I might be completely off on this, but I thought it was the other way around? I agree, lean causes higher combustion temps. However I thought rich "exhaust " caused the pipe to glow? Assuming it's unburned fuel in the hot exhaust that was burning and causing the glow? Also , I think I agree with him describing the need to feather the throttle to gain rpm and speed. Also that wot was decent but needed refining. I think he's over fueling until boost builds. I think the turbo is actually a restriction in air flow until it boost. It seems to me, by the video, that almost 3/4 speed is when it starts to build boost and come alive. I think he needs less fuel down low and more fuel up high in the rpm. Needs a fuel regulator controlled by a boost signal. Then it would RIP through all rpms. I think with the current fuel systems and spark control the best he can hope for is either a quick take off, or a high top end. I don't think he can do too much better then, one or the other with the current set up. If I'm wrong. I'm interested in your understanding and explanation. I like to learn as much as the next gear head. Lol thanks.
@@jamesmullen4308 that is an interesting theory normally leaner is hotter. Because there is more oxygen, it will burn hotter. Thats the same with cutting steel. You have a small pit with some argon gas and a lot of oxygen. This gives you a very hot and concentrated flame.
@@gerritslurink2852 lean is hotter. That's why you burn up a piston going to lean. But timing, jetting, burn time, spark all play a roll in a pipe glowing. I would never judge jetting off of a pipe glow. That does not give you the right information to adjust the jetting.
It also happens on turbocharged vehicles due to the heat build up and back pressure before the head unit, rotaries are even more notorious for this due to the engine design( most are straight shots out the port directly after combustion) but egt monitoring and tuning by egt would be very handy, also that turbo is probably undersized for that engine as a single rotor 3 faces making it equivalent to a 3 cylinder and whatever cc it is displaced at it moves per rotor face
i would recommend using a bigger tube for intake manifold to give it little bit of air space to help with the pulses, and yeah you need to tune that carb alot as well
@@Twankiejones yes but but it fires 123,123,123. Other engines with multiple cylinders/rotors make more pulses in 1 minute(just using a minute for reference) than this thing. So it builds boost a little faster and smoother.
Ehhhh mr beard good to see ya here man. I love your channel too, it’s cool to have watched u, also build break repeat and cars and cameras grow through the past years till now. All of u have new shops ur setups are so much nicer and the builds are awesome from all of you. Great work to all of you guys!
A couple of ideas for y'all. Since you're turbo oil reservoir is so small anyhow you could use a small automotive oil cooler for a reservoir and gain some cooling. Install a pressure switch to cut the oil pump off at say 20 PSI and back on at 10 or 15 PSI I bet with a little searching you can find something " off the shelf " that would work. Another idea is to use a larger heater core for an intercooler , they should be good for at least 25 to 30 lbs. of pressure.
theres no point of a intercooler if its draw through system because the fuel will cool the air charge. Also a intercooler will Not work and can explode because fuel will build up and if it backfires the intercooler is like a gas tank with compressed air.
@@DatBlueHusky I have seen intercoolers on cars with drawthrough turbo and centrifugal supercharger setups , I guess it worked 35 years ago but don't now because it is oldfashond or something
@@DatBlueHusky rite because this stuff didn't exist before your generation invented it on the internet 10 or so years ago. I am not saying it was safe but I have seen it in person with My own eyes.
you will need to make a "boost capacitor" on the intake for a single rotor/piston engine like that, it needs to be 3x to 4x the capacity of engine, so 200ish cc's you need the intake to have at least 600cc to 800cc of volume. boostedbois went through the same problem with their shopping go-kart
You need plenum between turbo and intake port, for single cylinder it should be (if i remember correctly) 4x engine displacement, so the boost can build up. And get a bigger air filter, that one is very restrictive
If you dont want the boost needle to jump so much, add a brass tube inline and crimp it to the moment the needle stops jumping as much. Saw a video where a guy turboed a hecking welder of all things. That worked for him.
on the long straight it seemed to hit a fuel wall you might try drilling your main jets unless you were off throttle but sounded to flatten out and not nearly high enough RPM for a rotary.
