Holy Ghost is no different than the Spirit of Christ..... Those that claim to have the Holy Ghost got it when you they were ONLY 8 years old! In adult hood it is a " Holier than Thou" mentality because they made it and got it at their earlier years of upbringing. So wrong!. Mormons do that well. Been there and done that.
What I'm talking about is seeking an answer to a question, like is the church true and receiving a confirmation from the Holy Ghost. James 1:5 If any man lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all men liberally and upbraideth not and it shall be given him. That way there is no need for intellectual discussions. @@tamimorgan8903
If you don’t believe in a church and what it teaches or how it’s organized, why not just find another church. Thats what people of other religions do … this feels like attention seeking.
What's not said here is why? Bill, is a history geek, and knows a lot about the Mormon church, and when he found out things weren't being represented honestly, he asked the church, including his local leaders, and stake president, about these matters... because well, being honest is crucial to finding any truth, and his local leaders, and those who are in charge at church headquarters basically had, "no answers", to his questions.... if anyone dares to question those in authority.
I'm a history geek myself, but I'm still active in the church. I've listened to some of his podcasts, and it's clear that he is also agenda driven and will distort the history to fit his agenda. For example, the recording he published at his trial, he makes multiple claims about church history such as Joseph Fielding Smith trying to hide the 1832 first vision account by cutting it out only to tape it back in years later. Why if Joseph Fielding Smith wanted to hide it, wouldn't he have simply burnt it? He didn't. So reading Joseph Fielding Smith's intentions one way is problematic. By the way, nobody ever points this out, but the earliest first vision account is actually in Section 20 verse 5, very brief. Full details of even the transfiguration have not been made public. Why does everyone question church history, and the morality of Joseph Smith's polygamy always has to be pro LGBTQ? The Bible alone teaches that the LGBTQ lifestyle is ungodly. Polygamy, on the other hand, is not treated in a negative light.
Right. As I said, why did he think his local leaders were qualified to answer his questions. FAIRLDS is there to answer questions. Daniel Peterson is a great resource in the church. Bill should have contacted him.
I recently found his podcast and he enjoys making fun of the church and laughs at many church things...so saying he wants to be a member does not ring true to me at all...anyways i figured him out and stopped watching because all he does is try to pull the church down.
Once he said "at every turn" I realized he is AT MINIMUM a man of hyperbole. Does the Church have problems? Yes, it does. It likely always will. So do I, and I enjoy the fact that the Church doesn't go out of its way to humiliate me - seems like I ought to give it the same treatment. These guys that "just want to talk about the truth" usually have far more in mind. What they really want is to broadcast negative speculation, second hand accounts and the wrongdoings of former church leaders. Is the Church shy about its past? Yes it is. I'm shy about my own. Fair is fair.
The insinuation in both of your comments is “if a church member talks about or highlights a negative aspect of the church or its history, they must have nefarious intentions”. Have you considered that maybe they do not want to pull the church down - rather, they want the negative aspects of the church addressed and corrected for to make the church better and stronger? The problem is that you believe that anyone saying anything negative is “anti-Mormon” or otherwise trying to take the church down. It may be worth being more charitable to their POV and look inwards for what parts of the church make people so keen to criticize it.
The Church of Jesus Christ is restored in its fulness and its true. Any man can think as they wish but when you speak against God and his Prophets amen to the loss of your power and authority. I to have had many questions and concerns but I know where i stand because I recieved a witness from God of the divinity of this latter day work. If there are questions I cant awnser or concerns I cant resolve I don't let it undermine my entire foundation! How foolish many will feel when they realize what they have thrown away because they got hung up on a small thing they couldn't reconcile because of Lucifers ability to blind them to the truth.
Darris Ellis "...I know where i stand because I recieved a witness from God of the divinity of this latter day work. If there are questions I cant awnser or concerns I cant resolve I don't let it undermine my entire foundation!" Deuteronomy 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them; Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Proverbs 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered. John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Moroni 10:4 “And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are NOT TRUE.” Jesus didn’t say to pray to see if something is true. He said to search the scripture and when He said scriptures, He meant the bible. When you study the Book of Mormon and find false teachings, it doesn’t make any sense to pray to see if it’s true. Moroni also didn't say to ask God if the Book of Mormon is true. It says to ask God if the Book of Mormon is NOT TRUE. How many Mormons have prayed, believing the Holy Spirit told them the book is true when the Holy Spirit actually told them it was NOT TRUE. When you toss out the word of God and turn to other sources for truth, you are vulnerable to belieing anything. You have ignored all of the warnings that God gave us in both the Old and New Testament and your fate is hell if you continue worshipping men.
@@rickdavis2235 Rick, your right! You know where you stand! You truly know you have committed the unpardonable sin and denied the Holy Ghost! As a result you have subjected yourself to the father of lies and are possessed with a lying spirit! You can twist and mutilate the scriptures all you want! Lucifer does the same. I will not entertain or dignify your folly with a point by point reply because YOU KNOW you once knew and YOU KNOW you turned your back on Christ! You know it and you know God knows it! I will not entertain the Spirit of Apostasy and rebellion!
@@darrisellis8810 "I will not entertain the Spirit of Apostasy and rebellion!" You already have. You don't know the bible because you wouldn't be a Mormon if you did. You are spiritually discerned and prideful. The word of God says you will perish in hell. You brought up Lucifer. His favorite tool for separating men from God is man-made religions that boast of their good works and worship their church. Christ is not a created being. The Jesus you worship is not God. Jesus of the bible is the one and only eternal God. That's what every Christian believes. That's Christianity. While you are trying to work your way to heaven, Jesus has already done it but you are blinded by Satan and unless you repent, you'll perish in the lake of fire. He cannot change the truth but he doesn't need to. He just needs to keep it from you, which he has been very successful at doing.
