What I love about this dude is that he is smart, has design background, and doesn't give two shits about your opinion. Love the geometry, love the math, love the reality! Thanks dude!
Except in this case his math is wrong, because he's only accounting for 1 pair of arms when in reality there's 3. So while 1 pair has low x/y accuracy due to it being close to vertical the other 2 pairs are close to horizontal and therefore ensure very high x/y accuracy. (That said, he's right about the fact that arms being closer to horizontal will require very high speed.)
Been contemplating the Q5 for a while, then I saw your videos about it and it became irresistible. I finally pulled the trigger on it last night and can hardly wait for it to show up!
@@alecumihnea Still going, still loving it! I ran through a few different mods, but as it is now the only mods are a relocated extruder that sits on one of the front extrusions at an angle, using a bracket I designed. It allows for a shorter filament path and less harsh bends in the bowden tube. I also made a bracket to hold a spool directly under the extruder. Then I also put on a BMG clone. With those two mods, I'm able to crank it up to ~160mm/s with no underextrusion, and probably even higher, but then I'd expect ghosting and other issues to arise. As it is it's perfect for quickly turning out parts that still need .4 resolution and can be printed in PLA. I love the thing, and would highly recommend it!
Should check out the flsun super racer. Linear rails......need i say more? The lack of locating pins on the vertical arms are probably one of the few detractors from it being a solid design.
You could even add a hall sensor behind the sensor, under the button to prevent heating up the hotend in case the probe is not in storage. Awsome content.
Deltas are so mesmerizing to watch. The mechanics of these printers aren't as unforgiving as one might think. There's software compensation to handle rod length and tower squareness during calibrations.
The pause emergency button is a nice touch! But is it working even when the printer is not printing? I ask because I have a problem with my printer, sometimes it fails probing the bed and it starts printing without leveling, smashing the nozzle on the bed ruining it. My idea was to wire a button like that directly to the AC wires, as normally what I do is to reach the button on the back of the printer to cut the power. Obviously it would be a beefier 10A capable button!
Is it possible to make the original program be able to scroll around the sd card files by backspacing to the most recent file instead of having to step forward through all the previous prints.
On the rod joints. Have you thought about trying ball & socket joints? I did that for my Kossel Mini after trying the magnetic joints. The magnetic joints do detach easily. Not sure how well the ball & socket joints will work for the speeds you print at as I normally don't print that fast but the seem to work well for me. They have hardly no play at all in them. I designed the ones I use myself. Printed them out with my resin printer. I also made a jig to use for gluing them to together and attached the jig to the back of the rear 2020 Extrusion on the printer to stay for permanent use if and when I make repairs to them. I did that because they are a little fragile and I have broken two so far when removing them. I need to thicken them up a little but haven't got around to it yet. Maybe also used a less fragile resin for them. Anyways you should check out that type of joint if you have yet. I also don't use a leveling sensor on my Kossel Mini. I never had good luck with auto bed leveling on my printers. So I designed my own bed mounts for my Kossel Mini which has a pretty stiff leveling system and try to use a bed that won't warp much at all under heat. I never heat my bed above 80° on it. At least not yet. My bed uses a aluminum heated bed with a glass bed on top that has a magnetic flex plate attached to it. I insulated it with cork underneath. Surprisedly it heats up well through the glass, magnetic sheet, and flex plate. The bed doesn't really mov or warp at all. So I have not needed to relevel it since.
I am just curious if i remove the rods and put in a longer rod set would it work normally as it after calibrating and obviously it gonna loose print hight
No. The ideal orientation for the rods is 45°. Dead center. All six rods are at this angle. To accomplish your line of reasoning, you would increase the entire frame and rod lengths without increasing the bed size.
