How do we know the apocrypha isn't scripture?
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2024
- Michael Pearl answers a question received from a viewer: How do we know that the apocryphal books are not holy scripture?
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I will always read books that MAN has banned and hidden.
Yup
Paul definitely knew and internalized the message of Wisdom of Solomon when he wrote Romans
Why not bring it up?
I believe apocrypha can be inspired works. If not, we know they offer real information as historical - such as Maccabees. However, doesn’t seem to change any message of salvation.
Grace through faith alone ❤
i 100% agree to you..
James 2:17-18
Regardless of what may or may not be accurate and historically what was used, what is the relation to salvation and Christ? We have the prophets and we have the accounts of the apostles, what more do we really need? All we need is the proclamation of Chist and the knowledge of salvation. Everything else just satisfies the curiosity of the flesh. And yes im the worst when it comes to chasing down rabbit holes trying to understand things that are irrelevant, and chasing potential fables. I have to stop and remind myself regularly that it doesn't matter and "his ways are not my ways, and his thoughts are not my thoughts... " and just trust the Lord. If he can be trusted with salvation he'll work out the rest. And what more evidence can we give to convert someone, but the Word of Christ? If they did not hear the prophets they will not hear these obscure fables.
Some of those books have clues to some of the things going on in times past. You can’t treat them like Bible, but don’t just call them all total fiction either. Get what you can to help support the real bible.
Those are doctrine of demons
The bible doesn’t need support, are you saying Gods words need support?
The bible alone is enough those other books are problematic and could cause people to deceive others people are using those books to say a lot of wickedness
Doesn’t it say in Revelation if you add or delete to Gods word you will be cursed
@@bluwng yeah, no forgiveness for that sin
I wouldn’t ask, how do we know the apocrypha isn’t scripture. I would ask, how do we know the apocrypha isn’t inspired by God. The word scripture isn’t the same word as inspired. Because the satanic bible has scriptures, the Quran has scriptures, the Mormon bible has scriptures.
Scripture is what we read, and the bible contains scripture, if it was never in the bible that means it is not our scripture. And the apocrypha was never in the jewish bibles from jesus’ time because mainstream judaism had the same amount of books that are repositioned in the protestant bible which would mean the extra book were placed in when the catholics came about in the late 70-300ad, and i know the jews kept the apochrypha to the side but that was for studying/reading purposes only, the details and prophecy written in those books were taken as a grain of salt
2 Samuel 1:18
“(Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use ofthe bow: behold, it iswritten in the book of Jasher.)”
🙏 Thank you, I'm on the hunt for more biblical apocryphal cross references
The book of Jasher is gone, it has been forgotten for thousands of years
Nope was found with the dead sea scrolls @qwerty_L
Joshua 10:13, mentions Jasher, also another verse in one of the Samuels mention Jasher.
The New Testament quoted from these books several times. This, in the very least, means that they read these books frequently and valued them. And he acts as though the apostles not quoting them directly as scripture is the nail in the coffin, but most of the Old Testament isn't quoted in that way. The best thing to do would be to see how the early church saw those books, and they, by in large, viewed them as scripture.
Give the best clearest example of New Testament quote of the apocrypha you know of.
@@dodleymortune8422 Hears one old testiment refernce I found for you 2 Samuel 1:18
“(Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use ofthe bow: behold, it iswritten in the book of Jasher.)”
@@Timbo_tango do we still have the book of Jasher that was quoted in the old testament?
@@Timbo_tangoJasher is a forgery
Though multiple early father did not think of it as scripture saint athanansius "appointed by the Fathers to be read by those who newly join us, and who wish for instruction in the word of godliness” and pope Gregory the great also thought it as well With reference to which particular we are not acting irregularly, if from the books, though not Canonical, yet brought out for the edifying of the Church, we bring forward testimony. Thus Eleazar in the battle smote and brought down an elephant, but fell under the very beast that he killed [1 Macc. 6, 46]…. Even looking into earlier church fathers some accepted multiple book not included in most canons such as Enoch and the Shepard of hermas.
The Bible is the most significant book ever written🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
As other people have said, there are many more references to some of these books, especially 1 Enoch.
Can they actually point to them? Or are they simply saying stuff with no proof or verification?
Can you name one?
@@truth.speakerJude 1:14 It was also about these people that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord has come with many thousands of His holy ones, 15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
There are also references to other biblical books within the 66 books. Not sure if he was accurate.
