@@NickTaylor-ci7by They could Legacy them so there are no 'official games' with then so they dont need to make any 'official sculpts' in the first place.
I love where this new edition is going except for the limited freedom of list building. I've spent months converting and painting Harad themed Black numenoreans to ally with my serpent horde and now it looks like my special project is going to be completely un-usable. I'll find a way to use the models but it's a bit disappointing.
I'm wondering if we will see profile creep with the new War of the Rohirrim range, like we saw with the Hobbit models (Bolg being F7, Aragorn being F6 comes to mind)? We know how much GW love to give new models overpowered rules like the Dragon Emperor, and it's been an obvious strategy for selling new models in Warhammer 40k for the last couple of decades. Otherwise, I'm happy about the tweaking of datasheets; please make Moria Blackshields viable again!
I'm really not looking forward to every list being forced to be a legendary legion. One of the game's greatest strengths was the alliance matrix, and seeing it go is a huge loss. Alliances allow you to flex your list building muscles in a way that legions do not allow. Deciding when it is worth losing your bonuses to make a yellow alliance was a skill, and made for really interesting brews. I remember reading a tournament report that included an Isengard list allied with a Moria Dragon, we will never get to see such things moving forwards. Also, this has huge potential to leave underdeveloped factions in the dirt. They are adding more legions, but it sounds like only things that are "represented in the films". How often will Treebeard see play if you cannot ally him with something like Rohan or Gondor so you have a troop base? About the only place Gwahir will be usable is in a potential rework of the Men of the West legion (fingers crossed). Is Khazad Dum about to lose all its elven alliances?
I am not a fan of soups. The "skill" of building yellow alliances was hardly varied, i.e. here is my Gwaihir one drop. I do agree that some of the more creative and less competitive lists will be on the chopping block, but the issue was the competitive nature of yellow alliances, with all its meta implications was bad for the game. To reiterate though there is nothing interesting about allying in very meta pieces into a list that doesn't even need its army bonus, see your example of Isengard and Moria.
@@ClaymoreLinx Well, I disagree that there is nothing interesting about yellow alliances. Many armies do not want to lose their bonuses, so yellow has heavy consequences for them before even considering what the alliance might be, and the Gwahir 1-drop is more an issue with how efficient Gwahir is than with the alliance system as a whole. It is great seeing things like Easterlings with Khandish chariots, Khazad-dum with elven warband detachments to cover their weaknesses, Prince Imrahil + Gandalf the White, which gives Gandalf a cheap but strong hero to protect that is lacking from MT proper, interesting 3-prong alliances like Hurin with WoMT, Theodred with mounted Royal Guards, and Legolas with Mirkwood archers & spearmen, the aforementioned Isengard + Moria Dragon list, the Gwahir's Birdbath list with Lothlorien & Numenor, or the absolutely insane all-hero 1000pt list of the 3 Ent heroes, Gwahir, Radagast on sleigh, and Tom Bombadil. There are countless ways to express creativity with the alliance matrix, and if you do not want to do so then you can stick with alliance-less lists, or legendary legions. Speaking of, the meta-crushing lists as of late have not been yellow "soup" lists, but rather the thematic, lore-accurate legendary legions with pushed special rules. As one example, the Easterling legion is probably a top-3 meta army, and it is very paint-by-number in terms of list building: most people take Emperor, the 2 other new Easterling heroes, some cavalry, a bunch of infantry, and 1 drum, and if points allow maybe you have a 4th hero of choice. Many legions in the game are very strong, and offer very little flexibility in hero and troop choice. Not every legion has this issue, but many do.
@@ClaymoreLinx I think that could be solved by a rebalance of allies rather than removing them though. Not everyone plays mesbg at a competitive tournament level and I really loved the freedom to just throw together fun lists like a mixed bag of calv from easterlings, haradrim and mordor in an all mounted list. I think it's a shame to lose one of the most unique and fun features of the game system, though I am biased because the alliance matrix is by far my favourite part of the system.
@@Corbolio this, thank you for putting it into words. I was about to get into this hobby, but now I'm uncertain. I wanted to have elves and humans and dwarves fighting together. I'm heartbroken
Can see MT having a least 4 legions. Something like the retaking of Osgiliath, with Boromir and faramir etc. Defending Osgiliath with faramir and his rangers friends, Osgiliath vets etc. Defence of the white city with Gandalf but also denathor causing problems and hurin, ingold etc. Then maybe a return of the king with Elessar and an alliance with rohan. Looking forward to see what GW do.
Sounds like Jay has some good ideas. The new edition really only needs some minor adjustments to really spice up the game and this sounds like it’s going the right direction. Get hyped!
I hope they announce what models are being cut early so I can scoop up a couple of boxes of Morgul knights. Looking bleak for my favorite calvary with no screen time
Nah, they will likely stay in a Minas Morgul LL, but might not be able to take more Mordor based stuff, Great Beast, Mordor Uruks, etc. I will also buy a box or two if I am wrong though, haha.
The legacy part have me the most conserned. GW, and all other companies, do their best to increase profit. If You do not acquire more customers, You start to "milk" Your regular ones. My greatest fear is that all core units will be replaced with new ones, and the old ones will be obsolete. Warriors of Rohan, Riders of Rohan, warriors of minas tirith, orcs etc. To play in tournaments we would have to replace our old ones. That will bring back profit to GW. I'm not sure how much more money I will spend on MESBG. I have all the models I need, allthough not all painted, to play all the old supplements. I'm completly fine with staying with the rules and profiles as they are pr today.
Always enjoy any middle earth content, reports, news chats, even army talks! Don't take my black numenoreans from me! Finally got my customized proxy sculpts exactly how I wanted them!
Welp I hope Murin and Drar don't get binned cause I really wanted to use them in a fellowship alliance lol I'll just have to try and play it a bunch before the new rules come out haha
A lot people are scared of the changes and really worried. One thing that makes me have some hope is that they are coming out with this new edition to coincide with War of the Rohirrim, which is great. They completely and utterly ignored and skipped anything to do with Rings of Power. That, to me, says that someone, somewhere, is actually looking at what they're attaching their name to and thinking before leaping. They're not just going for easy cash grabs and attaching their name to projects that they think are worth it. At least that's how I read it.
Except New Line who they have a licence with didnt make ROP and if GW made a feal with Amazon they sure as hell would be saying byebye to their lisence with New Line. If they could have, and thought it would make money, they 100% wouldnt have cared about the quality
Honestly all the old models going into the legacy category is kind of sad for new players like me, it's so frustrating to see models in the book that look interesting to add to a future army and realise they're out of production :( especially regarding elite infantry like black numenoreans, Corsair Reavers (?), watchers of Karna, Abrakhan merchant guard, that would really elevate a list compared to the standard warriors but are now impossible to get unless you get them on eBay for a very high price... Pretty sad to see them go
With the number of books, I imagine it's like this. GW has some licensing deals with New Line Cinema, and with the Tolkien Estate to be able to feature their IP in the game. However, with Rings of Power vs Peter Jackson's series vs the books, IP holders may now be saying you can use our IP only if it's not mixed in with stuff from other IPs. So all the stuff that was featured in PJ's movies can be in one book, but not in the same book as Tom Bombadil or Glorfindel, characters from the books but not featured in the movies.
Great video 👌 thanks for this summary 🙏 I just have 1 question: if one miniature is invalid because it's legacy, does it mean that there is a new miniature to replace it? Or are they deleting the miniature/profile from the game?
First! New changes look interesting! As a newish player, I'm definitely not complaining about a little more streamlining with cover saves, etc. Still sounds very much the same game, and I'm hopeful
Great overview of the news, Jacob! I think a lot of people are overestimating the amount of models that will go into legacy. To me it seems that these models will probably be mostly named heroes that were invented by GW. For instance, Murin and Drar, The Golden King, etc. but I think many of them will stay in the Armies of Middle Earth book. Regarding the new army list system, I think it will be great, and that it will be based on the old Legions of Middle Earth supplement. For instance, say we get the following army lists: The Grey Company, The Garrison of Minas Tirith, and the Fiefdoms of Gondor. They will all have their own bonuses and restrictions on wargear and models you can take. But you will be able to play them allied together because they all fight at The Pelennor. I think the amount of alliances and builds one could do will be massive with such a system! Looking forward to the next edition!
Very new to this game (haven't even received my first order of models in the mail yet), and I'm curious about two things that I'm not sure I understand due to being so new. 1. It sounds to me like the legendary legions thing is going to prevent people from creating their own narratives withn middle-earth, or "what-if" scenarios. I feel that the ability to do this is key to wargaming, whether historical or fantasy and losing this would be a real blow. Experimenting with the lore and playing it out on the table was something I was excited to get into with this game, now it feels like I will be limited to the cannon scenes from the films and maybe the books (films seem to be getting the spotlight of course). 2. I'm an old school fantasy gamer and love the sculpts by the Perry brothers, Brian Nelson etc that were done for this game. I love the toned down, almost historical look that this game has which suites the literature. It sounds like a lot of these old figures may become irrelevant both because the ones for profiles still in play might be getting new models and because many profiles are just going to be tossed out. What do you think this means for someone like me who was excited to collect and play the 2001-2012 models?
