Microneedling for Donor Area? Is this even possible?
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Is it possible to decrease scar appearance from FUE Hair Transplant with Microneedling?
I will try it myself and see what will happen.
Dr. Pen M8 Microneedling device that I use
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I am sharing my personal experience of my hair transplant and tips & tricks in order for you to go through your journey smoother! I am posting frequent updates starting from immediately after procedure, so you know what are you signing on!
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This man put a lot of hardwork to his videos it is our responsiblity to reach the video to related peoples thumbs up rolandas as always you're awesome
Appreciate that Abdul 👍
I agree really well produced videos, and hes doing experiments on his great hair and putting the results out for everyone.
@@MrRolandas Where's the result video?
@@ytsux9259 I'm still 4 months in. Will do an update once reached 6 months (in June) as I WILL need to shave my donor to 0 once again.
Man look for donor restocking by dr mwamba. He can fix this along with smp, there are results online not published by doc rather by clients. That’s the only way but you have to have hair in the chest or beard.
I think u need a lot lot more appreciation and support because ur content is awesome
Thank you!
Love your videos man, you deserve a lot more views.
Thank you!
thats right ; You deserve more views
This is an interesting experiment. Looking forward to seeing the results.
I did 5 microneedling procedures for acne scar treatment with a dermatologist and saw great results. Here's a couple things I learned that you might find helpful. 1) Dermatologists recommend applying hydrolonic acid to the treatment area prior to needling. It helps the needle glide and improves healing. 2) The needle depth is usually 2.5 - 3.0mm since scar tissue is deep. 3) Treatments were every 6 weeks to allow for full healing before another round. 4) Stay out of the sun for the first couple of days after treatment. Sunlight can change pigment in damaged skin (microneedling is nothing more than micro tears in the skin). Good luck!
Great comment, appreciate the insight!
FUE scars are about 4-5mm deep, so it would make sense to go deeper too, however by going deeper than 3mm you're risking to create more permanent scarring than with smaller needles. Maybe iti works for the face, however I can't see this as a good thing on a donor, where hair potentially can stop growing due to scarring alopecia.
I might however go as deep as 1.5-2mm.
@@MrRolandas Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't go deeper than 1.5-2.00mm on the sides. Too risky to go any deeper than that.
You are so brave, you go to the extreme to educate us🇯🇲🇯🇲👍
Taking one for the team 👊
Even with the scars looks amazing ! man, not even something you really notice or take a second look at ! Keep it up brotha
thanks! Indeed a barber told me too that it doesn't look that bad and people won't really think much of it. Lots of people have something on their scalps :D I'm not convinced though, but yeah, not terrible due to homogenous extractions.
You really suit that style ! The scars aren’t bad
most underrated hair transplant youtuber :)
good to see this topic covered, awesome vid Rolandas
BEAUTIFUL DONOR! WOW, that doctor is magic!
I never see donor like that. I usually see it very choppy
@@aslitarcanexposed635 You can't possibly be serious. His donor is in very bad shape unfortunately. I like Rolandas and his videos a lot, his result should give anyone looking into HT hope, but his donor looks pretty bad due to his scar tissue problem.
@@reeft I don’t think that’s a huge issue though - he should just keep his hair longer as it was in the beginning of the video. That was the best hair style as well, shaved does not look great.
@@Jump-2-the-moon I'm not saying that it is a huge issue. I'm just replying to the comment saying he has a beautiful donor which is untrue. I'm sure Rolandas would agree.
@@reeft The donor has been extracted in a homogenous pattern; it looks full without any 'gappy' or overharvested areas. It is a very good donor area for over 6000 extractions... Rolandas' own physiology just so happens to make his scars rather hypo pigmented and they thus appear quite apparent as a result. It doesn't mean his donor is in bad shape at all, this would be true if areas were visibly void of hair, which they are not even at shorter lengths.
Since this is an experiment, you might consider leaving a strip (eg, just above the neck) without microneedling. This would allow for more accurate conclusions about effectiveness.
not a bad idea!
I am looking forward to seeing what is your result !
Wishing you the best of luck!
p.s. There is always tattooing for this called Scalp Micropigmentation (SMP).
