I seriously think every cis person needs to watch this. You explain our frustrations so perfectly and still give the people who don't understand grace.
I hate being misgendered, but I rarely correct someone. I feel so embarrassed and shameful about it because I internalized the rhetoric that trans people are sooo annoying for pushing their pronouns. I'm in college and I don't even make my transness or pronouns known to anyone. I'm so afraid of people learning I'm trans and treating me weirdly or PURPOSELY misgendering me. I have this insecurity that I don't deserve to be gendered correctly bc I don't pass well enough and people would not actually see me as my gender even if I came out. If the world and politics was actually compassionate and understanding toward trans people, I would feel comfortable being openly trans because I know people would respect me, but the current climate makes it impossible to feel safe. I just wish gender non conforming and trans identities were normalized and already considered when meeting someone new rather than this anxiety of should I tell them? what if they don't respect me? what if they actually just see me as my agab but want to be nice? Rationally, I know asking for pronouns isn't a big demand, but cis people MAKE it a big deal and that only makes me want to stay in the closet bc I don't want to be seen as an annoying sensitive person.
Oof yep, hits hard. What helped for me was coming out in a social anxiety therapy group and asking people to use my pronouns. I shat bricks from sheer panic, but what I learned was that real people out in the world are really not that bothered. Most of them had never even heard of being nonbinary. They don't understand you, but they just want to be nice people. Online there's endless waves of hate, but that's not reflective of most people out in the world. Online you just constantly get confronted with the small percentage of people who are bothered by your existence for no reason at all, and choose to make that everyone else's problem. Disclaimer: this was in Amsterdam. If you're in rural America or Poland or something... yeah maybe don't do this.
Most people won't purposely misgender you and IME it's actually the easiest to deal with. It's the accidents that are hard because that is a lack of effort on their part. They don't care enough to be careful!
@@1917yee but. You are right. A lot of ppl aren't gonna be purposely dicks about your pronouns. And I hope op will feel safe enough to come out at some point.
As brutal as it sounds, if there are people in your life who on being told your pronouns choose to not make the effort... well now you know their quality at least in this regard. Think of it this way, you are currently (potentially) dealing with people who wouldn't respect your identity and pronouns, you just don't know yet. In my opinion it's better to know than not.
ME TOO OMFG. Literally and I even joke to people when I feel comfortable enough and say "yea im a they/them-er" just so there is no pressure or like it even feels like im invalidating myself a bit by joking but i do not like when anyone misgenders me, i feel entirely disconnected from it. Especially at work, even at my last job I was OUT and coworkers still misgendered me. It's so annoying, and I havent done anything medical yet and it makes me feel invalid because i don't even look or sound "passable" and i KNOW people argue that nonbinary doesnt look a certain way, but to society it does.
For me it's the part where she never talked about this before or had her pronouns in her name until she thought it would be convenient for her defense.
I mean I think it makes sense for her to put her pronouns in her name if she is going to say people should. I also get why this interaction would make her suggest that 🤷
@@juniperfox1064 I could imagine that not looking terrible, if she had done it with a completely different attitude. If she had said "I'm sorry. I need to practice not assuming peoples genders. This is not to blame the person I misgendered, because it was my responsibility not to do that, but I just put my pronouns in my name to help normalize that for people who want their pronouns extra visible.", that would have been a whole lot less nasty than what she actually did, which was say several times that it was the other person's fault for not having done something she only decided she wanted to do right then and there. It's like if she catcalled someone and then said "it's not my fault, because their skirt was too short and that's just what happens when you dress like that, and while I have never believed this until now, I just changed into a longer skirt, because we should all be covering up to prevent this", like. No, it's not a good look.
it drives me nuts how so many people say "the person with the sensitivity around how they're gendered" as if cis people don't also feel hurt and upset when they're misgendered. Just because it happens less often doesn't mean that trans people are the ONLY people who get misgendered.
the way she flippantly misuses the terms “gaslighting” and “triggered” to dismiss trans voices without recognizing the true meaning of those terms makes me so frustrated too
As a cis person who’s done the self flagellating pronoun apology (though not in years, I’ve learned a lot and continue to learn), a thousand thank yous for this video
Jameela isn't sorry. She's just embarrassed she got caught being lazy, and now she's making excuses to everyone, including herself, for why she shouldn't feel guilty. I know because I've seen this time and time again, especially in the workplace. People will claim to support queer rights, or even be queer themselves, then when they misgender someone (e.g. me), they'll immediately have this gut reaction to make excuses for why their lack of effort is justified, and why their hurting / humiliating / endangering another person in public should be forgiven. Zero care is given to the person they may have put in genuine harm's way with their words and actions. People who are genuinely sorry don't make excuses for themselves. They say they're sorry and ask how they can do better. They don't say "Transpeople should do this then," or "If you care about your identity that much," etc. They immediately look for how *they* can do better. Jameela isn't doing that. She's trying to tell transpeople how *we* can do better to prevent her from making that mistake again. We're not her parents. She's a grown-up. It's not our responsibility, nor anyone else's, to protect her or any other grown cisgender adult from their own fallibility and laziness. To illustrate with an example outside of transness: A and B are on a sidewalk, both walking to the same place. A is naturally a faster walker than B, but B is walking in front of A and has a cup of hot coffee in their hand. In a moment of impatience, A hurries forward to walk in front, knocking B's elbow by accident and causing B to burn themselves with the hot coffee. Should A say: 1) "Oh, I'm so sorry! That was careless of me. Are you alright?" 2) "Whoa! Well, I'm *obviously* sorry you got hurt, but you shouldn't be walking with hot coffee on the sidewalk like that. And why didn't you tell me you were carrying coffee? Also, if you really can't walk any faster, you should get out of the way when someone's behind you." Which is a more genuine apology? Which version would be spoken if A actually, truly gave a shit about their fellow human? Which version would tell you that A likes to think they're a polite and caring person, but really, that's only true when they don't have to share the sidewalk? It's easy to say you're an ally. It's a lot harder to actually be one. Those who call themselves allies, only to make excuses when it's time to humble themselves and turn their words into action, will get no sympathy from me.
A 10/10 response and totally incapsulates my feelings against her points... she's so in the wrong here that she's seemed to forget how actually speaking to someone works...This is so so sad...
My pronouns are they/them. I am openly out at my work. Cis people at my work royally butchering my pronouns and then making excuses I can tiredly wave away, because whatever you know. What really gets me is my co-worker who identified themselves to me as nonbinary and says they don't mind what pronouns are used for them when I asked, but will CONSTANTLY misgender me. And then make excuses like the cis people. You.... should know how much this hurts? Like what the hell is going on in your brain please. It hurts so much more. It even makes part of my brain question if they are trans or if they just identify that way because they are a drag queen? (which in it's essence is about playing with gender/roles,etc) But I recognize that is harmful thinking and a dangerous train of thought to follow. I am not inside their brain. My brain is just trying to come up with reasons for the hurt they're causing I guess. Trans people can be dicks too, I know. Probably the simplest explanation. edit: I used to have another trans coworker, and he would use my correct pronouns, but NEVER once corrected my other coworkers when they misgendered me. :/ Y'know?....
@@puck2470 You're certainly not alone in this experience. I'm a binary transman, but I've also experienced the frustration and hurt that comes with being left out to dry by fellow transpeople, as well as self-proclaimed queer allies. I have my own thoughts about why this happens, and I think a lot of it has to do with the fear of being visible, the desire to be welcomed into a cisnormative social hierarchy, and the way enbies and AFAB transpeople are often infantilised or trivialised by cisgender communities, but none of that can take away the sting of betrayal when a fellow transperson won't stand with and support you, especially in the workplace.
she didn't even misgender them by using the wrong pronound lol she called them a woman. it's just weird to assume a random stranger online's gender especially if ur gonna make a point about gender lol. just take a second to check their bio lol jeez it's not that hard. and the whole "if you don't wanna be misgendered put your pronouns in your name 😝" is not only insulting but she didn't even use the wrong pronouns lol she called them a woman
and the whole "YOU'RE GASLIGHTING ME!!" thing... i didn't see the thread but like gaslighting is a real manipulation tactic abusers use.. especially since jameela just said "they were rude to me" i really doubt they were emotionally abusing Jameela lol they were probably just disagreeing with jameela lol... just a bonkers term to throw away like that
Yes! This is exactly what I was thinking!! It's one thing if you casually don't think to check the bio in a response unrelated to gender but like if you're literally going to make a point about a person's gender you should probably check it's accurate?? Imagine if this user was a cis man and jameela had made the same mistake, would she be making her point about pronouns in the same way?? probably not!
They literally tweeted calling themselves a woman 2 weeks before the troll tweets to Jameela, never called themselves nonbinary before this *and* had she as a pronoun in their bio. This was very transparently just a way to drag her over something else since her and her friends were trolling Jameela at the time. Yeah Jameela shouldn’t have said people need to have pronouns in their names and all that other stuff. But it’s frustrating honestly to see this huge focus on and example made of someone who’s own friends didn’t know they’re apparently nb since they nonstop said that they were a woman on their own account.
@@galaxychar Oh snap, how did this come out? I can't find anything about this. They were a tiny account and privated almost immediately so it's hard to find anything
@@galaxychar yeah I heard this too, but I can't find the original tweet that Jameela was originally responding to or the tweet where the nonbinary person allegedly was referring to themselves as a woman. If anyone has any links pls I'm begging y'all 🙏 hopefully not deleted yet or anything
I've seen Twitter mobs check people's pronouns before saying fuck them/her/him/(other). There is some weird humor in this, I just haven't been able to use my hungover brain to formulate it into a sentence and laugh
uncomfortable with how much of this convo is headed by white people and how much of it disappears the fact that jameela has been fielding racist, ableist, and sexist abuse on twitter for years. white trans people are reading this as her unequivocally saying "whether i gender you correctly is dependent on how you address me". but it is clear to me, as a tpoc, that she is expressing frustration over this non-malicious accident being centered over the actively malicious harassment she received. obviously, not assuming the gender of strangers is the correct thing to do rather than asking ppl to include pronouns in their display name. she's wrong for implying otherwise. but the malice people have been ascribing to her is not lost on me. it's been a trend ever since jameela broke into the mainstream to gaslight her emotions + lived reality - see that time everyone on twitter was contesting whether or not she "really" had EDS. (edit: apparently the tweet in question was literally accusing of her of faking her illness, so, there you go)
One of the only level-headed responses I’ve seen about this. We can’t pretend like this isn’t a continuation of white people loving to pick on her because it is. I’m non-binary myself but I can still see that people love dunking on this woman for the dumbest of reasons.
a lot of people use nb contextually for nonbinary people, and if it makes sense in the conversation theres really not a problem, especially since i usually see these terms used with non black as NB and nonbinary as nb, just my two cents because i hate being called an enby tbh
same for mlm (men loving men/multilevel marketing), the worst thing I’ve seen come out of it is a moment of confusion before people catch onto context cues
We are right to be frustrated when our "allies" (genuinely, cis people who care about us) are the ones asking us to accommodate them. When it is constantly our time and effort being used to aid their comfort. Well spoken video, I love hearing your thoughts!!
