one thing to point out, is a horse stance doesn't need to be stationery - when I was learning traditional martial arts from my grandpa (he was a master in a few disciplines) and he said imagine you are riding a horse - you will move back and forth, shifting your gravity center when you are riding a real horse and the horse back is moving up and down. So you need to mimic that movement and shift your weight back and forward slowly and you can stand longer and train your lower back and leg muscles better.
You're quite right movement is super useful! In fact in this video- ruclips.net/video/VBpN8NaF-Tk/видео.html I talk about how rather than just holding Ma Bu, once you've got the stance down doing weighted squats would actually be better for building your strength and mobility. It's this blend of the old and the new approaches that can really elevate our practice.
Why when I'm walking uphill on my waljs I used the horse stance sidewalk movement slide. Going down hill I switch side hidari then Migei. Left side right side. And reverse it. All in Kibadachi.
had my eyes opened once when teacher explained back work in this stance as if doing a deadlift. it is very similar to that actually and grants more stability
Thank you SO MUCH for help with placing feet. Most other instructions on RUclips say "feet shoulders apart" which is not so helpful. I got an immediately boost in "chi" when I did that "one-two-three" foot maneuver until my legs were the lengths of three foot twists to the side.
Awesome! Glad it helped! I have another video on stance transitions, that goes into even more detail on foot placement. When you start transitioning between pu bu, ma bu and gong bu it becomes really important to get it just right.
I haven't done horse stance in years and the muscle memory was still there and I just snapped to it. However, 5 seconds later my knees and thighs were like "old man, what are you doing to us?!" I used to be able to hold that stance like its nothing but now it's a damn stress position!
Great that the muscle memory is still there. Never too late to get back into things, practice it a couple of times every day for a few weeks and you'll see that 5 seconds shoot up!
If you turn out your feet a little and place them wider than your knees, that should reduce joint stress on your knees, and if your thigh is sore then it means your muscle simply worked. Alternatively you can stand a little higher, or reduce the time-spent in horse stance. You likely hurt yourself because your body remembers what it is suppose to do, but is no longer as strong as it use to be - luckily strength can be built up with repeated practice, take it slow and steady, but train consistently. Side note: No need to do it couple of times a day, its sounds like you train hard during a singular session which is just fine, once a week should be perfectly adequate.
man...i need to watch again Drunken Master...like i did not watch it billion of times till now...lol. For me "Drunken Master" 1978 is one of the best kung fu movie, such a simple story but the way they act and put it in scene is magic.
Ma Bu is the base in traditional kung fu teaching . Sifu would not show you techniques if you could not stay in this stance for a long time. They where saying that you can't build a resistant house starting with the roof, you need a solid foundation! Sadly in modern gyms for kung fu teachers are not so strict because the do not want to lose their students = money. Students go there for 2-3 times per week after school or work...if some maniac Sifu will "torture" them with traditional teachings, sure they will abandon. I was lucky to study with a very good Sifu that mix the modern and traditional teaching methods, and still i seen so many quitting after days or few weeks.
Love this stance. It’s a wonderful way to use mind body and breath to achieve almost miraculous results. Well described with very good instruction. Thank you. Now at 5mins 20 secs
I really appreciate your explanations and how you present stuff. So easy to understand. I'm just getting into Tai Chi, I have hypermobility issues and mechanical spine/joint damage and I'm hoping this will help.
Thank you 🙂 Strengthening the body, gaining mobility and learning to relax are pretty much always a good thing for a healthier body 🙂 Best of luck with the training!
Going into the stance deeper is less painful. There is a perfect balance point for horse stance where it's not killing you every time to do it. The problem is it actually takes training to stay lower. The punishment happens when you try to adjust it to stand higher. It's a natural response and it burns so much worse when you do it. After you get the hang of it, it becomes a stance you love. It was one of my favorite parts of going to class. Everyone has to get into Ma Bu stance for the first few minutes at least. If you stopped you had to start the time over. So grueling but as a result I have permanent muscle on my legs XD Hung Gar training is intense but rewarding for the rest of your life. After a decade of being out of class I still use what I know to stay in shape. Also it helps you eliminate the "fake martial arts" stuff easier because you know it's not practical enough to stop iron body practices. We know our bodies so well and our strength is incredible. Loved taking Kung Fu. Chien Hong School of Kung Fu in Atlanta is legit. The instructor is a stocky white guy who has been training for 40 years. You couldn't tell just by looking at him either. He's a hardass but you will be thankful when you see the results. We were in stances for so long one time because some students were underperforming 😭🤣🤣🤣 Guy doesn't play and I respect the s*** out of it
I was reading a book called Bone Crossed and one of the characters got sent to the wall and wait in a Low Horse Stance. We don’t know any martial arts so I found this video. My son saw it and said he thinks he could do it. He did pretty good for a newbie!
As I mention in the video, I think this is a cue that crept in accidentally. Your body is in a much stronger and more mobile position if you do not tuck. For example tucking your pelvis at the start of a weighted squat is very bad form, and you would be able to safely lift far more without it. Of course some styles will talk of other benefits from this position, but if you are simply trying to move as well and powerfully as you can, I recommend neutral hips
@@KungFit Thx & understand, it´s just what I learned in Kung Fu school and have seen in several other instrucutions. But to be honest, during time of excessive practice I also found it counterproductive, but it was not to question obviously. But what feels wrong either is if the butt really sticks out which leads to not having a straight back. Well, seems I have to pick up my practice, which was the reason for watching your video in the first place anyway, and find out by myself! Best wishes to you!
You don't want to push the pelvis forward, this reduces hip mobility in this position. If you can't keep your back upright, stand a little higher in the stance. As you get stronger and more mobile, you will be able to get lower. I always say posture before depth when it comes to stances. You can keep the abs relatively relaxed, but obviously engaged enough to keep you upright!
@@KungFit true but I have damaged joints that even after surgery have to be pampered. Its ok, I had my day. I may not have youth and skill, but I do have treachery and experience on my side...lol. I still do what I can every morning.
Flunked my 1st Dan test because of weak horse stance. Wobbly knees. Sensei Frank Smith JKA 5 Dan. That was in 91. From that day on I would practice all my stance and even kata with 75lb barbell on my shoulder. In 2020 I had knee replacement due to an old sky diving injury. After surgery I went back to training. Started with Shotokan Tekki Shodan. For 3 months. Then the next two kata’s NIDAN AND SANDAN. KIBADACHI. RIDING THE MOUNTAIN. Now I do a different Kata a month. This month back to Tekki Shodan.
Awesome! Yeah I'll be training for life. Got to keep my knees attached somehow! You're quite right that training weighted is an amazing way to improve things. The blend of traditional techniques with modern approaches and equipment can make us so much better! I recommend to a lot of people to cycle through their forms once they know a few. Helps keep them fresh in your brain and body. Sounds like you are full of martial arts training wisdom 😁
@@KungFit It’s not easy at 68 and a bad left hip. But can’t stop now. The things that benefit from our martial training, will help us stay healthier and alive longer. Sensei Funakoshi said. If you did Kata 20 mins a day. You will be healthier than 98% of the population on earth. And all you have to do is look around. People don’t take there health and well being serious enough. UNTILL it’s to late. As a person with a strong MAINTENANCE background. I’m deeply grounded in Preventive MAINTENACE. Things just don’t work by themselves. And they don’t fix themselves. I’m very fortunate to have the understanding of my body,mind,and spirit. A very harmonious relationship. Even my work is martial training. Systematic step by step approach to any situation. I play guitar as well. And it’s the same as learning a advance Kata or technique. Step by step. Till it come natural. As Sensei Lee says. It hits all by itself at that point. Thank you for your understanding.
I would say to straighten your back, move your knees forward over your feet and at the same time move your back backwards. That neutralizes the hips automatically. You can feel them release. One other thing, some people are more comfortable with their feet pointed outwards. This is because of the way their hips and femur are formed. To understand this just check the mobility of turning the hips inward in a seated position.
Completely right. I always tell people that foot position is dependent on their hips and it's ok to turn out a little if it is more comfortable. There is a limit though; too far out and you lose some of that stability, especially with lateral movements, where you want the edge of the foot to dig into the ground like a spade. It's worth noting that even if you squat feet out, since it's rare to need to go that low in use of ma bu, you should be able to pull them in a little closer. I always advocate posture and application over forcing depth in your stance.
2:55 - The animals we create are morally equivalent to our own children. All of them are owed the unconditional love and protection of their creator. The experiences of animals are real and matter. Their suffering is identical in nature to your own. It harms us when we take pleasure in cruelty and violence.
The "ideal" position is toes straight forwards. It certainly helps you to close into other positions more effectively. However if we think about Ma Bu as essentially a squatting mechanic the same structural limitations apply. Some people can't effectively squat with toes forwards and need to turn the foot out a little due to their hip anatomy. So I would say aim for toes forwards, if you physically can't do that and squat low, then a slight turn out is OK. But don't use that as an excuse for feet turned out when you step into the stance from other positions! If you do go for a toes out position, remember that you need to twist your foot even more when you close your stance to punch.
Toes pointing forward is design for short distence fight fornt kicks close distence fighting toes pointing to the side is for long distence fight jump kicks jumping running and a breathing taoist exercise is applied
Hello, should the feet on Ma Bu be pointed forward, or open 30 degrees? I've seen people do it both ways and I don't know which would be correct. Or does it depend on style and family? Thanks
Different styles do suggest different things. My take is feet forwards because it allows lateral stability, say when stepping into a low jab, and when landing from a jumping position. That being said, if you find a weighted squat more comfortable with your toes pointing out, due to your hip structure, then toes out in Ma Bu is probably better for you. I generally start ppl feet forwards and see how they get in. Everyone's hips are slightly different and we want to achieve the best biomechanics for you.
In an ideal world they would face forwards, but if that position is uncomfortable you can turn them out slightly. They should not be going as far as say 45 degrees though.