Well Jude actually did quote Enoch sooooo
Simply because the Bible quotes a particular name does not mean that the books that we have today are authentic works many of the times authors used false names to gain credibility The book of Enoch that we have today is full of heresies.
It was in the 1611 bible?
Yes it was. :-)
Yep….and in the original King James Bible
If that were significant, don't you think Jehovah God would have said so?
That Bible was made long before we had access to the large library of manuscripts we have today. Hence, it contains spelling errors, interpolations and mistakes. Indeed, you likely have never seen the 1611 version, since most today use the updated 1769 edition of the King James Bible (it was made by scholars so it cleans up much of the problems of the earlier edition)
God has not blessed the apocrypha
Jerome Preface to Book of Solomon: “Therefore, just as the Church also reads the books of Judith, Tobias, and the Maccabees, but does not receive them among the the canonical Scriptures, so also one may read these two scrolls for the strengthening of the people, (but) not for confirming the authority of ecclesiastical dogmas.”
That's way after the bible was written
By this logic we should throw out Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Song of Solomon, Lamentations, Obadiah, Nahum, and Zephania as they weren't quoted a single time in the New Testament either.
Im not sure why he uses this logic...The apocrypha is actually referred to in the NT but that doesn't make it Scripture. Paul quotes Greek pagans referring to Zeus. Does that make them Scripture too? It just means that part of it is true!
@@hexahexametermeterthen tell me what does make a book scripture
@@marc-aristidebestanag15 I know you aren't talking to me, but what makes what scripture is if the Holy Spirit (Ruah ha'Qodesh) leads me to it as truth and consistent and leads to salvation.
Looked straight into this, because I know God told us, and many false prophets shall arise. I know Satan is crafty and a deceiver and a trickster. I want to make sure I stay close to gods words, and gods words only. I got a strong feeling the Holy spirit has been guiding me and helping me stay on the right path. I believe the holy spirit guides us always. But I did see a video saying be careful not to let other spirits come in, and obviously to be talking to the spirit of God. We can be deceived and tricked easily. God ofcourse, its impossible for him to be tricked or fooled,as he all mighty, all knowledgeable and all powerful. The absolute top of everything and everyone. God bless everyone
New Testament quotes 2 Esdras and 1 Enoch my confused friend. 1 Enoch was found in the dead sea scrolls and quoted in Zachariah
Tell me where, I need to see this for myself.
2 Esdras was written after the apostles; Enoch isn't scripture just because it's mentioned, Paul quotes greek philosophers
Esdras and Enoch are pseudopigrapha works. They are not the original authors and the writers are seeking to gain credibility...very deceptive therefore cannot be trusted. There are many heresies in the book of Enoch. Just because the New testament tells a name or gives a name doesn't mean that the books that were have today are the original authors; they are not.
I think jesus did quote from it in matthew 23 about gathering the hens together. Also in hebrews 11 it makes mention of marters choosing to die which only happens in maccabees.
Yeah. Maccabees is a scary book to me. I read it once. Once is good enough for me. Now Bel and The Dragon, Tobit, Suzanna, 1 and 2 Esdras, The 12 Patriarchs and Sirach on the other hand....those are great books.
So every book in the old testament today was quoted in the new testament.
Umm he hasnt proven anything
Then learn how to listen to a video
Jerome Preface to Book of Solomon: “Therefore, just as the Church also reads the books of Judith, Tobias, and the Maccabees, but does not receive them among the the canonical Scriptures, so also one may read these two scrolls for the strengthening of the people, (but) not for confirming the authority of ecclesiastical dogmas.”
Didn’t explain it well
Book of Enoch is the latest trend has so much reverence from people including Christians
No one takes it for cannon tho. It's just another extra Biblical resource .
@@ByGraceThroughFaith777the Ethiopians take it as Canon
@@rad_lad_2715yes they do. Makes you think. Are we (if we take man's perspective) gonna listen to Africans or Europeans?
Do we not believe that when Jesus went to Egypt as boy, that The Idols bowed to him? Do we not believe that the Son of God has such authority? The only truth is Salvation through Jesus…his blood and his sacrifice saved us…end of story..
He read it so I’ll read it!
Book of Enoch is not in the Apocrypha Bible you must be thinking cepher Bible you switched it up that went over people here you don't know what you're talkin about!
"Apocrypha" literally means "Forbidden stories". All books excluded from the KJB is considered Apocrypha.
