Engine failure during climb at Vx in a Howard DGA-15P
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- **NOTE: See article, "Nix on Vx" about this subject here: www.aopa.org/n...
"The Proficient Pilot," in the March edition of "AOPA Pilot" for insightful comments and instruction about this accident
In this video, a Howard DGA-15P experiences a loss of engine power shortly after takeoff while climbing at best-angle-of-climb (Vx) speed. The engine failure was caused by the failure of the engine-driven fuel pump.
You can hear the engine fail at 09 seconds into the video.
As an aside - the pilot in this accident survived, but the aircraft was engulfed and destroyed by fire after shortly after the pilot escaped the airplane.
At least the pilot escaped.
what's Vx? and why don't you glide? is it not a regular V1 rotate takeoff
@@jamescollier3 Vx is the airspeed which gives you the best angle of climb. Used to clear obstacles on departure. He needed to push the column forward and get light in the seat as soon as that engine quit. He may have done that. A Vx climb puts you very close to the stalling speed. Credit to the pilot that he got the nose down enough to hit wings level.
@@RusskiCommieBot ah. thx
That's too bad the way the gear snapped off I thought for sure it was gonna be okay. I can't decide whether a little more altitude would have been better. I can see the push over, but not enough altitude to get it glide airspeed.
That's a pretty aggressive climb to try with the fuel selector off.... glad he survived!
Show off hanging on the prop. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Did you notice the elevator full back on impact. Jeez!
In@@SpectrumRob
I don’t know much about flying but this takeoff looked way too aggressive
@michaelboothe7661 the takeoff? I'm more concerned about the landing...
Speculation.
When I went to A&P school in 1991 they said fuel mismanagement was the leading cause of accidents in general aviation, it has not changed much😮.
No pilots are figuring out many many more ways to crash, besides fuel mismanagement. It's on the list of causes number one is LOC loss of control. Flying into IMC, fuel is up there still and pilots stalling or not being aware of their energy state.
That's good info. A reminder to be diligent.
Yes, but WHY? You KNOW these heavy shortwinged monsters need some power, or they come down faster than you like. So, you take care to select the good tank. I really don't get it. You must pay close attention or you die. Why do people STILL select the wrong tank?
@@voornaam3191 To you point it has a 22 lbs/sqft wing loading. C152: 10.5 lbs/sqft, C172: 14.7 lbs/sqf for reference. Any airplane where you are LOW and SLOW is a critical phase of flight, i.e., TO and Ldg. What was the density altitude? TO weight? It lost thrust at a bad time (there is no good time) and came down hard. The landing gear did the job of breaking off and absorbing some energy. A Cessna would be very bent ,
Controlled flight into terrain is number one cause of crashes
I recently pulled the power on a Cessna 150 about 20 feet in the air after rotation. We still had a a prop rotating at idle power unlike him. I was shocked at how the airplane just stopped flying. We came down instantly. I now get extra speed in ground effect before climbing out.I appreciate you uploading this footage. Great teaching aid for other pilots.
It's common sense before stupidity
Why the hell did you kill your power 20 feet up after take off?
If you do that you only have a split second to get the nose down and start gliding.
A C-150? Ugh. Wait until you fly a 172, much nicer and not too much more costly to fly per hour. The 182 is even better and the 206 is like driving a truck, a real workhorse though. My love of flying started 53 years ago, starting at age 5, in our 1949 C-170A that we flew from our home. My dad and I went flying every weekend it seems. We'd go have lunch at an airport and walk around and look at aircraft
.. boring... or go up and look for coyotes to buzz or drop a roll of toilet paper out the window and see how many times we could slice it using our wing.
By the time I got my license at 17, we had already done loops and barrel rolls in it. My dad flew to Central America in it twice to photograph Mayan pyramids. I didn't get to go. He was fascinated with that culture and even contacted National Geographic hoping for sponsorship to explore them. I ended up inheriting the plane when my dad passed away. I flew it a couple times but without anybody with me, it was kinda boring. I really didn't have the time to stay proficient so I sold it to someone who did. I recently saw a photo of it painted back in factory colors while it was at Oshkosh. The only reason I recognized it was I saw the tail number! My dad had called it a "lead sled" at one time and I actually got offended. That was a member of our family! Well, he rented a Citabria from a sailplane towing service... for the unheard of price of $40/hr... and showed me that yup, our 170 was indeed a lead sled! That plane was FUN! I could get into trouble with that plane! I got to take a ride in a C-185. Wow, what an aircraft and the pilot was no slouch himself. Our runway was 10' wide x 1300' long, the last 600' was downhill, dirt, with high voltage wires just 250' from the beginning of the runway and a ravine at the end. My dad had a STOL kit installed when he purchased it in '71. He paid... are you sitting down? He paid $4,250 for it! The plane, not and STOL kit! I still have the receipt. We'd drag our 170 over the wires with the stall buzzer blaring every time and only use a little more than half the runway to stop. The pilot of the 185 flew that plane into the runway from a high angle and touched down at 65mph. He also used only half the runway, but his brakes took a helluva beating.
Some great memories came flooding back. I'd love to live my childhood all over again when the word "responsible" wasn't in my vocabulary. These days there's so much to think about and plan for, it takes some of the fun out of life.
