:22 or as Spider-Man would say, '"You remember that old movie with the clone dinosaurs that could open doors, and there was that Indiana Jones guy who was like 'clever girl!' just before he got mauled? Well what if WE were the dinosaurs? I mean not like the whole eating people thing because that would just be weird, but..." 😂
I guess it depends on what kind of video your watching from either one
For example wins spiderman into the spider verse was a very detailed and explained video for when it needed it and I personally think wins is an ok channel but it depends on what video your watching and at what part but I mainly watch him for his sometimes good analysis but I think he could improve
The reason I find wins more entertaining and enriching is that they are uplifting the art of movies, but sins is just shitting on them
Uh I hate when I don’t learn from a cinemasins video 👁👄👁
Bruh
what
I don’t see the problem with their channels. At first I was one of those guys who hated cinemasins for the annoying and stupid criticisms, but then I realized that was the point. Cinemasins is just an overly negative satire of film criticism. Cinemawins is an overly positive praise of films. Both of these channels are designed to promote two sides, I think your video has a point but it’s a point that ultimately is deep for no reason. These channels are not really film essays; they’re fun ways to appreciate film and make fun of it. I think both of their channels do what they’re were meant to do.
Wait..they're not the same person???
I thought so too
Is it the same person? Or 2 friends, or is cinemawins just a different person as a whole and they have nothing to do eachother
two different people and cinesins has said he doesnt like cinemawins
Every Frame a Painting was that far down the list? That was one of the greatest channels on youtube.
Ahhhhh, it’s been a while.
Come now.
_One of them has _*_Win_*_ on it's brand._
Should be obvious.
i really enjoyed this video, thank you
TL;DW :
cinema sins : is bad
cinema wins: is bad
i make constructive criticism watch me.
As always: A great video
That ending holy fucj that ending
Yall are being dramatic its not really to be taken seirously its just to lighten up your day
You take it seriously enough to watch videos that critique it and to defend it in the comments.
@@emperorofrome692
Nobody asked
@@pnnguin6686 But i asked Emperor Of rome.