For some unusual reason, in the Vietnamese martial arts, many which are direct descendants of Chinese arts, this stance is Hổ Tấn - Tiger Stance. Horse stance (Mã Tấn) is a more upright version of what you're doing at 3.49.
That's interesting, pu bu, a little like that position at 3:49 but with both feet on the floor, is also known as fu hu bu- taming the tiger stance. I wonder if somewhere along the line they got mixed up during translation?
@@KungFit I've been involved in Martial Arts since 1983...40+ years! Got big into MMA around 2000...then got too old...moved to Vietnam and got fat! 6 months ago I found out about võ cổ truyền... traditional Vietnamese martial arts... Lovely and interesting arts... On Sunday (7/1/24) I have my first grading (my last grading was 2001!).... I'd love to have a chat to help spread the word. The style I'm studying is called võ lâm chánh tông which translates as The Main Sect of the Shaolin forest...
@@JCMcGee Awesome! How did the grading go? I have to admit I know pretty much nothing about Vietnamese martial arts! Sure, feel free to drop me a line on my email 🙂
I obviously don't practice karate, but from my understanding, siko dashi has the feet turned out at 45 degrees, my feet are parallel facing forwards. For some people a perfectly forward foot isn't the optimal position due to their hip structure, but this does make other positions harder to transition to
They are Merrell Vapour Glove 4's. They are really comfortable, and have a wider fit than you get on kung fu shoes, which I like. A great show for training in
It's a pretty common problem. Often it is down to a lack of strength. I'd recommend you check out my video on fixing knee pain- ruclips.net/video/Nf9xrMFcQ4c/видео.html You could also try a slight out turn of your feet, but not too far as that will effect the applicability of the stance, as I discuss in the video
Hi there, thanks for the video. I know nothing about horse stance, but have watched several videos on it with the intent of trying it out, and all the other videos mention the importance of no anterior pelvic tilt. I know that there are different styles of stance, but your tilt is _much_ more pronounced than that of any other teacher or martial artist, and I can't help but feel that your demonstration is somehow incorrect. Thoughts? Cheers, jz
Hey, good question. What you are seeing is a combination of things. The first, to be perfectly honest, I just have a big bum! We can blame my mum's side of the family for that! 🤣 That makes it seem like my hips are tilted more than they are. At 2:11 you can see me intentionally going into greater anterior pelvic tilt. For anyone reading this that is unsure, this means that the top of the pelvis moves forwards, whilst the bottom moves back. Secondly, I would describe the desired position as neutral, however that is neutral for a squatting movement pattern. When you squat in any way your hips will go into some degree of anterior tilt relative to your thighs. If you imagine squatting down, whilst keeping your knees behind your toes, with an upright back and no change in hip position, you would end up in the shape of a chair, which would be impossible to hold due to your centre of gravity moving well behind your base. Also bear in mind that everyone's hip structure is slightly different, and so we all have different ranges of motion, posteriorly and anteriorly. Incidentally we also all have different limb proportions, so again there will be visible differences. Now as for comparisons to other teachers, a lot of people encourage actively pulling the bottom of the hips forwards into a more posterior tilt position. As I mention in the video, this limits the range of motion that you can achieve, and so what you can do with the stance. I believe that it started out as a cue for people who were leaning their body too far forward/ poking their bum too far back, but has ended up becoming a default cue, to the stance's detriment. If we understand that our stances are representations of core movement patterns that allow us to do certain things, we can really just think of Ma Bu as training a solid stable, but also flexible squat position. One of its uses for example is in throws, where we take the entire weight of a person on to our shoulders. One thing we want to avoid when lifting a lot of weight with a squat is excessive posterior pelvic tilt (aka butt wink) early in the movement, because this puts extra pressure on the spine, meaning that this hips tucked cue makes us weaker in this application. So, to sum all that up, yes I may look to have more of an anterior tilt than some people. Part of that will be deliberate, part of that will be anatomical. The key is to have the core elements of the stance right; back upright, knees over but not passing the toes and pushed out, weight evenly distributed on the foot and hips in a neutral position, i.e. about halfway between your range of posterior and anterior tilt. This will look slightly different for each person. And of course some styles like Wing Chun have a completely different horse stance position. I hope that helps clear things up 😊
@@KungFit Thank you very much for taking the time to provide such a detailed, thoughtful reply to a question that could easily have been brushed off as rude! :-) I'll review your video and notes again, and will compare with the other videos I've watched, to work on my own understanding. fyi the main videos I've studied have been one by Bioneer and another by Kitaro Waga (I find his posture in particular to be very nice ... can't explain why, and it may be influenced by his proportions, as you mention). Cheers and thank you again for your great explanation, much appreciated! jz
Yep, all your stance distances are determined by leg length, as torso size doesn't have an effect on relative hip to foot position. Also, you have the perfect build for sparring! Extra reach and a smaller target!
The version he explains mostly hits the quads. If you want to really hit the glutes, spread the legs wider, then point the feet out at the same angle as the legs. It will would look like a sumo squat (which is what it is). You well feel an immediate shift in load from the quads to the glutes. Enjoy 😂
That is certainly true. In kung fu stances the real glute work comes from xu bu. It's like a pistol squat, but with your bum further back. Of course that also hits the quads too! Kung fu is 80% quads 😂
Yeah just let your hips tip forward naturally, it's what your body needs to do to squat naturally. I would pay more attention to your back, if that tilts too far forward then your hips are most likely too far forwards too. The solution isn't to tilt your hips back at that point though, that puts you in a very weak position. Instead, work on your hip mobility and lower back strength, this will allow you to be in an upright position at lower depths and still have a mechanically strong position that doesn't put extra pressure on the spine.
Yep that's right 👍 On that note, if you start to find you hit a wall in getting lower in your splits, pushing your bum back so that your split becomes a shallow V shape when viewed from above, rather than a straight line can help; it stops the shape of the hip socket getting in the way
If you can, yes. But if that causes you to lean forward then stay higher. Go as low as you can without leaning your body. In actual use it tends to be much higher anyway
A lot of people do use the staff as a teaching tool, but I prefer not to, because it encourages depth over posture, since you need to get low enough to keep it there, or you lean forward to clamp it with your belly! As I mention, I think you should focus on getting the position right and then build the strength in the legs and lower back to get lower whilst still staying upright. Going for depth just to keep the staff there can encourage people to bend forwards too much. I've also found that the staff just doesn't work for everyone. Even if you are parallel to the ground, if you have short and muscular thighs, they will bulge upwards and the staff won't sit behind the bulge, so it just rolls off anyway.
I don't want to be negative but I do not like your sway back. You *must* tilt the pelvis and elongate the lumbar spine when you do this. And also open the kua zone by turning the thighs outward. These are two very important elements to the deeper ma bu stance.
As I mention in the video, I do not agree with the tilted hips idea, it locks off your hip mobility. If you can't move in a stance, it has lost its use. Also, you would never do a weighted squat with your hips tucked forwards, so why do it in Ma Bu, when some of it's uses involve being stable and even lifting weight? Equally it doesn't matter how low you go, unless you need to use it low, and at that point, a narrower stance will be stronger than going to maximum width. For training flexibility, wide is good though. Ultimately I always look to application and the mechanics of a movement over any stylistic preferences.
I've always seen no master holds feet parallel, then I have been wandering, could it be an unnatural stance? because of the internal rotation, sometime i think it's too much stress for meniscus. I have tore meniscus and my fear is it could come from my usual strictly parallel feet. That's why I leave this question here :-/. (thanks in advance for if somebody answers and clarify this).
I have been wondering this same thing. Been doing the stance for about a year and now I’m having inner ankle pain. Was doing it slightly turned out. Which is more natural for me. Any thoughts anyone?
@yang_yin OK, I'll preface all this by saying two things: 1) If you do feel that you have a problem with your knee that may be exacerbated by your current training, your best bet would be to speak to a good physiotherapist. They can advise you on your specific case (everyone's body and injuries are different), what to avoid for now, what to do to build up your strength etc. 2) I have a congenital issue with my knees that causes them to be naturally weak and overly mobile. Many years ago I saw a physio about it after it got to the point where I couldn't even do my library job any more because they were so bad. Amongst specific rehab exercises, he actually advised me to increase my kung fu training and never stop, because it would keep my knees strong. It's not an understatement to say that over time following his advice completely changed how I felt about my body and what I was going to be capable of doing. Right, on to the kung fu! Training with your feet parallel will help build ankle mobility and gives advantages for certain movements. For example, turning from Ma Bu for a rear arm Gong Bu (the modern version for those of you that have seen my Yao Bu vs Gong Bu video) punch, if your feet are turned out you have to rotate them a lot more in order to get them into the proper position which allows your rear hip to close up. If you do not rotate the foot enough you lose a lot of power. Having to rotate too much, slows you down and can break the structure. Another example is stepping out into Ma Bu with power, having the toes turned out means that you are more likely to sink into the knees. Having the edge of the foot step out, means you can stop sharply and transfer power better. Many Northern Shaolin teachers therefore teach Ma Bu with parallel feet. I know that some styles do not however. However that being said, I will offer two caveats. One is that any kung fu position takes time to get your body into a state to do it well. Too often people will push themselves too hard too fast and injure themselves. We need to build up the strength and mobility in our body to be able to handle these movements. The second is that if we think about Ma Bu as essentially a squat movement pattern, we know that people have anatomical differences. Some people will be far more comfortable squatting with their toes turned out due to the structure of their hips, especially as they get lower. But other people squat huge weight with the foot facing forwards all the time. Some in a narrow stance, some in a wider more Ma Bu like stance. Generally I would say the meniscus shouldn't be placed under greater stress from one foot position versus the other in a static squat position, the risk comes from sudden movement where the foot does not move enough. In this sense a turned out foot could in fact be worse, because you may try to get the rotation you need at the hips moving into Gong Bu, but not rotate the lower leg enough to support it, creating a twisting in the knee. Potentially this knee strain may come into play stepping quickly into Ma Bu, but again it's really about making sure our joints are strong enough for what we are asking of them. So to sum up, everyone is individual, work within the limits of your body, but try to strive towards that kung fu ideal, because there are good reasons for the postures being how they are.