Enjoy the time while you're flying. There's no better way to leave all the problems behind and in a way, escape reality, even if it is only temporary! Have fun, be safe, and Happy Flying!
The plane didn't stop flying, it's that you stopped flying the plane... of course it feels like it "stopped flying" when thrust is suddenly removed and there is no lift, but the wing will still fly if adjusted to meet the condition.
So sad to see a beautiful machine destroyed
Auf Deutsch rief der Pilot nur laut: "Ach Du Scheisse! "
Sucata
Yes very sad to see this plane fly for the last time.At least the pilot survived.
Ive been a pilot since 1991. Slow down, use your checklist EVERY TIME, ALL THE TIME. Your life and the lives of others depend on it.
And a Beautiful pilot you are!!!❤
🎯👍
are you judging without knowledge...
Very well said my friend and remember “There are old pilots and there’s bold pilots, but there is no old bold pilots “ lol 😂
THAT LOOKS LIKE A FAMILIAR AIRPLANE. ISN'T THAT OWNED BY HARRISON FORD?
This was probably the best of two possible outcomes. The other one being a stall with the left wing dropping and the nose section impacting the ground vertically.
I agree with you.
@@TheProficientPilot He could have pushed the nose over a lot harder than that I think; he did well to walk away but I don't see this pilot converting any altitude to speed here.
@@kwittnebel My opinion is that had the pilot done so, he would have perished due to blunt force trauma as the airline crashed nose first. At altitude, try to climb at Vx through a safe altitude and pull your engine at 50-100 feet above that altitude. See if there is any way you can descend through that altitude without being nose-down at less than 500 fpm.
@@TheProficientPilot i think it is possible but will have to try it. I think a second or two of startle time makes it borderline impossible; you would have to pitch down almost simultaneously with the power cut. Plus this thing seems to glide like a brick. But really what you are saying is that he was showing off and climbing at a rate that left him few options. In a landing if you get slow at say 30 feet it is possible to go nose down and then flare again immediately taking advantage of ground effect. I dont think he used his height to increase the airspeed at all here; even a modest increase in airspeed increases lift substantially as the square of the airspeed. That is the point I was trying to make.
@@kwittnebel Unless you were expecting it - you wouldn't pitch down immediately. Even if you did - I don't think there is enough energy there.
NTSB report says he had the fuel selector in the wrong position. Making the probable cause fuel starvation.
Checklist, Checklist, Checklist!
It had plenty of gas. It burned up!
@@jakesairrepair doesn't mean it was getting to the engine
Ouch
Of course
Regardless of all the advice everyone is giving after the crash. I just want to say. I'm glad everyone is okay. Thank you for posting this. Eugene in Ireland 🇮🇪 👍
So sad, what a beautiful old plane. Glad to hear the pilot survived.
My spine felt that, hope everyone's OK
Lesson learned: don’t try to stay up. The pilot survived but not thanks to his emergency skills. Speed is your friend after an engine failure. Not an extreme angle of attack. He stalled the plane completely. Push your nose forward. You have a glider, fly it as such. It’s not rocket science but a different mindset.
Yeah He totally stalled it . If it happens 50 feet higher they would’ve all been dead. Pilots don’t practice basic flight maneuvers and they don’t plan for takeoff failure. For God’s sake!
@@user-3tf67bk46u: I don’t think so. He stalled it plain and simple. It was bad flying. It’s indisputable.
How can he recover from a stall and no power from 40 feet above the ground? It had not built up enough air speed to glide with no power. How can you pull up with no power and really low air speed? I'd like to see the keyboard pilots land safely (no damage) in the exact same situation.
@@mrobviuos74 Put the nose down and gain as much speed as possible before pulling up at the last possible moment.
Convert as much gravitational potential energy as possible into horizontal speed, then let the wheels touch the ground.
There was 3.9 seconds from the time he lost power to impact. That's about enough time to realize what happened and thats it. Im surprised you didnt give him crap for not going through the full emergency checklist. RUclips pilots are the worst 🤦♂️
Really pleased, the crew got out.
Hey Bud ... Great to see your name pop up! Yeah - he survived, but the airplane was destroyed in post-crash fire.
That plane wasn't gonna be repairable anyways.
Good that the pilot was ok.
I know someone who died in this very scenario. He and his girlfriend were taking off. Engine failure. Nose straight into the ground. Rest in Peace, Brian.
I'm sorry.
This wasn’t engine failure, it was pilot error.
@@TheValleyFlyersRC Did the engine fail? Yup. Failed to keep running due to fuel exhaustion.. So, engine failure...via pilot error...word parser.
@@A1Aviator Incompetent pilots. Should be in politics! Lol
The pilot was not trained to "get light in your seat" (Dan Gryder) by instantly pushing hard, nose negative down, to prevent the stall. "Fly it to the accident."
The engine failed, not stalled.
@@damianpogu7272 The engine failure caused the pilot to fail to prevent the aerodynamic stall because he wasn't trained for that.
@@damianpogu7272 watch the clip again champ
There was no time or distance to pick up airspeed to prevent a stall. If you have ever flown you would know this.
@@oby-1607 I have lots of experience since I started flying in 1962 (private, single-engine land, single-engine sea, multi-engine land, commercial, and instrument).