@@benhadlockit's not "forbidden stories" it simply means 'hidden' stop spreading misinformation
you are lying by saying that the Messiah never quoted from the apocrypha. Look at Mat 23:37
and 2 esdras 1:30
. Many of the quotes in Gospel do not even fulfill any old testament prophecy but yet it's attributed to it.
False it didn’t I have my bible don’t say a word about it in Matthew 23:37
@@Doctor1933 What translation do you have because we're reading from the King James Version.
Wait till you realise:
1) It's not a quote, Jesus always says "have you not read" or "it is written" when he cites scripture
2) 2 Esdras was written AFTER Jesus died, the argument you guys made is so bad
You don’t simply because you don’t have the authority to discern. Its a gift given only to a few privileged people actually.
In the Christian Bible it's called deuter canonical books. It was also on the Protestant Bible until they eventually removed it cuz it. Debunked protestantism
Um... the new testament does quote all of the deuterocanon you can look up where it does, especially on the sermon on the mount. Also you can't apply the logic of "people wrote it after the fact therefore it is just a historical book not scripture" and not see that its entirely contradictory to books like kings and chronicles where they reference things like the book of Jasher to say that they get these accounts.
Weak argument. If you believe the council of nicea were god inspired to chose the correct books then you have to accept the apocrypha. His argument undermines the validity of the council of nicea and the entire basis for the New Testament being ‘scripture’ which at the time they were written we of course not scripture. Only the Old Testament was.
That in itself wouldn't even be sufficient "proof" for anything.
What support do the bible need
The book of Enoch has been carbon dated and is older than Daniel so something is actually up there that it has so much that Jews didn’t believe in and Jesus even referred to it in the kjv New Testament
Enoch is a collection of different books. The big reason its rejected is because it claimed Enoch himself was the messiah rather than jesus, both the jews and christians reject this. Theres other reasons for its rejection but thats the big one. Its possible that the other books of enoch are true except for the one that names enoch as the messiah. The ethiopian church considers enoch true, but they also interpret the scripture as enoch receiving a prophecy of jesus rather than directly being called the messiah.
there is a crucial error being made here. The firg claim he makes is that every book of the new testament references the old tentament (which is almost true, 1 and 2 john don't), but then he asks why the apocrypha isn't reference by the new testament, and purports this to be a test, that any book not referenced by Jesus or the apostles cannot be cannonical. What he misses is that if this standard were to really be applied to the old testament, he would have to reject ruth, esther, song of solomon, and others I know he would never reject on this basis
If Enoch wrote a book. Moses would have mentioned it in the torah
This man needs to update his knowledge of scripture. He appears to talk with an infallible air but anyone can see the holes in his words.
Viewer, even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:30 "By his word all things hold together." Countless Christian preachers teach that Jesus and the Apostles never quoted, or even alluded to, the Apocrypha. Hmm... even Mary quoted the Apocrypha.
Mary said, "He has brought down rulers from their thrones, but has exalted the humble." Luke 1:52
Sirach said, "He removes powerful rulers, replacing them with the humble." Sirach 10:14
The Book of Sirach was well known in Jesus' day. Many times throughout the gospels, Jesus expounds on Sira's teachings, and reflections on the Scriptures. Sometimes pushing much farther, adding his own radical teachings to the well known Jewish wisdom, correcting as needed, just like he corrected Moses.
Many early Church fathers regarded these "other books" as Scripture. Jesus and his Apostles read, taught from, quoted, and alluded to non-canonical books like Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, etc. Any ear that can hear can clearly see this throughout the New Testament.
Hundreds of years before false teachers decided what was inspired or not, Paul said "All Scripture" and he meant just that. 2 Timothy 3:17 is even a quote from Enoch, Jesus taught from Enoch right after he said, "You error not knowing the Scriptures," and a passage from Enoch is referred to as Scripture in the Gospel of Barnabas.
"Wisdom is hidden from most people, just as her name suggests." Sirach 6:22
PS: Where do you think Paul got "By his word all things hold together." For that matter, who does Paul quote or paraphrase most in his writings throughout the New Testament? Regardless of what the false teachers taught you... You guessed it! The Book of Sirach (Sirach 43:26).
There are a million people rejecting you here, we are near the end people won’t be swayed they are confused and stubborn.
Jesus declared what the scriptures were on the road to Emaus: The scriptures being read at that time were written by Ezra.
And also Luke 24:25, 25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. 28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them. 30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
I don't understand, can you elaborate? How did you get out of that that Jesus said the Old Testament ends with Ezra?