@nickycorbett1694 I would suggest mobility and strength work for your ankles to make them more resilient; circles, flexion, calf raises, roll outs etc. I've actually got an older video on ankle mobility which may help- ruclips.net/video/1ERNtGO7vLk/видео.html You may also want to check your knee position. If you are feeling it on the inside of the ankle, i.e. towards your midline, then it may be that you need to push your knees outwards more. Having your lower leg angled inwards, whilst trying to keep your feet flat on the floor will put more pressure on the inside of the ankle. Aim to have your lower leg almost vertical. If it is a consistent or severe problem though seeing a physio is a good bet, they can advise based on your specific case. As I mention above doing it turned out is OK, it can be more natural for some people, but there are distinct advantages to having feet parallel. I hope that helps 😊
@@KungFit I asked it to my anatomy teacher once (i did 3 semesters of physiotherapy) and he just said he didn't know kung fu but as a guide feet should be neutral aligned with patella if we're going to hold a stance, or if we are doing squats (because he noticed that in mabu my patellas were pointing outwards, while my feet towards, that is obvious because we are doing an external humeral rotation plus an internal tibial rotation). But I never asked it to a clinical physiotherapist... even after my knee surgery, i don't know why 😅 I'm a little dumb.. so i think I'm going to follow your suggest. thanks for telling your experience too, it's always good to hear thr theoretical background , I'm from kickboxing so I'm a little away from traditional taolu practice, i liked it but I got scared. Thank you 👍.
@@yang_yin No worries! I would certainly agree, that generally knees in line with toes is a good default place to be. Whenever I do squats I'll have my toes pointed out, and indeed if we were lifting someone up with our ma bu for a throw, that's what I'd advise. When it comes to other mechanics though, having the feet forward is more advantageous. There are many things which the body can do which seem like a bad idea at first, but it's more about what your body is ready for. I wouldn't expect someone to be doing a perfect ma bu straight away, we build up the strength and the mobility over time. It's a bit like the old "don't put knees past your toes" idea. It's a natural thing to be doing, just many people aren't strong enough to manage, so you have to build up to it. Good luck with the training! 😃
it's not really intended for lower back mobility, things like the cat cow (in yoga) would likely be better for that. it may help, but that isn't its primary purpose. it'll definitely improve leg strength and hip mobility, but lower back mobility i'm not sure about.
@@rinkuhero well my question is more like if you practice this stance (and you would not do any other things to improve mobility ) in time will you be able to go lower with a good posture?
@@Johnny-hq3cd you'll go lower over time as your hip mobility improves yeah. but you should never only do just one exercise for mobility and nothing else. it'd be like just doing push-ups for upper body and nothing else.
Not quite, but it is similar. For a squat your foot position and angle can be adjusted to suit what you find comfortable as everyone's hip structure is different. This works fine if you are just going straight up and down. Because horse stance is also used moving between different stances and for rotating, the foot position and angle matters more. You may find narrower more comfortable for example, but then you wouldn't be able to transition from pu bu smoothly, and as I mention in the video twisting with your feet turned out puts a lot of extra strain on the knees.
@@KungFityes absolutely I would also like to add one of the best things you can get from doing the horse stance is the mental toughness aspect! After all what good is a strong body without mental toughness.
I agree with most of this, but I have seen Stephen Walker back someone up into the ropes multiple times with a tornado kick. Is not The point to takes up space and lead with offensive weapons? That being said, it’s a tool, everyone is definitely better off using simple tools; so, again, I agree with the substance of this video.
You're totally right, it can be. Different styles will use ma bu in slightly different ways. My background is Shaolin, so I tend to approach things from that direction, but there are other applications. You can use it to take up space whilst attacking, you can use it to catch your momentum, as the foundation of a throw, as a low step in, and more. At some point I'll do a follow up going into applications in more detail. So many videos to make, not enough time!
I completely agree, which is why I suggest weighted squats as the best way to further build your strength. But if you are going to practice traditional martial arts, you probably need to do Ma Bu, so its worth practicing. It's also worth noting that Bruce Lee practiced isometric exercises, like pushing against a wall. We need to be mobile, and we need to be strong; there are many methods to achieve this.
Good stuff! You'll have strong legs. 😁 You might need a bit more than just ma Bu though Why not check out some kung Fu applications in this video- ruclips.net/video/-OWyXLSDTXI/видео.html
That's a good rough estimate, but it depends on your shoulder width vs your leg length, which isn't the same for everyone. If you have long legs and narrow shoulders, you're going to be far too narrow with your stance!
Toes should be pointed out slightly. It should follow the external rotation of the tibia and will provide optimal mobility and stability for the ankle, knees, and hips. Poor mobility comes from poor stability.
A slight outwards turn is fine, but for some movements a straight foot helps, for example stepping out into a low ma bu punch. It helps stop you sinking into the knee. You definitely shouldn't try to externally rotate the tibia and keep the feet in. Wherever one goes, the other should follow.
Believe it or not I have shoddy knees too! I've got a defect with the knee cap and femur; they don't slot together properly. For a lot of people strengthening the muscles around the knee can really help in relieving pain and increasing mobility. I've got a compilation video all about fixing various joint pain. You should try giving the knee section a watch and see if the exercises in there can help you- ruclips.net/video/bOjMw7_BS44/видео.html
Doing this with your feet forward while your femor and and knees do not line up with your feet you will develop hip and knee issues that lead to hip replacement. Also this will not help your martial arts. I know this to be fact after seeing my teacher have replace 2 hips and testing how we'll this works in fighting. It does not add up. When you were doing punch at the end with your feet in the proper position you turned your waste but kept your feet in place I have to ask what are you training your horse or proper punching? I will share a video on this soon
My condolences to your teacher, however I would point out that a single data point is not proof. There are many people who have done ma bu almost their whole lives who do not have knee or hip issues, and many who have never done it that do. You are quite right that when bearing load the knees should track over the toes, but this is not a heavy load bearing movement in most cases. Training ma bu punches is about a number of things, further familiarity with the position, learning to generate power in a small movement/space by using primarily the hips and torso and developing better body control. From an application perspective, it is not about training a standard punch. This stance can be used with punching in two main ways. The first is stepping to the side to block an opponent's exit as you do so you throw a punch to their torso. You would then shift again rather than staying there to punch repeatedly in ma bu. The second is side on, stepping in to punch to the torso and you see this movement all the time in combat sports, usually as a low jab. For both of these applications you can deliver more power if you have a strong structure. Having the feet facing forwards helps keep that structure and avoid power loss through sinking legs.
Thanks for your feed back. It has been my observation and experience that when using this movement combatively and even actively in forms the feet naturally splay out to the angle you showed at the end and the same stance can be lowered to build the muscles in the legs with out injury. I used to practice this horse the same way as you did for many years until senior brothers of mine challenged my view and tested this same stance for stability. I would love to dialog more about this with you off line as I think your video is great and don't want to distract from what you do.
@@mastersheldon1920 There is certainly something to be said for differences in hip structure, just as with squats, affecting the level of splay. Ultimately we all need to find what works best for us, but we have to start somewhere. I think when it comes to structure it is sometimes forgotten that a good structure for receiving force and delivering force do not always perfectly match. A cross for example is great for delivering power, but have someone push you in that final position, and you aren't gong to be very stable. Happy to talk more off RUclips. You can drop me a line through my email, it's on my channel about page 🙂
Keeping the toes straight is actually fairly important - it stretches the tendons. There's a similar bit (not shown in this video) to how to present the hands forward during ma bu, that stretches the tendons in your arms.
ATTENTION!! You are not tucking your hips in. Think of a scarecrow - a pole is going up your wazoo, and along your back and coming out the top of your head. Don't break the pole! Shoulders over waist, waist over heels. Don't turn with your shoulders but rather with your hips. Try it! You'll like it!
As I mention in the video, not tucking the hips in is deliberate, it gives you more hip mobility and an overall stronger position. I think the hips tucked cue is something that has gone beyond it's original intention as a tool to avoid overly leaning forwards
It's not so much stability as mobility. With your hips tucked forward you have less space between the edge of your hip socket and where your femur sits. This means you can't move as far, limiting your overall range of motion and potential for power.
that picture actually isn't the perfect horse stance he is leaning forward ;) it s very hard to do a proper horse stance Ido it in chi gong but getting into it is hard once I am in it it feels proper you can feel the energy flowing with out restriction in the stance in the first picture of Jacky he wouldnt feel that he would feel the restriction in the waist at the hips which would m,ake a persoh shake after a short while
You are correct. Jackie is playing the part of a show off punk kid who is not a fully developed practitioner. In other movies like the Police Story series you can see him do proper good quality horse stance. This video is really not good. I am constantly retraining people's posture because of other teachers poor instruction. Keeps me in business though. So thanks i guess.
I've seen a few variations of the stance where there is a slight lean forward and then one where your pelvis is really tucked under and your back is perfectly vertical. I think there are varying schools of thought on this. Also , there are variations on this posture depending on if you are doing forms or actual combative applications.