When I was training, DMMS was not in the general aviation curriculum (Designed Minimum Maneuvering Speed) that you never go below that speed marked on the indicator.
My best friend, a commercial charter pilot, killed everybody on board a King Air, including the possible US president contender Senator Paul Wellstone, when they were maneuvering in IMC and he and the copilot did not pay attention to DMMS. It was a stall at low altitude while maneuvering to land and everybody was alive after the impact but they died in the fire.
After rotating and starting to climb you should not be below the DMMS so you won't ever need to recover from a stall.
He held back on the elevator. If he had pointed down instead of pulling back, he may have landed fine.
Maybe the runway wasn´t long enough for that.
Precisely. My departure brief includes procedures for engine out during ground roll, engine out before reaching pattern altitude, and engine out at pattern altitude
@@LEONCJ 🎯
Yes, hard forward and he could have had enough airspeed to put it down a lot softer. But very easy to talk from a state of undistracted calm...
@@johnbgibbsIndeed. Diving at the ground at low altitude immediately upon the engine going out has to be a programmed a reaction. Few people are going to just t remember it from flight training and do it. I’m pretty sure I went at least four years without practicing that scenario.
Props to the cameraman who knew instantly to point the camera at the ground at impact.
No one owes you anything .
Props?? 😅😅😅
😂😂😂
@@WeAreAllGonersYeah. Props. Pardon the pun.
It was clearly AFTER impact. Get your eyes and ears checked.
Watching this again, I guess I don't understand why people fly off the ground in 3 point. That AOA is so high that motor failure means immediate stall.
Lifting of in a 3-point attitude isn't the problem - climbing at Vx is the problem. LIftoff - level off!
If accelerating to beyond Vx in the air is the right thing to do, then lifting your tail up before lift off is also the right thing to do, because there is less wing drag while trying to accelerate, so you accelerate more quickly toward Vy, which is the whole point: get to vy, then climb. Not: climb for two seconds near the stall, then put the nose down and accelerate. There is no need to get into the air at some ridiculous 3point attitude and then level off. Just level your attitude on the ground and accelerate quickly to a higher speed before liftoff, then climb at vy or whatever. If you arent going fast enough to climb, why leave the ground?@@TheProficientPilot
Depends on the plane, some I like to 3 point, some I get the rear off, smaller planes and the citabria I tend to take off in the 3 point as welll as land
Citabrias, other than GCBC (longer gear) sit at a shallow deck-angle. The wing is well below stall in 3-point attitude. This can be confirmed by their tendency to land tailwheel first. And ability to land tailwheel first be nearly a foot, when purposely flown to the STOL limit.
This video, the pilot has a substantial amount of back-stick (wheel) and doubles down on this error when the engine stops. Hauling the airplane into a stall and keeping it there at 100ft agl is not conductive to a healthy spine.
I also made the argument above that he should have pointed the nose at the ground immediately when this thing died. But others said he would not have been able to level out again. I don't know about that; 9.8m/s/s is a lot of acceleration and the lift increases with square of velocity.
He panicked, kept the stick back, plain and simple. Pushing forward would have saved the day. Quelle domnage.
That was my 1st thought, nose down here to keep speed.
Pilot’s decision for such a steep angle of climb, airspeed was almost at stall. Engine failure meant nearly instant stall without time to recover. There are bold pilots and old pilots….
idk if you noticed but he had no altitude to work with, and given his climb rate, didn't have much airspeed to work with. He did push the nose down and then tried to round out for landing, but he didn't have any airspeed and bled off the rest of what he had on round out, so it was a *ahem* hard landing.
He did about the best he could, kept wings level and nose up on touchdown. From what others said, his biggest mistake was a careless preflight resulting in an improper fuel selector setting, leading to the accident.
J'agree tout a fait😅
I suspect quite a lot of accidents happen when pilot freezes on the controls. You need about 5 seconds for your brain to get out of "deer in head lights" mode but you only have 2 seconds to do anything about your situation.
Jam it forward. He kept it back the whole time. Thank you.
Stick forward to maintain airspeed, then just come down and flare for a normal landing. Think he went into a panic and froze up!
Looks more like a pilot failure than an engine failure
How's that ?
@@Dezzy-e8bsounds like the engine starved for fuel... Meaning that the fuel wasn't "on" .... pretty frightening!
Strangely enough, if there for some reason was enough fuel in the carbs to get the plane to any kind of altitude and THEN it starved out, the pilot could have potentially cut the fuel back on and continued the flight... There'd have been plenty of hang time to restart in.
Agreed. I think he could've saved the landing.
You trade your altitude for airspeed. Counterintuitive. Push down instead of pull back pretty simple really
But real easy to say until it happens to you 👌🎯
That's when training through route kicks in
@@In_Need_of_a_SaviorI'm thinking that field elevation and temperature resulted in less dense air and made this more difficult than it appears. Factor in 1 or 2 seconds for the pilot to react and he's almost entirely out of time.
One thing l have noticed about a lot of these accidents is how slow the "nose down" is, plus how shallow they are. Nose down hard and fast, get speed back, or you are just a passenger on the way to the scene of the crash
Exactly, you gotta SHOVE those controls.
