That intro! Loved the data/shoe-off video again, missed these from you. While minor, I'm not surprised the Peg Plus is the "fastest". Interestingly, I believe the ZoomX in the Vomero 17 is the same ZoomX as whats in the VF3/AF3 while the ZoomX in the Peg Plus is the rubberized formula form the SF & I1/2/3. i think that is why once the V17s broke in from me the ZoomX foam just began to spill over the carrier foam, as it does in tat layup.
Thought that might amuse you. I think one "appeal" of the Peg 41 to me is to actually use them and then some. Those who slag them off never seem to actually run in them. As I hopefully showed here you can still add 50g to them with "orthotics" and still go just as well as in the Vomero 17 with all that ZoomX. That said I saw those in a better light and may use them a bit more. I recall you had to abandon them for the "spill over" issue but not yet seen that. You will also be amused to hear that I managed 8.5 miles in the Peg Plus today - longest run for 3 months. At about 6 miles it started to get a bit harder work and maybe even a "bottoming out feeling" but then I thought well of course it will you haven't done more than one 6 mile run in 3 months so nothing is going to run for you! That said I liked them and felt I was at least "running". I think your similar video and my one here do rather illustrate that the differences between shoes are often a lot smaller than you might think and unless a shoe does not fit properly that anything will largely do for most runs. OK on your fastest days/races you don't want to "giveaway" speed by using a "slower" shoe but we have plenty such shoes to choose from for that these days.
@@TimGrose I was very “amused” by the thought of someone actually running in Pegs. “Real” runners don’t do that…. Don’t you know. 🤷🏼♂️ Totally agree, differences in shoes are minor very often…. It comes down to what feels good to run in. I know what I like, definitely. It is good to see that data confirms that sometimes though. I did a 12k workout in the Peg Plus this morning. 8k at steady effort (4:40/km, so not very hard)…. But the Pegasus Plus felt wonderful and my feet had no issues. Recovery aspects of ZoomX post run are clear too. That’s the differences to me. Capable of the same paces in both Pegs, but the plus is more focused on performance and the recovery aspects of the foam are real. I am impressed with ReactX though…. Much more than I ever thought I would be after the Infinity RN4 last year.
Great to see another Shoeoff on the channel, and to see you back running. Recently watched a Shoetube review of someone who had never run in the Pegasus Turbo back in the day. He found them almost like barefoot shoes and basically unusable for any kind of mileage. Crazy how perception has changed, huh. I still wear mine casually every now and then and sure they' re a bit more minimal than this new generation of Nike Daily Trainers but still find them pretty well cushioned actually. The standard Pegasus is not the most exciting shoe but gets the job done very well. Currently using the Mach 6 for most of easy Road Runs - just to kill it off, and replace it eventually with the Pegasus Plus or SL2.
@@robin29991 thanks and yeah it was good to do some content with evidence of me running more than 2 strides on a towpath LOL. Yeah it is puzzling to me sometimes how anybody who was a runner over say 5 years ago managed to run at all net alone marathons. Speaking of Mach 6, I ought to do a similar shoeoff to this with that and maybe some other “hype” anti Nike shoes like the SL2 and Rebel v4. I kind of suspect my 8:15 ish pace here will feel little different in those. Anyway perhaps am just getting old. With the current Nike sale have ordered a pair of Structure 25. Be good to see if it helps my current issues or not. I had thought about the Invincible 3 but speaking to fellow RUclipsr SagasuRunning - he thought would be terrible for my current issues which I guess is part of the theme here that max stack mushy shoes are not necessarily the answer. I didn’t really wear any of these three shoes when I got injured so can’t blame a bit of ground feel. I think it was essentially overuse but don’t warn any plated shoes since - well you hardly need to for these paces.
@@TimGrose Ah, should be interesting. Just looked at the Structure in a shop once, seemed pretty stiff and firm but I guess that's sort of the point of it. Not necessarily a shoe that would appeal much to me right now. Yeah, that might be an interesting Shoeoff, but always Yes to more of these videos:)
@@robin29991 they came in just under £90 so thought worth a try. I do find Shoeoff reviews better for me than ones just straight to camera. Besides nearly everyday else does them - well with B roll of 2 strides etc etc
@@robin29991 i think i know which shoetube review you are talking about...yea, he didn't quite get it! I still love my Peg turbo 35s.. i still have one totally unused pair left... The zoomx back in the day had that squishy feeling... Actually, the Asics Superblast is Asics's Peg turbo, and look at its success!! If you take the design and geometry and the relative stack heights of the foams in superblast, and replace the FF blast turbo+ with Zoomx and FF blast eco+ with ReactX (it would be the most logical upgrade to Peg turbo 35 and turbo 2), and ensure the shoes are not too wobbly, then that would make a better shoe than the Superblast! I think Zoomx is still the best foam in the market. Nike has got it all!
@@BenNotley yeah thanks - good to be out. Big hill that one past the barking dog. Goal pace targets were in jeopardy. At least limited mud on heels this time…
Interesting analysis! Your love and enthusiasm for running and running shoes is commendable! And, i like the english country lanes where you run.. Wish you the best with speedy and optimum recovery! In the last few years some of the other brands have made better daily trainers... Pegasus may not be that bad, but it is always a big deal when other brands surpass it... however, everybody wants Nike to make a strong comeback! At the moment they are not listening to what their customers really want, what the running public likes-- there is a communication breakdown!