The claim that the apocrypha didn't quote the old testament is false. I'll give you just one example from Jesus him self. Read Matt. 23:37, then go read 2 Ezdras 1:30-33. There are many other quotes. Research it please.
Esdras definitely confirms Daniel and end times prophecy.
@Dakota Bledsoe I'm not debating weather the apocrypha is scripture or inspired, I'm pointing out that Jesus quoted the book of Ezdras. There are other quotes from the Bible from the apocrypha also. I recommend you take a look and judge for your self.
@Dakota BledsoeA lot of those books were written by the prophets; the books of Esdras are literally just 3rd and 4th Ezra.
Except that 2 Esdras was written after the life of Jesus
Cherry picking things so old you can not fathom for your personal believes should be at minimum closely examined.
The New Testament alludes to the Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus and 2 Maccabees. If you read the book called Wisdom of Solomon its very clear James, Paul, Jude, and even Peter make nods to it throughout their writings. It was definitely well known and people read it. It doesn't have to be scripture to be something edifying that the Apostles appealed to frequently. They knew their audience. Anyone with an updated Septuigint would probably be familiar with what we call the Apocrypha. And that was the standard Bible le of the 1st century. The new testament authors quote from the LXX something like 80 %of the time when quoting scriptures. My thought is that wisdom of Solomon may in fact be scripture since it does seem to prophesy about Jesus. I dont think Solomon wrote it. I dont think think it was meant to be read that way. It means the wisdom of the man of Peace. Jesus himself said a greater than Solomon is here(meaning himself). He literally said a Greater Solomon is here. Just my thoughts on it. Be well
I recently read the apocrypha was taken out of the Bible after calvinism. Then later read the USA didn’t print these books after the Revolution
I don’t mean to sound rude but the Catholic Church added them in so to take something out isn’t always wrong if it’s an evil thing doing it
You are correct. It wasn't until the Westminster Confession that these books were excluded from the bible. Even the KJV has a version that includes the apocrypha. Martin Luther never excluded them from the bible, but he separated them from the rest of the old testament books. In his translation of the German Bible he first dubbed the name "Apocrypha" and didn't consider them to be equal with scripture, but valuable for learning history and chrisitan manners. I am a protestant and just started researching this.
With all due respect to the USA, the church and Judaism go thousands of years before your country lol...
Jews didn't consider the Apocrypha as scripture even before Christ. And even many Catholics didn't, until the 16th century when the reformation forced them to take a position on the matter.
Why do elderly people say Enoch like Eunuch?! Geez
Because it isn’t convenient
the book of Enoch did not take from Jude
Jude's letter straight up name drops Enoch
Instead of a day with Daniel in the Lions den, it turns into 6.and instead of Enoch being seventh from Adam, In 2 Esdras 6 he's a creature mentioned that is separated fr the other creature Leviathan...but interestingly enough, AFTER THAT ADAM, THEN COME WE ALL. That's not scriptural at all. Thanks for the video
The Bible has number contradictions too. I will post some.
Scientific ?
Read Eph 6:13-17.
Now read Wisdom 5:17-20
Not exact, but amazing none the less. Thank you, brother.
Completely different description of the armour of God, this goes against the apocrypha
The Old testament is laid out as a prophecy of the New testament God sent Jesus to make a New covenant it's the New covenant at is the important message to get across in this day and age we're just looking more and more like end times. Just know that even if there are Old testament books that are lost call my everything leads to Jesus giving Salvation, the Holy Spirit upon us, and God's love for us. Believe that with all your heart. Jesus said he came to fulfill the OT Law. I focus on what we know to be confirmed in the Canon. If there were anything in the apocracy at that God wanted us to know, Jesus would have reinforced and taught it. Was so much stress in this day and age in the world and such upheaval, a little hyper vigilant and fearful, wondering if somewhere, someone stole truthful books out of the Bible from us. Let's face it we will never know.Pray about it but cling to The words of Christ that's the bottom line. I wont jumble my mind with the Apocrypha. The final point of the Bible won't change.
Book of Jude quotes from the book of Enoch
no
@@originalmix2546 yes!
And Paul quotes greek philosophers,
It's like when in a church service someone uses the Lord of the Rings to make a point
But it's too hard to get it huh?
Jerome Preface to Book of Solomon: “Therefore, just as the Church also reads the books of Judith, Tobias, and the Maccabees, but does not receive them among the the canonical Scriptures, so also one may read these two scrolls for the strengthening of the people, (but) not for confirming the authority of ecclesiastical dogmas.”
Catholics messed around with the bible
how do you feel aboutThe Septuagint?
