Good video. The title was a little mis-leading to me. The actual worst thing any new tractor owner can do is loan it out and expect it come back in the same shape as it was before.
As those believe the title was misleading as the worst thing a new tractor owner could do is loan it out while expecting it to return in the same shape as before.
bingo, as a teenager my friend asked a older man if he could borrow his car. his reply " son 2 things I never loan my wife and my car because someone might throw a rod in both of them"
If a ROPS is being built to such a bare minimum that it structurally can't take a few 3/8" holes drilled in it, I don't want the damn thing on my tractor being described as a safety device. I realize that we live in a litigious society, but that just screams, "engineered to the lowest penny".
Industrial strength magnets can be bought for $10-$15 and can be used to mount lights and other accessories. This gives the benefit of moving the lights when the ROPS is folded. They are also helpful when the light gets caught on a tree branch as it will fall and hang by the wire instead of breaking.
Did the same. Also did clip in cabling so I could zip tie the body of the cable, and if a branch or something snags my lights or accessories, they just unclip and fall after the magnet is pulled off instead of breakout the cable. Just remount and plug back in.
I own a B3200. I couldn't get around with that rediculosly high factory ROPS. I was constantly getting myself in serious trouble making contact with large branches etc. and I couldn't drive into my garage. As a result I always had the thing in the down position leaving me no protection and wide open for a rollover accident. I also have a friend who has a B3200 and he too has raised his front end off the ground mowing unfarmilliar properties. He injured his shin badly on the clutch pedel when the tractor pushed through and the front end came crashing down. Because of that I decided some protection is better than none in the down position. I took the upper half of my ROPS to a profesional machinist and had him remove a good 6 inches. He did an amazing job and you can't tell it wasn't like that from the factory. Now my ROPS stays up all the time. I understand the purpose of of the extra height is rollover "prevention" and I have downgraded to rollover "protection" but I know what's best for my situation. While I do agree with most of what is said herein the video, I dont like to hear a video nanny people in such general terms without all the facts. Kubot builds a product for everyone and not situation specific. And unfortunately they need to play CYA too. Their oversized ROPS did not fit how and where I use my tractor and it was getting me in serious trouble. Again, with all due respect to the video, I would like to point out I no longer have a problem making contact and I am better protected with my rollbar up. So thanks Messicks guy, in general good advice, but I'll stick to my common sense.
Another good video. I bought a 2005 bx23 a few years ago. For some reason they made the roll bar about 7"-1" which is not good when you forget to fold it before going into a 7'-0" garage door. I cut 2" off at the hinge and re-drilled the holes. The only minor problem is if I have the ROPS down and swing the back hoe all the way left or right it bumps the ROPS. It does go into the garage much better.
And also a big Hat's off to Mr. Billy Works. This is a big gap in Tractor supply which you can tell by all the videos on RUclips of folks like me trying to find ways to mount work lights on the ROPS- U-Bolts, tie wraps, velcro, 2x4 studs etc. I just mounted mine last weekend and I used tie wraps because I didn't want to use u-bolts- they rust and scratch my tractor and also just plain look bad. Good call and I am definitely ordering them.
I bought some Billy Works several years ago and really like them. I did remove the pins though and replaced them with stainless bolts with nylock nuts. They would vibrate and slide down the rops otherwise. The pins also rust.
Well doing major remodeling to the rops could be an issue, 1/4 inch hole can't imagine would cause rops to collapse, but I'm not a factory or certify things of this nature. But let me run this by everyone, 4 years ago when I bought my new bx25 it showed up I put it in my garage for the night. At about 10pm I decide let me go out and admire my new toy, jumped in the seat was looking around at it and then put seat belt on. Well SIX hours later I forced myself out of the seat, the seatbelt would not open, no one at home to help, my phone on the bench across the garage, no way to get to anything to help me cut the seatbelt. Living in Florida I was drenched in sweat and I somehow used the rops to pull myself up and out of the seat as I was covered in sweat which helped. Not a happy evening trying to enjoy my new toy. But think if you were mowing along a lake and you tipped over and could not undo the belt and you drowned, not a good thing, so things do go bad. Had kubota people from the factory show up the next day with the dealer to obtain that seatbelt. Tractor has been great would never trade it, but I never use the belt.
I know this is an old comment but having a rops with no seat belt is as dangerous as having no rops. With No rops no Seatbelt you have the opportunity to push off/ jump off With no seat belt with a rops your likely to get hit by the rops. Note I'm not here to argue your opinion just ad a different view for anyone who may be green and reassembled your comment. Hope all is still well with your tractor
After 12 years with my ZD21, the only near-tipovers I've ever had have been CAUSED by the ROPS, either by hitting a branch or utility pole guy wire. I hate the damn thing.
Sooo if I cant drill a hole in a ROPS because it could weaken it.. I should never build my own ROPS for a tractor that never had one? (and one does not exist for at any price) I would much rather build/mod a ROPS than have no ROPS at all..
I write structural steel engineering software for a living. The key when drilling holes through structural members (whether they be steel roll bars or wooden floor joists) is to place the holes through the neutral axis (generally the center) of the member. When the member is stressed, one edge is under tension and the other is under compression. The center sees neither of these forces, and therefore won't compromise the strength of the member when you remove material. This is why castellated beams (I-beams with large voids cut out of the middle) are popular for saving weight without significantly reducing strength. While I'm sure that some tractor owners do make a mess of their ROPS (just like some plumbers & electricians goober up structural framing), Neil sounds a lot like Chicken Little when claiming that they have to replace any ROPS that has a single hole drilled through it. Yes, attaching accessories with U-bolts is perfectly safe, as long as you don't crimp the steel by over-tightening it. However, drilling into the ROPS can also be equally safe when done correctly.
Bill, there's nothing "chicken little" about it. Messicks selling a machine with a modified ROPS, is also giving the new owner a signed blank check if that machine rolls over. My guess is his insurance would probably not approve of him selling a machine that way, and his lawyer certainly wouldn't. The legal system doesn't buy "a couple 1/4" holes aren't going to do anything" In order for a dealer to cover themselves liability wise, they would have to take the machine with the modified ROPS, Duplicate the exact setup, send them to an independent lab, and for an obscene amount of money, they would roll them over a few times and document the results. Then he could manufacture a ROPS in exactly the same way the first one was modified, and put it on another machine and sell it to the customer. Sounds like the hard way. Or he could just replace the ROPS with a documentable new one, and be done with it.
Ben Hollingsworth really I think neil and messicks are erroring on the side of caution. Granted I've never personally delt with them. But from watching their videos they throw it all out with honesty. It's sad to think one lawsuit could wipe out their whole business which I believe is family owned and has numerous locations not to mention the fact they ship parts world wide. So basically they have millions riding on a few hundred dollar peice of equipment. Now common sense which we all know is lacking today, would say really would a 1/4 size hole result in failure probably not. But I'll refer you to the famous McDonald's coffee lawsuit. All messicks is doing is saving their own ass so they can stay in business to continue serving their customer's
They could certainly beat the case if a used tractor purchaser comes back after them later assuming they inspected it and found the strength wasn't affected. Problem is it would probably take a PE to do the inspection. Some tech's opinion will not suffice in court. Even then the legal fees to beat the case would cost more than just replacing the ROPS.
What Kubota needs to do and haven't on the 80 series is to factory drill holes on the underside of the rops at the top. Most tractors have front end loaders which renders the headlights useless. I think most folks want to install a front facing light bar at the top of the rops and it would be nice to have factory holes or even threaded inserts to mount them. Maybe even a little more room at the gusseted area where the rops bolts to the tractor for wiring.