@@bluesque9687 am always on the lookout for quiet loops where can park alongside as handy for shoeoffs when need to change shoes often. As for the shoes I guess that is part of the issue here. Pegasus 41 seems to sell well generally but what does the general customer actually want ? My point is it really more stack and softer foams. Well Nike do have the Invincible there. I also think there is a high percentage of runners who dismiss Nike as a brand whatever they do. It is good to have the choice but, in the main, Nike shoes have always tended to be my goto brand.
@@cgazlan that bit of the loop was the only real noticeable drag up so yeah it may well have done. HR probably not helped by holding my GoPro up as passed by. Maybe was thinking if it went for me would have evidence :) Feel sure it was barking because of me!
I am glad you are getting better and starting to run a bit, to be honest I have not owned a Nike show since the vaporfly 2 (and before that the zoomfly 2) , so just watching for informative purposes.
Zoom Fly 2 I don’t recall seeing. Must have been a 2018 shoe ? As you might have guessed I tend to get on well with most Nike shoes but the Zoom Fly 3 and 5 that I tried I did not like much at all although of course could run in them just like the general theme here that you can largely run in anything. What are your goto shoes right now ?
@@TimGrose Ignoring race shoes (which my collection is too large and will whittle down through usage over the next 12 months) my current easy day is the Glycerin21 (replaced the NB 1080v13), my two daily drivers are the NB Rebellion V4 (Bunion friendly.) and the latest Hyperion 2 , for quicker stuff . I really get on with this year’s DNA foams from Brooks .. not quite. light strike pro’ but similar in feel and more importantly the shoes fit my wider feet comfortably.
Solid video. I just don't like it when these so-called "runners" on youtube criticise some shoes that aren't akin to their liking and not judge the shoes for what they are intended to be. As you said, perhaps they should look at themselves more than saying something negative about those shoes.
Yeah thanks. Obviously we are all different and so won’t necessarily like or need the same shoes as anybody else. My main aim here was to try and show well actually there isn’t much in it and if you like a softer or firmer feel or somewhere in the middle or something bit lighter then you can run in them all pretty much the same.
Enjoyed that one Tim. I'm a 54 year old runner so can empathise and relate to this video. I've got the Vomero 17 ready as part of my Brighton marathon rotation starting December. For now Triumph 20 still strong at 720km. Don't worry though, I'm in the Adios 7 today to keep that ground feel going. Keep the vids coming and hope you can keep getting stronger in your runs. Also love the countryside!😊
@@manno9621 yeah thanks. I did enjoy that loop. I think the car that overtook me was the only that passed me and I was there a good two hours. Adios 7 and 8 do certainly have ground feel by modern day standards and I think more so than any of these Nike shoes but the Adios is a more obvious fast shoe to me. I was thinking of trying a Triumph but the reviews on the latest one put me off and perhaps illustrates why I tend to steer clear of these mushy trainers that seem to be popular with many runners. I do sometimes bring out a pair of Invincible for max cushioning but equally they often feel like an easy run is not as easy as it could be. I was pleasantly surprised by the Vomero 17 here. Had not worn it for a while but seemed a good compromise between shoes with lots of ground feel and those with next to none. All things considered I liked all three here on test in slightly different ways. I wonder what the Adios 9 will bring. Rumoured to be a thin layer of Lightstrike Pro only. Sounds like the equivalent of the Streakfly. It is the sort of shoe would almost be embarrassed to use right now.
@@TimGrose thanks Tim. I did a tempo run in the Adios 7 today but was tough. The triumph 20 for me is a good daily cushioned shoe nice fit and you can pick up the pace in it. But that's the max I can go in terms of cushion. I took the takumi Sen 9 on holiday was nice as an easy day shoe in the heat with very occasional pace. 500km on that now it's at the end. I put 700km on invincible 2, find them a bit cumbersome as a slow shoe but surprisingly quick so best up to 10k I found. I enjoy the stats and analysis so please keep it going. Btw that was a big dog!!😮
@@manno9621 I found the Adios 8 a bit easier on the legs than the 7 but I used to race in the Adios 1 so does seem a bit odd to train in such shoes. One certainly have had to park of late. Yeah that dog was big!
@@adraids2362 I feel there are quite different. Vomero 17 fairly plush fairly soft plodder for easy days. SL2 much more minimalist uptempo trainer but next to no support. I haven’t really been reaching for either of late.
This is a great video. I love the Peg 41, Peg Plus and dislike the Vomero 17 (its too marshmallowy for me, yet the 16 was one of my all time favourites). Maybe its because we are close in age, we understand 10mm drop and enjoy some ground feel, but newer runners like Yowana (whom i like) dislikes anything but huge stack shoes, maybe thats what this generation is used to (I'd never go more stack than the Peg Plus). As we spoke last video comments, i have given up on the notion of lightweight because i have molded orthotics, you may want to think about that. The roads are so nice, reminds me of the roads where i lived in Lyme Regis, i maybe all nice English country roads look the same 😂(I know you are up north)
I am actually in Surrey so very "down south". This particular location is in East Hampshire not far from Alton. Sue & I have had several holidays in Lyme Regis albeit not for some years now. I remember the only flat place to run was along the Prom. A few times I brought my bike but felt like was having to go near all out just to make the main road off and up the Cobb! I did a spell in the Vomero 17 when it first came out some months ago now and did feel a bit "marshmallowy" at the time. Perhaps a little less so in these two runs in it but was only a mile each. It did make me think might put them back into my general rotation which of late has mostly just been the Peg 41 and a bit of testing in the Peg Plus. Yeah it is interesting that "newer" runners like Yowana having seemingly different tastes to us. Then again I only ran 100 miles in a week about twice ever but he seems to be able to do it week in week out. As such kind of thought would have built up an awful lot of leg strength. I think it also tricky if you wear literally a different shoe every day. I am a shoe geek for sure but soon dismiss shoes I just don't like at all and now don't buy quite as many as I perhaps used to. I think there is also a lot of echo chamber in these days. If a RUclipsr likes or dislikes a shoe their followers will tend to agree without often having tried it. Still it does seem if you have only recently started running there is a feeling I need as much stack and softness as possible. Maybe some do but not always the "answer" I feel.
