How to change a high driver in a powered speaker (Alto TS310/TS312/TS315)
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- Опубликовано: 29 июл 2021
- Watch as Jay from J. Eagle Audio walks you through changing the tweeter/high driver/compression driver in a powered speaker. The particular speaker we are working on in this video is an Alto TS312.
Thanks for your video. I have two TS 312's with blown drivers,. You've given me hope .
Me too, exactly same, did I fix problem?
Best video. Thank you. $78 repair. Awesome
When unscrewing the unit (anti-clockwise in case there is any confusion) try using a thin steel screwdriver in between the vanes of the heatsink as you grip it and it should come loose. Use work gloves.
Can you use a different horn driver on an alto 315 speaker replacement? Also can you replace diaphragm and fi the problem?
Does this need heat sync paste like seen on other videos? I saw a replacement on a ts215 but not sure if it's needed because the 315 hf horn is better..
this is very cool learning. this is vey helful . I subcribed you one . thank you J.Eagle Audio
Thanks for the sub!
Have you ever changed the volume button? I barely turn the knob and it sounds like I put it in full volume.
Can you do a video repairing a broken off volume control knob please?
Thanks a lot
Is the TS415 have the same compression driver type?
So u turn to the right to get the driver off?
Hola hubieras dejado.el.enlace para poder comprarlo
👍👍👍
Hey guys, recently bought a TS310, on the first day, the speaker blew up, fuse gone and electrical panel damaged, still waiting for a response from Alto support, thanks for the review
I'd have sent it back wherever you bought it and request an exchange.
For 60 bucks why didn't you upgrade the driver? You have just replaced it with the same stock HF driver? Makes no sense? If it fits celestion speakers sound great for the money which I use in all my builds.
Could you add the link?
Which way do you turn the tweeter to loosen, left or right? I am having a hell of a time getting it loose.
Exactly… because normally it’s lefty loosey but on the video he’s turning to the right
Left
Left. It's a major fail on his part that he showed his hand turning right and didn't film him removing the tweeter when it's the hardest bit!
Having hard time pulling of the driver …. Any help ? I’d tried everything, with gloves, with a screw driver,bare hands … I’m piss off … frustrated
Hi, I have a pair of ALTO TS 315 speakers. I have noticed that several owners break the tweeters. Given that the data that the ALTO provides are bogus, there is no 300 watt rms tweeter - 700 watt max). I thought of protecting the tweeters either with a PTC or a 24 volt bulb or both (PTC + bulb) like some Klipsch systems. But I would like to know what values to use both in amperes of the PTC and in watts of the bulb. A friend of mine repairer of PA systems told me that the problem is not in the tweeter but in the amplifier section of the high HF: they are small amps.
power that distort almost immediately.
I do not know the Thiele & Small parameters of the tweeter because I have not found a datasheet and therefore I will have to measure them with the DATS V2. Then I will have to inject a 2.5 Khz sine wave signal (this is the crossover cut) at 2.83 volts amplitude (it would be 0dB), at the input of the speaker, connect a dummy 8 Ohm load and a digital oscilloscope where I can see the waveform when the crest cut starts (square wave formation) and see the value in Vrms and an ammeter to see how many amps are passing through at that moment.
Later with the calculation of the formula I will know how many real watts in rms the amplifier section of the module takes out. I believe this procedure is correct. who can tell me more?
I’m having the same problem with a Headrush FRFR112 which happens to be the same speaker. The tweeter is still working but distorts the high notes. Before replacing it, I would like to know if the crossover is functioning properly. Have you had an answer to your question yet?
@@FernandoRodriguez-uo2fk You're right!!! The Headrush FRFR112 are identical to the Alto TS 315 !!! I didn't know these Headrush FRFR112 before.
The problem of burning this tweeter can be due to 3 cases:
1 - the distortion of the amplifier which is of low power compared to the tweeter
2 - too high power of the amplifier
3 - the poor quality tweeter.
1- assuming that any amplifier sooner or later goes into distortion, but an amplifier (which in relation to the tweeter is not very powerful) when it goes into distortion begins to form a square wave (which is deadly for tweeters) when still the tweeter would resist in power. Ultimately, even a 20 watt distortion signal (formed by the cut of the crests of the sine wave and therefore a square wave) would burn a 200w tweeter. Because that part of the crest, from a sinusoidal peak, to a square segment, is a DC signal in that period.