Thanks for the comment! Welcome to the game! 1. I am really glad about this change because so ofter peoples "What-if" scenarios end up being what if the most powerful unit form this army and the most powerful army from this other army were together. Keep in mind that you can still do whatever you like within a play group and in casual games but to keep to game balanced and thematic I think this is a great change. They have said that these will be based on the story so expect book and films. 2. I am a huge fan of the original sculpts for these miniature. I go to great lengths to collect armies off entirely metal miniatures. There will be a limited amount of miniatures that will be moved into legacies (Not thrown in the bin) these will be models that have not been in production and not widely used for several years. These will be units that newer players have likely never heard of such as Morgul stalkers, Feral Uruk Hai, or Corsair reavers and will have no significant impact on the game. There have been several different models for the same profiles (There are over a dozen Aragorn sculpts!) and you are able to choose whichever models you like the most. For example there are new Guard of Galahdrim court models however I prefer the old ones so they are the ones I use. This extends to several other armies that I have. For example my most recent project is the Uruk Hai scouts and rather than using the plastic kit I have manage to collect the original metal miniatures from 2001 to be my army. This is very common and the existance of newer models will have no impact to your ability to collect and play older models. The original perry sculpts are some of my favorite of all time and I will continue to collect and play with them!
@@ConquestCreations Got it, thank you. I am also not a fan of power gaming in any of the games I play (though I know it has its place for those who do like it), and "what if the most powerful armies joined" etc is boring to me for sure. But is the game losing the ability to combine forces that would be interesting regardless of power? I guess I'm just not understanding to what degree factions or characters will be able to mix and it sounds like they won't be able to at all if it didn't happen in the canon. And if it is canon options only then there is no imagination nor creativity allowed at all, no?
The Intelligence stat may also resolve around terrain - after all, you need some intelligence how to get across a cavern, ditch, how to swim well or jump a wall without tripping over or even climb a ladder! There’s tons of complicated rules about this. Simplify it like they’ve done with weapons. Perhaps it’s a stat to automatically pass said test/check. It seems to be about situational awareness from the teaser.
Thank you so much on your comments This part where you think its possible that the army lists as they are now, are going to still be an option helps me bear all this upcoming change. I just want to be able to make fully unamed lists, with for examlle captains and troops only and i thought that i wouldn't be able to anymore as i was sure that we would be obliged to include named heroes everytime Do you think osgiliath veterans will go to the legacies?
Hi, new player here, been playing since February/March of this year and I'm really excited for the future of the game. I agree with you that soup lists can be unfun to play against. I think black numenoreans are probably legacy, may gulavhar? Overall I think the simplifying of list creation is great for new players and for us to more easily grow our community. I think more focus on the thematic play will let us focus on what really makes the game fun to me, TACTICS.
You have some very good points there. I totally agree with you about scoring each turn. This is one of the worst parts to score just in the end so you ignore the mission like 90% of the game...
I just want to see LOTR back in GW stores again, I'm not expecting the variety that they had in stores back in 2004, but a bit more variety than just the battle hosts boxes.
Really enjoyed the video! This is the only positive, buoyant video about the changes I’ve seen, which is much more in line with how I feel about the article 👍🏻 A lot of doomsayers out there… Legacy is sure to be some models that don’t sell well and/or are older, but I strongly suspect that everything Dunland (and some Easterling stuff) will go to make way for brand new armies from War of the Rohirrim.
The Rise of Angmar release feels exactly like what happened to 40K players last edition, where World Eaters finally got their own codex and a brand new line of models, and then 10th edition was almost immediately announced. GW’s gonna do what GW’s gonna do I guess lol
Except it's NOT "exaclty like what happened" because in this case GW is pulling a rare community-minded move and letting us know beforehand what is happening. If you're upset about a book coming out and having it partially invalidated WHEN YOU KNOW BEFOREHAND, then I think you're just looking for reasons to be mad at GW (and let's be honest, we don't need to fabricate reasons). We know it's happening; don't like it, don't buy it. Simple.
Honestly another money grab. Rulebook + 3 different army books. While also making the additional supplements obsolete, so they can go through them all again. When this would have been a great opportunity to consolidate them into a single book. The legacy idea also scares me, similar to what they did to space marines making whole armies obsolete to sell more product. The minor game changes sound good, but didn't need a whole new addition.
Really hoping that Khand will stay in the Armies of Middle Earth book and have a legion with the Easterlings. I just finished converting a load of models to make a Khand list on the cheap (saved about £300 in comparison to buying GW!!!) and would like to be able to play them officially!
I will be buying the Angmar book, I have every other LOTR book and want to complete my collection. Also have nearly all the original metal figures, but stopped collecting when finecast came out. Hardly ever play now but I really enjoy watching Jacob and his videos. I played a little with the Hobbit rules, then moved on to the new version but did not use many of the new rules and never played a LL. Will have to see if these rules can draw me back. I will be very interested to see the new army books and who gets left out, Tom B ?
I said this on the MGG video for this, but it feels like this edition wasn't planned to come out until middle of next year (short turn around from the supplement and not having all the books ready for launch) but the license holder probably wanted the new edition to launch with the War in Rohan movie. I would also say that with how slow the balance cycle is with MESBG the legacies shouldn't affect too much unlike 40k. In 40k you see points and rules updates so often that the abandonware legacy stuff in that isn't balanced to the rest. But with how MESBG updates have worked I wouldn't be surprised is the legacy stuff stays largely in line with the rules seeing focus.
I think the new edition launch was always planned to coincide with the new movie - if there's no movie, there's no new edition, no launch box, no new models, etc. But the Angmar supplement was probably supposed to come out at least 6 months ago if not longer. The delays in Old World (which is made by the same studio) undoubtedly affected the schedule for MESBG.
How does the announcement of the new Arnor and Angmar models work with the new Army and rule book? Surely they didn’t announce new models that will go straight to legacy and not be playable at their own events?
Those models will 100% not be in legacies. They have already announced that the rules for them will come out for free. The reason they are making legacies is to make space for new models like the Angmar ones
More narrative play should not come at the loss of freedom in list building. My loved faction is easterlings, my favorites style of gameplay is cavalry, so i play easterlings heavy cavalry list, and to do that i must allies with mordor, if i can no more to it i'll just leave the game. I left 40k and don't want to deal with GW ruinning list when they want again
As one of the handful of people who are into this game for the game parts and not the setting I'm a little concerned the all LL list building might be too restrictive and annoying for me
I get lots of these changes. But the invalidating of the validity of models your customers bought and have painted leads to them needing to be replaced. Then matching a paint job to something you finished years ago to make a legal list. That's the real enthusiasm killer...
It is not that they probably can't, they simply do not have the rights. Also, power creep would be crazy Glaurung is bigger and stronger than Smaug, they'd have to have defense 12 fight 12 with mind control powers, he'd be 1000 points minimum, kek.
I don't mind the restriction of making everything, essentially, a legendary legion. Trying out really strange army builds is fun, but MEBSG has a very specific setting, so the playable armies should make sense within that setting. Historical wargames don't tend to combine armies that never fought together, so I don't see why MEBSG should. Sure, it's a fictional universe, but I think most players treat it as history.
True, although many war gamers also create "what if" scenarios that are rooted in history. I'm new here but it seems like this approach can be done with the current MESBG rules, but that this legendary legions change will make that approach impossible? Am I understanding correctly? Are we losing the ability to create our own narratives?
I m confused about the 3 Rulebooks, will they seperate fractions into 2 books? Dunno but I think this would be super annoying. For example easterlings; will the rules for the basic warriors be in the LotR Rulebook but everything else in the „armies“ Book? I pray that they publish the rules for ONE fraction in ONE Book, if Not my inner monk would be so mad
I will be SOOOOOOOO upset if they axe Black Numenorians. I just started a few weeks ago and Black Numenorians are somthing I've loved in the lore and it was a deal maker for me to start collecting.
My guess for their primary goal for this edition is to grow with the release of new media again. MESBG was the best selling GW game when the Lotr movies were being released, since Return of the King the game has been in slow decline because the interest just isn't there. The Hobbit movies bumped it a bit but not much and again the game went into decline in popularity despite how nice the models are and how clean the rules are. So they want to build the game up and bring in new players, with the revamp of the PJ Tolkien cinematic universe. So we're getting the War of the Rohirrim and The Hunt for Gollum and if they are good movies, they might re-ignite interest in the game. What they don't want then, is a bunch of new people coming to the game against veterans of years gone by, who know the ins and outs of complex rules like special strikes, because gating the game behind higher tier players, who the majority of those who still play the game will be, will just discourage new players. All PvP style games that are old have this issue, the vets are not willing to give new players the breathing room because they are desperate for games themselves, and ultimately do more harm to the game than good. The other thing they want to avoid is a bunch of armies these movie going audiences have never heard of, all over the table putting them off, or not attracting their interest. So the purge of unrecognisable armies and the levelling of the playing field with rules trims are needed if they want the game to be more newcomer friendly.
I get the outrage from the competitive folks. This is a huge deal to you and it’s a bummer that so much is changing because of the effort you’ve put into learning and honing your experience….But as a casual person…..more invested in the creative (converting etc) side of the hobby… I don’t find spending hours “optimizing a list” fun. I’m terrible at the game, I know it. I just want to see some cool models, check out cool terrain and roll some dice. The new army choice style sounds like it will help me and other casual folks simplify the process a bit. Also seeing simply can / can’t ally on a miniatures profile etc may actually help some people consider different options that they don’t see before because they didn't spend much time familiarizing themselves with the old matrix. I know “git gud” is a fair argument when it comes to playing / knowing all the ins and outs of the game…. But a lot of folks just won’t. That’s not their scene….. I feel like the writers know that and playing into it. Certain folks are going to find the depth of play intimidating. In the devs minds, it will not be a little more accessible. The same goes for “special strikes,” unfortunately I’m one of those “I forgot / never use them” type of people. So for me… nothing is lost there. I would get stuck reading about them every time 🤦🏼♂️ My concern is just how much “book stuff” will take a back-seat to movie stuff. I love so much of the content that didn’t make it into the movies and hope it is t treated too differently. But it’s always hard to be given something and then see it taken away. I hope you fellas have enough left to still enjoy the activity. Thanks for making the content that you do
The existing BH boxes are unlikely to change. I don't think any of those models will be moving to legends. As for new boxes, if they want to follow the same formula of 1 mounted hero, and 2 warrior boxes, all in plastic, then they will need to release more plastic kits. Currently not many other factions (maybe none at all?) meet this criteria.