@@TimGrose Nice! ah yes, I was between Seaton and Lyme Regis on the Undercliff trail, the roads are 20-25% grade. I miss it and hope to move back to England in a year or two. I ran 100 miles weeks when I ran marathons 20 years ago (prob why I can barely run now) , I don't think it's leg strength, I think it's just how they entered the sport (I started out in board-lasted shoes, so today's foams all feel better than that). I agree on the rotation point, I'm in two shoes (41 and plus) and that's it, but I don't have a RUclips channel 😂. You are right also on the echo chamber, Peg 41 is a great shoe for 90% of runners (and always was), unless they were an overpronator you can hand people a peg and know they would enjoy it and not get hurt. Maybe I'm too old, or maybe I did too much marketing in the industry but I believe the over stack trend is equal to barefoot running shoes in regard to the fact it's unnecessary and can lead to injury (huge stack heights create a fulcrum, you lose ankle stability). In a weird way I think Nike is trying to lead the trend back to mid-stack shoes with 10mm drops with good foams. Leave the carbon plates to racing at sub 2:20 pace. Best!
Great video Tim! I'm currently choosing between Peg 41, Vomero 17 and Vomero 16. I can get all 3 for about £80/90 new. Which would you recommend? I'm currently running 5ks but working my way to a marathon in December. Any advice welcome!!
Hopefully this video showed that any of the shoes I tried here are good as a daily trainer and there is not much in it. I would say if you prefer a soft plush feeling shoe then the Vomero 17 otherwise the Peg 41 but the use cases are the same. I have used the Peg 41 more as find them good for walking as well as running and I like the Volt colourway and indeed the relatively firm (but not too firm) feel is good for me. As I recall the Vomero 16 has air bags like the Peg 41 but the Vomero 17 does not. I did 250 miles in the Vomero 16 before retiring. Again worked well enough but I would tend to go for the newer versions if only as you like them easier to get another pair and I think the 17 is just a bit softer.
@@Mandem909 Ah that's ironic as I ordered them yesterday with the current Nike 20-25% off deals. Thought it might help with my current Achilles issues and be interesting to compare. I usually avoid stability shoes at all costs but think modern day ones aren't the rigid bricks they used to be! That said am not expecting a soft shoe for sure.
@@TimGrose funny coincidence! I tried them in the Nike store today and they were pleasant. Not as bouncy as the vomero 17s and that felt like a good thing. I had the structure 23s and enjoyed them. Might get them again with the 20% off discount!
Nice analysis sir. These are all decent shoes, no complaints from me, apart from... Zoom X - it isn't the same as it was. Sometimes firmer, sometimes softer. Let's see what Nike does with the Vapourfly 4. I expect firm (I hope)
@@gw4550 yeah it does seem the on foot experience does vary shoe to shoe but I guess if they all felt the same be no point having different models. I certainly think the fundamental difference is having a plate or not and then also the difference in weight between say a track spike or Streakfly or even Vaporfly to an Invincible is very marked and the Vomero 17 for instance saves no weight over the Pegasus 41 despite having ZoomX - well in part.
@@gw4550 good to have a solid plan and some race goals for sure. I have missed racing this summer to a certain extent but equally do now fundamentally be able to run full stop and indeed pain free which is still really a work in progress. Have also realised that cross training on the bike has merit and I don’t feel as unfit as I might have been just doing the odd short run for weeks on end. Good luck with sorting out all that. At its simplest getting out and doing something regularly mostly works I have found.
@@TimGrose I've been cross training for decades. It keep my mind fresh and active to attack the road work. Injury prevention is a must for gents at our stage. Keep up the good work Mr. Grose. You inspire me more than you can imagine 🙏🏽
@@gw4550 that's very nice of you. I do feel I need some inspiration myself of late and in a way this is why I do these videos. Just been able to actually run is a motivation in itself.
im confused which one is more plushy bouncy for just casual walk and daily shoes to work ? i love bouncy soft shoes going to work and so many models to choose from
That's a good question and actually hard to answer 100%. I think "in my head" I would want to like the Peg Plus the most as most aligned to what I normally like in a shoe that isn't too heavy and has some "go" in it. That said I have done more in the Peg 41 of late than anything else put together so clearly am finding good use for them. The Vomero 17 were kind of better than I remembered and on days when want a softer feel would be a good option. So I think I like all 3 in different ways and now have added a 4th fairly similar Nike daily trainer - Structure 25 into the mix so I have plenty of options as I try and build up my running again a bit more and am not really at the stage of worrying about thinking I need to be in plated race shoes to relatively plod along.
@ Yes i am, contemplating on the pegasus plus and zf6. unfortunately a review said the zf6 felt clunky much like the invincible run3 which i hate. tried on the pegasus plus felt like a very versatile everyday trainer but havent been able to try zf6 since it isnt in stores yet.