Great video, I would never have thought about it and probably would have screwed or bolted something through the roll bar. Those mounts are a great item to put on my purchase list. A couple of work lights would be great for those times where you just don't get done before dark.
Wait, I just saw Kubota drill some holes in the rops and that is ok, those holes didn't look anything special, but if we drilled the same hole the rops would not hold up, ok I get it. Yea brackets are ok but I don't care to put u bolts and scratch up the whole rops where it looks like hell and rusts later.
Messick Farm Equipment and I'd think even then a shady lawyer could put enough doubt in that engineering to win a case sad we live in such a it's your fault world pay me money
rvkubotaman if kubota puts the holes in, kubota is liable in the event rops fails. If you put the holes in, trade it in, new owner rolls it & rops fails, dealer is liable. See the difference there ?
When I got mine in 2002 I looked at it and thought, drilling holes in the safety equipment sounds like a bad idea, so how do I mount lights? A trip to the box store with a light in hand and $20 later I had my answer. Rubber insulation tape, the kind that sticks to itself when waterproofing underground cable and some large hose clamps. Been on it ever since. When the day comes to remove them, unscrew the clamps, remove the rubber tape and a little polish to remove the line of dirt that ore than likely will be there and would not even know there were lights on it.
That is one thing I took into consideration when I purchased my first tractor, and took into consideration when buying my second one also. I have not made any changes to my tractor's ROPS, and won't except tor maybe adding hardware which won't harm the tractor in case of a possible rollover.
IMHO People are overwhelmingly missing the point. It is strictly a LIABILITY issue. The ROPS can have holes and welds and whatever else the OEM deems they want on there. The reason they can do that and you cannot (and still have it be resalable by a (reputable) dealer), is that whatever holes and welds the OEM made were part of the assembly that was TESTED. Whatever you do to that machine in your shed is not TESTED and will not hold up in court. What I interpret Neil's point to be, is that his business is never going to take the risk of selling a piece of safety equipment that someone modified (in their shed or anywhere else) as it is cheaper for him to put a new ROPS on then it is to pay lawyers to defend that the modifications that you made did not cause the piece of equipment to fail. That is a very expensive proposition, as it is nearly impossible to prove that in court. So now he has to pay lawyers a bankrupt-able amount of money ON TOP of the settlement he has to pay because he lost in court. This has nothing to do with Messick's thinking the 2 1/4" holes are a structural problem... it is a legal problem.
I don't think it matters how you explain it, this is the internet, and people hear what they choose to hear, and the logic and facts have nothing to do with the conversation.
Very well put. Unless a professional engineer or corporation with an engineering department overseen by a chief engineer does engineering analysis the dealer can be liable. Understand Kubota could still be sued if it could be proved their factory installed holes were not engineered correctly. In that case though, dealers like Messicks would be off the hook as they operated in good faith.
I totally get the issues, When Billstmaxx was going to drill holes in the safety frame of the green branded contraption he digs holes with in the cemetery. Quite a few of us pointed out the liability issue "when" something goes wrong and somebody is injured or killed, He made clamps after that. There are quite a few guys in England/ Europe restoring classic tractors where the safety cab structure is rotten to. It's the same issue if there is ever a problem. The minute they cut out steel and weld in new that whole cab structure is scrap and should be condemned as unsafe for purpose. The HSE over there has been making farmers stop using the tractors where safety structures are rotten if they see them during inspections.
Inspections? Tractors? Say what. Not in the USA. Dealerships may have to avoid modified stuff, but we have "right to repair" and other conversations going on and to my knowledge you can drive however unsafe a tractor you can make it lol We call it "Freedom from tyranny." ;)
I bought an L3301 four years ago. I had to take pins out of the middle of the roll bar and fold it down to get under something. I put the roll bar back up and one pin went back in one hole but the other holes are not lined up quite perfectly and the pin wont go in. No amount of wiggling the bar or hammering on the pin will make it go in. What now? Of course it is out of warranty.
Cool. I thought there would be attachments like that. I would trust bolts then pins. I'm about to get a Kubota and looking at all the mods and parts before i bought. Best Mowers on the market. Hello Baja and Rigid Industry Lights.
Yes the roll bar is there too save your life . With out a seatbelt on though it’s not much use . You can get thrown under bar with no seat belt . Clamps are the only way too go. Tube will always give or rip apart at weakest point being hole or Weld on point Best thing too do is never get in a situation where tractor can roll over . There is always a safer way of doing things .
My salesman tried to tell me that I no longer have a new tractor warranty because of 2 holes I drilled for my new lights. If I ever trade it I will be keeping RB and lights and pay the $150 to replace. Problem solved. I went over his head and to the owner of dealership, and he gave me a 5 year warranty and fixed any issue I had without any question. That's customer service. Tractor purchased in 2014 only have 3 year, but I got a 5 year. Going in this spring after snow goes for some warranty work and everything is all covered(4yo with 450h). Backhoe complete valve bank failure.(at 150 hours of use) And attachments are only 1 year warranty. There is some issue that is wrong. No way I should be having any valve bank issue at 150hours. Complete valve bank replacement. Getting off topic sorry. Just showing what a good dealer I have. There was a lady that sued MC D's for spilling coffee on HERSELF. So if some dope bought a tractor with drilled holes and rolled it and it collapses, not because of the 30 foot drop, You folks would never sue......... yes and I have statue of liberty for sale if anyone wants it.. Like I said, my tractor I'll do what I want, when I sell or trade I'll replace the RB and any other safety item. Just to protect myself from idiots that spill coffee on themselves. Did I mention that the dealer put my seatbelt on WRONG .lol Across my stomach, not legs like it should be. Very good video, nicely done as you always seem to do a good job. Always informative. I see a lot of people leaving the RB down for whatever reason. Will not fit in garage will not go under trees, WILL NOT protect you if it's folded down and you roll over!!!. (i'm telling your wife)
Too bad I do not live near Messick's. I unable to get my local authorized Kubota dealer to: return an email, calls, or even give me a quote for a new machine. Enjoy the information you provide.
You actually shortened it? Are you stupid? So now if the tractor rolls over, there won't be enough space to save you from being crushed to death. Congratulations, you will be receiving a Darwin Award in the near future. SMH
The rops on our 2012 B2620 already has a hole in it from the factory at the top center. Wondering why this is. I knew the owner of this tractor since new and he did not drill the hole in it. Is it possible it could of been for a wire to routed thru from the bottom for a light (s) later on? Thanks
Wow....1 minute in and I am guilty of everything he said. Lights on the top..yep. Toolbox (ammo box) on the side....yep. I did avoid drilling or welding and used zip ties and magnet for the lights and a half square bracket (wrapped in garden hose) to attach the ammo box.
so they can drill holes in the bar but you cant? 🤣(sorry that's funny to me).... but i used magnets to mount my lights. im now looking for a canopy and it seems Kubota uses a ton of different ones. i have even seen a john deere part number for a L2501 canopy... i never drill in rops my self, but it seems hard to find a good lookin canopy.
My Kubota dealer sold me my used tractor with the ROPS folded and i didn't think anything of it but it's missing the pins. Well i figured that out when it kept flopping around and there were no pins. So they want $200 for a set of the pins. Needles to say I've yet to pay for them.
@@MessicksEquip Thanks for the info. Just as FYI, I added a link to your video to my blog (www.familyprojectsblog.com/was-drilling-holes-in-the-rops-of-my-kubota-bx2380-tractor-to-install-and-led-light-bar-a-mistake/) about my experience. Hope your okay with that. if not let me know.
U bolts are fine as long as some ham fisted person only lightly tightens them, if done up tight they will partially crush the tube and that weakens it more than a couple of small holes. So u bolts are NOT a way to avoid litigation.