either an oil filled boost gauge or put an inline small fuel filter on the boost gauge to smooth out the vibrations. it looks out that engine is eating all the boost that turbo can give :)
those turbos are journal bearings and need at least a few more PSI than the boost pressure you run in order to not damage themselves. So if you want to run 7psi of boost, you need to find a way of supplying at least 10psi of hot oil to the turbo, and youll need a way of cooling this oil as well. I wish I could find a turbo as small as the vz21 that was dual ballbearing so it could use less oil pressue, seems like the smallest ballbearing turbos out there are from a subaru.
can you put it on a lathe an make it take dual bearings ? idk how much room they have inside the the bearings to sit on or maybe Skinner bearings to fit two
If that boost gauge is reading then its not building boost. The -20 to 0 is it pulling vacuum, that open port is just a big boost leak. Also the needle is going move around being attached to handlebars with all the vibration.
Here's a thought, a power jet kicks in later on a 2 stroke when it gets into it's powerband right? So could it in theory kick in under boost when the intake vacuum has increased? I get the idea this might help with drivability when it's not compensating for boost. I'm open to all criticism btw
Great build, I might suggest adjusting the Weights and Spring in the Primary clutch, the balance is HP reliant. If the weights are to heavy, you have trouble with less rpms in the top end, and premature engagement in the low end, especially if the spring is to soft.. it will engage the belt before the engine in the powerband.. Try talking to EPI about different racing set-ups for the type of primary clutch and secondary clutch you are using. Also, the secondary clutch handles the torque any way you want, with the angle of the helix, coupled with the tension on the spring, it can be changed to accommodate a much better launch and pull throughout the powerband, kind of like a spring-loaded gearbox.
Fun fact: The front spindles and control arms (once shortened substantially make for great go kart front suspension with a golf cart steering rack. Split the ATV frame in half and widen it to make your pedal box area.
You mentioned the turbo use to be internally waste gated. You removed the top portion but did you weld the section where the gate would open on the exhaust housing? That may help with creating boost.
So on a boost gauge there's vacuum= numbers under 0 and boost= numbers after the zero. So at idle your only making vacuum that's why the needle is at the 20 under the 0 and when you give it gas and it's only hitting 0 its making just enough boost to level out the vacuum in the intake. Therefore it needs more booostttt, tho I'm not sure how your going to do that with no wastegate. food for thought, I hope this helps because this is such a cool project
If oil pump is too much then a restricter or bleed circuit should help. A tee firing and hose. Have to play around with the size of the tee and hose though. Any better ideas.
Great idea.RedBeardsGarage uses a 'T'and has a shut-off valve that he closes part way to adjust flow for fuel and it bleeds off excess pressure back into the tank.
you could get a blow thru carb so you can put carb on engine and hook turbo before carb that will help with fuel loss to motor right now your motor is getting the left over atomized fuel so now actual fuel there or add a small jet at motor that will use the air pressure to pull fuel in from the vacuum
I'd definitely throw a slightly larger turbo on. Those engines like larger turbos compared to piston engines. Look at rob damhs videos. I'm not an expert but I think it may be because essentially they fire three times per one RPM and a piston engine each piston fires once. It uses. More air at the same RPM as a similar displacement Piston engine. I'm not 100% positive on this tho not an expert or an engineer
Put the carb behind the turbo and not before... No need to compress the fuel with it😉 Also put a bigger jet in it. Somthing like +10% in size should do the trick
Your boost gauge is fine. They need a restrictor to slow the needle movement. Stick a brass slug in the boost gauge pipe with a 1mm hole in it and u will see how much smoother the gauge reacts.
Possibly the weights and spring in the Primary clutch and the Helix, buttons or rollers and spring tension setting maybe even a stronger spring in the secondary clutch.
With no blow off u will blow out the seal for sure motors not gonna last long need to talk to someone experienced and most likely your not making no boost been down that road ive done it with many different motors and piping is always the problem. the added back pressure is what ur feeling most likely learned from drag racing back in 90s the size pipe makes big difference and the difference from draw to blow through on the carb good try keep it up you will get it eventually but not without some major head aches.