More pro magnetic joints are for sure double as good, I never had problems with mine disconnecting due to accelerations. (Magnets are definitely superior for accuracy) Whats more dangerous is that the magnets can disconnect after a crash, which is actually good for protecting the heatbreak, but also drags a 200+°C hotend around the printer area, which is not so good. That said, after a pretty severe skip, delta's tend crash over and over into the part and print bed. I'm working on an inverted delta on which will hopefully have detection for disconnected magnets. The rods and gantries are all metal, the gantry runs insulated from the the tower, and I will insulate the effector from the rods. This should allow for an electric circuit through all the rod, by which you can see a detached magnet as an open circuit. Also, In my experience, bed leveling after delta calibration makes little sense (when not using different build plates). Delta calibration assumes the print bed to be perfectly flat, after which it calibrates the towers to match that assumption. So you're probing a bed you calibrated as flat. If your bed is not flat from the start you can still get a good looking first layer while you for example print cones instead of cylinders along Z.
6:00 your calculations only account for 1 arm, but there's always 3 (pairs). The speed part you show is correct, but the accuracy is not. Let me explain. In your middle sketch (where the arm is almost horizontal) the needed speed is greatest, but the accuracy is also greatest. A very slight defect in the belt will only cause 1/20 as much defect at the nozzle. So we get very good accuracy. But, as you correctly explained, 20x speed is required. Now, in your rightmost sketch the belt error is indeed getting amplified, just as you describe, but this is almost only in the z-direction (which means that errors will make the gantry tilt), because the other two arm pairs at this point are closer to horizontal and therefore ensure very high x/y-accuracy.
So I might be thinking about it wrong but with traumatic stepper drivers in like a closed loop stepper setup would not help the differences in speed and keep everything aligned if I'm saying that right
I dialed in my flsun QQ-s pro duet3d reprap 3.3b2 upgrade.. its printing, calibrating, and I was doing last measurement on the filament extrution, and the bowden tube adapter pops off - damn cheap adapter that broke.. so now my bowden tube is loose.. and I can't print this weekend.. ordered new bowden tube adapter from denmark (2 of them), and hopefully my friend who has a stratasys 1200 can print a tightening clamp for me tomorrow in abs to mabye - just mabye keep the damn tube in place this weekend :) :(
Than it looks like it's not a good beginner printer, if they isn't precise enough to print cylinders 🤔 also without modifications? What are the costs for the mods, would it be not cheaper eventually to buy a other printer, it's not easy for a beginner, getting more frustrated about the printer, only from listening that's not so good, I'm think g if it would be better to cancel my order for the Q5. 😕🤔
Im sorry but your comment is wrong, I have a qq-s pro and after alot of calibration my cal cube is at 20.02, and can remove a .02 pin from a calibration test. They just take alot of time to calibrate to get accurate.
Now do a calibration cube at the edge of the bed. Better yet, print a square frame that covers the entire bed. Test for square corners and straight sides. Check for racking of the frame (parallelogram). You will see the errors appear.
As far as I'm aware, Duet has focused on Delta printers more than any of the other firmwares. Given that attention/focus I would think the best results can be achieved on Duet. However as all 3 are open source, it's thoroughly possible that all the advantages of Duet have by now been ported onto Klipper and Marlin.
Fyi, I'm finicky about mechanical tolerances and plan good mechanical level. With that said I see the value of auto levelers (speed/repeatability). Designing my first printer now. My current thoughts are continuity for bed leveling. Suppose a sewing machine needle affixed to the heat block, not exactly in line with nozzle but right next it. It will ground via your safety grounded heat block : ). Then an isolated conductive surface on bed (was thinking prototype aquanet as glue to hold tin foil on bed (check different tin foil thicknesses ; ). With a simple circuit (resistor and volt source) you can trigger a high or low (as needed) for your printer mobo... the existing auto level software shouldn't know different. Maybe one day I'll build an optical one but there's really no need for that accuracy with any designs I've seen. May be mandatory when I make a 5 axis delta.... longggg way off! Good vidy's, ty. edit/add get some of those tiny neo magnetics and just pu one on top of each ball... simple, quick and effective.... or so I think... enlighten me if not please.