Agreed
If you’re not light in the seat, it’s not fast enough.
ONNA MOTOCYCLE YA WANNA BE HEAVEY INNEN DOK SCHKADDLE¡!
Yes indeed……….nose down instantly to maintain flying speed.
I’m glad the pilot was okay.
He shouldn't ever be allowed to fly again
@@AckzaTV nice try
@@AckzaTVWhy?
Okay? After an engine failure, you can also do a landing. This pilot is NOT okay. Looks like he pushed the flaps UP instead of lowering them. Hell of a stall.
@@godzilla928 ??? He did everything wrong. He just keept pulling up -.-
Oh damn! How do I give that a thumbs up? Hopefully no one had spinal injuries!! Compression of the spine!! Thumbs up to God, bless and help them be safe and not injured!!
Carl says: “It ain’t got no gas in it”. Glad to hear the pilot survived.
Like my CFI says, "Sure, you CAN take off like that..." Meaning, get the tail up and accelerate to a reasonable speed before you leave the ground.
That's true. If you need Vx then you've made a bad decision.
@@TheProficientPilotnot really. It’s not ideal, but a manufacture wouldn’t dream of publishing VX if it was a bad idea.
@@harveymanfrantinsingin7373 manufactures have been known to get it wrong, I would not take there word for that one .
@@Dezzy-e8b lolol… you’re not even close. Any aircraft manufacturer that has been in business for longer than five minutes is still in business because they protect themselves by the data they publish. VX, VY and so on are derived from numerous tests performed by test pilots. This is kind of one of those subjects where, if you don’t know what you’re talking about, you probably shouldn’t speak up.
@@harveymanfrantinsingin7373exactly its stated that this happened because the pilot had fuel selector set wrong.... also look at video lots of steep mountains .... can't see for sure but vx is possibly required to clear obstacles.... also altitude is your friend so get as much as possible as fast as possible....altitude buys time to work a problem or to bail out if you have a chute or ballistic recovery system.... best advice ever is don't fuck up check everything twice ..... checklist and use it always
This was a beautiful rare vintage aircraft and it's a damn shame. That gear snapped like dry twigs.
@@jstar1000 What the F are you talking about. This is a HOWARD not De Havilland. I flew in Northwest and Alaska, 39 yrs as pilot and still counting ATP, CFI-II-ME. Very familiar with DHC-2, DHC-3 and DHC-6 often on floats. What does that have to do with a Howard DGA-15A? DHC-2 Beaver is a totally different plane. De Havilland now only produces the Twin Otter utility, Dash 8 regional airliner, and DHC-515 firefighting aircraft, all turbine powered.
@@gmcjetpilot my bad, miss identification on my part
@@gmcjetpilot settle down Francis......
@@stevenrobinson2381 He's; "I'm a pilot so I have to be a cocky know-it-all"
At least 80 years old and could be 85.
Props to the cameraman for the recovery.
"props" you say?
Yes ,lots
If there's an engine failure you gotta keep that nose down and capture your Best glide speed which you should have marked on your airspeed indicator for just this situation. You HAVE GOT to push forward even when every ounce of your soul is telling you to pull back on the controls you PUSH FORWARD like your life depends on it because it does, you have to overcome that urge you have to block it out. This guy was pulling back all the way to the ground he's lucky and he's alive because he didn't have any altitude if he would have been at a 1000ft and he started pulling back like that with a bum engine he would have gotten into an accelerated stall and fell out of the sky like a brick.
My thoughts exactly. I only have 99 hours on my logbook 😊❤
And for heavens sake, don't try to turn around and come back to land on the runway, not that this guy really had a chance to do it.
I’ve saved my neck pushing the stick all the way after a take off engine miss…. Learned from my instructor but convinced after reading “Stick & rudder” That book is my bible!
@@nonamesplease6288 absolutely never turn back there's a reason they call it the impossible turn!! Scan ahead find a field a road anywhere even if you have to put it in the trees or a body of water, anything is better than getting yourself into an accelerated stall or spin and falling out of the sky like a brick.
@@ral1951 awesome, and glad you are around to share your story, good day and stay safe!
immediate, stick forward, keep flying.
Airspeed, airspeed, airspeed. I don’t know what happened in the cockpit and the fact that the pilot did what he did in the first place is incredible. I hope that if I’m ever faced with this; however, I’ll be fast enough to nose over to zero G and maintain VX enough to flare it out a little more
I’d like to suggest that you attempt this at altitude before you commit to that down low. I’d rather see you commit to never taking off with an initial climb speed of Vx. At altitude, climb at Vx until you reach a cardinal altitude (like 3,000) and make sure that you are at least 2,000’ AGL. When you pass through 3,050 feet, chop the power and maintain Vx - like you said you would do and note your rate of descent at 3,000’. Also notice where your nose is and decide if you would have hit the ground nose first.
You should probably change your handle for RUclips now. Glad your ok
Thank you for stating this basic knowledge of airmanship. I am starting to really feel for the next generation. I have never seen so many incompetent people,Don’t know grammar,arithmetic,spelling or just plain common sense. Insurance will pay. But he is still dangerous .