If you reduce the size of the boost gauge hose it will read steadier. I'm talking wd40 straw size. Even if you silicone a section of the hose with some thin wire that you can pull out when it's set...
It's a gasoline engine. It has a throttle plate. Meaning there is going to be a vacuum. Untill the throttle plate is wide open. It has 20 in/mg at idle. If your showing zero boost on the gauge at wide open throttle you have no boost. It's not 20 lbs of boost. That's why there is two different units. The bouncing gauge is usual on a single cylinder engine. Use a liquid filled gauge to fix this. Check for boost leaks.
Maybe try to rig up a transmission from a Chinese 125 4 speed or 150cc 5 speed I think it was removing the crank and use a Jack shaft and connect the rotory with the transmission with a chain on the flywheel side
Be interested to see how the turbo performs as from my experience most wankel engine would want a bigger turbo and i am sure lots of tuning ahead with bigger jets, better intake etc. Keep it up
am i the only one that think the carburetor should be put behind the turbo? or am i dumb for thinking that? also, you should put the turbo up front if thats possible so that while driving it forces more air into the turbo
Your exhaust was glowing at the end of the second run meaning its too lean. You gotta put a bigger main jet in it
I might be completely off on this, but I thought it was the other way around? I agree, lean causes higher combustion temps. However I thought rich "exhaust " caused the pipe to glow? Assuming it's unburned fuel in the hot exhaust that was burning and causing the glow? Also , I think I agree with him describing the need to feather the throttle to gain rpm and speed. Also that wot was decent but needed refining. I think he's over fueling until boost builds. I think the turbo is actually a restriction in air flow until it boost. It seems to me, by the video, that almost 3/4 speed is when it starts to build boost and come alive. I think he needs less fuel down low and more fuel up high in the rpm. Needs a fuel regulator controlled by a boost signal. Then it would RIP through all rpms. I think with the current fuel systems and spark control the best he can hope for is either a quick take off, or a high top end. I don't think he can do too much better then, one or the other with the current set up. If I'm wrong. I'm interested in your understanding and explanation. I like to learn as much as the next gear head. Lol thanks.
@@jamesmullen4308 that is an interesting theory normally leaner is hotter. Because there is more oxygen, it will burn hotter. Thats the same with cutting steel. You have a small pit with some argon gas and a lot of oxygen. This gives you a very hot and concentrated flame.
@@gerritslurink2852 lean is hotter. That's why you burn up a piston going to lean. But timing, jetting, burn time, spark all play a roll in a pipe glowing. I would never judge jetting off of a pipe glow. That does not give you the right information to adjust the jetting.
Drill
It also happens on turbocharged vehicles due to the heat build up and back pressure before the head unit, rotaries are even more notorious for this due to the engine design( most are straight shots out the port directly after combustion) but egt monitoring and tuning by egt would be very handy, also that turbo is probably undersized for that engine as a single rotor 3 faces making it equivalent to a 3 cylinder and whatever cc it is displaced at it moves per rotor face
Definitely take that tiny air filter off that will help a ton and it does need a larger jet as the exhaust was glowing red
A glowing header isn’t enough info to tune a carb
@@humpty6838 it’s enough to know she’s to lean period. Doesn’t matter if it’s carb or fuel injection
yup props to this guy
Yeah next up fuel injection liquid cooled
Yeah too lean
Turbos and rotary engines go together like peanut butter and jam. 😎
DIY Turbo Rotary ATV?! That's so awesome!
Looks like it might be time to gear up the atv now that you're hitting max speed so soon!
i would recommend using a bigger tube for intake manifold to give it little bit of air space to help with the pulses, and yeah you need to tune that carb alot as well
Well you have to realize this thing is like a 3 cylinder almost because it does fire 3 times in one revolution
@@Twankiejones yes but again for a rotary it will help alot and the turbo, having a tiny tube isnt always the best
@@DatBlueHusky it’s not gonna hurt if that’s all the bigger it is coming out the turbo
@@Twankiejones yes but but it fires 123,123,123. Other engines with multiple cylinders/rotors make more pulses in 1 minute(just using a minute for reference) than this thing. So it builds boost a little faster and smoother.
