I was there… young medic at Jbad when this happened. Naturally everyone on board died instantly on impact, but the video does not mention that when it crashed the plane crashed into a guard tower on the edge of the fob. We were able to get to those guys (2 ANA soldiers) but they would end up succumbing to their injuries later that morning also. That’s a night that lives with me forever.
Irrespective of the limited vision due to the NVGs, a full and free check is essential to every flight. I once arrived at the departure point and was asked by ATC to expedite departure due to inbound traffic, entering the runway I attempted the full and free check only to discover I had no pedal movement; a mechanic had positioned a screwdriver between the pedals as a control lock and forgotten to remove it. I was operating the 20 seat twin turbo-prop single crew. Had I not had that 'final items' check in mind I wouldn't be writing this now.
A lesson learned. Thanks for mentioning it. There's a reason fundamental procedures like the preflight checklist exists. And yet, some things are occasionally dismissed or simply forgotten. Hence the reason I keep an orderly array of laminated checklists in my bag. And yet it's often the simplest of things that go unchecked and unnoticed...until it's too late. For example, not recognizing all flight controls were NOT free and clear and functioning properly is hard to fathom. And yet, I once left a gust lock in place and didn't notice it until just before takeoff when, thankfully, I performed a flight controls check again which gave me the chills. I was a flight instructor at the time and often used prior examples, including my own, as a means of keeping students awake so to speak. >:}
Aviation Maintenance 101...account for ALL your freaking tools before and after every job!!! Completely inexcusable. Sorry for the rant...it's my 30 yrs of being in USAF maintenance coming back out.
@@175hydro Quite right.. What added to my displeasure was on my return the idiot was quickly into the cockpit accusing me of going off with his screwdriver ! I asked him to bend over as I wanted to return it to him.
@@jamesgraham6122 Doesn't matter if Micky F'n Mouse ran off with the screwdriver. HE...and HE alone is responsible for ensuring all tools are accounted for upon completion of a task. And if I heard him try to push his responsibilities off like that...on top of losing a tool!!! Dear God in heaven we're having a come to Jesus moment. Glad everything worked out for you and those onboard. Take care
Thank you for covering this. My husband was stationed with the 317th AMXS at Dyess and had worked on this plane, amongst others from 2006-2014. His transition back to a civilian was somewhat difficult, and this accident made it much worse. Even when we found out what had happened, it still bothered him. RIP to all that were involved in the crash. 💜
@Kelly Purtell I’ve got the same knot in the pit of my stomach sort of feeling that I’m presuming your husband does, Kelly. We’ve most likely been in many of the same places. It’s a large sort of family… but not too large. When we lose people we don’t ever really lose that hurt. To both of you, be well & God bless.
I grew up with and played ice hockey with one of the loadmasters on the aircraft, SSgt Ryan Hammond. He joined the USAF after high school, and after talking to him while he was on leave, all I could think about was the Air Force and joined within a year. Ryan was the type of person who left an impression on everyone he met and his passing crushed an entire community, but I know God called upon Ryan to accompany him in His kingdom. RIP brother
That’s dope. I was in tech school with the other load. I was a crew chief though and the load was my buddies dorm chief in BMT. This case needs more eyes
As a C-130H2 guy who retired in 2009 I can’t see how this could even happen. It’s to the point of impossible, but the fog of war and lots of young new pilots….. I would have to assume they were tired and inexperienced. Very sad crash.
@@rnsteve2265 They were wearing the NVG's..... which restrict peripheral vision...much like swim goggles. Damnable how this game of flying seeks out the narrowest of cracks to bring the forces of nature to bear!
@@beer1for2break3fast4 Ok, but why wouldn't they take off the nvg in order to see the inside of the aircraft? Seems like they would take them off for better vision in the cockpit after the first stall.
Ok, the night goggles reduced their peripheral vision but how on earth doesn't a trained pilot see that his control yoke is pulled towards him? Also, a take off without a control surfaces check.. really?
It happens.. when you are a routine pro and become an expert in something, you tend to neglect some small things. But in flights... There is not many second chances..
They just forgot. They went out to help load cargo and simply forgot to remove the goggles. Also, preflight checklists and checking controls however mundane are essential. I understand they were loading while engines were running in order to remain on schedule, but even so a quick check of controls etc would’ve reminded them of the goggles.
Thomaras; I’m with you on this one. I was a traveling crew chief on C-130 out of Dyess AFB Texas. Then after my active duty I stayed in the AF Reserves as a flight engineer on C-130s. I was also a multi engine commercial pilot while I was in the Air Force. I don’t buy this version of why this aircraft went down at all.
I don't know any pilot, that would not exercise their controls during taxi for t/o. This boggles my mind, BUT....it's happened before. Kelly AFB, TX back in the 80's or early 90's. It was a contract C-130 passing through Kelly. Up elevators for cargo entry. But, they figured it out just as it became airborne, rolled left, but still hit the ground, all perished. In their case, the control lock was on, not an NVG case. Basically same scenario. Sad, just sad.
They "think" that may have been what did Dale Snort Snodgrass in with his Siai Marchetti with the gust locks. There's no warning on the Marchetti that they're engaged, but you would definitely notice it IF you checked your control surfaces before taxi and TO. Or it could have been the seat lock??? Either way, super high time pilot perishes in his own plane. RIP.
@@tabby73 A biz jet did something similar near to me a few years ago, had the yoke pinned, because they were just doing a quick turnaround they didn't check the controls, went to pull back and couldn't climb and hit the trees.
If you think this was horrifying for the pilots imagine what it was like for the loadmaster and passengers onboard., who had no clue about what was going on
@@AlaskaErik Hey Eric... I was just thinking about the times I chartered C130's from Mark Air to deliver heavy equipment to the North Slope. Is Mark Air still around? I loved accompanying the charters I was responsible for up to those villages.
As a pilot, this makes no sense on so many levels. Control surface movement pre-flight checks? Yoke in completely un-natural rear position? Noticed restriction on forward yoke movement when recovery attempted? There is more to this than they are telling us...
Dindt they sense the yoke position, when they sit on their seats? If the yoke was mechanically blocked on an elevator up position, won't you see it abnormal when you sit on your seat prior to take off?
@@plmn93 Often there is foul play in order to kill people. It could be that they were simply tired and their head was not working well, but often it's murder.
I remember freaking out when I heard the tail number, cause I knew the crew chief of that plane personally. The whole wing had an all call at the base theater and they read out the names. As fortunate as it was to not hear a fellow maintainer not be called out, it was a tragic loss for everyone. I remember one of the loads had flown on my plane right before this deployment. Life is too short. RIP to this crew
"He placed a hard-shell night vision goggle (NVG) case in front of the yoke to hold the elevator in a raised position." Terrible way to extinguish good lives... I'm not a pilot, but I'd never put something around the gas pedal in my car; how could this happen.
ok let's say your car was elevated but you had to keep the back wheels going. So you step on the gas. But your foot gets tired so you put a brick on the pedal, Because It is nighttime, you cannot see the brick and have forgotten about it. When your car is lowered you shoot off into the distance and smash into a tree. This is pretty much what happen in context of a car
Have you ever pumped gas and used the handle block to pump gas without holding the handle? Same principle here. It doesn't say what he was doing but if the doing a Engine Running Load/unload it's because they were in a hurry. He may have been doing other tasks while they were loading and couldn't do both at the same time.
This is not the first time something has restricted movement of the yoke (control column) in flight. Improper use of gust locks were placed at the rudder pedestal base with a clamp and pin that swung down to secure the control column. It was missed on the pre flight inspection, with the same results. Come on flight crews, always cycle those flight controls on each and every flight before take off!
@@Islaputingbato You would notice when you sit in the seat and feel the yoke closer to you, like in a car if someone adjusts the steering wheel and lowers it. Even if they don't tell you you know it as soon as you sit down.
This is what happens when you remove the Flight Engineer from the equation. One of the primary responsibilities of the Engineer is to mitigate risk and aid in nonstandard situations.
I have always said that both civil and military pilots should be selected from people with engineering qualifications or a great deal of experience. All too often, pilots do not have a clear mental image of what is ACTUALLY happening when they operate the controls.
I have a friend who was saved by an FE while landing at CYYT. Had he not pushed the throttles all the way up (over torqueing all 4 engines) they would have landed short of the runway, and possible hit the hillside. That was when he was stationed with the 50th AS.
@@georgemontgomery8720 it’s common to have a third pilot on the J when conducting certain tactical missions, like aerial delivery. I asked a squadron commander from Delaware how they conducted AD missions and that was her reply.
I was a flight engineer on C130s, after 4 years of being a flying crew chief on C130s. I totally agree with you on this one. I believe if the Air Florida 737 that crashed into the Potomac River in DC would have had a flight engineer they would have probably not crashed. He would have shoved the throttles to the stops and they would have had enough power to keep flying.