Worst mistake is not having the ROPS upright and in place. I knew a dumbass who got squished when he was mowing a steep hill on his yard, of course the roll bar wasnt up and he was dead instantly. SMH 🤦♂️ Edit: what was even worse was his wife was hollering at him to put the roll bar up not 5 minutes before he killed himself
True, but your application is different then most people who buy a tractor for the first time. Just like when someone buy a subcompact is for 1 of a few reasons either they want an alternative to a zero turn, don't have a lot of acreage, or need to get into tight spaces where 30 and 40hp tractors won't fit.
A couple years ago a guy in my town got crushed to death by his own Kubota because he left the ROPS folded down and didn't use his seatbelt. That inspired me to retrofit my 9N with a ROPS and seatbelt.
Dave M no, the guy got crushed because he didn't use his head. Rolling something, be it a piece of equipment, a truck, an atv, whatever is 99.99% of the time the operators fault and completely avoidable.
You and I weren't there so we don't know but I do know that not using available safety equipment when it's there is a recipe for disaster. None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes so a ROPS is there for those days when you don't use your head, even for a split second.
Lets test it out. Go roll a tractor over and then drill some holes in the roll and roll it again. Because i don;t believe it. In fact my kubota open cab has holes drilled in it in several places and i caught a big tree branch and it lifted the whole tractor up and nothing happened except my heart getting ready to stop.Sounds like someone traded in one he modified and you made a video after arguing him about trade in value. Hate for you to see my old Ford that is jury-rigged all over. We farmers do that sorta thing. Besides..........best roll over protection you can have is 2 good feet to jump with.
don't disagree with you one bit. As was stated in the video, the concern is liability. When one injury related lawsuit is enough to wipe out your life's work and take everything from your family would you run the risk? I personally am not willing to toss that up to 'I hope so \ I think so'.
Well just keep making videos because we like them. Disagreements will happen.I watched a video a few weeks ago where a guy bought a new small kubota and cut the rops off with a sawzall.
Where I live in Spain I need my tractor to pass a technical test periodically in order to drive it on the road. I have added a light and moved the registration plate onto my ROPS. I didn't think about compliance and may now have problems with the authorities, even though I only used 6mm (1/4") holes, drilled and tapped
Any ACTUAL case law, settlements etc from someone modifying a ROPs with a tab weld or small hole and getting sued for the next owners injury or death? Also is there any actual proof these dealerships take off the old ROPs with an unauthorized hole in it to replace with a new unmodified one? I can see a dealership SAYING thats what they are going to do to drive the trade price down . Any piles of scrap ROPS at any dealerships in the USA? Got any pics or docs of that? Sounds like a bunch of BS without some actual supporting cases/docs/pics
Simple answer, if you are going to trade your tractor into any dealership (BAD IDEA anyhow), simply remove roll-bar when new and store it in the back of your shop. When you are ready to trade tractor in, re-install the roll-bar. Ok, so that's not a great idea, I know, I know... But, like it or not, it happens all the time. What's worse is that most people don't ever put them back on. Even worse yet, they torch or sawzall the ROPS off, because they are too difficult to remove or were made to be an integral part of holding fenders and other things onto the tractor when it was designed by the manufacturer. Saying you can't weld or drill into a ROPS is total bullshit. The problem is, it greatly depends where and how the modification is done. Some modifications are safe, and some are not. Because most people have no grasp of physics and engineering, they should not do the mods themselves. An experienced welder or repair shop should be able to do the modification to a safe specification. Again, problem is, nobody wants the liability, so often times it is up to the owner to make the modification themselves, leading to a dangerous situation/modification. I personally will do such mods for others as long as they sign a disclosure waiver of any and all liability on my part, in which I and they each get a copy of said signed form. Just good common sense, called "covering thy ass". ***Any open-station tractor with a non-folding ROPS is totally assenine, as it is totally impractical in a vast majority of use applications.*** I'm against the making of too many laws, however, there really needs to be a law that prohibits ANY open-station tractor from having a solid, non-folding roll-bar installed. This simple legislation alone would solve 2/3rds of the problems with people modifying/removing/destroying the ROPS that are on their tractors, because there would no longer be the need to do so. Unfortunately, every application of where a tractor will be used may be different. What works for one owner/operator will often not work for another. ROPS along with SEATBELTS certainly have their safety benefits, but also many operational drawbacks that are unacceptable in many circumstances. Nothing will ever replace good 'ol common sense when operating any tractor.
A waiver will not protect you if the person suing can show you failed to warn them off all instances of how this could fail or if they could show you acted "negligently". In other words if you didn't take the modification and run some Ansys analysis or at least static engineering calculations and their ROPS fails your waiver will mean nothing in court. Feel free to continue just may want to Google what liability a waiver can actually wave.
Playing the devils advocate: So you are telling us that if you take in a tractor and you adjust the trade in because of issues with the ROPS, then you are going to install a new ROPS before you resell the tractor? Maybe you will, but does Kubota have a policy to make sure ALL dealers tow the line or will someone get dinged on the trade in and the next buyer get screwed in buying an unsafe Rops and then gets screwed again if he trades it in? How do I know which one is authorized to have holes in it and which ones aren't. Do ALL kubota sales people know this too. Where can we get this information before we go to tractor shop? In following the 'Kubota tractors and equipment forum on Facebook, you know some dealers shouldn't be dealers'. Kubota has muddied the water by having predrilled holes in some ROPS and not others. I think they would be better to create specs and possible templates as to where and what size hole could be drilled and the type of fastener required. see Ben Hollingsworths post below.
what would Messick's do if I wanted to trade in my NH TC33DA which has Two ~ 3/8 " Holes through each both faces of each side of the R.O.P.s ? Hold that statement and rethink. You can't hold it against Me. I didn't drill them. NH Did!
If there are there from the factory its no issue. They were part of the certified and engineered structure. The problem comes in when you start drilling holes in something with ROPS\FOPS certifications from OSHA.
Removed mine entirely best decision I ever made 800 hours later still can't believe I didn't do it sooner. If you're somebody who doesn't wear their seatbelt which is probably about 99.9% of us the ROPS doesn't do you any good.
A ROPS without a seat belt is still better than no ROPS at all: rops.ca.uky.edu/content/important-information-about-rops There are two reasons why a ROPS without seat belt is better than no ROPS at all. First, as mentioned previously, in a rear overturn, tractors with ROPS will usually rotate about 90 degrees and stop with the nose up in the air. The operator would most likely still be in the seat even without fastening the seat belt. Without a ROPS, the tractor will go all the way over and crush the operator. If a tractor with ROPS does roll all the way over in a rear overturn, the tractor will not land flat on top of you. Second, many side overturns are slow enough that the tractor only rotates about 90 degrees and ends up on its side. While it is still possible for the operator to fall from the zone of protection and land beneath the tractor or the ROPS, it is also quite possible to stay in the seat or operator’s station and not be injured, or suffer only minor injuries. Of course, wearing the seat belt is the safest thing to do.
hit a sinkhole that opens up and you'll never have a chance. groundhog holes also sneak up out of weeds, or soft spots if a spring is in the ground or ... a thousand other possibilities for an "accident"
it only happens 2 their vids.. i'll have 2 try lowering the quality. im wired 2 my router, becuz the wireless reader is messed up.. thanks 4 the tip. :)
so this was an ad for billy worx brackets as the manufacturers drill holes to put the information plate rivets on and then suddenly and magically make replacement rops with factory holes.