Feral Uruk hai will definitely be legacied. Along with most other old metal models that came in 3s. Like serpent guard, Rohan royal guard (maybe not those actually) osgiliath veterans, Mordor Uruk hai etc.
Getting rid of most of the 3 pack metals is a stupid idea. There are still whole armies that need those in some way or shape, Rangers, Khzad, Fiefdoms, Minas Tirith, Rohan, Elves, Numenor etc
I think people overthink think this. If an army is in the films every profile will go in that book. If its in the books it'll go in the armies book. So Minas Tirith will all be in LotR book. Fiefdoms will be in Armies book. Although I feel like they may condense those into a 'Gondor' faction.
Worried about the legendary legions only thing. Also four army books is fucked, just gonna pdf them I think. New models and some renewed focus on mesbg is the only thing I am excited for
It's only 3 army books, Armies of Middle Earth, Armies of Lord of the Rings, and Army of the Hobbit. New models and renewed focus is 99% of what is coming. A few new books just comes with that
Yea but if you live in NZ, 3 books is like $400 lmao. Dont get me wrong, I really hope to be happy with how it all lands. Also while I have you - its Aragorn with an R :p hes not a herb
Best review I have seen so far very posative I like your ideas tbh I'm happy games going to be more thematic it's just not the same when you can't relate to them i very often quote daine when playing iron hills you can't do that with far harad
Thanks for the comment, Regular elves fight value is what makes them unique, it's absolutely not unbalanced at all. Of the 3 elven factions none of them are considered unusually powerful at all.
A friend and mine might get into this, if I buy the Mordor Army box the one with the witch king that GW sells, will I be ok in regards to legacy stuff? It just looks like a good value box and I really like the Witch King of Angmar as a big villain character. My friend has pointed out he likes Rivendel and The Rangers as his potential factions, will those survive the edition changes or go to legacy?
You will be completely fine with all of those choices. People have massively over exaggerated the concern about legacies. Firstly legacy models will still be 100% playable, secondly they will mainly be models that have been out of production for a long period of time.
@ConquestCreations ok, I just was worried we might get invested and then be in trouble. Neither of us does tournament style stuff. But as long as things are available and being produced, we should be good? I think those factions are still in production. Thanks. :)
@@onemisterfranko If you aren't planning on doing tournaments then there is absolutely nothing to worry about and you will always be able to play with legacies. Those factions are all still in production
@ConquestCreations ok cool, thanks. Always nice to confirm. I'm amazed the battle host box is fairly affordable. I think we're trying to focous more on a skirmish size over say, massed battle.
@@ConquestCreationsit’ll be interesting to see how they handle Morgul Knights. No dismounts available for them for a long time (mind you they did look awful) AND MK not in the movies. So, legacy the knights (it would be criminal to zap such a superb model though) OR do new plastic dismounts. If I had to bet money I’d say legacy the knights 😢 On the plus side though, my proxy Kardush is a terrible model (best STL I could find in days of searching), I might not need to worry about him any more!
I don't think elves go to fight 6. Would kind of break the purpose of the change. There will be only a couple of new fight 5 troops and elves still have elven weapons. That F5 troops will be only really elite warriors like the Black guard (i guess). Most armys will still cap at F4 warroirs. Also Azog and Bolg will stay at fight 7. With a bunch of Heros changing from 6 to 7 they will not be that unique/ crasy strong any more.
as much as i really dislike their being three books instead of two, we should be seeing the last 6 years of supplement book profiles rolled in, which i dont mind
Didn't think they'd go up to F12 and I'm actually glad they didn't. Capping at F10 helps those striking from F5 or 6 to tie those at striking from 7 or 8
I think you may have missed the non-committal soft confirmation of a release date in that last sentence, where they say the February FAQ will be for the new edition.
You are right I definitely didn't pick up on that. My guess has been that the current edition will be out pre Christmas but reading that again is interesting. One option is that I'm right about the pre Christmas release and then Feb will be the first FAQ of the new books? That would be 3 months after launch
@@ConquestCreations That tracks with the release of the new movie too. With it coming out on the 13th of December I'd bet money they're shooting to release an accompanying starter set with the new edition on the same day
They are probably doing this to make everything easier for new players. No special strikes, no alliances and combining of different lists, in the way, and so on. All to jump on the hype train of the Ride of the Rohirrim that’s coming out. Which I understand, but I don’t like how they cater to much towards the new players and not towards the current loyal players that kept the hobby going for 20+ years. Building funny thematic lists with yellow alliances was fun. But everything is turning into one big pool of LL’s now. Although it may help with people one dropping the Witch King or Sulladan into random lists. But that can be fixed in other ways. I get that some special strikes were being abused like quartering yourself with stabbing to get a win if you are holding certain objectives or maybe even the whole spear support thing. Where you could lower the fight value the front rank because it wouldn’t matter anyway due to a spear support. But here are other ways to fix that too. But then again it wouldn’t surprise me if a few years when all the new players are in they’ll say ‘look we introduced a cool new method where you can have different strikes depending on your weapon’. And let’s be honest here the new book is just to sell you yet another book.
Thanks for the comment! I disagree that this is just catering for new players. As a very experienced player I think that changing the alliance system and removing special strikes is a good move. They are also adding in intelligence, a whole new stat that will make the game more complex rather than just simplified for new players. There was the option to build thematic lists with yellow alliances but 99% of the time I saw a yellow alliance it was driven by power rather than theme. The only reason the Games Workshop makes anything is to sell it. They are a business after all. With the Rise of Angmar book they did state that it would be invalidated soon after release so gave a big warning not to buy it. That being said I do know people who are still planning on buying it so that they have a full collection of books.
@ConquestCreations I don't see any positive aspect of removing special strikes. It ads tactical/strategic aspects to the game. If people don't like to use it or don't understand it, they are free to not use it. It makes the Serpent horde poison re-roll way stronger if other models can't stab/feint. The balrog will be nerfed as well it gained a benefit with it is very useful if you fight like 4 models and you want that heroic combat to go off. Easterlings are now stuck at s3 with their axes and nothing to help. Dunland, Khazad-dûm, Hobbits, Moria, and Rohan warriors also feel it. Although Prowlers could do without it. In the way simplified and no more special strikes. All seems to point to make it easier for new players. The intelligence stuff remains to be seen. But I doubt it's going to be complicated. Thematic yellow alliance was fun. Yeah, you can use them for power. But so can LL's. The Yellow alliance won't be that much better. Plus, the less powerful alliance is now removed. The players are mow forced on more monotone stuff. Which will probably lead to even more Dragon Emperor en Assault on Lothlorien. Yeah, of course they want to make money. Buy it's the way they do it. Profit margin of about 43%. The head office in the UK is absolutely disconnected from the hobby and is only about money now. Buddy of mine used to work at GW and left because of increasing greed and weird stuff from head office.
@@ArchangelTyrael Interesting I am a big fan of their removal. I will preface that by saying that I do hope that they become special rules so that some models can still access them. For example I hope that Grim hammers retain the ability to bash. They have said that every profile is being adjusted so its impossible to talk about buffs and nerfs when all the profiles will be different anyway. When it comes to the Balrog I think monsters and brutal power attacks in general are being adjusted as well so we have no clue about anything balance related. All of those profiles being stuck at Strength 3 is part of the purpose of removing special strikes. Other special strikes such as feint provided 0 tactical strategic aspect to the game as a lot of the time the choice was automatic. As a veteran hobbyist the simplification of in the ways and removal of special strikes isn't just for new players. Both provided very little to the game as I am glad to see them go. You are obviously welcome to disagree because its a matter of perspective but it doesn't only serve new players. I completely disagree that players are forced to play monotone stuff. This is all to encourage people to play thematic moments from the films and books and give extra special rules to reward that to make the armies feel even more like they do in the story. I am glad that I wont be playing against filthy lists like Gwahir added into everything or Radagst and Galadriel added in everywhere and I am happy to loose people doing obscure theme lists in exchange for that. In regards to Dragon Emperor and Assult on Lothlorien we again can't comment on anything balance related because everything is being rewritten. I am confused about people having issues with Game Workshop being profitable. That is the objective of a business. If we look at their products and recent released they are putting out incredible kits that show a great appreciation of the hobby, I am not sure where the idea that they are disconnected comes from when they consistently put out the best hobby miniature kits in the world. I don't feel any need to protect Games Workshop but I am completely confused about why people think they are so evil when they create the hobby that we all love. There are heaps of other Miniatures companies, hobbies, or activities that we could be doing that aren't Games Workshop related.
@ConquestCreations The problem with removing the alliances is that you are limited by what they think of. Instead of being limited by your own imagination. I could play anything I would read in the books. Such as a real last alliance: Rivendell, Numenor, Lothlorien, Khazad-dûm and Mirkwood. Was not necessarily really powerful but fun. Imrahil and knights with Rohan, attack on Angmar by Rivendel Grey Havens and Gondor. Maybe some of these will be LL's and some won't. The problem is that they'll limit you. Yeah, you could abuse it and drop Radagast, Witch-king or Sulladan everywhere, but there are other ways to fix it. Profit isn't the issue it's the ludicrous margins (almost 45%) while creators are being underpaid. Even companies like Google have a lower profit margin. The way it's being run by head office isn't great. As someone with more inside knowledge and friends and than regular hobbist, I just don't like where it has headed. Which seems to be supported by certain important people leaving due to reasons like this. The stores used to be a nice place. Now staff is cut and playing in the stores is sverely limited. You used to be able to paint in the store and use some of their paints. To test if you liked a certain piant and then buy it. Now it's basically buy your stuff and get out. Heck they are making rules about banning super glue in their stores.