2 - vice versa too high power of the amplifier with respect to the tweeter would overheat the membrane coil and send everything up in smoke
3- a poor tweeter by itself is of low quality and this speaks volumes.
Solution to the problem.
1 send to the speakers a signal from the mixer up to 0dB on the Vu meter, therefore already in input without distortion
2- adjust the treble correctly
3 - adjust the speaker volume without clipping.
theoretically nothing should happen in this way.
to avoid accidental input signals phenomena with too many high pitches or over +3 dB or microphone feedback phenomena and therefore risk breaking the tweeter, 3 protection systems can be introduced:
1 - the least efficient: a fuse whose amps must be calibrated with reference to the power of the tweeter. After its intervention and burn it must be replaced.
2 - the PTC Polyfuse (it is a resettable thermistor fuse in which when cold it has 0 ohm resistance; as soon as it is crossed by a current of which it has the limit (e.g. 2 Ampere), it intervenes by increasing its internal resistance in a high way, such as to disconnect the passage of current to the tweeter. When the signal then decreases, it cools and self-restores itself. There is no need to replace it but during the whole period of its intervention until it cools down, the tweeter does not sound at all. Obviously it is better of the simple fuse.
3 - the bulb: usually 24 volt 21 watt or 55 w bulbs are used depending on the power of the tweeter.
the behavior of the bulb is as follows: from cold it has a resistance of 0 ohm, as it is crossed by the current it starts to light up, flash and proportionally increases the internal resistance. Therefore a part of the energy destined for the tweeter is absorbed by the bulb. Obviously in case of clipping or overpower not everything goes to the tweeter but also to the bulb, which protects the tweeter from burning. Unlike the polyfuse, the bulb already begins to subtract energy from the first steps of an initial current. So at a certain power you notice that the tweeter sounds less, as if the treble adjustment levels had been lowered.
Instead with the polyfuse (eg from 2 Ampere) up to 1.9 Ampere the energy passes all to the tweeter then when it reaches 2 Ampere it stops.
In the light bulb instead already from 0.8 A you can see that it starts flashing then perhaps when it reaches 2 Ampere of current, it has the maximum flare, but the Tweeter sounds less.
Some speakers (such as a Klipscht model) have both the bulb and the polyfuse in the crossover for greater tweeter retention.
This is because the polyfuse protects the tweeter from the burn peak but not from overheating due to long high-power work sessions, while the suitably calibrated bulb does.
example: we have an x watt tweeter that breaks when a current of 4A reaches it, obviously a 3.5 -3.7 Ampere Polyfuse max would be mounted so that it intervenes before breaking. But remember that the Poyfuse up to the threshold of 3.5-3.7 amps sends all the signal integrally to the tweeter; which means that a constant 3.4 amps signal would reach it for hours and cause it to overheat in the long run (but not burn the tweeter coil) (that's why some tweeters work, but crack).
The bulb instead from 0 to 4 Ampere in which it burns out, already at 0.7 A begins to absorb up to the point that around 2 At half power it absorbs it from the tweeter: there is less sound on the tweeter, but less overheating on its coil and therefore longer life.
¡¡¡Tienes razón!!! ¡Los Headrush FRFR112 son idénticos al Alto TS 315! No conocía estos Headrush FRFR112 antes.
El problema de quemar este tweeter puede deberse a 3 casos:
1 - la distorsión del amplificador que es de baja potencia en comparación con el tweeter
2 - potencia demasiado alta del amplificador
3 - el tweeter de mala calidad.
1- asumiendo que cualquier amplificador tarde o temprano entra en distorsión, pero un amplificador (que en relación con el tweeter no es muy potente) cuando entra en distorsión comienza a formar una onda cuadrada (que es mortal para los tweeters) cuando está quieto el tweeter resistiría en el poder. En última instancia, incluso una señal de distorsión de 20 vatios (formada por el corte de las crestas de la onda sinusoidal y, por lo tanto, una onda cuadrada) quemaría un tweeter de 200 vatios. Porque esa parte de la cresta, desde un pico sinusoidal hasta un segmento cuadrado, es una señal de CC en ese período.
2 - viceversa, una potencia demasiado alta del amplificador con respecto al tweeter sobrecalentaría la bobina de la membrana y haría que todo se convirtiera en humo
3- un tweeter pobre en sí mismo es de baja calidad y esto dice mucho.
