Looks like this one is getting a bit more viewership after a few years being under the radar. Glad to see the comments section is filled with people who are fans of either channel. I really think there's a time and place for CinemaSins style videos, they can be really entertaining to watch when done right. I just think you should be clear with what you're trying to do in your videos, and perhaps add a bit more than whimsical jokes and jabs, positive or negative. Regardless, I hope you all enjoy my compare/contrast of CinemaSins and CinemaWins. Now, it's time to address what I like to call "The Log Argument". I'm exhausted of sequel trilogy discourse, if you like the movies more power to you. I've said more than my share over the years, I just don't think they're very well made films. But here's why Obi-Wan sitting on a log in "Return of the Jedi" doesn't prove force ghosts can interact with the world: Obi-Wan's force ghost isn't "sitting on a log" in the same way he isn't "standing on Dagobah". He's not actually there. It's just a visual manifestation of Obi-Wan in the same way that a video call on your phone works. Obi-Wan's role in the story is to continue mentoring Luke because Obi-Wan needs Luke to defeat the Empire. When Luke tells him "I can't kill my own father", Obi-Wan's jaded response is "Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope." The implication obviously being Obi-Wan and Yoda as force ghosts can't just appear in the Emperor's throne room and kill him. Because that isn't a thing that they can do, obviously. Here is the simplest way that I can illustrate this: Luke and Obi-Wan's force ghost are sitting on a log. If for whatever reason Luke decided to slap Obi-Wan's force ghost in the face, do you earnestly believe his force ghost would react in pain to being slapped, or do you think Luke's hand would phase through him? The original trilogy and prequel trilogy give the audience every impression the latter outcome would occur rather than the former. But in "The Last Jedi" Yoda's force ghost literally hits Luke with his cane and Luke reacts to being hit. That combined with Yoda literally summoning lighting to blow up a tree makes you question why they've been serving as mentors to living Jedi rather than killing Imperial troops themselves. The log argument doesn't make any sense guys. It just doesn't.
i think ani sins does it the best in their sao season one part 1 and 2 and season 2 since they are bad media with good action scenes but bad plot moments he can sin away at very obvious things
@@littleredruri and overwhelming positivity handwaving obviously bad stuff is somehow better? you'd be a great teacher/parent I enjoyed SAO and transformers but I can enjoy a video pointing out what's bad about it When I write my novels I very much appreciate the way videos like these (NOT CINEMA SINS) they lay down all the flaws and pothole's in the story in a fun educational video and show what not to do and videos that praise media and books exist and I consume both are good if you cant appreciate one just don't watch those types of videos if it was TRULY bad it wouldn't have an audience
@turtle7227 "if it was truly bad it wouldn't have an audience" is really funny in a comment talking about two of the most successful shit franchises of all time, Transformers and SAO. But you're right, I simply shouldn't consume content I don't like. As a writer myself I can completely understand where you're coming from. As a consumer of media... yeah, i mostly just prefer the positive stuff. If you're looking for good writing youtubers btw, i highly recommend LocalScriptMan. His videos have basically been my textbook on writing fiction, I wouldn't be anywhere near as confident in my craft if not for him.
I'd still argue that CinemaWins is better, as they only encourage people to watch movies, while CinemaSins have actively caused people to avoid seeing certain films because they're seen as an authority on the subject.
I think there's another benefit too. When Cinema Wins dings a film the criticism is often a lot more genuine, and not making a reliant on the speaker or a film making a pop culture reference or having a running gag.
I’m with you on this, but some movies don’t deserve your money. That’s the only problem with CinemaWins is that occasionally he’ll defend objectively terrible films and can be a bit rose tinted. Not to say CinemaSins is better, but other channels like Mauler are good at properly critiquing films
Exact same can be said about win who speaks as an authority to the same degree, they both ignore a bunch about the movie it doesn’t matter if one encourages you to watch poor movies
@@spoonkus5893 there's no such thing as objectively terrible you egg. Just because you don't like something that Cinemawins was able to point out the merit it does not mean that Cinemawins is incorrect in seeing the merits. What movie are you even referring to with this criticism of "objectively terrible"?
People say cinema sins is supposed to be a satire on nerdy first year film students or something, but if that were the case, they wouldn't be full of mistakes and bad "jokes," it would be full of accurate, but unimportant, overly nit picky criticisms. Cinema sins is just the guy who goes to a movie and doesn't pay attention and then complains that the movie doesn't make sense.
They have dropped a few gems of a joke a few times but overall they've never really been very funny, just overly contrarion and dickish and wrong@@Idontknowwhattonamemychannel
CinemaWins seems like a film appreciation channel above all else. Rather than critiquing and analyzing them, he just points out any reason to enjoy them, which is a breath of fresh air in our state of the internet when everyone is mad and complaining.
I'd love to see Cinemasins and Cinemawins collaborate on a movie review where they respectively criticize and praise the movie good-cop-bad-cop style and have arguments with each other along the way
YYYYES. And then have it so that the final counter is determining which side has more wins or sins, to declare which side prevails. Obviously it will be all in good fun. And maybe both sides can give their own takes on the film
I do agree with your points, but I think in the case of cinemawins, it mostly boils down to intent. The creator of CinemaWins wanted to exclusively point out the good things movies do and be a mirror to Cinemasins. I think he definitely has the potential and capability to be what you wish Cinemawins to be, but maybe that's not what the creator wants (as seen from the fact that Cinemawins videos improves with each new videos while cinemasins go the opposite way). Cinemawins is already better than Cinemasins in a lot of ways, but unless Lee wants to take his video content to another level, it's not going to change. Plus, if the problem is that viewers may not gain anything beneficial out of the video, then I think Cinemawins is already good the way it is as I have learned a lot from their videos and interested to learn more about the things they pointed out, i.e. Edgar Wright's editing. Regardless, I'm glad you made this video. I didn't notice a lot of stuff that Lee does that may not be accurate or correct, so kudos to you
There's one thing to point out the good. Like, he can clap at actors, sound and the pretty lighting to have that but then he goes out of his way to provide counter arguments and the reach is sometimes just sad
Additionally, Lee reacts better to criticism in general and is more willing to adapt further on his content within its limitations, whilst Jeremy is more than often adamant on reacting aggressively to those who criticize him.
@@bipstymcbipste5641 I agree with this a lot. I find myself really disliking his defenses of certain movies (batman v superman comes to mind) as it feels like he defends the indefensible
As a big fan of CinemaWins, I have noticed some occasional mistakes he's made or how sometimes his intends and approaches to his videos aren't exactly the best, but I overall have so much respect and appreciation for him, and I agree with your points.
I just like the positivity CinemaWins puts out, and he’s not afraid to criticize a film just because he’s the Wins guy, but he does it in a more introspective and constructive manner if he does have a problem with a film. CinemaSins while I used to like him, retrospectively just feels like a negative cesspool of nitpicking of problems that barely matter in a film.
Oh, I 100% prefer Cinemawins. Jeremy's content is mostly "these are problems with this movie, and it's definitely a joke wink wink, no actual criticism here (except when it is) and iT's sAtIRe." I don't believe Lee's actually ever claimed to be a critic. His vibe is just "hey these are things I like about this movie, and these are my interpretations of that might explain the plothole." He lacks the pretensions of his OG counterpart, will acknowledge bad tor problematic things with the film as well, (but won't focus on him because that's not his brand) and then give his honest opinion. Plus, I prefer Lee's infectious enthusiasm!
I would like for cinemasins to basically take a sort of, neutral type of change. Where the cool scenes and epic moments can perhaps help cut down on the sins, while keeping in the good jokes. But, have those jokes not add to the counter. Or, have separate counters for the different types. Say, Joke Counter, Sin Counter and Epic counter
I think both Cinemawins and Cinemasins can become better if: Sins: Focuses on the nitpicks and flaws in a movie that specifically bug them and make jokes that aren't founded on a fragile premise. Wins: Focuses his talents on really good movies that mostly aren't blockbusters or not very good movies. Like I get it, it's his choice to pick the movies he wants to win, but I think he's got amazing talent, and I want him to help people expand their horizons on not just their opinions, but the movies out there. TL:DR, Sins needs to sharpen its writing, Wins needs to expand its horizons.
@@locococo8961 Oh you talking about Cinemasins? I think they're not as bad as everyone says they are, I think their jokes and criticisms need time to develop. They don't have enough breathing room between their videos.
Ive been doing a study on language of opinion and to drastically over generalise, people tend to express negative opinions through objectivity (or by presenting as objective), whereas positive opinions tended to be based in subjevtive lexis For this reason, i would argue cinema sins is significantly worse, as the negative slant demands a greater objectivity and authenticity, whereas cinema wins would largely be allowed to make certain errors, as subjectivity is more permissible in positive scenarios
tl;dr on a majority of the top comments: it’s very ironic that you simultaneously point to CW’s use of false equivalency to artificially create unreasonable wins/negate legitimate nitpicks or critiques only to turn around and finish your video with the conclusion that “neither one did it better because they both *have flaws*”
I’m glad CinemaWins exists, because who doesn’t like positivity? There’s already way too much negativity, we need to balance it out somehow. I’m tired of constantly being bombarded by criticism for everything, Wins is a nice respite from that. So I do think Wins is better than Sins, if only because they’re unique.
I suppose Wins gives better vibes, CinemaWins isn't nitpicking like CinemaSins does. Jeremy from CinemaSins changed too much, before he used to sin something because it was a error, or a shot where you see the cameraman or the logic of the movie is flawed. No he seems to whine about everything and missuses so many things. In his Rogue One video, he complains about the movie changing planets (it's a Star Wats film, you will obviously be changing planets in a movie about a GALAXY far far away), another example es the excesive use of: [Number]Seconds of logos [Something] Cliche [Something] Ex machina Or when he points something at the film and he sins it because he needs to extend de video runtime. Let me show you an example. Character in movie: *Breathes* Jeremy; This character is breathing *Ding* (Or when he asks a question and counts it as a sin) Jeremy: Why is this character breathing? *Ding*. Now, CinemaWins unlike CinemaSins pays more attention to the movie and shows you some subtle but nice details, like when Metroman points at his mother not to tickle him and stuff that are good and subtle details. He often takes the movie as it is, interpreting and understanding the tropes and terms, telling you why the movie is good.
My theory is that negativity was the cooler thing to talk about back in the day since it was seen as something more entertaining than positivity. But it has become a bit oversaturated lately and positivity is starting to get the same treatment as it's something different. At this point, the cycle may just repeat endlessly.