@@rickdavis2235 I read the Bible daily Bro and have both the Priesthood of God and the Holy Spirit. You have neither! Without the Holy Ghost you cannot even begin to comprehend the written word. Is an Apostle a Prophet? Yes! So to illustrate in only one case your inability to understand scripture and to prove you don't know what your talking about we will use this one point you have misinterpreted! When Judas committed suicide who replaced him in the twelve? I thought Christ was THE LAST PROPHET? Who replaced Stephen when he was stoned to death? Who are the two prophets to be raised up to Jerusalem that will lie in the streets for 3 days after holding the armies of Lucifer at bay for 3.5 years? Who is the rod of Jessie? I thought God was the same yesterday, today and forever but apparently he only used Prophets to warn and lead the people until Christ! That would also make him a changeable God and a liar because of Amos 3:7! God does nothing that he doesn't reveal to his servants the prophets in order to warn and direct both his work and to preserve the righteous remnant. Christ is not the last Prophet but is and was the First and the Last or in other words Alpha and Omega and any true doctrine has its beginning and end in him! He IS the last and final word on any issue, doctrine and principle because everything has its beginning and end in him. That is a completely seperate issue. Moses said "would to God you/we were all Prophets"! No man can declare Jesus is the Christ but by the spirit of Prophecy therfore your interpretation would infact destroy the entire ministry of preaching the word to bring souls to Christ! I know you think your a cheeky, clever defender of the faith but until you accept the Book of Mormon which is the urim and Thummim, metaphorically speaking, to correctly decipher the Biblical text you will chase your tale until you entirely abandon your faith for your foundation is built upon sand.
@Darris Ellis DARRIS ELLIS: "I read the Bible daily Bro and have both the Priesthood of God and the Holy Spirit. You have neither! Without the Holy Ghost you cannot even begin to comprehend the written word. " What do you read? Proof-texted verses? I challenge you to study the entire Bible. Start with the Book of John and learn who the real Jesus Christ is because He is God Almighty. He is the creator of everything. He is the savior that was promised in the very first book of the bible. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in those who deny that Christ is the one and only eternal God. Try studying the bible as a small child would, without presuppositions when viewed through Mormon lenses. No intelligent person would every come to believe that Mormonism is true if they truly know the bible. DARRIS ELLIS: "Is an Apostle a Prophet? Yes!" No! An apostle and prophet are two different things. Apostle means "one who is sent out" to spread the gospel. Apostles are not present in the church today. The qualifications of this type of apostle were: 1. to have been a witness of the resurrected Christ (1 Corinthians 9:1) 2. to have been explicitly chosen by the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:15) 3. to have the ability to perform signs and wonders (Acts 2:43; 2 Corinthians 12:12). The responsibility of the twelve apostles, laying the foundation of the church, would also argue for their uniqueness. Two thousand years later, we are not still working on the foundation. DARRIS ELLIS: "When Judas committed suicide who replaced him in the twelve?" The 11 disciples proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (possibly the same person as Barnabas), and Matthias (Acts 1:23). The 11 disciples then prayed for the Lord’s direction (Acts 1:24-25), and then cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias (Acts 1:26). DARRIS ELLIS: "I thought Christ was THE LAST PROPHET?" Christ is the last prophet but Christ is not a mortal man like the other prophets so that made John the last in that sense. Do you believe that Christ lied again when He said John was the last prophet? The Christ is Yahweh and Yahweh is Almighty God, and you can read it for youself in scripture that I'll provide in a separate post. DARRIS ELLIS: "Who are the two prophets to be raised up to Jerusalem that will lie in the streets for 3 days after holding the armies of Lucifer at bay for 3.5 years? DARRIS ELLIS: "Who is the rod of Jessie?" The root of Jesse is a metaphor found in Isaiah 11:10: “In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.” The term root of Jesse figuratively stands for the Messiah. DARRIS ELLIS: "I thought God was the same yesterday, today and forever but apparently he only used Prophets to warn and lead the people until Christ! That would also make him a changeable God and a liar because of Amos 3:7!" God didn't lie. You have just exposed your lack of knowledge of the Bible. Why would God use prophets to lead us when God Himself became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14)? You don't understand who Jesus is because you've been led to believe because, according to you, he is no different than you or anyone else. He's just one of many exalted men but that's not the what the Bible says and that's why you're not saved. Believing in Jesus isn't what saves us. Believing in the true Jesus does. God now speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. He is the Helper that Jesus promised the disciples when He told them He was going to the Father. The Holy Spirit is what leads us now. Why do you need a prophet to tell you what the Holy Spirit is saying if you have the Holy Spirit? DARRIS ELLIS: "Christ is not the last Prophet but is and was the First and the Last or in other words Alpha and Omega and any true doctrine has its beginning and end in him! He IS the last and final word on any issue, doctrine and principle because everything has its beginning and end in him. That is a completely seperate issue." DARRIS ELLIS: " Moses said "would to God you/we were all Prophets"! No man can declare Jesus is the Christ but by the spirit of Prophecy therfore your interpretation would infact destroy the entire ministry of preaching the word to bring souls to Christ!" You are proof-texting again. Numbers is God speaking to the Israelites, who were under the old covenant of the law. We are no longer under the old covenant. We are now under the new covenant of grace that was ushered in my Jesus on the cross. No man will be justified by the laws of the old covenant. If the old covenant could give anyone eternal life, then Jesus died for nothing. The law was merely to point out our sinfulness and show us why we need a savior. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. If you want to work your way to heaven by keeping the law, I think you should know that there are 613 commandments that God gave to the Israelites to keep. There's something you knew nothing about. They are called the Mitzvot. How is that going for you? You assume a lot. I don't think I"m a cheeky defender of the faith. I am "thoroughly equipped for every good work" by the God-breathed word of God as defined in 2 Timothy 3:16-17. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. Show me in the Book of Mormon or Pearl of Great Price where you can become a god or that God used to be a man. Show me in history where there was a great apostasy. The evidence exists only in your indoctrinate mind.
