Chinese K40 Laser Safety / What is true?
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- How safe is a Chinese Laser Cutter?
To get answers other than confusing search results from Google, i asked the German Academy for Laser Safety in Berlin how dangerous these cheap chinese laser machines really are.
I asked Prof. Dr. Eichler questions you have asked in my comments, so as questions i had never had found a believable or precise answer on the web.
Sure not every question could be answered and some are pretty complicated to figure out without having the machine properly tested in a lab, but some answers are pretty interesting specially
for beginners! I must confess that there is so much more to talk about when it comes to laser safety, but it would exceed the length of a watchable video.
A Special Thanks goes to Dipl.-Ing Mme Schneeweiss and Dr. Prof. Eichler that they took their time to answer my questions!
Please as always excuse my crude english but besides scripting, i needed to translate all the answers of Prof. Dr. Eichler in a way they would not falsify their meanings.
Disclaimer: I am not responsable for any injury of all kind. This video is informative but does not explain the dangers and hazards of laser radiation in high detail!
LINKS:
Akademie für Lasersicherheit Berlin: www.laserstrahlenschutz.com/
Laser safety goggles to German standards: bit.ly/30UItOv
Link to the ManCave and to the K40 safety checklist download: bit.ly/2Wx81Sq
I hope you enjoy this video!
There is more!
More videos about the K40 Laser and other interesting Projects on my Channel!
/ kennnix
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the real danger of these machines is fire. We had a 15k$ us brand name co2 laser at work cause millions in damage when it caught fire, while unattended. Took out multiple buildings, and shut the business down for a week.
Is it safe to use the laser indoors if laser strikes bricks on fire place? What if laser strikes walls or ceilings? Are white surfaces safe? What about surfaces which are not white??
Excellent channel , you definitely deserve more subscribers ! Keep up with the lovely quality , the 16min passed like nothing !
Love your calm voice and the good explanation 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
EXCELLENT VIDEO and INFORMATION!
Thanks for this video, it answered a lot of the questions I had about the k40 and lasers specifically.
thank you info on this subject was confusing and hard to navigate untill now a thousand thank yous
thank you for the informative video, I will be changing some of my practices as a result.
Good video in terms of the points it brings up, but I agree with @SarbarMultimedia that you may be overstating the dangers of laser exposure. Take appropriate precautions and you will be as safe as you can be when using any laser cutter, which is never 100% safe. Is a laser cutter inherently dangerous? Yes. Just like most other machines and power tools.
Direct and indirect laser exposure is always the biggest immediate danger with any laser system that operates beyond Class 1. However, regular acrylic and polycarbonate are inherently opaque to far-IR light at 10600nm. The thickness of the material is important in terms of how quickly the laser would burn through it, but direct intra-beam exposure to the acrylic window is unlikely unless a mirror failed in such a way as to reflect the beam up at the window, or you foolishly attempted to cut a reflective material like metal. A 3mm thick piece of regular acrylic - including plain clear acrylic - should completely block any radiation from diffuse reflections at 10600nm. Acrylic and polycarbonate are also mostly opaque in the UV band as well, particularly UV-C which is the most dangerous for your eyes, so the same window should offer you good protection there. This is different from visible light lasers, where it's the dye in the polymer that absorbs at the wavelength of the laser, and optical density is affected by the composition of the dye.
You should absolutely still buy laser safety goggles specifically tested and certified for 10600nm protection at OD5+, and you should always wear them when the machine is operating, because accidental exposure can and does happen, but a 3mm+ acrylic or polycarbonate window of any colour or none should protect against diffuse laser radiation and harmful UV from a CO2 laser tube. Tinted acrylic is desirable, though, to reduce the visible glare from the cutting surface. What worries me more is the possibility of inadvertent exposure though holes in the case, like the vent holes I have on my front cover. If the first mirror goes far enough out of alignment (unlikely but not impossible), the beam will miss the second mirror altogether and be directed at the front of the case. I noticed the video mentioned putting tape over these holes. I actually intend to put acrylic behind the vent holes to prevent laser light escape, but it's definitely a failure mode that concerns me.