@@reno9821 I’d be surprised if overdone positivity ever passes up overdone negativity again, since the internet absolutely loves negativity. Maybe if a dictator takes away our access to it or something then it’ll happen
@@beyondviolet True, as long as negativity still has as big of a following in the future as it does now, positivity will not be overdone. It's good that positivity has gotten bigger in the past few years, or so it seems.
I take false praise 100 times more often than false criticism. I like it more when some tries to point out the good things about a bad movie than someone pointing out the bad things about a good movie. I might just enjoy positivity more even if its not justified. I am pessimistic enough and dont need more pessimism in the area I enjoy. Which is watching movies and series.
I get your points... But I still prefer CinemaWins to Sins, mainly because Lee does his best to be positive about movies while Jeremy just plays the jerk who I don’t think anyone would like to be around. Heck, if anything, we need positivity in regards to the media and not needless negativity!
CinemaSins to me is just comedy and I think thats the way you should look at it. CinemaWins however is just a beam of positivity to help you appreciate a movie more
For me, it was helpful to learn that you can still thoroughly enjoy a movie while watching someone critique it. Cinemasins for me is just entertainment, and it’s interesting to see a movie through a critic’s eyes. At times, Jeremy does recognize how good a movie is (he called Princess Bride a national treasure in his video about it), which is also good. I do agree that Cinemasins can be overly cynical and annoying, but I don’t think they’re this cancer of RUclips they’re made out to be. Thank you for listening to my TedTalk.
@@Zarkyun You derive enjoyment from boner jokes on Jeremy's past? Cinemasins are hypocrites, their videos are critiques when it suits them and satire when it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.
27:34 honestly, I don’t think the two things are mutually exclusive?? If you’re a film nerd objective stuff like lighting, camera angles and direction can improve your enjoyment of the film, even if it doesn’t for everyone. But if the goal of the channel is to list everything that can be enjoyed, these technical and objective aspects are part of what can be enjoyed by people so they should still be mentioned
id rather have someone come up with an explanation to enjoy a film rather then someone come up with an explanation to hate it positivity is better then hating, but that's just me, I can get behind CW's sort of mentality of 'even bad movies deserve a chance'
I think the main reason why cinemasins is percieved as worse than cinemawins is that cinemasins is almost exclusively negative and cinemawins is almost exclusively positive. As Dom Cobb said “positive emotion trumps negative emotion every time”.
Or fanboys just don’t like their movie being mocked. To be honest, I just watch it for laughs. I never go to a Cinemasins video to get an actual essay about it’s flaws, I just like his jokes and think he has a good sense of humor.
You're flat out wrong about Cinimawins. HE's not trying to critique or review. He's geeking out and sharing that with everyone else. It's always been about that. And people go there to be uplifted.
Movies are made to be watched, and enjoyed. If a channel likes CinemaWins is showing me how to look at the positives of a otherwise (maybe) flawed movie, that's only winning for me. If at the end of the day I can still distinguish good movies from bad movies (if that's even necessary), then I believe " twisting" your own logic or logic in general isn't a bad thing to enjoy something more. These little tangents Lee goes on are definitely comparable to what is done at CinemaSins, not adding anything worth of criticism or substance in general, but with CinemaWins it is presented with a very positive, optimistic attitude, which I prefer watching over a guy who "hates" everything in movies(?)
Enjoyment is subjective. Someone could easily enjoy nitpicking and tearing down a movie. If you like the opposite, all the power to you, but just because CinemaWins is trying to be positive doesn't bail him out of the same kinds of poor criticisms and mistakes that CInemaSins makes. They're both two sides of the same coin. One goes out of their way to unfairly push a movie down, and the other goes out of their way to unfairly pull a movie up. Honestly, CinemaWins annoys me more sometimes. He gives me the impression that he feels he's fulfilling some higher, grand purpose for film criticism when he's really not. At least CinemaSins seems more aware that he's just making nitpicks and jokes. Don't get me wrong. I don't like CinemaSins either. I think both of them are pretty bad. But for the love of god, look at the point Evan showcased at the end where CinemaWins tried to defend Palpatine returning in TRoS by saying 'pretend it's what you wanted and see how you feel'. I don't think CinemaSins has every said anything as ridiculous as that. Anyways, I feel that balanced criticism, looking at both the flaws and the strengths, is better for a film critique (or a critique of anything, really). But like Evan said, if that's their shtick, and they've found an audience, well good for them.
I honestly think that Cinema sins guy doesn't actually hate movies, he just does those videos for content. And it works. They have millions of subs. They are pretty fun to watch
18:39 "Yoda using lightning to burn down a tree in The Last Jedi was the first instance where we saw Force Ghosts being able to interact with the physical world." *Cue clip of Obi-Wan's Force Ghost pushing aside vines on Dagobah*
The logic in this video is unfortunatley pretty flawed, arguing that CinemaWins is not better than CinemaSins because they too make mistakes when you yourself admit that their scripts and other video aspects are superior in this very video makes no sense. They don't need to be perfect or even good necessarily to be the superior channel, and while most criticisms levied here are valid and worth talking about, the central thesis that both are equally bad makes zero sense. Just because both are flawed doesn't mean that "neither does it better"
Okay so about the Star Wars thing. Force Ghosts were slowly revealed to do more than we thought possible. In A New Hope they were just voices, in Empire Strikes Back they can show themselves as Ethereal beings, in Return of the Jedi Obi-wan sits down on a log while talking to Luke which is our first hint that Force Ghosts can interact with the physical world. Then in The Last Jedi we see the culmination of this with Yoda summoning lightning to strike the tree and finally in Rise of Skywalker Luke straight up touches and holds a lightsaber despite being dead. This is very clear to see just by watching and observing. It doesn't matter how much you might hate these movies, I myself don't like Rise of Skywalker much either, but that doesn't change that everything about Force Ghosts makes sense if you're paying attention. When it's all said and done CinemaSins is an embarrassment to the film medium and only exists to make money and for no other reason. CinemWins is a celebration of film, someone sharing his love and passion for the medium with as many people as possible. There's no way you can tell me that's as bad as CinemaSins.
I like CinemaWins more because I don't need to see any more negativity than I already do. I feel like consuming negative opinions just for the sake of it being negative puts people, if not then just me, into a bad headspace.
The way I see it, CinemaSins isnt satire or real criticism or video essays, it’s just entertainment the likes of pitch meeting, honest trailers, hishe etc
Focusing on the formula is about the simplest way to connect the two channels, so that's understandable. But it's also a very shallow element, totally surface level, and I think it can lead one to missing so much of the actual reasons why Cinemasins sucks so hard. bobvids' video is really good at getting into those fundamental, underlying reasons found in the channel's business model (clickbait) and philosophy for how to discuss movies. Now this video brings up more bad things about CS than just pointing to the format, but when it comes to Cinemawins it definitely misses the mark. Painting it in any way as a situation of "both sides are equally bad" (like this were a centrist political video) is doing a disservice to both channels. Whereas with Cinemawins any factual errors come as honest mistakes, with CS they are very much part of the style and aesthetic. The lack of caring that is communicated is the same as with the casual jokes that make up such a big portion of the videos while doing nothing to critique the film. Not to suggest that the errors are intentional, that would be letting CS off with the Tommy Wisseau defense. But the point I'm making is instead that the mistakes are a part of the channel. It has never been improved and they continue to plague their videos like 8 years later. The channel doesn't care to change or better itself because the way the videos are written and the movies examined are what they're going for. This is not the case at all with Cinemawins. Also, why bring up the stated purpose of Cinemawins as a channel but not do the same for CS? If this is a comparative analysis between the two, the fact that there are numerous contradictory statements from the creators of the latter about to what extent it is actual film criticism, or jokes, or to what extent the complaints are real or just them "doing a character", would seem to be relevant in making a solid comparison. Most of what I mention here is addressed in this video itself, so I have to congratulate the video on being thorough and looking at the multiple different aspects of the channel and how the topics raised can be interpreted, it is quite a well structured video in that regard. But the conclusion, as well as the presentation, still makes the equivalency between the channels that is so strange to me. Despite problems pointed out with Cinemawins here, it doesn't seem to follow how that makes it equal with CS in terms of being a bad channel. Like the whole argument here is that people like bobvids and the channel audience are wrong for praising Cinemawins as a superior channel to CS. And how is this disproven? Rather it seems to be confirmed just from the acknowledgement that the former makes good, insightful commentary and critique on the quality of films at times, when this is something the latter is so completely bereft of. The conclusion thus is just wrong, plain and simple. The magnitude of issues with CS and how the good parts/bad parts scales in comparison to them. In that way this video seems to work as like apologetics for Cinemasins more than anything else. In the same way as someone might come to a Cinemawins video having heard the complaints about a movie and then being presented with reasons why it's not necesarily so bad, someone who has seen bobvids or Shaun's videos on Cinemasins might come to this video having heard the arguments against that channel and here be told that it's not so bad, that the channel is at least on par with it's most direct antithesis. And that I take issue with. It seems like you have an issue with the criticism of Cinemasins you present that ends with "Stop watching cinemasins" and as something toxic for moviegoers and for film criticism. If that's so, it would be best to adress it directly, since the conclusion of this video is so much more positively framed towards Cinemasins as harmless and something which has found an audience that likes it for what it is. Anyway, I also think it's inaccurate to describe Cinemawins as just trying to say all movies are good, giving a purely positive appraisal of them. The way it uses the format, which is a lot better than CS imo, rather makes it clear that the channel is about taking all the individual positive elements from a film and presenting that. Not the films quality in it's entirety or as he says "objectively" but the aspects of the film individually.
I think you explained perfectly why most people believe CinemaWins makes better and depper analysis of movies than CS, and also why they are not equal. V nice comment bro
@@vallraffs Jesus you wrote a lot. I think both are good, and i just like cinema sins because they are fun to watch, and it can be amusing to hear someone complain about blockbuster movies. I don't really care about the facts. However, in my opinion, what is better then BOTH channels are Screen Rants pitch meetings. I think they are so genius, and in my opinion more clever then either sins or wins. Check it out, Ryan George is hilarious
Regarding the waterfall in A Quiet Place (16:30), even if we agree that they SHOULD move to the waterfall there are still reasonable people who disagree, and if not, it seems reasonable that the people in the movie may have not recognised the value. I don't understand why an arguably poor decision is necessarily a plot hole.
18:25 Regarding the Force Ghost, that is *technically* inaccurate as we do see Obi-Wan sit down on a log. Also I remember an explanation where it was like, the more life = the more lifelike the Force Ghosts are. Ach-To is an ocean with islands. That place is teeming with life.