Have we seen this story before? In the moment they are leaving, they talk about how much this 'tribe' means to them, how everything about "Mormonism' is a part of their very being, except, except, except, 'Oh, I really can't go along with their doctrine.' This doesn't make any sense. The doctrine? How can you miss out on the doctrine if you truly investigated it and 'converted' to it? (2nd Nephi 27:35) "They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine." If he is seeking the truth, there is a promise associated with that search from Jesus.
I embraced the LDS church four years ago. My parents were LDS as was my great great great grandmother. Never have I heard them utter a single word that made me question my faith. Are we perfect? No One Is. Faith is not so much about the church. It is about the person. How you live your life and your Relationship with our Heavenly Father. It is for everyone. Absolutely Not and neither is Catholic, Judaism, Pentecost or any other church. It is Your Relationship with God. Maybe one of these days People will realize the faith you follow does not make you eligible for the privilege of entering God's House....It is how you Live and Treat your Faith and Others People. Not because you are LDS, Catholic, Jewish or Protestant. It is Your Relationship with God. No Man or the Church and the beliefs.
Yet to meet a latter day saint who wants to leave the church say it is because the Holy Ghost told them to do so. Always some academic reason or some complaint about what the church teachers, which incidentally the church has always taught, or what some academic says historically happened, as though they were there to know what actually is the truth of a matter. God knows all the truth of all the ages of His creation so if you want to know the truth ask Him, that is what He personally told me to do 40 odd years ago before I had even heard of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. When I did find out about it I got on my knees in my lounge in Northampton, England, and asked Heavenly Father if He and Jesus had personally spoken to Joseph Smith and directed him what to do. Clear answer as the peaceful Holy Spirit told me personally these things were what had actually happened. An answer from God is good enough for me. I am thankful for Jesus being my Saviour. Hope to see you on the other side.
I never met a good return missionary lose his testimony. I say good because some should have stayed home. On my mission I witnessed the power of the truth change lives for the better
You used a fallacy, “One True Scotsman!” Staying ignorant isn’t a virtue! Do your own independent, unbiased research! If anyone tells you not to look they are hiding something! Besides Mormonism is demonstrably false, but hey all religions are!
All the men in my family were the best returned missionaries with the strongest testimonies I’ve ever seen. Then they researched and discovered the truth in the history. And all the hidden lies. They were devastated as they dedicated their entire worlds to this church and money and spent time trying to bring people in. One friend I know had to call all of his converts because he felt so bad that he lead them into a false religion.
Oh man! I haven’t heard that one for a while. Thanks for the reminder of how the church can take away even the things you’ve done for them and count it as nothing.
@@winddancer8516 Pascal’s wager is an old and tired defense of your sky daddy! Besides pascal wager applies to you too! How petty of your sky daddy to be mad at me because “his” holy book is bs and poorly written and full of contradictions
It might have happened to over 15 million people who’ve followed a MAN who received a gospel taught by an angel seen in a dream/vision. The navy that will be deceived is hard to imagine.
Tee Eye you know that’s an imaginary number , apostasy happens in small numbers always and some of them leave their church but sadly can’t leave the church alone!!
LUIS P well I haven’t left the church but it seems like those who give 10% of their income and a whole lotta time and their trust should be given a bit of grace if they want to prod the church when it seems their efforts for years may have been in vain. Do you think they should just walk away with their head hung low and tail between their legs for being taken advantage of?
I gave up on Bill Reel years ago, not because he questioned Mormonsim, but because I have better things to do than listen to skeptics pull down peoples beliefs. I wish him well.
I also wish him well. Its a personal journey. You don't need to follow a duck to water. Walk your path and quit announcing to all what you decisions are like a town crier...for what...no one cares..
Do they kick out his whole family? He is the male and the priesthood leader of his family. Everyone in his family is sealed to him in their temple. If he gets kicked out, since everyone one in the family is connected to him, does that mean his whole family will be kicked out too?
No it doesn't mean they all get kicked out. If They are all sealed and he is excommunicated only his sealing is null and void. Through the grace of Christ and his atonement the sealing is still valid for his wife and children. Unless his wife chooses to leave and then hers are void. The Childrens will remain intact until they come of age and choose for themselves.
@@darrisellis8810 Thanks Darris. But his wife and children are sealed to him, but you are saying that due to Christ and his atonement that somehow the chain of sealment doesn't matter anymore.
@@johannasteinbrecher7004 I'm a lifelong member who was sealed in the Temple and after 14 years of Marriage my wife was no longer interested in me being a part of the picture. We were divorced civily but she pursued a Sealing cancelation so you would think that that would break the link that ties the kids together also. God is merciful and that isn't how it works. Each adult, Male or Female recieves their individual Endowment and is sealed to God. Then we are sealed in a three way covenant with Him. If either the husband or wife are unfaithful to thier spouse or God the other still has a link through their endowment or individual covenants. If both are unfaithful then the link that "was" in place has already automatically bound the children born under that covenant to God and it can't be nullified for the Children until they become of age and choose for themselves to follow or reject God. I had similar concerns when my former spouse recieved approval for a sealing cancelation. I was assured that I'm still bound to the Father through my individual Endowment and the kids through the birthright blessing of being born under the Covenant that was in effect when they were born. The Catholic Church use to teach and may still teach that children that die in infancy before there able to be baptized go to hell or purgatory for eternity. What kind of an unjust un-mercifull God would punish innocent Children because of the sins of their parents? We know that children who die before the age of accountability, which is 8yrs of age, before recieving baptism are recieved into God's presence because of the blood of Christ. The innocent need no repentance and Christ asks us to humble ourselves as little children. Why? Because its their innocence and childlike nature that makes them able to enter his presence. In the same sense God won't punish the innocent children born to those who don't abide within their covenants. Where there is no law their cannot be accountability and the pure mercies of Christ lay hold to the victims in relation to the violations of the laws thier parents are bound by. Abrahams Fathers were unfaithful but Abraham became the possessor of the New and Everlasting covenant. How, if his Father, grandfather and Great Grandfather had all turned from God? We are not judged or punished for the sins of others but by our own sins.