Yet if you keep attacking your most public allies so viciously you do more harm to your own community. The way all of you people piled on her. With friends like this who needs enemies
i havent watched the video yet, but my own personal reaction to her tweets - it really isnt that hard to check someone's twitter bio for their pronouns. i do it all the time, because i care about not misgendering people and because im trans and been misgendered myself. jameela jamil expecting trans people to do something extra for her instead of just not assuming people's pronouns, regardless of checking their bio, is mind boggling to me
and you know what? nobodys perfect. sometimes you forget to check and assume incorrectly. all you have to do is apologize without any excuse. just say "im sorry, i didnt check," and edit the message in question (or delete it if youre on a platform that doesnt allow editing)
@@juniperfox1064 i agree to an extent, however i think if you’re going to deliberately mention gender, as jameela did, then you should take the 5 seconds to check the persons bio
@@boybriar if you're going to reference a fact about someone, why wouldn't you check it first? How is it chronically online to make sure you are correct in your assumptions. If you don't feel like checking then just don't mention the thing
To be fair, I can understand how, when you're in the middle of an argument and emotion is high, you might not think to check someone's bio. However, oh my god, do NOT go on and on about it, then blame other people for your wrong assumptions! It's not other people's job to make sure you don't mess up. She's essentially saying, "You made me do it," which is a dangerous perspective that justifies a lot of serious abuse.
i’ve seen Jameela’s tweet several times but i JUST NOW realized she said “put your pronouns in your name, i just did.” she JUST did??? so she wasn’t even living by the advice she’s giving trans people now?? so prior to that point, someone could’ve misgendered her and by her own logic it was her own fault?? and she’s acting like she wouldn’t be “triggered” if someone used pronouns other than she/her for her?? i’m so annoyed lmfao fuming
cis-splaining at it's finest! I really hope jameela sees this and some serious self-reflection happens. brennen, thank you for this nuanced, thoughtful explanation of an issue that the community endure on a daily basis.
it's disturbing to me how much she works with trans people on Legendary and how much she seems to be backpedaling on the understanding i thought she had
Nice video Brennen, I agree with everything you said and my heart goes out to all the trans people hurt by this incessant bs regurgitated by well-meaning cis people. I appreciate your straightforwardness because lots of cis people needes to hear it.
From memory! the original tweet was something along the lines of bringing up the accusations of Jameela Jamil lying in the past about illnesses, as a quote retweet which Jamil responded to with an article debunking said lies.
This has been so enlightening for me. I thought I understood how to best address misgendering and the ways in which it affects others, but I never considered that it might be traumatizing or alarming because of how tough it is to live as a trans person. Thank you for giving your two cents on this issue, Brennen!
I almost skipped this video - I wasn't interested in more Twitter drama. But this goes way beyond that, and I can't imagine a better response to the situation than this one. As it listened it quickly became obvious this event is almost the same kind of thing as so many previous incidents related to a person with privilege who thinks they are allies engaging in behavior that ignores the reality of what black people, women, gay people, poor people, disabled people, trans people, etc., live with. I think the key to overcoming this kind of behavior in oneself (i.e., as a more privileged person) - in addition to shutting up and listening - is recognizing that we grew up in a society that teaches us to think like oppressors, and we internalized those thought patterns as children. So of course, no matter our good intentions, we are going to keep on doing things that emerge from the kind of thinking we were indoctrinated with as children - things that are ignorant and hurtful. So we have to expend a lot of effort working on ourselves so we can change. As a cis white guy, I've said and done plenty of things that now embarrass me. And as a bisexual who grew up poor, I've said and done a lot of things very hurtful to myself. But I'm trying to change - I hope Jameela can do the same. In any case - great video!
I feel like if pronouns were literally plastered everywhere, the next thing would be "Yeah, you have your pronouns right there, but they're not legible!" and then it keeps going until we have a cis-approved pronoun font...
I feel like at the very least if you're going to guess someone's gender you should own up to it if you're wrong. I think it's true that you can get away with guessing most of the time so I do understand people being lazy and just defaulting to that, but you can't blame someone else because you were working on autopilot.
It really reminds me of a person on Tiktok who faked a disorder and people constantly misgendered them while talking about them and it was the worst vibes all around.
You talking about being misgendered after talking about your pronouns hits so hard. I interrupted someone who was reading something about me, said my pronouns and they said “yeah” and then misgendered me repeatedly seconds later. For me it tends to happen the most in professional contexts and I have no idea how to navigate it because people keep ignoring me having my pronouns in my zoom name and email signature etc and continue to misgender me and it’s getting to the point where I don’t want to be around anyone or say anything about who I am. Jamilla is talking absolute nonsense, a lot of cis people just do not care about truly trying to respect us or reframe how they see gender. It’s too much work (which I get because even for us as trans and/or non binary people, it’s not easy to dismantle gendered assumptions) so they’d rather, as you said, feel comfortable. To hell with our mental health or self esteem, I guess. As long as cis people get to feel comfortable. Ugh, I’m so grumpy about this. What you’re saying about getting surgery and hormones to be gendered correctly is really interesting to me because I was wondering if it was wrong to consider starting T mostly because I’m gutted by being misgendered (and want the majority of the changes ofc) when in an ideal world where cis people didn’t misgender me or assume things about me based on my body, I don’t think I would feel a burning need for T in quite the *same* way. I know social dysphoria is a thing but I wasn’t sure if it was okay to transition in certain ways mostly for that reason. The interplay between internal dysphoria and social dysphoria is really confusing to me and I would love to see a video on it because I personally don’t have a clue how to unpack any of it! Sorry, I went off on a tangent but would love to hear thoughts on this especially from other POC because I feel like race also impacts this as well.
So I'm a POC and nonbinary, and I definitely understand what you mean abt social dysphoria vs internal dysphoria. I think its harder for us than white trans folk because we have a socially determined way we can present gender without being subjected to violence for it within and outside of our communities. There are very specific experiences of gender that we have that intersect with racial stereotypes and other forms of oppression (ex the "spicy Latina" stereotype which narrowly defines the acceptable forms of expression for Latina femme people in Western spaces). Gender as we understand it in the West is a direct result of colonization and we are often forced to conform to this binary which upholds white women as the pinnacle of femininity and white men as the pinnacle of masculinity even within the queer community, and it takes time to unlearn that. Idk I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate and rediscover queerness and gender nonconformity when so many sources/records were erased during colonization. Highly recommend watching Gendering Is a Luxury that I Can't Afford by Foreign Man in a Foreign Land, he discusses gender w other black and/or trans people and how BIPOC folk have less room to express or explore our gender identities because of the already narrow roles we're forced into.
@@zkkitty2436 ahhh, thank you so much for this comment. Yesss, exactly what you say about being compared to white norms! I will elaborate in a bit but wanted to respond.
God it really does boil down to what you said: cis people have to spend two seconds checking a bio before using a pronoun (which is either 1 click or hovering over an icon) or saying sorry quickly and moving on. and we're hoping that years of hormones and surgery will stop us being misgendered on a daily basis. Tiring!! Not to mention that having pronouns in our bios already makes people act weird, but in our display names? I LOVE having a target on me and the more obvious it is the better
disappointed with jameela. i just think that cis ppl just dont understand the consequences of misgendering. often for trans issues, us trans ppl know the solution which is just check the bio and not a solution by a cis person and it's ok to be wrong which i think she is very strongheaded of her. thank you brennen for summarising our concerns and thoughts so well. as a trans person, i check ppl's bios regardless cos not everyone have gendered profile pics and it's just nice and respectful to check in general before you're gonna respond by knowing who you're communicating with for some semblance of identity other than name/profile pic
As a cis person I am really grateful that you made this video! The way you explain stuff it so good and you express your feelings so perfect! Thank you
Twitter... That cesspool of endless bickering, nitpicking. The digital version of your average grade school recess area, on steroids! You're very brave to still dwell over there Brennen! It must take a tremendous amount of emotional energy. Thanks for this video, this problem isn't just confined to twitter, alas. Especially for trans people who don't pass instantly as their gender in the cis's eye... 😒 Yes, it can be disheartening.
There's so much I agree with in this video. - If you have 1M twitter followers, almost any engagement with any smaller figure will result in harassment. - It's fine for Alex to attack Jameela; it's part of a celebrity's job description to deal with that in daily life. Getting cancelled is a risk Jamil chose when she became famous. - There's no way people can be gaslit in a public twitter thread. - Trans people face a lot of harassment by many people that don't respect their identity, and even some that do. - Allies who misgendered someone, and were respectfully corrected, should apologize and not make it about themselves / victim blame. But, there's still an itch that hasn't been scratched in the explanation: why is it unreasonable to expect people to put pronouns in their name? In my opinion, in some other situation that doesn't involve a celebrity, a trans person has 4 choices: - put your pronouns in your twitter name / say them as early as possible in conversation - sufficiently pass as the gender - respectfully forgive and offer your pronouns when misgendered for the first time - acknowledge you will randomly suffer misgendering by allies who actually would have actually respected your trans identity, and that your emotional attacks beget emotional retaliation tbh the meme at 34:30 slaps
Thank you for explaining this in a way my parents would be able to understand- I might share the specific part where you talk about people overapologizing because my mom does it EVERYTIME she misgenders me- which is usually multiple times a day and it's obnoxious to hear it constantly.
I waited until watching the whole video before commenting because something occurred to me, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't just repeating something already said. I feel that there's a deeper underlying issue here that wasn't touched on that should probably be presented. To be clear, I completely agree with everything Brennan stated in this video, and all of the tweets that countered Jameela's tweets. In addition, I am not trying to detract the conversation from being about transphobia, because this specific situation is about transphobia, but I wanted to highlight an underlying theme between transphobia such as what Jameela displayed and other acts of ignorance (racism, ableism, etc). If you read through this comment, thanks for your time! I think the huge connecting issue with Jameela's embarrassing display of transphobia as well as other hateful or ignorant fumbles, is one's reliance on their assumptions. People of color could have a story of being racially profiled at a retail store where perhaps few to none of the white people in your life have a story where they were followed around a store by security or loss prevention. People who use a mobility aid such as a wheelchair or cane could likely tell you of a time a stranger told them "You don't *look* like you need that." Some cisgender female athletes, especially black girls, may share with you a time they were prohibited from competing because it was assumed they were transgender or assumed their testosterone levels were "too high" to compete against other women. CISgender athletes being told they cant compete because a coach or parent THINKS they may be trans. What do these examples of racism, ableism, transphobia, and intersectional prejudice have in common? People made unfounded assumptions about a stranger, based on surface level information. I'm not saying racism and transphobia etc. will go away if we consciously check our biases, but a lot fewer people will be affected by racist/ableist/transphobic/homophobic etc. *actions* if everyone who gave a damn checked their biases before acting on them. People *must* stop relying on their assumptions. People *must* actively distrust their own assumptions when interacting with others (obviously unless you are at risk of being harmed). It isn't hard to check people's bio for their pronouns, and it naturally occurs to me to check before I assign a gender or pronouns to someone based on an assumption. You should be actively challenging your own biases and assumptions in every interaction you have, and if you aren't already then you are a performative ally to anything you claim to support. Hope this helps somebody wondering what more they can do or what marginalized people are asking of them.
I would disagree only about the nb vs. enby thing, because I almost exclusively heard nb being used for nonbinary people for YEARS. I'm not arguing which is "correct," only that I don't blame Jameela for using nb in this circumstance, since I still know wide swaths of nonbinary people who still use "nb" in their bio, and I also know a lot of nonbinary people who actually hate using "enby" because they say it feels infantilizing. I think when it comes down to it, the context of the conversation usually clears things up.
As a cis person, thank you for explaining! I'm not on twitter so I didn't know what was going on. I get everyone makes mistakes but god she handled this so badly
Great perspective as usual, Brennan! It's exhausting dealing with this shit, but having voices like yours and other transfolk out here makes a lot of us feel a lot less alone
I love Jameela Jamil but I think she spends too much time on Twitter. Maybe that's true of everyone, especially now. You spend enough time venting your thoughts into the void eventually a bad one is going to slip out. I do it all the time but thankfully I'm not a celebrity and I've never gone viral so I'm repercussion free from my really shitty takes and nasty venomous words aimed at people who probably didn't deserve them. Kind of a catch 22 for celebrities though, you need to present and visible online these days but the more active you are the greater the chance you'll put your foot in your mouth.