As discussed in this video at the 3:20 mark, you won't ever get the best part accuracy from any Delta style printer. Regarding your grounded sewing machine needle idea, you can just use an aluminum bed like I did here: ruclips.net/video/iNMt2MYfrF8/видео.html
Thanks for making this video. I was just about to jump on the QQ-S Pro. Guess I'll wait to see what the SR has. I need the bigger build plate. Also, you should add your patreon info to the description of your videos. I would have looked into subscribing if I knew where to find your page.
I know you dont like my printer and im not a 5 dollar patron Yet But will the fan shroud and some of the other mod work on my qqs pro i already have pause built in lol im a newbie one month in qqs pro is my first defiantly not my last
Could you please consider the upgrade files for some amount on e.g. MyMiniFactory? I know you don't make them to profit from those designs, but the simple fact is when people look for upgrades they check sites like Thingiverse. Putting those files on a site like that would mean a lot more people could discover your upgrades and also your channel. Even though I don't like Thingiverse when I put y printer profile there instead of GitHub I get much more downloads there. So putting files where people search for them could be a good idea, you could also add in the description that Patreon supporters get them as well, so people will choose Patreon instead of that site.
@@420247paul Yeah I know, the problem is most users of FLSun Q5 don't know there are great updates for their printer on his Patreon, because when they search Thingiverse or similar nothing comes up. If he had those files up on those sites, even if they cost more than his Patreon, more people would be able to enjoy those upgrades, especially the fan duct.
1, his files, his rules. Seems that putting them in the patreon incentivizes him and I would rather have more videos than files. 2, they're actually not that hard to copy from the video, plus making your own improvements and customization Along the way makes it worth every second
Matt, have you checked out Precision Piezo? I think you'd like the design. I use one on my Anycubic delta because I got sick of using the detachable probe. The system basically has a piezo transducer sitting just on top of the hotend's heatsink and when the nozzle touches the bed the transducer gets slightly deformed and sends a sensor signal back to the mainboard to indicate contact. There are mounting designs to suit many different printers on Thingiverse et al.
Hi just a couple of suggestions. Check out: ruclips.net/video/65FVQ1jArME/видео.html for cooling comparison. Berdair is perfect for deltas. Second is for a magnetic version, Number of years back it was not easy to get good magnets so some people had an idea. Normal nonmagnetic balls in plastic socket with a "third arm" in the middle which in actuality is just a steel wire keeping the whole thing in tension and preventing the sockets from coming apart. complicated but if the geometry is good should be even lighter and 0 lash. Have not seen any done recently i suppose because sufficiently good magnets are cheap and available now and you can just slow down...
WTF are you talking about.. i print precision parts on this all the time.. Square parts are square and my circle parts are circle. i dont know wtf your smoking dude.. but i also use a SR not a Q5
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Oh at last! Ty for moving on from the darn sensor, btw it has been awesome to see you so often!
Keep the good content!
What I love about this dude is that he is smart, has design background, and doesn't give two shits about your opinion. Love the geometry, love the math, love the reality! Thanks dude!
Except in this case his math is wrong, because he's only accounting for 1 pair of arms when in reality there's 3. So while 1 pair has low x/y accuracy due to it being close to vertical the other 2 pairs are close to horizontal and therefore ensure very high x/y accuracy. (That said, he's right about the fact that arms being closer to horizontal will require very high speed.)
Been contemplating the Q5 for a while, then I saw your videos about it and it became irresistible. I finally pulled the trigger on it last night and can hardly wait for it to show up!
How is it going?
@@alecumihnea Still going, still loving it! I ran through a few different mods, but as it is now the only mods are a relocated extruder that sits on one of the front extrusions at an angle, using a bracket I designed. It allows for a shorter filament path and less harsh bends in the bowden tube. I also made a bracket to hold a spool directly under the extruder. Then I also put on a BMG clone. With those two mods, I'm able to crank it up to ~160mm/s with no underextrusion, and probably even higher, but then I'd expect ghosting and other issues to arise.