Thanks! Let's see how it goes 😉
@@MrRolandas I also have both the derma pen and the derma roller.
I got them two years ago when I stared my PRP injections (one every week for three months). I wanted to see if that would be enough to regrow my hair - it was not. I gave it a good 6 months and after, I have been researching the best H/T options (that I can afford). I am a n/w 3 (I think).
I'm not a big fan of PRP. If you have plenty of money, then sure, won't harm. But fin and min should be a priority.
@@MrRolandas The person who did it was a school friend (did not pay anything) ;-) !
I am on Fin and have been looking into Min, and what they do.
A) I am on Fin as there is nothing that would do the same job naturally to the same effect. Saw Palmetto, but I am not sure about the quality of the result would be the same.
B) Min, I am doing research on a theory that standing on your head to re direct blood flow back to the top, rather than doing it chemically. There are people who have been successful.
Minoxidil doesn't work by promoting blood flow. Minoxidil is metabolised into Minoxidil sulfate that goes into hair follicles and through unknown mechanism increases anagen phase of hair follicles.
Head stands won't do much if anything.
who was the doctor.He did a great job.
You can do capillary micropigmentation, the scars will disapear in 1 hour :)
Best video bro!!!
Thank you!
If this works you might just break the internet! (Well, for us FUE head scar people anyway 😃). I’ve only had 2,800 grafts and mine looks worse than yours. I’m gonna try SMP if your little experiment doesn’t work, good luck my G ✌️💯👍🏻🙏🏻👏🏻
Indeed I haven't seen anyone else doing it, so yeah.. here I am lol... always doing something different haha
Rolandas is the laboratory guinea pig that we know and love!
Haha lol, I won't go to an extreme extent though. Micrineedling won't harm, so not too bad 😁
@@MrRolandas True. Thought about SMPing it all...? Surely can find a really good one out there, that doesn't fade too bad?
I'd consider SMP if I'm very desperate (which I'm not) 😁
Seeing such good results makes me want to consider getting a hair transplant, but my biggest problem is that I have diffuse thinning. I don't have any completely bald spots unless you count my receded hairline, but I'm not really bothered by my hairline. If I had a hair transplant, I would be most concerned about adding density to help with my diffuse thinning, but this might be a bad idea. I remember hearing something about hair transplants being inadvisable for diffuse thinning because it could be harmful to the native hairs. The other reason I'm reluctant to get a hair transplant is because sometimes I cut my hair to a guard zero. That type of haircut makes it look like I've been shaving my head by choice rather than because of MPB. It has been about two months since I last cut my hair, so now it has some length, and I'm able to hide the diffuse thinning by using Toppik. I am still considering the option of going back to a guard zero haircut in case something goes wrong with the style I've been maintaining with Toppik. That's the other reason I'm reluctant to get a hair transplant. I don't know a lot about transplants, but I think I heard that even the really good ones leave noticeable scars, which would mean that head shaving is no longer an option. My understanding is that FUT leaves an obvious linear scar. And the scarring from FUE is less severe, but still noticeable when the patient has a short haircut or shaved head.
Reddit r/tressless might just be what you are looking for. Finasteride, ketoconazole shampoo and minoxidil should make those hairs thicken up.
I do read the posts on Tressless. I use 0.5mg of dutasteride, 2.5mg of oral minoxidil, 5% foam minoxidil and Nizoral.
I probably should have mentioned that I've only been using topical and oral minoxidil for a few months. I'm kind of disappointed because there hasn't been a significant improvement for my diffuse thinning. Maybe my hair has gotten slightly thicker, but I'm not as good of a responder to oral minoxidil as other people who have posted before and after pictures. I'm thinking of increasing my oral minoxidil dose from 2.5mg to 5mg.
@@dualscreengrant That’s a heavy combo. How long have you been doing dutasteride?
I started using finasteride in 2004, and it worked well until 2020. In December 2020, I started using dutasteride once a week and finasteride the other six days, but it didn't stop my hair loss from progressing. In May 2021, I started using dutasteride every day, and I don't use finasteride anymore.
I'm starting the journey with you bro (started yesterday). Will be using 1.7 depth and treating FUT and FUE scars once every other day. Fingers crossed 🤞
Once every other day might be an overkill with this length.