If two drillholes affect the stability of a ROPS so much, maybe you have to think about the whole concept of that wiggly thing. It‘s like a car-seller says to me don‘t wash the car, otherwise the paint goes off...
I mean i get it from the liability standpoint, but isnt on a lot of roll bars there existing welds for the pin brackets. The fact that it is a folding roll bar kind of negates any argument against this practice as there is many holes in it from just how it is assembled as well as many welds depending on manufacturer. From Messicks standpoint i would say yes, cover your butt against lawsuits by covering your bases. But for someone buying a used tractor this issue is not a real concern for safety. And if you are putting a light bracket on your tractor then its at your own risk. I have grown up on tractors with no roll bar and no seatbelts. and the common practice is if you dont use roll bar dont use your seat belt so you can get out of the seat and not be trapped. I get the resale issue to a dealer as well. But all said and done, a few 1/4 inch holes are not a real threat, some small tack welds are not a real threat. Big holes, or big welds yes it can be an issue of safety , but look at a UTV, there are often times all kinds of holes through out the roll cage to mount accessories. This isnt an issue to me, because i hardly use my roll bar as it is. Few exceptions is on the road or while on a hill. other than that flat ground moving manure and cleaning stalls no i dont use it. And i wouldnt think twice about adding anything to them either.
I get it, but the fact that holes can exist in a roll frame, discounts that holes are inherently unsafe. Regardless of if they were engineered to be there or not. Same as the welds, the fact that they are often welded on from factory discounts that a welded frame is inherently unsafe. I also want to point out the fact that welds and holes are easily welded or ground off and painted over to hide the modification. \
You know logic goes out the window when it comes to liability in a court room right? your not wrong, but if you put a drill to a piece of safety equipment and it failed in any way what do you think is going to happen...?
oh i totally get it, i work in crop insurance. It is always best to cover all your bases. I carry a million dollar liability as we have horses. Do they get out and get hit by a car , no. Is it possible, yes. and if one thing is true in this world is that if something can happen it will. And as a dealer i would follow your stance as well. There is no way of telling whether it is safe as configured as it sits. And why would you take on the risk when it is easier and safer to count the expense in a trade deal and be covered. I for one hate permanent mods anyways as you cant revert back to original configuration
I get that it's a liability issue, but if you plan on keeping it do whatever you want to it as long as you know what you're doing. This guy is just a salesman with clean clothes you can tell he never worked a day in his life and only knows what the paperwork says. If you drill into the web of the rops beam or weld you are fine. On heavy duty lowboys holding 50 tons and up, they actually stamp the web out and slide a through beam across and weld one side solid. The other side on most if not all lowboys has 70-80% of the web missing because all the stress is on the flange. Those rops bars are pretty thick steel and these tractors weigh nothing. Plus it's not holding the entire weight of the machine it's only stopping it from rolling again after it tips. And besides, like other people said unless you wear a seat belt which I never knew a single person who did, it wont help. It may make things even worse.
I have a L3901 and the rops isn't even fully welded (designed that way !!?) Any way, I also have a 1961 john deere that: "doesn't need no stinkin' rops".
I disagree. If you are competent with a welder feel free to convert your ROPS into a 8 point roll cage. It's your tractor, and just because an engineer designed something to an industry standard doesn't mean it can't be improved. You can drill into your ROPS if you weld on proper reinforcement, but again you have to know what you're doing. If you do modify your ROPS you will probably only get one chance to find out if your modification was structurally sound. Hopefully you'll never have to find out.
Oh, Yeah, I forgot to mention, I've been driving tractors for the last 62 years and never have nor ever will where a seat belt. If it starts to roll, I'll be on the ground on the opposite side before the R.O.P.s hits the ground.
I had the same attitude until recently and I lost a family friend to a O/S tractor rolling. The fact is they turn so quick often times a person doesn't have time to react. A seat being used in this situation would have saved a life.
Exactly. Most people think they can jump clear and to only find out that they can't clear because they slipped, got caught up on something, or other and then got pinned. They roll quick.
A very dangerous idea. Of course there are scenarios where you have time - but when you don't have time you can get yourself killed. Here in Sweden we've had legislation demanding ROPS since 1959 on tractors. These ROPS where often fitted with glass and sheet metal to form rudimentary cabs. And on all of them there sticker/plates advising the driver to hold tight onto the steering wheel if the tractor was overturning or rolling. This was before even cars had (mandated) seat belts. And I can say that it has saved many farmers' lives by following that directive and not do I-know-best-approach.
Good video. The title was a little mis-leading to me. The actual worst thing any new tractor owner can do is loan it out and expect it come back in the same shape as it was before.
As those believe the title was misleading as the worst thing a new tractor owner could do is loan it out while expecting it to return in the same shape as before.
bingo, as a teenager my friend asked a older man if he could borrow his car. his reply " son 2 things I never loan my wife and my car because someone might throw a rod in both of them"
I thought the worst thing a new tractor owner could do is drain the oil and not put new oil back in.
If somebody needs a tractor but doesn't want to own one. Rent one.
Ha!
If a ROPS is being built to such a bare minimum that it structurally can't take a few 3/8" holes drilled in it, I don't want the damn thing on my tractor being described as a safety device. I realize that we live in a litigious society, but that just screams, "engineered to the lowest penny".
Agree 100% I'm drilling holes and using a nut rivet to install my lights.
Well said sir , well said
Industrial strength magnets can be bought for $10-$15 and can be used to mount lights and other accessories. This gives the benefit of moving the lights when the ROPS is folded. They are also helpful when the light gets caught on a tree branch as it will fall and hang by the wire instead of breaking.
I actually use magnets from old hard drives that I disassemble. Those things can be really strong and useful for many things!
Exactly what i did. You can get mounts with the neodymium (rare earth metal) magnets and never have to bolt led lights on your rops
Did the same. Also did clip in cabling so I could zip tie the body of the cable, and if a branch or something snags my lights or accessories, they just unclip and fall after the magnet is pulled off instead of breakout the cable. Just remount and plug back in.
I own a B3200. I couldn't get around with that rediculosly high factory ROPS. I was constantly getting myself in serious trouble making contact with large branches etc. and I couldn't drive into my garage. As a result I always had the thing in the down position leaving me no protection and wide open for a rollover accident. I also have a friend who has a B3200 and he too has raised his front end off the ground mowing unfarmilliar properties. He injured his shin badly on the clutch pedel when the tractor pushed through and the front end came crashing down. Because of that I decided some protection is better than none in the down position. I took the upper half of my ROPS to a profesional machinist and had him remove a good 6 inches. He did an amazing job and you can't tell it wasn't like that from the factory. Now my ROPS stays up all the time.
I understand the purpose of of the extra height is rollover "prevention" and I have downgraded to rollover "protection" but I know what's best for my situation. While I do agree with most of what is said herein the video, I dont like to hear a video nanny people in such general terms without all the facts. Kubot builds a product for everyone and not situation specific. And unfortunately they need to play CYA too. Their oversized ROPS did not fit how and where I use my tractor and it was getting me in serious trouble. Again, with all due respect to the video, I would like to point out I no longer have a problem making contact and I am better protected with my rollbar up. So thanks Messicks guy, in general good advice, but I'll stick to my common sense.
Another good video. I bought a 2005 bx23 a few years ago. For some reason they made the roll bar about 7"-1" which is not good when you forget to fold it before going into a 7'-0" garage door. I cut 2" off at the hinge and re-drilled the holes. The only minor problem is if I have the ROPS down and swing the back hoe all the way left or right it bumps the ROPS. It does go into the garage much better.