@@18Hands I also have seen this also but the whole thing about stances isn't just about physical its about the energy movement if a person isn't positioned properly then the energy is restricted, and later on it causes issues and possible injury, which is why it takes a long time todo stances properly, most people just rush through it , I did this for a year until I slowed down did them properly at first it felt off and it had slight pain but now I do it it feels good much better then when I wasn't doing it properly if a person does it properly then trains another personn they will earn it properly also. SImulary walking into a school, and right away noticing the student teacher teaching this wrong I have seen this it pretty much every school I have walked into. I think what happened is the instructor taught a few students maybe improperly just being lazy and this is taught for years, or the instructor properly taught the student who then at first taught everything properly but then later got sloppy and since the original instructor is out and about else were just making the cash the people paying for it are not taught properly
@@TruFlyFox versions yes properly done no if a shifu is teaching the right version then what I explained is true but unfortunately many perople oevr the ages have gotten lazy and are nor into fame but mostly fortune ( that monthly check) instead of proper training , I have been to several different schools and out over 50 maybe two are teaching a couple of things properly it is because of the laziness, this isn't good for any martial art, all it takes is for one person to teach others incorrectly and that will be the new way of doing things and over time it creates the imbalance in people, which is why I only instruct a few people at a time if any. I also tell them to not teach others not because it is a secret it is becasue of the posiblility of the nmtreaching other incorrectly ;)
Strengthening of organs is one proposed benefit of various martial movements, yes, but it is by no means the primary one. Such ideas are a later addition when martial and daoist health practices became intertwined. It's pretty well documented. The original purpose was martial however, and far more directly observable and demonstrable than any internal health benefits. If you know of any studies demonstrating the benefits of Ma Bu or similar postures for internal health, then please do share.
great video on form, one of the best, but, i can't recommend it to people as a guide very easily, as i'm a vegan, as are most of the people i work out with, and a random clip of doing the horse stance while cooking steak seems out of place and limits is audience to carnivores. not a criticism, just mentioning it as something to keep in mind for future videos, that random things you think might not be offensive to you might limit your audience.
Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the kind words. I didn't mean to cause any offence, it's just an example of something that one might do which has a certain time factor built in, since you flip it regularly for optimum cooking. Perhaps there is another food which might be cooked with similar time factors, but this is the one that came to mind, and happened to be on the meal list that week.
You are quite right, it is; this is deliberate. If you do not tuck the hips forwards, but keep them in a neutral position, your spine maintains its natural shape, which is an S curve. If you were to stand up straight with your back to the wall you would notice a gap around your lower back. This is a normal healthy position. Rounding your lower back to create a straight line is counter to the function of this stance and natural biomechanics. You see this expressed with the idea of "butt wink" when doing weighted squats. There's more to it than just good or bad, but as a general guideline it is something to avoid for most people for optimum mechanics.
Hey Alex, I say within the video that you should keep your hips neutral, i.e. do not tilt them back or forwards, as this is the most biomechanically efficient way of doing this position. I demonstrate this range, but of course everyone's neutral position will appear slightly different, as it depends upon the bone structure of their hips and femur. Some styles/teachers do advocate a pelvis tilt for a number of reasons. I personally think that no pelvis tilt is best.
If you just want leg strength, you are quite right! That's why I recommend plenty of other strength exercises. But if you want to train kung fu, you need to learn how to do horse stance.
'Shaolin horse stance' training was developed during the era of decadence of Chinese kungfu in order to quickly train soldiers for fighting against Qing. So it is an exercise to train 'cannon fodder', not a way of training proper martial arts or building health. What surprises me that people still claim to find some great value in this trash exercise. However, it probably should not surprise me - people claim to find great value in everything, from veganism to feng shuei. Hell, bulimic girls claim that vomiting after each meal is very good for them. I personally would recommend not to train 'Shaolin horse stance'.
I'm afraid you've got the history wrong here. Ma Bu has been around for much longer than that, and there is plenty of evidence of this. It's pretty fundamental to movements in a lot of styles of kung fu. It's certainly not a miracle exercise, but if you're going to train kung fu, you need to know how to do it properly, and have a decent amount of endurance in that posture. Are there better methods for building overall strength in your legs, of course, but it is a place to start when you are also learning kung fu techniques.
@@KungFit I am not talking about Ma Bu as a stance - which is alright; but about this specific exercise where you assume a very low 'square' mabu and hold it for extended period of time. Which is, in fact, not even a 'stance' - you would not fight or move in it.
There are a ton of benefits for the ligaments, tendons and joints that you arent going to really get from lifting weights. As well as the mobility aspects of it and being able to use explosive power, maintaining balance when doing combative styles. The point of it is only to strengthen. You are not meant to fight in a low horse stance, but pushing to the extreme low stance in the exercise will make you more sturdy. Which is why Ma Bu is also sometimes referred to as the roots of a tree. If you see how much it is used in Chinese Wrestling aka. shuai jiao, they actually will execute lower horse stance and almost more like a squat. Normally in other fighting stances, you are more standing up straight. Which you learn that the horse stance can be useful for getting your balance back in fighting sports or combatives rather than just falling down. There are a lot of things to gain from it!
@@18Hands During the uprising against Qing, many quick and 'effective' methods of training - and styles! - were created. Problem is that you pay for the effectivity in the long run. This 'square mabu' exercise is fast food of martial arts - quick, but incorrect. Try to perform hand techniques in it, and watch where the energy is being generated.
Feel free to share your insight. There are different ways of doing Ma Bu in different styles, but this holds for a lot of northern styles, and considers the body mechanics involved in doing this way well. That doesn't mean we can't learn from other approaches however.
Different styles have different approaches to Ma Bu, perhaps you've been taught another way. This is the way it is most commonly done in Songshan Shaolin, and for the biomechanical reasons explained in the video, plus a few others, my preferred way to teach it. Of course all stances are flexible, and you can adjust them based on your use and even body differences.
@@KungFit Sorry for the ignorant comment then, I was unaware that there was any other way actually. I was always taught one single way with only foot width and angle adjusted to the person. I apologize.
I think you meant great form! I’ve been studying martial arts for over 2 decades & he is spot on. Might want to do some more homework before you go knocking somebody’s form you clearly know little about. Happy training👍
@@smack9516 Sure thing super-hero super ninja Mack Mr. Know it all like there is one super form. There is not, I was taught different and that his form is wrong. So Nice try on this "I've been doing this 19938304804938 years" Yeah whatever, keep injuring yourself.
You're focusing too much on how not to do rather than how to do and the constant transitions from not to do, to to do, become too difficult to follow. That's piss poor from a teaching perspective.
Apologies that you found it hard to follow. Try giving it another go at 0.75 speed :) This video is based on my experience of teaching people in person over many years; there are very common mistakes that people make even when you tell them the correct thing to do. The way to fix their position is to tell them what they are doing wrong. Since I can't see all of you, than means having to pre-emptively tell you what not to do. Hopefully you can understand why I shot this the way I did
➡ If you want to learn traditional folk style Shaolin Kung Fu apply here: www.kungfit.coach/apply
one thing to point out, is a horse stance doesn't need to be stationery - when I was learning traditional martial arts from my grandpa (he was a master in a few disciplines) and he said imagine you are riding a horse - you will move back and forth, shifting your gravity center when you are riding a real horse and the horse back is moving up and down. So you need to mimic that movement and shift your weight back and forward slowly and you can stand longer and train your lower back and leg muscles better.
You're quite right movement is super useful! In fact in this video- ruclips.net/video/VBpN8NaF-Tk/видео.html
I talk about how rather than just holding Ma Bu, once you've got the stance down doing weighted squats would actually be better for building your strength and mobility. It's this blend of the old and the new approaches that can really elevate our practice.
Thank you, that's considerate of you.
omg wow good share
Why when I'm walking uphill on my waljs I used the horse stance sidewalk movement slide. Going down hill I switch side hidari then Migei. Left side right side. And reverse it. All in Kibadachi.
One of the best guides for the horse stance, this video alone is enough to understand the exercise and the technique
Thank you! 😁
Sorry, but it's not. Far from. There's much more to MaBu than the eye can see.
had my eyes opened once when teacher explained back work in this stance as if doing a deadlift. it is very similar to that actually and grants more stability
That's actually a really good cue! As long as someone knows how to deadlift properly!
omg! and i thought i was alone brushing my teeth in ma bu!
Haha, definitely not! A classic way to train! I used to do it all the time, my teeth got brushed more and more as I prepared for gradings! 😂
I love those minimalistic shoes
They're barefoot style shoes. I have 4 pairs from Merrell and I love them both for gym and walking.
Best horse stance advice i have seen
Thank you!
What a delightful video, perfect editing and really informative 👏🏿
Thank you very much 😁
Best video I've seen on this stance. Really appreciated. Much love x gonna practice now with the kids x.
Thank you very much
Thank you SO MUCH for help with placing feet. Most other instructions on RUclips say "feet shoulders apart" which is not so helpful. I got an immediately boost in "chi" when I did that "one-two-three" foot maneuver until my legs were the lengths of three foot twists to the side.
Awesome! Glad it helped! I have another video on stance transitions, that goes into even more detail on foot placement. When you start transitioning between pu bu, ma bu and gong bu it becomes really important to get it just right.
I haven't done horse stance in years and the muscle memory was still there and I just snapped to it. However, 5 seconds later my knees and thighs were like "old man, what are you doing to us?!" I used to be able to hold that stance like its nothing but now it's a damn stress position!
Great that the muscle memory is still there. Never too late to get back into things, practice it a couple of times every day for a few weeks and you'll see that 5 seconds shoot up!
If you turn out your feet a little and place them wider than your knees, that should reduce joint stress on your knees, and if your thigh is sore then it means your muscle simply worked. Alternatively you can stand a little higher, or reduce the time-spent in horse stance. You likely hurt yourself because your body remembers what it is suppose to do, but is no longer as strong as it use to be - luckily strength can be built up with repeated practice, take it slow and steady, but train consistently.
Side note: No need to do it couple of times a day, its sounds like you train hard during a singular session which is just fine, once a week should be perfectly adequate.
man...i need to watch again Drunken Master...like i did not watch it billion of times till now...lol.
For me "Drunken Master" 1978 is one of the best kung fu movie, such a simple story but the way they act and put it in scene is magic.
Haha, you can never watch the classics too many times!