Love the video and honestly I can see Jamila watching your video and absorbing a lot from it. Your video does a great job in explaining to non trans folks why it’s so much more hurtful, dangerous, and painful even if that person was rude. ❤
There's also different levels of misgendering, like just casually using the wrong pronoun like "oh she went to the park-- my bad, I mean he" is different than specifically bringing up someone's gender to imply something about who they are as a person like she did - "a woman gaslighting another woman". Like that feels more pointed than simply using the wrong pronoun but it's clear Jameela thinks the latter is all she did, which is probably why she's confused about the backlash she's getting.
Hey Brennen! I know you used to use ey/em as well, I'm curious as how you feel about them now! Do you not like them for yourself anymore, or did you find them difficult to explain to people like (I believe) you said before in one of your streams from a while back? No pressure for an answer or for any type of answer, just curious as someone thinking about neopronouns and maybe using them!
i think brennen may be like myself in that when talking about pronouns with cis people they lean towards the most "normal" sounding pronouns. personally i also use ey/em/eirs pronouns but when talking about queer topics w cis people i stick w he/him because is infinitely easier and they dont het hung up on it
@@jesush8smyguts That makes sense! Especially given the context that this is about trying to get cis allies to,,, actually be an ally and use the correct pronouns for people
Hey! Yeah I kind of dropped ey/em in most contexts because it was getting frustrating to explain to people and they wouldn’t use them anyway.. I think if they were more commonly used and more prevalent I would go by ey/em exclusively, but like I’m still tryna get people to stop using she/her for me you know? so it’s just a battle I don’t have the capacity to fight right now
@@brennenbeckwith I understand. When I was coming out to my parents, I offered them to use they/them for me (my pronouns are actually he/him) as they were finding it too hard to use he/him, I just wanted them to stop using she/her. The annoying thing is, since they/them aren't my pronouns, I was still technically getting misgendered, and after a while I was annoyed enough to lay down a deadline on them switching over. Luckily they're mostly there now. It's weird how some people are more okay using they/them than gendered pronouns, whereas a lot of people hate using they/them!
@@Robb3636 My friend is very binary transmasc and SEETHES when people use they/them for him because sometimes it feels like someone's trying to be "inclusive" at the expense of his actual gender. Like they see him as androgynous instead of "a guy". Super understandable.
This specific case is such a weird one because like... it's not even a pronoun fuckup. Pronouns are nearly unavoidable and highly gendered in English, so referring to someone in the third person forces you to gender them. Here, Jameela saw a stranger on twitter, assumed their gender ~somehow~, and brought it up when she *didn't have to*. I don't know why her gaslighting clapback had to be gendered. If you're not going to take the time to correct your immediate perception of someone's gender from idk a tiny photo?? Then maybe don't go out of your way to bring it up.
The problem with the original wasn't even a use of pronouns. It was an assumption of gender that she used to make a gender-related comment. The response wasn't "triggered", it was pointing out that her criticism was based on incorrect assumptions. Jameela thought she was being clever and is upset that, instead, she looked like an ass. It's all about her feelings. She needs to just accept the embarrassment, shut up, and learn.
If i forget to check a bio, i just don’t use gendered pronouns (or they/them if avoidable) until i finish my reply. It takes a bit more care in my wording, but it’s better than potentially misgendering someone!
Thank you for the video, as a cis ally it was very informative. One thing I am confused by is how strongly you reacted to the term "triggered". I know that conservatives ridicule the term and use it ironically, but it remains a an important word used non-ironically when discussing trauma and mental health in general. I entirely understand and agree on why the way she reacted was bad, but I don't read her use of "triggered" as dismissive or mocking, I read it as deeply sympathetic. When you say "we are not triggered, we are afraid, we are tired, oftentimes misgendering is a malicious act of dehumanizing and a precursor to physical violence so it's not just a mistake to us", I hear " we are not triggered, we are [the clinical definition of triggered]" which is having me scratch my head. Doesn't excuse what she did, and the way she reacted is obviously bad, just wanted to mention it.
This was a really good explanation on this topic. I want to be a good ally and I find myself always learning something new. I did not understand what the issue was with JJs tweets because I realize that I jumped to a cis comfortable assumption about the situation. Thank you so much for your educational (and/or emotional) labor. Now I know better
I really feel like (some) cis people just do not think about it one way or the other, they just automatically use whichever pronoun aligns with their audiovisual perception of someones gender in the moment. I've been out for 8 years, on T for 6 years now, and a friend I've known for 8+ years recently introduced me to a new group of people using they/them for me. He knows I don't use they/them, he knows I've been a binary trans guy for pretty much the entire time I've known him. I definitely don't think he was maliciously trying to misgender me but that kind of makes it worse bc it just means that in his mind he doesn't really see me as a man by default. Cis people will struggle and forget to use they/them pronouns for actual nonbinary people, but binary trans people end up getting they/themed why?? I guess because like, you're far enough in your transition that it doesn't make any sense to call you the opposite binary pronoun, but they also can't accept that you are the gender you identify as.
it's insane how so many cis people don't get this. it is not hard to show the bare minimum of respect by checking someones bio to make sure you are not misgendering them. me and my friend, if we want to rant about something someone has said, we will literally check their bio before having a PRIVATE conversation ranting about them. even in private conversation, about someone we disagree with or don't like. a conversation between just the two of us, a conversation that person - or anyone else - won't ever see. if we can do that, then jameela and every other ally guilty of this can get over themselves and check someones bio before bringing their gender into a very public conversation. especially on a platform they have a huge following on.
So yesterday I had to bring my mom with me to the gender therapist (I'm 27) and my mom started with 'I'm really sorry Ryn but I'm going to slip up on the pronouns because we're talking about past little child you and in my head I'm going to use the pronouns I used for you then' and instead of being on my side, my gender therapist went 'oh yeah me too, it's just so hard and I'm not used to they/them pronouns'. Like... I'm not weird for finding that upsetting, right? (I had to bring my mom because I'm in a super gatekeepy diagnostic trajectory in Europe. We don't have informed consent here.)
You’re not weird at all for finding that strange, it’s baffling that your therapist, of all people, would say something like that when that’s something she’s supposed to be specialized in. I’m sorry you had to go through that
Dang, I hope you’re able to switch to a different therapist who is actually supportive of you. Gendering someone correctly, regardless of if you’re talking about them before coming out and/or transitioning, is a basic thing any qualified gender therapist should do
That’s definitely weird from a gender therapist to behave that way, but your mum’s experience is pretty common. Some people when talking about the past automatically put themselves in the headspace of the past. I’m genderqueer but relate to that tbh. I know it’s probably upsetting regardless, but I think it’s good she at least offered the explanation, presumably to try to indicate to you that she wasn’t trying to be dismissive of what you now go by. She should still try to be mindful of her language, but when talking about old memories I think it’s common to slip up. The gender therapist’s comments don’t seem appropriate at all though.
🤨 I understand your mum apologising in advance if she messes up (though she should still 100% make the effort to not make that mistake). You're still valid if that bothers you ofc. Your gender therapist on the other hand should get a different job if pronouns are too hard for them. Like if this were even applied to a situation where nobody got hurt by the mistake you'd still tell them maybe this isn't their calling. If you're like "hey sorry if I slip up and speak English instead of French, I'm not very good at French" and your French teacher was like "oh yah don't worry about it, same", you'd be wondering why on earth you're paying them???
You really can't expect that others will automatically know what you prefer to be called nor can you expect that most will change how they think about you and how that's reflected in their words. It is what it is. Most people dont care that much about strangers. It's just something you have to accept. You cant control how peoole think, you cant control how they talk and you can't expect them to see your thought process and internal identity when they dont live in your head. Ive had my name buthcered for years. I dont get upset because I've learned how to live with it and lower the expectations i place on strangers.
brennen i don't think there's anything wrong with you being frustrated with this issue! i think you are being very diplomatic about an issue that is exhausting for you. that takes a LOT of emotional labor to do, so don't ever feel like you're not allowed to be miffed about an issue that is often a result of plain ignorance 💕 (i say this bcuz i know you were worried about coming off as rude but honestly you said nothing out of pocket)
it's funny how even someone like me who is comfortable as any gender, and who therefore would abso-fucking-lutely not understand what the experience of being misgendered is like, can still listen to trans folks and just trust them about their own experience... how many times have we seen cis women and men loose their shit when if they somehow get misgendered, or if their baby gets gendered differently than what they were assigned at birth? you'd think it would be easier for them to get it
Making a big deal out of this and piling on her on Twitter is bad for the cause overall. Feels incredibly short sighted. The left would be better off if more people learned the importance of picking your battles
I’ve misgendered ppl irl mostly whenI first meet them and they aren’t clear (and I don’t ask). I’ve also mis gendered folks when they recently changed their pronoun and I was unaware. I just start using the correct pronoun and don’t apologize because I feel it would be more for me and not for them. I’m sure they noticed and I rather not make a big deal out of it but I also feel maybe they think I’m a jerk. Bringing it up way later would just be embarrassing for both of us? It’s honestly what feels good in my heart but maybe I’m coming up with excuses. What I won’t do is blame it on others.
Idk if this is just me, but personally the cis guilt is what makes me feel like I have to transition too, I wanted to transition before it but now I feel like I have to or I'll never be gendered correctly Cis ppl be so dramatic lol
I feel like Jameela was using the word "triggered" with its original meaning - something that triggers anxiety, PTSD flashbacks or in this case, gender dysphoria. Idk if anyone remembers but a few years ago when conservatives started using "triggered" to mean offended, many disabled people called this out as incredibly ableist and we fought so hard to not have the original meaning erased, as it is important language we need. So I really wish people would stop only using or even understanding the meaning of "triggered" as what reactionaries turned it to.
Why would she not check someone’s acc before replying? I always check peoples accounts even if it’s an old thread I’m not on because you can see if they’re a child, they’re not fluent in English, a troll, a throw away acc, their age in general because most the time looking at someone’s acc contextualises them and makes you not feel the need to reply? Surely someone with her following always checks peoples acc? Cos so many people are trolls or have 0 followers? I think she needs to really start checking people out a lot of stuff in their bio sometimes. Like I check just out of curiosity most the time when someone says smt im surprised or disagree with. Also bc often you can work out someone’s age and political opinions so it helps contextualise it.