And also a big Hat's off to Mr. Billy Works. This is a big gap in Tractor supply which you can tell by all the videos on RUclips of folks like me trying to find ways to mount work lights on the ROPS- U-Bolts, tie wraps, velcro, 2x4 studs etc. I just mounted mine last weekend and I used tie wraps because I didn't want to use u-bolts- they rust and scratch my tractor and also just plain look bad. Good call and I am definitely ordering them.
I bought some Billy Works several years ago and really like them. I did remove the pins though and replaced them with stainless bolts with nylock nuts. They would vibrate and slide down the rops otherwise. The pins also rust.
Well doing major remodeling to the rops could be an issue, 1/4 inch hole can't imagine would cause rops to collapse, but I'm not a factory or certify things of this nature. But let me run this by everyone, 4 years ago when I bought my new bx25 it showed up I put it in my garage for the night. At about 10pm I decide let me go out and admire my new toy, jumped in the seat was looking around at it and then put seat belt on. Well SIX hours later I forced myself out of the seat, the seatbelt would not open, no one at home to help, my phone on the bench across the garage, no way to get to anything to help me cut the seatbelt. Living in Florida I was drenched in sweat and I somehow used the rops to pull myself up and out of the seat as I was covered in sweat which helped. Not a happy evening trying to enjoy my new toy. But think if you were mowing along a lake and you tipped over and could not undo the belt and you drowned, not a good thing, so things do go bad. Had kubota people from the factory show up the next day with the dealer to obtain that seatbelt. Tractor has been great would never trade it, but I never use the belt.
I know this is an old comment but having a rops with no seat belt is as dangerous as having no rops.
With No rops no Seatbelt you have the opportunity to push off/ jump off
With no seat belt with a rops your likely to get hit by the rops.
Note I'm not here to argue your opinion just ad a different view for anyone who may be green and reassembled your comment. Hope all is still well with your tractor
Maybe Kubota should think about ROPS accessories and include plates/brackets that incorporate anchor points.....
After 12 years with my ZD21, the only near-tipovers I've ever had have been CAUSED by the ROPS, either by hitting a branch or utility pole guy wire. I hate the damn thing.
Mine is sitting in the barn, collecting dust.
Nonsense.
@@oldcountryman2795 clarification?
Sooo if I cant drill a hole in a ROPS because it could weaken it.. I should never build my own ROPS for a tractor that never had one? (and one does not exist for at any price)
I would much rather build/mod a ROPS than have no ROPS at all..
I write structural steel engineering software for a living. The key when drilling holes through structural members (whether they be steel roll bars or wooden floor joists) is to place the holes through the neutral axis (generally the center) of the member. When the member is stressed, one edge is under tension and the other is under compression. The center sees neither of these forces, and therefore won't compromise the strength of the member when you remove material. This is why castellated beams (I-beams with large voids cut out of the middle) are popular for saving weight without significantly reducing strength.
While I'm sure that some tractor owners do make a mess of their ROPS (just like some plumbers & electricians goober up structural framing), Neil sounds a lot like Chicken Little when claiming that they have to replace any ROPS that has a single hole drilled through it.
Yes, attaching accessories with U-bolts is perfectly safe, as long as you don't crimp the steel by over-tightening it. However, drilling into the ROPS can also be equally safe when done correctly.
its not a structural concern, it's a liability issue.
Bill, there's nothing "chicken little" about it. Messicks selling a machine with a modified ROPS, is also giving the new owner a signed blank check if that machine rolls over. My guess is his insurance would probably not approve of him selling a machine that way, and his lawyer certainly wouldn't. The legal system doesn't buy "a couple 1/4" holes aren't going to do anything" In order for a dealer to cover themselves liability wise, they would have to take the machine with the modified ROPS, Duplicate the exact setup, send them to an independent lab, and for an obscene amount of money, they would roll them over a few times and document the results. Then he could manufacture a ROPS in exactly the same way the first one was modified, and put it on another machine and sell it to the customer. Sounds like the hard way. Or he could just replace the ROPS with a documentable new one, and be done with it.
Ben Hollingsworth really I think neil and messicks are erroring on the side of caution. Granted I've never personally delt with them. But from watching their videos they throw it all out with honesty. It's sad to think one lawsuit could wipe out their whole business which I believe is family owned and has numerous locations not to mention the fact they ship parts world wide. So basically they have millions riding on a few hundred dollar peice of equipment. Now common sense which we all know is lacking today, would say really would a 1/4 size hole result in failure probably not. But I'll refer you to the famous McDonald's coffee lawsuit. All messicks is doing is saving their own ass so they can stay in business to continue serving their customer's
Ben Hollingsworth ---- sir; you forgot to account for the increased shear stress due to the loss of cross sectional area.
They could certainly beat the case if a used tractor purchaser comes back after them later assuming they inspected it and found the strength wasn't affected. Problem is it would probably take a PE to do the inspection. Some tech's opinion will not suffice in court. Even then the legal fees to beat the case would cost more than just replacing the ROPS.
What Kubota needs to do and haven't on the 80 series is to factory drill holes on the underside of the rops at the top. Most tractors have front end loaders which renders the headlights useless. I think most folks want to install a front facing light bar at the top of the rops and it would be nice to have factory holes or even threaded inserts to mount them. Maybe even a little more room at the gusseted area where the rops bolts to the tractor for wiring.
Great video, I would never have thought about it and probably would have screwed or bolted something through the roll bar. Those mounts are a great item to put on my purchase list. A couple of work lights would be great for those times where you just don't get done before dark.
Good video. Nice light brackets. Thanks.
Are rollbars required? I see tractors without them but generally they are older tractors.
Wait, I just saw Kubota drill some holes in the rops and that is ok, those holes didn't look anything special, but if we drilled the same hole the rops would not hold up, ok I get it. Yea brackets are ok but I don't care to put u bolts and scratch up the whole rops where it looks like hell and rusts later.
the holes Kubota puts in the roll bar are tested and certified.
Messick Farm Equipment and I'd think even then a shady lawyer could put enough doubt in that engineering to win a case sad we live in such a it's your fault world pay me money
rvkubotaman if kubota puts the holes in, kubota is liable in the event rops fails. If you put the holes in, trade it in, new owner rolls it & rops fails, dealer is liable. See the difference there ?
When I got mine in 2002 I looked at it and thought, drilling holes in the safety equipment sounds like a bad idea, so how do I mount lights? A trip to the box store with a light in hand and $20 later I had my answer. Rubber insulation tape, the kind that sticks to itself when waterproofing underground cable and some large hose clamps. Been on it ever since. When the day comes to remove them, unscrew the clamps, remove the rubber tape and a little polish to remove the line of dirt that ore than likely will be there and would not even know there were lights on it.
3M VHB tape will work too... if you're lucky. I find it's hit or miss, but if it sticks, it's as strong as a weld. Worth trying for the $
That is one thing I took into consideration when I purchased my first tractor, and took into consideration when buying my second one also. I have not made any changes to my tractor's ROPS, and won't except tor maybe adding hardware which won't harm the tractor in case of a possible rollover.
Sidney Mathious 4
I had to attach things to roll bars and roll cages. I used a strong adhesive.
IMHO People are overwhelmingly missing the point. It is strictly a LIABILITY issue. The ROPS can have holes and welds and whatever else the OEM deems they want on there. The reason they can do that and you cannot (and still have it be resalable by a (reputable) dealer), is that whatever holes and welds the OEM made were part of the assembly that was TESTED. Whatever you do to that machine in your shed is not TESTED and will not hold up in court. What I interpret Neil's point to be, is that his business is never going to take the risk of selling a piece of safety equipment that someone modified (in their shed or anywhere else) as it is cheaper for him to put a new ROPS on then it is to pay lawyers to defend that the modifications that you made did not cause the piece of equipment to fail. That is a very expensive proposition, as it is nearly impossible to prove that in court. So now he has to pay lawyers a bankrupt-able amount of money ON TOP of the settlement he has to pay because he lost in court. This has nothing to do with Messick's thinking the 2 1/4" holes are a structural problem... it is a legal problem.