I learned to fly from an old British Mosquito pilot turned flight instructor. He was an older gentleman at this time. Every was a dead stick landing’ He would look disappointed at you if he saw you reaching for the power,old ball and stick flying. He did things with that old Cessna 150 that defied physics. Miss the old guys they always had great stories. WW2 ,inmates from in concentration camps ,sailors from The Battle of the Atlantic.convoy duty in Murmansk
I watched a p51 take off before an air show at willkes barre. No announcement before he went. Must have been taking a little joy ride. He got about 20 feet off the runway and held it there to the end. Pulled up and to the left. Going like a bat out of hell. Freaking awesome. He came back like a hkaf hour latter.
That’s the only way to depart in a Mustang 😀
Any landing you can walk away from.
Is a good landing.
Stop with this stupidity
That's is a completely illogical statement!.. .
@@bobadingo this nonsense is only uttered by wannabe pilots and failed cargo pilots.😂
Fun fact: every Landing is a controlled Crash
@@wtfsalommy3250 another thing stupid people say
Your confidence is inspiring.
Yikes!!!!! Now, that someone who is having a very bad day, but extremely lucky to be alive!!!!
That was a really sad loss.
Not really
High drag aircraft at high AOA, low airspeed. You can’t get the nose down fast enough, and the change in pitch required is dramatic. It has to be immediate and very aggressive, but even then you might not be able to salvage enough energy to flare and smoothly touch down.
This is the comnent I was looking for. Thank You.
I wouldn't flare, wheel land it.
@@charlesfoster141 Even a wheel landing will require a flare.
@@dustdevilz4771 not much
That could be what actually happened. We can’t see the aircraft and elevator position during and immediately after the engine failure. When it comes back into view we see the up elevator, but that may have been him trying to flare after pushing over, prior to coming back into view.
That's why I never take off with minimum speed. I had a scare before and that was enough.
Why would anyone take of at minimum speed 🥴🚭
@@Dezzy-e8b That all depends, short field takeoff, cross winds but for some it is just a style of flying. They set the trim and once it reaches rotating speed away they go. I personally prefer just a bit faster or at least ride the ground effect for a little while.
Minimum speed is still no less than best glide speed. The key is to push the nose down to maintain best glide speed and keep flying to the flare. Extending flaps can help a lot, but the nose must be lowered to decrease angle of attack.
Forward on the yolk! Not back! You stalled it! Lucky to have survived.
That hurt. Glad the pilot survived.
Fuel turned off?
In fact, it was.
Off or open makes no difference, the fuel in the tanks rupture
@@Dezzy-e8b😅really very possible
Sometimes it's the simplest mistakes that hurt you the worst. Glad the man survived.
@@Dezzy-e8b lol.. made a huge difference in this instance.. kind of need fuel on to run the engine...
Checklist Checklist Checklist.
So you support the use of checklists?
@waldoinaz he didnt have his fuel selector button engaged
I don’t think the checklist itself would’ve saved him it was poor ADM there are so many things wrong with this accident. Even if he read the checklist I truly believe this pilot would eventually end up in an accident.
Ouch! In that terrain, the pilot may have gotten off easy, having the runway still under him. In the other terrain nearby, a later engine failure may have been even more disastrous, if not outright fatal. Painful amount of damage, though, to that precious historic aircraft.
Oh well. It's just stuff
burned up, I read in other comments, after the pilot got out.
Good job by the pilot and the cameraman.
« C/L protects you, protect the C/L », take your time, actively check every item.
Also, so low after take off, the nose must go down immediately if you lose power. The only way to do it fast enough is to be ready for it, as if you wanted it to happen, every time, every take off.
Anyway, this guy did manage to walk away from a tricky spot, which is all that really matters. 👍
Hard to tell because the camera panned away from the plane as it flew overhead, but based on the fact it looks like the elevator was in a significant upward deflection as the plane descended to the ground, I'm inclined to think that the accident could have been avoided by pushing the nose down to keep airspeed up as soon as power was lost. And yeah, keeping the fuel selector on would have been helpful too.
That was a steep climb, Vx as it is known. So, below best glide speed and well below Vy or best rate of climb speed.
Not only would he have to react fast enough and push the over to maintain speed, he would have to trade several hundred feet to gain best glide speed. Feet of altitude he did not have.
Nobody expects an engine failure. It takes 1.5 seconds to recognize an emergency and another 1 second to respond. And the odds the response will be appropriate is nearly zero.
@@TheJustinJ You are right, and he had the elevator full up five seconds after engine cut out. Training needs to change.
Glad hes ok. Hit pretty damn hard
Engine failure at Vx. Look at it this way: It's almost like jumping without a parachute. At least this guy got the nose down which prevented a stall and spin. He did all he could do. Sorry he lost the bird.
I dont think he really pushed that nose down.
The problem is he was holding full up elevator and the only reason he didn't drop a wing is because he was too low.
Pilot very lucky Bird did not stall early.. his belly was stoping the yoke
That thing was hard stalled as soon as the engine quit. Thrust was all that was keeping it above a stall. Elevator was full up, he never put the nose down, and was probably too low for that to have made much difference.
The end of fine, rare, Damn Good Airplane.