@@johannasteinbrecher7004 Well I hope you will continue to ponder upon the teachings of our faith and hope that as you pray for guidance you will recieve a witness from God of the divinity of the latter day work. Our time to prepare is running out and the Prophet has warned that we are at a time when the only thing that will protect us is our faith and covenants which bind us to God and secure his protection. If you sincerely desire a witness directly from Him and will sacrifice whatever it takes to get it i promise you he will not only let you know he has restored his gosple, church and authority to the earth but he will open your mind and quicken your intellect so that you will know not only these truths but that He is the one telling you. In other words you will know that it is God that has revealed it to you. He will manifest not just the truth of what he has restored but he will impress upon your soul in an unmistakable way that it is truly divine revelation your receiving and you will know undisputably that it was God who witnessed it to you. You will know him because he will have literally made himself manifest to you in a way you could never deny without knowing you will offend him and bring upon yourself condemnation. With such a witness you will have the courage to accept your new found faith and enter the waters of baptism where you can bind yourself to God under his authorized representatives making valid the ordinance that secures you his blessings in this life AND IN ETERNITY. I don't know your background or your Faith but if you ever need clarification or have additional questions please feel free to reach out. I will tell you that we are very close to the return of the Messiah and the time to repent and seek the Lord is closing. The times of the Gentiles is fulfilled and the Judgement of God is about to overtake the world. All the best to you Sister. May Gods love and protection be over you and your family.
One interesting thing to notice from throughout Church history, is that there is not a single person who has ever fallen away from the Church that didn't FIRST stop feasting on the Latter-day scriptures on a daily basis. Not one single instance.
What do you say to someone like me who was born and raised a member, but it was only once I began “feasting on the Latter-day scriptures” during my mission and early twenties that my testimony faltered? I am a fully non-believing ex-Latter day Saint who still studies LDS scripture quite often as I find it fascinating, but I don’t believe. Or do you just think I’m a liar because I don’t fit into the mold of what you believe someone who would leave your religion would be?
@@michaeltheiii more like that scripture in Alma that teaches those who harden their heart, to them is given the lesser portions of the word until they know nothing at all and then they are taken captive by the devil and led by his will down to destruction. Here comes the "irk" response.
I am a firm believer in the teachings of Jefferson, that an individual's thoughts and beliefs are a sacred thing, no matter what it is they believe. Respecting that is the hallmark of america. Which is why i won't tear down others' faith. So if you believe God is a man in physical form in flesh and bone and lives on planet (perhaps with his polygamous wives) on a planet near a star called Kolob, great!!!!! Believe in whatever you want to believe. I have no issue with that. But irrespective of faith, ideaology and theology, the LDS church didn't do itself nor its members any favors by teaching a highly curated and streamlined version of its early history. There were A LOT of things very conveniently left out. As an example: as a young man i can remember being taught that polygamy was revealed to Joseph Smith but he never practiced it. Come to find out he had up to 38 wives - that we know of - with the youngest at 14 years of age. My contention isn't necessarily that he practiced polygamy, but that the church passively and actively concealed it just like other unsavory bits of church history. Today, the church freely admits all these details about Joseph and polygamy but only after being forced to do so because of mass disaffection and exodus. Last i heard, only 27% of adult Y generation are active - but i don't have a reference for that. The disillusionment comes from people feeling they were lied to. In the 21st century, "informed consent" is becoming more and more an essential thing from a legal aspect. People are being culturally indoctrinated to always read the fine print. Increasingly, people want to know everything they are getting into, before they agree to do something and/or all liabilities they may assume. There's less and less room for entities in modern society, whether they are religious or not, that do not give you the full scoop. The way the church has traditionally operated on a secretive milk before the meat approach to doctrine, is less suitable for modern consumption. If you bought a home and you found out there were all kinds of MAJOR issues the seller did not disclose in the formal disclosure, that is law suit stuff. It's perfectly fine the LDS church wants to maintain its secretive approach. (i know.....sacred not secret) They are well within their right to practice religion as they want and the way they traditionally have done it. Just don't be surprised when modern pro-truth and pro-disclosure people leave in droves. I'm not saying anything the church already doesn't know. They commissioned a study/survey about 8 years ago on why people are leaving in high numbers. This report was presented and read at the highest level. It really comes down to a fracture of trust. If you conveniently never told me something important or actively tried to water something down and i caught you, how can i ever trust anything you have to say ever again. A disaffected friend once told me, "finding out all these things and the way i found the out (gospel essays) is like turning 18 and my parents come to me and say, you are not out child. You were adopted. My entire world view would be turned upside down. I wouldn't know what to think anymore and couldn't trust anything else they had to say." One of the recommendations in the report for remedying the situation is inoculation. The church knows it has lost a good portion of the X-gen and a major portion of the Y-gen. Today, they are actively innoculating the youth of the Z-gen. They're trying to be more transparent. But........and this is just my opinion.......why does an organization, whose foundation is about truth and prides itself on truth, need to be transparent? Everything should've been transparent from the beginning. There a lot of things kept secret that had nothing to so with sacredness. All i know, rudimentary speaking, when secrets are kept in a relationship......things will go toxic and sour.
yeah, and also the fact that Smith (who was a Freemason, which is well and good) RIPPED OFF ALL THE FREEMASON RITUALS from his Lodge and called it LDS temple worship. The symbols and rituals are all the same-- from the robes to the aprons to the handshakes to the raising arms. LDS temple garments LITERALLY bear the Masonic symbols of the Square and Compass LMAO. So yeah, Mormon temples aren't really churches but Freemason Lodges, and the tithes the members pay are actually Freemason membership fees. No wonder so many people call Mormons "a cult," though that's unfair to the Masons, who are a legit organization. If the Judeo-Christian God does actually exist, then I bet you my everlasting soul that He sent Smith straight to Hell for not only bastardizing Jesus' legacy, but also doing it so BADLY. lol Freemasons? okayyyy. That's the thing with people though-- instead of USING their OWN brains that God GIFTED to them to be used, they'd rather blindly follow conmen and liars who claim to have some secret knowledge or magical powers or a secret handshake that'll get ya into heaven.
