{4K} FULL POWER SNOWSTORM TAKEOFF in Jackson Hole ~ Alaska Airlines ~ Boeing 737-790 ~ JAC
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- Опубликовано: 11 апр 2024
- In this amazing video, our 2+ hour delayed flight AS707 starts to leave the Deice pad as we set flaps 10 and shut down the engine bleeds. As a blizzard roles in and the snow fall becomes more intense, we line up on runway 19 at Jackson Hole Airport, step on the brakes, and run the engines up to 60% to warm up the anti ice. We then release the brakes, punch the full 24K N1% running the engines up to 95%, much higher than the standard -700 thrust setting of 83%-90%. We accelerate down runway 19 and rotate at 118 knots where we have 4,000+ fpm rates on the climb up to 40,000 feet. The terrain, clouds, and white scenery are gorgeous as we ROAR out of Snowy Wyoming. Enjoy!
My apologies for the blurry windows just after takeoff, this was because of the thick, sticky type 4 deice fluid we used in Jackson Hole due to active precipitation.
Aircraft: N618AS (Eyebrows)
Departure: KJAC RWY 19
Arrival: KSFO RWY 19L
Seat: 3F (First Class)
Date: February 18, 2024
Flight Time: 1 hour, 55 minutes
Cruise Altitude: FL400
Callsign: ASA707
Takeoff Config: Flaps 10, Bleeds Off, Anti-Ice on, 24K Thrust - 95.2% N1
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Seeing the change from snowstorm to blue sky is amazing 😍😍
Blue marble lives!
I'm all in for full power at take off no matter what the weather.
That’s super inefficient for the airlines, causes more engine wear, more fuel use, more noise, and you don’t need all that power. Thanks for watching!
nice
As a recently retired commercial pilot there has never been a situation where anything less than full power was used for take-off. Certain departures require power to be reduced once a safe altitude has been achieved for noise abatement.
@@tomarmstrong1281which airline and aircraft is this? This is definitely not a current operation.
Isn’t delta or united the airline that chooses to use the minimum amount of takeoff power needed and they end up using like 99% of the runway lol
I will never stop being amazed at what these planes and the immense talent flying them can do. Most excellent!
My wife and I dreamed of seeing Jackson hole.
She watched video feed of downtown all the time. Cancer took her last June, I'm devastated she never got to see it!
JAC is gorgeous! Im so sorry for your loss and that you guys never got to see it. Thanks for watching
Very sorry to hear that,hope your doing as best as possible given your loss.🙏
I’m sure your wife’s smile was a thousand times brighter than any image of Jackson hole. Been there many times
33 years of visiting family in Wilson I've been in and out of JAC over 100 times. Always a thrill.
It’s amazing. Thanks for watching!
The only time snow takeoffs bother me is when it's been 45 minutes since they de-iced the plane and the snow is accumulating on everything.
You can’t take off with that!
Type iv and holdover table
Exactly
And...And it says Alaska Airlines on the outside of the plane.
I've been told 20 minutes is the limit depending on temp and rate of precip.
Great seat for a video. Love the engine sound and breaking through the clouds. I’m a fan of that “pinned to your seat” kind of takeoff.
Me too, it’s amazing. Thanks for watching!
I agree with you I love How they kept the brakes on for a really long time, it was like a slingshot! The other thing that I thought of while watching this particular takeoff was the fact that these planes remind me of a two-stroke outboard motor at WOT! That deep growling buzz saw sound is intoxicating I will never ever become content listening to it!
It's safe to say that ALL takeoffs at JAC will be FULL power.
The runway at Jackson Hole Airport (JAC) is 6,300 feet long and 150 feet wide, surfaced with asphalt.
The required runway length for a Boeing 737 to take off can be influenced by several factors, including altitude, temperature, and aircraft load. Jackson Hole Airport (JAC) is located at a high elevation (6,451 feet above sea level), which impacts aircraft performance due to thinner air. High altitude requires longer runway lengths for takeoff because the air density is lower, reducing engine performance and wing lift.
The general rule is that for every increase of 1,000 feet in altitude, an additional 10% of runway length is needed. Considering Jackson Hole's altitude, and given that a Boeing 737 typically requires between 6,500 and 8,500 feet of runway at sea level (depending on the model and load), you can expect that at Jackson Hole, the required runway length would need to be significantly longer.