I rarely watch cinemasins or cinemawins but when I do I can enjoy both, I don’t watch either channel for an actual review or to decide if I should watch the movie I have other ways of finding that out. I usually watch cinemasins for the dry humor and entertainment value I can see its flaws but I can look past those so that I can enjoy the content. I watch cinemawins when I’m looking for a slightly more comprehensive and more appreciative video on a movie, I usually watch cinemawins videos on movies I’m a fan of so I can share my appreciation of the movie with someone. Both channels are entertaining from time to time and I do enjoy both, but I completely understand how some people don’t like them
"Hey, maybe Anakin mind-trick padmé without even knowing...though she may fall for him" - CinemaWins AOTC "Revenge of the Sith is a movie where the good far outweights the bad" - CinemaWins ROTS. In comparison too the movies before or to every film ever made. Explain me more! What do you mean? Really the third act of Revenge of the Sith is really rough. CinemaSins: Fuel - the biggest problem of The Last Jedi (iam joking i just never ever watched a Star Wars video from CinemaSins). There are far better Sin videos for the Star Wars trilogy...eh, i mean more entertaining. *The language is without guarantee I didn't check those videos again because i don't want. And hi Mr Anomaly Inc
CinemaWins is thought provoking, corrects himself and willing defend the value of garbage, even things he himself finds as garbage. That takes more time and effort then going “logo’s exist” (ding)
The very first thing we are ever told about the concept of Force Ghosts is "Strike me down and I will become more powerful then you could possibly imagine", I always ALWAYS assumed they could do more then what'd seen and simply weren't because of some silly "the mortals need to solve their own problems" nonsense, that was my assumption before the Prequels existed much less the Sequels, before I'd seen even Empire. Here's the thing, I'm a rare type of Star Wars fan who ONLY really likes the Prequels, I don't' like the OT much or the ST, but I will speak out agaisnt unfair criticism of even movies I don't like and all this "Force Ghosts couldn't do that before" whining is exactly that.
Just because the force ghost can be somewhere, doesnt mean it has the same power. From my understanding of the larger lore in general, his interpretation is probably closer to correct than incorrect. I mean, hela doesnt disappear away from asgard, she just gets weaker.
0:18 you said "they have well over 8 million subscribers" this video is literally unwatchable It would have been more accurate to say they have almost 9 million subscribers Also at 28:44 you say we shouldn't sugar coat things when that is exactly what keeps us safe from Diabeto
I’d like a collab where they both do each other’s scripts. So cinemawins gets a sins script and the sins get the wins script and then they do the video.
I hope I don’t think your assessment is necessarily wrong I feel like taken a purely objective look at sins and wins’ formats is doing it the wrong way. I feel what actually separates them is intent, I remember once in a video Lee said that he started Cinemawins with the mission statement “ every movie is at least one person’s favorite” and he clearly cares about filmmaking as a whole more than Sins does
Oh my, OH MY! Editing and writing are superb. Sound, with the exception of a couple of minor cutoffs or drownouts (tell southpaw to fix your mic XD) combined with that smooth voice creates great ambience. Great to see someone aptly articulate so many of the issues and misconceptions with these two channels. Stay massive and may the Don bless you and this video!
Cinemasins is just an asshole being an asshole to movies, not really any real criticism just "this is bad" Cinemawins reminds us that movies can still be fun, even if they have issues, even if they have a "low win count" the movies can just be fun still, even bad movies can be fun It all comes down to the idea behind the channels, Sins goes in to find things to complain about, Wins goes in to find things to praise, one of those will lead to enjoying movies much more
This is good, thanks for sharing it with me. I enjoy how you wrap up CW's issues, I've never really paid attention before. I like movies for movies sake, as well--I'm not likely to be the one MST3K'ing in the front row about plot contrivances, but you're absolutely right that this doesn't excuse those mistakes.
@@4everhls Oh damn, that's 7 months ago o.O It has to be one of those EFAP covered at that time or earlier, because I did not watch anything on his channel. In case you don't know EFAP: EFAP is a Podcast hosted by MauLer and Rags, they watch video essays and respond to them live. (Oh and if you heard negative things about them, give it a shot anyways, usually someone who engages honestly with their content know that the people are lying about them) If the podcasts would be too long for you that is totally fine of course. Ok it might be the followings: 1. The Rise of Skywalker 2. Joker 3. TLJ My bet is on the Rise of Skywalker one, but I am not entirely sure. Tell me if you found it there, if not I'll look out more.
I mean to be fair, I don't think that we should expect Cinemawins to be as technical as a professional movie critic. He's just there for the laughs. Same reason as to why there are no conclusion at the end of his vids. I really hate how he makes movies seem worsr than they are though. His content should be harmless and light imo since that is where he fits in.
Evan, this video solidified why you are my favorite content creator on RUclips: you make accurate assessments based on the information present, you create entertaining criticism through great editing and scripting techniques, and you reach conclusions that are fair and understandable. Plus, you are fair to both sides and recognize that they both CAN offer valuable insight, but that they just seemingly choose not to most of the time. Keep up the fantastic work with your videos dude!
I had just a minor confusion over the title. I was almost worried you'd argue that nobody *on RUclips* does it better than Wins and Sins. Turns out, it's fine 😂
@Sean Macguire my point is that if they lived safely and comfortably at the waterfall, you wouldn’t love the movie because there would be no conflict in the story. It would just be a movie about living in a house by a waterfall. There would be no movie.
@@maximillion322 But the plot of the movie hinges on a set of circumstances that does not involve an element like the waterfall. So why the hell is the waterfall in the movie in the first place? An analogy: Our protagonists need to get from one story to the upper one of a building they are inside, but the staircase has collapsed. They build a ladder to climb up there, at some great cost to themselves. During this time, a fully functional elevator lift, that goes from their floor to the one they want to get to, is shown and the protagonists know of it and they can use it at a minor cost to themselves. They still construct the ladder. Does it not seem ridiculous for the protagonists to continue using the ladder? If it does, then there is a plot-hole because they could just have used the elevator. If it does not, then why is the elevator in the story in the first place?
@@TheJarlOfJyttland good point. Why are the Great Eagles in LOTR if not to just fly the Fellowship to Mt. Doom in an afternoon and be done with it before Saruman can rase an army?
@@maximillion322 Simple answer: Nazguls. But you bringing it up in response to the waterfall in A Quiet Place reveals to me that you acknowledge that it is a plot-hole for that movie. And if that is true, then why are you giving that movie's script the defense of stupidity?
@@TheJarlOfJyttland it is a plothole. The optimal solution would be to cut that scene entirely. But as long as it exists, my point is that it’s better to have an otherwise great movie with a slight plot hole than no movie at all.
Sorry it’s not even comparable. CinemaWins is just a channel that actually has a fun time and you don’t feel like killing yourself by the end of it. God forbid people like things anymore.
Good video, my man. I think the biggest problem with each channel is, that the purpose of their videos seems to shift based on whatever they want at any given time, while keeping the same well-worn format. This is why each of their fanbases are really defensive in saying "It's X but you're treating it as Y", or "it's Y but you're treating it as X" simultaneously. I think at the final point where you summed yourself up, you could have used a side-by-side visual comparison of the flaws of each channel.
CinemaWins is one of my favorite channels honestly. Not just the positivity but the fact that he will remove wins for certain issues if they are genuine issues. That balance is much more enjoyable to watch than consistent negativity with zero constructive criticism.
1. Its not complaining. Hes not saying "thats wrong wtf is wrong with you guys" he clearly says "this is not the best way to show movies doing stuff good/bad" 2. Its called examples, not nitpicks
I don’t see the problem with their channels. At first I was one of those guys who hated cinemasins for the annoying and stupid criticisms, but then I realized that was the point. Cinemasins is just an overly negative satire of film criticism. Cinemawins is an overly positive praise of films. Both of these channels are designed to promote two sides, I think your video has a point but it’s a point that ultimately is deep for no reason. These channels are not really film essays; they’re fun ways to appreciate film and make fun of it. I think both of their channels do what they’re were meant to do.
I want to make a counter point to you saying Cain had no indication that he should get away from the egg. Firstly, droplets of moister seemingly defying the laws of gravity, plus the weird movement in the egg is enough to know this isn’t safe. Then once it opens, instead of trying to get away he sticks his face in it to get a closer look. Now I love Alien but the point is people are dumb and curiosity can get you killed in these situations, especially if your in a space on your own here. And to act like the scientists in Prometheus should know better is fair but also misses the point. Plenty of experts do stupid things that get them killed. Look at the demon core. Even after the same mistakes had happened repeatedly, scientists still kept doing them and its why people died as a result of thoes failures. Moral of the story, Smart people will and can do stupid things.
I simply disagree because I don't see Cinemas Sins as a movie review type thing. I watch it because sometimes it makes me chuckle. It's a shlop, a channel through and through
I love both channels, and I think cinema sins takes on movies are taken too seriously. I watch their channel for laughs at bad movies, and I don't care whether the sins are for actual complaints, as if that was all cinema sins did I think their videos might fall a bit flat. Cinema wins is just a good channel too imo
I really don't think there's ANY issue with their "content". Both channels have funny enjoyable content to watch. It's not like they are deciding your opinion on the movie for you.
i just listen to cinemasins for the voice of jeremy and.... for the warm and fuzzy feeling i get when they remove sins...it makes me feel like....when something is so good, so perfect....you cannot criticize or poke at it even though thats the only thing you live for
Yeah, I think it makes it more meaningful when a channel dedicated to comedic criticism points out good qualities. Like if you want to watch a channel break down why good films are good, there are plenty of commentary channels that do that. If you want to break down superhero or other action films, there are channels that do that. CinemaSins is meant to emulate watching a movie with friends over beers where you poke fun at it. It's not meant to be serious film criticism, so I'm not sure why some people get so offended when he makes jabs at movies.
@@zekromx101 Even then, that's a pretty fat statement that Lee made considering the status of lord of the rings as one of the best trilogies ever made. To bluntly throw out a statement like that without anything to back it up, it makes him look like he's really desperate to defend his schtick. The implication that there's a thin line between a great movie and a terrible movie is seriously dumb
I don't take CinemaSins seriously but, he has a few good videos like his video on DBE, Transformers 4, & Batman and Robin. His videos on The Room and Troll 2 are hilarious.
Glad this comparison exists, really. For how popular both of these channels are, its kinda weird how little they're mentioned in the same sentence. I think this essay kinda missed the point though. The reason these channels are both so great is because of their personality and sense of humor. People don't come to cinemasins to know everything wrong about movies they like, they want entertainment surrounding their favorite entertainment. Shouldn't be taken so seriously, just my take.
