Lets talk about Spearhead!? My first Impressions
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2024
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Like this comment if you think Rob only owns one flannel.
He owns 3. They all the same.
Yes but it's triple reversible.
Incorrect. He has all the flannels in every colour scheme available
You don't need more than the one
As a fellow flannel fan I can say this man's flannel choices are fantastic and diverse.
Flannel on. 🤘
The mentality that everyone has a lunch break long enough or even people at their work who also collect warhammer is wild...to use it as a main selling point just baffles me 😂
I assume their rationale is how to pitch the game to current players not new players. They have historically not had much success getting players to adopt alternate play styles - Boarding Action or whatever that recent 40K one was, etc.
Yeah I imagine James Workshop kicked back in a tufted leather chair, sniffing a fine aged glass of nuln oil, going, 'Surely they all have leisurely, two hour lunch breaks don't they? How else are they going to have time to dine on their catamarans?'
That or GW is so insular that just because they typically have people paying games on lunch breaks they genuinely *don't know* that it doesn't happen at most jobs.
Yeah, as an American who works in a hospital, I'm lucky if I even get to enjoy my 30 minute lunch break at all. Although I do, strangely, have a few coworkers that either own and play Warhammer or are at least interested in it.
I think my future boss will say no if I asked for a lunch break long enough, and a table to play spearhead on😂
Its "lunch brake" in the sense that they are playtesting and not in the desk
Its not that unconventional thing to do
EXACTLY! The first selling point should be: two spearhead boxes can battle against each other. The end.
Underneath that it should be 'it's a great quick and easy way to battle your friends even across a lunch break.'
Isnt everyone getting too hung up on 'lunch break' - i think the point is it's quicker and easier to get through than full scale aos or 40k
Yes it's incredible, I would have thought most people would be like huh an hour for a game and not care about the lunchbreak part it's weird to get fixater on that. The way I see it it will most likely be 90 mins so I can get a game in after the kids have gone to bed.
Most real view of Spearhead I've heard so far, much appreciated. I will say from my perspective, I often don't get the time to play a full game of AoS. A game with deep playability and variance that I could 'Knock out in a lunchbreak (which really is just like 1hr playtime)' is a major appeal to me personally. I'm looking forward to giving it a go myself.
As a Warcry player, I'm really intrigued by Spearhead. A single Spearhead can provide a warband for Warcry too, and both games being able to share boards and terrain creates opportunity to do some cool stuff. Like you can do a mini one shot campaign where you start with a Warcry warband and then switch to Spearhead, all while fighting over the same board, maybe with a branch path that adds a Twist based on who won/lost last game (like determining attacker/defender or changing a terrain feature). Playing a 3-4 match tournament for Spearhead is cool too, but the meta is going to get solved quick and I don't see GW giving it much support besides more Spearheads and battlepacks. So the fixed precon aspect will end up being detrimental to it on a competitive level unless battlepacks can shake things up enough. At least Spearhead makes me a bit more likely to try AoS.
Yes! As im just gettin back in to warhammer after 15 years I have to point out the gradually growing your army potential. I have a plan to start with warcry, expand to spearhead and then all the way to the main aos games. I think its kinda good system in that regard
Equally waddling towards this from the Warcry angle. Super exciting :)
I did think the "game over lunch" was reflective of it being the only time they could get anyone not in the rules writing team to playtest for them.
Overall I'm enthused, the pick up a box and play is such a great pitch.
As someone who has only just got back into the hobby after 20 years, I've been focusing on the painting side of things because the barrier to entry on the gaming side seems huge. 2000 points is a lot to aim for, list construction is so daunting when you don't know the rules. I like the point about it being more like a boardgame, makes it feel more accessible as a starting point that you can then iterate up to various points once you've found your feet and get into wargaming proper.
I'm hoping to pick up a seraphon box because of the amazing minis (that I'd be buying to paint anyway) and have it as my foot in the door of the gaming side of things.
Also had the idea of an event where you draw a random army at the start of the day. Putting the emphasis on skill and adaptability rather than list writing.
“I’m gonna eat my lunch.” Leave it to Rob to speak for me again.
In my office there’s a run on the 1 microwave and you gotta get in there before someone microwaves fish. There should be a special circle of hell for people who microwave fish in an office.
I love when they put brand new minis in a dark area back to front. Super immersive!!