I live in Jacksonville, Arkansas, USA… just outside Little Rock Air Force Base. Where basically everyone in the world who has trained to fly the C-130 since the Vietnam era has spent a good deal of time learning, flying and working. When the J model Hercules began to be phased into the fleet, the new model brought with it a wealth of electronic upgrades along with several new systems & a LOT more capability. The new 6 prop hub design & its distinctive buzzzzzzz sound is likely the first to be noticed, but inside the J model is quite different. The C-130 had for decades retained many of the original systems that had become pretty primitive in comparison with other aircraft. Stepping into a J model for the first time, with its glass cockpit, it feels vastly different. I remember hearing of this mishap at J-bad, and the investigation that later found that a pelican case was believed to have been stowed forward of the yoke in order to provide a little additional clearance for cargo loading. That IS something that the crews often do, and they’ll use any manner of things to hold the yoke to the rear. Helmets, clip boards, you name it. However, this left a lot of us scratching our heads. We’re all human & humans do make mistakes no matter how much we do to prevent them. This for some reason just didn’t seem to fit in our minds. Just as every control input is logged by the data recorder, multiple electronic systems on board the J model Herc monitor all of the control positions & control inputs in real time. Along with all manner of parameters. Was there NO instrumentation of ‘an issue’ prior to take off? With the pelican (or other type/brand of hard shell) case BLOCKING the pilots’ view of a significant portion of the flight instruments, was there a warning the flight crew simply could not see? I’m not up to date on the J model Hercules, and my knowledge is limited to prior models. However there are many things I’ve come to know about the latest operational C-130s. This flight crew, as well as the other personnel on board have my absolute respect & appreciation. Their families & all those they leave behind have my sympathies and prayers. I do NOT intend to criticize the crew or their actions at all, nor do I wish to criticize the investigation or those involved in it. It’s only that so many of us have been left mystified by this entire incident. From what we believe we know… this should not have even been possible. IF that case was placed forward of the control yoke in order to hold it to the rear and aid with loading clearances during the ERO - the aircraft knew it. If that case remained forward of the control yoke as the aircraft taxied and then began its takeoff roll - the aircraft knew it. And IF the electronics on board the aircraft knew the yoke was held aft, the electronics would also know the trim characteristics would be incompatible with take off & controlled flight. The aircraft KNEW, but did it, or could it, inform the crew of this? SOMEthing HAS to be missing from this story. Perhaps there’s more information that I simply don’t have access to, and if there is then I can certainly be mistaken… and I remain open to that possibility. The USAF, along with every nation who flies the Hercules, moved quickly to change their training doctrine in an effort to prevent this, or a similar incident, from EVER happening again. For that I am thankful. I apologize for this being so long, but this mishap hit pretty close to home for me & for many of us. Im not comparing our concerns with those of anyone who lost their loved ones - not in the least. There is no comparison to be made. This has and will continue to eat at me until there’s something more to learn. There’s got to be something more. Thanks to ‘The Flight Channel’ for putting all this together for everyone. They do a fantastic job compiling SO much information into these wonderful videos! I’ve likely seen every single one of them, and I always love when I learn a new one is available. Well done, TFC. 👏🏼
Everyone who has ever flown does flight control checks before takeoff. Even after engine start as a pilot we check the rotating surfaces think all control surfaces. You made a long statement about the aircraft knowing this or that but this is basic airmanship. I appreciate your comments but I don't think any of them have any context. Before I flew I was a C-130 engine mechanic and understand the operation quite well. No disrespect intended. And rest in peace to the crew
@@503challenger I appreciate that. But I don’t know that our two viewpoints are all that disparate actually. Of course - all pilots do control surface checks prior to a flight. The potential consequences alone ‘should’ preclude ANY pilot from forgetting that. They ‘should’. Very nearly everything I’ve read on this mishap, from very early on, including the ARB report, took a fairly steep lean into attaching blame to the flight crew. Now obviously that may or may not be entirely appropriate and deserved. I wasn’t & am not suggesting that it isn’t. The view I tried to take, and admittedly it may have been a stumbling attempt at expressing it, was that of looking at the aircraft in particular & specifically. Because aside from what the flight crew did or didn’t do (not disregarding that but rather only setting it aside for a moment) the aircraft has a particular chain of events all its own. What it will do & what it won’t do. Like I said, my knowledge base precedes the J model. While I’ve come to understand some of what is in the J model cockpit, both retained and new, I only know a little (at best) of what is there today. But from what I do know & what I’ve been told by recent active duty maintainers is that there would have to be a series of errors and warnings/alarms prior to even leaving the ramp. Nobody I’ve spoken with can figure out how that aircraft ever got off the ground. Even supposing it had as much negative elevator trim as possible prior to rolling, it would’ve been trying to stand on its tail as soon as it gathered speed. Even if I were to concede that EVERYthing the flight crew did on that night was absolutely & entirely wrong… that aircraft has enough sensor capability & logic capability built in to it to prevent them from having done these wrong things. I just wanted to look at the aircraft for a moment. Not the crew. Everyone’s looked at the crew. For a moment we should look at the aircraft. Really did appreciate your thoughts. Be well. 👍🏼
@Old Street Doc: There's a couple of flight crews out of LRAFB I'd like to talk with. I live in Clarksville, Ar. A few years ago I was traveling east on I-40 headed to a Doctor's appointment in Little Rock. Several miles west of Conway I saw four C-130 J's headed south in the distance. Two broke away, circled back, then flew directly over I-40 headed west at approx 400ft coming straight at us. I could even see em in my rear view mirrors long after they passed. They looked liked the Super Spooky C-130 Gunships I saw in Vietnam coming in for a strafing run. Dozens of cars were actually pulling off the freeway it was that spooky. USAF Veteran
I see the phase the aircraft knew this or that, an aircraft doesn’t know anything that is what the crew is there for absolutely too much faith is put into systems that have no intelligence when they fail they help and warn the pilot but they don’t fly the plane no matter what the capability is ultimately that is the pilots job
I personally am still wondering about the earlier bird strike. You put this whole story together, & now none of the other comments are resorting back to that earlier bird strike. We know the C-130 initially took off, returned & was checked & cleared. Something about this is a missing link to a puzzle.
Surely an experienced pilot would immediately notice they weren't getting the normal full travel on the yoke when they pushed forward on it to lower the nose, which would remind them that the case was in the way? I'm sure it all happened fast, but still...
As a former 39th FE and now professional pilot, this accident was hard to watch. A control check should always be done before entering the runway. To many civilians have died recently due to lack of one. Fly safe people!
Small visual reminders or cues can often be employed in many aspects of life to prevent all kinds of dangers. For example, I live alone in an apartment, and it's easy to have the stove top or oven on and get distracted with a knock on the door, and leaving it unattended could cause a fire. Every time I use the stove, I just place a bright handkerchief on my doorknob, something visual to remind me not to leave without shutting the stove off. The post-it idea is similar, and might have worked; or he could have just placed a jacket over the whole yoke as a reminder. Put something in the path as a visual reminder. - j q t -
I was at Jalalabad Afghanistan deployed from January thru October 2015. We were suppose to leave that night on the C130 but ended up getting pushed to the right a few days later. Well late in the evening we were all smoking cigars and drinking near beers while we watched the C130 take off and it was like out of a movie except it was real. We couldn't believe what happened. We assumed it was hit by IDF. We immediately ran to get all kitted up assume the enemy was going to take advantage and at the same time rounds were popping off at the time we thought it was enemy fire but it was rounds that cooked off that were on board the plane. I was blown up in April 2015 I expected that but not this especially when a whole company was suppose to be on board to BAF.
The co-pilot must have had a funny feeling on taxi when his hand position most certainly didn't feel right, or when he could only see half his hsi. There may have been a moment after they passed into the unrecoverable stage where he remembered the case, at that point it's probably better if he didn't though.
I wish my dad was a live to get his thoughts on this. Rarely did he swear but I can't imagine a word he'd use on this that wasn't a swear word. He may have suggested that the people in the cockpit and their instructors should have been shot as a safety measure. And no, I'm not going to refer to them as pilots, they don't deserve it. Failed pilots, perhaps. If you only do one thing before take off, you check the flight controls for FULL AND FREE MOVEMENT - do airline pilots not do this ?
@@millomweb I have to agree with you with this one, Not shot thou but re-trained into something like Security Forces ( MPs Military Police for the Air Force ) or scrambling eggs in the Kitchen. I cant find any excuse for there actions.
It's very sad Indeed but unfortunately there is no room for carelessness in aviation. I hate to sound mean. I respect the lives loss but it sure would have been a much worse tragedy if the pilot continued being wildly careless and made it to commercial aviation and pulled a similar stunt in a large commercial plane leaving JFK or similar
Exactly of someone moved my steering wheel in my car 1 notch forward or backward I would notice in an instant. I honestly don't think that it happened like that. Surely any pilot would notice the yoke 8 inches closer way before he even left the ground. I am calling bullshit
@@millomweb Your attitude is arrogant and distasteful. You never made a dumb mistake, regretted it, and puzzled how you could have overlooked or misinterpreted something with lousy consequences? Well the consequences for these guys were they lost their lives. It's called human error - and every human however great, is capable of it! A dose of humility would make you a better quality person.
My daughters friend Kacey Ruiz was on that flight, Kacey and my daughter went to security forces training in San Antonio, May Airmen Kacey Ruiz Rest In Peace.
This one is tough to fathom. NVGs or not, I don't see how they couldn't be aware of the presence of the case blocking the yoke travel. When the co-pilot pushed his yoke forward to arrest the climb, did it move without resistance to a nose down orientation while the pilot's yoke remained wedged in the climb position and, if it did, why did the plane respond only to the position of the pilot's controls? If the co-pilot couldn't push his yoke forward, wouldn't he sense and say immediately "I can't push the controls forward!" instead of becoming fixated on solving a non-existent trim failure? Why were they wearing NVGs before they got in their seats anyway? If they hadn't been, there would have been ample time and conditions for them to see the case. I guess fatigue and thoughtless routines make you do strange things. I don't chalk this one up to stupidity...it's more like "They did what and didn't notice what!?" RIP to all the innocent victims of one of the most bizarre plane crash scenarios I've ever heard.
The pilot, and copilot yokes are interconnected with fixed interconnect tube they are not independent. The co-pilot had not been in the presence when pilot placed NVG case in front of yoke he was not even aware, so his first thought would be failure when he was the one in charge of piloting the 130 out of Jahalabad. This happened alot quicker than the video portrays after being airborne.
@@cy0031 actually, you horrible little goblin, you will find they were both male. Captain Jordan B. Pierson (28), pilot, and Captain Jonathan J. Golden (33), the co-pilot.
I haven't stopped crying since this video played. A dear friend of mine was on that plane. I'm sad for the loss of his life and everyone else that was on that plane. Thank you for this video and thank you to the brave men and women who put their lives on the line for us!!!!
Any time I've flown, it was part of the run-up to check that the controls are free and that the control surfaces move... even on a Piper Warrior or C152. Why wasn't this in the run-up for a C130?
It was, and they did it before they departed for Jbad. The ERO checklist didn't have them re-accomplish a flight control check after they had landed because the plane had just flown...the flight controls are obviously working fine and were free and correct. The ERO is done with the Engines Running, and typically the pilots don't leave their seats. It is meant to be used for a quick stop to get in and then out. However, there were clearly a lot of non-standards going on during this mission. Also, I can not tell you how cumbersome and situational awareness-draining those NVGs are...they were infuriating to wear and I often felt they were more dangerous than whatever outside threat may have existed. Anyways, it became an AMC-wide procedure to check flight controls after an ERO. I was in UPT with the pilot of this aircraft. Good dude. Sharp. Just goes to show how quickly things can go wrong.
A problem possibly created by the pilot/copilot getting away with an abbreviated pre takeoff checklist run. This happens all too often, and not just with aircraft.