As it is it's perfect for quickly turning out parts that still need .4 resolution and can be printed in PLA. I love the thing, and would highly recommend it!
Should check out the flsun super racer. Linear rails......need i say more? The lack of locating pins on the vertical arms are probably one of the few detractors from it being a solid design.
You could even add a hall sensor behind the sensor, under the button to prevent heating up the hotend in case the probe is not in storage. Awsome content.
Deltas are so mesmerizing to watch. The mechanics of these printers aren't as unforgiving as one might think. There's software compensation to handle rod length and tower squareness during calibrations.
The pause emergency button is a nice touch! But is it working even when the printer is not printing? I ask because I have a problem with my printer, sometimes it fails probing the bed and it starts printing without leveling, smashing the nozzle on the bed ruining it. My idea was to wire a button like that directly to the AC wires, as normally what I do is to reach the button on the back of the printer to cut the power. Obviously it would be a beefier 10A capable button!
Have you tried one of those composite resin print beds
Cool video to find! I just ordered this printer yesterday.
Is it possible to make the original program be able to scroll around the sd card files by backspacing to the most recent file instead of having to step forward through all the previous prints.
We must be around the same age because I was the same growing up and in university haha
What's your opinion on the voron 2.4
Bed level in a state of cooling?
apparently flsun have a new printer coming out at some point. Don't know if they will be replacing the qqs with it but it'll probably be another delta
Yup, they call it SR , short for Speed Racer, supposedly gonna be fast. gotta say i'm curious
On the rod joints. Have you thought about trying ball & socket joints?
I did that for my Kossel Mini after trying the magnetic joints. The magnetic joints do detach easily. Not sure how well the ball & socket joints will work for the speeds you print at as I normally don't print that fast but the seem to work well for me. They have hardly no play at all in them. I designed the ones I use myself. Printed them out with my resin printer. I also made a jig to use for gluing them to together and attached the jig to the back of the rear 2020 Extrusion on the printer to stay for permanent use if and when I make repairs to them. I did that because they are a little fragile and I have broken two so far when removing them. I need to thicken them up a little but haven't got around to it yet. Maybe also used a less fragile resin for them.
Anyways you should check out that type of joint if you have yet.
I also don't use a leveling sensor on my Kossel Mini. I never had good luck with auto bed leveling on my printers. So I designed my own bed mounts for my Kossel Mini which has a pretty stiff leveling system and try to use a bed that won't warp much at all under heat. I never heat my bed above 80° on it. At least not yet. My bed uses a aluminum heated bed with a glass bed on top that has a magnetic flex plate attached to it. I insulated it with cork underneath. Surprisedly it heats up well through the glass, magnetic sheet, and flex plate. The bed doesn't really mov or warp at all. So I have not needed to relevel it since.
I am just curious if i remove the rods and put in a longer rod set would it work normally as it after calibrating and obviously it gonna loose print hight
No. The ideal orientation for the rods is 45°. Dead center. All six rods are at this angle. To accomplish your line of reasoning, you would increase the entire frame and rod lengths without increasing the bed size.
Put TinkSeal in your Heim joints. It will take up some of the lash and add lubrication.
When will the Flsun SR speed racer be available?
Links in the description? Watch this video up here in the corner?
He fools us every time
I sent request to fix it
Apologies. The link in the corner only appears on Desktop, not mobile. I've now placed a link in the description.
@@DesignPrototypeTest oh it does appear but our RUclips overlords have decided it's best to tuck it away under 2 menus in the three dots.