My reply to all of this deception, so called, is: How come you didn't investigate this before, during, or afterward? Oh, I get it. It would have disrupted your video game time, social circle, job, career, sports, NFL, and a host other things, all when you should have been investigating, praying, seeking faith, reading your scriptures, and serving others. Worldly pursuits aren't all of a sudden going to disappear when you were thrown a crust of information that challenges all the hours spent on worldly pursuits because you thought being a part of Christ's kingdom was just signing a document and getting dunked in the water. Not going to take you far, unless, of course, the video game has a waterfall in it, or something that gets your attention for a moment, or something.
@@robertandersen6387 not sure what you're talking about man. Before ,during, after what? Baptism as an 8 year old? You're all over the place. Not sure what you're getting at. What's you're hang-up with video games. I haven't played video games since 1991 when our NES system gave out.
Have you ever considered that the church didnt find those things unsavory or to be a big deal? I know when I was converting, I didnt think any of that was a big deal. Maybe they werent hiding anything. Maybe it just didnt seem important.
@@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim those symbols and hand gestures are found in every ancient society in the world. You can find runes 3000 years old in egypt and india with the temple rites on them. It doesnt have much to do with free masonry.
When I see people like this, I wonder why they never had the powerful spiritual experiences that I've had, confirming overwhelmingly that the Church is true? I am an Independent Witness.
Why do you think they didn't get the "powerful spiritual experiences that YOU had". The Church leaders hide the truths and that is why you think the Church is true. How arrogant! There are 4000 churches out there that many good people worship and the arrogant ones claim to have the truth of everything. Maybe you need to get out of the bubble and have guts to at least read the CES letter without looking at all the other false claims.
A Warning Revelation 22: 18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. As it is written. Let it be done. Anyone Writing his own version of Christ’s Gospel is an Apostate, period!
Anything added to the gospel huh? Well let’s look back to the words of Christ and send me a scripture that says to follow a man who is taught a gospel he learns from an angel. Thanks I need the help.
What book? The words of the Prophecy contained, "IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION"! Don't misquote scripture and twist its meaning providing your false interpretation. Duteranomy says the same thing but the Lord didn't make that his last book. John was referring to his book and his prophecies contained in it. The Bible didn't even exist at the time so to use the specifically limited reference to his works as a standard to bar any additional revelation from God is both foolish and a gross misinterpretation of Johns statement. The scriptures are of no private interpretation but uninspired men through every age have claimed to speak for God only to look the fool! God is a living God and his words and works never end! John said himself that he supposed if all of Christ's works were written, and they are, the world could not contain the number of books written. You will surely argue that we should not believe any other gospel preached even it it be by an angel? What if it isn't another Gospel or a different Gospel but the exact same Gospel? Did not Abraham, Isaac and Jacob see angels? What of Daniel, Ezekiel and Isaiah? What of Mary and Joesph, the and countless others who recieved visitation from Angels? God uses them to deliver the word or the Gospel to his children. True there are false prophets, devils and false Christ's but there is a true Messiah and he delivers his words through angelic administration to true prophets. There are real Prophets on earth today who communicate directly with God. They are presiding over the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
@@Sayheybrother8 Um, didn't Abraham, Moses and even John the revelator recieve instruction from angels? John tried to worship his messenger and was rebuked! So obviously it wasn't the Lord directly revealing what he asked John to write in the record we know as the book of Revelations! It was a servant of the Most High or in other words an Angel sent from the presence of God. Didn't Gabriel appear to Daniel, Mary and Elizabeth to deliver a message or the good news? If an angel gives you a false gospel the by all means reject it. However if a true Angel gives you revelation that is in line with what we have already recieved and preaches THE SAME GOSPLE, you better listen and follow or be damned. John didn't say not to add to or take away from the gosple but the words of his prophecies contained in the book of Revelations. Angels aren't just cute, mystic unknown creatures. They are Men who hold the Holy Priesthood of God and are specifically sent from God's Holy presence to deliver important messages, reveal the gospel anew after periods of apostasy among men and introduce new doctrine or Higher laws as fast as Gods children can prepare themselves to recieve them. Angels are Phrophets who have lived or will live on the earth and have the Keys of the Ministry to deliver the ordinances and revealed word of God with power and authority, commissioned directly by Christ. Anyone else who claims to speak for God and has not recievec their commission Directly from Christ or his Angelic Ministers are false teachers and should be avoided.