Exactly, needs SOME kind of plenum, not just a a straight, pinner little tube directly into chamber
I’m going to keep an eye on you boys. When ever where ever your building designing I’m sure it’s going to be top notch 😎
Awesome build as always!
Ehhhh mr beard good to see ya here man. I love your channel too, it’s cool to have watched u, also build break repeat and cars and cameras grow through the past years till now. All of u have new shops ur setups are so much nicer and the builds are awesome from all of you. Great work to all of you guys!
Red the stuff above it is forrreal
I can't wait to find one of these engines to swap into my ruckus! Definitely won't need the turbo though hahaha!
Awesome I love small turbos on small engines. It always makes for interesting problems.
A couple of ideas for y'all.
Since you're turbo oil reservoir is so small anyhow you could use a small automotive oil cooler for a reservoir and gain some cooling.
Install a pressure switch to cut the oil pump off at say 20 PSI and back on at 10 or 15 PSI I bet with a little searching you can find something " off the shelf " that would work.
Another idea is to use a larger heater core for an intercooler , they should be good for at least 25 to 30 lbs. of pressure.
theres no point of a intercooler if its draw through system because the fuel will cool the air charge. Also a intercooler will Not work and can explode because fuel will build up and if it backfires the intercooler is like a gas tank with compressed air.
@@DatBlueHusky I have seen intercoolers on cars with drawthrough turbo and centrifugal supercharger setups , I guess it worked 35 years ago but don't now because it is oldfashond or something
@@NotMeeither you sure? Because theres no such thing that i can see of. Its all blow through setups with intercoolers
@@DatBlueHusky rite because this stuff didn't exist before your generation invented it on the internet 10 or so years ago.
I am not saying it was safe but I have seen it in person with My own eyes.
hey guys, this might sound a little lame but I've always wanted you guys to see what yall could do to a 2-stroke bike kit
you will need to make a "boost capacitor" on the intake for a single rotor/piston engine like that, it needs to be 3x to 4x the capacity of engine, so 200ish cc's you need the intake to have at least 600cc to 800cc of volume. boostedbois went through the same problem with their shopping go-kart
You need plenum between turbo and intake port, for single cylinder it should be (if i remember correctly) 4x engine displacement, so the boost can build up. And get a bigger air filter, that one is very restrictive
This is bad ass. Who don’t love a Dorito power quad.
Everything is better with a turbo. Keep it up! 🤘🏻
I love your builds, sirs
Dont forgot to check the gearing. Your 4 wheeler tops out to soon. It hits max mph to soon
My favorite welder of all times I swear to God
If you dont want the boost needle to jump so much, add a brass tube inline and crimp it to the moment the needle stops jumping as much. Saw a video where a guy turboed a hecking welder of all things. That worked for him.
this is really a cool build rotary engines are stright up cool
How could it get cooler
on the long straight it seemed to hit a fuel wall you might try drilling your main jets unless you were off throttle but sounded to flatten out and not nearly high enough RPM for a rotary.
either an oil filled boost gauge or put an inline small fuel filter on the boost gauge to smooth out the vibrations.
it looks out that engine is eating all the boost that turbo can give :)
1 atmosphere in the intake is better than the vacuum is would normally have lol
I think you should get the plastics for that if You dont have them already, and make some custom graphics to fit the "rotary" style
Bigger air filter will help the turbo open up that small filter restricting it
Exciting!
Sweet.Good work guys.That's going to scream once you fine tune it.
Dammn that is sick I want to build mine too soon. I love rotary engines
You guys don’t stop🔥💯
Congratulations nice work.
Turbotary, I'm literally only watching this so that way I can say the word turbotary. Mow power baby
those turbos are journal bearings and need at least a few more PSI than the boost pressure you run in order to not damage themselves. So if you want to run 7psi of boost, you need to find a way of supplying at least 10psi of hot oil to the turbo, and youll need a way of cooling this oil as well. I wish I could find a turbo as small as the vz21 that was dual ballbearing so it could use less oil pressue, seems like the smallest ballbearing turbos out there are from a subaru.
can you put it on a lathe an make it take dual bearings ? idk how much room they have inside the the bearings to sit on or maybe Skinner bearings to fit two
Brup brup brup… the best. Wild sounding on an atv.