We have a number of players eager to play AoS, but don't have the cash to build straight into a 2K army. So at my store, I'm planning on running a spearhead league to get folks interested and to help expose them to all the various factions etc. Once the Spearhead league is over, we can spin it off into an escalation league to turn those spearheads into a full 2k army.
Wish I had a guy like you running spearhead in local shop also. Lets see if I can find someone to play with in a small town 😂
Agreed two starter boxes is the best pitch. That’s what my friends have been getting excited about.
I think both pitches work - the lunch pitch for me in taking as, 'this is a game you can play in about an hour' - which is a huge draw for me (if accurate). The starter box approach is also huge, because list building is very intimidating
Thankfully. List building is much much simpler this edition you'll catch on quick
I suppose after a few games and experience, it is very possible to play within an hour
Thanks for the lowdown! I look forward to trying out some spearhead, building those parts of my armies first before moving onto larger battles!
Ive never had a job where playing a game on a tabletop during lunch was practical or feasible.
I usually try to empty my brain on my lunch break. Thank you for the thoughtful insights to spearhead. It definitely makes it more tempting to pick up some new armies for sure.
RIP Oscar can't believe they let Ron get away with that
We played the S2D vs GSG table. The chap running it was really good. Felt like the knights on that sized board were absolutely bonkers.
Rob is the tip of the spear, if you get my drift.
Not the shaft?
Just the tip
I have literally never wanted to play a wargame in my lunch break
Magic the gathering, yes. Underworlds, yes! But a whole game of Warhammer? Even if it's been designed to be fast and quick, That's not going to be relaxing!
a potential pitch might be a tournament in an evening? 4 players get together with some beers, quick 3 game round robin, takes 3-4 hours, maybe a final, 5 hours total?
You can tell they have no idea how to market to the US audience because we don’t get lunch breaks.
Yeah the old pitch is weird but I will say spearhead is 100% the best avenue for getting people into age of sigmar. Instead of worrying about having 1000 points or more of units AND learning the rules, the army of near 500 points and army rules are already picked out. So from there it's learning the core rules.
If both players are familiar with AoS I can easily see spearhead being a 1.5 hour game on average. One thing a friend of mine wants is a faster game format that doesn't take 3+ hours to do. Looks like spearhead is right up his ally and I can easily enjoy it too!
This is the best understandable explanation of Spearhead I’ve heard so far, thanks. I wonder if two Kill Team boards would be better.
I was expecting two kill team boards, like combat patrol. I hope they do a multiplayer variant in white dwarf that’ll use two boards / half table, like they did recent for combat patrol
Thanks rob, been looking forward to hearing first thoughts on spearhead. Sounds decent enough for me to play whilst i build up my first 2k army.
Id says that's certainly true
This is the kind of content that you excel at Rob; independent & insightful! I worry that other content creators that were personally invited to attend a demo are being a bit too gracious in their Spearhead takes so far.
Spearhead feels a bit too much like an "on-ramp to new/existing players starting new AoS armies & field test a new BT/CA card system for us" than anything that will be supported for long term independent play.
Reusing their interior playtesting pitch of playing over [time] on their casual lunches & reusing the too small WarCry boards also stands out.
They’re trying to break into the lunchtime board game market but forgetting they are not a board game.
‘You can play this over lunch’
I’ve had a corporate lunch at GW HQ a few years ago, I’d prefer a game of Spearhead above that experience tbh
Otherwise: lol
I get thirty minutes for my lunch, minus five minutes each side to actually make it to the break area.
Any chance they can make an even streamlinerer version?
Speartip maybe?
Yes, just the tip please.
Good vid, nice review. Quick games are a good thing occasionally.
The survivorship bias fable is that when the air force were looking at where to armour planes they examined planes that had returned for where the bullet holes were, and they were on the wings and on the mid fuselage. The initial assumption was that these areas should be armoured, until someone pointed out that the reason for these planes returning is that if a plane is hit in the tailfins or in the cockpit, then it doesn't return, so they added armour to the tail and under the cockpit and engines...
Confirmation bias is where people assign more weight to data that confirms the working hypothesis and devalues data that opposes the working hypothesis.
The size of the board was my biggest concern. I've played "box vs box" AOS games on a Combat Patrol board (2x Spearhead) and that felt ideal, TBH.
That's a good idea
Are all the objectives always active for spearhead? I like how in Shatterpoint the active objectives change for each round. Adds to the variety.