(A lot of this is infodumping, it probably is a little condescending, my bad lol) I think her usage of "triggered" comes from a background of mental health here. Before it got co-opted by the alt right, "triggered" meant someone having an intense negative emotional response to innocuous stimuli, mostly used in the context of neurodivergency. It still kind of does mean this, just less so. It could apply to an autistic person getting severe sensory overload from bright lights, a recovering alcoholic relapsing when they smell wine, a person with an eating disorder spiraling when being expected to step on a scale in a doctor's office, etc. It was most prominently used with PTSD, wherein triggers are often arcane or feel disconnected from their source. I have PTSD, and fall (the whole fucking season) is a trigger for me. So is people using the :o or :0 emoticons or ending a sentence with a space and then a period (like so) . Up until recently, vampires were one (they still upset me but not to the point of a full-on flashback). All of these have genuine explanations related to the trauma I experienced, but they're all... y'know, kinda silly? Like, it would take a solid 5 minutes of backstory to explain why someone's grammar error in their text made me lock myself in my room for an hour. The issue is just in the cultural context the term now has, and the way that it relates to the act of misgendering. The alt-right co-opted the term in a genuine desire to mock people on the left discussing mental health and using the word "triggered" to mean what it legitimately means. It spiraled so far out that now, it's half a term everyone uses to describe someone having an intense negative emotional response to innocuous stimuli, but like, mockingly. It's also half dogwhistle for the alt-right. ND people have been trying to reclaim this term for fucking AGES, and it mostly hasn't stuck. Misgendering also just isn't really innocuous to trans people, and there's a really insidious undercurrent when considering how transness is often equated to mental illness. A lot of other people in the comments pointed out the very good context that Alex was questioning whether or not Jameela has EDS. To be honest, without that, I'd be a lot less comfortable with the way she used "triggered" and with the way she used "gaslighting". I don't think Alex was "actually" gaslighting her, but it's very common for disabled people (particularly people with invisible illnesses) to have society as a whole try to convince us that we aren't disabled. I've had the same thing happen to me. I think the usage of the term on a societal scale, to describe the process of disabled people being stripped of the foundation of how we view our bodies and minds, is a genuinely useful one. Not to mention that it's a huge dick move to scrutinize someone's history in order to figure out if they're disabled or not, or, God forbid, the section of the Internet that is determined to """prove""" every disabled/ND person isn't """actually""" disabled/ND, and how that plays into long-running issues with the way people discuss disability/neurodivergency. (Also imo Twitter users have a history of seeing people use a term in an incorrect context, but in a way that's still useful, and going scorched earth over it. See also, emotional labor.) Like, is it gaslighting in a relational sense? Not really! Does it play into societal patterns that could be described as gaslighting? For sure! If her usage of the term "gaslighting" was inaccurate or overblown, I'd be inclined to think she was a bit clumsier when describing trans people as "triggered". I dunno, I just don't see it as malice. There's a lot about Jameela Jamil that comes across as pretty performative (I've never been a huge fan of how she speaks on behalf of plus-sized people when it comes to body positivity), but I really think her discussions of neurodivergency are genuine. She's trying to reclaim a term as someone who has struggled with mental illness, not using it as a dogwhistle -- it just so happens that the term "triggered" has baggage in trans-specific spaces.
So I've flipped between any/all pronouns and they/them pronouns. The reason being is that I think about non-english speakers, and I'm pretty lax about my pronouns even if they might be they/them at any given time. I am AFAB and am for the most part, comfortable with my female gender presentation. I don't know if this will change. Although, my pronouns have changed a lot too, so... idk, I just don't feel as upset anymore if someone misgenders me. However, I realize that this isn't the case for many other nonbinary and trans people alike. Like I know this nonbinary person a little bit, I try not to ask them about their gender and/or surgeries/hormones they might have or want to have or go on. Instead, I try to get to know them as a person, even if a little bit during work. They are usually a unit clerk at the front desk in Maternity and even have their pronouns under their identification tag. I kind of wanted to connect by making light conversation that I am also nonbinary, and PREFER they/them pronouns. However, I realize that not everyone can adhere to that, not even my own mother. I'm also just considering to moving my pronouns back to any/all just because I don't care much anymore about it for me. It does suck. It does hurt. Maybe it hurts a little less for me because I'm not as trans as you, Brennen? Maybe, I don't know anymore. I'm throwing in the gender towel. I get sick of trying to figure it out. Yes, I am exhausted. Maybe I'm just a lazy trans person? lol.
I understand this feeling but also twitter is almost like fb comment sections at times and most dont look at profiles before replying. So I can see her point although the tweet is misguided as it drives traffic towards someone with a smaller account and thats a power issue. I use she/they and have my pronouns in the profile not my name on twitter but I don't expect people to always check my profile if we are in a back and forth chat etc as unless they think they might want to follow me or are curious as to my politics etc. For example, if someone trolls me I tend to check their profile to see if it is a one off etc and reporting that hate.
the amount of times ive been misgendered and I ALWAYS ENDED UP BEING THE ONE SAYING "no, it's fine" bc they catastrophize instead of just being like "sorry, my bad. ill get it right next time. OR wont happen again"
I get annoyed when people ask me basic questions that I already have in my bio since I always check the bio of whoever I'm talking to when we interact for the first time. It's just something I learned from being a minor on the internet, just something that seems RESPONSIBLE when you're talking to anyone online. Social media platforms didn't add the pronouns section to the bio for no reason. It's just so weird that especially if you're having an ongoing argument with someone that she wouldn't look at their bio at any point. This whole thing could've been avoided if she had just thought it through a little more from the start.
Eheue I'm cis and I think it's ridiculous to ask people (anyone really) that if they want their correct pronouns used that they need to add it to their name. It's true not everyone sees bios (I don't interact with people I don't know lol) but the normal thing if you misgender someone is to apologize and use the correct pronouns. None of this "you should have done this" correcting crap 😒😒
Does anyone have the original link because throughout all of this I haven't seen that. Wouldn't change that the misgendering was wrong but I wanna see the whole thing
I'd just add that when you misgender someone, it can also be good to apologize. Like, correct yourself, if the situation is appropriate give a quick and short apology, and move on, is what I would say. I'm not disagreeing with Brennen on this and I don't think the apology is always necessary, but especially in cases like this one with jameela, it might have been good to do so. Not in the awful over-exagerated way Brennen explained here, but... I guess I just don't want cis people looking at this video and similar narratives and thinking they should never apologize. Depending on the person, and how they misgendered me, or how often it happens, I might want an apology just as a sign that they recognise that misgendering someone is wrong and bad, that they didn't do it on pupose, they're not just correcting themselves to be pc and avoid consequences, they actually care about not hurting me, etc. Most of the time it's not necessary, but still...
It seems like in the tweet when Jameela says "nice try" she's thinking that the person calling her out for misgendering them is doing it for some sort of gotcha moment rather than a person wanting to have their gender respected and that stands out as a bit off.
You mentioned the annoyance of dealing with cis guilt when they misgender, but I'm confused what I'm supposed to feel. I do feel bad if I slip up. Or is it more if I spend too much energy on apologizing about it and saying I feel bad vs just correcting myself and moving on? I want to know what you mean so I know the best response I can give if I'm in that type of situation.
So, I’m a cis female, and I’ve been wanting to ask those who use pronouns different than the ones they were assigned at birth a question, and after watching this video, I feel like this is a good time to ask it. So, this is kind of a 2 pronged question. 1) What should I do if I meet someone and I am unsure of their pronouns (e.g. in person where there isn’t a way for me to check like a Twitter bio)? Should I ask them? I think that would be better than assuming, but could it also feel invalidating as an indication of not totally passing? Would it just be better to use they/them until they tell me otherwise or I find out later on, or could that also feel invalidating to those who don’t use they/them? 2) Should I ask every new person I meet their pronouns? Instinctively, I would only think to ask androgynous people their pronouns, but even if the person appears to be very masculine or very feminine, should I still ask just to be sure? Kind of going back to the first prong, would that feel more or less invalidating? I know I sound like what Brennen was talking about with cis guilt; I just want to be as considerate as possible. Listening to Brennen made me realize that I don’t have to feel so much pressure around it, and so if I’m in a situation where I’m not sure of/can’t find someone’s pronouns, I will just ask them, but I still want to hear what people who experience being misgendered think and if there is a better way for me to approach a situation like that.
1) Yes, ask but ask discreetly. You can do this by passing a note or whispering to them. If you can't ask discreetly then you can use they/them, if they use other pronouns they will most likely tell you later on in a safe enviornment 2) You can but again, ask discreetly. the reason I stress to ask discreetly is because in a lot of places people are very transphobic and someone saying their pronouns could put them in serious danger
@@pebbles3609 That is such a great point. I wouldn’t have thought to do that, but you’re right, so I if I need to ask, I will definitely ask discreetly. Thank you for helping :)
@@pebbles3609@Jessie_Bee I second being discreet, and would also say that if you're in an environment where it would actually be dangerous for a person to be outed as trans, I would consider not using they/them so as not to draw attention to the person (whether they're trans or not, it might make transphobic people think they are and respond accordingly). Honestly, as uncomfortable as it might be, maybe choose one of the binary pronouns (based on which would cause less bigotry basically) and stick with those until you're in an environment where you can actually ask them and apologize if necessary. If possible I would use the same pronouns others in the space are using for the person, even if you suspect those aren't the right ones, so as to again not draw undue attention to them. I also wouldn't correct people unless you know the person and they've told you they want you to correct people who misgender them. Idk what it's like for people in very progressive places but this is what I'd ideally like to happen with me as someone from a transphobic country! I would like the agency to out myself or not depending on my assessment of how safe the situation is, which trans people are generally much better able to do than cis people. Also yeah your intuition is right, I would definitely not only ask the pronouns of androgynous and/or visibly trans people - the point of asking pronouns is that we do it for everyone, no matter how gender-conforming or GNC or cis or trans they appear. Only asking GNC people is essentially outing us by default! Ultimately though this is all very context dependent, and each trans person has their own opinions and preferences. Hope this helps! 😎
Protagonist; "I am (whatever). My pronouns are (whatever). Reply; "Oh, I'm sorry. I hope you are well soon". Protagonist; "I AM NOT ILL". Reply; "No dear. Of course you aren't" said with pity
What I find hilarious is when someone with their pronoun button on lapel takes a swing and a miss and misgenders me. Like, why? Don't refer to me as a 'lady' especially when I don't look like one.
40 minutes into this video and Jameela just keeps digging the hole HUH (the way she is talking about this situation is so immature and so hurtful oh my god. Sometimes it's ok to put the Twitter down and take a deep breath jfjdjd)
I mean this with all respect but I wish white people would stop policing the abbreviation nb, while it does mean non black, abbreviations can mean multiple things and you can usually pick up the context for which one is being used from the rest of the conversation, it's not hard. I personally hate being called enby because it feels infantilizing and yet as a black nb person I've had whites tell me I'm wrong for that. There's no issue with her using that here, the rest of it is a mess tho
I seriously think every cis person needs to watch this. You explain our frustrations so perfectly and still give the people who don't understand grace.
I hate being misgendered, but I rarely correct someone. I feel so embarrassed and shameful about it because I internalized the rhetoric that trans people are sooo annoying for pushing their pronouns. I'm in college and I don't even make my transness or pronouns known to anyone. I'm so afraid of people learning I'm trans and treating me weirdly or PURPOSELY misgendering me. I have this insecurity that I don't deserve to be gendered correctly bc I don't pass well enough and people would not actually see me as my gender even if I came out.
If the world and politics was actually compassionate and understanding toward trans people, I would feel comfortable being openly trans because I know people would respect me, but the current climate makes it impossible to feel safe. I just wish gender non conforming and trans identities were normalized and already considered when meeting someone new rather than this anxiety of should I tell them? what if they don't respect me? what if they actually just see me as my agab but want to be nice? Rationally, I know asking for pronouns isn't a big demand, but cis people MAKE it a big deal and that only makes me want to stay in the closet bc I don't want to be seen as an annoying sensitive person.
Oof yep, hits hard. What helped for me was coming out in a social anxiety therapy group and asking people to use my pronouns. I shat bricks from sheer panic, but what I learned was that real people out in the world are really not that bothered. Most of them had never even heard of being nonbinary. They don't understand you, but they just want to be nice people. Online there's endless waves of hate, but that's not reflective of most people out in the world. Online you just constantly get confronted with the small percentage of people who are bothered by your existence for no reason at all, and choose to make that everyone else's problem.
Disclaimer: this was in Amsterdam. If you're in rural America or Poland or something... yeah maybe don't do this.
Most people won't purposely misgender you and IME it's actually the easiest to deal with. It's the accidents that are hard because that is a lack of effort on their part. They don't care enough to be careful!
@@1917yee but. You are right.
A lot of ppl aren't gonna be purposely dicks about your pronouns.
And I hope op will feel safe enough to come out at some point.