@@Metabo1950 When the aircraft comes back into the picture, he’s holding up elevator, but we can’t see what he was doing before that. It could be that he pushed forward, regained what airspeed he could, and then when we see him again, he is trying to flare. If he was doing a max angle takeoff and continued throughout the engine failure to hold full back elevator, I think what we saw at the end would have been different, ie a nose down full stall.
those wheels breaking off, probably saved his spine.
I'm glad to hear that the pilot is ok....
Always brief yourself what if I lost my engine on every takeoff and knowing what to do at the at that point and that’s why it’s so important to knowing your Aircraft in the Bold Face letters and memory of any emergency procedures a if you have a passenger with you to go over the check list together during from Before start and Before takeoff etc.
I agree, Bernard. Excellent advice. In this case, however, climbing out at Vx (like we are taught and tested by the ACS) left the pilot with little to no options when the engine failed at that crucial moment.
I always fly the runway using ground effect after rotation, then 20+ knots or so over rotation I pull up. Not specifically fir engine failure, but to insure + rate of climb and well above stall speed
This is why you only climb at VX or VY if you have to... Speed is life kids
Thanks for your comment! This aircraft was climbing at Vx. It is my contention and my father's, that a Vx climb immediately after takeoff is dangerous. This video was used as an example accompanying this article:
www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2022/march/pilot/proficient-pilot-nix-on-the-vx
@@liamsullivan5783’d argue you are spreading misleading information, because it heavily depends on the aircraft, configuration, weight+distribution, pressure altitude and airfield you are taking off from. I argue that those factors impact climb angle, rotation speed to put the nose forward and time to react. In this video you can perfectly see that more speed on that long runway coming with a later rotation point and less altitude and runway to play with would help the pilot to not crash his aircraft this hard. On a shorter field, it would look completely different, there might have been obstacles. Also, another aircraft like Superdimona TMG would be easier to recover due to their faster nose drop rate and stall behavior.
I try to not comment too often, or get in arguments, but it looks like your generalized comment might lead to you or some reader of your comment to get in danger.
As pilots I argue we should know to consider all factors possible. Vx and Vy don’t consider obstacles directly nor if there is plenty of runway left. Also they not necessarily mean that at those lower speeds it would be easily possible to recover an engine failure, since the climb angle and angle of attack vary at each takeoff due to weight distribution, wind, power setting etc. . Those speeds are just speeds at which your aircraft for a given weight (not distribution) climbs or Takesoff best, with best being defined for a specific purpose (e.g. smallest amount of runway used to climb to 50ft).
That being said, I argue that height is not always better then speed, and speeds needs to be adjusted as early as right after rotation based on a lot of factors, which only in commercial aviation with really long runways and perfectly measured wind can be calculated accurately.
The gold question now is, how do I know the criteria to find the best compromise between height and speed right after rotation and after I calculated my climb speed at preflight. Because that now varies depending on where I rotated and how good (with the wind and pressure altitude and weight) I actually climb in that second, best case before 1/2 runway. And this is god damn hard to answer.
Actually I would argue that initially upon takeoff that altitude is life which means Vx until you reach TPA
How fast do you need to be going bro? Check the POH for your aircraft but Vy should be fast enough to react without leaving valuable altitude on the table.
Also, parasitic drag increases with airspeed further reducing performance.
@thejackbox Speed is a buffer margin. Airplanes fly better with more speed. LOC stall/spin is the number one killer of pilots because of improperly managed air speed. My normal take off procedure in complex GA planes is rotate gear up immediately level off at about 50 feet,gain speed, flaps up,speed up maintaining about 100 feet till the last 1/3 of the runway and climb away at about 140 mph. With that speed, I can pitch up and make the 180°turn back the runway. At VY or VX, I have to drop the nose for speed just to keep flying with loss of power, meaning I can't make a steep bank without going over critical AOA and stalling the plane. Also, my speed gives me more time to react. I'm not immediately dumping the nose just to keep the plane flying.
Absolutely heartbreaking!! I pray they fix her.
I first saw a Cessna 337 in 1975 when I was a boy. It was love at first sight.
I' very watched YT videos about the 337, read articles and books.
I've talked to pilots. " Twins are twice the trouble of a single." " Singles are SO reliable it's not really necessary to have a twin." Very few pilots seem to like twins and especially the 337.
I'm 61 now. I own rental properties in Florida and live in Texas. I need to fly to Florida and home to Texas often . It's an 18 hour drive and it's time to get my pilots license.
I know it would be dangerous to fly across open water , say from Louisiana to Florida, so follow the coast...in a single. A TWIN however, thinks I!
This video just reinforces my gut feeling a 337 would be a safer aircraft for me.
Regardless of why he lost power it appears he wasn't using his flaps. He literally fell out of the sky after the engine failed.
Flaps were down!
I'm no expert, but I think the problem here was the pilot had not achieved adequate airspeed for the wings to generate enough lift for the airplane to fly like an "airplane".
Rather, he was using engine power and the propeller to generate downward trust (steep climb) - more like a helicopter.
When the engine cut out, he didn't have enough airspeed to fly, and airplane engines/props don't "auto-rotate" like a helicopter. Thus he fell out of the sky.
@@GroovesAndLandsThat's a good assessment. We can only speculate but the presence of onlookers and the cameraman likely influenced the pilot to behave irrationally.