Solución al problema.
1 envíe a los altavoces una señal desde el mezclador hasta 0dB en el medidor de Vu, por lo que ya ingresa sin distorsión
2- ajusta los agudos correctamente
3 - ajusta el volumen del altavoz sin saturación.
en teoría, nada debería suceder de esta manera.
Para evitar fenómenos de señales de entrada accidentales con demasiados tonos altos o más de +3 dB o fenómenos de retroalimentación del micrófono y, por lo tanto, se corre el riesgo de romper el tweeter, se pueden introducir 3 sistemas de protección:
1 - el menos eficiente: un fusible cuyos amperios deben calibrarse con referencia a la potencia del tweeter. Después de su intervención y quemadura debe ser reemplazada.
2 - el PTC Polyfuse (es un fusible de termistor reseteable en el que en frío tiene una resistencia de 0 ohmios; en cuanto es atravesado por una corriente de la que tiene el límite (por ejemplo, 2 amperios), interviene aumentando su resistencia interna de manera alta, como para desconectar el paso de corriente al tweeter. Cuando la señal disminuye, se enfría y se auto-restaura. No es necesario reemplazarlo, pero durante todo el período de su intervención hasta que se enfríe. , el tweeter no suena nada, obviamente es mejor que el simple fusible.
3 - la bombilla: normalmente se utilizan bombillas de 24 voltios 21 vatios o 55 w dependiendo de la potencia del tweeter.
el comportamiento de la bombilla es el siguiente: de frío tiene una resistencia de 0 ohmios, al ser atravesado por la corriente comienza a encenderse, parpadear y aumenta proporcionalmente la resistencia interna, por lo que una parte de la energía destinada al tweeter es absorbido por la bombilla. Obviamente, en caso de recorte o sobrecarga, no todo va al tweeter sino también a la bombilla, que protege al tweeter de quemarse. A diferencia del polifusible, la bombilla ya comienza a restar energía de los primeros pasos de una corriente inicial. Entonces, a cierta potencia, nota que el tweeter suena menos, como si los niveles de ajuste de agudos se hubieran reducido.
Por otro lado, con el polifusible (por ejemplo, de 2 amperios) hasta 1,9 amperios, toda la energía pasa al tweeter, luego, cuando llega a 2 amperios, se detiene.
En la bombilla, en cambio, ya de 0,8 A, puede ver que comienza a parpadear y, tal vez, cuando alcanza los 2 amperios de corriente, tiene el destello máximo, pero el tweeter suena menos.
Algunos altavoces (como el modelo Klipscht) tienen la bombilla y el fusible múltiple en el crossover para una mayor retención del tweeter.
Esto se debe a que el polyfuse protege el tweeter del pico de combustión, pero no del sobrecalentamiento debido a largas sesiones de trabajo de alta potencia, mientras que la bombilla debidamente calibrada lo hace.
ejemplo: tenemos un tweeter de x vatios que se rompe cuando llega una corriente de 4A, obviamente se montaría un Polyfuse max de 3.5 -3.7 Ampere para que intervenga antes de romperse. Pero recuerde que el Poyfuse hasta el umbral de 3.5-3.7 amperios envía toda la señal por completo al tweeter; lo que significa que una señal constante de 3.4 amperios la alcanzaría durante horas y provocaría un sobrecalentamiento a largo plazo (pero no quemaría la bobina del tweeter) (es por eso que algunos tweeters funcionan, pero se agrietan).
La bombilla en lugar de 0 a 4 amperios en el que se quema, ya a 0,7 A comienza a absorber hasta el punto de que alrededor de 2 a la mitad de potencia lo absorbe del tweeter: hay menos sonido en el tweeter, pero menos sobrecalentamiento en su bobina y por lo tanto una vida más larga.
I want to specify that the data in Amperes of the fuse, Polyfuse and bulbs are just examples to make the subject understood, but that they do not have a technical reference for perfect calibration and adjustment. Depending on the power of the tweeter, it is necessary to find the correct value in Ampere whether it is a fuse, a polyfuse or a light bulb. Of course I am aware that 24 volt 21 or 55 watt bulbs are used in high power tweeters, while 12 volt 12w to 55 watt bulbs are used in medium and low power tweeters.