I reckon the whole Far Harad faction might get the Legacies chop. Not popular, fully made of materials they are phasing out, fully GW creation, and arguably dicey miniature design.
It would be a real shame to see Far Harad or Khand moved to legends. They are both popular for their largely unique impact mechanics on camels and chariots, and it would be a real feel-bad for all the people who have collected these all-metal armies to see them become expensive paperweights.
How to get started with MESB now without taking the chance of wasting any money on models that wont fit together into new legions? Or do I just wait till the new version comes out?
Great questions! I would not buy any rulebooks at this stage. Build a thematic army that is based on your favorite moment from the book or movies and you will 100% be totally fine
@@ConquestCreations For sure. If I was just starting out though I’d be avoiding metals at least until I was certain what was still going to be around. Mouth of Sauron (awful though it is) will likely still be around (hopefully with a new sculpt!), named wraiths, hmmm. Not so sure about that one. I really hope they don’t get axed but they don’t fit the criteria to remain.
I feel that the new rules being written by a tournament winner is really bad news for casual narrative players, who are actually the majority of players.
poor timing indeed! will grimbold get his horse in the new edition 😂. I think tom and Goldberg will go by the wayside. maybe things like the Isengard troll and Sharman might become legacy. I think that legacy models will be more those models that are scenario than matchplay, things that promote a negative game experience.
Hmm maybe the stalkers, the Black Numenorians, Mordor Uruk hai, the Feral Uruks, the Osgiliath veterans, some olf dwarf kits, Gulavhar, the shade?, the outriders/ sons of Eorl, will move into legends... I hate u GW for doing that in every game.
Jacob: There are no Black Numenoreans shown in the movies. The Mouth of Sauron: Am I a joke to you? (well the way he's been depicted in the movie is kind of a joke) I think they'll be prioritizing whether a model/concept is cool or popular (like the Black Nums) rather than whether they're shown in the movies or not when it comes binning stuff as Legacy. I think the Legionization of everything can backfire if they haven't been designed very carefully with a ton of options and flexibility - a lot of potential to create an outrage here. The Intelligence stat can be designed to interact with magical powers to great effect indeed... It should be easier to Transfix a 'tarded Cave Troll than a galaxy-brain like Elrond (who is currently ridiculously easy to Transfix/Paralyze which is just dumb)
Its pretty bizarre that no one on the comments is mentioning that the current edition is going away, it will still be just as much of an option as now. The fact the they said the narrative supplements will still be usable is very exciting, plus the free rules download for Arnor means that this short shelf life of the Angmar book is being completely exaggerated by current players.
I am sure everyone will be very balanced and sensible in their reactions here haha. As long as the core mechanics stay as close to the current edition as possible (as they've said they will be), then I'm not too worried. I'm a casual/narrative fan, so the army building changes dont particularly effect me. I'm much happier with their focus being on thematic army construction instead of the 40k mess where competitive rules
@@ClaymoreLinx unfortunately it's always the way. Balancing a game is very very difficult and competitive people are always going to try and break it for the sake of winning. I hope the team just don't f it all up for some quick model sales
The same thing about every new edition of 40K when it comes out. How they’ve streamlined the rules blah blah. What I don’t get is how they say the new MESBG rules are being completely streamlined etc but keeping the same mechanics’s! Then why the heck change it? Also, here’s a new supplement which by the way won’t be valid in about three months but we will still make loads of excuses about it and then keep our money!! 😂😂
I'm looking forward to seeing what changes are coming. I do wonder if we'll see Goblin town with Bows or a Corsair Ballista? While your timing yesterday was put off by GW your video was still super relevent
For me I wiah scenarios were pointed , counting all points , so if its a Fiefdom v corsairs but I only have MT & Denathors Halls list I can have a hero similar value &points so I can play the scenario , even if I dont have the army yet
A controversial idea , for tiered heroes Id be keen to see “Hero of Dominion” - This hero is a King or Dark Lord & is expected to lead armies , he can have a company of upto 24 warriors {Aragorn King, Theoden , Kings or Stewards of Men, Witch King of Angmar , Lord Elrond , Gil Galad etc..} and Dependent and independent Heros (im not sure how these two would work practically but I feel that some heroes I have dont fit “Minor hero” or dependent”
Changes to justify a new edition. In the way wasn’t bothering anyone. Special strikes were fine. If you didn’t like or understand them you could just skip them. Taking them out removes player choice. Parry and stab could have been reworked to be more nuanced, but they didn’t need to nuke them all. This is why I hate the competitive community in GW’s games. THey’re constantly whining about wanting things streamlined and simplifying and so GW keeps pulling fun and interesting stuff out of the game so it can be more ‘streamlined’ and ‘simplified’. If you want streamlined and simplified go play freaking checkers. It’s all of that and it’s balanced competitively. You don’t even have to paint your models! Oh, and then while we’re ‘streamlining’ and ‘simplifying’ let’s just add a whole new completely unnecessary stat that nobody asked for! So we can strip it out next edition under the guise of ‘streamlining’?
@@ConquestCreations monsters are just really cool and the reason I play evil, I'd love to see some of them more viable with more variety like the dweller in the dark (totally no Moria bias here)
I didn’t want to be doom and gloom but nothing about this seems good. I’ve only been playing mesbg for a few years now but it’s stood out to me as the most enjoyable and balanced game GW has ever had. I was actually extremely thankful it wasn’t like their other properties which are typically a mess with sole purpose to sell plastic and then die, another edition coming before the current one is even balanced out. All the books collected for mesbg now being not just outdated but having no place killed any enthusiasm I had at the prospects of a new edition; I was excited for the Angmar book. I think I’ll just get that and stick with the old stuff unless somehow this new edition really is amazing.
As someone who has been playing for 9 years what about it doesn't seem good? So far every change that they have announced seems really good. At a minimum Spreading out the fight values, more thematic rules, and reducing special strikes are all great. The books initially seem like a big loss but there are some positives. The competitive play section of the supplements are gone but the narrative is still there and all the competitive play is rolling into the new armies books so you won't need to repurchase a Gondor at War 2.0 which will end up reducing the cost for new players to get in.
@@ConquestCreationsI have seen most people positive on the rules changes, it is mainly the change to faction division and moving models to legends that people worry about, and I'd say with justification. Forcing everyone to always build in a legendary legion structure is a huge loss in freedom and creativity. And going on the precedent of the same system in 40k, legend profiles are likely to be all but forgotten (an average store running events will likely disallow them, since that is the default expectation GW is setting for players, and even if allowed, there is no way GW will sell legend models, making them completely inaccessible to players).
took me a literal decade to find my mahuds on mexico, and now they are probably getting removed? fuck GW, the game is fine as it is, maybe just light rebalancing and some new generic missions
"Black Numenorians are not in the Film"
Mouth of Sauron: "i am a joke to you?"
He’s in a 5 minute scene in the extended cut that adds nothing to the actual story.
@@AngryAcolyte Who would've thought one so small could endure so much pain?
And he diiid GanDaLf he diiid. 💀
~ Favorite line in the Movie
Love the videos of just you chatting! Enjoy your battle reports too but it’s nice to just hear you chat about MESBG too. Keep em coming!
Black Nums are foot version of Morgul Knights that have plastic kit. I wonder if they would do that and discard them.
New foot sculpts?
@@NickTaylor-ci7by They could Legacy them so there are no 'official games' with then so they dont need to make any 'official sculpts' in the first place.
I love where this new edition is going except for the limited freedom of list building. I've spent months converting and painting Harad themed Black numenoreans to ally with my serpent horde and now it looks like my special project is going to be completely un-usable. I'll find a way to use the models but it's a bit disappointing.
Great job w/ the prediction video and the immediate follow-up. Really love the news, theory, and strategy videos.
I'm wondering if we will see profile creep with the new War of the Rohirrim range, like we saw with the Hobbit models (Bolg being F7, Aragorn being F6 comes to mind)? We know how much GW love to give new models overpowered rules like the Dragon Emperor, and it's been an obvious strategy for selling new models in Warhammer 40k for the last couple of decades.
Otherwise, I'm happy about the tweaking of datasheets; please make Moria Blackshields viable again!
I'm really not looking forward to every list being forced to be a legendary legion. One of the game's greatest strengths was the alliance matrix, and seeing it go is a huge loss.
Alliances allow you to flex your list building muscles in a way that legions do not allow. Deciding when it is worth losing your bonuses to make a yellow alliance was a skill, and made for really interesting brews. I remember reading a tournament report that included an Isengard list allied with a Moria Dragon, we will never get to see such things moving forwards.
Also, this has huge potential to leave underdeveloped factions in the dirt. They are adding more legions, but it sounds like only things that are "represented in the films". How often will Treebeard see play if you cannot ally him with something like Rohan or Gondor so you have a troop base? About the only place Gwahir will be usable is in a potential rework of the Men of the West legion (fingers crossed). Is Khazad Dum about to lose all its elven alliances?
I am not a fan of soups. The "skill" of building yellow alliances was hardly varied, i.e. here is my Gwaihir one drop. I do agree that some of the more creative and less competitive lists will be on the chopping block, but the issue was the competitive nature of yellow alliances, with all its meta implications was bad for the game. To reiterate though there is nothing interesting about allying in very meta pieces into a list that doesn't even need its army bonus, see your example of Isengard and Moria.