As brutal as it sounds, if there are people in your life who on being told your pronouns choose to not make the effort... well now you know their quality at least in this regard. Think of it this way, you are currently (potentially) dealing with people who wouldn't respect your identity and pronouns, you just don't know yet. In my opinion it's better to know than not.
ME TOO OMFG. Literally and I even joke to people when I feel comfortable enough and say "yea im a they/them-er" just so there is no pressure or like it even feels like im invalidating myself a bit by joking but i do not like when anyone misgenders me, i feel entirely disconnected from it. Especially at work, even at my last job I was OUT and coworkers still misgendered me. It's so annoying, and I havent done anything medical yet and it makes me feel invalid because i don't even look or sound "passable" and i KNOW people argue that nonbinary doesnt look a certain way, but to society it does.
For me it's the part where she never talked about this before or had her pronouns in her name until she thought it would be convenient for her defense.
I mean I think it makes sense for her to put her pronouns in her name if she is going to say people should. I also get why this interaction would make her suggest that 🤷
@@juniperfox1064 I could imagine that not looking terrible, if she had done it with a completely different attitude. If she had said "I'm sorry. I need to practice not assuming peoples genders. This is not to blame the person I misgendered, because it was my responsibility not to do that, but I just put my pronouns in my name to help normalize that for people who want their pronouns extra visible.", that would have been a whole lot less nasty than what she actually did, which was say several times that it was the other person's fault for not having done something she only decided she wanted to do right then and there. It's like if she catcalled someone and then said "it's not my fault, because their skirt was too short and that's just what happens when you dress like that, and while I have never believed this until now, I just changed into a longer skirt, because we should all be covering up to prevent this", like. No, it's not a good look.
it drives me nuts how so many people say "the person with the sensitivity around how they're gendered" as if cis people don't also feel hurt and upset when they're misgendered. Just because it happens less often doesn't mean that trans people are the ONLY people who get misgendered.
As a cis person who used to get midgendered all the time, you are so right
your impression of a cis person overreacting to misgendering someone made me chuckle. this situation makes me glad i don't look at twitter anymore.
fr. the hand over the mouth got me
It was so accurate
It disturbs me how much she acts like the season 1 version of her Good Place character
the way she flippantly misuses the terms “gaslighting” and “triggered” to dismiss trans voices without recognizing the true meaning of those terms makes me so frustrated too
jameela really went to someones profile to dunk on their follower count while saying that she doesn't go to peoples profile??? make it make sense
As a cis person who’s done the self flagellating pronoun apology (though not in years, I’ve learned a lot and continue to learn), a thousand thank yous for this video
Jameela isn't sorry. She's just embarrassed she got caught being lazy, and now she's making excuses to everyone, including herself, for why she shouldn't feel guilty. I know because I've seen this time and time again, especially in the workplace. People will claim to support queer rights, or even be queer themselves, then when they misgender someone (e.g. me), they'll immediately have this gut reaction to make excuses for why their lack of effort is justified, and why their hurting / humiliating / endangering another person in public should be forgiven. Zero care is given to the person they may have put in genuine harm's way with their words and actions.
People who are genuinely sorry don't make excuses for themselves. They say they're sorry and ask how they can do better. They don't say "Transpeople should do this then," or "If you care about your identity that much," etc. They immediately look for how *they* can do better. Jameela isn't doing that. She's trying to tell transpeople how *we* can do better to prevent her from making that mistake again. We're not her parents. She's a grown-up. It's not our responsibility, nor anyone else's, to protect her or any other grown cisgender adult from their own fallibility and laziness.
To illustrate with an example outside of transness:
A and B are on a sidewalk, both walking to the same place. A is naturally a faster walker than B, but B is walking in front of A and has a cup of hot coffee in their hand. In a moment of impatience, A hurries forward to walk in front, knocking B's elbow by accident and causing B to burn themselves with the hot coffee. Should A say:
1) "Oh, I'm so sorry! That was careless of me. Are you alright?"
2) "Whoa! Well, I'm *obviously* sorry you got hurt, but you shouldn't be walking with hot coffee on the sidewalk like that. And why didn't you tell me you were carrying coffee? Also, if you really can't walk any faster, you should get out of the way when someone's behind you."
Which is a more genuine apology? Which version would be spoken if A actually, truly gave a shit about their fellow human? Which version would tell you that A likes to think they're a polite and caring person, but really, that's only true when they don't have to share the sidewalk?
It's easy to say you're an ally. It's a lot harder to actually be one. Those who call themselves allies, only to make excuses when it's time to humble themselves and turn their words into action, will get no sympathy from me.
A 10/10 response and totally incapsulates my feelings against her points... she's so in the wrong here that she's seemed to forget how actually speaking to someone works...This is so so sad...
My pronouns are they/them. I am openly out at my work. Cis people at my work royally butchering my pronouns and then making excuses I can tiredly wave away, because whatever you know. What really gets me is my co-worker who identified themselves to me as nonbinary and says they don't mind what pronouns are used for them when I asked, but will CONSTANTLY misgender me. And then make excuses like the cis people. You.... should know how much this hurts? Like what the hell is going on in your brain please. It hurts so much more. It even makes part of my brain question if they are trans or if they just identify that way because they are a drag queen? (which in it's essence is about playing with gender/roles,etc) But I recognize that is harmful thinking and a dangerous train of thought to follow. I am not inside their brain. My brain is just trying to come up with reasons for the hurt they're causing I guess. Trans people can be dicks too, I know. Probably the simplest explanation.
edit: I used to have another trans coworker, and he would use my correct pronouns, but NEVER once corrected my other coworkers when they misgendered me. :/ Y'know?....
@@puck2470 You're certainly not alone in this experience. I'm a binary transman, but I've also experienced the frustration and hurt that comes with being left out to dry by fellow transpeople, as well as self-proclaimed queer allies. I have my own thoughts about why this happens, and I think a lot of it has to do with the fear of being visible, the desire to be welcomed into a cisnormative social hierarchy, and the way enbies and AFAB transpeople are often infantilised or trivialised by cisgender communities, but none of that can take away the sting of betrayal when a fellow transperson won't stand with and support you, especially in the workplace.
she didn't even misgender them by using the wrong pronound lol she called them a woman. it's just weird to assume a random stranger online's gender especially if ur gonna make a point about gender lol. just take a second to check their bio lol jeez it's not that hard. and the whole "if you don't wanna be misgendered put your pronouns in your name 😝" is not only insulting but she didn't even use the wrong pronouns lol she called them a woman
and the whole "YOU'RE GASLIGHTING ME!!" thing... i didn't see the thread but like gaslighting is a real manipulation tactic abusers use.. especially since jameela just said "they were rude to me" i really doubt they were emotionally abusing Jameela lol they were probably just disagreeing with jameela lol... just a bonkers term to throw away like that
Yes! This is exactly what I was thinking!! It's one thing if you casually don't think to check the bio in a response unrelated to gender but like if you're literally going to make a point about a person's gender you should probably check it's accurate??
Imagine if this user was a cis man and jameela had made the same mistake, would she be making her point about pronouns in the same way?? probably not!
They literally tweeted calling themselves a woman 2 weeks before the troll tweets to Jameela, never called themselves nonbinary before this *and* had she as a pronoun in their bio. This was very transparently just a way to drag her over something else since her and her friends were trolling Jameela at the time.
Yeah Jameela shouldn’t have said people need to have pronouns in their names and all that other stuff. But it’s frustrating honestly to see this huge focus on and example made of someone who’s own friends didn’t know they’re apparently nb since they nonstop said that they were a woman on their own account.
@@galaxychar Oh snap, how did this come out? I can't find anything about this. They were a tiny account and privated almost immediately so it's hard to find anything
@@galaxychar yeah I heard this too, but I can't find the original tweet that Jameela was originally responding to or the tweet where the nonbinary person allegedly was referring to themselves as a woman. If anyone has any links pls I'm begging y'all 🙏 hopefully not deleted yet or anything
I've seen Twitter mobs check people's pronouns before saying fuck them/her/him/(other). There is some weird humor in this, I just haven't been able to use my hungover brain to formulate it into a sentence and laugh
Theres some Twitter post along the lines of "lemme get this bitch pronouns before I cuss they ass out" which encapsulates
uncomfortable with how much of this convo is headed by white people and how much of it disappears the fact that jameela has been fielding racist, ableist, and sexist abuse on twitter for years. white trans people are reading this as her unequivocally saying "whether i gender you correctly is dependent on how you address me". but it is clear to me, as a tpoc, that she is expressing frustration over this non-malicious accident being centered over the actively malicious harassment she received.
obviously, not assuming the gender of strangers is the correct thing to do rather than asking ppl to include pronouns in their display name. she's wrong for implying otherwise. but the malice people have been ascribing to her is not lost on me.
it's been a trend ever since jameela broke into the mainstream to gaslight her emotions + lived reality - see that time everyone on twitter was contesting whether or not she "really" had EDS.
(edit: apparently the tweet in question was literally accusing of her of faking her illness, so, there you go)
Yeah
Definitely agree.
Absolutely, well said
One of the only level-headed responses I’ve seen about this. We can’t pretend like this isn’t a continuation of white people loving to pick on her because it is. I’m non-binary myself but I can still see that people love dunking on this woman for the dumbest of reasons.
This a thousand times, it's just the twitter mob waiting for a minor non-vicious accident for an excuse to dog pile this woman once again.
a lot of people use nb contextually for nonbinary people, and if it makes sense in the conversation theres really not a problem, especially since i usually see these terms used with non black as NB and nonbinary as nb, just my two cents because i hate being called an enby tbh
literally like. as a black nonbinary person context clues are available and i fully do not care that those two terms have the same acronym LMAO
@@tdeggzlike cbt has drastically different meanings depending on context but we still use it for both
same for mlm (men loving men/multilevel marketing), the worst thing I’ve seen come out of it is a moment of confusion before people catch onto context cues
@@dcdrafts marxist-leninist-maoists have entered the chat to confuse further
I wish people would stop using the word gaslighting to mean "someone being rude to me" or anything other than the actual meaning.
We are right to be frustrated when our "allies" (genuinely, cis people who care about us) are the ones asking us to accommodate them. When it is constantly our time and effort being used to aid their comfort. Well spoken video, I love hearing your thoughts!!
Yet if you keep attacking your most public allies so viciously you do more harm to your own community. The way all of you people piled on her. With friends like this who needs enemies
i havent watched the video yet, but my own personal reaction to her tweets - it really isnt that hard to check someone's twitter bio for their pronouns. i do it all the time, because i care about not misgendering people and because im trans and been misgendered myself. jameela jamil expecting trans people to do something extra for her instead of just not assuming people's pronouns, regardless of checking their bio, is mind boggling to me
and you know what? nobodys perfect. sometimes you forget to check and assume incorrectly. all you have to do is apologize without any excuse. just say "im sorry, i didnt check," and edit the message in question (or delete it if youre on a platform that doesnt allow editing)
mind boggling? idk, it is reasonable to me not to look at the bio of every person you reply to on twitter.
@@juniperfox1064 i agree to an extent, however i think if you’re going to deliberately mention gender, as jameela did, then you should take the 5 seconds to check the persons bio
You cannot be serious…. Y’all are so chronically online you should’ve been embarrassed typing out that sentence. Jesus.