I ran twice the other day in a sort of shoe-off. I wore the Vomero 17s 'am' and the Vomero 16s 'pm'. I preferred the 16s because of the airbag assistance on the toe-off whereas, the 17s felt too soft and unresponsive albeit, I may do a time on feet run in them today. I will also comment however, that looks are deceiving as the 16s look like a clunky lifestyle shoe to me though.
@@jimmyjames7800 I got the Vomero 16 to 250 miles now few years ago and certainly did a job as a daily trainer. Never quite know if the airbags help or not. In the Pegs I kind of feel can feel them more just walking about it but actually running maybe less so. I kind of feel all these shoes are ones to wear when I don’t really care exactly how fast am going and these days that seems increasingly often. Maybe need to get back to random segment blasts but even obscure ones are no longer low hanging fruit. I did setup one on this circuit which looks attainable on a future visit.
Lets hope the CEO change at Nike will fix a few things! Nike is doing bad in many sectors and not just running shoes. What is strange/alarming about Nike running shoes in the last 5 years is how out of sync they seem to be with the market buzz or with what runners want from their running shoes!! It is not that they are working hard at the right stuff but lagging behind; rather, they are seemingly not working hard at all, neither innovating nor listening to runners!
When I look back over 40+ years of running there always has been a wide selection of shoes available from many brands. Maybe in more recent times we saw Nike being truly dominant as for a good while if you wanted a "super shoe" it was a Nike one or nothing. Clearly that has now changed and, in a way, we have gone back to a more wide ranging choice. I tend to reach Nike first as they mostly suit me but there are certainly some ones I have got in recent years that I thought were "bad" and only really bought them in the first place as had hoped for better with a swoosh on it. Come race day be it road or track or XC I am however still almost always in Nike shoes. I am little more varied in general trainers and when the Turbos "stopped" I was pleased to find Saucony and the Endorphin Speed. The ones on test here do OK but none of them I feel are meant to be "super" and most days for general easyish running I might just reach for whatever I have to hand and want to get a few more miles in. What are your favourite shoes at the moment?
@@TimGrose I unboxed my last pair of Peg Turbo 35 in September (i did try peg plus for comparison... they cant be more different!)... it is my all time favourite shoe! Saucony endorphin speed 3 is a do it all shoe for me. Then I have got Asics GT 2000 13 which I purchased recently... super impressed by it.. It is my dark horse in the rotation! Then i have got a few pairs of Takumi Sen 8 and 9-- no other shoe defines the sheer thrill of running better for me!! I dont race any longer than 10k (i like to run as fast as I can rather than long) My last pair of Nike VF 2 is still with me... VF 2 is what made me a Nike fan boy! I have got a few more shoes but the ones above are my favourites. I am a hobby racer... I dont have a reputation or a collection like you Tim! :) One shoe that i want the world to talk about more is Asics Tarther RP3...for fast intervals!... it makes you work hard but there is something about it that is beautifully fast-- low to the ground, light weight,... like a racing flat...If anybody likes the feel of racing flats (on roads or tracks) then they should check this one out. People in Japan have run marathons in it! But i would recommend it for intervals.
@@bluesque9687 ah so fairly similar to me as I have always got on well with Turbos, Vaporflys and to some extent the Sen 8 & 9 but never found them as fast as Vaporflys for me for any distance and haven't worn a Sen for a while now - especially as been struggling with Achilles/ankle issues all summer. ASICS I kind of feel I am pushing away from as they don't do my size in their best shoes. Interesting you found the Peg Plus and OG Turbo very different. I only did a shoeoff vid recently with the Peg Turbo/Plus versions and they all basically did as well as each other. I did run in the Peg Plus on Sunday and must say wasn't particularly enjoyable but I think that is more my current niggles than the shoe itself. I probably was also going a bit too slowly in them for their best use case.
@@TimGrose Yes, i watched your comparison video. I agree with most of it.. but i think you were being too generous to peg plus... :) IMO Peg plus differs from peg Turbo 35 on these three points: 1. The quality/nature of zoomx is very different... in turbo 35 the zoomx is much softer, and it rises into the sole of your foot as you lift your foot in the stride.. whereas, the zoomx in peg plus falls back/below like a self-absorbed brick! 2. The upper fit/lockdown on Peg Turbo 35 is far superior than Peg Plus. People dont talk about the stability in turbo 35, but with its short stack height, the dual layers, the perfect width and lockdown of the upper,... it really is quite good! 3. The react layer is a good shock absorber and it is also stiff enough to contrast well with the soft zoomx-- the contrast is very essential to why the shoe feels so special! If they re-release peg turbo 35, it will sell more than peg plus!
yes another tim grose video :) always a treat
@@macewindex564 thanks! Have you got any of these ones ?
No-one does vids like this as well as you, love it.
Thanks very much. I enjoy making them too and so will try and do another one soon.
That intro! Loved the data/shoe-off video again, missed these from you. While minor, I'm not surprised the Peg Plus is the "fastest". Interestingly, I believe the ZoomX in the Vomero 17 is the same ZoomX as whats in the VF3/AF3 while the ZoomX in the Peg Plus is the rubberized formula form the SF & I1/2/3. i think that is why once the V17s broke in from me the ZoomX foam just began to spill over the carrier foam, as it does in tat layup.