Charles Mills I spent over 7 years on C-130s. My first four years as a traveling assistant crew chief for about 6 months then the rest as a traveling crew chief. I was always, except for a couple times when there was a VIP on board, in the cockpit for take off. Then over 3 years in the Air Force Reserves as a flight engineer. I don’t ever recall any part of the checklist being skipped. Even after an ERO there was at least two checklist, the Before Taxi and the Before Takeoff checklist. One of the items in the Before Takeoff checklist is, “Flight Controls.”
Don’t they check for free controls during preflight? Wouldn’t the co pilot have noticed the yoke way closer to his body during taxi? I get the fact that they couldn’t see the case in low light conditions. I’m asking as a low time private pilot.
I think that's why there's the emphasis on the engine running ground operations bit.. they never shut off the engines, so it's all "one big flight", kinda. Why they wouldn't just do a simple check of the flight controls while taxiing, or notice the yoke position being weird at all though, I have no clue..
This may have been over 6 years ago, but these were great people on this Aircraft that made one mistake that cost them everything. I understand everyone having an opinion, but some of the words I'm reading are completely heartless. I was there, I was in one of the Loadmaster's rooms using his Playstation with a group of guys to unwind when this happened. The flight control check wasn't part of the Engine Running Offload/Onload checklist until after this incident (because of this incident). Four of these six Airmen were my direct co-workers and friends and I just ask that everyone have a little more respect and compassion for them and their memory. No arguments wanted, just love for them.
This really takes me back to Bagram. Hanging out at the Tillman Lodge right next the flight line drinking coffee after coffee, the thunderous roar of F-15s taking off... heading over to the PAX building for roll call, all eyes are on the contractor reading out your last four... 0459.. here! Then you'd grab your gear and walk over to the bird, up the ramp and into the belly of the C130, she's been waiting just for you. The sound of the props gives me goosebumps as they rev up, it is as if they're whispering to me... you can feel safe now because we know your secret. This is my ride to JBad, where another bird will be waiting for me, taking me to the outpost somewhere in that valley, somewhere in this war.
I feel sad for the people who lost their lives in this tragic incidence. May all of them Rest In Peace. I cannot help asking this question: could you tell me honestly what exactly were you fighting for in Afghanistan? And would you need F15s to fight against Taliban who often didn’t have sandals on their feet?
Yes, this is why there should always be a standard operating procedure along with taking off your night vision and surveying your surroundings before moving forward. Look before you leap, but with no disrespect to those people who have died as a consequence of these actions.
there are a million things to check preflight, you can say the same about traffic, monitoring engines, take-off configuration, on top of that they were in the combat zone with additional things to worry about. Its unfortunate, but sometimes people skip or forget a step to save time or extra worry
Its amazing how many of these accidents are down to pilot / co pilot error rather than mechanical failure. Great video as always but such a terrible accident that should never of happened. RIP to all crew and passengers
So, a good portion of cockpit probably destroyed on impact. So how did the authorities concluded , that a NVG box caused this crash ? Since the pilots didnt know that they kept a box there... No scope of getting it on voice recorder. How ?
Why would you ever trim an airplane for a run away pitch control problem? We were Instrcted in the C5 to turn off the automation and manually push the yoke fwd and hand fly the airplane......AMC had specific guidance for this after the Alaska crash....... Ugh just sad
YGBSM! I'm just a Private Pilot, but why didn't this crew perform a "Controls Free and Clear" check before leaving parking? It's "Pilot 101" and should be rote. Nickels in the grass for the crew and passengers. Hard learned lesson paid in blood here. Very sad.
I guess with the C-130-J, the flight engineer and the navigator are no longer used. I'll bet a flight engineer would have reminded the A/C about that case.
Not necessarily. A bad FE can compound an already bad situation. Watch The Flight Channel video on the C-130 that crashed just after take off in Georgia a few years ago.
Did they actually find that pelican case wedged up against the yoke when they sifted thru the debris??? I mean absolutely no disrespect to the pilot, but I just find that almost impossible to believe.
I am not commenting to critique. Using non-standard remedies to difficult situations can readily contribute to outcomes such as this. The bane of anyone who works to ensure safety are shortcuts, complacency, and bewilderment when a non-standard practice results in an unexpected outcome. I've experienced this myself. Missing a step then being surprised by the unexpected slows or stops the ability to correct the situation which can lead to an undesired outcome. It's especially tragic when this leads to a loss of life.
This is the saddest military aircraft accident, that I have ever heard about. It's hard to believe, that something like this is even possible, when there's such a comprehensive, preflight,checklist.May all these dedicated men,rest in peace..
I don't understand how one or the other of the flight crew didn't click that the case was still there when they started suffering from flying control issues, and surely they would have been able to feel that the control yokes were not in their normal positions before even taking off? Some major complacency here, starting with the decision to physically block a flying control in a non standard way, the loadmasters even have a small amount of culpability by not reporting that they no longer required the elevators to be up after unloading.
The pilots killed themselves. I find it inconceivable that two well trained pilots did not notice the aft position of the control yokes nor did they perform a freedom of controls check prior to taking the active runway. As a professional pilot , this infuriates me.
16 hour days, with non-stop changes in mission and taskings, as well as the threat environment of small arms fire up to ir guided manpads combined with some of the most challenging airfields and terrain a c130 crew will ever face leads to crews doing what they need to do to stop for a minute and fucking eat, and coordinate their next legs. For a "professional" pilot, you sure have a lot to learn about crm and how to analyze an error chain before speaking up so knowingly about a mishap that you think you would have expertly avoided had it been you at the controls. But you weren't. Its insane to think so callously and narrow minded about any mishap in aviation for a true, "professional" of the trade. We learn from these out of respect for the lives lost, and refrain from stating childish shit like you said here. Anyone with more than a handful of years in aviation, or who has ever really taken in any lessons from reading an AIB report, knows this. Your attitude/tone leaves little doubt as to your level of proficiency as an aviator to me. Your likeliness to encounter some form of incident is probably higher than average as well. I hope that never happens but if it does, I hope it's when you're mature enough to handle it, because I doubt you are right now.
A tad harsh, perhaps, but I fully understand. I was a helicopter pilot in the Canadian Armed Forces for many years, with most of my time on the CH136 Kiowa (OH-58A). I went to too many funerals for guys who died due to similar small oversights and other things that would ordinarily have been trivial. I had my own share of close calls, some of which were completely outside of my control and some which were not. It's a very thin line between life and death, "Man, we were lucky", and "Oh, fu..." Watching this was hard, especially knowing the cause and the outcome and what was going through their minds. It brought up perhaps a little too many memories of the wrong kind. I did not know them, but, as soon as I post this, I shall face east and drink to their honour, and to that of my own ghosts.
@Bones McGillicuddy I did say "a tad harsh", but, having read a bunch of other comments from people who have no comprehension of the environment and conditions under which these guys were operating yet have to beak off from the comfort of wherever they are I have changed my assessment.
It breaks my heart to see this happen! This is not the first time something has restricted movement of the yoke (control column) in flight. Improper use of gust locks were placed at the rudder pedestal base with a clamp and pin that swung down to secure the control column. It was missed on the pre flight inspection, with the same results. Carrier was Southern Air Transport on an L382G - civilian stretch C-130 with -7 Allyson motors. Come on flight crews, always cycle those flight controls on each and every flight before take off without fail!
In 5398.5 hours as a C-130 loadmaster I've never heard of pulling back on the yoke for cargo to clear the elevators, and I've moved plenty of high profile cargo. With the yoke pulled back you've still got the rest of the horizontal stab and the beaver tail in place, so I have no idea what pulling back the yoke does to help cargo clear. Were these rookie loads? But this is the first time I've heard what the cause of this accident was. Unfortunate and unbelievable. Our unit deployed to Afghanistan in 2006 and I've flown lots of missions into J-bad, so I always wondered what happened to this plane ever since the crash.
I agree. I had to ask my Stan-Eval load about this technique. He told me it was valid for some cargo and explained that he had had to do it a few times while he was deployed with this very unit and Little Rock as well. Apparently, a few planes sustained damage when cargo contacted the elevators. I don’t know what kind of cargo that could have been though.
@@Kalaninumberone I'm still failing to see where any cargo would ever make contact with the elevators in the neutral position. There is simply no way. They sit higher than the opening of the aircraft and are certainly not close enough to ever be in the way of cargo being on/off loaded. As I said earlier, I've dealt with a lot of high profile cargo and have never seen this as an issue. If it was, it would have been covered during training and emphasized at home station.
I don't understand how this could happen. Isn't there a pre-taxi/pre-takeoff checklist where flight controls are actuated to verify they all work? Not familiar with USAF procedures but in commercial operations this is always performed and would have detected this problem. It's also why any time a system like flight controls is blocked for any reason there's a log book squawk initiated that has to be cleared.
(a year later, but still worth a reply) I'm a 130J loadmaster, I've been in the 39th and deployed with the unit. We didn't talk about this accident super often, but when we did eventually we would get to how this mishap affected changes in the air force policies for learning points for everyone in the room, old and new. One of the Changes that came of this was in the ERO checklist to add a step for a flight control check. I can say there are plenty of times down range where a crew can feel rushed if they are behind their "fragged" timeline and wants to rush out of somewhere to get back on frag. But I can honestly say that of the hundreds of ERO's we did we never missed that step, and we never did not run the full checklist. I've been to some of this crew's headstones in Arlington while we were stopped there on a mission. The tone was about as somber as it could've been, despite none of having actually known the individuals on Torque 62, we had all seen their faces in the pictures in the squadron, we've read their names a thousand times on our patch wall for those who have left the squadron. We may not have known them personally, but they were family to us. Side note, if your situational awareness is not on point in an environment like that it is very easy to miss something like a case behind the controls. It will hit the object behind the yoke in the same way that it would the forward most input control on the yoke. the only difference you'd really notice is that your arm didn't extend as much as it normally would.
@@kirilmihaylov1934 Every name of every life lost during this 20 year period as well as all lives lost on Sept. 11 2001 must presented to Biden on a plaque titled Tyranny run amok.. Legacy of Failure.
Having flown commercial 45 years it's a good idea to check control movement during taxiing. All commercial airlines have this item in the...' before takeoff '...check list.
WTF - I am no pilot and hate flying as passenger. But I know that there is one thing every pilot does before she is taxiing into take off position and that is a check for the normal and unimpeded functioning of all control surfaces of the plane. Part of this check is done by first pulling the stick all the way back and then pushing it all the way forward. EVERY pilot does this before every take off. How where these aces trained? Either they failed to perform this most basic of all checks or they simply didn't know how a full forward stick movement felt. The explanation with the NVG case blocking the forward movement of the stick and this not being noticed is so outrageous that I suspect that there was in reality another reason for this crash. If this was really the reason for the crash these pilots were either not trained at all or on heavy drugs or absolutely dead tired and so exhausted that they should not have been in a cockpit.