I'd suggest at least wait 7 days in between
@@MrRolandas i read that the depth for surgical scars is between 1.5 and 2.0 but I didn't read anything about frequency. 7 days seems like quite a large window since the skin heals in 2-3 days from what I've seen. Perhaps Monday and Thursday treatment would be more effective?
Extractions are done in about 3.5-5mm depth, not just 2mm. I can assume scar tissue will form in the same depth.
With 1.5mm+ needle length it takes longer to fully heal. Some suggest 10-14 days between sessions.
Don't over do it as you might make more harm than good.
@@marcusrh20 the skin does not heal ever 2-3 days. The improvement comes as it heals, not while you micro needle. At that depth, you need to wait at least every 2 weeks or you short change your healing. Micro needling for stretch marks are done every 4-6 weeks at 1.5-2 mm for perspective.
100%@@MrRolandas
well good luck. it looks dramatic trimmed. you have great content anyway! i wonder if you can micro pigment small part of the scars to if is realibe solution
There was a study, probably on mice, where when administered with a certain drug during the healing process of hair removal not only prevented scarring but caused new hairs to grow in the spots where they were removed. This had to be done before the scar tissue has formed as there is a build-up collagen afterward rending the hard tissue inert. Not sure if it was ever trialed in humans, but was interesting as it could have the potential to create unlimited donor hairs.
Wow, that’s super interesting! Do you have a link to the study?
@@MatthewChristianMurray Originally saw it on Hairliciously's channel, he made a video on the topic 4 months ago. watch?v=AJrHucwWhhY&ab_channel=HAIRLICIOUSLY is the part of the url to the video.
If you google "verteporfin regrow hairs in scar tissue" you will get further articles. The links I post in here are being removed.
Have you seen the videos of Kevin Mann about microneedeling? He is quite skeptical about the benefits of making bounds in the hair.
Yes I did. I believe in microneedling as an adjunct treatment AFTER one is on fin and min.
My application is for a different purpose though.
Rolandas, you might also want to follow the progress of Verteporfin and VS-6062. I’m sure you’ve heard about it for scarless HT’s. But it’s actually patented for wound induced hair neogenesis too. When you wound the fibroblasts either go into a regenerative fate or fibrosis fate. These drugs stops the fibroblasts from «choosing» the fibrotic fate. And this regeneration will be able to create de novo follicles.
Retin A/tretinoin can also induce hair neogenesis when applied post wounding days
I've seen it. Not really convinced it will grow hair follicles (happy to be proven wrong), but might be a good thing for scarring indeed.
Even if it doesn't grow hair, if extractions are done well, it will look good.
Just a suggestion derma stamp might be easier and less time consuming for large areas it’s inexpensive too!
very nice interesting video , keep it up !
Thanks mate!
U smart
No study on that but
I did that too
It works perfectly fine
The scars are so uniform that you dont really notice
Thanks for the video appreciate it 🙂
Im also after 2HTs. Actually I had never kept my hair shorter than 7 mm.
And you don't have to. For me I need some length too for better look
Thanks for doing this - no one else really talks about any type of solution for reducing FUE scars so I'm curious to see if this works.
Let's see how this will turn out 👍
I use DrPen 42 needles, 1.75 mm depth, once per fortnight for maybe 15 min, feels like a head massage tbh, I apply 5% minox immediately afterwards for maximum absoroption.
I have had 2 HT's and want to boost longevity of transplanted hair and also preserve donor hair for future HT (maybe 1500 donors left)
Oh i think we are the same !! 2 HT done.Maybe 1000 grafts lefted.
If you wnt we can compare some pics
I had the same problem after my FUE hair transplant. After hours of research I have a theory : when the extraction punches on the donor area are very large (> 1 mm) the melanocyte cells in the epidermis are destroyed and you get scars with hypopigmentation. Microneedling may help too increase blood flow in the area but I doubt it will regenerate melanocyte cells. The best option is SMP, or scalp micro pigmentation. Good luck.
My punch size was 0.8mm, so the problem is the way I'm healing as I've got what's called hypertrophic scars.