Quiero precisar que los datos en Amperios del fusible, Polyfuse y bombillas son solo ejemplos para hacer entender el tema, pero que no tienen una referencia técnica para una perfecta calibración y ajuste. Dependiendo de la potencia del tweeter, es necesario encontrar el valor correcto en amperios, ya sea un fusible, un polifusible o una bombilla. Por supuesto, soy consciente de que las bombillas de 24 voltios, 21 o 55 vatios se utilizan en los tweeters de alta potencia, mientras que las bombillas de 12 voltios, de 12 a 55 vatios se utilizan en los tweeters de media y baja potencia.
@@FernandoRodriguez-uo2fk as regards the replacement of a tweeter with a compatible one, several parameters must be observed:
1 - Physical. That is, it can be mounted on the same chassis
2 - Electric: mandatory same impedance, same power, possibly same frequency response and Thiele & Small parameters should be measured "in jargon it is said to be weighted".
The passalto crossover cutoff frequency is 2.5Khz, theoretically it should have the impedance of about 7.5 - 8.5 ohms at that frequency. Otherwise, holes would be created in the frequency response in reference to the woofer and the frequency response of the speaker must be as linear as possible over the whole band. As you well know, each tweeter has its own parameters Thiele & Small; and even if the loudspeaker manufacturers give an indicative value of 8 ohms 4 ohms over the whole frequency response band of the tweeter (or woofer or midrange); in reality this is not the case.
If you measure the Thiele & Small parameters you will see that at the Fs (Resonance frequency) of the speaker there is the maximum impedance which could be even several tens of ohms; to then decrease as you go towards the center of the loudspeaker frequency response; until you have the fateful 8 ohms. Then towards the high part of the frequency response the impedance values start to rise again and in the case of the tweeter (for a design reason) they do not rise as high as the Fs, but can even reach 16 ohms. This happens because the law of physics says that in an alternating electrical signal the impedance varies as the frequency varies. In fact, some manufacturers of Hi-End loudspeakers equip the tweeter high pass crossover with an additional RC filter (called Zobel cell) which consists of a capacitor + resistor (connected together in series) but the RC network is connected in parallel to the tweeter. Its purpose is to homogeneously align the impedance at 8 ohms (if the tweeter is 8 ohms) from its crossover cut-off frequency up to its end of the band (eg 15 Khz). Bringing the same impedance to the same value on all frequencies (theoretically ideal but impossible) would mean that the dynamics of the cabinet would be identical on all frequencies and therefore a response over the entire frequency band of the flat and linear cabinet: therefore acoustically perfect: The manufacturers of studio monitor speakers are based on this principle, where every little sound detail must be heard by the engineer without any enhancement or attenuation from one frequency to the other, typical of speakers with a different acoustic concept.
Ultimately, fitting a tweeter that presents (in Thiele & Small reading) an impedance between 7.5 and 8.5 ohms, for example at 5Khz, is not correct because from 2.5Khz up to 5Khz it will have different impedances with different dynamics therefore a sound hole (i.e. a lack of dynamics in that slice of frequencies; therefore the crossover should be revised again, which in an active speaker is very complicated compared to a passive speaker in which you adjust coils and consensors to the right value. (to 8 ohms is always the ideal crossover cut point of any speaker to be connected with an amplifier of the same impedance)
En cuanto a la sustitución de un tweeter por uno compatible, se deben observar varios parámetros:
1 - Físico. Es decir, se puede montar en el mismo chasis.
2 - Eléctrico: la misma impedancia obligatoria, la misma potencia, posiblemente la misma respuesta de frecuencia y los parámetros de Thiele & Small deben medirse "en la jerga se dice que están ponderados".
La frecuencia de corte de paso a paso es de 2,5 kHz, teóricamente debería tener una impedancia de aproximadamente 7,5 a 8,5 ohmios a esa frecuencia. De lo contrario, se crearían agujeros en la respuesta de frecuencia en referencia al woofer y la respuesta de frecuencia del altavoz debe ser lo más lineal posible en toda la banda. Como bien sabes, cada tweeter tiene sus propios parámetros Thiele & Small; e incluso si los fabricantes de altavoces dan un valor indicativo de 8 ohmios 4 ohmios en toda la banda de respuesta de frecuencia del tweeter (o woofer o rango medio); En realidad, este no es el caso.