Thought that might amuse you. I think one "appeal" of the Peg 41 to me is to actually use them and then some. Those who slag them off never seem to actually run in them. As I hopefully showed here you can still add 50g to them with "orthotics" and still go just as well as in the Vomero 17 with all that ZoomX. That said I saw those in a better light and may use them a bit more. I recall you had to abandon them for the "spill over" issue but not yet seen that. You will also be amused to hear that I managed 8.5 miles in the Peg Plus today - longest run for 3 months. At about 6 miles it started to get a bit harder work and maybe even a "bottoming out feeling" but then I thought well of course it will you haven't done more than one 6 mile run in 3 months so nothing is going to run for you! That said I liked them and felt I was at least "running". I think your similar video and my one here do rather illustrate that the differences between shoes are often a lot smaller than you might think and unless a shoe does not fit properly that anything will largely do for most runs. OK on your fastest days/races you don't want to "giveaway" speed by using a "slower" shoe but we have plenty such shoes to choose from for that these days.
@@TimGrose I was very “amused” by the thought of someone actually running in Pegs. “Real” runners don’t do that…. Don’t you know. 🤷🏼♂️
Totally agree, differences in shoes are minor very often…. It comes down to what feels good to run in. I know what I like, definitely. It is good to see that data confirms that sometimes though.
I did a 12k workout in the Peg Plus this morning. 8k at steady effort (4:40/km, so not very hard)…. But the Pegasus Plus felt wonderful and my feet had no issues. Recovery aspects of ZoomX post run are clear too. That’s the differences to me. Capable of the same paces in both Pegs, but the plus is more focused on performance and the recovery aspects of the foam are real. I am impressed with ReactX though…. Much more than I ever thought I would be after the Infinity RN4 last year.
Great to see another Shoeoff on the channel, and to see you back running.
Recently watched a Shoetube review of someone who had never run in the Pegasus Turbo back in the day. He found them almost like barefoot shoes and basically unusable for any kind of mileage. Crazy how perception has changed, huh. I still wear mine casually every now and then and sure they' re a bit more minimal than this new generation of Nike Daily Trainers but still find them pretty well cushioned actually.
The standard Pegasus is not the most exciting shoe but gets the job done very well. Currently using the Mach 6 for most of easy Road Runs - just to kill it off, and replace it eventually with the Pegasus Plus or SL2.
@@robin29991 thanks and yeah it was good to do some content with evidence of me running more than 2 strides on a towpath LOL. Yeah it is puzzling to me sometimes how anybody who was a runner over say 5 years ago managed to run at all net alone marathons. Speaking of Mach 6, I ought to do a similar shoeoff to this with that and maybe some other “hype” anti Nike shoes like the SL2 and Rebel v4. I kind of suspect my 8:15 ish pace here will feel little different in those. Anyway perhaps am just getting old. With the current Nike sale have ordered a pair of Structure 25. Be good to see if it helps my current issues or not. I had thought about the Invincible 3 but speaking to fellow RUclipsr SagasuRunning - he thought would be terrible for my current issues which I guess is part of the theme here that max stack mushy shoes are not necessarily the answer. I didn’t really wear any of these three shoes when I got injured so can’t blame a bit of ground feel. I think it was essentially overuse but don’t warn any plated shoes since - well you hardly need to for these paces.
@@TimGrose Ah, should be interesting. Just looked at the Structure in a shop once, seemed pretty stiff and firm but I guess that's sort of the point of it. Not necessarily a shoe that would appeal much to me right now.
Yeah, that might be an interesting Shoeoff, but always Yes to more of these videos:)
@@robin29991 they came in just under £90 so thought worth a try. I do find Shoeoff reviews better for me than ones just straight to camera. Besides nearly everyday else does them - well with B roll of 2 strides etc etc
@@robin29991 i think i know which shoetube review you are talking about...yea, he didn't quite get it!
I still love my Peg turbo 35s.. i still have one totally unused pair left... The zoomx back in the day had that squishy feeling...
Actually, the Asics Superblast is Asics's Peg turbo, and look at its success!!
If you take the design and geometry and the relative stack heights of the foams in superblast, and replace the FF blast turbo+ with Zoomx and FF blast eco+ with ReactX (it would be the most logical upgrade to Peg turbo 35 and turbo 2), and ensure the shoes are not too wobbly, then that would make a better shoe than the Superblast!
I think Zoomx is still the best foam in the market. Nike has got it all!
Another super shoe off Tim. Good to see you running again and getting some proper shoe testing done. Onwards and upwards mate. 😎🤘
@@BenNotley yeah thanks - good to be out. Big hill that one past the barking dog. Goal pace targets were in jeopardy. At least limited mud on heels this time…
Interesting analysis! Your love and enthusiasm for running and running shoes is commendable!
And, i like the english country lanes where you run..
Wish you the best with speedy and optimum recovery!
In the last few years some of the other brands have made better daily trainers... Pegasus may not be that bad, but it is always a big deal when other brands surpass it... however, everybody wants Nike to make a strong comeback! At the moment they are not listening to what their customers really want, what the running public likes-- there is a communication breakdown!
@@bluesque9687 am always on the lookout for quiet loops where can park alongside as handy for shoeoffs when need to change shoes often. As for the shoes I guess that is part of the issue here. Pegasus 41 seems to sell well generally but what does the general customer actually want ? My point is it really more stack and softer foams. Well Nike do have the Invincible there. I also think there is a high percentage of runners who dismiss Nike as a brand whatever they do. It is good to have the choice but, in the main, Nike shoes have always tended to be my goto brand.
The dog surely affected the HR spiking 😅
@@cgazlan that bit of the loop was the only real noticeable drag up so yeah it may well have done. HR probably not helped by holding my GoPro up as passed by. Maybe was thinking if it went for me would have evidence :) Feel sure it was barking because of me!