There is no requirement to check flight controls before departure?!?! Are you fucking joking. Also HOW IN THE FUCK DO YOU NOT NOTICE YOUR COLUMN IS BLOCKED?!?!?!
I was in Kandahar when this happened; RIP Airmen and Contractors. Those USAF cargo crews, especially C130s, fly tons of hours in hostile conditions. Between getting woken up all hours of the night due to rocket and mortar attacks, to sketchy sleeping conditions, those crews get tired……so sad.
Thank you for reconstructing the crash of this C-130. A relative of mine died in that crash. I never knew what exactly happened. The USAF never divulged the true cause of the crash to family members. I always thought the plane was overloaded or improperly loaded. The plane was in fact perfectly airworthy and everybody on board died for nothing. Pilot error is too benign of a term. This was utter stupidity.
Interesting. Part of USMC KC-130 NATOPS per-takeoff check list is to test flight controls. The check call is "Flight Controls". Response is "Free and easy on top" (referring to elevator and ailerons), and "Free and easy on the bottom" (referring to the rudder). That check alone would have let the NVG case loose.
Whenever I see ANY crash involving the military there are PHOTOS of the pilot and co-pilot I'm assuming to personalize what went wrong or not wrong even. But this didn't start with photos of them in uniform and this alone would make me go "I think one or both of them made some major screw ups." Barring any mechanical issue from the bird strike. RIP to everyone on board.
I was at Barksdale when a cargo aircraft landed and had a fire on board that killed one crew member. They didn't let the public know there was actually a bomb planted on board by a terrorist that exploded after the plane landed causing the ensuing fire.
when air disasters are so uncommon and youre such a successful youtuber that you run out of commercial crashes and have to resort to obscure military aviation incidents. still very nice dont get me wrong
Think of how many ways this could have been avoided. 1st of all- not putting the case there in the first place. Secondly- remembering that you put the case there and removing it. Thirdly- sitting down and noticing the yoke is out of position. Fourthly- when attempting to level off you notice neither yoke can go forward. Lastly- realizing none of your corrective action is having an impact. Sometimes your own ego is such that the last thing you think about is the possibility you made an error.
In the early 1980s, a Southern Air C130 had a similar accident at Kelly AFB, TX. During the preparation for offloading of cargo, a device designed to position the elevators in an “up” position was in installed by the pilot prior to engine shutdown. Upon engine start up, no one removed the “dog bone “ that was installed to keep the the elevators in the up position. The flight was a night time takeoff flight. They took off, the airplane stalled and crashed between two hangers killing all three crew members on board. I’m surprised that after this accident, it appears that a step on the BEFORE TAKEOFF CHECKLIST to remove an elevator control column lock out device was not added to prevent the crash. I flew as a loadmaster on the C130B models at the 433rd MAW at Kelly AFB and had many times during cargo offloads, requested from the pilots to position the elevators in the up position to prevent damage to the elevators during high pallet offloads. I guess I was lucky that our pilots somehow ensured that the device was removed sometime before take off. RIP to the personnel that lost their lives in this accident.
Outstanding report and automation again, thank you. As a student pilot of private small aircraft, we were taught to perform controls free & correct prior to any T/O. Wouldn’t that be the case here too?
It just breaks my heart, I love these men and women that serve in every branch. I'm thankful for them every day. it's easy to see how a mistake like this could be made. I flew in the C-130 30 to 40 times? and always thought they could muscle their way out of any situation the way we took off.
I knew 2 of the security forces fly away crew that died. I was stationed with them at Hanscom when it happened. They were good people in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I started learning to fly almost from the day I was born (no joke, I come from a whole family of pilots) from my dad, grandad, and two uncles. By the time I was 10 I was tall enough to get full rudder defection and see iver the instrument panel, so they started teaching properly. ALL of them, every single time, would tell me to cycle the controls to verify I had full movement if the stick and pedals before beginning a takeoff roll; even if we had just landed and taxied back for another takeoff. It became an ingrained muscle memory to do It in every aircraft I have ever flown - if it ever feels wrong, then immediately taxi back to the run-up pad and check it again before lining up for another go. My grandad and former Aur Force pilot uncle would even test me on the control check occasionally by applying the control lock when I wasn't looking. Cycling the controls shouldn't be part of a particular aircraft type's pre-takeoff roll checklist, it should be done by every pilot, every time before releasing brakes and opening the throttle.
The trim system on an aircraft does not set an attitude but set a speed which the aircraft maintains with changing attitude. Great video to a very tragic event!
I'm a veteran of 15 years in the Army, including three years in Afghanistan/Iraq. Being Airborne, I spent much time in C-130 aircraft and I could never understand why C-130 pilots ever needed to use blackout conditions and wear NVGs. Try and spot a lit cockpit from the ground. I dare you.
Again a wonderful recreation of an aircraft incident! At first i thought the night vision google case is something similar small like for sunglasses and that they had it put in between the stick and floor so i thought, yeah, you can oversee something like that, but then when i saw the photo, the container was the size of a bloody small suitcase, that blocked half of the instruments. So the pilot apparently didn't even look at his instruments, otherwise he would saw, that half of it is "censored" so to say.
I'm confused. You stated the incident took place in Oct. 2015. However, you said the C-130 "performed it's 1st flight in 2001 and, in 4yrs of service, accumulated..." If the incident took place in 2015 & was only 4yrs old, how was it delivered in 2001?? 🤔🤔
@@met6490 that's what I was thinking. I didn't point out the mistake just to point out a mistake, but if our mistakes are never brought to our attention than we'll never improve on 'em. That was my only motivation in pointing it out is all...it was in no way out've spite or anything like that, just a friendly "hey, might wanna check that out."
@@met6490 oh no that's perfectly fine, maybe I should've worded it differently. Trust me, we're on the same page, s'all good. That's the problem w/texts, often times comment's get misunderstood.
I was there… young medic at Jbad when this happened. Naturally everyone on board died instantly on impact, but the video does not mention that when it crashed the plane crashed into a guard tower on the edge of the fob. We were able to get to those guys (2 ANA soldiers) but they would end up succumbing to their injuries later that morning also. That’s a night that lives with me forever.
Terrible tragedy..Thank you for your service.
No doubt hemi,some events cannot be forgotten unfortunately.
Thank you for your service. I am sure you did your brothers proud.
Thank you for your service
Thankyou for giving us a personal insight of this event! I hope you are doing ok now considering. Greetings from Sweden!
Irrespective of the limited vision due to the NVGs, a full and free check is essential to every flight. I once arrived at the departure point and was asked by ATC to expedite departure due to inbound traffic, entering the runway I attempted the full and free check only to discover I had no pedal movement; a mechanic had positioned a screwdriver between the pedals as a control lock and forgotten to remove it. I was operating the 20 seat twin turbo-prop single crew. Had I not had that 'final items' check in mind I wouldn't be writing this now.
A lesson learned. Thanks for mentioning it. There's a reason fundamental procedures like the preflight checklist exists. And yet, some things are occasionally dismissed or simply forgotten. Hence the reason I keep an orderly array of laminated checklists in my bag. And yet it's often the simplest of things that go unchecked and unnoticed...until it's too late. For example, not recognizing all flight controls were NOT free and clear and functioning properly is hard to fathom. And yet, I once left a gust lock in place and didn't notice it until just before takeoff when, thankfully, I performed a flight controls check again which gave me the chills. I was a flight instructor at the time and often used prior examples, including my own, as a means of keeping students awake so to speak. >:}
Amen
Aviation Maintenance 101...account for ALL your freaking tools before and after every job!!! Completely inexcusable. Sorry for the rant...it's my 30 yrs of being in USAF maintenance coming back out.
@@175hydro Quite right.. What added to my displeasure was on my return the idiot was quickly into the cockpit accusing me of going off with his screwdriver ! I asked him to bend over as I wanted to return it to him.
@@jamesgraham6122 Doesn't matter if Micky F'n Mouse ran off with the screwdriver. HE...and HE alone is responsible for ensuring all tools are accounted for upon completion of a task. And if I heard him try to push his responsibilities off like that...on top of losing a tool!!! Dear God in heaven we're having a come to Jesus moment. Glad everything worked out for you and those onboard. Take care
Thank you for covering this. My husband was stationed with the 317th AMXS at Dyess and had worked on this plane, amongst others from 2006-2014. His transition back to a civilian was somewhat difficult, and this accident made it much worse. Even when we found out what had happened, it still bothered him. RIP to all that were involved in the crash. 💜
wishing you both well
@@hpharridan thank you, same to you
Thank you both for your service. His to our military, and yours to him. You’ve both served well. God bless you and these United States of America 🇺🇸
@Kelly Purtell I’ve got the same knot in the pit of my stomach sort of feeling that I’m presuming your husband does, Kelly. We’ve most likely been in many of the same places. It’s a large sort of family… but not too large. When we lose people we don’t ever really lose that hurt. To both of you, be well & God bless.
@@gh00stie62 I was at SP in 52nd EMS with a Purtell 85-91... any relation?
I grew up with and played ice hockey with one of the loadmasters on the aircraft, SSgt Ryan Hammond. He joined the USAF after high school, and after talking to him while he was on leave, all I could think about was the Air Force and joined within a year. Ryan was the type of person who left an impression on everyone he met and his passing crushed an entire community, but I know God called upon Ryan to accompany him in His kingdom. RIP brother
From WV?
@@hansblitz7770 yes
That’s dope. I was in tech school with the other load. I was a crew chief though and the load was my buddies dorm chief in BMT. This case needs more eyes
As a C-130H2 guy who retired in 2009 I can’t see how this could even happen. It’s to the point of impossible, but the fog of war and lots of young new pilots….. I would have to assume they were tired and inexperienced. Very sad crash.
How did they not see the nvc still there behind the yoke?
@Brandon Darnell Yea, I am not a pilot, but I do have some common sense and it seems as though none was applied in this incident Brandon.
@@rnsteve2265 They were wearing the NVG's..... which restrict peripheral vision...much like swim goggles. Damnable how this game of flying seeks out the narrowest of cracks to bring the forces of nature to bear!
@@rnsteve2265 Pause the video at 14:45
@@beer1for2break3fast4 Ok, but why wouldn't they take off the nvg in order to see the inside of the aircraft? Seems like they would take them off for better vision in the cockpit after the first stall.