Ditch the turbo for an AMR 300 supercharger🤘 compact, no lag, no oil lines. Winning
Awesome video guys. It defiantly looks faster and I bet it has more torque as well.
If that boost gauge is reading then its not building boost. The -20 to 0 is it pulling vacuum, that open port is just a big boost leak. Also the needle is going move around being attached to handlebars with all the vibration.
Running the engine slightly rich on the mixture will give you a cooler running engine . running it lean will increase the running temp .
Here's a thought, a power jet kicks in later on a 2 stroke when it gets into it's powerband right? So could it in theory kick in under boost when the intake vacuum has increased? I get the idea this might help with drivability when it's not compensating for boost. I'm open to all criticism btw
Great build, I might suggest adjusting the Weights and Spring in the Primary clutch, the balance is HP reliant.
If the weights are to heavy, you have trouble with less rpms in the top end, and premature engagement in the low end, especially if the spring is to soft.. it will engage the belt before the engine in the powerband..
Try talking to EPI about different racing set-ups for the type of primary clutch and secondary clutch you are using.
Also, the secondary clutch handles the torque any way you want, with the angle of the helix, coupled with the tension on the spring, it can be changed to accommodate a much better launch and pull throughout the powerband, kind of like a spring-loaded gearbox.
Fun fact: The front spindles and control arms (once shortened substantially make for great go kart front suspension with a golf cart steering rack. Split the ATV frame in half and widen it to make your pedal box area.
Hey, Engineer, you "Turn it down" on a lathe. Not "lathe it down on a lathe" haha. Good job, love all your stuff. Had to give you a hard time.
40mph doesn't seem like a good baseline for that much capacity. Gear it slightly lower maybe? My 125cc does 65 70 at a push 👀
Wow, thats quick.
You mentioned the turbo use to be internally waste gated. You removed the top portion but did you weld the section where the gate would open on the exhaust housing? That may help with creating boost.
You definitely can hear the turbo spool so it's making some amount of boost. I would probably imagine 2-5lbs at most though.
Wish one of these engines would fit under the fiberglass one my Owasso trike
great show guys keep the shows coming
MO POWER BABY!
Draw through setups are very picky to intake restrictions take the tiny air filter off and ill bet it makes alot more steam.
So on a boost gauge there's vacuum= numbers under 0 and boost= numbers after the zero. So at idle your only making vacuum that's why the needle is at the 20 under the 0 and when you give it gas and it's only hitting 0 its making just enough boost to level out the vacuum in the intake. Therefore it needs more booostttt, tho I'm not sure how your going to do that with no wastegate. food for thought, I hope this helps because this is such a cool project
This is awesome!! It would be cool if you had different sprockets like a mountain bike for “banging gears”.
I think a mini intercooler would help hold more boost stable and available
If oil pump is too much then a restricter or bleed circuit should help. A tee firing and hose. Have to play around with the size of the tee and hose though. Any better ideas.
Great idea.RedBeardsGarage uses a 'T'and has a shut-off valve that he closes part way to adjust flow for fuel and it bleeds off excess pressure back into the tank.
Thanks for the comment! We didn’t think of that, we’ll be putting a tee on it tomorrow
you could get a blow thru carb so you can put carb on engine and hook turbo before carb that will help with fuel loss to motor right now your motor is getting the left over atomized fuel so now actual fuel there or add a small jet at motor that will use the air pressure to pull fuel in from the vacuum
I think you may have some more gains and less throttle issues if you put the carb on the turbo intake outlet instead of the intake side
The carb would be restricting it
I'd definitely throw a slightly larger turbo on. Those engines like larger turbos compared to piston engines. Look at rob damhs videos. I'm not an expert but I think it may be because essentially they fire three times per one RPM and a piston engine each piston fires once. It uses. More air at the same RPM as a similar displacement Piston engine. I'm not 100% positive on this tho not an expert or an engineer
Put the carb behind the turbo and not before... No need to compress the fuel with it😉 Also put a bigger jet in it. Somthing like +10% in size should do the trick
What about the citi car? I’m old and remember them lol
a compound mini super charger with the turbo would be sick
Your boost gauge is fine. They need a restrictor to slow the needle movement. Stick a brass slug in the boost gauge pipe with a 1mm hole in it and u will see how much smoother the gauge reacts.