@@darrisellis8810 ~ If Mormonism is true, then the bible is false. If the bible is true, then Mormonism is false. ~ You can't have it both ways because the Mormon books contradict the word of God. The Old Testament had a priesthood, an altar and sacrifices which were only anticipatory shadows of the final sacrifice that would come with Christ. He came, He offered that sacrifice and God punctuated that ONE sacrifice by destroying the temple, using the Romans to do it in 70AD. By destroying the altars, thus smashing the entire sacrificial system of the Old Testament and all the records of all the genealogies of all those in the priestly line, thus ending permanently the priesthood. There are no more sacrifices, there are no more altars and there are no more priests as a special order to offer sacrifices. It all came to an end at the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and any sacrifices being made today are unbiblical and unable to accomplish anything. Any priests today are false claimants to a special priesthood, We are all now priests-a part of a Royal Priesthood. We need no mediator because we all have immediate access to God. In spite of that, false religions have devised priesthoods. They have reestablished what God Himself destroyed. It is a variation of the Levitical priesthood, an illegitimate variation because it’s mingled with cultic, pagan mystery and idolatry. Hebrews 7:26-28 (NASB) 26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens; 27 who has no daily need, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because He did this ONCE for all time when He offered up Himself. 28 For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, who has been made perfect forever. Hebrews 9:11-12 (NASB) 11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things having come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made by hands, that is, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place ONCE for all time, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:24-28 (NASB) 24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made by hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Holy Place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And just as it is destined for people to die ONCE, and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered ONCE to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 10:10 (NASB) 10 By this will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all time. 11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered ONE sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,
@@rickdavis2235 Much of the Bible is incorrect but you already know that! You also know that the scriptures aren't open to individual interpretation to fit your narrative! You have no Authority to speak for Christ. You have not the Truth, The Holy Ghost or the ratifying power of the spirit isn't in your words. Nash your teeth all you want. There is no power or truth in your words. The spirit cannot abide in you. You are not only not a Prophet but are severed from the priesthood. You posses nothing of value in the way of light and knowledge. Rant if you will, lie if you must but don't waste your time! I know God and Christ! I know by divine, personal, individual revelation that Joseph Smith IS A PROPHET. The Book of Mormon IS TRUE and the Bible also INSOFAR AS ITS TRANSLATED CORRECTLY! Both are witnesses of Christ! The only light you posses is darkness. I walk in the Light of the Lord. You cannot shake a firm foundation and i don't merely believe but know independently, firsthand that Joseph was a Prophet! I'm past belief or faith. As someone who knows with a perfect knowledge peddle your lies to someone else!
And why does Bill think his local leaders would know the intricacies of lds history? If he really wanted answers, why didn't he book himself a flight to Utah, rent a car and drive out to BYU? They have some of the best apologetic minds in the church. We have historians, professors of scripture, archeologists, anthropologists, geologists and so forth. Daniel C. Peterson, Bob Millet and many others I'm sure would be willing to help. I converted to the Church at 18, in 1971. At 19 I went on a mission. I've read numerous anti-Mormon books and had a good friend who left the church, and he absolutely _despised_ the church! It's as if they can't leave the church alone. I attended part of a Sunstone conference once and every single speaker blistered the church. News came of the excommunication of one of the speakers on the same day he spoke out against it, then he cried like a baby on hearing the news! Many in the church, including myself, are history geeks, and we're still here. If he speaks out against the church with vitriol and loathing, what does he expect? There's a well known Jew on RUclips who preaches and teaches against first century Christianity, and many Christians eat his stuff up. The apostle Paul is a frequent target of his. The problem comes when you disrespect the Lord's anointed. To call an apostle a liar, in this dispensation or the last, is unconscionable. Don't do it! If you can't abide by that, then sorry, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out! But if he is a history buff, he should know the remarks of Heber C. Kimball wherein he said: “There will also be a day when you will be brought to the test - when your very hearts and your inmost souls will melt within you because of the scenes that many of you will witness. Yes, you will be brought to that test, when you will feel as if every thing within you would dissolve. Then will be the time you will be tried whether you will stand the test or fall away.” (Remarks by President Heber C. Kimball, Delivered in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake City, Sunday Morning, August 16, 1857) He also said, “This Church has before it many close places through which it will have to pass before the work of God is crowned with glory. The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess a personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got this testimony, you must live right and call upon the Lord, and cease not until you obtain it. Remember these sayings: The time will come when no man or woman will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the light within themselves. If you do not have the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, how can you stand?” (Heber C. Kimball, First Counselor in the First Presidency, May 1868) The light he's speaking of is the light one gets while on one's knees, not one's knowledge of church history. I sincerely hope that Bill rethinks his position regarding his church. When he was a bishop, I can't believe he never received revelation, and if he did, what would have been his counsel to someone like himself?
Good job, Bill, except for wanting to stay a Mormon. It makes absolutely no sense to “discipline” someone for a belief or lack of belief in anything. Hey, Fifth Grade Johnny, five lashes for not believing what I told you about Fifth Grade being god’s one and only true grade on the face of Utah, and denying that you could fly when I told you to jump off the cliff without a parachute.
That's why we should lean on the arm of flesh!!! I think we all need to gain a testimony through the Holy Ghost.
Holy Ghost is no different than the Spirit of Christ..... Those that claim to have the Holy Ghost got it when you they were ONLY 8 years old! In adult hood it is a " Holier than Thou" mentality because they made it and got it at their earlier years of upbringing. So wrong!. Mormons do that well. Been there and done that.
What I'm talking about is seeking an answer to a question, like is the church true and receiving a confirmation from the Holy Ghost. James 1:5 If any man lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all men liberally and upbraideth not and it shall be given him. That way there is no need for intellectual discussions. @@tamimorgan8903
The church does demand silence!
If you don’t believe in a church and what it teaches or how it’s organized, why not just find another church. Thats what people of other religions do … this feels like attention seeking.
What's not said here is why? Bill, is a history geek, and knows a lot about the Mormon church, and when he found out things weren't being represented honestly, he asked the church, including his local leaders, and stake president, about these matters... because well, being honest is crucial to finding any truth, and his local leaders, and those who are in charge at church headquarters basically had, "no answers", to his questions.... if anyone dares to question those in authority.
in other words, Bill was onto them, so they had to kick him out. Knowledge is power, while faith is blind.