This time do horse stance for the entirety of the movie! Lol it is a good watch
@@Xheph haha, yes, definitely! The only real way to watch a kung fu movie! 😂
Horse stance is awesome💪 We use it in Calisthenics as Well😊👍
It is amazing what you can do with just body weight loaded exercise
I’ve been searching for progressions into ma bu! Thank you.
Glad I could help! How is your training going? Anything else you need help with?
Ma Bu is the base in traditional kung fu teaching .
Sifu would not show you techniques if you could not stay in this stance for a long time.
They where saying that you can't build a resistant house starting with the roof, you need a solid foundation!
Sadly in modern gyms for kung fu teachers are not so strict because the do not want to lose their students = money.
Students go there for 2-3 times per week after school or work...if some maniac Sifu will "torture" them with traditional teachings, sure they will abandon.
I was lucky to study with a very good Sifu that mix the modern and traditional teaching methods, and still i seen so many quitting after days or few weeks.
A mix of modern and traditional is definitely the best, we know so much more about how to effectively train now
Love this stance. It’s a wonderful way to use mind body and breath to achieve almost miraculous results. Well described with very good instruction. Thank you. Now at 5mins 20 secs
Thank you very much 🙂
Thank you ! Great very helpful video. I appriciate the explanation on every detail.
You're welcome! 😁 Is there anything else you would like to see videos on?
@@KungFit Hi Thank you for replay I am only just starting to learn so I if I will think off anything I will let you know. 🙂
That horse stance is majestic
Thanks! One might even say mare-jestic! *cue wide spread groans*
Great video, makes me want to give this a go!
Thanks! Let me know how you get on 😃
I really appreciate your explanations and how you present stuff. So easy to understand. I'm just getting into Tai Chi, I have hypermobility issues and mechanical spine/joint damage and I'm hoping this will help.
Thank you 🙂 Strengthening the body, gaining mobility and learning to relax are pretty much always a good thing for a healthier body 🙂 Best of luck with the training!
Thank u . God bless all.
You're welcome
Going into the stance deeper is less painful. There is a perfect balance point for horse stance where it's not killing you every time to do it. The problem is it actually takes training to stay lower. The punishment happens when you try to adjust it to stand higher. It's a natural response and it burns so much worse when you do it. After you get the hang of it, it becomes a stance you love. It was one of my favorite parts of going to class. Everyone has to get into Ma Bu stance for the first few minutes at least. If you stopped you had to start the time over. So grueling but as a result I have permanent muscle on my legs XD Hung Gar training is intense but rewarding for the rest of your life. After a decade of being out of class I still use what I know to stay in shape. Also it helps you eliminate the "fake martial arts" stuff easier because you know it's not practical enough to stop iron body practices. We know our bodies so well and our strength is incredible. Loved taking Kung Fu. Chien Hong School of Kung Fu in Atlanta is legit. The instructor is a stocky white guy who has been training for 40 years. You couldn't tell just by looking at him either. He's a hardass but you will be thankful when you see the results. We were in stances for so long one time because some students were underperforming 😭🤣🤣🤣 Guy doesn't play and I respect the s*** out of it
Hey Chief, I can do it since years - I am 66.
Great stuff! I very much believe in keeping on training your whole life 😁
I was reading a book called Bone Crossed and one of the characters got sent to the wall and wait in a Low Horse Stance. We don’t know any martial arts so I found this video. My son saw it and said he thinks he could do it. He did pretty good for a newbie!
That's awesome! Martial arts are definitely a great activity for kids to get into, see if you can foster that enthusiasm :)
Great video, I am just missing to tuck in the pelvis/hips, which is a quite important part in this practice traditionally.
As I mention in the video, I think this is a cue that crept in accidentally. Your body is in a much stronger and more mobile position if you do not tuck. For example tucking your pelvis at the start of a weighted squat is very bad form, and you would be able to safely lift far more without it.
Of course some styles will talk of other benefits from this position, but if you are simply trying to move as well and powerfully as you can, I recommend neutral hips
@@KungFit Thx & understand, it´s just what I learned in Kung Fu school and have seen in several other instrucutions. But to be honest, during time of excessive practice I also found it counterproductive, but it was not to question obviously. But what feels wrong either is if the butt really sticks out which leads to not having a straight back. Well, seems I have to pick up my practice, which was the reason for watching your video in the first place anyway, and find out by myself! Best wishes to you!
Yeah a lot of people teach that way. And of course there are always stylistic differences. Good luck with the training! 🦾
Should I tension the lower abs and push pelvis forward to be as straight as possible? Or abs relaxed?
You don't want to push the pelvis forward, this reduces hip mobility in this position. If you can't keep your back upright, stand a little higher in the stance. As you get stronger and more mobile, you will be able to get lower. I always say posture before depth when it comes to stances.
You can keep the abs relatively relaxed, but obviously engaged enough to keep you upright!
Great video 👍
Thanks!
I had a Shaolin teacher years ago and he would do the horse stance for 20 minutes every morning.
A good way to start your day!
Good stuff, sibscribed😊
Awesome, thank you!
Many thanks, Damien 😃. Very good explained. See you in the Training. Warm regards, Katja
No problem! 😃
Thanks for sharing 🙏🏾
You're welcome!
stronger spine stronger mind.
and stronger willpower, stronger body! How's your training going?
During earlier TKD/Hapkido days I could do this for a long time without shaking, now at 62 it would blow my knees out.
It's never too late to get back into things if you start slow, you can build back up to it. I've got clients training kung fu who are older than you!
@@KungFit true but I have damaged joints that even after surgery have to be pampered. Its ok, I had my day. I may not have youth and skill, but I do have treachery and experience on my side...lol. I still do what I can every morning.
@@stevenlowe3245 haha, love it! I'll make sure not to cross you!
look at the book chi -kung way of power it teaches stances that increase the flow of chi. i always start the day standing in wu-chi
Flunked my 1st Dan test because of weak horse stance. Wobbly knees. Sensei Frank Smith JKA 5 Dan. That was in 91. From that day on I would practice all my stance and even kata with 75lb barbell on my shoulder. In 2020 I had knee replacement due to an old sky diving injury. After surgery I went back to training. Started with Shotokan Tekki Shodan. For 3 months. Then the next two kata’s NIDAN AND SANDAN. KIBADACHI. RIDING THE MOUNTAIN. Now I do a different Kata a month. This month back to Tekki Shodan.
Awesome! Yeah I'll be training for life. Got to keep my knees attached somehow! You're quite right that training weighted is an amazing way to improve things. The blend of traditional techniques with modern approaches and equipment can make us so much better!
I recommend to a lot of people to cycle through their forms once they know a few. Helps keep them fresh in your brain and body. Sounds like you are full of martial arts training wisdom 😁
@@KungFit It’s not easy at 68 and a bad left hip. But can’t stop now. The things that benefit from our martial training, will help us stay healthier and alive longer. Sensei Funakoshi said. If you did Kata 20 mins a day. You will be healthier than 98% of the population on earth. And all you have to do is look around. People don’t take there health and well being serious enough. UNTILL it’s to late. As a person with a strong MAINTENANCE background. I’m deeply grounded in Preventive MAINTENACE. Things just don’t work by themselves. And they don’t fix themselves. I’m very fortunate to have the understanding of my body,mind,and spirit. A very harmonious relationship. Even my work is martial training. Systematic step by step approach to any situation. I play guitar as well. And it’s the same as learning a advance Kata or technique. Step by step. Till it come natural. As Sensei Lee says. It hits all by itself at that point. Thank you for your understanding.
Thanks
No problem
I would say to straighten your back, move your knees forward over your feet and at the same time move your back backwards. That neutralizes the hips automatically. You can feel them release. One other thing, some people are more comfortable with their feet pointed outwards. This is because of the way their hips and femur are formed. To understand this just check the mobility of turning the hips inward in a seated position.
Completely right. I always tell people that foot position is dependent on their hips and it's ok to turn out a little if it is more comfortable. There is a limit though; too far out and you lose some of that stability, especially with lateral movements, where you want the edge of the foot to dig into the ground like a spade. It's worth noting that even if you squat feet out, since it's rare to need to go that low in use of ma bu, you should be able to pull them in a little closer.
I always advocate posture and application over forcing depth in your stance.
2:55 - The animals we create are morally equivalent to our own children. All of them are owed the unconditional love and protection of their creator. The experiences of animals are real and matter. Their suffering is identical in nature to your own. It harms us when we take pleasure in cruelty and violence.
do toes point outward or straight forward?
The "ideal" position is toes straight forwards. It certainly helps you to close into other positions more effectively. However if we think about Ma Bu as essentially a squatting mechanic the same structural limitations apply. Some people can't effectively squat with toes forwards and need to turn the foot out a little due to their hip anatomy.
So I would say aim for toes forwards, if you physically can't do that and squat low, then a slight turn out is OK. But don't use that as an excuse for feet turned out when you step into the stance from other positions! If you do go for a toes out position, remember that you need to twist your foot even more when you close your stance to punch.
Honestly it’s rare to see anyone do horse stance well
Stance work is often where people fall down, figuratively speaking
Toes pointing forward is design for short distence fight fornt kicks close distence fighting toes pointing to the side is for long distence fight jump kicks jumping running and a breathing taoist exercise is applied
Hello, should the feet on Ma Bu be pointed forward, or open 30 degrees? I've seen people do it both ways and I don't know which would be correct. Or does it depend on style and family? Thanks
Different styles do suggest different things. My take is feet forwards because it allows lateral stability, say when stepping into a low jab, and when landing from a jumping position.
That being said, if you find a weighted squat more comfortable with your toes pointing out, due to your hip structure, then toes out in Ma Bu is probably better for you. I generally start ppl feet forwards and see how they get in. Everyone's hips are slightly different and we want to achieve the best biomechanics for you.
Fab, thank you, for the detailed breakdown... and for the added humour! x
You're welcome! Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see videos on
Brilliant 🙏💪🙏
Thank you!
does my feet have to face forward or can i make it face outwards?