Ok, the night goggles reduced their peripheral vision but how on earth doesn't a trained pilot see that his control yoke is pulled towards him? Also, a take off without a control surfaces check.. really?
And how does he not at least remember that he did that once there is a problem with pitch?
It happens.. when you are a routine pro and become an expert in something, you tend to neglect some small things. But in flights... There is not many second chances..
@@uniqueurl Yep, "workplace complacency" a widely known and documented lethal problem among seasoned workers.
They just forgot. They went out to help load cargo and simply forgot to remove the goggles. Also, preflight checklists and checking controls however mundane are essential. I understand they were loading while engines were running in order to remain on schedule, but even so a quick check of controls etc would’ve reminded them of the goggles.
Thomaras; I’m with you on this one. I was a traveling crew chief on C-130 out of Dyess AFB Texas. Then after my active duty I stayed in the AF Reserves as a flight engineer on C-130s. I was also a multi engine commercial pilot while I was in the Air Force. I don’t buy this version of why this aircraft went down at all.
Unfortunately, this is how procedures and handbooks are written, with blood.
RIP.
I don't know whether that's true.
Not checking that your flight controls work properly before take off is the highest class of stupidity.
What a poignant & accurate statement. I hadn’t thought of that angle 😞
Also history😢🥱🥱
I don't know any pilot, that would not exercise their controls during taxi for t/o. This boggles my mind, BUT....it's happened before. Kelly AFB, TX back in the 80's or early 90's. It was a contract C-130 passing through Kelly. Up elevators for cargo entry. But, they figured it out just as it became airborne, rolled left, but still hit the ground, all perished. In their case, the control lock was on, not an NVG case. Basically same scenario. Sad, just sad.
Why is there no warning sound or light when a control is blocked?
They "think" that may have been what did Dale Snort Snodgrass in with his Siai Marchetti with the gust locks. There's no warning on the Marchetti that they're engaged, but you would definitely notice it IF you checked your control surfaces before taxi and TO. Or it could have been the seat lock??? Either way, super high time pilot perishes in his own plane. RIP.
I knew the FE on that crash. Flew w/him in the ANG
@@tabby73 A biz jet did something similar near to me a few years ago, had the yoke pinned, because they were just doing a quick turnaround they didn't check the controls, went to pull back and couldn't climb and hit the trees.
Wouldn’t this problem become known after engaging the Trim for Takeoff button before departure? This normalizes all control surfaces.
If you think this was horrifying for the pilots imagine what it was like for the loadmaster and passengers onboard., who had no clue about what was going on
Load master, heh
Flying a few hundred sorties, they knew they were in deep shit seconds after takeoff.
Seems like nobody, even the pilots, onboard, had a clue as to what was going on. Sad……
Especially the loads, because they're on headset and can hear everything that's going on up front.
@@AlaskaErik Hey Eric... I was just thinking about the times I chartered C130's from Mark Air to deliver heavy equipment to the North Slope. Is Mark Air still around? I loved accompanying the charters I was responsible for up to those villages.
Very nice presentation. That said, neither pilot checking an obvious yoke position that was all the way back is unforgivable.
How that NVG case stayed in place during the flight is the bone of contention here.
As a pilot, this makes no sense on so many levels. Control surface movement pre-flight checks? Yoke in completely un-natural rear position? Noticed restriction on forward yoke movement when recovery attempted? There is more to this than they are telling us...
Ero means they never turned the acft over to mx and the preflight check is not required.
The animation of the C-130 turning onto the numbers with the elevators raised - a good yet ominous detail of what's to come.
I saw it and thought “oh god…”
where?
@@icannotpretend5834 9:59
Dindt they sense the yoke position, when they sit on their seats? If the yoke was mechanically blocked on an elevator up position, won't you see it abnormal when you sit on your seat prior to take off?
That's what I was thinking.
Yeah you would sure think it would be obvious as soon as they put their hands on the yoke.
@@plmn93 Often there is foul play in order to kill people. It could be that they were simply tired and their head was not working well, but often it's murder.
Interestingly there are rumours that this was a fabricated cause of accident
@Haitham Ali Oh don't be silly. By corrupted high officials ofcourse.
I remember freaking out when I heard the tail number, cause I knew the crew chief of that plane personally. The whole wing had an all call at the base theater and they read out the names. As fortunate as it was to not hear a fellow maintainer not be called out, it was a tragic loss for everyone. I remember one of the loads had flown on my plane right before this deployment. Life is too short. RIP to this crew
I worked in the project office of the contractor that assisted the military with cargo ops...that was one helluva day. So tragic and avoidable. RIP.
"He placed a hard-shell night vision goggle (NVG) case in front of the yoke to hold the elevator in a raised position."
Terrible way to extinguish good lives... I'm not a pilot, but I'd never put something around the gas pedal in my car; how could this happen.
ok let's say your car was elevated but you had to keep the back wheels going. So you step on the gas. But your foot gets tired so you put a brick on the pedal, Because It is nighttime, you cannot see the brick and have forgotten about it. When your car is lowered you shoot off into the distance and smash into a tree. This is pretty much what happen in context of a car
Have you ever pumped gas and used the handle block to pump gas without holding the handle? Same principle here. It doesn't say what he was doing but if the doing a Engine Running Load/unload it's because they were in a hurry. He may have been doing other tasks while they were loading and couldn't do both at the same time.
@@jakekeys4028 yeah and also that fact that his hands were probably tired from pulling the yolk
This is not the first time something has restricted movement of the yoke (control column) in flight. Improper use of gust locks were placed at the rudder pedestal base with a clamp and pin that swung down to secure the control column. It was missed on the pre flight inspection, with the same results. Come on flight crews, always cycle those flight controls on each and every flight before take off!
@@jakekeys4028 yes. I always do that in the winter. In 20 years only once did I misjudge the timing and it overflowed onto thr ground
Very strange that the pilots couldn't feel that the yoke was blocked. Surely you have at least one hand on the yoke when you take off?
If there isn't a simple pre-flight check of 'wiggling' all of the control surfaces, there SHOULD be!
@@retro440 there is on fighter jets but bigger planes have two controls per surface so its unlikey
Because the pilot wear the night google right away he didn't notice the yoke is in improper position
@@Islaputingbato You would notice when you sit in the seat and feel the yoke closer to you, like in a car if someone adjusts the steering wheel and lowers it. Even if they don't tell you you know it as soon as you sit down.
@@anthonyxuereb792 ...youd think so, at least
This is what happens when you remove the Flight Engineer from the equation. One of the primary responsibilities of the Engineer is to mitigate risk and aid in nonstandard situations.
I have always said that both civil and military pilots should be selected from people with engineering qualifications or a great deal of experience.
All too often, pilots do not have a clear mental image of what is ACTUALLY happening when they operate the controls.
I have a friend who was saved by an FE while landing at CYYT. Had he not pushed the throttles all the way up (over torqueing all 4 engines) they would have landed short of the runway, and possible hit the hillside. That was when he was stationed with the 50th AS.
Absolutely agree one J would fund careers of an awful lot of engineers or 3rd pilot
@@georgemontgomery8720 it’s common to have a third pilot on the J when conducting certain tactical missions, like aerial delivery. I asked a squadron commander from Delaware how they conducted AD missions and that was her reply.
I was a flight engineer on C130s, after 4 years of being a flying crew chief on C130s. I totally agree with you on this one. I believe if the Air Florida 737 that crashed into the Potomac River in DC would have had a flight engineer they would have probably not crashed. He would have shoved the throttles to the stops and they would have had enough power to keep flying.
I live in Jacksonville, Arkansas, USA… just outside Little Rock Air Force Base. Where basically everyone in the world who has trained to fly the C-130 since the Vietnam era has spent a good deal of time learning, flying and working. When the J model Hercules began to be phased into the fleet, the new model brought with it a wealth of electronic upgrades along with several new systems & a LOT more capability. The new 6 prop hub design & its distinctive buzzzzzzz sound is likely the first to be noticed, but inside the J model is quite different. The C-130 had for decades retained many of the original systems that had become pretty primitive in comparison with other aircraft. Stepping into a J model for the first time, with its glass cockpit, it feels vastly different.
I remember hearing of this mishap at J-bad, and the investigation that later found that a pelican case was believed to have been stowed forward of the yoke in order to provide a little additional clearance for cargo loading. That IS something that the crews often do, and they’ll use any manner of things to hold the yoke to the rear. Helmets, clip boards, you name it. However, this left a lot of us scratching our heads. We’re all human & humans do make mistakes no matter how much we do to prevent them. This for some reason just didn’t seem to fit in our minds. Just as every control input is logged by the data recorder, multiple electronic systems on board the J model Herc monitor all of the control positions & control inputs in real time. Along with all manner of parameters. Was there NO instrumentation of ‘an issue’ prior to take off? With the pelican (or other type/brand of hard shell) case BLOCKING the pilots’ view of a significant portion of the flight instruments, was there a warning the flight crew simply could not see?
I’m not up to date on the J model Hercules, and my knowledge is limited to prior models. However there are many things I’ve come to know about the latest operational C-130s. This flight crew, as well as the other personnel on board have my absolute respect & appreciation. Their families & all those they leave behind have my sympathies and prayers. I do NOT intend to criticize the crew or their actions at all, nor do I wish to criticize the investigation or those involved in it. It’s only that so many of us have been left mystified by this entire incident. From what we believe we know… this should not have even been possible. IF that case was placed forward of the control yoke in order to hold it to the rear and aid with loading clearances during the ERO - the aircraft knew it. If that case remained forward of the control yoke as the aircraft taxied and then began its takeoff roll - the aircraft knew it. And IF the electronics on board the aircraft knew the yoke was held aft, the electronics would also know the trim characteristics would be incompatible with take off & controlled flight. The aircraft KNEW, but did it, or could it, inform the crew of this? SOMEthing HAS to be missing from this story. Perhaps there’s more information that I simply don’t have access to, and if there is then I can certainly be mistaken… and I remain open to that possibility. The USAF, along with every nation who flies the Hercules, moved quickly to change their training doctrine in an effort to prevent this, or a similar incident, from EVER happening again. For that I am thankful.
I apologize for this being so long, but this mishap hit pretty close to home for me & for many of us. Im not comparing our concerns with those of anyone who lost their loved ones - not in the least. There is no comparison to be made.
This has and will continue to eat at me until there’s something more to learn. There’s got to be something more.