He does not like it.
It is the translation Jesus and Paul quoted from and I think it is more authoritative than the later Jewish Masoretic texts (otherwise is Paul's translation of the OT worse than the later Masoretic text?), but even many many early church fathers point out that just because those books of the apocrypha are included in the translation, doesn't make them Divine Scripture.
Jesus quote the Apocrypha,
KJV Matthew 23:37
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Apocrypha 2 Esdras 1:30
30 I gathered you together, as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings: but now, what shall I do unto you? I will cast you out from my face.
33 Thus saith the Almighty Lord, Your house is desolate, I will cast you out as the wind doth stubble.
Check this, 400 years before Jesus
2 Esdras 7:28
28 For my son Jesus shall be revealed with those that be with him, and they that remain shall rejoice within four hundred years.
29 After these years shall my son Christ die, and all men that have life.
Amen!
Inaccurate information. The translation used in the KJV is from the Latin, and is most likely an interpolation. Other manuscripts says Messiah. Even then, Jerome, who translated it into Latin, did not count the 3rd and 4th Esdras as Scripture, neither did the KJV translators. You also do not know the history of 3rd & 4th Esdras; they weren't written 400 years before Christ, they were written after.
If you want to take the 400 years thing literal, go ahead and take the next few verses literally as well and try to interpret it.
Jesus doesn’t quote the Apocrypha
He quotes the Old testament consistently
If Jesus endorsed the Apocrypha, he informs us that the cross and faith is not the power of God into salvation
He endorses works which the Bible speaks about
He also endorses hierarchy in “the chosen”
Reject this doctrine as holy or you will be mislead
2 Esdras was written in 70 - 218 CE. AFTER Jesus walked the shores of Galilee. And If Esdras is canon, NO gospels quote from it. Matthew and Luke have hundreds of quote from the old testament to show how Jesus of Nazareth is the messiah. NOT ONE from a apocrypha book. NOT ONE!
🙏
They did quote from them but you can’t honestly say the didn’t because you honestly didn’t study them out 🤷♂️ it seems as my research and yours contradict each other.
These texts actually confirm the New Testament even more as valid scripture but everyone wants to look at they don’t one again another subjective view of scripture that will mislead many people from finding out the truth
Anyone reading my comment read for yourself compare compare compare
Precept upon precept line upon line
Did not Peter and Jude quote The Book of Enoch?
Hmmm jesus quotes from the apocrypha verbatim in Matthew 23:37-38
Jesus doing silly miracles? You threw me off from the get go
this guy is lost lol
Not believing in something that's not inspired doesn't make you lost the holy Ghost isn't back those books up most of them are fable even at the end of the apocryphal books they even admit that it's not true some from historical standpoint like The Maccabees have a historical standing remember the Jews wrote down everything even their histories they just didn't write inspired scripture so now he's not lost just because he doesn't believe in something that's not inspired
See you say there is only 2 enochs. When technically there are 3. See your already deceiving regardless of bible. Which is my foundation. But you clearly don't have any idea what your talking about
Are you wearing a hollywood mission impossible type mask ?
This was very poorly explained
Horrible answer.
That's actually a very good answer if Jesus and the apostles didnt quote from it
Ezra 2 has a sentence in it that Jesus quoted word for word. About the hen gathering her chicks. Ezra 2 was also in the KJV 1611. 😉 When I read Enoch, I see prophecy after prophecy fulfilled and yet to be fulfilled. Jasher is iffy and not sure about the others, but Ezra 2 is definitely and the proof is the hen gathering her chicks sentence
There is no religion on Earth that accepts the apocrypha accept Catholics
@@XGMC921 Thats false.
@@XGMC921 There are some extremist Black religious groups that accept the apocrypha. Every single person that I know they reads the apocrypha is vexed with multiple demons and live horrific lives.
@@benitaesq_ super interesting comment. why do you think that is so that they are stricken w demons from the apocrypha? I have been feeling urge to read them as well as a urge to avoid. I know they were in original 1611 KJV so I’m trying to understand it all
@@benitaesq_ It makes absolutely no sense if apostles and Jesus that quoted from the Apocrypha did not themselves suffer from "demons of the Apocrypha". This is as blasphemous as the Matthew 12:24, Pharisees who accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of demons. Repent and pray ye for the holy spirit for guidance.
Jesus did quote from the book of Enoch, twice
Could you please list those scriptures? Thank you
no He didnt
No proof presented. Not but blah blah blah.