I can see the lunch hour pitch being aimed at younger players in high school or college. This is the type of game I’d play over my high school lunch hour especially in the winter. Also good for after school too
But Rob, for parents of younglings, play à little spearhead after they go to bed is freaking priceless. Let say I don't often have the time to run à 2k matched play as often as I want
I agree with that!! That's not lunch though and I'm glad its a format
I’m most excited about this as the board size means you can play it on an average sized table at home.
Thanks Rob, 30yr Warhammer gamer here with too many kids and not enough time, that was thinking this might be the answer after all the hype. Now know probably not
Dad to dad; Warcry is my friend ;)
I've been playing opr for a while but I'm gonna listen to U man.
Probably is the answer from what others who've played in better circumstances have said, see hammer, two+ tough and aos coach
Also had 7pm demo and saw honest wargamer there but did not know who he was until I got home enjoying the content and now subscribed to the channel, I also only got two turns in the hour but as I have never played more than 2 games of warcry as a beginner I found it a nice enjoyable pace and would expect the game to run for about 2 hours. it would take me a little while longer to understand all the rules, I can also see this being a nice stepping stone to playing aos 4th edition and can see me picking up a couple of spearhead boxes to play in the future
Really would be better to just market it as a faster way to play aos. Sometimes its hard to justify going to the store ifyou dont have 3-4 hours to play a full match. Getting a game in 45 minutes sounds much bettwr
Honest Rob honest review
Two starter armies against each other, that’s how bolt action was sold to me n got me into it over 10 years ago, glad they are finally catching up
I am curious if you feel that playing Spearhead translates well into AOS, like will tactics carry over? If someone were completely inexperienced playing warhammer, played a decent amount of spearhead theyvwould feel comfortable playing AOS?
Genuinely excited for Spearhead! Already picked up the StD and Seraphon boxes as those will be armies I eventually start in future editions. It seems to me Combat Patrol was the testing grounds for Spearhead considering Spearhead actually has its own rulebook too. 40k doesnt necessarily need a quick game mode to interest new players or players new to a faction as thats their bread and butter and majority of their profits. Spearhead looks more thought out and fleshed out to encourage new players to AoS. I think 4th edition will see a huge boom in the community and player base all across their games even Warcry and Underworlds however long those are still around.
Thank you again for the awesome videos! I personally love the idea of spearhead as a dad with limited time. Based on your limited experience do you think you could “home brew” the board size and still keep the integrity of what spearhead is supposed to be in tact? If so, what board size would you say is the sweet spot?
The amazing potato fact at the beginning 😂 brilliant!!
So good!
I'm really hopeful for the format. My ideal competitive experience is one which has next to no list building at all and can be played many times in a single day in order to test out tactics or get to a single undefeated player in a single day tournament.
I love building lists for aesthetics, but i dont enjoy the "production meta" so having a single box that i can paint and play all edition is glorious. I just hope its good enough to convince people to play it
I'm interested in Spearhead, mainly because I think it's a good format to play with my kids. Less units, they don't really enjoy the list building part (for now), they like to move minis, throw dice, and tell a story, and blow their dad to smithereens. We actually played something that looked like spearhead, on a half table (double spearhead), so I won't hesitate to tweak the game to suit our needs. It still look like it's a good starting point for something bigger one day. And to play with "grown-ups", well, I'm looking forward to the new edition.
My gf is a massive boardgame nerd, but Warhammer proper is just too daunting. Spearhead feeling like boardgame sounds perfect for me to get her excited to play AoS a bit.
Have you considered warcry?
@@andanjv I've played it, but I didn't love it. With Spearhead I have all the models already anyway.
Thank you for the honest review.
Second, maybe third, time listening to this episode and I've got a couple new thoughts on Spearhead (mostly marketing). GW could also be pushing Spearhead as a viable way for veteran gamers to get a taste of a new army without buying all the way up to 2000 points and an army book, much the way they pitched Kill Team 2018. Second thought, much less grandiose, is that Spearhead should be two boards, not one, to give at least some room to maneuver.
Great work !
Super helpful, thanks Rob! It does sound like it wouldn't be broken if I just doubled the board size by slapping down two Warcry boards & some objective templates 🤞. Definitely interested to play around with this :)
They’ve done exactly what we learn in day one in a job in marketing. Don’t use a survey of 1 !! If you work for GW it’s great for a lunch break but most won’t have the option.