I am glad you are getting better and starting to run a bit, to be honest I have not owned a Nike show since the vaporfly 2 (and before that the zoomfly 2) , so just watching for informative purposes.
Zoom Fly 2 I don’t recall seeing. Must have been a 2018 shoe ? As you might have guessed I tend to get on well with most Nike shoes but the Zoom Fly 3 and 5 that I tried I did not like much at all although of course could run in them just like the general theme here that you can largely run in anything. What are your goto shoes right now ?
@@TimGrose Ignoring race shoes (which my collection is too large and will whittle down through usage over the next 12 months) my current easy day is the Glycerin21 (replaced the NB 1080v13), my two daily drivers are the NB Rebellion V4 (Bunion friendly.) and the latest Hyperion 2 , for quicker stuff . I really get on with this year’s DNA foams from Brooks .. not quite. light strike pro’ but similar in feel and more importantly the shoes fit my wider feet comfortably.
Solid video. I just don't like it when these so-called "runners" on youtube criticise some shoes that aren't akin to their liking and not judge the shoes for what they are intended to be. As you said, perhaps they should look at themselves more than saying something negative about those shoes.
Yeah thanks. Obviously we are all different and so won’t necessarily like or need the same shoes as anybody else. My main aim here was to try and show well actually there isn’t much in it and if you like a softer or firmer feel or somewhere in the middle or something bit lighter then you can run in them all pretty much the same.
Enjoyed that one Tim. I'm a 54 year old runner so can empathise and relate to this video. I've got the Vomero 17 ready as part of my Brighton marathon rotation starting December. For now Triumph 20 still strong at 720km. Don't worry though, I'm in the Adios 7 today to keep that ground feel going. Keep the vids coming and hope you can keep getting stronger in your runs. Also love the countryside!😊
@@manno9621 yeah thanks. I did enjoy that loop. I think the car that overtook me was the only that passed me and I was there a good two hours. Adios 7 and 8 do certainly have ground feel by modern day standards and I think more so than any of these Nike shoes but the Adios is a more obvious fast shoe to me. I was thinking of trying a Triumph but the reviews on the latest one put me off and perhaps illustrates why I tend to steer clear of these mushy trainers that seem to be popular with many runners. I do sometimes bring out a pair of Invincible for max cushioning but equally they often feel like an easy run is not as easy as it could be. I was pleasantly surprised by the Vomero 17 here. Had not worn it for a while but seemed a good compromise between shoes with lots of ground feel and those with next to none. All things considered I liked all three here on test in slightly different ways. I wonder what the Adios 9 will bring. Rumoured to be a thin layer of Lightstrike Pro only. Sounds like the equivalent of the Streakfly. It is the sort of shoe would almost be embarrassed to use right now.
@@TimGrose thanks Tim. I did a tempo run in the Adios 7 today but was tough. The triumph 20 for me is a good daily cushioned shoe nice fit and you can pick up the pace in it. But that's the max I can go in terms of cushion. I took the takumi Sen 9 on holiday was nice as an easy day shoe in the heat with very occasional pace. 500km on that now it's at the end. I put 700km on invincible 2, find them a bit cumbersome as a slow shoe but surprisingly quick so best up to 10k I found. I enjoy the stats and analysis so please keep it going. Btw that was a big dog!!😮
@@manno9621 I found the Adios 8 a bit easier on the legs than the 7 but I used to race in the Adios 1 so does seem a bit odd to train in such shoes. One certainly have had to park of late. Yeah that dog was big!
Very interesting shoe off!
@@Knut1978 thanks! Have you got any of these ones ?
hi Tim! can you do a comparison between the Vomero 17 and the Adizero SL 2? cheers!
@@adraids2362 I feel there are quite different. Vomero 17 fairly plush fairly soft plodder for easy days. SL2 much more minimalist uptempo trainer but next to no support. I haven’t really been reaching for either of late.
This is a great video. I love the Peg 41, Peg Plus and dislike the Vomero 17 (its too marshmallowy for me, yet the 16 was one of my all time favourites). Maybe its because we are close in age, we understand 10mm drop and enjoy some ground feel, but newer runners like Yowana (whom i like) dislikes anything but huge stack shoes, maybe thats what this generation is used to (I'd never go more stack than the Peg Plus). As we spoke last video comments, i have given up on the notion of lightweight because i have molded orthotics, you may want to think about that. The roads are so nice, reminds me of the roads where i lived in Lyme Regis, i maybe all nice English country roads look the same 😂(I know you are up north)
I am actually in Surrey so very "down south". This particular location is in East Hampshire not far from Alton. Sue & I have had several holidays in Lyme Regis albeit not for some years now. I remember the only flat place to run was along the Prom. A few times I brought my bike but felt like was having to go near all out just to make the main road off and up the Cobb! I did a spell in the Vomero 17 when it first came out some months ago now and did feel a bit "marshmallowy" at the time. Perhaps a little less so in these two runs in it but was only a mile each. It did make me think might put them back into my general rotation which of late has mostly just been the Peg 41 and a bit of testing in the Peg Plus. Yeah it is interesting that "newer" runners like Yowana having seemingly different tastes to us. Then again I only ran 100 miles in a week about twice ever but he seems to be able to do it week in week out. As such kind of thought would have built up an awful lot of leg strength. I think it also tricky if you wear literally a different shoe every day. I am a shoe geek for sure but soon dismiss shoes I just don't like at all and now don't buy quite as many as I perhaps used to. I think there is also a lot of echo chamber in these days. If a RUclipsr likes or dislikes a shoe their followers will tend to agree without often having tried it. Still it does seem if you have only recently started running there is a feeling I need as much stack and softness as possible. Maybe some do but not always the "answer" I feel.