Given this, a Boeing 737 operating out of Jackson Hole might need closer to the upper end of its range, potentially requiring around 7,150 to 9,350 feet or more of runway length, depending on the specific model, load, and current weather conditions. This calculation is a rough estimate and actual requirements can vary. Jackson Hole Airport's runway length of 6,300 feet may be challenging for fully loaded Boeing 737 flights under certain conditions, possibly requiring weight restrictions or other operational adjustments.
Hi, thanks for your comment. In fact, few JAC takeoffs are with full power. Often times there is a FLEX or AT takeoff but this time we didn’t do it. Also, the altitude rule is assuming the temperature is the same which is simply not true for JAC. Thanks for watching!
@@inflight_aviation I am not a current pilot; however, in my eight years of flying my King Air, I always used full power for take-off. Nothing is more worthless than fuel on the ground and the runway behind you. With all due respect, the altitude rule has nothing to do with take-off.
If the aircraft is lightly loaded, the pilots would likely use FLEX/AT; however, at JAC, a near-full 737 requires full power. (see my last paragraph)
The altitude rule commonly refers to the regulations governing the altitude at which an aircraft must fly to ensure safe separation between aircraft flying in opposite directions. This rule is crucial for managing air traffic, particularly in busy airspaces, and is part of what is known as the semi-circular (or hemispheric) rule.
How FLEX/AT Takeoff Works:
Assumed Temperature Calculation: The calculation is based on various factors including actual temperature, runway length, aircraft weight, and wind conditions. The goal is to determine the highest temperature at which the aircraft can safely take off without using full engine power.
Inputting the Data: The pilot inputs this assumed temperature into the flight management system (FMS) or directly through the thrust management system.
Engine Thrust Setting: The engines then calculate the thrust required for this "warmer" condition. Since warmer air is less dense, engines produce less thrust in warmer temperatures. By assuming a higher temperature, the engines are intentionally restricted to a lower thrust level than they could potentially produce on that day.
Benefits: This technique reduces the amount of thrust needed for takeoff, thereby saving fuel, reducing engine wear, and extending the life of engine components. It also reduces the noise footprint during takeoff.
Limitations: The use of FLEX/AT takeoff is limited by safety margins and cannot be used in all conditions. For instance, on very hot days, on shorter runways, or when the aircraft is at or near maximum takeoff weight, full thrust might be required to ensure safety.
@tdsmith hi, yes everything you’ve said is correct and I’ve already mentioned in this comment section around 20 times. This plane had 52 passengers on it and our takeoff weight was 122.2. King air’s planes are turboprops, therefore full power is usually a normal operation because the power to weight ratio is lower. Cheers
ahhhhh yes i love you tube videos with big jet engines in the way.
Not going to be sick .... not going to be sick .... AAAH, the wings are green !!! *DWARF*
It’s de-ice fluid to keep the snow off the wings so you can fly!
@@inflight_aviation guess he just made a joke...
Took off from Dulles once in a snow storm long line of planes getting de-iced then we got de-iced again just before taking the runway hit it one last time before we took off. From push back till we lifted off was about an 45 minutes so many planes backed up.
those wings are absolute miracles of engineering; do you know how much a big jet weighs all up! whoa
In ground icing you taxi with the flaps up until takeoff. They also brought the power up to allow the wings and engine anti-ice to reach temperature.
The engines are also revved to spin off any ice or snow on the fan blades or inside of the engine cowling. Thanks for watching!
Had a couple of those take-offs this winter. Its a bonus 30 seconds of high revs on the runway :)
@@jonathanchester5916 yup!
Going there in August can't wait 🙌
It’ll be amazing ;)
Love the ice shedding pre max power rev up!
Static run up is legit!
Magnificent.
After watching this video, Samos in Greece will be peanuts next summer 😊
Haha thanks for watching!
Excellent snowy weather video!
Thanks! It was one of my favorite flights of all time.
Nice little grey PJ lining up behind you!
That was a lot of type 4 anti-ice on the wings. It quickly blows off after T/O.
Always reminds me of the sound of A lawn boy grass cutter.
Great video!
Crazy to fly in snow
Yes but it’s super cool! Thanks for watching!
There are many amazing things about aviation, chief among them that air is INVISIBLE.