With CO2 lasers, inadvertent contact with the high voltage is also a risk that must be mitigated because it absolutely can kill you. If the laser tube fails, you will certainly get arcing to the case metal, and if the HV part of the PSU breaks or the HV cable insulation is compromised, the same may happen. Make sure your power supply and the metal case are properly grounded via the power socket and you eliminate most of that risk, because even if the HV shorts to the case, it will go straight to ground and not through you. The un-insulated terminal connections of the ammeter inside the original-version K40 are problematic since they are part of the high-voltage circuit; I would at least put hot glue or silicone over them to better insulate them. You should check the laser tube connections at the anode and cathode, too, to make sure they are properly insulated. I've seen at least one video with a K40 with bare wire wrapped around the connection posts on the laser tube. That's just an accident waiting to happen.
K40s are made cheaply, and I'm far more concerned about the electrical system than I am about the optics. Anyone who buys one needs to check - and if necessary fix - the case grounding, HV wires to the laser tube and all other wiring connections, before ever turning it on. This is not your typical piece of consumer electronics; it's an industrial tool and should be treated and maintained as such.
Good looking out
A fantastic video.......always amazes me these other YT K40 videos of folks standing over their machines watching it cut. Utter madness.
Great video! Thanks for all your hard work in researching this!
Chinese manufacturers have been known to blatantly lie about other things such as the ratings of materials they sell and the values of electronic components, I think it's a safe assumption that the windows on those things can't be trusted either, given we're talking about potential permanent eye damage personally if I bought one I'd plan to immediately replace it with material from a known reliable source. The fact that some are even sold without a shutoff switch for when you open the lid which would cost them less than $1 to include already tells you what some of them think of the end user's safety.
This was very helpful and informative 👏
Thanks for the video, this is a good one!
Thank you for that very informative video! It's easy to follow, well explained and your voice is just nice to listen to! And just a side note: wearing a 4Ocean-bracelet makes you even more sympathetic (:
This video raises several questions. These machines are not industrial machines so there is no regulation on the way they are used privately. There seems to be a major disconnect here with the legal requirements to buy the "certified" eye protection and and the individuals right to ignore it. If these machines are as deadly as this video portrays why isn't Germany banning import or sales of these machines? Co2 laser wavelength is relatively long wavelenght and must not be thought of as being the same as fibre laser or diode laser light. Very briefly the word "coherent" was used and defines the special make up of light in a laser beam. This property causes the light to "stick together" just like the streams of laminar flow water you see in fountains. There is no dangerous sideways laser light that is going to bite you. Just like a bullet, if the beam hits you its dangerous , if it misses you it's not. A DIRECT CO2 laser beam is not very selective, There is a very small group of materials that are used for lenses that allow the beam to pass through unaffected.We use these for lenses. ALL metals reflect the beam (some better than others). We use these for machine mirrors. Whats left is EVERYTHING ELSE that will absorb the light energy at the SURFACE of the material and convert it to heat. Whether it be your eye your clothes it will heat the SURFACE it hits. So standing in front of a laser beam IS dangerous. However, take a look INSIDE any laser machine and you will see plastic and paint everywhere. Are these scorched or melted? There is an essence of scientific truth in every fact in this video but emphasising them in a scaremongering way is a bit like warning you to stay at home every time it rains because lightning can kill you. Jessica is correct with her comment that there is a bigger risk of setting fire to the material INSIDE the machine and burning your house down, than going blind. NEVER walk away from a laser machine whilst it is CUTTING material and always have a CO2 fire extingisher nearby (the risk is very low so I hope I'm not adding to your fears)
Respect and understand laser technology, dont fear it.
As you probably know, once a laser gets strong enough, diffuse reflections (such as one off a white wall) ARE dangerous to the eye, even if not strong enough to hurt much else anymore.
Thank you kindly for this very useful information
Very Informative Video
It is also worth checking that the ground (earth) connection is correctly connected to the metalwork of the machine. Some K40's have the connector attatched over the painted metal and so do not connect to the metal. You need to remove the paint where the connector is fitted and check with a meter that you have a good connection.
Good call, thanks!
Thanks this is very helpful.
Superb video
Great informative video, thank you :) this will definitely change how I use my laser!
Great informative video 🙌🙌
What type of safety laser googles you recommend most?