@@boybriar if you're going to reference a fact about someone, why wouldn't you check it first? How is it chronically online to make sure you are correct in your assumptions. If you don't feel like checking then just don't mention the thing
To be fair, I can understand how, when you're in the middle of an argument and emotion is high, you might not think to check someone's bio. However, oh my god, do NOT go on and on about it, then blame other people for your wrong assumptions! It's not other people's job to make sure you don't mess up. She's essentially saying, "You made me do it," which is a dangerous perspective that justifies a lot of serious abuse.
i’ve seen Jameela’s tweet several times but i JUST NOW realized she said “put your pronouns in your name, i just did.” she JUST did??? so she wasn’t even living by the advice she’s giving trans people now?? so prior to that point, someone could’ve misgendered her and by her own logic it was her own fault?? and she’s acting like she wouldn’t be “triggered” if someone used pronouns other than she/her for her?? i’m so annoyed lmfao fuming
cis-splaining at it's finest! I really hope jameela sees this and some serious self-reflection happens. brennen, thank you for this nuanced, thoughtful explanation of an issue that the community endure on a daily basis.
it's disturbing to me how much she works with trans people on Legendary and how much she seems to be backpedaling on the understanding i thought she had
Some people drop their act when it no longer works in their favor.
Nice video Brennen, I agree with everything you said and my heart goes out to all the trans people hurt by this incessant bs regurgitated by well-meaning cis people. I appreciate your straightforwardness because lots of cis people needes to hear it.
From memory!
the original tweet was something along the lines of bringing up the accusations of Jameela Jamil lying in the past about illnesses, as a quote retweet which Jamil responded to with an article debunking said lies.
"if we don't do more to prevent this mistake-" Just read people's bios it's so easy
This has been so enlightening for me. I thought I understood how to best address misgendering and the ways in which it affects others, but I never considered that it might be traumatizing or alarming because of how tough it is to live as a trans person. Thank you for giving your two cents on this issue, Brennen!
I tend to read everyone's bio mostly because if I'm gonna have an argument in the internet, I don't wanna argue with a child.
Your impression of a cis person overreacting to misgendering someone is so spot on.
I almost skipped this video - I wasn't interested in more Twitter drama. But this goes way beyond that, and I can't imagine a better response to the situation than this one.
As it listened it quickly became obvious this event is almost the same kind of thing as so many previous incidents related to a person with privilege who thinks they are allies engaging in behavior that ignores the reality of what black people, women, gay people, poor people, disabled people, trans people, etc., live with.
I think the key to overcoming this kind of behavior in oneself (i.e., as a more privileged person) - in addition to shutting up and listening - is recognizing that we grew up in a society that teaches us to think like oppressors, and we internalized those thought patterns as children. So of course, no matter our good intentions, we are going to keep on doing things that emerge from the kind of thinking we were indoctrinated with as children - things that are ignorant and hurtful. So we have to expend a lot of effort working on ourselves so we can change. As a cis white guy, I've said and done plenty of things that now embarrass me. And as a bisexual who grew up poor, I've said and done a lot of things very hurtful to myself. But I'm trying to change - I hope Jameela can do the same.
In any case - great video!
I feel like if pronouns were literally plastered everywhere, the next thing would be "Yeah, you have your pronouns right there, but they're not legible!" and then it keeps going until we have a cis-approved pronoun font...
I feel like at the very least if you're going to guess someone's gender you should own up to it if you're wrong. I think it's true that you can get away with guessing most of the time so I do understand people being lazy and just defaulting to that, but you can't blame someone else because you were working on autopilot.
It really reminds me of a person on Tiktok who faked a disorder and people constantly misgendered them while talking about them and it was the worst vibes all around.
You talking about being misgendered after talking about your pronouns hits so hard. I interrupted someone who was reading something about me, said my pronouns and they said “yeah” and then misgendered me repeatedly seconds later. For me it tends to happen the most in professional contexts and I have no idea how to navigate it because people keep ignoring me having my pronouns in my zoom name and email signature etc and continue to misgender me and it’s getting to the point where I don’t want to be around anyone or say anything about who I am.
Jamilla is talking absolute nonsense, a lot of cis people just do not care about truly trying to respect us or reframe how they see gender. It’s too much work (which I get because even for us as trans and/or non binary people, it’s not easy to dismantle gendered assumptions) so they’d rather, as you said, feel comfortable. To hell with our mental health or self esteem, I guess. As long as cis people get to feel comfortable. Ugh, I’m so grumpy about this.
What you’re saying about getting surgery and hormones to be gendered correctly is really interesting to me because I was wondering if it was wrong to consider starting T mostly because I’m gutted by being misgendered (and want the majority of the changes ofc) when in an ideal world where cis people didn’t misgender me or assume things about me based on my body, I don’t think I would feel a burning need for T in quite the *same* way. I know social dysphoria is a thing but I wasn’t sure if it was okay to transition in certain ways mostly for that reason. The interplay between internal dysphoria and social dysphoria is really confusing to me and I would love to see a video on it because I personally don’t have a clue how to unpack any of it! Sorry, I went off on a tangent but would love to hear thoughts on this especially from other POC because I feel like race also impacts this as well.
So I'm a POC and nonbinary, and I definitely understand what you mean abt social dysphoria vs internal dysphoria. I think its harder for us than white trans folk because we have a socially determined way we can present gender without being subjected to violence for it within and outside of our communities. There are very specific experiences of gender that we have that intersect with racial stereotypes and other forms of oppression (ex the "spicy Latina" stereotype which narrowly defines the acceptable forms of expression for Latina femme people in Western spaces). Gender as we understand it in the West is a direct result of colonization and we are often forced to conform to this binary which upholds white women as the pinnacle of femininity and white men as the pinnacle of masculinity even within the queer community, and it takes time to unlearn that. Idk I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate and rediscover queerness and gender nonconformity when so many sources/records were erased during colonization.
Highly recommend watching Gendering Is a Luxury that I Can't Afford by Foreign Man in a Foreign Land, he discusses gender w other black and/or trans people and how BIPOC folk have less room to express or explore our gender identities because of the already narrow roles we're forced into.
@@zkkitty2436 ahhh, thank you so much for this comment. Yesss, exactly what you say about being compared to white norms! I will elaborate in a bit but wanted to respond.
God it really does boil down to what you said: cis people have to spend two seconds checking a bio before using a pronoun (which is either 1 click or hovering over an icon) or saying sorry quickly and moving on. and we're hoping that years of hormones and surgery will stop us being misgendered on a daily basis. Tiring!! Not to mention that having pronouns in our bios already makes people act weird, but in our display names? I LOVE having a target on me and the more obvious it is the better
disappointed with jameela. i just think that cis ppl just dont understand the consequences of misgendering. often for trans issues, us trans ppl know the solution which is just check the bio and not a solution by a cis person and it's ok to be wrong which i think she is very strongheaded of her. thank you brennen for summarising our concerns and thoughts so well. as a trans person, i check ppl's bios regardless cos not everyone have gendered profile pics and it's just nice and respectful to check in general before you're gonna respond by knowing who you're communicating with for some semblance of identity other than name/profile pic
"hey guys, here's a cute little thing YOU can do so that I can be less accountable! :)" (the cis perspective lololol)
As a cis person I am really grateful that you made this video! The way you explain stuff it so good and you express your feelings so perfect! Thank you
Twitter... That cesspool of endless bickering, nitpicking. The digital version of your average grade school recess area, on steroids!
You're very brave to still dwell over there Brennen! It must take a tremendous amount of emotional energy. Thanks for this video, this problem isn't just confined to twitter, alas. Especially for trans people who don't pass instantly as their gender in the cis's eye... 😒 Yes, it can be disheartening.
There's so much I agree with in this video.
- If you have 1M twitter followers, almost any engagement with any smaller figure will result in harassment.
- It's fine for Alex to attack Jameela; it's part of a celebrity's job description to deal with that in daily life. Getting cancelled is a risk Jamil chose when she became famous.
- There's no way people can be gaslit in a public twitter thread.
- Trans people face a lot of harassment by many people that don't respect their identity, and even some that do.
- Allies who misgendered someone, and were respectfully corrected, should apologize and not make it about themselves / victim blame.
But, there's still an itch that hasn't been scratched in the explanation: why is it unreasonable to expect people to put pronouns in their name?
In my opinion, in some other situation that doesn't involve a celebrity, a trans person has 4 choices:
- put your pronouns in your twitter name / say them as early as possible in conversation
- sufficiently pass as the gender
- respectfully forgive and offer your pronouns when misgendered for the first time
- acknowledge you will randomly suffer misgendering by allies who actually would have actually respected your trans identity, and that your emotional attacks beget emotional retaliation
tbh the meme at 34:30 slaps
Idk why but Jameela gives me the energy of including straight into LGBT+
Very much Lena Dunham vibes
Tbf she is bi/pan but yeah
@@georgiam228 then why she so ignorant and cringe???
@Venus Rhodonite sorry the first article I looked up said bi or pan but I do see the article under it has a quote saying she identifies as queer
Thank you for explaining this in a way my parents would be able to understand- I might share the specific part where you talk about people overapologizing because my mom does it EVERYTIME she misgenders me- which is usually multiple times a day and it's obnoxious to hear it constantly.
I waited until watching the whole video before commenting because something occurred to me, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't just repeating something already said. I feel that there's a deeper underlying issue here that wasn't touched on that should probably be presented.
To be clear, I completely agree with everything Brennan stated in this video, and all of the tweets that countered Jameela's tweets. In addition, I am not trying to detract the conversation from being about transphobia, because this specific situation is about transphobia, but I wanted to highlight an underlying theme between transphobia such as what Jameela displayed and other acts of ignorance (racism, ableism, etc). If you read through this comment, thanks for your time!
I think the huge connecting issue with Jameela's embarrassing display of transphobia as well as other hateful or ignorant fumbles, is one's reliance on their assumptions.
People of color could have a story of being racially profiled at a retail store where perhaps few to none of the white people in your life have a story where they were followed around a store by security or loss prevention.
People who use a mobility aid such as a wheelchair or cane could likely tell you of a time a stranger told them "You don't *look* like you need that."
Some cisgender female athletes, especially black girls, may share with you a time they were prohibited from competing because it was assumed they were transgender or assumed their testosterone levels were "too high" to compete against other women. CISgender athletes being told they cant compete because a coach or parent THINKS they may be trans.
What do these examples of racism, ableism, transphobia, and intersectional prejudice have in common? People made unfounded assumptions about a stranger, based on surface level information.
I'm not saying racism and transphobia etc. will go away if we consciously check our biases, but a lot fewer people will be affected by racist/ableist/transphobic/homophobic etc. *actions* if everyone who gave a damn checked their biases before acting on them.
People *must* stop relying on their assumptions. People *must* actively distrust their own assumptions when interacting with others (obviously unless you are at risk of being harmed).
It isn't hard to check people's bio for their pronouns, and it naturally occurs to me to check before I assign a gender or pronouns to someone based on an assumption.
You should be actively challenging your own biases and assumptions in every interaction you have, and if you aren't already then you are a performative ally to anything you claim to support.
Hope this helps somebody wondering what more they can do or what marginalized people are asking of them.
I would disagree only about the nb vs. enby thing, because I almost exclusively heard nb being used for nonbinary people for YEARS. I'm not arguing which is "correct," only that I don't blame Jameela for using nb in this circumstance, since I still know wide swaths of nonbinary people who still use "nb" in their bio, and I also know a lot of nonbinary people who actually hate using "enby" because they say it feels infantilizing. I think when it comes down to it, the context of the conversation usually clears things up.
This was beautifully said. Excellent explanation of the harm behind cisnormativity.
As a cis person, thank you for explaining! I'm not on twitter so I didn't know what was going on. I get everyone makes mistakes but god she handled this so badly
Gonna start misgendering cis people as a form of disrespect.