In an ideal world they would face forwards, but if that position is uncomfortable you can turn them out slightly. They should not be going as far as say 45 degrees though.
For some unusual reason, in the Vietnamese martial arts, many which are direct descendants of Chinese arts, this stance is Hổ Tấn - Tiger Stance. Horse stance (Mã Tấn) is a more upright version of what you're doing at 3.49.
That's interesting, pu bu, a little like that position at 3:49 but with both feet on the floor, is also known as fu hu bu- taming the tiger stance.
I wonder if somewhere along the line they got mixed up during translation?
@@KungFit I've been involved in Martial Arts since 1983...40+ years! Got big into MMA around 2000...then got too old...moved to Vietnam and got fat!
6 months ago I found out about võ cổ truyền... traditional Vietnamese martial arts... Lovely and interesting arts... On Sunday (7/1/24) I have my first grading (my last grading was 2001!).... I'd love to have a chat to help spread the word.
The style I'm studying is called võ lâm chánh tông which translates as The Main Sect of the Shaolin forest...
@@JCMcGee Awesome! How did the grading go?
I have to admit I know pretty much nothing about Vietnamese martial arts! Sure, feel free to drop me a line on my email 🙂
For kiba dashi your feet must be strictly parallel. This is the earth stance. You are performing siko dashi, which is the wood yang stance.
I obviously don't practice karate, but from my understanding, siko dashi has the feet turned out at 45 degrees, my feet are parallel facing forwards. For some people a perfectly forward foot isn't the optimal position due to their hip structure, but this does make other positions harder to transition to
What shes are these you wear in the Video
They are Merrell Vapour Glove 4's. They are really comfortable, and have a wider fit than you get on kung fu shoes, which I like. A great show for training in
how about the pain in the knee?
It's a pretty common problem. Often it is down to a lack of strength. I'd recommend you check out my video on fixing knee pain- ruclips.net/video/Nf9xrMFcQ4c/видео.html
You could also try a slight out turn of your feet, but not too far as that will effect the applicability of the stance, as I discuss in the video
Hi there, thanks for the video. I know nothing about horse stance, but have watched several videos on it with the intent of trying it out, and all the other videos mention the importance of no anterior pelvic tilt. I know that there are different styles of stance, but your tilt is _much_ more pronounced than that of any other teacher or martial artist, and I can't help but feel that your demonstration is somehow incorrect. Thoughts? Cheers, jz
Hey, good question. What you are seeing is a combination of things. The first, to be perfectly honest, I just have a big bum! We can blame my mum's side of the family for that! 🤣 That makes it seem like my hips are tilted more than they are. At 2:11 you can see me intentionally going into greater anterior pelvic tilt. For anyone reading this that is unsure, this means that the top of the pelvis moves forwards, whilst the bottom moves back.
Secondly, I would describe the desired position as neutral, however that is neutral for a squatting movement pattern. When you squat in any way your hips will go into some degree of anterior tilt relative to your thighs. If you imagine squatting down, whilst keeping your knees behind your toes, with an upright back and no change in hip position, you would end up in the shape of a chair, which would be impossible to hold due to your centre of gravity moving well behind your base.
Also bear in mind that everyone's hip structure is slightly different, and so we all have different ranges of motion, posteriorly and anteriorly. Incidentally we also all have different limb proportions, so again there will be visible differences.
Now as for comparisons to other teachers, a lot of people encourage actively pulling the bottom of the hips forwards into a more posterior tilt position. As I mention in the video, this limits the range of motion that you can achieve, and so what you can do with the stance. I believe that it started out as a cue for people who were leaning their body too far forward/ poking their bum too far back, but has ended up becoming a default cue, to the stance's detriment. If we understand that our stances are representations of core movement patterns that allow us to do certain things, we can really just think of Ma Bu as training a solid stable, but also flexible squat position. One of its uses for example is in throws, where we take the entire weight of a person on to our shoulders. One thing we want to avoid when lifting a lot of weight with a squat is excessive posterior pelvic tilt (aka butt wink) early in the movement, because this puts extra pressure on the spine, meaning that this hips tucked cue makes us weaker in this application.
So, to sum all that up, yes I may look to have more of an anterior tilt than some people. Part of that will be deliberate, part of that will be anatomical. The key is to have the core elements of the stance right; back upright, knees over but not passing the toes and pushed out, weight evenly distributed on the foot and hips in a neutral position, i.e. about halfway between your range of posterior and anterior tilt. This will look slightly different for each person.
And of course some styles like Wing Chun have a completely different horse stance position.
I hope that helps clear things up 😊
@@KungFit Thank you very much for taking the time to provide such a detailed, thoughtful reply to a question that could easily have been brushed off as rude! :-) I'll review your video and notes again, and will compare with the other videos I've watched, to work on my own understanding. fyi the main videos I've studied have been one by Bioneer and another by Kitaro Waga (I find his posture in particular to be very nice ... can't explain why, and it may be influenced by his proportions, as you mention). Cheers and thank you again for your great explanation, much appreciated! jz
what if you have long legs and arms but short torso ? do i still need to go a leg apart im 5'8 by the way
Yep, all your stance distances are determined by leg length, as torso size doesn't have an effect on relative hip to foot position.
Also, you have the perfect build for sparring! Extra reach and a smaller target!
The version he explains mostly hits the quads.
If you want to really hit the glutes, spread the legs wider, then point the feet out at the same angle as the legs. It will would look like a sumo squat (which is what it is).
You well feel an immediate shift in load from the quads to the glutes.
Enjoy 😂
That is certainly true. In kung fu stances the real glute work comes from xu bu. It's like a pistol squat, but with your bum further back. Of course that also hits the quads too! Kung fu is 80% quads 😂
Horse stance isnt a squat and squat isnt a horse stance. 2 different things with 2 different intentions ! cheers.
@@18Hands You're quite right, but they work all the same muscles, it is a squat pattern movement, as we'd say in the personal trainer world
Do you just allow the pelvis to tip forward or do you tuck it just enough to not have pelvic tilt?
Yeah just let your hips tip forward naturally, it's what your body needs to do to squat naturally.
I would pay more attention to your back, if that tilts too far forward then your hips are most likely too far forwards too. The solution isn't to tilt your hips back at that point though, that puts you in a very weak position.
Instead, work on your hip mobility and lower back strength, this will allow you to be in an upright position at lower depths and still have a mechanically strong position that doesn't put extra pressure on the spine.
@@KungFit cool then its almost like when you move into a wider stradle and move into the center splits… thanks for the reply🙏🏽❤️
Yep that's right 👍 On that note, if you start to find you hit a wall in getting lower in your splits, pushing your bum back so that your split becomes a shallow V shape when viewed from above, rather than a straight line can help; it stops the shape of the hip socket getting in the way
thighs parallel to the ground?
If you can, yes. But if that causes you to lean forward then stay higher. Go as low as you can without leaning your body. In actual use it tends to be much higher anyway
Surprised there’s no mention of using a pole or can once in proper position on the lap to help focus on pose. If it rolls off adjust
A lot of people do use the staff as a teaching tool, but I prefer not to, because it encourages depth over posture, since you need to get low enough to keep it there, or you lean forward to clamp it with your belly!
As I mention, I think you should focus on getting the position right and then build the strength in the legs and lower back to get lower whilst still staying upright. Going for depth just to keep the staff there can encourage people to bend forwards too much.
I've also found that the staff just doesn't work for everyone. Even if you are parallel to the ground, if you have short and muscular thighs, they will bulge upwards and the staff won't sit behind the bulge, so it just rolls off anyway.
Very clearly explained. I still prefer the video where the real boss clatters you. The Rooster That Needs To Wobble Less 🕊
4:04 1 man 5 cups !
I don't want to be negative but I do not like your sway back. You *must* tilt the pelvis and elongate the lumbar spine when you do this. And also open the kua zone by turning the thighs outward. These are two very important elements to the deeper ma bu stance.
As I mention in the video, I do not agree with the tilted hips idea, it locks off your hip mobility. If you can't move in a stance, it has lost its use. Also, you would never do a weighted squat with your hips tucked forwards, so why do it in Ma Bu, when some of it's uses involve being stable and even lifting weight?
Equally it doesn't matter how low you go, unless you need to use it low, and at that point, a narrower stance will be stronger than going to maximum width. For training flexibility, wide is good though.
Ultimately I always look to application and the mechanics of a movement over any stylistic preferences.
I've always seen no master holds feet parallel, then I have been wandering, could it be an unnatural stance? because of the internal rotation, sometime i think it's too much stress for meniscus.
I have tore meniscus and my fear is it could come from my usual strictly parallel feet.
That's why I leave this question here :-/.
(thanks in advance for if somebody answers and clarify this).
I have been wondering this same thing. Been doing the stance for about a year and now I’m having inner ankle pain. Was doing it slightly turned out. Which is more natural for me. Any thoughts anyone?
@yang_yin OK, I'll preface all this by saying two things:
1) If you do feel that you have a problem with your knee that may be exacerbated by your current training, your best bet would be to speak to a good physiotherapist. They can advise you on your specific case (everyone's body and injuries are different), what to avoid for now, what to do to build up your strength etc.
2) I have a congenital issue with my knees that causes them to be naturally weak and overly mobile. Many years ago I saw a physio about it after it got to the point where I couldn't even do my library job any more because they were so bad. Amongst specific rehab exercises, he actually advised me to increase my kung fu training and never stop, because it would keep my knees strong. It's not an understatement to say that over time following his advice completely changed how I felt about my body and what I was going to be capable of doing.
Right, on to the kung fu!
Training with your feet parallel will help build ankle mobility and gives advantages for certain movements. For example, turning from Ma Bu for a rear arm Gong Bu (the modern version for those of you that have seen my Yao Bu vs Gong Bu video) punch, if your feet are turned out you have to rotate them a lot more in order to get them into the proper position which allows your rear hip to close up. If you do not rotate the foot enough you lose a lot of power. Having to rotate too much, slows you down and can break the structure.