I have two green laser safety googles, that came with the CNC 3018.
Thank you
thank you for the video i didnt know these things.
I was looking at some filters to replace the stock one and the price is very steep. I'm thinking about covering the window and adding a Blink mini camera and just monitor the progress from even my phone. It has temperature monitor capabilities which I might try to rig up to an auxiliary system to shut it down in case of a fire. This should address both problems and those cameras are not expensive.
Keep in mind that these machines are perfect to start fires, so even you see that theres a fire you must be quick, i once had a flame in there and it took like 15 seconds to get dangerously big. Mind that there is a perfect airflow inside the machine due to the extraction fan.
Acrylic is pretty much opaque to the laser... so is glass. The tint on the window isn't very dark though and the incandescence at the site the laser is hitting can be too bright to look at through it though.
About Question 11, for people that are not using an IR camera: DSLR's often contain an IR filter in the body of the camera, so if you're using that to monitor the K40, you might be able to see the beam by 'simply' removing the IR filter. There are plenty of videos on RUclips about this as IR photography is a thing apparantly.
Correct, most cameras nowadays have a build in IR filter, on professional cameras you could use the tungsten filter as daylight filters filter out IR. Don’t know if you can remove it on a dslr so easily.
Can anyone help me out here as I bought a K40 a few months ago but being on a budget getting a proper pair of Uk or European en207 certified co2 safety glasses is been a bit of a pain in the a*se, does anyone have a brand name or manufacturer I can turn to as a lot I’ve come across are over in the US and their reg’s are not as stringent as ours in Europe because as you probably know they only go by the OD reg’s! Oh! Brilliant video I had to show the wife as she didn’t think co2 lasers were as dangerous as I’d informed her but this video got the message across with simplicity brilliantly! Keep them coming
From Liverpool 🇬🇧
Hi Joe, thanks for the kind words. Laser goggles from Germany that have European certifications can be found here: bit.ly/3jpOn2o However i would write them an email and let them know your lasers specs, so you can be sure to get the right goggles that really protect your eyelight!
@@MancaveEffects thanks for your help I'll take a look and fingers crossed I'll be ready to go, oh! No problem about my comment as I've always checked them out because of the way you explain and simplify things especially for newcomers my K40 had two plastic washers between the body of the machine on the earth connection so yes I would have been toasted had (I've sanded it down to the steel and removed the offending washers even the live wire to the 40w (the claim) tube was just twisted together (finger tight) not even insulated and the paper sticker on the tube had what appeared a deliberate scratched or fingernail through the paper on the labeled box section that stated the wattage of the tube so is it a second hand one I don't yet know but the only way to find out how good it is (is to test it) and hope for the best! I don't know if I should seal around the lid with a rubber seal after I seen the tape you put across the front on one? I've already put a micro switch on the lid the will cut the powder to the laser if anyone accidentally lifted the lid (highly unlikely though) I had an idea (just a idea!) Try and install a mini camera to the outside (on the machines body) by the work area to get the K40 at work footage onto a old PC monitor I have as you can't look at it with the lid opened obviously although would this idea of having inside footage shown on my man cave wall mounted monitor be safe to look at as after all it's not omitting anything on the monitor screen (radiation) 😷 ?although you'd probably still need to use you safety goggles I suppose to see the footage being transmitted to it? I have a spare "mini" CCTV camera from a bird box out of my aviary, that's how I got the above idea " if you can put a camera in a bird box then can put one recording the inside footage of a machine? Any heat off the workpiece could be a issue and smoke (although I do have a inline extractor ready and I've recently removed that extractor outlet that did reduce the working space) but not anymore, anyway thanks for your help and without the likes of yourself the K40 and its good and bad issues wouldn't be available as after all they (videos) are life savers from this notorious machine.
Stay safe and goodbye!.
Excellent video. I would be interested in a video showing how to install safety switches on the lids of the laser.
I will come back to this subject shortly! Thanks
Yes me too!!! Great video!
Raiders Of The Lost Ark original Atari cartridge, i spent hundreds of hours playing that as a kid :)
Great video, I'd just like to expand on #11 for others - Why does my camera not pick up the output of the CO2 laser.