Great video, I like the introduction
More pro magnetic joints are for sure double as good, I never had problems with mine disconnecting due to accelerations. (Magnets are definitely superior for accuracy) Whats more dangerous is that the magnets can disconnect after a crash, which is actually good for protecting the heatbreak, but also drags a 200+°C hotend around the printer area, which is not so good. That said, after a pretty severe skip, delta's tend crash over and over into the part and print bed. I'm working on an inverted delta on which will hopefully have detection for disconnected magnets. The rods and gantries are all metal, the gantry runs insulated from the the tower, and I will insulate the effector from the rods. This should allow for an electric circuit through all the rod, by which you can see a detached magnet as an open circuit. Also, In my experience, bed leveling after delta calibration makes little sense (when not using different build plates). Delta calibration assumes the print bed to be perfectly flat, after which it calibrates the towers to match that assumption. So you're probing a bed you calibrated as flat. If your bed is not flat from the start you can still get a good looking first layer while you for example print cones instead of cylinders along Z.
6:00 your calculations only account for 1 arm, but there's always 3 (pairs). The speed part you show is correct, but the accuracy is not. Let me explain.
In your middle sketch (where the arm is almost horizontal) the needed speed is greatest, but the accuracy is also greatest. A very slight defect in the belt will only cause 1/20 as much defect at the nozzle. So we get very good accuracy. But, as you correctly explained, 20x speed is required.
Now, in your rightmost sketch the belt error is indeed getting amplified, just as you describe, but this is almost only in the z-direction (which means that errors will make the gantry tilt), because the other two arm pairs at this point are closer to horizontal and therefore ensure very high x/y-accuracy.
So I might be thinking about it wrong but with traumatic stepper drivers in like a closed loop stepper setup would not help the differences in speed and keep everything aligned if I'm saying that right
I dialed in my flsun QQ-s pro duet3d reprap 3.3b2 upgrade.. its printing, calibrating, and I was doing last measurement on the filament extrution, and the bowden tube adapter pops off - damn cheap adapter that broke.. so now my bowden tube is loose.. and I can't print this weekend.. ordered new bowden tube adapter from denmark (2 of them), and hopefully my friend who has a stratasys 1200 can print a tightening clamp for me tomorrow in abs to mabye - just mabye keep the damn tube in place this weekend :) :(
because of this Im considering getting a used small cheap ass printer that can print spare parts atleast.
Than it looks like it's not a good beginner printer, if they isn't precise enough to print cylinders 🤔 also without modifications?
What are the costs for the mods, would it be not cheaper eventually to buy a other printer, it's not easy for a beginner, getting more frustrated about the printer, only from listening that's not so good, I'm think g if it would be better to cancel my order for the Q5. 😕🤔
Im sorry but your comment is wrong, I have a qq-s pro and after alot of calibration my cal cube is at 20.02, and can remove a .02 pin from a calibration test. They just take alot of time to calibrate to get accurate.
Now do a calibration cube at the edge of the bed. Better yet, print a square frame that covers the entire bed. Test for square corners and straight sides. Check for racking of the frame (parallelogram). You will see the errors appear.
For a Delta.. Duet 3 or Klipper?
As far as I'm aware, Duet has focused on Delta printers more than any of the other firmwares. Given that attention/focus I would think the best results can be achieved on Duet. However as all 3 are open source, it's thoroughly possible that all the advantages of Duet have by now been ported onto Klipper and Marlin.
I’d personally recommend Klipper, and I know Nitram would recommend it too. If you want to go fast, it’s a no brainer
Klipper, I've wrote the config for the q5 on the Facebook group. search for Gottfried
klipper just for the fact that its cheaper than duet 99% of the time
Thanks for the follow-up
Fyi, I'm finicky about mechanical tolerances and plan good mechanical level. With that said I see the value of auto levelers (speed/repeatability). Designing my first printer now. My current thoughts are continuity for bed leveling. Suppose a sewing machine needle affixed to the heat block, not exactly in line with nozzle but right next it. It will ground via your safety grounded heat block : ). Then an isolated conductive surface on bed (was thinking prototype aquanet as glue to hold tin foil on bed (check different tin foil thicknesses ; ). With a simple circuit (resistor and volt source) you can trigger a high or low (as needed) for your printer mobo... the existing auto level software shouldn't know different. Maybe one day I'll build an optical one but there's really no need for that accuracy with any designs I've seen. May be mandatory when I make a 5 axis delta.... longggg way off! Good vidy's, ty.
edit/add get some of those tiny neo magnetics and just pu one on top of each ball... simple, quick and effective.... or so I think... enlighten me if not please.