@@MrRolandas Hypertrophic scars have a reddish color and a raised dermis. They will vanish in 3 years. I'm pretty sure you have hypopigmentation (low melanin) in the punch area. Trust me, I have the same scars 12 years after the HT.
Yes, I do have low melanin of course as the scars are simply white. That being said, any other scar on my body is hypertrophic just like my fue scars, which are slightly raised.
Please check my latest video update on this microneedling trial where i show what i did and what kind of results i got.
@@MrRolandas I watched your video (6 mo. after micro-needling). You're mostly focused on the scars of your donor area and probably didn't notice how much thicker your hair there is now. As you said, you shouldn't worry about those scars. It would be a subject of concern only if you shaved your head every day. I'm very happy for you on your results. I enjoy the videos👍🏻All the best
@@MrRolandas ruclips.net/video/feCZXh9lG9k/видео.html
Another great video. Btw this is recommended by many doctors, including Dr. Bruno F. I've also tried it and when shaving the hair for the 2nd transplant I was really happy with my scars, will do it again..but when should you start? I was also considering also +-6months after ht.
It usually takes about 5-6 months for donor to fully heal, so that's why I decided to do after 6 months.
Dr linkov spokes about 4 a 5 month MIN after HT
How big was your punch size? I was considering a doctor that works with 0.9 and the wounds seem rather large. I know it increases the graft survival rate, but if it comes of cost of scarring I would consider a tradeoff and go for slightly lower punch size. What is your take on this?
I love your vids! Thank you for sharing! May I ask: What is your shortest length that you keep your sides and donor area that hide the donor scars? I'm at week 4 as of tomorrow, and my sides/donor area are so long that I feel just uncomfortable at work/outside now. I'm thinking a #3 or #4 guard? (I know everyone is different, but wanted to ask you how you did yours 🙂 ) --- Thanks so much! Keep up the great videos!
He said guard 2. Usually with an average hair transplant you can shave up to 2 mm without being visible at all, so guard 1. I Guess he had bad extractions but a Great result
MICROPIGMENTATION is best to cover scars.
Curious to see the results of your experiment by the middle of next year.
Great video - super interesting experiment. Is there an update on progress available?
The only small "update" is on my Instagram, other than that im waiting for 6 months (in june) to shave my donor again and see how it looks
Get SMP on the holes it should camouflage it perfectly
These holes are very big . It wont be “ perfectly”
Have you ever considered applying something like Retinol or a chemical exfoliant like Mandelic Acid, Glycolic Acid, etc. to the donor area? I’ve been using them on my face the past 4 months and the difference in scarring is pretty big. Research them!
will have a look, thanks!
So after doing this for a year what is your conclusion?
@@roguexr9396 I’ve been using them on my face and my skin is MUCH better. I now have little-to-no hyperpigmentation, and it’s almost completely resurfaced my skin.
For the record: I use Differin which is Adapalene to help with skin resurfacing. I had to get it in a prescription. I still have a little way to go, but it’s been great.
I also started using Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) over the past 6-8 weeks. This primarily helps with skin lightening, so it’s assisted in my hyperpigmentation. My only regret is that I wish I used it sooner!
@paradiseplayer5103 and you're talking about the skin in your donor area correct?
@@roguexr9396 No, I’m talking about my face. I’m suggesting to the original poster that he should consider researching these for use on his donor area.
Your a Rockstar! Thankyou for all the videos and replies! Maybe you have mentioned this before, Are you for or against ftu?
Fut can be very useful for bigger cases imo
@@MrRolandas thank you. It seems you case was large and a lot of the readers here are using fue. Is that simply because they don't want a scar?
I'm not bothered about having a close shave haircut but if I did I can see how it would be a problem.
For the most people - yes (scars). Also another reason is cost. There's no good fut surgeon that's cheap.
Personally I would have gone with fut should I find good surgeon in my budget.
@@MrRolandas interesting, in my neighborhood it's the other way around. Ftu is cheaper. California. Have you heard of any recommendations around California? Thank you.
Yeah in US FUT is cheaper than fue, however in Europe is other way around as not many good fut surgeons.
Tbh I don't have. I've heard some names that are good but where they are I have no idea.