I grew up in L.A. smog in the 60s and early 70s. We had a saying for those days when we went to Yosemite, where the air was clean, clear and crisp. “We can’t trust air we can’t see!”
@TenMinuteTrips haha
Excellente!🎉
Thank you very much for watching!
Has ASA always flown to Jackson hole!? Pretty cool!
It’s relatively new, but their routes are awesome! SAN,SFO, SEA!
I don’t remember seeing a plane stay in full power that long.
This is a pretty short time in full power, Alaska does a thrust reduction at 800 feet AGL. Thanks for watching!
They were running with wing de-ice on during taxi to throttling up.
Thanks for sharing
I have been on planes of all sorts and my favorite part is the takeoff, it's exhilarating for me.
The only thing that ever gets me nervous and I know it's normal, is the flexing of the wings, in the back of my mind I'm thinking, that looks like it could snap off.
The wings aren’t going anywhere haha
The engines will snap off long before the wings do
I used to fly in and out of here all the time forty years ago. Take your auto en try that on for size.
Ah, they did the 50% for 30 seconds before taking off! It's for during icing condition. I've seen the pilot I followed do that once and he explained it to me.
70%
@@inflight_aviation , as a non-pilot, I'm sort of surprised the landing gear held without sliding on that somewhat contaminated runway under that power.
Greatest aviation video description I've ever seen :) How did you know the exact thrust setting?
Thank you so much for that compliment. Pilots, dispatch, and all the performance data- yes I got all of it before the flight ;). We originally planned for an AT of +19°c but as the weather worsened we just cancelled the derate. This is pretty common for me as I love all the numbers, so on many of my videos I’ll share the takeoff numbers. Thanks so much for watching!
I'm a little bit tired of "TOGA takeoff" but with highly derated thrust videos :) , so it's nice to see there's no clickbait here on your channel and also you give the numbers. Nice video,good job thank you
@@andrewb9314 haha yes I am too, have no worries here, when the title of my video says full power takeoff, that’s exactly what it is haha. Thanks again
Alaska pilots be like, “We fly into Juneau in worse than this.”
Juneau doesn’t get this weather as they’re right on the bay. Barrow and Nome do however haha
I’ve taken the old 61/66 milk run through JNU and YAK to visit family on the old 737-200 combi aircraft in some gnarly weather. Maybe not in the regular but they definitely get it on occasion. ASA pilots are some of the best in the States because they’ve gotten good flying in mountainous terrain in bad weather.
@@owenmiller9906 very true. I'll be headed up to northern Alaska on a 4 day trip later this year for some amazing content.
Allegiant air wouldnt take off in EUgene and delayed us for 4 hours. But obviously it was a wacked deal becuase they folded in that airport!
Most modern aircraft are overpowered twin engine designs. Most have full gross weight single engine take off and landing capabilities. The ability to get airborne with engine failure on take off is a testament to their power. The engines have so much power that full power is not only unnecessary, it increases maintenance costs. Weight, density altitude, and runway conditions and length (for braking) determine take off power settings. At the reduced setting, there is enough room to reject the take off at the V1 point.
This has been established on almost every comment chain on this video haha
Why were the wing green on the ground but silver in the sky? De-icing fluid ?
Yup the thickness of the de-icing fluid got wiped off after takeoff. Thanks for watching!
Looks like another regular winter day in Alaska.
A winter day in Alaska would be dark.
@@inflight_aviation if you’re up towards barrow yeah. But yes you are right, go to work it’s dark, get off work it’s dark.
@@ViewlesS13 haha yup, then in the summer you have midnight sun up there.
If planes were to have launch control it would look like that lol... 50% power hold the parking brakes and then release and slingshot down the runway...
That was generously above 50%. The purpose for that was to flick all the ice and water droplets off the engine for max performance takeoff.
Great video. It looks like the Captain forgot to take the park brake off when he went to take off. No such thing as cruise climb with this captain, pretty well full power all the way. What was the descent like... 40 degrees nose down? :)
Thanks for the comment. That was a static-run up where the engines are revved for 30 seconds checking for normal indications on the EICAS. The climb was full climb thrust to get away from the terrain. The descent was fine, just very strong turbulence at times. Thanks for watching!
The static run-up is a standard ice-shedding procedure in cold weather operations.