Thanks to ‘The Flight Channel’ for putting all this together for everyone. They do a fantastic job compiling SO much information into these wonderful videos! I’ve likely seen every single one of them, and I always love when I learn a new one is available. Well done, TFC. 👏🏼
Everyone who has ever flown does flight control checks before takeoff. Even after engine start as a pilot we check the rotating surfaces think all control surfaces. You made a long statement about the aircraft knowing this or that but this is basic airmanship. I appreciate your comments but I don't think any of them have any context. Before I flew I was a C-130 engine mechanic and understand the operation quite well. No disrespect intended. And rest in peace to the crew
@@503challenger I appreciate that. But I don’t know that our two viewpoints are all that disparate actually. Of course - all pilots do control surface checks prior to a flight. The potential consequences alone ‘should’ preclude ANY pilot from forgetting that. They ‘should’.
Very nearly everything I’ve read on this mishap, from very early on, including the ARB report, took a fairly steep lean into attaching blame to the flight crew. Now obviously that may or may not be entirely appropriate and deserved. I wasn’t & am not suggesting that it isn’t. The view I tried to take, and admittedly it may have been a stumbling attempt at expressing it, was that of looking at the aircraft in particular & specifically. Because aside from what the flight crew did or didn’t do (not disregarding that but rather only setting it aside for a moment) the aircraft has a particular chain of events all its own. What it will do & what it won’t do. Like I said, my knowledge base precedes the J model. While I’ve come to understand some of what is in the J model cockpit, both retained and new, I only know a little (at best) of what is there today. But from what I do know & what I’ve been told by recent active duty maintainers is that there would have to be a series of errors and warnings/alarms prior to even leaving the ramp. Nobody I’ve spoken with can figure out how that aircraft ever got off the ground. Even supposing it had as much negative elevator trim as possible prior to rolling, it would’ve been trying to stand on its tail as soon as it gathered speed.
Even if I were to concede that EVERYthing the flight crew did on that night was absolutely & entirely wrong… that aircraft has enough sensor capability & logic capability built in to it to prevent them from having done these wrong things. I just wanted to look at the aircraft for a moment. Not the crew. Everyone’s looked at the crew. For a moment we should look at the aircraft.
Really did appreciate your thoughts. Be well. 👍🏼
@Old Street Doc: There's a couple of flight crews out of LRAFB I'd like to talk with. I live in Clarksville, Ar. A few years ago I was traveling east on I-40 headed to a Doctor's appointment in Little Rock. Several miles west of Conway I saw four C-130 J's headed south in the distance. Two broke away, circled back, then flew directly over I-40 headed west at approx 400ft coming straight at us. I could even see em in my rear view mirrors long after they passed. They looked liked the Super Spooky C-130 Gunships I saw in Vietnam coming in for a strafing run. Dozens of cars were actually pulling off the freeway it was that spooky. USAF Veteran
I see the phase the aircraft knew this or that, an aircraft doesn’t know anything that is what the crew is there for absolutely too much faith is put into systems that have no intelligence when they fail they help and warn the pilot but they don’t fly the plane no matter what the capability is ultimately that is the pilots job
I personally am still wondering about the earlier bird strike. You put this whole story together, & now none of the other comments are resorting back to that earlier bird strike. We know the C-130 initially took off, returned & was checked & cleared. Something about this is a missing link to a puzzle.
This is absolute madness. How on Earth could they not notice that the flight controls were blocked?
Probably exhaustion and the fact that it was very dark, although they did have night vision. It is indeed madness
Surely an experienced pilot would immediately notice they weren't getting the normal full travel on the yoke when they pushed forward on it to lower the nose, which would remind them that the case was in the way? I'm sure it all happened fast, but still...
@@itsrtvbaby Perhaps if the pilot had mentioned what he had done, the co-pilot or one of the other passengers might have remembered the case.
@@chakraUK Yes indeed, I would think so as well. Such a tragedy this even happened, especially like the way it did.
@@jammyn7368 Yes, absolutely. Agreed
As a former 39th FE and now professional pilot, this accident was hard to watch. A control check should always be done before entering the runway. To many civilians have died recently due to lack of one. Fly safe people!
Thanks for making this one... I was on this very plane the year before doing the same mission. RIP Ruiz and Sartain and all on board.
A simple post-it note with “remove NVG case behind yoke before take off” might have saved them.
Small visual reminders or cues can often be employed in many aspects of life to prevent all kinds of dangers. For example, I live alone in an apartment, and it's easy to have the stove top or oven on and get distracted with a knock on the door, and leaving it unattended could cause a fire. Every time I use the stove, I just place a bright handkerchief on my doorknob, something visual to remind me not to leave without shutting the stove off. The post-it idea is similar, and might have worked; or he could have just placed a jacket over the whole yoke as a reminder. Put something in the path as a visual reminder. - j q t -
(Slapping my forehead): Duh, of course!!! 🙄
Boowaaaaaaahahaha.
I was at Jalalabad Afghanistan deployed from January thru October 2015. We were suppose to leave that night on the C130 but ended up getting pushed to the right a few days later. Well late in the evening we were all smoking cigars and drinking near beers while we watched the C130 take off and it was like out of a movie except it was real. We couldn't believe what happened. We assumed it was hit by IDF. We immediately ran to get all kitted up assume the enemy was going to take advantage and at the same time rounds were popping off at the time we thought it was enemy fire but it was rounds that cooked off that were on board the plane. I was blown up in April 2015 I expected that but not this especially when a whole company was suppose to be on board to BAF.
Thankyou for contributing your experience. Much appreciated.
Fate is so fickle!
@@mikebouchard5730 and life is dangerous and unpredictable
Yeah, those rounds cooking off will definitely cause confusion.
Gosh what a crazy story. Rest in peace to all the crew. May I ask - what are "near beers?"
Wow I feel so bad. I Also feel bad for all those people still stuck there
The co-pilot must have had a funny feeling on taxi when his hand position most certainly didn't feel right, or when he could only see half his hsi. There may have been a moment after they passed into the unrecoverable stage where he remembered the case, at that point it's probably better if he didn't though.
I wish my dad was a live to get his thoughts on this. Rarely did he swear but I can't imagine a word he'd use on this that wasn't a swear word. He may have suggested that the people in the cockpit and their instructors should have been shot as a safety measure. And no, I'm not going to refer to them as pilots, they don't deserve it. Failed pilots, perhaps.
If you only do one thing before take off, you check the flight controls for FULL AND FREE MOVEMENT - do airline pilots not do this ?
@@millomweb I have to agree with you with this one, Not shot thou but re-trained into something like Security Forces ( MPs Military Police for the Air Force ) or scrambling eggs in the Kitchen. I cant find any excuse for there actions.
It's very sad Indeed but unfortunately there is no room for carelessness in aviation. I hate to sound mean. I respect the lives loss but it sure would have been a much worse tragedy if the pilot continued being wildly careless and made it to commercial aviation and pulled a similar stunt in a large commercial plane leaving JFK or similar
Exactly of someone moved my steering wheel in my car 1 notch forward or backward I would notice in an instant. I honestly don't think that it happened like that. Surely any pilot would notice the yoke 8 inches closer way before he even left the ground. I am calling bullshit
@@millomweb Your attitude is arrogant and distasteful. You never made a dumb mistake, regretted it, and puzzled how you could have overlooked or misinterpreted something with lousy consequences? Well the consequences for these guys were they lost their lives. It's called human error - and every human however great, is capable of it! A dose of humility would make you a better quality person.
My daughters friend Kacey Ruiz was on that flight, Kacey and my daughter went to security forces training in San Antonio, May Airmen Kacey Ruiz Rest In Peace.
This one is tough to fathom. NVGs or not, I don't see how they couldn't be aware of the presence of the case blocking the yoke travel. When the co-pilot pushed his yoke forward to arrest the climb, did it move without resistance to a nose down orientation while the pilot's yoke remained wedged in the climb position and, if it did, why did the plane respond only to the position of the pilot's controls? If the co-pilot couldn't push his yoke forward, wouldn't he sense and say immediately "I can't push the controls forward!" instead of becoming fixated on solving a non-existent trim failure? Why were they wearing NVGs before they got in their seats anyway? If they hadn't been, there would have been ample time and conditions for them to see the case. I guess fatigue and thoughtless routines make you do strange things. I don't chalk this one up to stupidity...it's more like "They did what and didn't notice what!?" RIP to all the innocent victims of one of the most bizarre plane crash scenarios I've ever heard.
The pilot, and copilot yokes are interconnected with fixed interconnect tube they are not independent. The co-pilot had not been in the presence when pilot placed NVG case in front of yoke he was not even aware, so his first thought would be failure when he was the one in charge of piloting the 130 out of Jahalabad. This happened alot quicker than the video portrays after being airborne.
Anyone catch the names or ranks of the pilots?,...possibly both female ?
It's workplace complacency bro, it's a lethal human factor in all industries.
@@bigbearvenom6145 I would think his first thought would be "I can't move this thing!"
@@cy0031 actually, you horrible little goblin, you will find they were both male. Captain Jordan B. Pierson (28), pilot, and Captain Jonathan J. Golden (33), the co-pilot.
I haven't stopped crying since this video played. A dear friend of mine was on that plane. I'm sad for the loss of his life and everyone else that was on that plane. Thank you for this video and thank you to the brave men and women who put their lives on the line for us!!!!
I always can‘t wait to watch your videos. Thanks again!
Any time I've flown, it was part of the run-up to check that the controls are free and that the control surfaces move... even on a Piper Warrior or C152. Why wasn't this in the run-up for a C130?
It was, and they did it before they departed for Jbad. The ERO checklist didn't have them re-accomplish a flight control check after they had landed because the plane had just flown...the flight controls are obviously working fine and were free and correct. The ERO is done with the Engines Running, and typically the pilots don't leave their seats. It is meant to be used for a quick stop to get in and then out. However, there were clearly a lot of non-standards going on during this mission. Also, I can not tell you how cumbersome and situational awareness-draining those NVGs are...they were infuriating to wear and I often felt they were more dangerous than whatever outside threat may have existed.
Anyways, it became an AMC-wide procedure to check flight controls after an ERO. I was in UPT with the pilot of this aircraft. Good dude. Sharp. Just goes to show how quickly things can go wrong.
Recast; It is!!!
@@mattstauber442 Do you remember his name? His initials?
A problem possibly created by the pilot/copilot getting away with an abbreviated pre takeoff checklist run. This happens all too often, and not just with aircraft.