@@TimGrose Nice! ah yes, I was between Seaton and Lyme Regis on the Undercliff trail, the roads are 20-25% grade. I miss it and hope to move back to England in a year or two. I ran 100 miles weeks when I ran marathons 20 years ago (prob why I can barely run now) , I don't think it's leg strength, I think it's just how they entered the sport (I started out in board-lasted shoes, so today's foams all feel better than that). I agree on the rotation point, I'm in two shoes (41 and plus) and that's it, but I don't have a RUclips channel 😂. You are right also on the echo chamber, Peg 41 is a great shoe for 90% of runners (and always was), unless they were an overpronator you can hand people a peg and know they would enjoy it and not get hurt. Maybe I'm too old, or maybe I did too much marketing in the industry but I believe the over stack trend is equal to barefoot running shoes in regard to the fact it's unnecessary and can lead to injury (huge stack heights create a fulcrum, you lose ankle stability). In a weird way I think Nike is trying to lead the trend back to mid-stack shoes with 10mm drops with good foams. Leave the carbon plates to racing at sub 2:20 pace. Best!
Great video Tim! I'm currently choosing between Peg 41, Vomero 17 and Vomero 16. I can get all 3 for about £80/90 new. Which would you recommend? I'm currently running 5ks but working my way to a marathon in December. Any advice welcome!!
Hopefully this video showed that any of the shoes I tried here are good as a daily trainer and there is not much in it. I would say if you prefer a soft plush feeling shoe then the Vomero 17 otherwise the Peg 41 but the use cases are the same. I have used the Peg 41 more as find them good for walking as well as running and I like the Volt colourway and indeed the relatively firm (but not too firm) feel is good for me. As I recall the Vomero 16 has air bags like the Peg 41 but the Vomero 17 does not. I did 250 miles in the Vomero 16 before retiring. Again worked well enough but I would tend to go for the newer versions if only as you like them easier to get another pair and I think the 17 is just a bit softer.
@@TimGrose that's really helpful thanks! Have you tried the Nike structure 25s by any chance?
@@Mandem909 Ah that's ironic as I ordered them yesterday with the current Nike 20-25% off deals. Thought it might help with my current Achilles issues and be interesting to compare. I usually avoid stability shoes at all costs but think modern day ones aren't the rigid bricks they used to be! That said am not expecting a soft shoe for sure.
@@TimGrose funny coincidence! I tried them in the Nike store today and they were pleasant. Not as bouncy as the vomero 17s and that felt like a good thing. I had the structure 23s and enjoyed them. Might get them again with the 20% off discount!
Nice analysis sir. These are all decent shoes, no complaints from me, apart from... Zoom X - it isn't the same as it was. Sometimes firmer, sometimes softer. Let's see what Nike does with the Vapourfly 4. I expect firm (I hope)
@@gw4550 yeah it does seem the on foot experience does vary shoe to shoe but I guess if they all felt the same be no point having different models. I certainly think the fundamental difference is having a plate or not and then also the difference in weight between say a track spike or Streakfly or even Vaporfly to an Invincible is very marked and the Vomero 17 for instance saves no weight over the Pegasus 41 despite having ZoomX - well in part.
@@TimGrose possibly I am obsessed with efficiency, and so I need to just need to polarise / clarify my training/racing again. Onwards and upwards 👍🏽
@@gw4550 good to have a solid plan and some race goals for sure. I have missed racing this summer to a certain extent but equally do now fundamentally be able to run full stop and indeed pain free which is still really a work in progress. Have also realised that cross training on the bike has merit and I don’t feel as unfit as I might have been just doing the odd short run for weeks on end. Good luck with sorting out all that. At its simplest getting out and doing something regularly mostly works I have found.
@@TimGrose I've been cross training for decades. It keep my mind fresh and active to attack the road work. Injury prevention is a must for gents at our stage. Keep up the good work Mr. Grose. You inspire me more than you can imagine 🙏🏽
@@gw4550 that's very nice of you. I do feel I need some inspiration myself of late and in a way this is why I do these videos. Just been able to actually run is a motivation in itself.
im confused which one is more plushy bouncy for just casual walk and daily shoes to work ? i love bouncy soft shoes going to work and so many models to choose from
@@alvinting7423 of these three the Vomero 17 is the most plush and bouncy I would say.
Hello, I fit pegasus 41. and I'm 7.5 with it with perfect fit. should I go halfsize down if I'm going to buy vomero17?
I found that they fit very similar to me so do not see any reason to have different sizes in these two. So suggest try your normal 7.5.
Interesting but which shoe did you enjoy above the others?
That's a good question and actually hard to answer 100%. I think "in my head" I would want to like the Peg Plus the most as most aligned to what I normally like in a shoe that isn't too heavy and has some "go" in it. That said I have done more in the Peg 41 of late than anything else put together so clearly am finding good use for them. The Vomero 17 were kind of better than I remembered and on days when want a softer feel would be a good option. So I think I like all 3 in different ways and now have added a 4th fairly similar Nike daily trainer - Structure 25 into the mix so I have plenty of options as I try and build up my running again a bit more and am not really at the stage of worrying about thinking I need to be in plated race shoes to relatively plod along.
hi tim are you going to get the ZF6?