I'm mostly joking, but it might make them realise how frustrating it is at least
We couldn't care less lol
Great perspective as usual, Brennan! It's exhausting dealing with this shit, but having voices like yours and other transfolk out here makes a lot of us feel a lot less alone
I love Jameela Jamil but I think she spends too much time on Twitter. Maybe that's true of everyone, especially now. You spend enough time venting your thoughts into the void eventually a bad one is going to slip out. I do it all the time but thankfully I'm not a celebrity and I've never gone viral so I'm repercussion free from my really shitty takes and nasty venomous words aimed at people who probably didn't deserve them. Kind of a catch 22 for celebrities though, you need to present and visible online these days but the more active you are the greater the chance you'll put your foot in your mouth.
this seriously helped me put some things into perspective as a cis person! thanks for this ☺️ it was really interesting
"But I didn't mean to step on your toes!"
"Nonetheless, my toes hurt..."
I’m so glad I deleted my Twitter.
Love the video and honestly I can see Jamila watching your video and absorbing a lot from it. Your video does a great job in explaining to non trans folks why it’s so much more hurtful, dangerous, and painful even if that person was rude. ❤
Your videos are always super insightful and this is no exception, king
There's also different levels of misgendering, like just casually using the wrong pronoun like "oh she went to the park-- my bad, I mean he" is different than specifically bringing up someone's gender to imply something about who they are as a person like she did - "a woman gaslighting another woman". Like that feels more pointed than simply using the wrong pronoun but it's clear Jameela thinks the latter is all she did, which is probably why she's confused about the backlash she's getting.
Hey Brennen! I know you used to use ey/em as well, I'm curious as how you feel about them now! Do you not like them for yourself anymore, or did you find them difficult to explain to people like (I believe) you said before in one of your streams from a while back? No pressure for an answer or for any type of answer, just curious as someone thinking about neopronouns and maybe using them!
i think brennen may be like myself in that when talking about pronouns with cis people they lean towards the most "normal" sounding pronouns. personally i also use ey/em/eirs pronouns but when talking about queer topics w cis people i stick w he/him because is infinitely easier and they dont het hung up on it
@@jesush8smyguts That makes sense! Especially given the context that this is about trying to get cis allies to,,, actually be an ally and use the correct pronouns for people
Hey! Yeah I kind of dropped ey/em in most contexts because it was getting frustrating to explain to people and they wouldn’t use them anyway.. I think if they were more commonly used and more prevalent I would go by ey/em exclusively, but like I’m still tryna get people to stop using she/her for me you know? so it’s just a battle I don’t have the capacity to fight right now
@@brennenbeckwith I understand. When I was coming out to my parents, I offered them to use they/them for me (my pronouns are actually he/him) as they were finding it too hard to use he/him, I just wanted them to stop using she/her. The annoying thing is, since they/them aren't my pronouns, I was still technically getting misgendered, and after a while I was annoyed enough to lay down a deadline on them switching over. Luckily they're mostly there now. It's weird how some people are more okay using they/them than gendered pronouns, whereas a lot of people hate using they/them!
@@Robb3636 My friend is very binary transmasc and SEETHES when people use they/them for him because sometimes it feels like someone's trying to be "inclusive" at the expense of his actual gender. Like they see him as androgynous instead of "a guy". Super understandable.
This specific case is such a weird one because like... it's not even a pronoun fuckup. Pronouns are nearly unavoidable and highly gendered in English, so referring to someone in the third person forces you to gender them. Here, Jameela saw a stranger on twitter, assumed their gender ~somehow~, and brought it up when she *didn't have to*. I don't know why her gaslighting clapback had to be gendered. If you're not going to take the time to correct your immediate perception of someone's gender from idk a tiny photo?? Then maybe don't go out of your way to bring it up.
That reenactment of a well meaning cis person misgendering you is so accurate I cried. It's such a waste of time.
reading a paragraph on someone’s acc is impossible to do then write a paper on why they couldn’t bother sure
The problem with the original wasn't even a use of pronouns. It was an assumption of gender that she used to make a gender-related comment. The response wasn't "triggered", it was pointing out that her criticism was based on incorrect assumptions. Jameela thought she was being clever and is upset that, instead, she looked like an ass.
It's all about her feelings.
She needs to just accept the embarrassment, shut up, and learn.
If i forget to check a bio, i just don’t use gendered pronouns (or they/them if avoidable) until i finish my reply. It takes a bit more care in my wording, but it’s better than potentially misgendering someone!
Thank you for the video, as a cis ally it was very informative. One thing I am confused by is how strongly you reacted to the term "triggered". I know that conservatives ridicule the term and use it ironically, but it remains a an important word used non-ironically when discussing trauma and mental health in general. I entirely understand and agree on why the way she reacted was bad, but I don't read her use of "triggered" as dismissive or mocking, I read it as deeply sympathetic. When you say "we are not triggered, we are afraid, we are tired, oftentimes misgendering is a malicious act of dehumanizing and a precursor to physical violence so it's not just a mistake to us", I hear " we are not triggered, we are [the clinical definition of triggered]" which is having me scratch my head. Doesn't excuse what she did, and the way she reacted is obviously bad, just wanted to mention it.
This was a really good explanation on this topic. I want to be a good ally and I find myself always learning something new. I did not understand what the issue was with JJs tweets because I realize that I jumped to a cis comfortable assumption about the situation. Thank you so much for your educational (and/or emotional) labor. Now I know better
I really feel like (some) cis people just do not think about it one way or the other, they just automatically use whichever pronoun aligns with their audiovisual perception of someones gender in the moment.
I've been out for 8 years, on T for 6 years now, and a friend I've known for 8+ years recently introduced me to a new group of people using they/them for me. He knows I don't use they/them, he knows I've been a binary trans guy for pretty much the entire time I've known him. I definitely don't think he was maliciously trying to misgender me but that kind of makes it worse bc it just means that in his mind he doesn't really see me as a man by default.
Cis people will struggle and forget to use they/them pronouns for actual nonbinary people, but binary trans people end up getting they/themed why?? I guess because like, you're far enough in your transition that it doesn't make any sense to call you the opposite binary pronoun, but they also can't accept that you are the gender you identify as.
it's insane how so many cis people don't get this. it is not hard to show the bare minimum of respect by checking someones bio to make sure you are not misgendering them. me and my friend, if we want to rant about something someone has said, we will literally check their bio before having a PRIVATE conversation ranting about them. even in private conversation, about someone we disagree with or don't like. a conversation between just the two of us, a conversation that person - or anyone else - won't ever see. if we can do that, then jameela and every other ally guilty of this can get over themselves and check someones bio before bringing their gender into a very public conversation. especially on a platform they have a huge following on.
So yesterday I had to bring my mom with me to the gender therapist (I'm 27) and my mom started with 'I'm really sorry Ryn but I'm going to slip up on the pronouns because we're talking about past little child you and in my head I'm going to use the pronouns I used for you then' and instead of being on my side, my gender therapist went 'oh yeah me too, it's just so hard and I'm not used to they/them pronouns'.
Like... I'm not weird for finding that upsetting, right?
(I had to bring my mom because I'm in a super gatekeepy diagnostic trajectory in Europe. We don't have informed consent here.)
You’re not weird at all for finding that strange, it’s baffling that your therapist, of all people, would say something like that when that’s something she’s supposed to be specialized in. I’m sorry you had to go through that
Dang, I hope you’re able to switch to a different therapist who is actually supportive of you. Gendering someone correctly, regardless of if you’re talking about them before coming out and/or transitioning, is a basic thing any qualified gender therapist should do
That’s definitely weird from a gender therapist to behave that way, but your mum’s experience is pretty common. Some people when talking about the past automatically put themselves in the headspace of the past. I’m genderqueer but relate to that tbh. I know it’s probably upsetting regardless, but I think it’s good she at least offered the explanation, presumably to try to indicate to you that she wasn’t trying to be dismissive of what you now go by. She should still try to be mindful of her language, but when talking about old memories I think it’s common to slip up. The gender therapist’s comments don’t seem appropriate at all though.
🤨 I understand your mum apologising in advance if she messes up (though she should still 100% make the effort to not make that mistake). You're still valid if that bothers you ofc.
Your gender therapist on the other hand should get a different job if pronouns are too hard for them. Like if this were even applied to a situation where nobody got hurt by the mistake you'd still tell them maybe this isn't their calling.
If you're like "hey sorry if I slip up and speak English instead of French, I'm not very good at French" and your French teacher was like "oh yah don't worry about it, same", you'd be wondering why on earth you're paying them???
To clarify, yeah I'm not at all mad at my mom for this. She genuinely tries her best. I'm upset at my gender therapist.
Thank you for making this, Brennan. Very well-stated.
You really can't expect that others will automatically know what you prefer to be called nor can you expect that most will change how they think about you and how that's reflected in their words.
It is what it is. Most people dont care that much about strangers. It's just something you have to accept.
You cant control how peoole think, you cant control how they talk and you can't expect them to see your thought process and internal identity when they dont live in your head.
Ive had my name buthcered for years. I dont get upset because I've learned how to live with it and lower the expectations i place on strangers.
brennen i don't think there's anything wrong with you being frustrated with this issue! i think you are being very diplomatic about an issue that is exhausting for you. that takes a LOT of emotional labor to do, so don't ever feel like you're not allowed to be miffed about an issue that is often a result of plain ignorance 💕 (i say this bcuz i know you were worried about coming off as rude but honestly you said nothing out of pocket)
Idk why she didn't say "oops my bad" and move on
it's funny how even someone like me who is comfortable as any gender, and who therefore would abso-fucking-lutely not understand what the experience of being misgendered is like, can still listen to trans folks and just trust them about their own experience... how many times have we seen cis women and men loose their shit when if they somehow get misgendered, or if their baby gets gendered differently than what they were assigned at birth? you'd think it would be easier for them to get it
Making a big deal out of this and piling on her on Twitter is bad for the cause overall. Feels incredibly short sighted. The left would be better off if more people learned the importance of picking your battles
Thanks for making this I'm cis and wanna make sure I don't make my trans friends uncomfortable
I’ve misgendered ppl irl mostly whenI first meet them and they aren’t clear (and I don’t ask). I’ve also mis gendered folks when they recently changed their pronoun and I was unaware. I just start using the correct pronoun and don’t apologize because I feel it would be more for me and not for them. I’m sure they noticed and I rather not make a big deal out of it but I also feel maybe they think I’m a jerk. Bringing it up way later would just be embarrassing for both of us? It’s honestly what feels good in my heart but maybe I’m coming up with excuses. What I won’t do is blame it on others.
thank you for this video, you're so thougtful and articulated in your words and yeah thank you for doing this ♡♡♡ have a good day :)
Idk if this is just me, but personally the cis guilt is what makes me feel like I have to transition too, I wanted to transition before it but now I feel like I have to or I'll never be gendered correctly
Cis ppl be so dramatic lol
I feel like Jameela was using the word "triggered" with its original meaning - something that triggers anxiety, PTSD flashbacks or in this case, gender dysphoria. Idk if anyone remembers but a few years ago when conservatives started using "triggered" to mean offended, many disabled people called this out as incredibly ableist and we fought so hard to not have the original meaning erased, as it is important language we need. So I really wish people would stop only using or even understanding the meaning of "triggered" as what reactionaries turned it to.
👏👏👏👏
I wish, instead of getting defensive and dismissive, people would just LISTEN to trans people
I use they/them, if i dont know their gender and then they can correct me, so we dont stand in a situation like this one.
Why would she not check someone’s acc before replying? I always check peoples accounts even if it’s an old thread I’m not on because you can see if they’re a child, they’re not fluent in English, a troll, a throw away acc, their age in general because most the time looking at someone’s acc contextualises them and makes you not feel the need to reply?
Surely someone with her following always checks peoples acc? Cos so many people are trolls or have 0 followers? I think she needs to really start checking people out a lot of stuff in their bio sometimes.