You'll be giant one day. Really appreciate that you keep a fine distinction between a subjective opinion of yours and an objective criticism of whatever you are analyzing, unlike so many other review channels.
18:25...Fun fact: in episode 6 when Force ghost Obi-Wan approaches Luke Skywalker in dagobah he actually did interact with The Vines... I am not proud of retaining this useless knowledge
Jeremy invents problems, tells a "Joke", then dings the ding. There are running gags that aren't really problems but are treated as such. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the slew of Logos at the beginning of films either but they aren't that bad. Bills still need to be paid and credit still needs to be given. Also, bold of Jeremy to criticise "Pointless crap" at the beginning of media, then have a minute of that same "pointless crap" at the beginning of his videos. Films having similar concepts to other films isn't a Sin. There is a reason that those tropes exist, it works. His oldest stuff, where his videos were less than 10 minutes, was arguably his best content. As Th3Birdman puts it "You padding the Sin Count?" And yet I still find myself watching films in a cinema and thinking "Narration" or "That's Racist" during it or by extension, thinking about how will Th3Birdman counter the inevitable Sins video. Lee invents Wins too, to be fair. He isn't above making the odd running joke too, but, for whatever reason, it doesn't feel as forced (I, too, appreciate a beautiful beard). Maybe I prefer more positivity in my life. Also, as far as I am aware, Lee has never requested a lapdance during his videos. As for Padding the Win Count, his most egregious video has to be the Endgame one. Yes, it was exclusively to get that number up to 3000 for the joke, but it doesn't feel as bad as when Sins does it. I watch both still (Wins way more than Sins admittedly), but I'm not about to base my probability of consuming media off of either of their "reviews". Of the two, I definitely prefer Wins.
I found myself watching this video in frustration as I kept trying to undermine your critiques of Cinema Wins as obviously I knew "which was the better channel". Ultimately, I realized through the course of the video that I was simply conflating "which channel is a better channel" with "which channel is a better film critique channel". While I still have my strong opinions about the former question, I appreciate you levelly presenting the latter question in such a way that I can now take a better developed stance!
Reminder that Jeremy is a grown ass man who tackles his mid-life crisis by being the embodiment of that one person who never shuts up while watching a movie and actively chooses to ask questions instead of staying quiet and letting the movie answer their questions.
Cinema Sins is obviously a joke. In every video they pick fun at themselves with some of the points you made in this video. Their goal is not to properly critique a film, it is to entertain the viewer! You take clips of their videos that are clearly for laughs and use it to show evidence on why they are bad/misleading. They say over and over again that they are not being serious and it is all just a joke. The sin counter at the end is not really supposed to show the film's credibility but to add another layer of parody. The idea of Cinema Sins is to give the viewers something to watch and make them laugh. Most of Cinema Sins viewers don't really care about the movie just about the narrator's commentary. They never set out to objectify the film they are trying to make people laugh. *And most of it is parody (also why did I write this?)
I think you are taking these light hearted channels a bit too seriously... But then again so am I because I spent ten minutes writing a rebottle that no one will see...
But there are people who will make a counter-claim to this, saying something along the lines of, “But there are plenty of instances where he says things that are blatantly false or misleading, and then tries to cover it up as joke, even though you could tell by the tone in the video that it was meant to be a ‘serious criticism’. They are just using it as an excuse to hide the fact that they suck and have bad writing.” One guy also said something along the lines of, “He has tried to pass himself off before as an actual critic, which would imply that he makes serious criticisms at least some of the time, yet a lot of the time these serious criticisms are simply false.”
The last day of 7th grade, one boy in my class thought it'd be funny to say something to insult another boy's mom, the insulted boy punched through the glass of our classroom door. Both were suspended.
The idea that anyone would build a whole channel around either heaping criticism on every movie equally and arbitrarily, or heaping praise on every movie equally and arbitrarily is baffling to me. Can you even consider yourself a movie critic if you don't discriminate between good and bad films? Also, good video. I'm gonna go rewatch Fincher's The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo because it's brilliant, and then proceed to cry because the trilogy will never be completed.
There's a Film Theory that presents up with an interesting explanation as to how Force Ghosts work and why they don't help more: ruclips.net/video/lqMYMtZ8qSk/видео.html
I mean don't get me wrong, this is an amazing video but I have always gotten the feeling that Lee created his channel to spread positivity and to criticise him so harsh seems really unfair to me, mainly because I feel like CW doesn't take itself that serious... its there to be positive and to provide a mirror to CS, in my opinion it doesn't NEED to be accurate or 100% objective, the "jup", or Brutal" - wins criticised in this video are there to lighten up the mood and show what Lee likes about the movie. Not to be seen as a serious base of argumentation for the movie, but more of a "hey that was cool! and that too, this movie is fun!"I can't say much about the critique on CinemaSins because I don't really watch his videos. This being said I think that this video did an amazing job at criticising both channels, and had not only a beautiful structure and writing style but also an amazing sound and editing quality. Truly great work. I don't know if anyone is doing to be reading this considering I'm quite late to the party and this comment might get buried anyway, but in CinemaWins' spirit I hope whoever reads this has a lovely day/night that's filled with positivity.
Cinema-sins and Cinema-wins: Doppio and Diavolo. Seemingly different personalities inhabiting the same being. One seemingly less awful than the other at first, but upon closer inspection, neither of them are what you would call good.
@@Party_Almsivi fuck mauler Having a stand with the power of requiem would be so cool he could really get points down and finish a lot in such a small spand i wonder what the abilty would be though irl instead of reversing time like GER
Even if Cinemawins commits many of the same mistakes as cinemasins, i think people just like him more because unlike Jeremy, Lee isn't an arrogant pretentious asshole.
The main problem with the sins/wins format is they are extremes. Sins looks for stuff to call out so hard that he’s blinded and often makes mistakes. Wins is only ever looking to praise movies even if he knows they’re not good.
even if cinemasins and cinemawins are doing the exact same things, cinemasins is worse because they're actively encouraging people to not watch movies. cinemawins is encouraging people to watch movies.
2:22 or as Spider-Man would say, '"You remember that old movie with the clone dinosaurs that could open doors, and there was that Indiana Jones guy who was like 'clever girl!' just before he got mauled? Well what if WE were the dinosaurs? I mean not like the whole eating people thing because that would just be weird, but..." 😂
Looks like this one is getting a bit more viewership after a few years being under the radar. Glad to see the comments section is filled with people who are fans of either channel. I really think there's a time and place for CinemaSins style videos, they can be really entertaining to watch when done right. I just think you should be clear with what you're trying to do in your videos, and perhaps add a bit more than whimsical jokes and jabs, positive or negative. Regardless, I hope you all enjoy my compare/contrast of CinemaSins and CinemaWins.
Now, it's time to address what I like to call "The Log Argument". I'm exhausted of sequel trilogy discourse, if you like the movies more power to you. I've said more than my share over the years, I just don't think they're very well made films. But here's why Obi-Wan sitting on a log in "Return of the Jedi" doesn't prove force ghosts can interact with the world:
Obi-Wan's force ghost isn't "sitting on a log" in the same way he isn't "standing on Dagobah". He's not actually there. It's just a visual manifestation of Obi-Wan in the same way that a video call on your phone works. Obi-Wan's role in the story is to continue mentoring Luke because Obi-Wan needs Luke to defeat the Empire. When Luke tells him "I can't kill my own father", Obi-Wan's jaded response is "Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope." The implication obviously being Obi-Wan and Yoda as force ghosts can't just appear in the Emperor's throne room and kill him. Because that isn't a thing that they can do, obviously.
Here is the simplest way that I can illustrate this: Luke and Obi-Wan's force ghost are sitting on a log. If for whatever reason Luke decided to slap Obi-Wan's force ghost in the face, do you earnestly believe his force ghost would react in pain to being slapped, or do you think Luke's hand would phase through him? The original trilogy and prequel trilogy give the audience every impression the latter outcome would occur rather than the former. But in "The Last Jedi" Yoda's force ghost literally hits Luke with his cane and Luke reacts to being hit. That combined with Yoda literally summoning lighting to blow up a tree makes you question why they've been serving as mentors to living Jedi rather than killing Imperial troops themselves.
The log argument doesn't make any sense guys. It just doesn't.
please tell me a significant portion of this video isn't dedicated to cinemawins's opinions of the star wars sequels...
i think ani sins does it the best in their sao season one part 1 and 2 and season 2 since they are bad media with good action scenes but bad plot moments he can sin away at very obvious things
@@turtle7227 cinemasins does the same thing with shit like transformers. Generally negativity just isn't as cool.
@@littleredruri and overwhelming positivity handwaving obviously bad stuff is somehow better? you'd be a great teacher/parent I enjoyed SAO and transformers but I can enjoy a video pointing out what's bad about it
When I write my novels I very much appreciate the way videos like these (NOT CINEMA SINS) they lay down all the flaws and pothole's in the story in a fun educational video and show what not to do and videos that praise media and books exist and I consume both are good if you cant appreciate one just don't watch those types of videos if it was TRULY bad it wouldn't have an audience
@turtle7227 "if it was truly bad it wouldn't have an audience" is really funny in a comment talking about two of the most successful shit franchises of all time, Transformers and SAO. But you're right, I simply shouldn't consume content I don't like. As a writer myself I can completely understand where you're coming from. As a consumer of media... yeah, i mostly just prefer the positive stuff.
If you're looking for good writing youtubers btw, i highly recommend LocalScriptMan. His videos have basically been my textbook on writing fiction, I wouldn't be anywhere near as confident in my craft if not for him.
I'd still argue that CinemaWins is better, as they only encourage people to watch movies, while CinemaSins have actively caused people to avoid seeing certain films because they're seen as an authority on the subject.
I think there's another benefit too. When Cinema Wins dings a film the criticism is often a lot more genuine, and not making a reliant on the speaker or a film making a pop culture reference or having a running gag.
Wtf why would i not watch a movie because a trio of bald guys took a piss of it about a missing window lmao
I’m with you on this, but some movies don’t deserve your money. That’s the only problem with CinemaWins is that occasionally he’ll defend objectively terrible films and can be a bit rose tinted. Not to say CinemaSins is better, but other channels like Mauler are good at properly critiquing films
Exact same can be said about win who speaks as an authority to the same degree, they both ignore a bunch about the movie it doesn’t matter if one encourages you to watch poor movies
@@spoonkus5893 there's no such thing as objectively terrible you egg. Just because you don't like something that Cinemawins was able to point out the merit it does not mean that Cinemawins is incorrect in seeing the merits. What movie are you even referring to with this criticism of "objectively terrible"?