@@ClaymoreLinx Well, I disagree that there is nothing interesting about yellow alliances. Many armies do not want to lose their bonuses, so yellow has heavy consequences for them before even considering what the alliance might be, and the Gwahir 1-drop is more an issue with how efficient Gwahir is than with the alliance system as a whole.
It is great seeing things like Easterlings with Khandish chariots, Khazad-dum with elven warband detachments to cover their weaknesses, Prince Imrahil + Gandalf the White, which gives Gandalf a cheap but strong hero to protect that is lacking from MT proper, interesting 3-prong alliances like Hurin with WoMT, Theodred with mounted Royal Guards, and Legolas with Mirkwood archers & spearmen, the aforementioned Isengard + Moria Dragon list, the Gwahir's Birdbath list with Lothlorien & Numenor, or the absolutely insane all-hero 1000pt list of the 3 Ent heroes, Gwahir, Radagast on sleigh, and Tom Bombadil. There are countless ways to express creativity with the alliance matrix, and if you do not want to do so then you can stick with alliance-less lists, or legendary legions.
Speaking of, the meta-crushing lists as of late have not been yellow "soup" lists, but rather the thematic, lore-accurate legendary legions with pushed special rules. As one example, the Easterling legion is probably a top-3 meta army, and it is very paint-by-number in terms of list building: most people take Emperor, the 2 other new Easterling heroes, some cavalry, a bunch of infantry, and 1 drum, and if points allow maybe you have a 4th hero of choice. Many legions in the game are very strong, and offer very little flexibility in hero and troop choice. Not every legion has this issue, but many do.
@@ClaymoreLinx I think that could be solved by a rebalance of allies rather than removing them though. Not everyone plays mesbg at a competitive tournament level and I really loved the freedom to just throw together fun lists like a mixed bag of calv from easterlings, haradrim and mordor in an all mounted list. I think it's a shame to lose one of the most unique and fun features of the game system, though I am biased because the alliance matrix is by far my favourite part of the system.
@@Corbolio this, thank you for putting it into words. I was about to get into this hobby, but now I'm uncertain. I wanted to have elves and humans and dwarves fighting together. I'm heartbroken
Can see MT having a least 4 legions. Something like the retaking of Osgiliath, with Boromir and faramir etc. Defending Osgiliath with faramir and his rangers friends, Osgiliath vets etc. Defence of the white city with Gandalf but also denathor causing problems and hurin, ingold etc. Then maybe a return of the king with Elessar and an alliance with rohan. Looking forward to see what GW do.
Sounds like Jay has some good ideas. The new edition really only needs some minor adjustments to really spice up the game and this sounds like it’s going the right direction.
Get hyped!
I hope they announce what models are being cut early so I can scoop up a couple of boxes of Morgul knights. Looking bleak for my favorite calvary with no screen time
Nah, they will likely stay in a Minas Morgul LL, but might not be able to take more Mordor based stuff, Great Beast, Mordor Uruks, etc. I will also buy a box or two if I am wrong though, haha.
The legacy part have me the most conserned. GW, and all other companies, do their best to increase profit. If You do not acquire more customers, You start to "milk" Your regular ones. My greatest fear is that all core units will be replaced with new ones, and the old ones will be obsolete. Warriors of Rohan, Riders of Rohan, warriors of minas tirith, orcs etc. To play in tournaments we would have to replace our old ones. That will bring back profit to GW. I'm not sure how much more money I will spend on MESBG. I have all the models I need, allthough not all painted, to play all the old supplements. I'm completly fine with staying with the rules and profiles as they are pr today.
Appreciate the positive tone about the new edition looking forward to the QOTRB
Always enjoy any middle earth content, reports, news chats, even army talks!
Don't take my black numenoreans from me! Finally got my customized proxy sculpts exactly how I wanted them!
Crazy times, I still remember when it was released and I brought a couple of packs of metal mordor orcs
Welp I hope Murin and Drar don't get binned cause I really wanted to use them in a fellowship alliance lol I'll just have to try and play it a bunch before the new rules come out haha
A lot people are scared of the changes and really worried. One thing that makes me have some hope is that they are coming out with this new edition to coincide with War of the Rohirrim, which is great. They completely and utterly ignored and skipped anything to do with Rings of Power. That, to me, says that someone, somewhere, is actually looking at what they're attaching their name to and thinking before leaping. They're not just going for easy cash grabs and attaching their name to projects that they think are worth it. At least that's how I read it.
Except New Line who they have a licence with didnt make ROP and if GW made a feal with Amazon they sure as hell would be saying byebye to their lisence with New Line. If they could have, and thought it would make money, they 100% wouldnt have cared about the quality
I think Far Harad, Khand and Drauden are all potentially on the chopping block
Very excited for the new edition. Thanks for keeping us up to date
Man, i'm so excited for this. Gandalf is my favorite character in middle-earth and i'd love for him to be more playable on the tabletop.
Honestly all the old models going into the legacy category is kind of sad for new players like me, it's so frustrating to see models in the book that look interesting to add to a future army and realise they're out of production :( especially regarding elite infantry like black numenoreans, Corsair Reavers (?), watchers of Karna, Abrakhan merchant guard, that would really elevate a list compared to the standard warriors but are now impossible to get unless you get them on eBay for a very high price... Pretty sad to see them go
Saruman needs a boost! So he can lead my huge Isengard Army better!😬
With the number of books, I imagine it's like this. GW has some licensing deals with New Line Cinema, and with the Tolkien Estate to be able to feature their IP in the game. However, with Rings of Power vs Peter Jackson's series vs the books, IP holders may now be saying you can use our IP only if it's not mixed in with stuff from other IPs. So all the stuff that was featured in PJ's movies can be in one book, but not in the same book as Tom Bombadil or Glorfindel, characters from the books but not featured in the movies.
Great video 👌 thanks for this summary 🙏
I just have 1 question: if one miniature is invalid because it's legacy, does it mean that there is a new miniature to replace it? Or are they deleting the miniature/profile from the game?
They will still have rules but those likely won't get updated and they will stop selling the mini.
First! New changes look interesting! As a newish player, I'm definitely not complaining about a little more streamlining with cover saves, etc.
Still sounds very much the same game, and I'm hopeful
Welcome aboard, so far the changes all seem well thought out and positive so I am super optimistic and excited
Great overview of the news, Jacob! I think a lot of people are overestimating the amount of models that will go into legacy. To me it seems that these models will probably be mostly named heroes that were invented by GW. For instance, Murin and Drar, The Golden King, etc. but I think many of them will stay in the Armies of Middle Earth book.
Regarding the new army list system, I think it will be great, and that it will be based on the old Legions of Middle Earth supplement. For instance, say we get the following army lists: The Grey Company, The Garrison of Minas Tirith, and the Fiefdoms of Gondor. They will all have their own bonuses and restrictions on wargear and models you can take. But you will be able to play them allied together because they all fight at The Pelennor. I think the amount of alliances and builds one could do will be massive with such a system!
Looking forward to the next edition!
Very new to this game (haven't even received my first order of models in the mail yet), and I'm curious about two things that I'm not sure I understand due to being so new.
1. It sounds to me like the legendary legions thing is going to prevent people from creating their own narratives withn middle-earth, or "what-if" scenarios. I feel that the ability to do this is key to wargaming, whether historical or fantasy and losing this would be a real blow. Experimenting with the lore and playing it out on the table was something I was excited to get into with this game, now it feels like I will be limited to the cannon scenes from the films and maybe the books (films seem to be getting the spotlight of course).
2. I'm an old school fantasy gamer and love the sculpts by the Perry brothers, Brian Nelson etc that were done for this game. I love the toned down, almost historical look that this game has which suites the literature. It sounds like a lot of these old figures may become irrelevant both because the ones for profiles still in play might be getting new models and because many profiles are just going to be tossed out. What do you think this means for someone like me who was excited to collect and play the 2001-2012 models?
Thanks for the comment! Welcome to the game!
1. I am really glad about this change because so ofter peoples "What-if" scenarios end up being what if the most powerful unit form this army and the most powerful army from this other army were together. Keep in mind that you can still do whatever you like within a play group and in casual games but to keep to game balanced and thematic I think this is a great change. They have said that these will be based on the story so expect book and films.
2. I am a huge fan of the original sculpts for these miniature. I go to great lengths to collect armies off entirely metal miniatures. There will be a limited amount of miniatures that will be moved into legacies (Not thrown in the bin) these will be models that have not been in production and not widely used for several years. These will be units that newer players have likely never heard of such as Morgul stalkers, Feral Uruk Hai, or Corsair reavers and will have no significant impact on the game. There have been several different models for the same profiles (There are over a dozen Aragorn sculpts!) and you are able to choose whichever models you like the most. For example there are new Guard of Galahdrim court models however I prefer the old ones so they are the ones I use. This extends to several other armies that I have. For example my most recent project is the Uruk Hai scouts and rather than using the plastic kit I have manage to collect the original metal miniatures from 2001 to be my army. This is very common and the existance of newer models will have no impact to your ability to collect and play older models. The original perry sculpts are some of my favorite of all time and I will continue to collect and play with them!
@@ConquestCreations Got it, thank you. I am also not a fan of power gaming in any of the games I play (though I know it has its place for those who do like it), and "what if the most powerful armies joined" etc is boring to me for sure. But is the game losing the ability to combine forces that would be interesting regardless of power?
I guess I'm just not understanding to what degree factions or characters will be able to mix and it sounds like they won't be able to at all if it didn't happen in the canon. And if it is canon options only then there is no imagination nor creativity allowed at all, no?