On Saturday my son got to play a full game. 4 Battle Rounds. He was Nurgle vs Sylvaneth player. Took them about 1.5 hours. He was skeptical at first but said he really had fun. Some of his units didn’t drop until round 3, which balanced the armies and allowed him to capture objectives.
The 45 minute game of Warhammer has been a thing for years with GW. I would rather play one or two games on a evening than rush over lunch. That being said I used to play bloodbowl 7s at school many moons ago.
Thank you for the review. It does sound like it’s exactly what I expected which is great. I help run a lot of learn to play days and leagues and making people learn most the core rules and not worrying about a full 2000 point game sounds great to me. The game system with just the single box investment is amazing. Great job on their part. I’m so ready for this edition.
Same! Who the hell wants to play this game over a lunch break? Most people here in the states get a 1/2 hour lunch, so what is that? like 10 minutes of gaming after you factor in setting up and putting away the minis? Ugh. "Ain't nobody got no time for dat!"
The spearhead format would be 1million times better with alternating movement where each player takes a turn moving units.
small table, short play time, quick to play, frenetic action, sounds like a casual players dream, and there's more casual players than anyone else, saying that as a casual I don't want to try and play a game on my lunch, but I do want a fast game I could potentially play a couple of games of in an evening vs one game of something larger
Hi Rob. Appreciate the rundown. Quick question. From your experience, do you think spearhead would function on a bigger board? Does it need to be a little bigger, or do you think the double-warcry-board size like combat patrol would be better?
Agree, no one is playing in my area over lunch break
So I've been pitching some friends who don't play wargames on spearhead and the unanimous first question is "does it still take several hours?"
So i think that's why they are stressing the lunch thing, even though I agree it sounds really stupid.
The GW US Open event was also this past weekend, which is where the AoS core team was at (running the AOS 4 demo tables). There was a big Spearhead Tournament at that event as well.
I only had a chance to play the 4 demo, and it was fun. But they said things were left out specifically to keep it moving quickly. Will say that in my play, Stormcast just wrecked the Skaven.
Hoping to see spearhead events in my area, really like the ideas behind it! Not shocked that games run over an hour, I wonder if you could comfortably have 5 rounds in a 1 day event?
My take is that they are using the lunch break as a relatable way to convey the game can be played in around an hour. I'm not sure they are actually expecting people to play on their lunch breaks. But it's still a crap pitch. It simply won't work out like that IRL. I also agree with Rob that this game will never be played in under an hour unless you absolutely smash through everything to do without pause to talk to your opponent, or have any kind of fun. I've played games of Warcry that went for 3 hours, because we we arsing about and having fun. That should be the pitch. A FUN way to spend a couple of hours with your mates, while playing a cool game.
I just got the flying dwarf and flesh eater boxes for this.
Nice!!
I appreciate your comment about board game vs wargame. AoS 3 has always felt more like a board game to me. Use your pieces, manage your resources, score your points.
I wanted to come to this... but cos the tickets were free, they were "Sold Out", clearly people had snatched them up with no intention of actually going. :(
The pitch shows they are out of touch, ( a wider society issue as well ) I have a 30 min dinner break ( Lunch ) that just isn't long enough for almost anything. UK employment law says we can have one 20 min break once we have worked over 6 hours so I am getting more than the law requires but still no where near enough to play Warhammer.
Still I am excited to try spearhead as a quicker version because me and my casual friends can take up to 6 hours for an AoS game, some of it due to ourselves but we are never alone ( kids ).
A board game with cards like underworlds? That's a true positive in my book. Cant wait to try it.
I was really hoping Rob would list all 300 types of potato like Bubba in Forest Gump.
Roast potatoes, mash potatoes....
Can you make your own forces in spearhead or is it locked to what you get in the spearhead/vanguard boxes?
Great run down. Shoutout to the GW starter for ‘yes yes’
Sounds like a good on-ramp. I learned with path to glory and it was a bit much to start with
You went upstairs to get your name? What name did they give you?
In our demo game we had skaven jezails fire into combat which was fun. Was that a tthing from previous AoS editions?
It is
I like that it’s more like a Boardgame. Sounds like a nice low stakes format and I see how it replaces the rarely used open play.