I am yes. Have ordered a pair and probably will be able to run in them in about a week. Are you thinking about them?
@ Yes i am, contemplating on the pegasus plus and zf6. unfortunately a review said the zf6 felt clunky much like the invincible run3 which i hate.
tried on the pegasus plus felt like a very versatile everyday trainer but havent been able to try zf6 since it isnt in stores yet.
Always be ready for an uphill sprint ... if the dog gets off its leash.
@@HawaiiFranke ha ha yes and that section of the loop was the only noticeable uphill bit although not too steep.
I ran twice the other day in a sort of shoe-off. I wore the Vomero 17s 'am' and the Vomero 16s 'pm'. I preferred the 16s because of the airbag assistance on the toe-off whereas, the 17s felt too soft and unresponsive albeit, I may do a time on feet run in them today. I will also comment however, that looks are deceiving as the 16s look like a clunky lifestyle shoe to me though.
@@jimmyjames7800 I got the Vomero 16 to 250 miles now few years ago and certainly did a job as a daily trainer. Never quite know if the airbags help or not. In the Pegs I kind of feel can feel them more just walking about it but actually running maybe less so. I kind of feel all these shoes are ones to wear when I don’t really care exactly how fast am going and these days that seems increasingly often. Maybe need to get back to random segment blasts but even obscure ones are no longer low hanging fruit. I did setup one on this circuit which looks attainable on a future visit.
The Vomero 17s were a good choice for me on this afternoon's subsequent jigy-jog upon dry mixed terrain (lose and compact) trails @TimGrose
Lets hope the CEO change at Nike will fix a few things! Nike is doing bad in many sectors and not just running shoes.
What is strange/alarming about Nike running shoes in the last 5 years is how out of sync they seem to be with the market buzz or with what runners want from their running shoes!! It is not that they are working hard at the right stuff but lagging behind; rather, they are seemingly not working hard at all, neither innovating nor listening to runners!
When I look back over 40+ years of running there always has been a wide selection of shoes available from many brands. Maybe in more recent times we saw Nike being truly dominant as for a good while if you wanted a "super shoe" it was a Nike one or nothing. Clearly that has now changed and, in a way, we have gone back to a more wide ranging choice. I tend to reach Nike first as they mostly suit me but there are certainly some ones I have got in recent years that I thought were "bad" and only really bought them in the first place as had hoped for better with a swoosh on it. Come race day be it road or track or XC I am however still almost always in Nike shoes. I am little more varied in general trainers and when the Turbos "stopped" I was pleased to find Saucony and the Endorphin Speed. The ones on test here do OK but none of them I feel are meant to be "super" and most days for general easyish running I might just reach for whatever I have to hand and want to get a few more miles in. What are your favourite shoes at the moment?
@@TimGrose I unboxed my last pair of Peg Turbo 35 in September (i did try peg plus for comparison... they cant be more different!)... it is my all time favourite shoe!
Saucony endorphin speed 3 is a do it all shoe for me. Then I have got Asics GT 2000 13 which I purchased recently... super impressed by it.. It is my dark horse in the rotation!
Then i have got a few pairs of Takumi Sen 8 and 9-- no other shoe defines the sheer thrill of running better for me!! I dont race any longer than 10k (i like to run as fast as I can rather than long) My last pair of Nike VF 2 is still with me... VF 2 is what made me a Nike fan boy!
I have got a few more shoes but the ones above are my favourites. I am a hobby racer... I dont have a reputation or a collection like you Tim! :)
One shoe that i want the world to talk about more is Asics Tarther RP3...for fast intervals!... it makes you work hard but there is something about it that is beautifully fast-- low to the ground, light weight,... like a racing flat...If anybody likes the feel of racing flats (on roads or tracks) then they should check this one out. People in Japan have run marathons in it! But i would recommend it for intervals.
@@bluesque9687 ah so fairly similar to me as I have always got on well with Turbos, Vaporflys and to some extent the Sen 8 & 9 but never found them as fast as Vaporflys for me for any distance and haven't worn a Sen for a while now - especially as been struggling with Achilles/ankle issues all summer. ASICS I kind of feel I am pushing away from as they don't do my size in their best shoes. Interesting you found the Peg Plus and OG Turbo very different. I only did a shoeoff vid recently with the Peg Turbo/Plus versions and they all basically did as well as each other. I did run in the Peg Plus on Sunday and must say wasn't particularly enjoyable but I think that is more my current niggles than the shoe itself. I probably was also going a bit too slowly in them for their best use case.
@@TimGrose Yes, i watched your comparison video. I agree with most of it.. but i think you were being too generous to peg plus... :)
IMO Peg plus differs from peg Turbo 35 on these three points:
1. The quality/nature of zoomx is very different... in turbo 35 the zoomx is much softer, and it rises into the sole of your foot as you lift your foot in the stride.. whereas, the zoomx in peg plus falls back/below like a self-absorbed brick!
2. The upper fit/lockdown on Peg Turbo 35 is far superior than Peg Plus. People dont talk about the stability in turbo 35, but with its short stack height, the dual layers, the perfect width and lockdown of the upper,... it really is quite good!
3. The react layer is a good shock absorber and it is also stiff enough to contrast well with the soft zoomx-- the contrast is very essential to why the shoe feels so special!
If they re-release peg turbo 35, it will sell more than peg plus!
Legs for days
@@peppapigfan47 ha ha. Couldn’t find any suitable outdoor table so the grass it was. Wide angle on my GoPro to get all the shoes and my legs in !