Adding backpressure definitely helps rotary engines start.
Red Citicar EV at the beginning, have any plans for it??
We got big plans for it!
I wonder if peak power is still the same rpm, would the cvt pucks need any tuning?
Possibly the weights and spring in the Primary clutch and the Helix, buttons or rollers and spring tension setting maybe even a stronger spring in the secondary clutch.
Ok, now put that same engine in a Sachs G3 moped. 😄
Seriously! You'll have THE ONLY ONE ON RUclips, and moped fans will go nuts!!!!
You need to study up on your secondary pulley you'll get that worker you go three times as fast
We wont talk about your welds😜
The good news is that it gets off the vacuum
Did you get your door locks fixed?. I didn’t see those C and C guys breaking in again.
you gotta jet the exhaust door out the intake cold air compressor
jet air :)
With no blow off u will blow out the seal for sure motors not gonna last long need to talk to someone experienced and most likely your not making no boost been down that road ive done it with many different motors and piping is always the problem. the added back pressure is what ur feeling most likely learned from drag racing back in 90s the size pipe makes big difference and the difference from draw to blow through on the carb good try keep it up you will get it eventually but not without some major head aches.
He got a wigeon irl 😂😂😂
It is super duper LEAN when it is breaking up at idle and part throttle. It is running though. Rotary’s do run better with boost though
Are these running 2 stroke mix?
If you reduce the size of the boost gauge hose it will read steadier. I'm talking wd40 straw size. Even if you silicone a section of the hose with some thin wire that you can pull out when it's set...
Definitely feel like u need a bigger air filter not getting enough air
That a pmw series carb? I’d love to know, please and thanks. :D
Would a blow off alve help prevent you from hurting the apex and side seals in that rotary
justb a question i was wondering
put a drip valve on the empire exploder
Do you have the measurements for the white go kart you built a couple years back?
It's a gasoline engine. It has a throttle plate. Meaning there is going to be a vacuum. Untill the throttle plate is wide open. It has 20 in/mg at idle. If your showing zero boost on the gauge at wide open throttle you have no boost. It's not 20 lbs of boost. That's why there is two different units. The bouncing gauge is usual on a single cylinder engine. Use a liquid filled gauge to fix this. Check for boost leaks.
Won't a expansion chamber on the ex give more power
hello, why did you use 3 different oil pumps in the 3 turbo projects you did?
Maybe try to rig up a transmission from a Chinese 125 4 speed or 150cc 5 speed I think it was removing the crank and use a Jack shaft and connect the rotory with the transmission with a chain on the flywheel side
What camera do u guys use, the quality is bada** 👌🏾 thank you
👍
Be interested to see how the turbo performs as from my experience most wankel engine would want a bigger turbo and i am sure lots of tuning ahead with bigger jets, better intake etc.
Keep it up
Use the brake to regulate your wheelie. Steady throttle control and use the brake. For God Sakes Put Heel Guards On It.
:-)
Where can I find a rotary pull start motor I’d like to do a build as well let me know please 🙏🏽🤝
rotary engines love boost
Y'all should make it street legal with dirt legal and put street tires on it
intercooler!
I didnt know young gravy was an engineer.
am i the only one that think the carburetor should be put behind the turbo? or am i dumb for thinking that?
also, you should put the turbo up front if thats possible so that while driving it forces more air into the turbo
Suzuki 230 frames are great at doing wheelies putting that much power on one you where kinda asking for that
What was that motor on before you guys had it
You “turned” it on the lathe, you didnt lathe it up lol
Make an oil restrictor on the turbo like it calls for
-20 is 20 inches of vacuum, 0 is 0 pounds of boost