The Intelligence stat may also resolve around terrain - after all, you need some intelligence how to get across a cavern, ditch, how to swim well or jump a wall without tripping over or even climb a ladder! There’s tons of complicated rules about this. Simplify it like they’ve done with weapons.
Perhaps it’s a stat to automatically pass said test/check. It seems to be about situational awareness from the teaser.
Thats a really good idea
Thank you so much on your comments
This part where you think its possible that the army lists as they are now, are going to still be an option helps me bear all this upcoming change. I just want to be able to make fully unamed lists, with for examlle captains and troops only and i thought that i wouldn't be able to anymore as i was sure that we would be obliged to include named heroes everytime
Do you think osgiliath veterans will go to the legacies?
Hi, new player here, been playing since February/March of this year and I'm really excited for the future of the game. I agree with you that soup lists can be unfun to play against. I think black numenoreans are probably legacy, may gulavhar? Overall I think the simplifying of list creation is great for new players and for us to more easily grow our community. I think more focus on the thematic play will let us focus on what really makes the game fun to me, TACTICS.
You have some very good points there. I totally agree with you about scoring each turn. This is one of the worst parts to score just in the end so you ignore the mission like 90% of the game...
Black Numenorians being gone would be a tough one but overall I'm just 100% pumped for this.
the art for the new film War of the Rohiram you clearly see Mumakil's and Haradrim, so it's not guaranteed Dunlendings.
I just want to see LOTR back in GW stores again, I'm not expecting the variety that they had in stores back in 2004, but a bit more variety than just the battle hosts boxes.
Great video. I am really looking forward to the new edition and the hope of new and old models returning.
Really enjoyed the video! This is the only positive, buoyant video about the changes I’ve seen, which is much more in line with how I feel about the article 👍🏻 A lot of doomsayers out there…
Legacy is sure to be some models that don’t sell well and/or are older, but I strongly suspect that everything Dunland (and some Easterling stuff) will go to make way for brand new armies from War of the Rohirrim.
The Rise of Angmar release feels exactly like what happened to 40K players last edition, where World Eaters finally got their own codex and a brand new line of models, and then 10th edition was almost immediately announced. GW’s gonna do what GW’s gonna do I guess lol
Except it's NOT "exaclty like what happened" because in this case GW is pulling a rare community-minded move and letting us know beforehand what is happening. If you're upset about a book coming out and having it partially invalidated WHEN YOU KNOW BEFOREHAND, then I think you're just looking for reasons to be mad at GW (and let's be honest, we don't need to fabricate reasons). We know it's happening; don't like it, don't buy it. Simple.
Honestly another money grab. Rulebook + 3 different army books. While also making the additional supplements obsolete, so they can go through them all again. When this would have been a great opportunity to consolidate them into a single book. The legacy idea also scares me, similar to what they did to space marines making whole armies obsolete to sell more product. The minor game changes sound good, but didn't need a whole new addition.
Really hoping that Khand will stay in the Armies of Middle Earth book and have a legion with the Easterlings. I just finished converting a load of models to make a Khand list on the cheap (saved about £300 in comparison to buying GW!!!) and would like to be able to play them officially!
I will be buying the Angmar book, I have every other LOTR book and want to complete my collection. Also have nearly all the original metal figures, but stopped collecting when finecast came out.
Hardly ever play now but I really enjoy watching Jacob and his videos.
I played a little with the Hobbit rules, then moved on to the new version but did not use many of the new rules and never played a LL. Will have to see if these rules can draw me back.
I will be very interested to see the new army books and who gets left out, Tom B ?
I hoped they would remove legendary legions completely and now it's legendary legions only... replaying movie/books scenes is what scenarios are for.
Really looking forward to your legends predictions, hope either comes out more than 2 hours before the legends lists 😂
I said this on the MGG video for this, but it feels like this edition wasn't planned to come out until middle of next year (short turn around from the supplement and not having all the books ready for launch) but the license holder probably wanted the new edition to launch with the War in Rohan movie.
I would also say that with how slow the balance cycle is with MESBG the legacies shouldn't affect too much unlike 40k. In 40k you see points and rules updates so often that the abandonware legacy stuff in that isn't balanced to the rest. But with how MESBG updates have worked I wouldn't be surprised is the legacy stuff stays largely in line with the rules seeing focus.
I think the new edition launch was always planned to coincide with the new movie - if there's no movie, there's no new edition, no launch box, no new models, etc. But the Angmar supplement was probably supposed to come out at least 6 months ago if not longer. The delays in Old World (which is made by the same studio) undoubtedly affected the schedule for MESBG.
@@seanwilliams7073 Sounds about right.
It's the other way around, Angmar book is very late. We'll know for sure when it comes out and someone checks the print date
How does the announcement of the new Arnor and Angmar models work with the new Army and rule book? Surely they didn’t announce new models that will go straight to legacy and not be playable at their own events?
Those models will 100% not be in legacies. They have already announced that the rules for them will come out for free. The reason they are making legacies is to make space for new models like the Angmar ones
More narrative play should not come at the loss of freedom in list building.
My loved faction is easterlings, my favorites style of gameplay is cavalry, so i play easterlings heavy cavalry list, and to do that i must allies with mordor, if i can no more to it i'll just leave the game.
I left 40k and don't want to deal with GW ruinning list when they want again
As one of the handful of people who are into this game for the game parts and not the setting I'm a little concerned the all LL list building might be too restrictive and annoying for me
I get lots of these changes. But the invalidating of the validity of models your customers bought and have painted leads to them needing to be replaced. Then matching a paint job to something you finished years ago to make a legal list. That's the real enthusiasm killer...
Just got black nums so I’d be really sad if they eliminate them
Would love to see silmarillion stuff. Turin, Beleg, the fall of Gondolin etc! Probably won’t happen but hey, I can dream.
It is not that they probably can't, they simply do not have the rights. Also, power creep would be crazy Glaurung is bigger and stronger than Smaug, they'd have to have defense 12 fight 12 with mind control powers, he'd be 1000 points minimum, kek.
I’m hoping for fight 5 fountain court guards plus Boromir’s banner 😈
What about top of fight value 2? *cries in moria black shields*
Keen to see the new edition and what new models we may get
Will we ever get data cards. Probably the biggest pain compared to their other games, is having to scroll the book for profiles each time
I wonder if the rise of angmar book will be cheaper than usual. If it was £15 instead of £30 I bet they'd sell more than twice the amount
I don't mind the restriction of making everything, essentially, a legendary legion. Trying out really strange army builds is fun, but MEBSG has a very specific setting, so the playable armies should make sense within that setting. Historical wargames don't tend to combine armies that never fought together, so I don't see why MEBSG should. Sure, it's a fictional universe, but I think most players treat it as history.
True, although many war gamers also create "what if" scenarios that are rooted in history. I'm new here but it seems like this approach can be done with the current MESBG rules, but that this legendary legions change will make that approach impossible? Am I understanding correctly? Are we losing the ability to create our own narratives?
I m confused about the 3 Rulebooks, will they seperate fractions into 2 books? Dunno but I think this would be super annoying. For example easterlings; will the rules for the basic warriors be in the LotR Rulebook but everything else in the „armies“ Book?
I pray that they publish the rules for ONE fraction in ONE Book, if Not my inner monk would be so mad
Thanks for the update.
Are the miniatures "warriors of arnor" comming back? I really want them
Hope you manage to transition to a new place. I don't play MESBG, but I do very much enjoy this channel for its narrative content.
I will be SOOOOOOOO upset if they axe Black Numenorians. I just started a few weeks ago and Black Numenorians are somthing I've loved in the lore and it was a deal maker for me to start collecting.
My guess for their primary goal for this edition is to grow with the release of new media again. MESBG was the best selling GW game when the Lotr movies were being released, since Return of the King the game has been in slow decline because the interest just isn't there. The Hobbit movies bumped it a bit but not much and again the game went into decline in popularity despite how nice the models are and how clean the rules are.
So they want to build the game up and bring in new players, with the revamp of the PJ Tolkien cinematic universe. So we're getting the War of the Rohirrim and The Hunt for Gollum and if they are good movies, they might re-ignite interest in the game.
What they don't want then, is a bunch of new people coming to the game against veterans of years gone by, who know the ins and outs of complex rules like special strikes, because gating the game behind higher tier players, who the majority of those who still play the game will be, will just discourage new players. All PvP style games that are old have this issue, the vets are not willing to give new players the breathing room because they are desperate for games themselves, and ultimately do more harm to the game than good. The other thing they want to avoid is a bunch of armies these movie going audiences have never heard of, all over the table putting them off, or not attracting their interest. So the purge of unrecognisable armies and the levelling of the playing field with rules trims are needed if they want the game to be more newcomer friendly.
The Fiefdoms aren't really in the films? Kinda?
Do you think any factions will be yeeted? I have a horrible feeling that the Fiefdoms will be relegated to legends.
I get the outrage from the competitive folks. This is a huge deal to you and it’s a bummer that so much is changing because of the effort you’ve put into learning and honing your experience….But as a casual person…..more invested in the creative (converting etc) side of the hobby… I don’t find spending hours “optimizing a list” fun. I’m terrible at the game, I know it. I just want to see some cool models, check out cool terrain and roll some dice. The new army choice style sounds like it will help me and other casual folks simplify the process a bit. Also seeing simply can / can’t ally on a miniatures profile etc may actually help some people consider different options that they don’t see before because they didn't spend much time familiarizing themselves with the old matrix.
I know “git gud” is a fair argument when it comes to playing / knowing all the ins and outs of the game…. But a lot of folks just won’t. That’s not their scene….. I feel like the writers know that and playing into it. Certain folks are going to find the depth of play intimidating. In the devs minds, it will not be a little more accessible.