I'm a history geek myself, but I'm still active in the church.
I've listened to some of his podcasts, and it's clear that he is also agenda driven and will distort the history to fit his agenda. For example, the recording he published at his trial, he makes multiple claims about church history such as Joseph Fielding Smith trying to hide the 1832 first vision account by cutting it out only to tape it back in years later. Why if Joseph Fielding Smith wanted to hide it, wouldn't he have simply burnt it? He didn't. So reading Joseph Fielding Smith's intentions one way is problematic.
By the way, nobody ever points this out, but the earliest first vision account is actually in Section 20 verse 5, very brief. Full details of even the transfiguration have not been made public.
Why does everyone question church history, and the morality of Joseph Smith's polygamy always has to be pro LGBTQ? The Bible alone teaches that the LGBTQ lifestyle is ungodly. Polygamy, on the other hand, is not treated in a negative light.
Right.
As I said, why did he think his local leaders were qualified to answer his questions. FAIRLDS is there to answer questions.
Daniel Peterson is a great resource in the church. Bill should have contacted him.
As an outsider I felt ex-Mormons could not see the forest for the trees.
I recently found his podcast and he enjoys making fun of the church and laughs at many church things...so saying he wants to be a member does not ring true to me at all...anyways i figured him out and stopped watching because all he does is try to pull the church down.
Once he said "at every turn" I realized he is AT MINIMUM a man of hyperbole. Does the Church have problems? Yes, it does. It likely always will. So do I, and I enjoy the fact that the Church doesn't go out of its way to humiliate me - seems like I ought to give it the same treatment.
These guys that "just want to talk about the truth" usually have far more in mind. What they really want is to broadcast negative speculation, second hand accounts and the wrongdoings of former church leaders. Is the Church shy about its past? Yes it is. I'm shy about my own. Fair is fair.
The insinuation in both of your comments is “if a church member talks about or highlights a negative aspect of the church or its history, they must have nefarious intentions”. Have you considered that maybe they do not want to pull the church down - rather, they want the negative aspects of the church addressed and corrected for to make the church better and stronger?
The problem is that you believe that anyone saying anything negative is “anti-Mormon” or otherwise trying to take the church down. It may be worth being more charitable to their POV and look inwards for what parts of the church make people so keen to criticize it.
The Church of Jesus Christ is restored in its fulness and its true. Any man can think as they wish but when you speak against God and his Prophets amen to the loss of your power and authority. I to have had many questions and concerns but I know where i stand because I recieved a witness from God of the divinity of this latter day work. If there are questions I cant awnser or concerns I cant resolve I don't let it undermine my entire foundation! How foolish many will feel when they realize what they have thrown away because they got hung up on a small thing they couldn't reconcile because of Lucifers ability to blind them to the truth.
Darris Ellis
"...I know where i stand because I recieved a witness from God of the divinity of this latter day work. If there are questions I cant awnser or concerns I cant resolve I don't let it undermine my entire foundation!"
Deuteronomy 11:16
Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Proverbs 28:26
He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Moroni 10:4
“And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are NOT TRUE.”
Jesus didn’t say to pray to see if something is true. He said to search the scripture and when He said scriptures, He meant the bible. When you study the Book of Mormon and find false teachings, it doesn’t make any sense to pray to see if it’s true. Moroni also didn't say to ask God if the Book of Mormon is true. It says to ask God if the Book of Mormon is NOT TRUE. How many Mormons have prayed, believing the Holy Spirit told them the book is true when the Holy Spirit actually told them it was NOT TRUE. When you toss out the word of God and turn to other sources for truth, you are vulnerable to belieing anything. You have ignored all of the warnings that God gave us in both the Old and New Testament and your fate is hell if you continue worshipping men.
@@rickdavis2235 Rick, your right! You know where you stand! You truly know you have committed the unpardonable sin and denied the Holy Ghost! As a result you have subjected yourself to the father of lies and are possessed with a lying spirit! You can twist and mutilate the scriptures all you want! Lucifer does the same. I will not entertain or dignify your folly with a point by point reply because YOU KNOW you once knew and YOU KNOW you turned your back on Christ! You know it and you know God knows it! I will not entertain the Spirit of Apostasy and rebellion!
@@darrisellis8810
"I will not entertain the Spirit of Apostasy and rebellion!"
You already have. You don't know the bible because you wouldn't be a Mormon if you did. You are spiritually discerned and prideful. The word of God says you will perish in hell. You brought up Lucifer. His favorite tool for separating men from God is man-made religions that boast of their good works and worship their church.
Christ is not a created being. The Jesus you worship is not God. Jesus of the bible is the one and only eternal God. That's what every Christian believes. That's Christianity. While you are trying to work your way to heaven, Jesus has already done it but you are blinded by Satan and unless you repent, you'll perish in the lake of fire. He cannot change the truth but he doesn't need to. He just needs to keep it from you, which he has been very successful at doing.
@@rickdavis2235 I read the Bible daily Bro and have both the Priesthood of God and the Holy Spirit. You have neither! Without the Holy Ghost you cannot even begin to comprehend the written word. Is an Apostle a Prophet? Yes! So to illustrate in only one case your inability to understand scripture and to prove you don't know what your talking about we will use this one point you have misinterpreted! When Judas committed suicide who replaced him in the twelve? I thought Christ was THE LAST PROPHET? Who replaced Stephen when he was stoned to death? Who are the two prophets to be raised up to Jerusalem that will lie in the streets for 3 days after holding the armies of Lucifer at bay for 3.5 years? Who is the rod of Jessie? I thought God was the same yesterday, today and forever but apparently he only used Prophets to warn and lead the people until Christ! That would also make him a changeable God and a liar because of Amos 3:7! God does nothing that he doesn't reveal to his servants the prophets in order to warn and direct both his work and to preserve the righteous remnant. Christ is not the last Prophet but is and was the First and the Last or in other words Alpha and Omega and any true doctrine has its beginning and end in him! He IS the last and final word on any issue, doctrine and principle because everything has its beginning and end in him. That is a completely seperate issue. Moses said "would to God you/we were all Prophets"! No man can declare Jesus is the Christ but by the spirit of Prophecy therfore your interpretation would infact destroy the entire ministry of preaching the word to bring souls to Christ! I know you think your a cheeky, clever defender of the faith but until you accept the Book of Mormon which is the urim and Thummim, metaphorically speaking, to correctly decipher the Biblical text you will chase your tale until you entirely abandon your faith for your foundation is built upon sand.