+Craig Cosgrove nailed it. Would have explained it differently had I known so many people would miss the point.
I don't think it matters how you explain it, this is the internet, and people hear what they choose to hear, and the logic and facts have nothing to do with the conversation.
Very well put. Unless a professional engineer or corporation with an engineering department overseen by a chief engineer does engineering analysis the dealer can be liable. Understand Kubota could still be sued if it could be proved their factory installed holes were not engineered correctly. In that case though, dealers like Messicks would be off the hook as they operated in good faith.
Looking for a roll bar for my 1976 Masey Ferguson 235. Any ideas?
I totally get the issues, When Billstmaxx was going to drill holes in the safety frame of the green branded contraption he digs holes with in the cemetery. Quite a few of us pointed out the liability issue "when" something goes wrong and somebody is injured or killed, He made clamps after that. There are quite a few guys in England/ Europe restoring classic tractors where the safety cab structure is rotten to. It's the same issue if there is ever a problem. The minute they cut out steel and weld in new that whole cab structure is scrap and should be condemned as unsafe for purpose. The HSE over there has been making farmers stop using the tractors where safety structures are rotten if they see them during inspections.
Inspections? Tractors? Say what. Not in the USA. Dealerships may have to avoid modified stuff, but we have "right to repair" and other conversations going on and to my knowledge you can drive however unsafe a tractor you can make it lol We call it "Freedom from tyranny." ;)
I bought an L3301 four years ago. I had to take pins out of the middle of the roll bar and fold it down to get under something. I put the roll bar back up and one pin went back in one hole but the other holes are not lined up quite perfectly and the pin wont go in. No amount of wiggling the bar or hammering on the pin will make it go in. What now? Of course it is out of warranty.
Cool. I thought there would be attachments like that. I would trust bolts then pins. I'm about to get a Kubota and looking at all the mods and parts before i bought. Best Mowers on the market. Hello Baja and Rigid Industry Lights.
Yes the roll bar is there too save your life . With out a seatbelt on though it’s not much use . You can get thrown under bar with no seat belt . Clamps are the only way too go. Tube will always give or rip apart at weakest point being hole or Weld on point Best thing too do is never get in a situation where tractor can roll over . There is always a safer way of doing things .
What about replacing a bx1870 folding rops with a slightly shorter solid bx1860 rops?
My salesman tried to tell me that I no longer have a new tractor warranty because of 2 holes I drilled for my new lights. If I ever trade it I will be keeping RB and lights and pay the $150 to replace. Problem solved. I went over his head and to the owner of dealership, and he gave me a 5 year warranty and fixed any issue I had without any question. That's customer service. Tractor purchased in 2014 only have 3 year, but I got a 5 year. Going in this spring after snow goes for some warranty work and everything is all covered(4yo with 450h). Backhoe complete valve bank failure.(at 150 hours of use) And attachments are only 1 year warranty. There is some issue that is wrong. No way I should be having any valve bank issue at 150hours. Complete valve bank replacement. Getting off topic sorry. Just showing what a good dealer I have.
There was a lady that sued MC D's for spilling coffee on HERSELF. So if some dope bought a tractor with drilled holes and rolled it and it collapses, not because of the 30 foot drop, You folks would never sue......... yes and I have statue of liberty for sale if anyone wants it..
Like I said, my tractor I'll do what I want, when I sell or trade I'll replace the RB and any other safety item. Just to protect myself from idiots that spill coffee on themselves.
Did I mention that the dealer put my seatbelt on WRONG .lol Across my stomach, not legs like it should be.
Very good video, nicely done as you always seem to do a good job. Always informative.
I see a lot of people leaving the RB down for whatever reason. Will not fit in garage will not go under trees, WILL NOT protect you if it's folded down and you roll over!!!. (i'm telling your wife)
Too bad I do not live near Messick's. I unable to get my local authorized Kubota dealer to: return an email, calls, or even give me a quote for a new machine. Enjoy the information you provide.
oops mine didnt fold i cut and shortened it and welded it back together so i can get it in the garage.
You actually shortened it? Are you stupid? So now if the tractor rolls over, there won't be enough space to save you from being crushed to death. Congratulations, you will be receiving a Darwin Award in the near future. SMH
The rops on our 2012 B2620 already has a hole in it from the factory at the top center. Wondering why this is. I knew the owner of this tractor since new and he did not drill the hole in it. Is it possible it could of been for a wire to routed thru from the bottom for a light (s) later on? Thanks
Yea, the factory frequently has engineered holes
Keep the roll bar up... ALWAYS. I *knew* a guy who didn't believe that was necessary.
Wow....1 minute in and I am guilty of everything he said. Lights on the top..yep. Toolbox (ammo box) on the side....yep. I did avoid drilling or welding and used zip ties and magnet for the lights and a half square bracket (wrapped in garden hose) to attach the ammo box.
I find it hard to believe two small holes drilled in the top for lights puts the roll bar integrity into question.
Right
Another excellent video.
don't drill or weld. The plates riveted right??
Well you know people. They will ignore those small rivet holes and drill 1-1/2 inch holes - because bigger is better.
Used U bolts on mine. And cheap and allows me to adjust anything.
so they can drill holes in the bar but you cant? 🤣(sorry that's funny to me).... but i used magnets to mount my lights. im now looking for a canopy and it seems Kubota uses a ton of different ones. i have even seen a john deere part number for a L2501 canopy... i never drill in rops my self, but it seems hard to find a good lookin canopy.
My Kubota dealer sold me my used tractor with the ROPS folded and i didn't think anything of it but it's missing the pins. Well i figured that out when it kept flopping around and there were no pins. So they want $200 for a set of the pins. Needles to say I've yet to pay for them.
Question: have you done a standard canopy versus deluxe canopy video? Might be good for a 3 minute Thursday.
Good idea, we sell very few in our area. Not likely to have both on hand.
Why would you ever keep roll bar down?
I am new and inexperienced
to fit in a building, or work under something.
So, if "I" put a hole in the ROPS it's ruined, ... but it's OK if the manufacturer does ? Because I'm stupid, ... right ?
The hole would be engineered, tested, and safety certified
roll bars are greate for taking down the garage door
robert hensen ...and knocking loose a few bricks, like I did.
Not if you've already done that with your brand new truck... 😥
How much do the brackets cost?
I wonder how tractor operators were able to survive without ROPS for more than 50 years prior to all these Federal Guidelines...🙄
Totally agree with government overreach, but in this case this saves lives. Tractors roll all the time, many people are injured
Some weren't able to survive. What a stupid comment.
Engineered into bar heh…looks no diff than a guy like me drilling dead center on ones we have
But it’s in the way!
But you have paid for it, so take it off. :0)
Good Video thanks Neil. Do you ship to Canada?
We can ship any parts to Canada BUT not Kubota.
Well i just made a video about how I drilled holes in my ROPS. Wish I would have seen this before. How much does a new ROPS on BX2380 typically run?
The rops bar is approx $250, but it's ackward and expensive to ship
@@MessicksEquip thanks.
@@MessicksEquip Thanks for the info. Just as FYI, I added a link to your video to my blog (www.familyprojectsblog.com/was-drilling-holes-in-the-rops-of-my-kubota-bx2380-tractor-to-install-and-led-light-bar-a-mistake/) about my experience. Hope your okay with that. if not let me know.