From the wavelength diagram earlier you'll see that IR is a huge range in the electromagnetic spectrum. We are most familiar with higher frequency (shorter wavelength) IR, which is used in remote controls and CCTV night illumination, and this is what can be detected by normal digital camera sensors. This is an almost unwanted side effect of the sensor technology, and most large cameras have filters to deliberately block it to maintain a true image, but phone cameras generally don't and will detect it.
The CO2 laser's IR wavelength is longer than these more familiar IR devices, and the camera sensors just don't react to it. The filters the professor suggests do react to the longer wavelength and "convert" it into a wavelength the camera sensors can see.
If you think of IR as a visible colour spectrum it's like being able to see blue, but not being able to see red.
Super interesting! I was asking myself how these filters and lenses would physicly work! Thanks for the explication! :)
@@MancaveEffectsYou're welcome. Thanks to your channel I've almost bought a laser cutter 4 times this year already!
I don't know the exact filters the good professor was referring too, but I guess whatever they are made of is excited by the long wavelength IR and fluoresce in the visible light range.
Knowing a phone camera can detect regular IR provides a handy trick for checking if your TV's remote control batteries have died... Just video the LED with your phone whilst pressing a button ;-)
There's actually a whole subculture of DIY photographers who deliberately remove the IR filter from their sensors, and then place a visible light filter on the front of the lens so the sensor only receives IR. Makes for some interesting pictures.
Sehr interessantes, cooles Video.
Mein Abonist sicher👍
Frau Schneeweiß ist ja mal der deutscheste deutsche Name, den ich je gehört habe😂
First of thanks to You and Contributors for such a great instructional video !!!!
The contents are very clear but i do not want to draw conclusions by myself so please if you can answer following questions i'd really appreciate
1 I have a diode laser , its a cheap "two trees totem s 5.5" , i have eliminated risks for my eyes by placing machine behind me and by using a webcam to visually check the process but my concern is now about risk of skin cancer due to radiation... is it diode radiation as dangerous and co2 radiations under this aspect ? some material can reflect part of the light , should i totally enclose the machine ?
2 my dream would be one day to customize a k40 and enlarge it same as i did with diode...dimensions will be much bigger that original and this will mean eliminate the original enclosure and close the machine in to a sort of wooden made room with a webcam to control the process real time. would a 10 mm thick playwood be enough to make the enclosure ? consider that to cut fabric ( my purpose ) i will be using laser and 10-30% of its power
thanks in advance for your answer
Hi! Pls help. I just bought a k40. My concern was the cover of the machine is just a white clear acrylic. Not the orange color acrylic which i know it serves as a protection for the eyes. Hooe to hear from you Sir. Thank you
Dan Nitsua, orange or clear both will stop the actual infrared laser beam as ir lasers are not capable of passing through acrylics. So as long it is not burning a hole into the shield you should be fine. BUT there can be some visible light that gets reflected from the working piece. UV for example could give you arc eye when watching the laser operating. Always wear an appropriate pair of laser safety goggles when you must look inside the machine while it is operating!
Thanks for a very detailed and informative video. What type of
protective glasses are needed for the Zeus X 7 watt 450nm laser
pointer?
7 watts 👀 dude i would really invest into some professional safety goggles! Contact a company that is specialized into such gear. Even an indirect reflection or deflection from almost every surface will burn your eyes out faster than you can blink at 7 watts!
@@MancaveEffects Thank you for the advice. What ratings should the eye protection have for the Zeus X 7 watt 450nm Laser?
@@MancaveEffects I don't have the laser yet but have bought +6 OD glasses. These:. LaserPair Laser Protective Glasses 200 - 540nm O.D 6+ & 900 - 1100nm O.D 5+ Q-switched. Are they strong enough? Should googles seal around the eyes, like ski googles??
There it was! I found the link to the k40 security checklist mate ;)
Have you recieved the link i sended you on Patreon?
@@MancaveEffects Oo .. I had !! But i might not have scrolled down enough to see the link ^^' My bad ! Thanks a lot ;)
AC 50Hz is actually more dangerous than DC and you can't let go at lower currents
The reason is the pulsing nature causes your muscles (including heart) to spasm in a way you can't let go
My question, since American outlets use a grounding plug, do you still ground your machine ?