Another example is stepping out into Ma Bu with power, having the toes turned out means that you are more likely to sink into the knees. Having the edge of the foot step out, means you can stop sharply and transfer power better.
Many Northern Shaolin teachers therefore teach Ma Bu with parallel feet. I know that some styles do not however.
However that being said, I will offer two caveats. One is that any kung fu position takes time to get your body into a state to do it well. Too often people will push themselves too hard too fast and injure themselves. We need to build up the strength and mobility in our body to be able to handle these movements.
The second is that if we think about Ma Bu as essentially a squat movement pattern, we know that people have anatomical differences. Some people will be far more comfortable squatting with their toes turned out due to the structure of their hips, especially as they get lower. But other people squat huge weight with the foot facing forwards all the time. Some in a narrow stance, some in a wider more Ma Bu like stance.
Generally I would say the meniscus shouldn't be placed under greater stress from one foot position versus the other in a static squat position, the risk comes from sudden movement where the foot does not move enough. In this sense a turned out foot could in fact be worse, because you may try to get the rotation you need at the hips moving into Gong Bu, but not rotate the lower leg enough to support it, creating a twisting in the knee. Potentially this knee strain may come into play stepping quickly into Ma Bu, but again it's really about making sure our joints are strong enough for what we are asking of them.
So to sum up, everyone is individual, work within the limits of your body, but try to strive towards that kung fu ideal, because there are good reasons for the postures being how they are.
@nickycorbett1694 I would suggest mobility and strength work for your ankles to make them more resilient; circles, flexion, calf raises, roll outs etc. I've actually got an older video on ankle mobility which may help- ruclips.net/video/1ERNtGO7vLk/видео.html
You may also want to check your knee position. If you are feeling it on the inside of the ankle, i.e. towards your midline, then it may be that you need to push your knees outwards more. Having your lower leg angled inwards, whilst trying to keep your feet flat on the floor will put more pressure on the inside of the ankle. Aim to have your lower leg almost vertical.
If it is a consistent or severe problem though seeing a physio is a good bet, they can advise based on your specific case.
As I mention above doing it turned out is OK, it can be more natural for some people, but there are distinct advantages to having feet parallel.
I hope that helps 😊
@@KungFit I asked it to my anatomy teacher once (i did 3 semesters of physiotherapy) and he just said he didn't know kung fu but as a guide feet should be neutral aligned with patella if we're going to hold a stance, or if we are doing squats (because he noticed that in mabu my patellas were pointing outwards, while my feet towards, that is obvious because we are doing an external humeral rotation plus an internal tibial rotation).
But I never asked it to a clinical physiotherapist... even after my knee surgery, i don't know why 😅 I'm a little dumb.. so i think I'm going to follow your suggest.
thanks for telling your experience too, it's always good to hear thr theoretical background , I'm from kickboxing so I'm a little away from traditional taolu practice, i liked it but I got scared.
Thank you 👍.
@@yang_yin No worries! I would certainly agree, that generally knees in line with toes is a good default place to be. Whenever I do squats I'll have my toes pointed out, and indeed if we were lifting someone up with our ma bu for a throw, that's what I'd advise.
When it comes to other mechanics though, having the feet forward is more advantageous. There are many things which the body can do which seem like a bad idea at first, but it's more about what your body is ready for. I wouldn't expect someone to be doing a perfect ma bu straight away, we build up the strength and the mobility over time. It's a bit like the old "don't put knees past your toes" idea. It's a natural thing to be doing, just many people aren't strong enough to manage, so you have to build up to it.
Good luck with the training! 😃
Will this improve lower back mobility and strength over time, so that you can go lower?
it's not really intended for lower back mobility, things like the cat cow (in yoga) would likely be better for that. it may help, but that isn't its primary purpose. it'll definitely improve leg strength and hip mobility, but lower back mobility i'm not sure about.
@@rinkuhero well my question is more like if you practice this stance (and you would not do any other things to improve mobility ) in time will you be able to go lower with a good posture?
@@Johnny-hq3cd you'll go lower over time as your hip mobility improves yeah. but you should never only do just one exercise for mobility and nothing else. it'd be like just doing push-ups for upper body and nothing else.
@@rinkuhero i know, i was hypothetically speaking to understand the impact of practicing this stance
Hip dysplasia is the main determining factor.
So is Horse Stance just an isometric Sumo Squat?
Not quite, but it is similar. For a squat your foot position and angle can be adjusted to suit what you find comfortable as everyone's hip structure is different. This works fine if you are just going straight up and down.
Because horse stance is also used moving between different stances and for rotating, the foot position and angle matters more. You may find narrower more comfortable for example, but then you wouldn't be able to transition from pu bu smoothly, and as I mention in the video twisting with your feet turned out puts a lot of extra strain on the knees.
@@KungFityes absolutely I would also like to add one of the best things you can get from doing the horse stance is the mental toughness aspect! After all what good is a strong body without mental toughness.
What is ma bu ?
Ma Bu is Mandarin (one of the two Chinese languages along with Cantonese) for horse stance
I agree with most of this, but I have seen Stephen Walker back someone up into the ropes multiple times with a tornado kick.
Is not The point to takes up space and lead with offensive weapons?
That being said, it’s a tool, everyone is definitely better off using simple tools; so, again, I agree with the substance of this video.
You're totally right, it can be. Different styles will use ma bu in slightly different ways. My background is Shaolin, so I tend to approach things from that direction, but there are other applications. You can use it to take up space whilst attacking, you can use it to catch your momentum, as the foundation of a throw, as a low step in, and more.
At some point I'll do a follow up going into applications in more detail. So many videos to make, not enough time!
NO we want to be like Bruce Lee. "We do not want strength in immobility but strength in mobility." Bruce Lee.
I completely agree, which is why I suggest weighted squats as the best way to further build your strength. But if you are going to practice traditional martial arts, you probably need to do Ma Bu, so its worth practicing.
It's also worth noting that Bruce Lee practiced isometric exercises, like pushing against a wall. We need to be mobile, and we need to be strong; there are many methods to achieve this.
My training for Fight Club
Good stuff! You'll have strong legs. 😁 You might need a bit more than just ma Bu though Why not check out some kung Fu applications in this video- ruclips.net/video/-OWyXLSDTXI/видео.html
Horse stance a little over sholder wide.
That's a good rough estimate, but it depends on your shoulder width vs your leg length, which isn't the same for everyone. If you have long legs and narrow shoulders, you're going to be far too narrow with your stance!
👍
Toes should be pointed out slightly. It should follow the external rotation of the tibia and will provide optimal mobility and stability for the ankle, knees, and hips.
Poor mobility comes from poor stability.
A slight outwards turn is fine, but for some movements a straight foot helps, for example stepping out into a low ma bu punch. It helps stop you sinking into the knee. You definitely shouldn't try to externally rotate the tibia and keep the feet in. Wherever one goes, the other should follow.
2:43 😂😂😂
I am 66 years old and I do about an hour workout a day now I added the 🐎 stance you can tell this old woman nothing 😅😅😅
I can do nothing like this, my knees are completely stuffed.
Believe it or not I have shoddy knees too! I've got a defect with the knee cap and femur; they don't slot together properly. For a lot of people strengthening the muscles around the knee can really help in relieving pain and increasing mobility.
I've got a compilation video all about fixing various joint pain. You should try giving the knee section a watch and see if the exercises in there can help you- ruclips.net/video/bOjMw7_BS44/видео.html
Doing this with your feet forward while your femor and and knees do not line up with your feet you will develop hip and knee issues that lead to hip replacement. Also this will not help your martial arts. I know this to be fact after seeing my teacher have replace 2 hips and testing how we'll this works in fighting. It does not add up. When you were doing punch at the end with your feet in the proper position you turned your waste but kept your feet in place I have to ask what are you training your horse or proper punching?
I will share a video on this soon
My condolences to your teacher, however I would point out that a single data point is not proof.
There are many people who have done ma bu almost their whole lives who do not have knee or hip issues, and many who have never done it that do.
You are quite right that when bearing load the knees should track over the toes, but this is not a heavy load bearing movement in most cases.
Training ma bu punches is about a number of things, further familiarity with the position, learning to generate power in a small movement/space by using primarily the hips and torso and developing better body control.
From an application perspective, it is not about training a standard punch. This stance can be used with punching in two main ways. The first is stepping to the side to block an opponent's exit as you do so you throw a punch to their torso. You would then shift again rather than staying there to punch repeatedly in ma bu.
The second is side on, stepping in to punch to the torso and you see this movement all the time in combat sports, usually as a low jab.
For both of these applications you can deliver more power if you have a strong structure. Having the feet facing forwards helps keep that structure and avoid power loss through sinking legs.
Thanks for your feed back. It has been my observation and experience that when using this movement combatively and even actively in forms the feet naturally splay out to the angle you showed at the end and the same stance can be lowered to build the muscles in the legs with out injury. I used to practice this horse the same way as you did for many years until senior brothers of mine challenged my view and tested this same stance for stability. I would love to dialog more about this with you off line as I think your video is great and don't want to distract from what you do.
@@mastersheldon1920 There is certainly something to be said for differences in hip structure, just as with squats, affecting the level of splay. Ultimately we all need to find what works best for us, but we have to start somewhere.
I think when it comes to structure it is sometimes forgotten that a good structure for receiving force and delivering force do not always perfectly match. A cross for example is great for delivering power, but have someone push you in that final position, and you aren't gong to be very stable.
Happy to talk more off RUclips. You can drop me a line through my email, it's on my channel about page 🙂
Get up to four or five minutes straight in ma bu - then you're in pretty good shape
Keeping the toes straight is actually fairly important - it stretches the tendons. There's a similar bit (not shown in this video) to how to present the hands forward during ma bu, that stretches the tendons in your arms.