Charles Mills I spent over 7 years on C-130s. My first four years as a traveling assistant crew chief for about 6 months then the rest as a traveling crew chief. I was always, except for a couple times when there was a VIP on board, in the cockpit for take off. Then over 3 years in the Air Force Reserves as a flight engineer. I don’t ever recall any part of the checklist being skipped. Even after an ERO there was at least two checklist, the Before Taxi and the Before Takeoff checklist. One of the items in the Before Takeoff checklist is, “Flight Controls.”
Don’t they check for free controls during preflight? Wouldn’t the co pilot have noticed the yoke way closer to his body during taxi? I get the fact that they couldn’t see the case in low light conditions. I’m asking as a low time private pilot.
@@bigbearvenom6145 : "through" flight (there, fixed it).
@@bigbearvenom6145 "would have" .. .. there I fixed it
I think that's why there's the emphasis on the engine running ground operations bit.. they never shut off the engines, so it's all "one big flight", kinda. Why they wouldn't just do a simple check of the flight controls while taxiing, or notice the yoke position being weird at all though, I have no clue..
This may have been over 6 years ago, but these were great people on this Aircraft that made one mistake that cost them everything. I understand everyone having an opinion, but some of the words I'm reading are completely heartless. I was there, I was in one of the Loadmaster's rooms using his Playstation with a group of guys to unwind when this happened. The flight control check wasn't part of the Engine Running Offload/Onload checklist until after this incident (because of this incident). Four of these six Airmen were my direct co-workers and friends and I just ask that everyone have a little more respect and compassion for them and their memory. No arguments wanted, just love for them.
This really takes me back to Bagram. Hanging out at the Tillman Lodge right next the flight line drinking coffee after coffee, the thunderous roar of F-15s taking off... heading over to the PAX building for roll call, all eyes are on the contractor reading out your last four... 0459.. here! Then you'd grab your gear and walk over to the bird, up the ramp and into the belly of the C130, she's been waiting just for you. The sound of the props gives me goosebumps as they rev up, it is as if they're whispering to me... you can feel safe now because we know your secret. This is my ride to JBad, where another bird will be waiting for me, taking me to the outpost somewhere in that valley, somewhere in this war.
this desciption, you are a gifted writer...
I feel sad for the people who lost their lives in this tragic incidence. May all of them Rest In Peace. I cannot help asking this question: could you tell me honestly what exactly were you fighting for in Afghanistan? And would you need F15s to fight against Taliban who often didn’t have sandals on their feet?
@@masudawan8357 lmaoooo I love your comment, like absolutely love it!
How many innocent people did you kill over there?
Sir, this is a Wendys.
Man so sad thank you for another amazingly well done video!
Very sad. Rest In Peace.
@Beagle Schmiegl what makes u think so?
@Beagle Schmiegl oh he probably had the video on premier
@@Supremeee77 that is correct.
Yes, this is why there should always be a standard operating procedure along with taking off your night vision and surveying your surroundings before moving forward. Look before you leap, but with no disrespect to those people who have died as a consequence of these actions.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you should ALWAYS check flight controls on taxi or runup.
there are a million things to check preflight, you can say the same about traffic, monitoring engines, take-off configuration, on top of that they were in the combat zone with additional things to worry about. Its unfortunate, but sometimes people skip or forget a step to save time or extra worry
Its amazing how many of these accidents are down to pilot / co pilot error rather than mechanical failure. Great video as always but such a terrible accident that should never of happened. RIP to all crew and passengers
Most of the time these are experienced pilots.. I get the impression sometimes experience leads to complacency
So, a good portion of cockpit probably destroyed on impact. So how did the authorities concluded , that a NVG box caused this crash ? Since the pilots didnt know that they kept a box there... No scope of getting it on voice recorder. How ?
Good point
The case never dislodged from in front of the controls post crash?
Cockpit voice recorder.
Flight controls free and correct...we learned to check this for this before takeoff in my very first lesson.
Amazing work brother...RIP to the crew , such an avoidable accident...
Another great upload TFC 👍
RIP to the people lost in this tragedy and condolences to their families.
Thanks, Prison Mike
@@brucelee4996 😆
Dang, this one really got me…so preventable!
Pre-takeoff check: controls: full, free and correct.
Always!
Why would you ever trim an airplane for a run away pitch control problem? We were Instrcted in the C5 to turn off the automation and manually push the yoke fwd and hand fly the airplane......AMC had specific guidance for this after the Alaska crash....... Ugh just sad
YGBSM! I'm just a Private Pilot, but why didn't this crew perform a "Controls Free and Clear" check before leaving parking? It's "Pilot 101" and should be rote. Nickels in the grass for the crew and passengers. Hard learned lesson paid in blood here. Very sad.
I guess with the C-130-J, the flight engineer and the navigator are no longer used. I'll bet a flight engineer would have reminded the A/C about that case.
Not necessarily. A bad FE can compound an already bad situation. Watch The Flight Channel video on the C-130 that crashed just after take off in Georgia a few years ago.
@@AlaskaErik I did, but I still think it's not as likely, but yes there are some cases where it could be. Not as many, though.
Did they actually find that pelican case wedged up against the yoke when they sifted thru the debris??? I mean absolutely no disrespect to the pilot, but I just find that almost impossible to believe.
CVR and FDR data provided the facts and circumstances of why the pilot wedged the case there.
I am not commenting to critique. Using non-standard remedies to difficult situations can readily contribute to outcomes such as this. The bane of anyone who works to ensure safety are shortcuts, complacency, and bewilderment when a non-standard practice results in an unexpected outcome. I've experienced this myself. Missing a step then being surprised by the unexpected slows or stops the ability to correct the situation which can lead to an undesired outcome. It's especially tragic when this leads to a loss of life.
You sound like part of the problem....🪤
Normalization of deviance....
It’s like a flip flop falling of a person’s foot and getting the gas pedal stuck.
This is the saddest military aircraft accident, that I have ever heard about. It's hard to believe, that something like this is even possible, when there's such a comprehensive, preflight,checklist.May all these dedicated men,rest in peace..
I don't understand how one or the other of the flight crew didn't click that the case was still there when they started suffering from flying control issues, and surely they would have been able to feel that the control yokes were not in their normal positions before even taking off? Some major complacency here, starting with the decision to physically block a flying control in a non standard way, the loadmasters even have a small amount of culpability by not reporting that they no longer required the elevators to be up after unloading.
Great video as always! Stay blessed
The pilots killed themselves. I find it inconceivable that two well trained pilots did not notice the aft position of the control yokes nor did they perform a freedom of controls check prior to taking the active runway. As a professional pilot , this infuriates me.
16 hour days, with non-stop changes in mission and taskings, as well as the threat environment of small arms fire up to ir guided manpads combined with some of the most challenging airfields and terrain a c130 crew will ever face leads to crews doing what they need to do to stop for a minute and fucking eat, and coordinate their next legs.
For a "professional" pilot, you sure have a lot to learn about crm and how to analyze an error chain before speaking up so knowingly about a mishap that you think you would have expertly avoided had it been you at the controls.
But you weren't. Its insane to think so callously and narrow minded about any mishap in aviation for a true, "professional" of the trade. We learn from these out of respect for the lives lost, and refrain from stating childish shit like you said here. Anyone with more than a handful of years in aviation, or who has ever really taken in any lessons from reading an AIB report, knows this.
Your attitude/tone leaves little doubt as to your level of proficiency as an aviator to me. Your likeliness to encounter some form of incident is probably higher than average as well. I hope that never happens but if it does, I hope it's when you're mature enough to handle it, because I doubt you are right now.
@@kilobravo2373 Ouch.
A tad harsh, perhaps, but I fully understand.
I was a helicopter pilot in the Canadian Armed Forces for many years, with most of my time on the CH136 Kiowa (OH-58A). I went to too many funerals for guys who died due to similar small oversights and other things that would ordinarily have been trivial.
I had my own share of close calls, some of which were completely outside of my control and some which were not.
It's a very thin line between life and death, "Man, we were lucky", and "Oh, fu..."
Watching this was hard, especially knowing the cause and the outcome and what was going through their minds.
It brought up perhaps a little too many memories of the wrong kind.
I did not know them, but, as soon as I post this, I shall face east and drink to their honour, and to that of my own ghosts.
@Bones McGillicuddy I did say "a tad harsh", but, having read a bunch of other comments from people who have no comprehension of the environment and conditions under which these guys were operating yet have to beak off from the comfort of wherever they are I have changed my assessment.
All that bs you just wrote is meaningless. The pilots still failed to do their proper checks and are responsible for the lives lost on that plane.
It breaks my heart to see this happen! This is not the first time something has restricted movement of the yoke (control column) in flight. Improper use of gust locks were placed at the rudder pedestal base with a clamp and pin that swung down to secure the control column. It was missed on the pre flight inspection, with the same results. Carrier was Southern Air Transport on an L382G - civilian stretch C-130 with -7 Allyson motors.
Come on flight crews, always cycle those flight controls on each and every flight before take off without fail!
At 1:55, was it supposed to be 14 years of service instead of 4? Great presentation and appreciative of your work as always.
This aircraft was delivered new to the base in 2010. Crashed in 2015.
Another example of the incompetence of Air Force pilots. I never trust them with any of my aircraft.
In 5398.5 hours as a C-130 loadmaster I've never heard of pulling back on the yoke for cargo to clear the elevators, and I've moved plenty of high profile cargo. With the yoke pulled back you've still got the rest of the horizontal stab and the beaver tail in place, so I have no idea what pulling back the yoke does to help cargo clear. Were these rookie loads? But this is the first time I've heard what the cause of this accident was. Unfortunate and unbelievable. Our unit deployed to Afghanistan in 2006 and I've flown lots of missions into J-bad, so I always wondered what happened to this plane ever since the crash.
I agree. I had to ask my Stan-Eval load about this technique. He told me it was valid for some cargo and explained that he had had to do it a few times while he was deployed with this very unit and Little Rock as well. Apparently, a few planes sustained damage when cargo contacted the elevators. I don’t know what kind of cargo that could have been though.
@@Kalaninumberone I'm still failing to see where any cargo would ever make contact with the elevators in the neutral position. There is simply no way. They sit higher than the opening of the aircraft and are certainly not close enough to ever be in the way of cargo being on/off loaded. As I said earlier, I've dealt with a lot of high profile cargo and have never seen this as an issue. If it was, it would have been covered during training and emphasized at home station.