@@seageraviation9997 correct!
Is this a seasonal service? I didn't even know ASA served JAC
ASA serves JAC regularly to SEA and SFO, SAN and I believe SJC seasonal.
Seems to work
What does?
I thought that take offs are not allowed at Jackson Hole airport if you cannot see surrounding mountains???
Not sure, but we could faintly see them to the south.
@@inflight_aviation thanks for answer
@@aharony7633 sure!
Nope!
Just have to be able to maintain a depicted climb gradient and path. Gradient depends on airspeed. I've departed many mountain airports when I couldn't see and avoid. Departure procedures are written for most airports. My aircraft, CL 350, climbs like a rocket.
Of course I meant to say GROUND speed, not airspeed.
# 4 ?
?
When is there never a full power take-off, snow or no snow?
Most of the time. They only use as much power as is needed, keeps down noise, saves fuel and reduces engine wear.
Full power takeoffs are required on contaminated runways and certain departures for certain airlines. For example, American uses max power out of SNA for every departure. Then there is temperature, which when is high often requires full power to take off. Thanks for watching!
@@inflight_aviation Is that because of reduced air density during higher temps?
Thanks for the video BTW
@@TheVicar correct! In Denver in the summer is a big one! Thanks for watching
American 757 launch out of SNA is one of the best rides near Disneyland
Where was this flight going too
SFO- Yo what sup JoeyandCamo. That information is always in the description.
SFO
Those engines can still rev higher, it's not full power
This is full power, as it’s 24K thrust which is this aircraft’s max rated takeoff thrust. However, a MAX power is always possible and can be done by moving the throttles up more.
@@inflight_aviation Ah, max continuous thrust?
@@TheMatsushitaMan nope, MCT is in the Airbus and it’s the highest thrust detent that can be used continually. CON is the same bit in the 737, and it’s an N1 setting that’s only used for engine failure or pilot instinct. The Airbus throttle software is called the FADEC, full authority digital engine control, and it’s very automated. TO/GA on the Airbus is rarely 100%, and if it’s not there’s nothing you can do about it because it’s still the full thrust, just a lower N1 due to air pressure. In the 737, there is one throttle Axis and the throttles directly represent the N1 on a linear scale. The throttles all the way up is absolute maximum power that the CFM56-7B can produce which is going to be around 104-107% N1. And this is 27,300 pounds of thrust. The 737-800s for Alaska have a standard rating of 26K thrust, though 53 out of their 59 -800 aircraft have an option to bump the throttles to that full 27K. The -700s are flat rated at 24K, though I believe some can bump to 26K. Of course, all these numbers are standing if auto throttle is used and we’re setting the thrust to the set N1. The reason this is full power is this aircraft had no other option for more thrust under normal procedures, and this was the most we could put out staying under the -700’s 24K limit. The thrust limit like 24K, 26K, 27K ETC has an N1 that is subject to change in different temperatures, altitudes, and the corresponding pressure. Lower air pressure means less air molecules are available which means less thrust is available. It is very similar vice versa in cold conditions. Because the air is so dense, the aircraft’s full power is also a much lower N1 because there’s so much air to take in. Let’s have an example- a 737-800 with 26K engines will take off from Los Angeles in August. It’s 24°C and the aircraft can produce 100.2% N1 just for example. Then a few months later this airplane flies into LGA in December and it’s 6°. The full take off thrust will be much lower, probably in the ballpark of 96%. And Airbus is very similar. In say OGG or LIH on a nice day you’ll be able to get very close to if not right at 100% N1 on an A321CEO. Then on an A319 in Yellowknife in -24°C January, you’ll get about 79% thrust at a TO/GA setting - CRAZY right? I hope this helps. Thanks for reading all this info haha
@@inflight_aviation I see.. yeah I read all that, thanks for the good explanation!
I myself love high N1 speeds, but now I know from your comment that N1 isn't directly linked to thrust force.
@TheMatsushitaMan glad to hear that. Thanks a ton for watching!
Not quite full TOGA. This is full TOGA. ruclips.net/video/KLl1Wq8aons/видео.html
You bet this is full toga. The video you sent is a 737-900, which had a 27K TO/GA, this bird had a 24K. If it wasn’t full toga, I wouldn’t have said that. Cheers