Love hearing to positive feedback Rob! What's your thoughts on Ogors keeping impact mortals as a battle trait?
Yeah keen on that
The two half of the card mechanic is very similar to Gloomhaven, which is massively engaging. Sounds positive.
I get 30 minutes for lunch on a 8 hour shift, I ain't playing crap on my lunch break. Some berk in marketing is diamon hard for this notion people are dragging carry cases into work to play spearhead in the break room.
I played in Dallas. I liked it at first, but after thinking about it for a day or two, I don’t think I’ll play Spearhead in the future unless I’m starting a new army.
I like the idea of spearhead. I will slowly build my new skaven army.
I'm glad
OSCAR "ratz" my friend!!! we miss you here!!! ;D;D;D T_T, Nice vid Rob, looking forward to playing Spearhead, it seems very cool! Greetings from Peru!!
Love to Peru
Who are these people that are packing their minis to work, hope that a co-worker does the same, setting up, playing and tidying up even a minis-based board game in an hour or less? Is anyone outside of GW-workers able to do that?
Highly doubt
So have we confirmed Vanguard boxes are mostly the same as Spearhead? Can I go get a Orruk Warclans one right now, paint it, and use it for Spearhead when 4e drops?
Here is a point of view for the rules loade and need to know every core rule, army stat and twist deck.
You don't need to know every card or stat of an army to play a game,
You only need that knowledge to min-max win the game.
What I mean is you can always learn twist cards on the go. Just pop a card, read, and make decision based on that. You can even get surprised while playing, like expirience the gaming, not make set of prepared decisions.
That makes it slow though which is fine.
Really appreciate the video, I was on board with AoS4 but the more I hear the less certain I am about it, spearhead was probably the bit I was most interested in after rules info that has come out. The small board issue and the slower playing game honestly sound like an issue for me. Also while I can look at the launch box and see it as a solid well rounded product I am not excited for it, the minis are solid, but not exciting and the box price is right on the tipping point for me. Not sure if it is other games have me excited or I am just not feeling AoS 4, if this was a starter box I would pick it up maybe down the line, the whole launch box thing makes it feel a bit like a yes/no decision
Do you think this would be a good way to “try out” how the army would play at a larger scale? I can see it struggling if you need to know before you walk in the faction rules or if the smaller scale would obscure some details. Love the show and stay square bassed.
Rob, in the new rules for an infantry unit, when it says control 1, is it still one control point per model on the objective or is it just one control point for the whole unit?
One per model
@@TheHonestWargamerthanks!!
How would you say compares to combat patrol?
Brilliant video! Amazing job 👏 Nice to see some coverage that feels very honest. Had a feeling that this 1 hour thing is bullshit
Absolutely stunning: 300 different types of potato!!
Coming from warcry I think it sounds like a good stepping stone for me as I’m just way over daunted by prospect of 2000pts and mega rules of AOS and 40k. Thanks for honest review.
Rob is analytical, articulate and intelligent. I can see how he hated GW upper management 😂
yes spearhead is fun (then GW changes all the boxes and give you less each time)
I need tip of buying magnet case for warhammer minis
The lunchbreak concept seems flawed, unless you're playing nurgle & don't mind getting mayo on the minis.
Greasy minis? Gross
Will you be able to use Age of Sigmar figures? I mean all the figures i already have? Or i will need to buy everything again?
You can use them if they are the ones in a spearhead
Well, Spearhead certainly doesn't use 40k or LotR models, if that's what you're asking, lol. The game literally uses exactly the models shown in the Spearhead, formerly Vanguard, boxes; nothing more, nothing less.
So i will be able to download the cards? GW wiill probably sell new books to use each faction on Spearhead?
Can’t they sell it like it’s fun to play. Also maybe something I can walk over to the club right after work and play a game of without the clock striking midnight.
They should
Do you think it would work out well with two boards; i.e. 44" x 30"?
Exactly what I was thinking. If you have units that can move as far as those prosecutors it would be a better experience?
Problem is that the objectives are printed on the boards and, no doubt, the cards are keyed to the objectives on the board. As Rob said, the objectives are actually “named”. So a card probably says something like “Score 2 VP if you control The Sinking Springs at the end of this turn”.
I won’t be playing it in my lunch time as I only get 30m mins lol. I am looking g forward to Spearhead. I think it will get me into playing AoS
What were the Spearhead S2D rules/ warscrolls like?