Flaps would have made the situation worse.
According to other comments he had taken off with the fuel selector in the wrong position which caused the engine to fail. This alone should never happen, but it does because pilots get lazy with their checklists.
After the engine quit, you can see that the elevator was up indicating that the pilot had the stick pulled all the way back. That was his second mistake. The plane was in a full stall and at that point doomed because there was no way for him to flare.
If he had pitched down aggressively at the first indication of the engine loosing power he might have been able to save it and land. This would have prevented the stall and given him the airspeed to land.
Flaps do two things. They change the effective angle of attack allowing a steeper approach to land and they introduce alot of drag. On a normal powered landing those are good things, but in this case either one or both would have made the situation worse.
I'm glad there were no fatalities but the pilot made two critical mistakes and destroyed a beautiful aircraft as a result.
@@GroovesAndLandsIt is counter intuitive , but on an airplane the elevator controls airspeed and altitude is controlled by excess thrust. He had enough thrust to fly up to the moment the engine quit. At that point he had a high angle of attack and no thrust, and in that situation airspeed drops off very fast See my other comment here for a full analysis.
That really sucks.
Amen
He kept the wings coordinated, rudder straight, fortunately no spin initiated, but this was obviously a power off stall. Had he pushed the nose over right away it could have been quite elegant.
I'm always learning from stuff like this...
When I was in Poland a Cessna crashed in a cemetery, the body count hit 80 and still climbing.
Damn that beautiful plane is gone.Props to the pilot for keeping it level and not nosing it in.
The pilot needed to lower the nose. instead he kept pulling on the yoke and stalled it as a result, hence the indelicate landing.
Good landing, but not great.
Cheers!
What goes up will eventually come down!
Yow. Good discipline though, the tendency too often is to stretch a glide which guarantees an even faster loss of altitude and distance. Schiff in AOPA magazine (3/22 article which referenced this site) suggests not doing Vx takeoffs unless absolutely necessary, but it's easy and pointless to harp on this after the fact. (And perhaps with the mountains they had no choice on such a departure.) They survived and did exactly what was possible in a bad situation, and you can't ask for more than that.
You're saying well-done to this guy? He destroyed his airplane and almost killed himself. He's an idiot. He was stalled. He most likely wasn't even at Vx. He was just hanging it on the prop. There was nothing ahead of him that warranted that zoom climb. He was just trying to show off to his buddies with the camera.
Look at his elevator. It is at full deflection up. He has that yoke reefed all the back into his gut. HE TRIED STRETCHING HIS GLIDE and stalled the A/C into the pavement. It was stalled soon after he lost power. It is a tough call and the gut reaction is to pull back on the yoke and if you do that, you will get the same result. This was your basic power-stall. He was screwed climbing out, hanging on the prop barely above stall speed and losing power with little altitude to recover the A/C.
Now that there makes for a mighty bad day!
I'm glad the pilots OK.
"Make sure you're right, then go ahead." ~~ Davy Crockett
Look at his elevator position! The pilot pulled back on the yoke instead of immediately pushing aggressively forward!!! Poor piloting skills from beginning to end…
Those short wing airplanes have a stalling speed mostly OVER the Vx speed. Avoid Vx take offs unless really needed. Also he didnt push nose down well as needed.
I agree - but I also think it's only "needed for takeoff if you've made a bad decision. Vx should be an emergency high-altitude speed. Like trying to clear terrain or a cloud. I'd like to see it removed from the ACS.
@@TheProficientPilot Turnbacks on mountains passes done wrong and Box Canyions have killed thousands too. They didnt know how to do them. Speed to do, wind direction, bank angle done wrong, etc.
Its a different maneuver that needs practice for those GRM Turnbacks, EFATO Turnbacks or Mountain Turnbacks. 3 places where if you didnt want to practice and do turnbacks wrong, you are done.
Its not only for EFATO like some say.
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 So true.
Can you explain how a stall speed could ever be above Vx? The wing will stall at anything above Cl max, and Vx is never above Cl max, it’s always at max excess thrust, just below L/D max. Unless I’m missing something, its impossible.
I do agree the pilot did not push the nose down well, he had that elevator at the stops the whole time from what I could see..
He had up elevator to slow his decent...He did all he could do... GL!
Yeah - there's nothing more he could have done. If he'd have lowered the nose, he would have collided with the ground nose first. This is why perhaps an initial climb at Vx is not so safe.
@@TheProficientPilot I am not sure I agree with this lift varies with v2 so even if he only gained 5mph in a dive it would make a huge amount of difference in available lift, which could allow him to flare a bit and arrest the descent. Someone above was referencing the trim and they thought maybe he was trimmed too nose up. Not sure how that system works.
I owned the only DGA modified with a 1340 - hauled skydivers. Those 3 fuel tanks in the belly scared the hell out of me carrying 8 jumpers. 30 in forward tank - 80 middle & 30 rear - I'm surprised his didn't blow up! That crash was a back breaker. I only used 30 forward for jumps.