Usually if everything is hooked up correctly ground should be ground but i had some experiences where this was not the case so if you want to be sure, ground the unit seperatly.
Please show how to make the switch upgrade.
I did, in the video about the K40 power Supply i show how to connect the switch.
I most definitely will be purchasing the appropriate safety goggles, but would it be worth purchasing a new shield? Also, does the machine emit any other harmful wavelengths that cannot be contained?
I make sure to have good safety goggles, i did not upgrade the actual shield and i‘m fine.
I 💙 D.B sticker best mean drum and bass ..
my friend you are a very wise expert and this is all overwealming, i am about to purchase a
Eager to purchase a laser engraver but i dont know what type of plexiglass that is laser safe? ive been looking at the Ortur laser engraver which is all open
Great vid. But I think I got convinced of not buying one
I think that it is always better to have a safe approach to those things. The unit makes a great job and a lot of fun but i wanted to highlight that it is still a class 4 laser device and can be potentionally dangerous
@@MancaveEffects ur video is the best I've found so far that explains the risks of this machine
This. Video has been a great help. I too have decided against it... but I am glad... so thank you!
Looking for someone with k40 experience in the New England region. Is that you?
Nope, sorry i am currently situated next to Germany.
Can you tell me, how long the laser tube last?
All the cheap ones list 1000-3000 hours, most list 2000 as a standard. I have no idea if that is correct, but several of the users on youtube here have many hours in with no problems. But with all this cheap knock off stuff, I am sure some fail quickly and others last as long as they suggest. It appears about half the price is the tube, I see replacements for about $180ish. Of course, somebody with some hours in could answer this better.
@@clok1966 180usd for the tube is a bargain price for me. The 50w version of the machine that i got cost almost 1000usd in my country(malaysia). I had only used it for few months, but the machine perform really well and generates fair amount of income, at least for now.
@@affiqikhwan9036 that is for the 40watt, just to be clear, the machine costs $320 here, I have not priced the 50 Watt versions.
Lets face it, as a hobbyist 1000 hours is an enormous lifespan for a machine that costs less than 500 bucks. Honestly i maybe used the machine 100hours in the last 3 years.
Hi can you run windows 10 or Mac book on the k40
Corel Laser is compatible with win 10
Hi thanks a lot
Late reply, but I run K40 Whisperer and Inkscape on my Mac for an Orion K40. It takes a little bit of technical know-how to get K40 Whisperer working because it is a Python script on Mac.
15kV and water bottle is nice combo ;)
Hey. Wo kommst du eigentlich her? Komme aus Bayern und hab neben mir einen K40. Kennst du die Videos der Leute, die den Laser in ein Acrylglasgehäuse (kristallklar) umbauen? Soll auch den Laser abhalten...
Ich lebe in den USA komme aber aus Luxembourg. Acrylglas müsste die angemessene schutzklasse haben, da bezahlt man für eine din A4 grosse platte gerne mal 150€. Wie im video gesagt ist es nicht nur die direkte Laserstrahlung die gefährlich ist sondern auch reflektiertes laserlicht und UV strahlung. Letztere wird durch normales klares acryllglas nicht gefiltert.
Hey. Hast du die laser-brille von HB? Überlege mir auch sie zu kaufen?
I’m definitely not going to get a k40 anymore.
These concerns are true for all other types of high power laser engravers. These machines are very useful, but these amount of power requires safety. That's all.
Never blind again. why is there so much dark humor? and is everybody ok with it?
Should reupload video without the awful music. Could not listen to it.
your hand movements at the end of the video are uncanny. I would do less of that in future videos as it is distracting.
this guy is talking about od ratings with an 10500nm infrared co2 laser XD hahahaha. anything transparant is completely NOT transparant to that laser. the ONLY way the laser is going to hit your eye when looking through that window is if it melts through completely.
it doesn't block other light though. so you can get welders eye from the uv emitted from the glowing wood for example.
Disgusting number of ads. As interesting as this is, I will switch to another video when the next ad pauses the playback.
Unfortunately RUclips now adds automated breaks...
Well there are ways around this. Adblockers mostly block ads, as do alternative apps.