People say cinema sins is supposed to be a satire on nerdy first year film students or something, but if that were the case, they wouldn't be full of mistakes and bad "jokes," it would be full of accurate, but unimportant, overly nit picky criticisms. Cinema sins is just the guy who goes to a movie and doesn't pay attention and then complains that the movie doesn't make sense.
This video was 3 years ago when they used to actually be funny
They have dropped a few gems of a joke a few times but overall they've never really been very funny, just overly contrarion and dickish and wrong@@Idontknowwhattonamemychannel
I think that's the point lmao, unless they just hate all movies, is just to knock a movie with "sins" for random shot
@@connerolson9618 Like how hard is it for people to understand that cinemasins is to not be taken seriously. it's actually insane.
@@Idontknowwhattonamemychannel
People had these exact complaints 4 years ago.
CinemaWins seems like a film appreciation channel above all else. Rather than critiquing and analyzing them, he just points out any reason to enjoy them, which is a breath of fresh air in our state of the internet when everyone is mad and complaining.
I'd love to see Cinemasins and Cinemawins collaborate on a movie review where they respectively criticize and praise the movie good-cop-bad-cop style and have arguments with each other along the way
YYYYES. And then have it so that the final counter is determining which side has more wins or sins, to declare which side prevails. Obviously it will be all in good fun. And maybe both sides can give their own takes on the film
I doubt Sins would do that, they'd probably sooner strike CinemaWins down for being a "baseless copy and an Ex Machina"
That would be fun to watch.
Noooooooooooooooo
that’s a cool idea but frankly sins would get creamed no matter what
Birdman said it best: "you padding the sin count, bro?"
*Crunch crunch
"I think you're padding the sin count."
*Ding
Lime toastedos
@@gioigdodisk7460God, I loved him.
I do agree with your points, but I think in the case of cinemawins, it mostly boils down to intent. The creator of CinemaWins wanted to exclusively point out the good things movies do and be a mirror to Cinemasins. I think he definitely has the potential and capability to be what you wish Cinemawins to be, but maybe that's not what the creator wants (as seen from the fact that Cinemawins videos improves with each new videos while cinemasins go the opposite way). Cinemawins is already better than Cinemasins in a lot of ways, but unless Lee wants to take his video content to another level, it's not going to change. Plus, if the problem is that viewers may not gain anything beneficial out of the video, then I think Cinemawins is already good the way it is as I have learned a lot from their videos and interested to learn more about the things they pointed out, i.e. Edgar Wright's editing.
Regardless, I'm glad you made this video. I didn't notice a lot of stuff that Lee does that may not be accurate or correct, so kudos to you
There's one thing to point out the good. Like, he can clap at actors, sound and the pretty lighting to have that but then he goes out of his way to provide counter arguments and the reach is sometimes just sad
Additionally, Lee reacts better to criticism in general and is more willing to adapt further on his content within its limitations, whilst Jeremy is more than often adamant on reacting aggressively to those who criticize him.
@@bipstymcbipste5641 I agree with this a lot. I find myself really disliking his defenses of certain movies (batman v superman comes to mind) as it feels like he defends the indefensible
As a big fan of CinemaWins, I have noticed some occasional mistakes he's made or how sometimes his intends and approaches to his videos aren't exactly the best, but I overall have so much respect and appreciation for him, and I agree with your points.
@@margogoralski6294 and Lee usually corrects it, while Jeremy acts like he did absolutely denies he's done anything.
I just like the positivity CinemaWins puts out, and he’s not afraid to criticize a film just because he’s the Wins guy, but he does it in a more introspective and constructive manner if he does have a problem with a film. CinemaSins while I used to like him, retrospectively just feels like a negative cesspool of nitpicking of problems that barely matter in a film.
Oh, I 100% prefer Cinemawins. Jeremy's content is mostly "these are problems with this movie, and it's definitely a joke wink wink, no actual criticism here (except when it is) and iT's sAtIRe."
I don't believe Lee's actually ever claimed to be a critic. His vibe is just "hey these are things I like about this movie, and these are my interpretations of that might explain the plothole." He lacks the pretensions of his OG counterpart, will acknowledge bad tor problematic things with the film as well, (but won't focus on him because that's not his brand) and then give his honest opinion.
Plus, I prefer Lee's infectious enthusiasm!
Bless you, I agree
Although from time to time Sins comes up with legitimately great sins
Yep. He's great.
I would like for cinemasins to basically take a sort of, neutral type of change. Where the cool scenes and epic moments can perhaps help cut down on the sins, while keeping in the good jokes. But, have those jokes not add to the counter. Or, have separate counters for the different types. Say, Joke Counter, Sin Counter and Epic counter
Jeremy would say, and has said, we're not critics we'ra assholes.
@@jeremydyar7566 well, it would take one to know it, wouldn't it?
I think both Cinemawins and Cinemasins can become better if:
Sins: Focuses on the nitpicks and flaws in a movie that specifically bug them and make jokes that aren't founded on a fragile premise.
Wins: Focuses his talents on really good movies that mostly aren't blockbusters or not very good movies. Like I get it, it's his choice to pick the movies he wants to win, but I think he's got amazing talent, and I want him to help people expand their horizons on not just their opinions, but the movies out there.
TL:DR, Sins needs to sharpen its writing, Wins needs to expand its horizons.
@@locococo8961 Oh you talking about Cinemasins? I think they're not as bad as everyone says they are, I think their jokes and criticisms need time to develop. They don't have enough breathing room between their videos.
Cinemawins made a video about everything great about 'GODS OF EGYPT'...GODS OF EGYPT
@@theG00N-G0BLIN oh my god that's a reach. She says. Having seen that movie more than once.
"Pretend that you liked it (TROS) and see how you liked it"...
Wins is garbage just like sins.
From time to time Sins actually comes up with brilliant sins
Ive been doing a study on language of opinion and to drastically over generalise, people tend to express negative opinions through objectivity (or by presenting as objective), whereas positive opinions tended to be based in subjevtive lexis
For this reason, i would argue cinema sins is significantly worse, as the negative slant demands a greater objectivity and authenticity, whereas cinema wins would largely be allowed to make certain errors, as subjectivity is more permissible in positive scenarios
tl;dr on a majority of the top comments: it’s very ironic that you simultaneously point to CW’s use of false equivalency to artificially create unreasonable wins/negate legitimate nitpicks or critiques only to turn around and finish your video with the conclusion that “neither one did it better because they both *have flaws*”
I’m glad CinemaWins exists, because who doesn’t like positivity? There’s already way too much negativity, we need to balance it out somehow. I’m tired of constantly being bombarded by criticism for everything, Wins is a nice respite from that. So I do think Wins is better than Sins, if only because they’re unique.
I suppose Wins gives better vibes, CinemaWins isn't nitpicking like CinemaSins does.
Jeremy from CinemaSins changed too much, before he used to sin something because it was a error, or a shot where you see the cameraman or the logic of the movie is flawed. No he seems to whine about everything and missuses so many things.
In his Rogue One video, he complains about the movie changing planets (it's a Star Wats film, you will obviously be changing planets in a movie about a GALAXY far far away), another example es the excesive use of:
[Number]Seconds of logos
[Something] Cliche
[Something] Ex machina
Or when he points something at the film and he sins it because he needs to extend de video runtime.
Let me show you an example.
Character in movie: *Breathes*
Jeremy; This character is breathing *Ding*
(Or when he asks a question and counts it as a sin)
Jeremy: Why is this character breathing? *Ding*.
Now, CinemaWins unlike CinemaSins pays more attention to the movie and shows you some subtle but nice details, like when Metroman points at his mother not to tickle him and stuff that are good and subtle details. He often takes the movie as it is, interpreting and understanding the tropes and terms, telling you why the movie is good.
My theory is that negativity was the cooler thing to talk about back in the day since it was seen as something more entertaining than positivity. But it has become a bit oversaturated lately and positivity is starting to get the same treatment as it's something different. At this point, the cycle may just repeat endlessly.
@@reno9821 I’d be surprised if overdone positivity ever passes up overdone negativity again, since the internet absolutely loves negativity. Maybe if a dictator takes away our access to it or something then it’ll happen
@@beyondviolet True, as long as negativity still has as big of a following in the future as it does now, positivity will not be overdone. It's good that positivity has gotten bigger in the past few years, or so it seems.
But it's too much
I take false praise 100 times more often than false criticism.
I like it more when some tries to point out the good things about a bad movie than someone pointing out the bad things about a good movie.
I might just enjoy positivity more even if its not justified. I am pessimistic enough and dont need more pessimism in the area I enjoy. Which is watching movies and series.
I get your points... But I still prefer CinemaWins to Sins, mainly because Lee does his best to be positive about movies while Jeremy just plays the jerk who I don’t think anyone would like to be around. Heck, if anything, we need positivity in regards to the media and not needless negativity!
Or both enough with the extremes
No, we don't need positivity more than negativity. People have this idea that being positive is automatically good, when it is neutral at best
@@xolotltolox7626what’s wrong with being neutral lol
@@kaponosucks where did you get neutral = bad from?
@@xolotltolox7626 ummm idk the clown i just replied to
CinemaSins to me is just comedy and I think thats the way you should look at it. CinemaWins however is just a beam of positivity to help you appreciate a movie more
No way anyone fu***ng laughs at jeremey sure i laugh at his channel lol
the problem with Cinimasins being "comedy" is comedy is funny.
For me, it was helpful to learn that you can still thoroughly enjoy a movie while watching someone critique it. Cinemasins for me is just entertainment, and it’s interesting to see a movie through a critic’s eyes. At times, Jeremy does recognize how good a movie is (he called Princess Bride a national treasure in his video about it), which is also good. I do agree that Cinemasins can be overly cynical and annoying, but I don’t think they’re this cancer of RUclips they’re made out to be.
Thank you for listening to my TedTalk.
@@chickadeestevenson5440 "funny" is entirely subjective. I respectfully disagree with your opinion.
@@Zarkyun You derive enjoyment from boner jokes on Jeremy's past? Cinemasins are hypocrites, their videos are critiques when it suits them and satire when it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.