Si mide los parámetros de Thiele & Small, verá que en la Fs (frecuencia de resonancia) del altavoz hay una impedancia máxima que podría ser incluso de varias decenas de ohmios; para luego disminuir a medida que avanza hacia el centro de la respuesta de frecuencia del altavoz; hasta tener los fatídicos 8 ohmios. Luego, hacia la parte alta de la respuesta de frecuencia, los valores de impedancia comienzan a subir nuevamente y en el caso del tweeter (por una razón de diseño) no suben tan alto como las F, pero pueden incluso alcanzar los 16 ohmios. Esto sucede porque la ley de la física dice que en una señal eléctrica alterna la impedancia varía a medida que varía la frecuencia. De hecho, algunos fabricantes de altavoces Hi-End equipan el crossover de paso alto del tweeter con un filtro RC adicional (llamado celda Zobel) que consta de un condensador + resistencia (conectados en serie) pero la red RC está conectada en paralelo al tweeter. . Su propósito es alinear homogéneamente la impedancia a 8 ohmios (si el tweeter es de 8 ohmios) desde su frecuencia de corte de cruce hasta el final de la banda (por ejemplo, 15 Khz). Llevar la misma impedancia al mismo valor en todas las frecuencias (teóricamente ideal pero imposible) significaría que la dinámica del gabinete sería idéntica en todas las frecuencias y, por lo tanto, una respuesta en toda la banda de frecuencia del gabinete plano y lineal: por lo tanto acústicamente perfecto : Los fabricantes de altavoces monitores de estudio se basan en este principio, donde el ingeniero debe escuchar cada pequeño detalle sonoro sin ninguna mejora o atenuación de una frecuencia a otra, típico de los altavoces con un concepto acústico diferente.
En definitiva, colocar un tweeter que presente (en lectura Thiele & Small) una impedancia entre 7.5 y 8.5 ohmios, por ejemplo a 5Khz, no es correcto porque desde 2.5Khz hasta 5Khz tendrá diferentes impedancias con diferente dinámica por lo tanto un agujero de sonido ( es decir, una falta de dinámica en ese segmento de frecuencias; por lo tanto, el crossover debe revisarse nuevamente, lo que en un altavoz activo es muy complicado en comparación con un altavoz pasivo en el que se ajustan bobinas y consensores al valor correcto (a 8 ohmios siempre es el punto de corte de cruce ideal de cualquier altavoz que se conecte con un amplificador de la misma impedancia)
First of all, I really appreciate the time and effort you put in your comments! Thank you very much! I use the FRFR112 (TS312) to play my electric guitar with a Line 6 Helix floor multi effects pedalboard. Ive never used the volume of the amplifier at more than 50% playing with the band moreover never used it more than 3 hours straight. I think that by design it shouldn’t had been abused using it like that. I’m worried to think this might be a flaw in the design or poor quality in the materials chosen.
I ran a test with my function generator to check when the tweeter driver “distorts” the sound. Running a sweep from 80hz to 22kHz, I got that the issue happens between 11,4Khz to 12,3Khz, 14,8Khz to 15Khz, 15,6Khz to 16,7Khz and 20,5 KHz to 21Khz. Same test on my studio monitors (Mackie 6inch) runs well not hearing any distortion or buzz at any of the given frequencies.
I don’t find the data sheet for this driver and it measures 4ohms with the multimeter. I don’t find anything like it to replace so I will try to find a technician who can take it apart and solve whichever problem it has, but before that I have to find a solution for the long term, so I will study the options you gave me. For the time being I will also apply a cut to all frequencies above 11Khz, which shouldn’t bother too much for the guitar.
Where you buy the tweeter sir?
Full compass
thanks bro, came here because I couldn't get the tweeter to unscrew, answer = more torque...
Did U turn to the right or left ?
Yes I had issues losing it also and I had to tap it with a smaller plastic hammer from the inside. It will loose eventually
@@toludada_live left. I put a small screwdriver in between the heat sink fins to get leverage. It's easy this way. 👍
The most important thing you don’t explain !! How to turn around the tweeter ! I’m having a hell of a time trying to take off .
Hi diver watege ?
Question here please. Can I replace that tweeter with a more expensive one or lets say same brand alto but newer model which obviously are made better
That is an excellent question. I wish I had an answer!
You can but especially in the 15 and to some degree the 12 you are restricted by the space available as the hole on the horn flare is directly below the sloping area under the top handle