ATTENTION!! You are not tucking your hips in. Think of a scarecrow - a pole is going up your wazoo, and along your back and coming out the top of your head. Don't break the pole! Shoulders over waist, waist over heels. Don't turn with your shoulders but rather with your hips. Try it! You'll like it!
As I mention in the video, not tucking the hips in is deliberate, it gives you more hip mobility and an overall stronger position. I think the hips tucked cue is something that has gone beyond it's original intention as a tool to avoid overly leaning forwards
@@KungFit No, it puts your shoulders over your hips and allows your hips over your heels. Better balance. Look how Bruce Lee stands for an example.
Why are you unstable with hips forward? PRI!
It's not so much stability as mobility. With your hips tucked forward you have less space between the edge of your hip socket and where your femur sits. This means you can't move as far, limiting your overall range of motion and potential for power.
you are so funny 😂
I have stronger mabu muscles and tendons than I thought
That first move he was trying(and failing hilariously) to do was Horse Stance:
m.ruclips.net/video/VFxQQ1kf5cU/видео.html
In 30 second I start to feel burn.
Yep, Ma Bu will do that to you! Keep training it and it will get easier
Oosh
pքɾօʍօʂʍ 👍
that picture actually isn't the perfect horse stance he is leaning forward ;) it s very hard to do a proper horse stance Ido it in chi gong but getting into it is hard once I am in it it feels proper you can feel the energy flowing with out restriction in the stance in the first picture of Jacky he wouldnt feel that he would feel the restriction in the waist at the hips which would m,ake a persoh shake after a short while
You are correct. Jackie is playing the part of a show off punk kid who is not a fully developed practitioner. In other movies like the Police Story series you can see him do proper good quality horse stance. This video is really not good. I am constantly retraining people's posture because of other teachers poor instruction. Keeps me in business though. So thanks i guess.
I've seen a few variations of the stance where there is a slight lean forward and then one where your pelvis is really tucked under and your back is perfectly vertical. I think there are varying schools of thought on this. Also , there are variations on this posture depending on if you are doing forms or actual combative applications.
@@18Hands I also have seen this also but the whole thing about stances isn't just about physical its about the energy movement if a person isn't positioned properly then the energy is restricted, and later on it causes issues and possible injury, which is why it takes a long time todo stances properly, most people just rush through it , I did this for a year until I slowed down did them properly at first it felt off and it had slight pain but now I do it it feels good much better then when I wasn't doing it properly if a person does it properly then trains another personn they will earn it properly also.
SImulary walking into a school, and right away noticing the student teacher teaching this wrong I have seen this it pretty much every school I have walked into. I think what happened is the instructor taught a few students maybe improperly just being lazy and this is taught for years, or the instructor properly taught the student who then at first taught everything properly but then later got sloppy and since the original instructor is out and about else were just making the cash the people paying for it are not taught properly
@@erikkdraven there are several versions of the horse stance. Being pedantic is not very useful in anything.
@@TruFlyFox versions yes properly done no if a shifu is teaching the right version then what I explained is true but unfortunately many perople oevr the ages have gotten lazy and are nor into fame but mostly fortune ( that monthly check) instead of proper training , I have been to several different schools and out over 50 maybe two are teaching a couple of things properly it is because of the laziness, this isn't good for any martial art, all it takes is for one person to teach others incorrectly and that will be the new way of doing things and over time it creates the imbalance in people, which is why I only instruct a few people at a time if any. I also tell them to not teach others not because it is a secret it is becasue of the posiblility of the nmtreaching other incorrectly ;)
Dragon
馬歩の主眼は内臓強化だと
こやつは理解しているのか？
Strengthening of organs is one proposed benefit of various martial movements, yes, but it is by no means the primary one. Such ideas are a later addition when martial and daoist health practices became intertwined. It's pretty well documented.
The original purpose was martial however, and far more directly observable and demonstrable than any internal health benefits. If you know of any studies demonstrating the benefits of Ma Bu or similar postures for internal health, then please do share.
Whats😅 u really replicate that movie
great video on form, one of the best, but, i can't recommend it to people as a guide very easily, as i'm a vegan, as are most of the people i work out with, and a random clip of doing the horse stance while cooking steak seems out of place and limits is audience to carnivores. not a criticism, just mentioning it as something to keep in mind for future videos, that random things you think might not be offensive to you might limit your audience.
Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the kind words. I didn't mean to cause any offence, it's just an example of something that one might do which has a certain time factor built in, since you flip it regularly for optimum cooking. Perhaps there is another food which might be cooked with similar time factors, but this is the one that came to mind, and happened to be on the meal list that week.
watch your hollow back.
2:12 Huh? Reverse horse stance? 🤣🏳🌈
Your back is arched from the wall your legs can do horse stance but you back not
You are quite right, it is; this is deliberate. If you do not tuck the hips forwards, but keep them in a neutral position, your spine maintains its natural shape, which is an S curve. If you were to stand up straight with your back to the wall you would notice a gap around your lower back. This is a normal healthy position. Rounding your lower back to create a straight line is counter to the function of this stance and natural biomechanics.
You see this expressed with the idea of "butt wink" when doing weighted squats. There's more to it than just good or bad, but as a general guideline it is something to avoid for most people for optimum mechanics.
😂😅😅😂
Brushing your teeth in horse stance is the way!
Yes, most definitely!
no pelvis tilt, you're doing it totally wrong
Hey Alex, I say within the video that you should keep your hips neutral, i.e. do not tilt them back or forwards, as this is the most biomechanically efficient way of doing this position. I demonstrate this range, but of course everyone's neutral position will appear slightly different, as it depends upon the bone structure of their hips and femur.
Some styles/teachers do advocate a pelvis tilt for a number of reasons. I personally think that no pelvis tilt is best.
There might be better, more efficient ways to train, visit a gym, get a personal trainer.
If you just want leg strength, you are quite right! That's why I recommend plenty of other strength exercises. But if you want to train kung fu, you need to learn how to do horse stance.
Bro, you are on the carpet, take those shoes off
You'd be surprised how slippy thick carpet and socks get together. I keep these shoes just for indoor training
'Shaolin horse stance' training was developed during the era of decadence of Chinese kungfu in order to quickly train soldiers for fighting against Qing.
So it is an exercise to train 'cannon fodder', not a way of training proper martial arts or building health.
What surprises me that people still claim to find some great value in this trash exercise. However, it probably should not surprise me - people claim to find great value in everything, from veganism to feng shuei. Hell, bulimic girls claim that vomiting after each meal is very good for them.
I personally would recommend not to train 'Shaolin horse stance'.
I'm afraid you've got the history wrong here. Ma Bu has been around for much longer than that, and there is plenty of evidence of this. It's pretty fundamental to movements in a lot of styles of kung fu. It's certainly not a miracle exercise, but if you're going to train kung fu, you need to know how to do it properly, and have a decent amount of endurance in that posture.
Are there better methods for building overall strength in your legs, of course, but it is a place to start when you are also learning kung fu techniques.
@@KungFit I am not talking about Ma Bu as a stance - which is alright; but about this specific exercise where you assume a very low 'square' mabu and hold it for extended period of time.
Which is, in fact, not even a 'stance' - you would not fight or move in it.
There are a ton of benefits for the ligaments, tendons and joints that you arent going to really get from lifting weights. As well as the mobility aspects of it and being able to use explosive power, maintaining balance when doing combative styles. The point of it is only to strengthen. You are not meant to fight in a low horse stance, but pushing to the extreme low stance in the exercise will make you more sturdy. Which is why Ma Bu is also sometimes referred to as the roots of a tree. If you see how much it is used in Chinese Wrestling aka. shuai jiao, they actually will execute lower horse stance and almost more like a squat. Normally in other fighting stances, you are more standing up straight. Which you learn that the horse stance can be useful for getting your balance back in fighting sports or combatives rather than just falling down. There are a lot of things to gain from it!
@@18Hands Definitely! Too often you see people without proper roots, and it makes a big difference
@@18Hands During the uprising against Qing, many quick and 'effective' methods of training - and styles! - were created. Problem is that you pay for the effectivity in the long run.
This 'square mabu' exercise is fast food of martial arts - quick, but incorrect. Try to perform hand techniques in it, and watch where the energy is being generated.
This is rich... and wrong in so many level
Feel free to share your insight. There are different ways of doing Ma Bu in different styles, but this holds for a lot of northern styles, and considers the body mechanics involved in doing this way well.
That doesn't mean we can't learn from other approaches however.
Terrible form, what are you even doing?
Different styles have different approaches to Ma Bu, perhaps you've been taught another way. This is the way it is most commonly done in Songshan Shaolin, and for the biomechanical reasons explained in the video, plus a few others, my preferred way to teach it. Of course all stances are flexible, and you can adjust them based on your use and even body differences.
@@KungFit Sorry for the ignorant comment then, I was unaware that there was any other way actually. I was always taught one single way with only foot width and angle adjusted to the person. I apologize.
@@sixfingerslinger2671 No problem 🙂 What style do you train?
I think you meant great form! I’ve been studying martial arts for over 2 decades & he is spot on. Might want to do some more homework before you go knocking somebody’s form you clearly know little about. Happy training👍
@@smack9516 Sure thing super-hero super ninja Mack Mr. Know it all like there is one super form. There is not, I was taught different and that his form is wrong. So Nice try on this "I've been doing this 19938304804938 years" Yeah whatever, keep injuring yourself.
You're focusing too much on how not to do rather than how to do and the constant transitions from not to do, to to do, become too difficult to follow. That's piss poor from a teaching perspective.
Apologies that you found it hard to follow. Try giving it another go at 0.75 speed :) This video is based on my experience of teaching people in person over many years; there are very common mistakes that people make even when you tell them the correct thing to do. The way to fix their position is to tell them what they are doing wrong. Since I can't see all of you, than means having to pre-emptively tell you what not to do. Hopefully you can understand why I shot this the way I did