The same goes for “special strikes,” unfortunately I’m one of those “I forgot / never use them” type of people. So for me… nothing is lost there. I would get stuck reading about them every time 🤦🏼♂️
My concern is just how much “book stuff” will take a back-seat to movie stuff. I love so much of the content that didn’t make it into the movies and hope it is t treated too differently.
But it’s always hard to be given something and then see it taken away. I hope you fellas have enough left to still enjoy the activity.
Thanks for making the content that you do
Do you think they will update the battlehost sets or maybe add more?
The existing BH boxes are unlikely to change. I don't think any of those models will be moving to legends.
As for new boxes, if they want to follow the same formula of 1 mounted hero, and 2 warrior boxes, all in plastic, then they will need to release more plastic kits. Currently not many other factions (maybe none at all?) meet this criteria.
Feral Uruk hai will definitely be legacied. Along with most other old metal models that came in 3s. Like serpent guard, Rohan royal guard (maybe not those actually) osgiliath veterans, Mordor Uruk hai etc.
Mordor Uruks are for sure in the movie though, and what about Shaggers, I guess he will be the only one :(
Getting rid of most of the 3 pack metals is a stupid idea. There are still whole armies that need those in some way or shape, Rangers, Khzad, Fiefdoms, Minas Tirith, Rohan, Elves, Numenor etc
@@ric1194 yeah, I’d rather they kept all the stuff, but knowing GW, that’s what I’d put mum bet on.
Trash all the named wraiths while they’re at it?
@@Edward-Plantagenet hopefully not. I always loved the fact they named each of them.
It’s strange to split the books up since it will split up factions quite a bit. I expect armies like Minas Tirith to be split across three sources.
I think people overthink think this. If an army is in the films every profile will go in that book. If its in the books it'll go in the armies book. So Minas Tirith will all be in LotR book. Fiefdoms will be in Armies book. Although I feel like they may condense those into a 'Gondor' faction.
@@ric1194 that would make sense if it was army based rather than profile based. Hope that’s the case.
Worried about the legendary legions only thing. Also four army books is fucked, just gonna pdf them I think. New models and some renewed focus on mesbg is the only thing I am excited for
It's only 3 army books, Armies of Middle Earth, Armies of Lord of the Rings, and Army of the Hobbit. New models and renewed focus is 99% of what is coming. A few new books just comes with that
Yea but if you live in NZ, 3 books is like $400 lmao. Dont get me wrong, I really hope to be happy with how it all lands. Also while I have you - its Aragorn with an R :p hes not a herb
@@CaptnLoken hahahaha you know I've been avoiding all of those comments!
You need some lights man, it's so dark
Best review I have seen so far very posative I like your ideas tbh I'm happy games going to be more thematic it's just not the same when you can't relate to them i very often quote daine when playing iron hills you can't do that with far harad
Regular Elves always seemed to have an unfairly high fight stat in this game. Do you find it balanced?
Thanks for the comment,
Regular elves fight value is what makes them unique, it's absolutely not unbalanced at all. Of the 3 elven factions none of them are considered unusually powerful at all.
Here for the news breakdown and opinion.
Love the new content, keep it up 👍👍👍
A friend and mine might get into this, if I buy the Mordor Army box the one with the witch king that GW sells, will I be ok in regards to legacy stuff? It just looks like a good value box and I really like the Witch King of Angmar as a big villain character. My friend has pointed out he likes Rivendel and The Rangers as his potential factions, will those survive the edition changes or go to legacy?
You will be completely fine with all of those choices. People have massively over exaggerated the concern about legacies. Firstly legacy models will still be 100% playable, secondly they will mainly be models that have been out of production for a long period of time.
@ConquestCreations ok, I just was worried we might get invested and then be in trouble. Neither of us does tournament style stuff. But as long as things are available and being produced, we should be good? I think those factions are still in production. Thanks. :)
@@onemisterfranko If you aren't planning on doing tournaments then there is absolutely nothing to worry about and you will always be able to play with legacies. Those factions are all still in production
@ConquestCreations ok cool, thanks. Always nice to confirm. I'm amazed the battle host box is fairly affordable. I think we're trying to focous more on a skirmish size over say, massed battle.
@@ConquestCreationsit’ll be interesting to see how they handle Morgul Knights. No dismounts available for them for a long time (mind you they did look awful) AND MK not in the movies. So, legacy the knights (it would be criminal to zap such a superb model though) OR do new plastic dismounts. If I had to bet money I’d say legacy the knights 😢
On the plus side though, my proxy Kardush is a terrible model (best STL I could find in days of searching), I might not need to worry about him any more!
I don't think elves go to fight 6. Would kind of break the purpose of the change. There will be only a couple of new fight 5 troops and elves still have elven weapons. That F5 troops will be only really elite warriors like the Black guard (i guess). Most armys will still cap at F4 warroirs.
Also Azog and Bolg will stay at fight 7. With a bunch of Heros changing from 6 to 7 they will not be that unique/ crasy strong any more.
as much as i really dislike their being three books instead of two, we should be seeing the last 6 years of supplement book profiles rolled in, which i dont mind
Didn't think they'd go up to F12 and I'm actually glad they didn't. Capping at F10 helps those striking from F5 or 6 to tie those at striking from 7 or 8
I think you may have missed the non-committal soft confirmation of a release date in that last sentence, where they say the February FAQ will be for the new edition.
You are right I definitely didn't pick up on that. My guess has been that the current edition will be out pre Christmas but reading that again is interesting.
One option is that I'm right about the pre Christmas release and then Feb will be the first FAQ of the new books? That would be 3 months after launch
@@ConquestCreations That tracks with the release of the new movie too. With it coming out on the 13th of December I'd bet money they're shooting to release an accompanying starter set with the new edition on the same day
@@ConquestCreations Oct / Nov rule / army book release, Dec new starter set maybe?
Keep these type videos coming
They are probably doing this to make everything easier for new players. No special strikes, no alliances and combining of different lists, in the way, and so on. All to jump on the hype train of the Ride of the Rohirrim that’s coming out. Which I understand, but I don’t like how they cater to much towards the new players and not towards the current loyal players that kept the hobby going for 20+ years. Building funny thematic lists with yellow alliances was fun. But everything is turning into one big pool of LL’s now. Although it may help with people one dropping the Witch King or Sulladan into random lists. But that can be fixed in other ways.
I get that some special strikes were being abused like quartering yourself with stabbing to get a win if you are holding certain objectives or maybe even the whole spear support thing. Where you could lower the fight value the front rank because it wouldn’t matter anyway due to a spear support. But here are other ways to fix that too.
But then again it wouldn’t surprise me if a few years when all the new players are in they’ll say ‘look we introduced a cool new method where you can have different strikes depending on your weapon’.
And let’s be honest here the new book is just to sell you yet another book.
Thanks for the comment! I disagree that this is just catering for new players. As a very experienced player I think that changing the alliance system and removing special strikes is a good move. They are also adding in intelligence, a whole new stat that will make the game more complex rather than just simplified for new players. There was the option to build thematic lists with yellow alliances but 99% of the time I saw a yellow alliance it was driven by power rather than theme.
The only reason the Games Workshop makes anything is to sell it. They are a business after all. With the Rise of Angmar book they did state that it would be invalidated soon after release so gave a big warning not to buy it. That being said I do know people who are still planning on buying it so that they have a full collection of books.
@ConquestCreations I don't see any positive aspect of removing special strikes. It ads tactical/strategic aspects to the game. If people don't like to use it or don't understand it, they are free to not use it.
It makes the Serpent horde poison re-roll way stronger if other models can't stab/feint.
The balrog will be nerfed as well it gained a benefit with it is very useful if you fight like 4 models and you want that heroic combat to go off.
Easterlings are now stuck at s3 with their axes and nothing to help.
Dunland, Khazad-dûm, Hobbits, Moria, and Rohan warriors also feel it. Although Prowlers could do without it.
In the way simplified and no more special strikes. All seems to point to make it easier for new players. The intelligence stuff remains to be seen. But I doubt it's going to be complicated.
Thematic yellow alliance was fun. Yeah, you can use them for power. But so can LL's. The Yellow alliance won't be that much better. Plus, the less powerful alliance is now removed. The players are mow forced on more monotone stuff. Which will probably lead to even more Dragon Emperor en Assault on Lothlorien.
Yeah, of course they want to make money. Buy it's the way they do it. Profit margin of about 43%. The head office in the UK is absolutely disconnected from the hobby and is only about money now. Buddy of mine used to work at GW and left because of increasing greed and weird stuff from head office.
@@ArchangelTyrael Interesting I am a big fan of their removal. I will preface that by saying that I do hope that they become special rules so that some models can still access them. For example I hope that Grim hammers retain the ability to bash.
They have said that every profile is being adjusted so its impossible to talk about buffs and nerfs when all the profiles will be different anyway. When it comes to the Balrog I think monsters and brutal power attacks in general are being adjusted as well so we have no clue about anything balance related.
All of those profiles being stuck at Strength 3 is part of the purpose of removing special strikes. Other special strikes such as feint provided 0 tactical strategic aspect to the game as a lot of the time the choice was automatic.
As a veteran hobbyist the simplification of in the ways and removal of special strikes isn't just for new players. Both provided very little to the game as I am glad to see them go. You are obviously welcome to disagree because its a matter of perspective but it doesn't only serve new players.
I completely disagree that players are forced to play monotone stuff. This is all to encourage people to play thematic moments from the films and books and give extra special rules to reward that to make the armies feel even more like they do in the story. I am glad that I wont be playing against filthy lists like Gwahir added into everything or Radagst and Galadriel added in everywhere and I am happy to loose people doing obscure theme lists in exchange for that. In regards to Dragon Emperor and Assult on Lothlorien we again can't comment on anything balance related because everything is being rewritten.