27:34 honestly, I don’t think the two things are mutually exclusive?? If you’re a film nerd objective stuff like lighting, camera angles and direction can improve your enjoyment of the film, even if it doesn’t for everyone. But if the goal of the channel is to list everything that can be enjoyed, these technical and objective aspects are part of what can be enjoyed by people so they should still be mentioned
All arguments aside, it all comes down to entertainment value...yet again
id rather have someone come up with an explanation to enjoy a film rather then someone come up with an explanation to hate it
positivity is better then hating, but that's just me, I can get behind CW's sort of mentality of 'even bad movies deserve a chance'
I think the main reason why cinemasins is percieved as worse than cinemawins is that cinemasins is almost exclusively negative and cinemawins is almost exclusively positive. As Dom Cobb said “positive emotion trumps negative emotion every time”.
Very true
Or fanboys just don’t like their movie being mocked. To be honest, I just watch it for laughs. I never go to a Cinemasins video to get an actual essay about it’s flaws, I just like his jokes and think he has a good sense of humor.
@@gojitsar7505 not really, even watching vids about films I hate on cinemasins I can tell he's full of shit
@@doctordoom1860 Fine then. We all have opinions.
@@gojitsar7505 yes
You're flat out wrong about Cinimawins. HE's not trying to critique or review. He's geeking out and sharing that with everyone else. It's always been about that. And people go there to be uplifted.
i wonder if cinemasins' response to this would be "our sins have no real value because if they did they'd lose their real value"
Pretty sure that point was already made in the EWW Cinema Sins video back in what... 2018? 2017? Somewhere around there.
Movies are made to be watched, and enjoyed. If a channel likes CinemaWins is showing me how to look at the positives of a otherwise (maybe) flawed movie, that's only winning for me. If at the end of the day I can still distinguish good movies from bad movies (if that's even necessary), then I believe " twisting" your own logic or logic in general isn't a bad thing to enjoy something more. These little tangents Lee goes on are definitely comparable to what is done at CinemaSins, not adding anything worth of criticism or substance in general, but with CinemaWins it is presented with a very positive, optimistic attitude, which I prefer watching over a guy who "hates" everything in movies(?)
God, I used to love CinemaSins... until I saw CinemaWins, and now I can’t go back to CinemaSins.
@@jakeb2x266 exactly i dont like nit picking movies it gets annoying i unsubsribed to cinema sins
Enjoyment is subjective. Someone could easily enjoy nitpicking and tearing down a movie. If you like the opposite, all the power to you, but just because CinemaWins is trying to be positive doesn't bail him out of the same kinds of poor criticisms and mistakes that CInemaSins makes. They're both two sides of the same coin. One goes out of their way to unfairly push a movie down, and the other goes out of their way to unfairly pull a movie up.
Honestly, CinemaWins annoys me more sometimes. He gives me the impression that he feels he's fulfilling some higher, grand purpose for film criticism when he's really not. At least CinemaSins seems more aware that he's just making nitpicks and jokes. Don't get me wrong. I don't like CinemaSins either. I think both of them are pretty bad.
But for the love of god, look at the point Evan showcased at the end where CinemaWins tried to defend Palpatine returning in TRoS by saying 'pretend it's what you wanted and see how you feel'. I don't think CinemaSins has every said anything as ridiculous as that.
Anyways, I feel that balanced criticism, looking at both the flaws and the strengths, is better for a film critique (or a critique of anything, really). But like Evan said, if that's their shtick, and they've found an audience, well good for them.
It’s your fault for taking Cinemasins seriously to begin with. You’re supposed to take it as a joke 🤦♀️
I honestly think that Cinema sins guy doesn't actually hate movies, he just does those videos for content. And it works. They have millions of subs. They are pretty fun to watch
18:39 "Yoda using lightning to burn down a tree in The Last Jedi was the first instance where we saw Force Ghosts being able to interact with the physical world."
*Cue clip of Obi-Wan's Force Ghost pushing aside vines on Dagobah*
Hell ghosts shouldn't even be able to walk around considering that would be them disturbing the environment
The logic in this video is unfortunatley pretty flawed, arguing that CinemaWins is not better than CinemaSins because they too make mistakes when you yourself admit that their scripts and other video aspects are superior in this very video makes no sense.
They don't need to be perfect or even good necessarily to be the superior channel, and while most criticisms levied here are valid and worth talking about, the central thesis that both are equally bad makes zero sense.
Just because both are flawed doesn't mean that "neither does it better"
I usually don't watch cinemawins to get a review on a movie, but rather to celebrate what makes that movie good.
Okay so about the Star Wars thing. Force Ghosts were slowly revealed to do more than we thought possible. In A New Hope they were just voices, in Empire Strikes Back they can show themselves as Ethereal beings, in Return of the Jedi Obi-wan sits down on a log while talking to Luke which is our first hint that Force Ghosts can interact with the physical world. Then in The Last Jedi we see the culmination of this with Yoda summoning lightning to strike the tree and finally in Rise of Skywalker Luke straight up touches and holds a lightsaber despite being dead.
This is very clear to see just by watching and observing. It doesn't matter how much you might hate these movies, I myself don't like Rise of Skywalker much either, but that doesn't change that everything about Force Ghosts makes sense if you're paying attention.
When it's all said and done CinemaSins is an embarrassment to the film medium and only exists to make money and for no other reason. CinemWins is a celebration of film, someone sharing his love and passion for the medium with as many people as possible. There's no way you can tell me that's as bad as CinemaSins.
I like CinemaWins more because I don't need to see any more negativity than I already do. I feel like consuming negative opinions just for the sake of it being negative puts people, if not then just me, into a bad headspace.
The way I see it, CinemaSins isnt satire or real criticism or video essays, it’s just entertainment the likes of pitch meeting, honest trailers, hishe etc
Focusing on the formula is about the simplest way to connect the two channels, so that's understandable. But it's also a very shallow element, totally surface level, and I think it can lead one to missing so much of the actual reasons why Cinemasins sucks so hard. bobvids' video is really good at getting into those fundamental, underlying reasons found in the channel's business model (clickbait) and philosophy for how to discuss movies. Now this video brings up more bad things about CS than just pointing to the format, but when it comes to Cinemawins it definitely misses the mark. Painting it in any way as a situation of "both sides are equally bad" (like this were a centrist political video) is doing a disservice to both channels. Whereas with Cinemawins any factual errors come as honest mistakes, with CS they are very much part of the style and aesthetic. The lack of caring that is communicated is the same as with the casual jokes that make up such a big portion of the videos while doing nothing to critique the film. Not to suggest that the errors are intentional, that would be letting CS off with the Tommy Wisseau defense. But the point I'm making is instead that the mistakes are a part of the channel. It has never been improved and they continue to plague their videos like 8 years later. The channel doesn't care to change or better itself because the way the videos are written and the movies examined are what they're going for. This is not the case at all with Cinemawins.
Also, why bring up the stated purpose of Cinemawins as a channel but not do the same for CS? If this is a comparative analysis between the two, the fact that there are numerous contradictory statements from the creators of the latter about to what extent it is actual film criticism, or jokes, or to what extent the complaints are real or just them "doing a character", would seem to be relevant in making a solid comparison.
Most of what I mention here is addressed in this video itself, so I have to congratulate the video on being thorough and looking at the multiple different aspects of the channel and how the topics raised can be interpreted, it is quite a well structured video in that regard. But the conclusion, as well as the presentation, still makes the equivalency between the channels that is so strange to me. Despite problems pointed out with Cinemawins here, it doesn't seem to follow how that makes it equal with CS in terms of being a bad channel. Like the whole argument here is that people like bobvids and the channel audience are wrong for praising Cinemawins as a superior channel to CS. And how is this disproven? Rather it seems to be confirmed just from the acknowledgement that the former makes good, insightful commentary and critique on the quality of films at times, when this is something the latter is so completely bereft of. The conclusion thus is just wrong, plain and simple. The magnitude of issues with CS and how the good parts/bad parts scales in comparison to them.
In that way this video seems to work as like apologetics for Cinemasins more than anything else. In the same way as someone might come to a Cinemawins video having heard the complaints about a movie and then being presented with reasons why it's not necesarily so bad, someone who has seen bobvids or Shaun's videos on Cinemasins might come to this video having heard the arguments against that channel and here be told that it's not so bad, that the channel is at least on par with it's most direct antithesis. And that I take issue with. It seems like you have an issue with the criticism of Cinemasins you present that ends with "Stop watching cinemasins" and as something toxic for moviegoers and for film criticism. If that's so, it would be best to adress it directly, since the conclusion of this video is so much more positively framed towards Cinemasins as harmless and something which has found an audience that likes it for what it is.
Anyway, I also think it's inaccurate to describe Cinemawins as just trying to say all movies are good, giving a purely positive appraisal of them. The way it uses the format, which is a lot better than CS imo, rather makes it clear that the channel is about taking all the individual positive elements from a film and presenting that. Not the films quality in it's entirety or as he says "objectively" but the aspects of the film individually.
Hopefully this comment didn't come across as overly negative or hostile. Wasn't intended to be.
I think you explained perfectly why most people believe CinemaWins makes better and depper analysis of movies than CS, and also why they are not equal. V nice comment bro
@@vallraffs Jesus you wrote a lot. I think both are good, and i just like cinema sins because they are fun to watch, and it can be amusing to hear someone complain about blockbuster movies. I don't really care about the facts. However, in my opinion, what is better then BOTH channels are Screen Rants pitch meetings. I think they are so genius, and in my opinion more clever then either sins or wins. Check it out, Ryan George is hilarious
No he says nobody does it better as in both are terrible
@@Galvatronover hiiisssss
Regarding the waterfall in A Quiet Place (16:30), even if we agree that they SHOULD move to the waterfall there are still reasonable people who disagree, and if not, it seems reasonable that the people in the movie may have not recognised the value. I don't understand why an arguably poor decision is necessarily a plot hole.
18:25 Regarding the Force Ghost, that is *technically* inaccurate as we do see Obi-Wan sit down on a log. Also I remember an explanation where it was like, the more life = the more lifelike the Force Ghosts are. Ach-To is an ocean with islands. That place is teeming with life.
I rarely watch cinemasins or cinemawins but when I do I can enjoy both, I don’t watch either channel for an actual review or to decide if I should watch the movie I have other ways of finding that out. I usually watch cinemasins for the dry humor and entertainment value I can see its flaws but I can look past those so that I can enjoy the content. I watch cinemawins when I’m looking for a slightly more comprehensive and more appreciative video on a movie, I usually watch cinemawins videos on movies I’m a fan of so I can share my appreciation of the movie with someone. Both channels are entertaining from time to time and I do enjoy both, but I completely understand how some people don’t like them
MR MONROE a surprise to be sure but a welcome one
Prequels are good.. bing bong
Prequels are bad.. bong bing
Hi Nomz
"Hey, maybe Anakin mind-trick padmé without even knowing...though she may fall for him" - CinemaWins AOTC
"Revenge of the Sith is a movie where the good far outweights the bad" - CinemaWins ROTS. In comparison too the movies before or to every film ever made.