Glad you stayed on target and got the landing
That pilot did everything he could that Howard is like flying a semi trailer with flat tires it's just a huge big fat heavy plane like trying to fly a pig. My best friend has a Howard flies at the Oshkosh every year He's been flying it for 3 years and it's still stresses him out when he flies the damn thing. They weren't really made for the enjoyment of flying Benny Howard made him in Chicago for air racing and in the 30s they won the Bendix and Thompson air race. Virtually the same plane Mr Mulligan is based after
I've never flown one, but I've flown airplanes like that. I prefer a much higher power to weight ratio, but that's just me.
@@TheProficientPilot My buddy also owns a Cessna 195. He says if he's going to show a plane off he's taking the Howard but if he has to fly cross country he definitely takes the 195 a lot easier to fly
Looks like to me you had is yolk pulled all of the way back when the power went out he stalled it he could have nosed over made it and landed it
If he had nosed it over at that point, he likely would have impacted nose first which would have probably had a worse result.
Now that’s how you do it. Hope everyone is ok!
Man......not a lot of Howards around.. i fueled, and helped maintain a Red, 1941 Howard in Ft.Lauderdale back in the 1980's.
It was SOO ROOMY inside .Just a great step back in time to a Luxury Personal Acft.
did not see that coming! I know it was a hard "landing" but I sure didn't expect both landing gear to snap like twigs. Glad the pilot was ok.
Landing gear did a lot of absorbing some of the crash energy
Wow….bless them.hope they are ok
1) Procedure. Use the correct fuel tank so you don’t run out of fuel on takeoff.
2)Briefing. Before takeoff, say what you’re going to do if the engine quits on takeoff so you don’t end up just pulling back and stalling it into the ground.
3) Push forward immediately to keep airspeed enough to fly. Flair before touchdown.
Glad the pilot got out but sad for the loss of that bird. Beautiful machine.
Thats a bloody hard engine failure crash landing . Good thing the chap survive and with back pain coming soon .
Pilot took off Vx when there was plenty of room to take off for Vy. That in itself would’ve given him enough energy to flair properly but as many of you pointed out, he should’ve pushed the nose down. Emergency take off brief to avoid startle response along with lack of calculating take off performance and possibly external pressure to please participants leading to lack of situation awareness is what caused this accident.
I once saw a small airplane suffer engine trouble after taking off from Gillespie Field in San Diego. It turned around on the verge of a stall, at an altitude of about 700 feet and made what sounded and appeared to be a dead stick approach back the way it came. I could not see it land, but no accident was reported.
I have experienced the same thing where i had made the mistake of swapping an empty tank while on the ground, it starved out when i was off the ground but still about half way doen the runway and i was quick enough to swap the fuel back over and keep flying. I also dont climb as soon as i leave the ground like im pretending to be in an Airbus. Fly 6 foot off the deck till you get most of your cruise speed before pulling back
This video provides a great example of why NOT to attempt to climb out at Vx (the best angle of climb airspeed) instead of building up more speed while still in Ground Effect (flying horizontally just above the runway) and then entering a less aggressive climb attitude. Prudent pilots would only climb at Vx if there was an obstacle to clear ahead (and prudent pilots rarely would decide to make such a takeoff with a significant obstacle directly in front of them). There's a very important lesson in this video.
I told you Johnson don’t skip that tuneup last week. It was due for.🎉🎉🎉🎉
I cannot imagine the impact and how people were shaken inside there
I think such saad things reminding us of ALWAYS try to build xxxxxx whatever so it is easy and logic to do right, if not it is too easy to do the wrong moove. Never build in confusing parts. Keep safe. Best whishes from Sweden.
I always tried to teach and demonstrate to my students how aggressive you must nose over/pitch down if the engine fails while climbing at Vx. Until you’ve experienced it it’s hard to grasp.
My father told me that no matter how many times you've flown the aircraft, always refer to the POH no matter how redundant it may be. I have been flying since 1990 without any incident.
Tail-draggers are prone to high angle of attack climbouts especially if they are STOL modified. Glad to hear the pilot is OK.
That’s a real hard landing…. Literally and figuratively…. Wow❤
Did you see at the end he had the elevator all the way up? It was ineffective because he had no airspeed.
I’ve done engine failures right after take off with students. It’s seriously challenging. You have to react super quick and aggressively.
Thank goodness he didn't try the impossible turn
Wow…so lucky it happened before he was much higher up. Glad he is ok.
Bummer, looked like a nice plane, hope the pilot was okay..
Hopefully everyone survived. Thankfully he didn’t try to climb and turn.
Had to read the comments to understand what happened!
The engine was running just fine. So, why the sudden failure?
FUEL ⛽️
GOSH ! I was learning way back in the late 60's. And THAT was one issue that was drummed into our heads: FUEL SYSTEM/FLOW management!
So glad the crew was okay. Sorry they had to learn such a lesson the hard way. But, experience is the best Teacher 👌
That landing was spine shattering.
I have a theory that in cases like this, some of the lift comes from the prop pushing air over the wings. Since the air is moving faster, this would increase the pressure, causing a kite affect lift on the wings. A plane can't just loose that much velocity that quick to just lose all lift, yet planes seem to just fall under these circumstances.
Keeping the fuel system in order is vital. One guy fueled up a Piper one day and flew the second day, and crashed like this. The investigation showed urine in the tanks. Skipping the draining of the tanks before flying was the fault.