I suggest to start looking at iahrs.org good list of surgeons. Not all of them will be best of the best, but at least they won't be rock bottom quality. Lots of them in US.
While it is short could you experiment with some concealer on the scars? Would a grey dermmatch work? Or maybe some normal make up skin coloured concealer? Would be interested to know before I shave down the sides. Thanks!
Try smp for the scars
You should of use a razer to shave your sides
Nice man your donor is fine to me you just need to go somewhere warm and sunny for a week or two and get outdoors the pigmentation should even out👊🏿
Haha, scar tissue doesn't get pigment. If anything, skin will get darker and it will be even more contrast haha
@@MrRolandas oh damn ok but it's not bad and the cut looks good...
Yeah I'm not bothered with my scars tbh, just experimenting 😁
Would it not be better to get SMP to hide the impact in the donor area?
Idk, would it? Keep putting more and more ink over time with possibilities of fading away in just a few weeks/months, getting bigger, changing colour etc.
Surely if everything goes well cosmetically it's a better option, but not everyone will need it.
you can cover up with SMP
What about Micropigmentation ? Good or bad ?
crazy result, the hypertrichosis effet of OM didn't affect you're arm/ leg/ chest/ back/ shoulder? it has stopped growing after 3 month? thanks
Maybe it did, but nothing substantial that I've noticed.
You can do micropigmantation to cover the scars.
yes, you're right :)
scalp micro pigmentation can be done to camoflage scars.
thanks
Go for a low fade skin fade...won't look as bad the donor area
Yep, I know :)
PS: Did you think about using the good old derma roller instead of the derma pen?
I like the pen as well, but I feel like having more control where I do the rolling especially if I use it for not visible areas like the Donor.
It's not a bad idea, but I think I will try to figure it out with the pen.
@@MrRolandas whatever fits best mate
And then, the final step will be a micropigmentation procedure to fill in all those scars.
Should look completly natural
Nah, not going to pursue this as it's completely unnecessary. I'd consider this if only my donor looked thin.
@@MrRolandas it does look thin with the shaved head. with the longer hair it looks ok
Yeah but why would I shave it anyways 😅
@@MrRolandas yeah, honestly no reason to do it. You can still grow out the top more to have that nice contrast between the sides/back and top, without clipping the sides to 1/2
Such short style on my donor doesn't even suit me. I need a but more length #3-#4 on the sides to structure my face better. This is purely for an experiment.
Great video. Have you ever thought about SMP?
Yes. Not a big fan for many reasons, but would consider it should I be very desperate 😁
@Steven Price fading, changing colour long term, potentially fading as quickly as few months, monetary costs, long term implications (ink over ink over ink over ink. Will it actually look good even if it stays?).
yep, it can happen. People don't do their research well enough before jumping on it. Just like with anything else, there are downsides.
If it's "too good to be true, it probably is".
@Steven Price Well, it doesn't mean it will always be this bad for everyone, but this can happen. Something to keep in mind.
@Steven Price Yep, trichopigmentation would be my choice too.
You mentioned that you dont want to do scalp micropigmentation. Can you tell us reason why? I have noticed that a lot of youtubers with hair transplant dont like SMP but nobody ever specific why.
We dont know how smp will look long term after 5-10 years. There's already evidence it can change color, dots can expand, or simply dissappear (which isn't that bad tbh).
I wouldn't be the one running around with blue/grey skin.
It seems that you are currently not willing to explore SMP. Can you share your considerations?
How about scalp micropigmentation for the donor area?
good option should one want to do.
Do you think micropigmention would make it look better?
of course it would
Great video! Any update on the donor area after microneedling?
Yes, the video is out on my channel
@@MrRolandas just watched it. Great update! Would love to see another 6 month update if you’re up for it.
I decided against it as I don't believe it will improve any further. Needle length should be longer to get any tangible result, but that's more dangerous doing at home, hence I'm leaving this experiment.
Hi, can you tell a link to where one can buy the shirt you are wearing? Thanks!
I bought it from Zara if I recall few years back
Awesome
Hey bro, which one should microneedling device should I take if I'm low on my budget. Getting Dr pen a6 cheaper here in india. Will it cause a big difference if I get that instead of m8 ultima?