Explain me more! What do you mean?
Really the third act of Revenge of the Sith is really rough.
CinemaSins: Fuel - the biggest problem of The Last Jedi (iam joking i just never ever watched a Star Wars video from CinemaSins). There are far better Sin videos for the Star Wars trilogy...eh, i mean more entertaining.
*The language is without guarantee
I didn't check those videos again because i don't want.
And hi Mr Anomaly Inc
Congrats on 40k Anomaly!
"The sequel trilogy is the first instance in which we see Force ghosts interact with the real world."
Clone Wars S6E11: You sure about that?
lee is such a likeable guy that i bear with all of his shallow one word wins and whatever else. he just got the best vibe idk
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, JUST WATCH A DAMN MOVIE AND MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND!
someone's angry
CinemaWins is thought provoking, corrects himself and willing defend the value of garbage, even things he himself finds as garbage. That takes more time and effort then going “logo’s exist” (ding)
The very first thing we are ever told about the concept of Force Ghosts is "Strike me down and I will become more powerful then you could possibly imagine", I always ALWAYS assumed they could do more then what'd seen and simply weren't because of some silly "the mortals need to solve their own problems" nonsense, that was my assumption before the Prequels existed much less the Sequels, before I'd seen even Empire.
Here's the thing, I'm a rare type of Star Wars fan who ONLY really likes the Prequels, I don't' like the OT much or the ST, but I will speak out agaisnt unfair criticism of even movies I don't like and all this "Force Ghosts couldn't do that before" whining is exactly that.
Just because the force ghost can be somewhere, doesnt mean it has the same power. From my understanding of the larger lore in general, his interpretation is probably closer to correct than incorrect. I mean, hela doesnt disappear away from asgard, she just gets weaker.
0:18 you said "they have well over 8 million subscribers" this video is literally unwatchable
It would have been more accurate to say they have almost 9 million subscribers
Also at 28:44 you say we shouldn't sugar coat things when that is exactly what keeps us safe from Diabeto
What
@@gggfightklub8449 Read it as if someone was being sarcastic
Last part needs deep EFAP lore for context
Got angry then started laughing bmy ass of nice one man
I’d like a collab where they both do each other’s scripts. So cinemawins gets a sins script and the sins get the wins script and then they do the video.
I hope I don’t think your assessment is necessarily wrong I feel like taken a purely objective look at sins and wins’ formats is doing it the wrong way. I feel what actually separates them is intent, I remember once in a video Lee said that he started Cinemawins with the mission statement “ every movie is at least one person’s favorite” and he clearly cares about filmmaking as a whole more than Sins does
Oh my, OH MY!
Editing and writing are superb. Sound, with the exception of a couple of minor cutoffs or drownouts (tell southpaw to fix your mic XD) combined with that smooth voice creates great ambience.
Great to see someone aptly articulate so many of the issues and misconceptions with these two channels.
Stay massive and may the Don bless you and this video!
Cinemasins is just an asshole being an asshole to movies, not really any real criticism just "this is bad"
Cinemawins reminds us that movies can still be fun, even if they have issues, even if they have a "low win count" the movies can just be fun still, even bad movies can be fun
It all comes down to the idea behind the channels, Sins goes in to find things to complain about, Wins goes in to find things to praise, one of those will lead to enjoying movies much more
This is good, thanks for sharing it with me. I enjoy how you wrap up CW's issues, I've never really paid attention before. I like movies for movies sake, as well--I'm not likely to be the one MST3K'ing in the front row about plot contrivances, but you're absolutely right that this doesn't excuse those mistakes.
CinemaWins says every Movie falls apart when analyzing it thoroughly. He clearly didn't watch In Bruges then.
Can you remind me in what videos did he say it again? I've been looking for the video to know the context as to why he said it
@@4everhls Oh damn, that's 7 months ago o.O It has to be one of those EFAP covered at that time or earlier, because I did not watch anything on his channel.
In case you don't know EFAP: EFAP is a Podcast hosted by MauLer and Rags, they watch video essays and respond to them live. (Oh and if you heard negative things about them, give it a shot anyways, usually someone who engages honestly with their content know that the people are lying about them)
If the podcasts would be too long for you that is totally fine of course.
Ok it might be the followings:
1. The Rise of Skywalker
2. Joker
3. TLJ
My bet is on the Rise of Skywalker one, but I am not entirely sure.
Tell me if you found it there, if not I'll look out more.
@@Soapy-chan_old It was in the Joker one. I was watching that the other day. Blur the blood, not the wound
@@bipstymcbipste5641 Ah right, yes, thanks for informing me.
I mean to be fair, I don't think that we should expect Cinemawins to be as technical as a professional movie critic. He's just there for the laughs. Same reason as to why there are no conclusion at the end of his vids. I really hate how he makes movies seem worsr than they are though. His content should be harmless and light imo since that is where he fits in.
I’ve been excited for this for a while
*I've been looking forward to this*
Evan, this video solidified why you are my favorite content creator on RUclips: you make accurate assessments based on the information present, you create entertaining criticism through great editing and scripting techniques, and you reach conclusions that are fair and understandable. Plus, you are fair to both sides and recognize that they both CAN offer valuable insight, but that they just seemingly choose not to most of the time. Keep up the fantastic work with your videos dude!
I had just a minor confusion over the title. I was almost worried you'd argue that nobody *on RUclips* does it better than Wins and Sins.
Turns out, it's fine 😂
“Why doesn’t the family from a Quiet Place just move to the waterfall?”
...because then it would be a less interesting movie
@Sean Macguire my point is that if they lived safely and comfortably at the waterfall, you wouldn’t love the movie because there would be no conflict in the story. It would just be a movie about living in a house by a waterfall. There would be no movie.
@@maximillion322 But the plot of the movie hinges on a set of circumstances that does not involve an element like the waterfall. So why the hell is the waterfall in the movie in the first place?
An analogy: Our protagonists need to get from one story to the upper one of a building they are inside, but the staircase has collapsed. They build a ladder to climb up there, at some great cost to themselves. During this time, a fully functional elevator lift, that goes from their floor to the one they want to get to, is shown and the protagonists know of it and they can use it at a minor cost to themselves. They still construct the ladder.
Does it not seem ridiculous for the protagonists to continue using the ladder? If it does, then there is a plot-hole because they could just have used the elevator. If it does not, then why is the elevator in the story in the first place?
@@TheJarlOfJyttland good point. Why are the Great Eagles in LOTR if not to just fly the Fellowship to Mt. Doom in an afternoon and be done with it before Saruman can rase an army?
@@maximillion322 Simple answer: Nazguls. But you bringing it up in response to the waterfall in A Quiet Place reveals to me that you acknowledge that it is a plot-hole for that movie. And if that is true, then why are you giving that movie's script the defense of stupidity?
@@TheJarlOfJyttland it is a plothole. The optimal solution would be to cut that scene entirely. But as long as it exists, my point is that it’s better to have an otherwise great movie with a slight plot hole than no movie at all.
Sorry it’s not even comparable. CinemaWins is just a channel that actually has a fun time and you don’t feel like killing yourself by the end of it. God forbid people like things anymore.
Good video, my man. I think the biggest problem with each channel is, that the purpose of their videos seems to shift based on whatever they want at any given time, while keeping the same well-worn format. This is why each of their fanbases are really defensive in saying "It's X but you're treating it as Y", or "it's Y but you're treating it as X" simultaneously.
I think at the final point where you summed yourself up, you could have used a side-by-side visual comparison of the flaws of each channel.
CinemaWins is one of my favorite channels honestly. Not just the positivity but the fact that he will remove wins for certain issues if they are genuine issues. That balance is much more enjoyable to watch than consistent negativity with zero constructive criticism.
You are complaining about cinemawins and sins and how nit-picky they are while nit-picking at certain videos...
1. Its not complaining. Hes not saying "thats wrong wtf is wrong with you guys" he clearly says "this is not the best way to show movies doing stuff good/bad"
2. Its called examples, not nitpicks
I don’t see the problem with their channels. At first I was one of those guys who hated cinemasins for the annoying and stupid criticisms, but then I realized that was the point. Cinemasins is just an overly negative satire of film criticism. Cinemawins is an overly positive praise of films. Both of these channels are designed to promote two sides, I think your video has a point but it’s a point that ultimately is deep for no reason. These channels are not really film essays; they’re fun ways to appreciate film and make fun of it. I think both of their channels do what they’re were meant to do.
I want to make a counter point to you saying Cain had no indication that he should get away from the egg. Firstly, droplets of moister seemingly defying the laws of gravity, plus the weird movement in the egg is enough to know this isn’t safe. Then once it opens, instead of trying to get away he sticks his face in it to get a closer look. Now I love Alien but the point is people are dumb and curiosity can get you killed in these situations, especially if your in a space on your own here. And to act like the scientists in Prometheus should know better is fair but also misses the point. Plenty of experts do stupid things that get them killed. Look at the demon core. Even after the same mistakes had happened repeatedly, scientists still kept doing them and its why people died as a result of thoes failures. Moral of the story, Smart people will and can do stupid things.
I simply disagree because I don't see Cinemas Sins as a movie review type thing. I watch it because sometimes it makes me chuckle. It's a shlop, a channel through and through
I prefer cinema wins, mainly because the narrator in cinema sins sounds like he has phlegm in his throat and I can’t listen to that
I love both channels, and I think cinema sins takes on movies are taken too seriously. I watch their channel for laughs at bad movies, and I don't care whether the sins are for actual complaints, as if that was all cinema sins did I think their videos might fall a bit flat. Cinema wins is just a good channel too imo
However from bobvids' video we can see that people actually take his criticism seriously and don't watch the movies, thats the problem
@@akhil6826 Thats their problem, not cinemasins
@@akhil6826 most people don't care and just want to enjoy the movie
The reason I find wins more entertaining and enriching is that they are uplifting the art of movies, but sins is just shitting on them
Shoutout to using Cowboy Bebop ost!
Now *_this_* is epic.
*Celestial* finding yer comment 'round here, for nough reason... Arrrg'ably.
Okay but why does all film discussion need to be high-brow analysis?