@@MessicksEquip Late to the party, but is there a folding ROPS for a bx2230? Are newer ROPS backward compatible?
dont need to drill holes when you have duck tape and zip ties
Good video on safety
U bolts are fine as long as some ham fisted person only lightly tightens them, if done up tight they will partially crush the tube and that weakens it more than a couple of small holes. So u bolts are NOT a way to avoid litigation.
What's it made of, tin foil?
DO NOT DRILL THE ROPS that’s the equivalent of the idiot stickers they put all over the tractors
Rops too tall to get in garage cut and re-welded 7018 rods
Funny ya talkin all this as it is a 2 pc ROP system…don’t think puttin a couple rivet nuts in it
Humm- light bar, tool box? Thanks for the ideas! Your pushing Billy Worx products? Hack!
Worst mistake is not having the ROPS upright and in place.
I knew a dumbass who got squished when he was mowing a steep hill on his yard, of course the roll bar wasnt up and he was dead instantly. SMH 🤦♂️
Edit: what was even worse was his wife was hollering at him to put the roll bar up not 5 minutes before he killed himself
That’s the first thing that gets taken off when we buy a new tractor working in chicken houses even folded down they are to tall
Had to chop mine for mowing because on this model john deere saw fit to put it out without a hinge.
True, but your application is different then most people who buy a tractor for the first time. Just like when someone buy a subcompact is for 1 of a few reasons either they want an alternative to a zero turn, don't have a lot of acreage, or need to get into tight spaces where 30 and 40hp tractors won't fit.
Its now state law in wisconsin that you must have one fitted - to any tractor - no matter if its from 1879 or 2019.
I quit listening at 1:04 when he said the rops keep it from rolling over.
I added training wheels on my tractor so it can't flip over
roy hoco - add wheelie bars!
like truck frames, do not drill holes or weld.
The worst thing people do with their ROPS is leave it folded down 24/7
Define "worst". I am willing to bet they would not say that is the worst thing they do. If they are happy leaving it folded down, so be it.
A couple years ago a guy in my town got crushed to death by his own Kubota because he left the ROPS folded down and didn't use his seatbelt. That inspired me to retrofit my 9N with a ROPS and seatbelt.
Dave M no, the guy got crushed because he didn't use his head. Rolling something, be it a piece of equipment, a truck, an atv, whatever is 99.99% of the time the operators fault and completely avoidable.
You and I weren't there so we don't know but I do know that not using available safety equipment when it's there is a recipe for disaster. None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes so a ROPS is there for those days when you don't use your head, even for a split second.
If you don’t wear the seatbelt the rops won’t do its part anyway.
Lets test it out. Go roll a tractor over and then drill some holes in the roll and roll it again. Because i don;t believe it. In fact my kubota open cab has holes drilled in it in several places and i caught a big tree branch and it lifted the whole tractor up and nothing happened except my heart getting ready to stop.Sounds like someone traded in one he modified and you made a video after arguing him about trade in value. Hate for you to see my old Ford that is jury-rigged all over. We farmers do that sorta thing. Besides..........best roll over protection you can have is 2 good feet to jump with.
don't disagree with you one bit. As was stated in the video, the concern is liability. When one injury related lawsuit is enough to wipe out your life's work and take everything from your family would you run the risk? I personally am not willing to toss that up to 'I hope so \ I think so'.
Well just keep making videos because we like them. Disagreements will happen.I watched a video a few weeks ago where a guy bought a new small kubota and cut the rops off with a sawzall.
Will do. Comments are great because it gives ideas for further videos. That's for adding.
Where I live in Spain I need my tractor to pass a technical test periodically in order to drive it on the road. I have added a light and moved the registration plate onto my ROPS. I didn't think about compliance and may now have problems with the authorities, even though I only used 6mm (1/4") holes, drilled and tapped
Leave it to the government and lawyers to get in the way of a man trying to get his work done!
Any ACTUAL case law, settlements etc from someone modifying a ROPs with a tab weld or small hole and getting sued for the next owners injury or death?
Also is there any actual proof these dealerships take off the old ROPs with an unauthorized hole in it to replace with a new unmodified one? I can see a dealership SAYING thats what they are going to do to drive the trade price down .
Any piles of scrap ROPS at any dealerships in the USA? Got any pics or docs of that?
Sounds like a bunch of BS without some actual supporting cases/docs/pics
I found the triggered guy who drilled his roll bars. ^^^
press 3 on your keyboard 10 times fast
OMG! your killing me Smalls!
FDOT strips or no FDOT strips, everything else is illegal.
Magnetic
Simple answer, if you are going to trade your tractor into any dealership (BAD IDEA anyhow), simply remove roll-bar when new and store it in the back of your shop. When you are ready to trade tractor in, re-install the roll-bar. Ok, so that's not a great idea, I know, I know... But, like it or not, it happens all the time. What's worse is that most people don't ever put them back on.
Even worse yet, they torch or sawzall the ROPS off, because they are too difficult to remove or were made to be an integral part of holding fenders and other things onto the tractor when it was designed by the manufacturer.
Saying you can't weld or drill into a ROPS is total bullshit. The problem is, it greatly depends where and how the modification is done. Some modifications are safe, and some are not. Because most people have no grasp of physics and engineering, they should not do the mods themselves. An experienced welder or repair shop should be able to do the modification to a safe specification. Again, problem is, nobody wants the liability, so often times it is up to the owner to make the modification themselves, leading to a dangerous situation/modification. I personally will do such mods for others as long as they sign a disclosure waiver of any and all liability on my part, in which I and they each get a copy of said signed form. Just good common sense, called "covering thy ass".
***Any open-station tractor with a non-folding ROPS is totally assenine, as it is totally impractical in a vast majority of use applications.*** I'm against the making of too many laws, however, there really needs to be a law that prohibits ANY open-station tractor from having a solid, non-folding roll-bar installed. This simple legislation alone would solve 2/3rds of the problems with people modifying/removing/destroying the ROPS that are on their tractors, because there would no longer be the need to do so.
Unfortunately, every application of where a tractor will be used may be different. What works for one owner/operator will often not work for another. ROPS along with SEATBELTS certainly have their safety benefits, but also many operational drawbacks that are unacceptable in many circumstances.
Nothing will ever replace good 'ol common sense when operating any tractor.
A waiver will not protect you if the person suing can show you failed to warn them off all instances of how this could fail or if they could show you acted "negligently". In other words if you didn't take the modification and run some Ansys analysis or at least static engineering calculations and their ROPS fails your waiver will mean nothing in court. Feel free to continue just may want to Google what liability a waiver can actually wave.
But the Warning Placard has been drilled & riveted on. Say what !
Playing the devils advocate: So you are telling us that if you take in a tractor and you adjust the trade in because of issues with the ROPS, then you are going to install a new ROPS before you resell the tractor? Maybe you will, but does Kubota have a policy to make sure ALL dealers tow the line or will someone get dinged on the trade in and the next buyer get screwed in buying an unsafe Rops and then gets screwed again if he trades it in? How do I know which one is authorized to have holes in it and which ones aren't. Do ALL kubota sales people know this too. Where can we get this information before we go to tractor shop? In following the 'Kubota tractors and equipment forum on Facebook, you know some dealers shouldn't be dealers'.
Kubota has muddied the water by having predrilled holes in some ROPS and not others. I think they would be better to create specs and possible templates as to where and what size hole could be drilled and the type of fastener required. see Ben Hollingsworths post below.
The owners manual for the specific tractor has the locations of the holes.
A proper weld is as strong or stronger than the base metal. How convenient that he pushes his friends product.