Love TheFlightChannel; excellent detailed explanation
I don't understand how this could happen. Isn't there a pre-taxi/pre-takeoff checklist where flight controls are actuated to verify they all work? Not familiar with USAF procedures but in commercial operations this is always performed and would have detected this problem. It's also why any time a system like flight controls is blocked for any reason there's a log book squawk initiated that has to be cleared.
(a year later, but still worth a reply) I'm a 130J loadmaster, I've been in the 39th and deployed with the unit. We didn't talk about this accident super often, but when we did eventually we would get to how this mishap affected changes in the air force policies for learning points for everyone in the room, old and new. One of the Changes that came of this was in the ERO checklist to add a step for a flight control check. I can say there are plenty of times down range where a crew can feel rushed if they are behind their "fragged" timeline and wants to rush out of somewhere to get back on frag. But I can honestly say that of the hundreds of ERO's we did we never missed that step, and we never did not run the full checklist. I've been to some of this crew's headstones in Arlington while we were stopped there on a mission. The tone was about as somber as it could've been, despite none of having actually known the individuals on Torque 62, we had all seen their faces in the pictures in the squadron, we've read their names a thousand times on our patch wall for those who have left the squadron. We may not have known them personally, but they were family to us.
Side note, if your situational awareness is not on point in an environment like that it is very easy to miss something like a case behind the controls. It will hit the object behind the yoke in the same way that it would the forward most input control on the yoke. the only difference you'd really notice is that your arm didn't extend as much as it normally would.
Thank you TheFlightChannel.✔✈
sadly people have to die for other people to write new manuals or improve systems to prevent a crash like that happening again
It is always like that
Or, come to the realization that they should have left a checklist item in.
There just should have been a flight engineer. Some corners should never be cut. Gd bless all or troops
@@vip6296 true
@@kirilmihaylov1934 Every name of every life lost during this 20 year period as well as all lives lost on Sept. 11 2001 must presented to Biden on a plaque titled Tyranny run amok.. Legacy of Failure.
Having flown commercial 45 years it's a good idea to check control movement during taxiing. All commercial airlines have this item in the...' before takeoff '...check list.
What a cool legacy. 👌
WTF - I am no pilot and hate flying as passenger. But I know that there is one thing every pilot does before she is taxiing into take off position and that is a check for the normal and unimpeded functioning of all control surfaces of the plane. Part of this check is done by first pulling the stick all the way back and then pushing it all the way forward. EVERY pilot does this before every take off. How where these aces trained? Either they failed to perform this most basic of all checks or they simply didn't know how a full forward stick movement felt. The explanation with the NVG case blocking the forward movement of the stick and this not being noticed is so outrageous that I suspect that there was in reality another reason for this crash. If this was really the reason for the crash these pilots were either not trained at all or on heavy drugs or absolutely dead tired and so exhausted that they should not have been in a cockpit.
100% this.
There is no requirement to check flight controls before departure?!?! Are you fucking joking. Also HOW IN THE FUCK DO YOU NOT NOTICE YOUR COLUMN IS BLOCKED?!?!?!
Another awesome production by TFC
I was in Kandahar when this happened; RIP Airmen and Contractors. Those USAF cargo crews, especially C130s, fly tons of hours in hostile conditions. Between getting woken up all hours of the night due to rocket and mortar attacks, to sketchy sleeping conditions, those crews get tired……so sad.
My condolences to the families of those lost, but there is no way to put a noble face on this mistake.
So many times tragedies result from people who make stupid mistakes by not following established procedures.
Thank you for reconstructing the crash of this C-130. A relative of mine died in that crash. I never knew what exactly happened. The USAF never divulged the true cause of the crash to family members. I always thought the plane was overloaded or improperly loaded. The plane was in fact perfectly airworthy and everybody on board died for nothing. Pilot error is too benign of a term. This was utter stupidity.
Rest In Peace to the two security forces members who passed on that aircraft. You will never be forgotten 🇺🇸
He never fails to entertain us.Please keep it up brother😃
...captivate?
@@432b86ed no mate, i am actually impressed by his content!
Interesting. Part of USMC KC-130 NATOPS per-takeoff check list is to test flight controls. The check call is "Flight Controls". Response is "Free and easy on top" (referring to elevator and ailerons), and "Free and easy on the bottom" (referring to the rudder). That check alone would have let the NVG case loose.
I was kinda hoping that the act of donning the NVGs might have jarred the pilot's memory. RIP to all aboard.
Me, too.
They were most likely never removed from his helmet once mounted. It's easier to just leave them on.
Nice video bud,So much hard work goes into it.Really appreciate your effort,keep up the good work!
Whenever I see ANY crash involving the military there are PHOTOS of the pilot and co-pilot I'm assuming to personalize what went wrong or not wrong even. But this didn't start with photos of them in uniform and this alone would make me go "I think one or both of them made some major screw ups." Barring any mechanical issue from the bird strike. RIP to everyone on board.
Or it might just be possible that this was and still is a classified mission. Watch the video again and put 2+2 together.
I was at Barksdale when a cargo aircraft landed and had a fire on board that killed one crew member. They didn't let the public know there was actually a bomb planted on board by a terrorist that exploded after the plane landed causing the ensuing fire.
when air disasters are so uncommon and youre such a successful youtuber that you run out of commercial crashes and have to resort to obscure military aviation incidents. still very nice dont get me wrong
Think of how many ways this could have been avoided.
1st of all- not putting the case there in the first place.
Secondly- remembering that you put the case there and removing it.
Thirdly- sitting down and noticing the yoke is out of position.
Fourthly- when attempting to level off you notice neither yoke can go forward.
Lastly- realizing none of your corrective action is having an impact.
Sometimes your own ego is such that the last thing you think about is the possibility you made an error.
In the early 1980s, a Southern Air C130 had a similar accident at Kelly AFB, TX. During the preparation for offloading of cargo, a device designed to position the elevators in an “up” position was in installed by the pilot prior to engine shutdown. Upon engine start up, no one removed the “dog bone “ that was installed to keep the the elevators in the up position. The flight was a night time takeoff flight. They took off, the airplane stalled and crashed between two hangers killing all three crew members on board. I’m surprised that after this accident, it appears that a step on the BEFORE TAKEOFF CHECKLIST to remove an elevator control column lock out device was not added to prevent the crash. I flew as a loadmaster on the C130B models at the 433rd MAW at Kelly AFB and had many times during cargo offloads, requested from the pilots to position the elevators in the up position to prevent damage to the elevators during high pallet offloads. I guess I was lucky that our pilots somehow ensured that the device was removed sometime before take off. RIP to the personnel that lost their lives in this accident.
Surely, surely, the pre-take off/vital actions/full-and-free check is there to highlight exactly this kind of control restriction??
Such a trivial oversight but one that easily becomes deadly given the location of where that case was placed. Really rough.
Damn it,I wonder if the pilot remembered the case in the last fleeting seconds.
Great video as always! However, I noticed a mistake in the video, there were four engines then two engines!! Just thought I'd let you know!
Outstanding report and automation again, thank you. As a student pilot of private small aircraft, we were taught to perform controls free & correct prior to any T/O. Wouldn’t that be the case here too?
Sad for the loss of life, ridiculous that the military didn’t have written procedures to check that flight controls are free and clear before takeoff.
It just breaks my heart, I love these men and women that serve in every branch. I'm thankful for them every day. it's easy to see how a mistake like this could be made.
I flew in the C-130 30 to 40 times? and always thought they could muscle their way out of any situation the way we took off.
I knew 2 of the security forces fly away crew that died. I was stationed with them at Hanscom when it happened. They were good people in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I started learning to fly almost from the day I was born (no joke, I come from a whole family of pilots) from my dad, grandad, and two uncles. By the time I was 10 I was tall enough to get full rudder defection and see iver the instrument panel, so they started teaching properly. ALL of them, every single time, would tell me to cycle the controls to verify I had full movement if the stick and pedals before beginning a takeoff roll; even if we had just landed and taxied back for another takeoff. It became an ingrained muscle memory to do It in every aircraft I have ever flown - if it ever feels wrong, then immediately taxi back to the run-up pad and check it again before lining up for another go. My grandad and former Aur Force pilot uncle would even test me on the control check occasionally by applying the control lock when I wasn't looking. Cycling the controls shouldn't be part of a particular aircraft type's pre-takeoff roll checklist, it should be done by every pilot, every time before releasing brakes and opening the throttle.
God made birds to rule the skies 😅... NOT stupid human population
The trim system on an aircraft does not set an attitude but set a speed which the aircraft maintains with changing attitude. Great video to a very tragic event!
I'm a veteran of 15 years in the Army, including three years in Afghanistan/Iraq. Being Airborne, I spent much time in C-130 aircraft and I could never understand why C-130 pilots ever needed to use blackout conditions and wear NVGs. Try and spot a lit cockpit from the ground. I dare you.
The NVGs are to see terrain, not for light discipline inside of the cockpit.
How awful for these people to experience the aircraft pitching and rolling and dropping out of the sky. RIP to all souls lost in this crash.❤🌹
Of all the dumb things to bring down a plane, I think this one is top 3 for sure.
The amount of times the aircrew feel something is not right but still take off.
Again a wonderful recreation of an aircraft incident!
At first i thought the night vision google case is something similar small like for sunglasses and that they had it put in between the stick and floor so i thought, yeah, you can oversee something like that, but then when i saw the photo, the container was the size of a bloody small suitcase, that blocked half of the instruments.
So the pilot apparently didn't even look at his instruments, otherwise he would saw, that half of it is "censored" so to say.
I'm confused. You stated the incident took place in Oct. 2015. However, you said the C-130 "performed it's 1st flight in 2001 and, in 4yrs of service, accumulated..." If the incident took place in 2015 & was only 4yrs old, how was it delivered in 2001?? 🤔🤔
@@met6490 that's what I was thinking. I didn't point out the mistake just to point out a mistake, but if our mistakes are never brought to our attention than we'll never improve on 'em. That was my only motivation in pointing it out is all...it was in no way out've spite or anything like that, just a friendly "hey, might wanna check that out."
@@met6490 oh no that's perfectly fine, maybe I should've worded it differently. Trust me, we're on the same page, s'all good. That's the problem w/texts, often times comment's get misunderstood.
That’s a lot of fuel and work for the firefighters on the ground. Must have been a mess, sorry for the lives lost.
Honestly idiotic, just complete lack of situational awareness on top of how careless the initial action of placing the case on the yoke was