As discussed in this video at the 3:20 mark, you won't ever get the best part accuracy from any Delta style printer. Regarding your grounded sewing machine needle idea, you can just use an aluminum bed like I did here: ruclips.net/video/iNMt2MYfrF8/видео.html
@@DesignPrototypeTest yes, prototype for speed tho! And yes, if alumimium bed gtg... I plan on glass. Thanks for the reply. subed
Thanks for making this video. I was just about to jump on the QQ-S Pro. Guess I'll wait to see what the SR has. I need the bigger build plate.
Also, you should add your patreon info to the description of your videos. I would have looked into subscribing if I knew where to find your page.
❤️ Deltas 😊
I know you dont like my printer and im not a 5 dollar patron Yet But will the fan shroud and some of the other mod work on my qqs pro i already have pause built in lol im a newbie one month in qqs pro is my first defiantly not my last
Comment just for the algorithm :)
THANKS!
Could you please consider the upgrade files for some amount on e.g. MyMiniFactory? I know you don't make them to profit from those designs, but the simple fact is when people look for upgrades they check sites like Thingiverse. Putting those files on a site like that would mean a lot more people could discover your upgrades and also your channel.
Even though I don't like Thingiverse when I put y printer profile there instead of GitHub I get much more downloads there. So putting files where people search for them could be a good idea, you could also add in the description that Patreon supporters get them as well, so people will choose Patreon instead of that site.
you have to subscribe for his files
@@420247paul Yeah I know, the problem is most users of FLSun Q5 don't know there are great updates for their printer on his Patreon, because when they search Thingiverse or similar nothing comes up. If he had those files up on those sites, even if they cost more than his Patreon, more people would be able to enjoy those upgrades, especially the fan duct.
1, his files, his rules. Seems that putting them in the patreon incentivizes him and I would rather have more videos than files.
2, they're actually not that hard to copy from the video, plus making your own improvements and customization Along the way makes it worth every second
Great video
Made me forget what i was doing and started to watch batman 😂😂
Matt, have you checked out Precision Piezo? I think you'd like the design. I use one on my Anycubic delta because I got sick of using the detachable probe.
The system basically has a piezo transducer sitting just on top of the hotend's heatsink and when the nozzle touches the bed the transducer gets slightly deformed and sends a sensor signal back to the mainboard to indicate contact. There are mounting designs to suit many different printers on Thingiverse et al.
6 adverts in a 27 min video! My god man
Hi just a couple of suggestions. Check out: ruclips.net/video/65FVQ1jArME/видео.html for cooling comparison. Berdair is perfect for deltas.
Second is for a magnetic version, Number of years back it was not easy to get good magnets so some people had an idea. Normal nonmagnetic balls in plastic socket with a "third arm" in the middle which in actuality is just a steel wire keeping the whole thing in tension and preventing the sockets from coming apart. complicated but if the geometry is good should be even lighter and 0 lash.
Have not seen any done recently i suppose because sufficiently good magnets are cheap and available now and you can just slow down...
WTF are you talking about.. i print precision parts on this all the time..
Square parts are square and my circle parts are circle. i dont know wtf your smoking dude.. but i also use a SR not a Q5
Take a chill pill dude!
the real bottom line is: you should not talk about math and basic trigonometry as you have no idea...
It’s junk
Buy money nice... not! 👎 Abort video!
But it COULD twist which is unfortunate. If they made the bed spin, and allowed the head to twist, there’d be a whole new revolution.