I really don't think there's ANY issue with their "content". Both channels have funny enjoyable content to watch. It's not like they are deciding your opinion on the movie for you.
i just listen to cinemasins for the voice of jeremy
and....
for the warm and fuzzy feeling i get when they remove sins...it makes me feel like....when something is so good, so perfect....you cannot criticize or poke at it even though thats the only thing you live for
Yeah, I think it makes it more meaningful when a channel dedicated to comedic criticism points out good qualities. Like if you want to watch a channel break down why good films are good, there are plenty of commentary channels that do that. If you want to break down superhero or other action films, there are channels that do that. CinemaSins is meant to emulate watching a movie with friends over beers where you poke fun at it. It's not meant to be serious film criticism, so I'm not sure why some people get so offended when he makes jabs at movies.
dude, I just want to watch people talk about movies and have a positive attitude, chill...
Nothing that is said in this video prevents you from doing that. With that being said, why should he chill?
Dude, he just wants to criticise people talking about movies and have a constructive attitude, chill...
Now I’m going to watch the efap on cinema wins joker just so I can watch the very justified fury at his asinine lord of the rings take
It's 10 months later. Has that EFAP video ended yet?
@Reno Thomas that isnt what he was saying tho
@@zekromx101 Even then, that's a pretty fat statement that Lee made considering the status of lord of the rings as one of the best trilogies ever made. To bluntly throw out a statement like that without anything to back it up, it makes him look like he's really desperate to defend his schtick. The implication that there's a thin line between a great movie and a terrible movie is seriously dumb
The return of the king. I was convinced you had been absorbed by cinema roberto or something. Very happy to see this in my sub box.
I don't take CinemaSins seriously but, he has a few good videos like his video on DBE, Transformers 4, & Batman and Robin. His videos on The Room and Troll 2 are hilarious.
Glad this comparison exists, really. For how popular both of these channels are, its kinda weird how little they're mentioned in the same sentence. I think this essay kinda missed the point though. The reason these channels are both so great is because of their personality and sense of humor. People don't come to cinemasins to know everything wrong about movies they like, they want entertainment surrounding their favorite entertainment. Shouldn't be taken so seriously, just my take.
You'll be giant one day. Really appreciate that you keep a fine distinction between a subjective opinion of yours and an objective criticism of whatever you are analyzing, unlike so many other review channels.
Well he was inspired by Mauler who has started to popularize the renormalization of concept of objective criticism.
I think most people take CinemaSins far too seriously. Even he has said that the sin counter has no real meaning and most of the sins mean nothing.
Didn't CinemaSins make a video called *Everything Wrong With CinemaSins* where one of the sins was that they were not movie reviewers
Oh yeah that extremely dumb deflection.
Yet they include actual criticism of movies in their videos
18:25...Fun fact: in episode 6 when Force ghost Obi-Wan approaches Luke Skywalker in dagobah he actually did interact with The Vines...
I am not proud of retaining this useless knowledge
"if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all."
Underrated comment. This is a godly quote
Ah! A fellow Witcher fan.
It looks like Jay was right after all, but then we all knew that anyways...
Jeremy invents problems, tells a "Joke", then dings the ding. There are running gags that aren't really problems but are treated as such. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the slew of Logos at the beginning of films either but they aren't that bad. Bills still need to be paid and credit still needs to be given. Also, bold of Jeremy to criticise "Pointless crap" at the beginning of media, then have a minute of that same "pointless crap" at the beginning of his videos. Films having similar concepts to other films isn't a Sin. There is a reason that those tropes exist, it works. His oldest stuff, where his videos were less than 10 minutes, was arguably his best content. As Th3Birdman puts it "You padding the Sin Count?" And yet I still find myself watching films in a cinema and thinking "Narration" or "That's Racist" during it or by extension, thinking about how will Th3Birdman counter the inevitable Sins video.
Lee invents Wins too, to be fair. He isn't above making the odd running joke too, but, for whatever reason, it doesn't feel as forced (I, too, appreciate a beautiful beard). Maybe I prefer more positivity in my life. Also, as far as I am aware, Lee has never requested a lapdance during his videos. As for Padding the Win Count, his most egregious video has to be the Endgame one. Yes, it was exclusively to get that number up to 3000 for the joke, but it doesn't feel as bad as when Sins does it.
I watch both still (Wins way more than Sins admittedly), but I'm not about to base my probability of consuming media off of either of their "reviews". Of the two, I definitely prefer Wins.
I found myself watching this video in frustration as I kept trying to undermine your critiques of Cinema Wins as obviously I knew "which was the better channel". Ultimately, I realized through the course of the video that I was simply conflating "which channel is a better channel" with "which channel is a better film critique channel". While I still have my strong opinions about the former question, I appreciate you levelly presenting the latter question in such a way that I can now take a better developed stance!
A Mauler video yesterday and a Monroe video today, is this when the year 2020 starts to improve?
Ha no it got worse
Reminder that Jeremy is a grown ass man who tackles his mid-life crisis by being the embodiment of that one person who never shuts up while watching a movie and actively chooses to ask questions instead of staying quiet and letting the movie answer their questions.
Cinema Sins is obviously a joke. In every video they pick fun at themselves with some of the points you made in this video. Their goal is not to properly critique a film, it is to entertain the viewer! You take clips of their videos that are clearly for laughs and use it to show evidence on why they are bad/misleading. They say over and over again that they are not being serious and it is all just a joke. The sin counter at the end is not really supposed to show the film's credibility but to add another layer of parody.
The idea of Cinema Sins is to give the viewers something to watch and make them laugh. Most of Cinema Sins viewers don't really care about the movie just about the narrator's commentary. They never set out to objectify the film they are trying to make people laugh.
*And most of it is parody (also why did I write this?)
I think you are taking these light hearted channels a bit too seriously... But then again so am I because I spent ten minutes writing a rebottle that no one will see...
But there are people who will make a counter-claim to this, saying something along the lines of, “But there are plenty of instances where he says things that are blatantly false or misleading, and then tries to cover it up as joke, even though you could tell by the tone in the video that it was meant to be a ‘serious criticism’. They are just using it as an excuse to hide the fact that they suck and have bad writing.”
One guy also said something along the lines of, “He has tried to pass himself off before as an actual critic, which would imply that he makes serious criticisms at least some of the time, yet a lot of the time these serious criticisms are simply false.”
Please watch the video 'Cinemasins videos are not satire: they're just poorly written.' To understand the flaws in this idea
Wow do people really fall for this shit?
@@totallyrealcia From their patreon: "We at CinemaSins are fortunate to be able to make silly sins videos for you every week".
"Gordon Ramsay critiques a store bought can of spaghettios" (Alternate title for this video)
The last day of 7th grade, one boy in my class thought it'd be funny to say something to insult another boy's mom, the insulted boy punched through the glass of our classroom door. Both were suspended.
The idea that anyone would build a whole channel around either heaping criticism on every movie equally and arbitrarily, or heaping praise on every movie equally and arbitrarily is baffling to me. Can you even consider yourself a movie critic if you don't discriminate between good and bad films?
Also, good video. I'm gonna go rewatch Fincher's The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo because it's brilliant, and then proceed to cry because the trilogy will never be completed.
Uh, I'm out of the loop then. I 100% believed that they were run by the same people
There's a Film Theory that presents up with an interesting explanation as to how Force Ghosts work and why they don't help more: ruclips.net/video/lqMYMtZ8qSk/видео.html
1:12 there is also a channel that makes “zombie sins” for zombie movies
You deserve millions of subs
I mean don't get me wrong, this is an amazing video but I have always gotten the feeling that Lee created his channel to spread positivity and to criticise him so harsh seems really unfair to me, mainly because I feel like CW doesn't take itself that serious... its there to be positive and to provide a mirror to CS, in my opinion it doesn't NEED to be accurate or 100% objective, the "jup", or Brutal" - wins criticised in this video are there to lighten up the mood and show what Lee likes about the movie. Not to be seen as a serious base of argumentation for the movie, but more of a "hey that was cool! and that too, this movie is fun!"I can't say much about the critique on CinemaSins because I don't really watch his videos.
This being said I think that this video did an amazing job at criticising both channels, and had not only a beautiful structure and writing style but also an amazing sound and editing quality. Truly great work. I don't know if anyone is doing to be reading this considering I'm quite late to the party and this comment might get buried anyway, but in CinemaWins' spirit I hope whoever reads this has a lovely day/night that's filled with positivity.
I actually used to think they were the same person/people, is that weird?
Nope, not weird at all...
Cuz you're not the only one
I mean, They look so identical,
So it's no shame to be fooled
Cinema-sins and Cinema-wins: Doppio and Diavolo.
Seemingly different personalities inhabiting the same being. One seemingly less awful than the other at first, but upon closer inspection, neither of them are what you would call good.
And of course, Patrick Willems is Risotto Nero, for anyone who’s a fan of this analogy.
So MauLer or Monroe is Giorno?
Who is that I would say sentry and void
Diego Brando
Mauler of course!
@@Party_Almsivi fuck mauler
Having a stand with the power of requiem would be so cool he could really get points down and finish a lot in such a small spand i wonder what the abilty would be though irl instead of reversing time like GER
So what you are saying rather than everyone’s opinion they are just sinning and winning with their own opinions
Even if Cinemawins commits many of the same mistakes as cinemasins, i think people just like him more because unlike Jeremy, Lee isn't an arrogant pretentious asshole.
The main problem with the sins/wins format is they are extremes. Sins looks for stuff to call out so hard that he’s blinded and often makes mistakes. Wins is only ever looking to praise movies even if he knows they’re not good.
@AlezanderO2 Cinemawins really likes TLJ though, he explained his views for 20 minutes after the main rundown.
Cinema sins is just a satire channel though, nitpicking is their thing
@@neroidius6915 the satire excuse has been debunked by tons of people
@@1917girl I mean if they themselves say its satire then i don't understand what has to be debunked
@@1917girl That's the thing about satire. Surely it can't exactly be “debunked”. It doesn't quite work like that, I don't think.
even if cinemasins and cinemawins are doing the exact same things, cinemasins is worse because they're actively encouraging people to not watch movies. cinemawins is encouraging people to watch movies.
i think cinema wins is worse , may be a personal opinion but i find forced positivism annoying
"Pretend it's what you want."
Cinemawins
*Enough said!*
Edit: Changed my old favorited quote to match the guy's newest tism...
2:22 or as Spider-Man would say, '"You remember that old movie with the clone dinosaurs that could open doors, and there was that Indiana Jones guy who was like 'clever girl!' just before he got mauled? Well what if WE were the dinosaurs? I mean not like the whole eating people thing because that would just be weird, but..." 😂
I think people are taking Cinema Sins too seriously.
i cant believe it was until today I realised they were not connected by a single person