... not my friend? The issue is not strength, its certification and liability.
Messick's I stand corrected. Forgive my cynicism. These brackets actually look like a great idea for someone who can’t or chooses not to weld.
what would Messick's do if I wanted to trade in my NH TC33DA which has Two ~ 3/8 " Holes through each both faces of each side of the R.O.P.s ? Hold that statement and rethink. You can't hold it against Me. I didn't drill them. NH Did!
If there are there from the factory its no issue. They were part of the certified and engineered structure. The problem comes in when you start drilling holes in something with ROPS\FOPS certifications from OSHA.
What about my old Ford 3000? OMG, it doesn't have a ROPS!!!!!!!
Just Jay ohmygod neither does my 4000!
What happens if I drill the ROPS and take the IDIOT STICKERS off the tractor 😂
You can modded any think you just have to know what your doing or some who does!
They put that is their for safety
Removed mine entirely best decision I ever made 800 hours later still can't believe I didn't do it sooner. If you're somebody who doesn't wear their seatbelt which is probably about 99.9% of us the ROPS doesn't do you any good.
A ROPS without a seat belt is still better than no ROPS at all:
rops.ca.uky.edu/content/important-information-about-rops
There are two reasons why a ROPS without seat belt is better than no ROPS at all. First, as mentioned previously, in a rear overturn, tractors with ROPS will usually rotate about 90 degrees and stop with the nose up in the air. The operator would most likely still be in the seat even without fastening the seat belt. Without a ROPS, the tractor will go all the way over and crush the operator. If a tractor with ROPS does roll all the way over in a rear overturn, the tractor will not land flat on top of you. Second, many side overturns are slow enough that the tractor only rotates about 90 degrees and ends up on its side. While it is still possible for the operator to fall from the zone of protection and land beneath the tractor or the ROPS, it is also quite possible to stay in the seat or operator’s station and not be injured, or suffer only minor injuries. Of course, wearing the seat belt is the safest thing to do.
"some guys" you mean Paul Short.
My tractor my decision. Where I live there’s no way I’m rolling it.
hit a sinkhole that opens up and you'll never have a chance. groundhog holes also sneak up out of weeds, or soft spots if a spring is in the ground or ... a thousand other possibilities for an "accident"
too late. had to trim off 2.5 inches off my bx2370 got tired of ripping my garage door off
That is why the fold
im i the only 1 having trouble watching there vids? they keep freezing on me..
it only happens 2 their vids.. i'll have 2 try lowering the quality. im wired 2 my router, becuz the wireless reader is messed up.. thanks 4 the tip. :)
so this was an ad for billy worx brackets as the manufacturers drill holes to put the information plate rivets on and then suddenly and magically make replacement rops with factory holes.
If two drillholes affect the stability of a ROPS so much, maybe you have to think about the whole concept of that wiggly thing. It‘s like a car-seller says to me don‘t wash the car, otherwise the paint goes off...
It doesn't change the stability, you're missing the point. It changes legal liability and voids it's safety certification.
I mean i get it from the liability standpoint, but isnt on a lot of roll bars there existing welds for the pin brackets. The fact that it is a folding roll bar kind of negates any argument against this practice as there is many holes in it from just how it is assembled as well as many welds depending on manufacturer. From Messicks standpoint i would say yes, cover your butt against lawsuits by covering your bases. But for someone buying a used tractor this issue is not a real concern for safety. And if you are putting a light bracket on your tractor then its at your own risk. I have grown up on tractors with no roll bar and no seatbelts. and the common practice is if you dont use roll bar dont use your seat belt so you can get out of the seat and not be trapped. I get the resale issue to a dealer as well.
But all said and done, a few 1/4 inch holes are not a real threat, some small tack welds are not a real threat. Big holes, or big welds yes it can be an issue of safety , but look at a UTV, there are often times all kinds of holes through out the roll cage to mount accessories. This isnt an issue to me, because i hardly use my roll bar as it is. Few exceptions is on the road or while on a hill. other than that flat ground moving manure and cleaning stalls no i dont use it. And i wouldnt think twice about adding anything to them either.
100% liability issue. If your the only operator and will never sell your equipment.. then you've probably got nothing to worry about.
The thing is the holes already in it were accounted for in the engineering. As opposed to the ones people are doing on their on.
I get it, but the fact that holes can exist in a roll frame, discounts that holes are inherently unsafe. Regardless of if they were engineered to be there or not. Same as the welds, the fact that they are often welded on from factory discounts that a welded frame is inherently unsafe. I also want to point out the fact that welds and holes are easily welded or ground off and painted over to hide the modification. \
You know logic goes out the window when it comes to liability in a court room right? your not wrong, but if you put a drill to a piece of safety equipment and it failed in any way what do you think is going to happen...?
oh i totally get it, i work in crop insurance. It is always best to cover all your bases. I carry a million dollar liability as we have horses. Do they get out and get hit by a car , no. Is it possible, yes. and if one thing is true in this world is that if something can happen it will. And as a dealer i would follow your stance as well. There is no way of telling whether it is safe as configured as it sits. And why would you take on the risk when it is easier and safer to count the expense in a trade deal and be covered. I for one hate permanent mods anyways as you cant revert back to original configuration
I get that it's a liability issue, but if you plan on keeping it do whatever you want to it as long as you know what you're doing. This guy is just a salesman with clean clothes you can tell he never worked a day in his life and only knows what the paperwork says.
If you drill into the web of the rops beam or weld you are fine. On heavy duty lowboys holding 50 tons and up, they actually stamp the web out and slide a through beam across and weld one side solid. The other side on most if not all lowboys has 70-80% of the web missing because all the stress is on the flange.
Those rops bars are pretty thick steel and these tractors weigh nothing. Plus it's not holding the entire weight of the machine it's only stopping it from rolling again after it tips. And besides, like other people said unless you wear a seat belt which I never knew a single person who did, it wont help. It may make things even worse.
I have a L3901 and the rops isn't even fully welded (designed that way !!?) Any way, I also have a 1961 john deere that: "doesn't need no stinkin' rops".
the only thing that is gurgling is the b.s. coming out of your mouth.
I disagree. If you are competent with a welder feel free to convert your ROPS into a 8 point roll cage. It's your tractor, and just because an engineer designed something to an industry standard doesn't mean it can't be improved. You can drill into your ROPS if you weld on proper reinforcement, but again you have to know what you're doing. If you do modify your ROPS you will probably only get one chance to find out if your modification was structurally sound. Hopefully you'll never have to find out.
Oh, Yeah, I forgot to mention, I've been driving tractors for the last 62 years and never have nor ever will where a seat belt. If it starts to roll, I'll be on the ground on the opposite side before the R.O.P.s hits the ground.
Exactly.
I had the same attitude until recently and I lost a family friend to a O/S tractor rolling. The fact is they turn so quick often times a person doesn't have time to react. A seat being used in this situation would have saved a life.
That’s the wrong headed thinking that will kill you. You think your fast enough to jump clear?
Exactly. Most people think they can jump clear and to only find out that they can't clear because they slipped, got caught up on something, or other and then got pinned. They roll quick.
A very dangerous idea. Of course there are scenarios where you have time - but when you don't have time you can get yourself killed. Here in Sweden we've had legislation demanding ROPS since 1959 on tractors. These ROPS where often fitted with glass and sheet metal to form rudimentary cabs. And on all of them there sticker/plates advising the driver to hold tight onto the steering wheel if the tractor was overturning or rolling. This was before even cars had (mandated) seat belts. And I can say that it has saved many farmers' lives by following that directive and not do I-know-best-approach.
I'll take my chances.
Damn, I made that mistake