I am confused about people having issues with Game Workshop being profitable. That is the objective of a business. If we look at their products and recent released they are putting out incredible kits that show a great appreciation of the hobby, I am not sure where the idea that they are disconnected comes from when they consistently put out the best hobby miniature kits in the world. I don't feel any need to protect Games Workshop but I am completely confused about why people think they are so evil when they create the hobby that we all love. There are heaps of other Miniatures companies, hobbies, or activities that we could be doing that aren't Games Workshop related.
@ConquestCreations The problem with removing the alliances is that you are limited by what they think of. Instead of being limited by your own imagination. I could play anything I would read in the books.
Such as a real last alliance: Rivendell, Numenor, Lothlorien, Khazad-dûm and Mirkwood. Was not necessarily really powerful but fun.
Imrahil and knights with Rohan, attack on Angmar by Rivendel Grey Havens and Gondor.
Maybe some of these will be LL's and some won't. The problem is that they'll limit you.
Yeah, you could abuse it and drop Radagast, Witch-king or Sulladan everywhere, but there are other ways to fix it.
Profit isn't the issue it's the ludicrous margins (almost 45%) while creators are being underpaid. Even companies like Google have a lower profit margin. The way it's being run by head office isn't great. As someone with more inside knowledge and friends and than regular hobbist, I just don't like where it has headed. Which seems to be supported by certain important people leaving due to reasons like this.
The stores used to be a nice place. Now staff is cut and playing in the stores is sverely limited. You used to be able to paint in the store and use some of their paints. To test if you liked a certain piant and then buy it. Now it's basically buy your stuff and get out. Heck they are making rules about banning super glue in their stores.
I reckon the whole Far Harad faction might get the Legacies chop. Not popular, fully made of materials they are phasing out, fully GW creation, and arguably dicey miniature design.
Is it not popular? I know a lot of guys who absolutely love the camals.
Also khand might also be up there despite representing the wainriders
It would be a real shame to see Far Harad or Khand moved to legends. They are both popular for their largely unique impact mechanics on camels and chariots, and it would be a real feel-bad for all the people who have collected these all-metal armies to see them become expensive paperweights.
How to get started with MESB now without taking the chance of wasting any money on models that wont fit together into new legions? Or do I just wait till the new version comes out?
Great questions! I would not buy any rulebooks at this stage. Build a thematic army that is based on your favorite moment from the book or movies and you will 100% be totally fine
@@ConquestCreationsI’d try to avoid anything that’s not plastic at the moment too!
@@Edward-Plantagenet There will be countless metal models still in rotation. They are rereleasing Arnor in their original metal
@@ConquestCreations For sure. If I was just starting out though I’d be avoiding metals at least until I was certain what was still going to be around. Mouth of Sauron (awful though it is) will likely still be around (hopefully with a new sculpt!), named wraiths, hmmm. Not so sure about that one. I really hope they don’t get axed but they don’t fit the criteria to remain.
Jacob releases a video, GW release news. Coincidence? I think not 😂
I feel that the new rules being written by a tournament winner is really bad news for casual narrative players, who are actually the majority of players.
Hope they don't get rid of gulavhar i literally just bought him
I like legendary legions
Keep em coming!
poor timing indeed! will grimbold get his horse in the new edition 😂.
I think tom and Goldberg will go by the wayside. maybe things like the Isengard troll and Sharman might become legacy. I think that legacy models will be more those models that are scenario than matchplay, things that promote a negative game experience.
Hmm maybe the stalkers, the Black Numenorians, Mordor Uruk hai, the Feral Uruks, the Osgiliath veterans, some olf dwarf kits, Gulavhar, the shade?, the outriders/ sons of Eorl, will move into legends... I hate u GW for doing that in every game.
Honestly, I think I like the current rules better.
Jacob: There are no Black Numenoreans shown in the movies.
The Mouth of Sauron: Am I a joke to you? (well the way he's been depicted in the movie is kind of a joke)
I think they'll be prioritizing whether a model/concept is cool or popular (like the Black Nums) rather than whether they're shown in the movies or not when it comes binning stuff as Legacy. I think the Legionization of everything can backfire if they haven't been designed very carefully with a ton of options and flexibility - a lot of potential to create an outrage here. The Intelligence stat can be designed to interact with magical powers to great effect indeed... It should be easier to Transfix a 'tarded Cave Troll than a galaxy-brain like Elrond (who is currently ridiculously easy to Transfix/Paralyze which is just dumb)
Its pretty bizarre that no one on the comments is mentioning that the current edition is going away, it will still be just as much of an option as now. The fact the they said the narrative supplements will still be usable is very exciting, plus the free rules download for Arnor means that this short shelf life of the Angmar book is being completely exaggerated by current players.
I am sure everyone will be very balanced and sensible in their reactions here haha. As long as the core mechanics stay as close to the current edition as possible (as they've said they will be), then I'm not too worried. I'm a casual/narrative fan, so the army building changes dont particularly effect me. I'm much happier with their focus being on thematic army construction instead of the 40k mess where competitive rules
Competitive soups were antithetical to the spirit of the game, and Middle-Earth if you want to take it that far.
@@ClaymoreLinx unfortunately it's always the way. Balancing a game is very very difficult and competitive people are always going to try and break it for the sake of winning. I hope the team just don't f it all up for some quick model sales
The same thing about every new edition of 40K when it comes out. How they’ve streamlined the rules blah blah.
What I don’t get is how they say the new MESBG rules are being completely streamlined etc but keeping the same mechanics’s! Then why the heck change it? Also, here’s a new supplement which by the way won’t be valid in about three months but we will still make loads of excuses about it and then keep our money!! 😂😂
I'm looking forward to seeing what changes are coming. I do wonder if we'll see Goblin town with Bows or a Corsair Ballista?
While your timing yesterday was put off by GW your video was still super relevent
For me I feel thats people goimg instore or messaging staff at GW and telling them their thoughts
To me the in the way was a thumbs up but strikes was a thumbs down for just being as clear as mud
For me I wiah scenarios were pointed , counting all points , so if its a Fiefdom v corsairs but I only have MT & Denathors Halls list I can have a hero similar value &points so I can play the scenario , even if I dont have the army yet
A controversial idea , for tiered heroes Id be keen to see “Hero of Dominion” - This hero is a King or Dark Lord & is expected to lead armies , he can have a company of upto 24 warriors {Aragorn King, Theoden , Kings or Stewards of Men, Witch King of Angmar , Lord Elrond , Gil Galad etc..} and Dependent and independent Heros (im not sure how these two would work practically but I feel that some heroes I have dont fit “Minor hero” or dependent”
I wish that although the model is obselete , that in tournaments they were still legit to use , with od rules u
My soup 😢
Changes to justify a new edition. In the way wasn’t bothering anyone. Special strikes were fine. If you didn’t like or understand them you could just skip them. Taking them out removes player choice. Parry and stab could have been reworked to be more nuanced, but they didn’t need to nuke them all.
This is why I hate the competitive community in GW’s games. THey’re constantly whining about wanting things streamlined and simplifying and so GW keeps pulling fun and interesting stuff out of the game so it can be more ‘streamlined’ and ‘simplified’. If you want streamlined and simplified go play freaking checkers. It’s all of that and it’s balanced competitively. You don’t even have to paint your models!
Oh, and then while we’re ‘streamlining’ and ‘simplifying’ let’s just add a whole new completely unnecessary stat that nobody asked for! So we can strip it out next edition under the guise of ‘streamlining’?
Wonder if monsters will be any better in this edition. Cos goddam trolls need a win
I completely agree! I want to see Mordor troll behaving like the did in the movies!
@@ConquestCreations monsters are just really cool and the reason I play evil, I'd love to see some of them more viable with more variety like the dweller in the dark (totally no Moria bias here)
I didn’t want to be doom and gloom but nothing about this seems good. I’ve only been playing mesbg for a few years now but it’s stood out to me as the most enjoyable and balanced game GW has ever had. I was actually extremely thankful it wasn’t like their other properties which are typically a mess with sole purpose to sell plastic and then die, another edition coming before the current one is even balanced out.
All the books collected for mesbg now being not just outdated but having no place killed any enthusiasm I had at the prospects of a new edition; I was excited for the Angmar book. I think I’ll just get that and stick with the old stuff unless somehow this new edition really is amazing.
As someone who has been playing for 9 years what about it doesn't seem good? So far every change that they have announced seems really good. At a minimum Spreading out the fight values, more thematic rules, and reducing special strikes are all great.
The books initially seem like a big loss but there are some positives. The competitive play section of the supplements are gone but the narrative is still there and all the competitive play is rolling into the new armies books so you won't need to repurchase a Gondor at War 2.0 which will end up reducing the cost for new players to get in.
@@ConquestCreationsI have seen most people positive on the rules changes, it is mainly the change to faction division and moving models to legends that people worry about, and I'd say with justification.
Forcing everyone to always build in a legendary legion structure is a huge loss in freedom and creativity. And going on the precedent of the same system in 40k, legend profiles are likely to be all but forgotten (an average store running events will likely disallow them, since that is the default expectation GW is setting for players, and even if allowed, there is no way GW will sell legend models, making them completely inaccessible to players).
Great job mate, but I wonder why you wear a jacket?
What…?
Hey mate, thanks for the comment, I am Australian so it's winter down here.
took me a literal decade to find my mahuds on mexico, and now they are probably getting removed? fuck GW, the game is fine as it is, maybe just light rebalancing and some new generic missions