Nah man should be almost the same. The difference is only in speed and thickness of the needle.
@@MrRolandas that's great! Ordering immediately
why not just do mirco pigmentation just cover up the scars?
I don't wear such short hairstyle, so no need for smp
Why not trying to grow a beard by using minoxidil/tretinoin/castor oil/microneedling. Results are suppose to stay for whatsoever reason… And after that put the beard grafts on your fue’s scar?
It's impossible to create new hair follicles that currently don't exist. I know it well as I've tried it.
How long should one wait after a hair transplant before micro needling your donor or receipt area?
I was waiting 6 months. That's also what my surgeon suggested (if we're talking about donor area). The top I'd stay away for 8-9 months
Hey it looks symmetrical, which makes it look natural. Maybe you just have large hair follicles 🤷♂️
I wish I could have large hair follicles haha
Are the scars bumpy or are they just flat?
They are bumpy indeed in my case
So,how is your dinor area after needling!Do you have any improvements in terms of growth or only improve on the scars a little bit!Or nothing? :D
I don't expect any improvement in terms of growth, just scar appearance. Can't tell as I need to buzz it down to 0 😅
@@MrRolandas what is the timeframe of microneedling to start seeing any improvements?
In such case nobody knows - hence an experiment.
I will review it after 6 months
Great video. Hope this works out for you. Otherwise you'll still have SMP.
Well I'm not bothered about my scars as I need longer hair for better suited cut anyways.
Hi Rolandas. did you see some improvment so far?
No as I don't see my scars 😅 I need to shave it all down on order to see it, hence I will do it only once in 6 months
Do you have to wet your hair when using dr pen or can you do it dry ?
I'm doing dry
I guess you could tattoo the scars to disguise them. But they're really a non issue, I dunno why you'd even want to shave the sides and back so so low.
For an experiment, obviously 😅 I'm not bothered with my scars, but I want to know if it can do something, so others might have an option should they need.
@@MrRolandas cool, I thought you were going all obsessive ha!
Nah I'm finally in peace with my hair loss
@@MrRolandas And I'm so fucking jealous. ... but you give me hope.
can you actually fill your donor gaps with bodyhair at this point ?
Of course I can.
Are you taking any medicine ? I did 2 FUE 5 years ago and now I see my hair thinning again. But I’m not using any chemicals.
well thats the problem dude ! Why you dont consider finasteride ? At least by doing micro dosage ! I started with 0.25 mg EOD
How much grafts please ? wich NW scale was you ?
Mr. Rolandas, have you ever considered smp? What do you think about smp?
Great video. Thanks buddy.👍🤓
please refer to some other comments under this video on this subject
@@MrRolandas 👍
Good
Why not just get smp in the fue scars ?
Not needed 😉
Hey in cases like this would you consider S&P?
No 😉
Hello Mr , really important question I had my hp 6 months ago , I am satisfied with the results , but recently I am shedding alot , is it because I stopped minoxidil?
Quite likely
@@MrRolandas should I start it again ?
Idk, it depends on your situation
did it worked?
a bit
@@MrRolandas not the ans i wanted 😂😂
Sorry! 😅
Make sure to watch that latest video on it for clear examples
@@MrRolandas sure 👍🏻
Are scars present with DHI method too?
DHI is just implantation technique. Extractions are done via FUE (Follicular Unit Extraction)
How long though does it take to see results on average?
Depends on the scar and how deep it is. It can have visible results as soon as few months.
Just get some SMP man. Easy and fast.
I would if my donor would bother me - it's not 😄
@@MrRolandas Glad to hear that!
Do you still take minoxidil?
Of course
@@MrRolandas ty for the quick response
Waiting for follwup
Coming up in June
How much that pen cost?
I bought it for £111 on black Friday deal. Usual price is about £140 in UK.
u sound like Gru
🤣
SMP your donor area
nah, im good with a bit of length ;)
Inspired by hairlicously? 😂
Hell no. I'm not following this fraud.
Yes it’s a great hair transplant,but you need smp, and it does look like shit
Great video, can any1 give me some advice. I'm 1 month post op and my partner accidently dermapen my recipient area 1 month post op with a 1mm, she did roughly a square inch accidentally, is this area going to suffer?