Like I check just out of curiosity most the time when someone says smt im surprised or disagree with. Also bc often you can work out someone’s age and political opinions so it helps contextualise it.
(A lot of this is infodumping, it probably is a little condescending, my bad lol)
I think her usage of "triggered" comes from a background of mental health here. Before it got co-opted by the alt right, "triggered" meant someone having an intense negative emotional response to innocuous stimuli, mostly used in the context of neurodivergency. It still kind of does mean this, just less so. It could apply to an autistic person getting severe sensory overload from bright lights, a recovering alcoholic relapsing when they smell wine, a person with an eating disorder spiraling when being expected to step on a scale in a doctor's office, etc.
It was most prominently used with PTSD, wherein triggers are often arcane or feel disconnected from their source. I have PTSD, and fall (the whole fucking season) is a trigger for me. So is people using the :o or :0 emoticons or ending a sentence with a space and then a period (like so) . Up until recently, vampires were one (they still upset me but not to the point of a full-on flashback). All of these have genuine explanations related to the trauma I experienced, but they're all... y'know, kinda silly? Like, it would take a solid 5 minutes of backstory to explain why someone's grammar error in their text made me lock myself in my room for an hour.
The issue is just in the cultural context the term now has, and the way that it relates to the act of misgendering. The alt-right co-opted the term in a genuine desire to mock people on the left discussing mental health and using the word "triggered" to mean what it legitimately means. It spiraled so far out that now, it's half a term everyone uses to describe someone having an intense negative emotional response to innocuous stimuli, but like, mockingly. It's also half dogwhistle for the alt-right. ND people have been trying to reclaim this term for fucking AGES, and it mostly hasn't stuck. Misgendering also just isn't really innocuous to trans people, and there's a really insidious undercurrent when considering how transness is often equated to mental illness.
A lot of other people in the comments pointed out the very good context that Alex was questioning whether or not Jameela has EDS. To be honest, without that, I'd be a lot less comfortable with the way she used "triggered" and with the way she used "gaslighting". I don't think Alex was "actually" gaslighting her, but it's very common for disabled people (particularly people with invisible illnesses) to have society as a whole try to convince us that we aren't disabled. I've had the same thing happen to me. I think the usage of the term on a societal scale, to describe the process of disabled people being stripped of the foundation of how we view our bodies and minds, is a genuinely useful one.
Not to mention that it's a huge dick move to scrutinize someone's history in order to figure out if they're disabled or not, or, God forbid, the section of the Internet that is determined to """prove""" every disabled/ND person isn't """actually""" disabled/ND, and how that plays into long-running issues with the way people discuss disability/neurodivergency. (Also imo Twitter users have a history of seeing people use a term in an incorrect context, but in a way that's still useful, and going scorched earth over it. See also, emotional labor.)
Like, is it gaslighting in a relational sense? Not really! Does it play into societal patterns that could be described as gaslighting? For sure! If her usage of the term "gaslighting" was inaccurate or overblown, I'd be inclined to think she was a bit clumsier when describing trans people as "triggered".
I dunno, I just don't see it as malice. There's a lot about Jameela Jamil that comes across as pretty performative (I've never been a huge fan of how she speaks on behalf of plus-sized people when it comes to body positivity), but I really think her discussions of neurodivergency are genuine. She's trying to reclaim a term as someone who has struggled with mental illness, not using it as a dogwhistle -- it just so happens that the term "triggered" has baggage in trans-specific spaces.
So I've flipped between any/all pronouns and they/them pronouns. The reason being is that I think about non-english speakers, and I'm pretty lax about my pronouns even if they might be they/them at any given time. I am AFAB and am for the most part, comfortable with my female gender presentation. I don't know if this will change. Although, my pronouns have changed a lot too, so... idk, I just don't feel as upset anymore if someone misgenders me. However, I realize that this isn't the case for many other nonbinary and trans people alike. Like I know this nonbinary person a little bit, I try not to ask them about their gender and/or surgeries/hormones they might have or want to have or go on. Instead, I try to get to know them as a person, even if a little bit during work. They are usually a unit clerk at the front desk in Maternity and even have their pronouns under their identification tag. I kind of wanted to connect by making light conversation that I am also nonbinary, and PREFER they/them pronouns. However, I realize that not everyone can adhere to that, not even my own mother. I'm also just considering to moving my pronouns back to any/all just because I don't care much anymore about it for me. It does suck. It does hurt. Maybe it hurts a little less for me because I'm not as trans as you, Brennen? Maybe, I don't know anymore. I'm throwing in the gender towel. I get sick of trying to figure it out. Yes, I am exhausted. Maybe I'm just a lazy trans person? lol.
I understand this feeling but also twitter is almost like fb comment sections at times and most dont look at profiles before replying. So I can see her point although the tweet is misguided as it drives traffic towards someone with a smaller account and thats a power issue. I use she/they and have my pronouns in the profile not my name on twitter but I don't expect people to always check my profile if we are in a back and forth chat etc as unless they think they might want to follow me or are curious as to my politics etc. For example, if someone trolls me I tend to check their profile to see if it is a one off etc and reporting that hate.
Did she really say “cis pronoun”??? Sigh
I ageee with your analysis of this. So frustrating
If you care about not misgendering trans people read thier bio. This will avoid any misunderstaning because its litteraly just in the bio.
the amount of times ive been misgendered and I ALWAYS ENDED UP BEING THE ONE SAYING "no, it's fine" bc they catastrophize instead of just being like "sorry, my bad. ill get it right next time. OR wont happen again"
I get annoyed when people ask me basic questions that I already have in my bio since I always check the bio of whoever I'm talking to when we interact for the first time. It's just something I learned from being a minor on the internet, just something that seems RESPONSIBLE when you're talking to anyone online. Social media platforms didn't add the pronouns section to the bio for no reason. It's just so weird that especially if you're having an ongoing argument with someone that she wouldn't look at their bio at any point. This whole thing could've been avoided if she had just thought it through a little more from the start.
Eheue I'm cis and I think it's ridiculous to ask people (anyone really) that if they want their correct pronouns used that they need to add it to their name. It's true not everyone sees bios (I don't interact with people I don't know lol) but the normal thing if you misgender someone is to apologize and use the correct pronouns. None of this "you should have done this" correcting crap 😒😒
Does anyone have the original link because throughout all of this I haven't seen that. Wouldn't change that the misgendering was wrong but I wanna see the whole thing
I'd just add that when you misgender someone, it can also be good to apologize. Like, correct yourself, if the situation is appropriate give a quick and short apology, and move on, is what I would say. I'm not disagreeing with Brennen on this and I don't think the apology is always necessary, but especially in cases like this one with jameela, it might have been good to do so. Not in the awful over-exagerated way Brennen explained here, but... I guess I just don't want cis people looking at this video and similar narratives and thinking they should never apologize. Depending on the person, and how they misgendered me, or how often it happens, I might want an apology just as a sign that they recognise that misgendering someone is wrong and bad, that they didn't do it on pupose, they're not just correcting themselves to be pc and avoid consequences, they actually care about not hurting me, etc. Most of the time it's not necessary, but still...
im cis and this video made me understand trans people so much more
I like that you put your pronouns in your username for Jameela. What an ally
Why do I feel like it's always jamila in these types of situations where she puts her foot in her mouth? 😭
Yo if Alex didnt already dislike Jameela I wouldn’t blame them for hating her now
Why did I get a Matt Walsh video before this
It seems like in the tweet when Jameela says "nice try" she's thinking that the person calling her out for misgendering them is doing it for some sort of gotcha moment rather than a person wanting to have their gender respected and that stands out as a bit off.
You mentioned the annoyance of dealing with cis guilt when they misgender, but I'm confused what I'm supposed to feel. I do feel bad if I slip up. Or is it more if I spend too much energy on apologizing about it and saying I feel bad vs just correcting myself and moving on? I want to know what you mean so I know the best response I can give if I'm in that type of situation.
So, I’m a cis female, and I’ve been wanting to ask those who use pronouns different than the ones they were assigned at birth a question, and after watching this video, I feel like this is a good time to ask it.
So, this is kind of a 2 pronged question.
1) What should I do if I meet someone and I am unsure of their pronouns (e.g. in person where there isn’t a way for me to check like a Twitter bio)? Should I ask them? I think that would be better than assuming, but could it also feel invalidating as an indication of not totally passing? Would it just be better to use they/them until they tell me otherwise or I find out later on, or could that also feel invalidating to those who don’t use they/them?
2) Should I ask every new person I meet their pronouns? Instinctively, I would only think to ask androgynous people their pronouns, but even if the person appears to be very masculine or very feminine, should I still ask just to be sure? Kind of going back to the first prong, would that feel more or less invalidating?
I know I sound like what Brennen was talking about with cis guilt; I just want to be as considerate as possible. Listening to Brennen made me realize that I don’t have to feel so much pressure around it, and so if I’m in a situation where I’m not sure of/can’t find someone’s pronouns, I will just ask them, but I still want to hear what people who experience being misgendered think and if there is a better way for me to approach a situation like that.
1) Yes, ask but ask discreetly. You can do this by passing a note or whispering to them. If you can't ask discreetly then you can use they/them, if they use other pronouns they will most likely tell you later on in a safe enviornment
2) You can but again, ask discreetly.
the reason I stress to ask discreetly is because in a lot of places people are very transphobic and someone saying their pronouns could put them in serious danger
@@pebbles3609 That is such a great point. I wouldn’t have thought to do that, but you’re right, so I if I need to ask, I will definitely ask discreetly. Thank you for helping :)
@@Jessie_Bee Yeah np!
@@pebbles3609@Jessie_Bee I second being discreet, and would also say that if you're in an environment where it would actually be dangerous for a person to be outed as trans, I would consider not using they/them so as not to draw attention to the person (whether they're trans or not, it might make transphobic people think they are and respond accordingly). Honestly, as uncomfortable as it might be, maybe choose one of the binary pronouns (based on which would cause less bigotry basically) and stick with those until you're in an environment where you can actually ask them and apologize if necessary. If possible I would use the same pronouns others in the space are using for the person, even if you suspect those aren't the right ones, so as to again not draw undue attention to them. I also wouldn't correct people unless you know the person and they've told you they want you to correct people who misgender them. Idk what it's like for people in very progressive places but this is what I'd ideally like to happen with me as someone from a transphobic country! I would like the agency to out myself or not depending on my assessment of how safe the situation is, which trans people are generally much better able to do than cis people.
Also yeah your intuition is right, I would definitely not only ask the pronouns of androgynous and/or visibly trans people - the point of asking pronouns is that we do it for everyone, no matter how gender-conforming or GNC or cis or trans they appear. Only asking GNC people is essentially outing us by default!
Ultimately though this is all very context dependent, and each trans person has their own opinions and preferences. Hope this helps! 😎
Protagonist; "I am (whatever). My pronouns are (whatever).
Reply; "Oh, I'm sorry. I hope you are well soon".
Protagonist; "I AM NOT ILL".
Reply; "No dear. Of course you aren't" said with pity
What I find hilarious is when someone with their pronoun button on lapel takes a swing and a miss and misgenders me. Like, why? Don't refer to me as a 'lady' especially when I don't look like one.
40 minutes into this video and Jameela just keeps digging the hole HUH (the way she is talking about this situation is so immature and so hurtful oh my god. Sometimes it's ok to put the Twitter down and take a deep breath jfjdjd)
I mean this with all respect but I wish white people would stop policing the abbreviation nb, while it does mean non black, abbreviations can mean multiple things and you can usually pick up the context for which one is being used from the rest of the conversation, it's not hard. I personally hate being called enby because it feels infantilizing and yet as a black nb person I've had whites tell me I'm wrong for that. There's no issue with her using that here, the rest of it is a mess tho