@Darris Ellis
DARRIS ELLIS: "I read the Bible daily Bro and have both the Priesthood of God and the Holy Spirit. You have neither! Without the Holy Ghost you cannot even begin to comprehend the written word. "
What do you read? Proof-texted verses? I challenge you to study the entire Bible. Start with the Book of John and learn who the real Jesus Christ is because He is God Almighty. He is the creator of everything. He is the savior that was promised in the very first book of the bible. The Holy Spirit does not dwell in those who deny that Christ is the one and only eternal God. Try studying the bible as a small child would, without presuppositions when viewed through Mormon lenses. No intelligent person would every come to believe that Mormonism is true if they truly know the bible.
DARRIS ELLIS: "Is an Apostle a Prophet? Yes!"
No! An apostle and prophet are two different things. Apostle means "one who is sent out" to spread the gospel. Apostles are not present in the church today. The qualifications of this type of apostle were:
1. to have been a witness of the resurrected Christ (1 Corinthians 9:1)
2. to have been explicitly chosen by the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:15)
3. to have the ability to perform signs and wonders (Acts 2:43; 2 Corinthians 12:12).
The responsibility of the twelve apostles, laying the foundation of the church, would also argue for their uniqueness. Two thousand years later, we are not still working on the foundation.
DARRIS ELLIS: "When Judas committed suicide who replaced him in the twelve?"
The 11 disciples proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (possibly the same person as Barnabas), and Matthias (Acts 1:23). The 11 disciples then prayed for the Lord’s direction (Acts 1:24-25), and then cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias (Acts 1:26).
DARRIS ELLIS: "I thought Christ was THE LAST PROPHET?"
Christ is the last prophet but Christ is not a mortal man like the other prophets so that made John the last in that sense. Do you believe that Christ lied again when He said John was the last prophet? The Christ is Yahweh and Yahweh is Almighty God, and you can read it for youself in scripture that I'll provide in a separate post.
DARRIS ELLIS: "Who are the two prophets to be raised up to Jerusalem that will lie in the streets for 3 days after holding the armies of Lucifer at bay for 3.5 years?
DARRIS ELLIS: "Who is the rod of Jessie?"
The root of Jesse is a metaphor found in Isaiah 11:10: “In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.” The term root of Jesse figuratively stands for the Messiah.
DARRIS ELLIS: "I thought God was the same yesterday, today and forever but apparently he only used Prophets to warn and lead the people until Christ! That would also make him a changeable God and a liar because of Amos 3:7!"
God didn't lie. You have just exposed your lack of knowledge of the Bible. Why would God use prophets to lead us when God Himself became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14)? You don't understand who Jesus is because you've been led to believe because, according to you, he is no different than you or anyone else. He's just one of many exalted men but that's not the what the Bible says and that's why you're not saved. Believing in Jesus isn't what saves us. Believing in the true Jesus does. God now speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. He is the Helper that Jesus promised the disciples when He told them He was going to the Father. The Holy Spirit is what leads us now. Why do you need a prophet to tell you what the Holy Spirit is saying if you have the Holy Spirit?
DARRIS ELLIS: "Christ is not the last Prophet but is and was the First and the Last or in other words Alpha and Omega and any true doctrine has its beginning and end in him! He IS the last and final word on any issue, doctrine and principle because everything has its beginning and end in him. That is a completely seperate issue."
DARRIS ELLIS: " Moses said "would to God you/we were all Prophets"! No man can declare Jesus is the Christ but by the spirit of Prophecy therfore your interpretation would infact destroy the entire ministry of preaching the word to bring souls to Christ!"
You are proof-texting again. Numbers is God speaking to the Israelites, who were under the old covenant of the law. We are no longer under the old covenant. We are now under the new covenant of grace that was ushered in my Jesus on the cross. No man will be justified by the laws of the old covenant. If the old covenant could give anyone eternal life, then Jesus died for nothing. The law was merely to point out our sinfulness and show us why we need a savior.
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
If you want to work your way to heaven by keeping the law, I think you should know that there are 613 commandments that God gave to the Israelites to keep. There's something you knew nothing about. They are called the Mitzvot. How is that going for you?
You assume a lot. I don't think I"m a cheeky defender of the faith. I am "thoroughly equipped for every good work" by the God-breathed word of God as defined in 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Show me in the Book of Mormon or Pearl of Great Price where you can become a god or that God used to be a man.
Show me in history where there was a great apostasy. The evidence exists only in your indoctrinate mind.
Have we seen this story before? In the moment they are leaving, they talk about how much this 'tribe' means to them, how everything about "Mormonism' is a part of their very being, except, except, except, 'Oh, I really can't go along with their doctrine.' This doesn't make any sense. The doctrine? How can you miss out on the doctrine if you truly investigated it and 'converted' to it? (2nd Nephi 27:35) "They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine." If he is seeking the truth, there is a promise associated with that search from Jesus.
I embraced the LDS church four years ago. My parents were LDS as was my great great great grandmother. Never have I heard them utter a single word that made me question my faith. Are we perfect? No One Is. Faith is not so much about the church. It is about the person. How you live your life and your Relationship with our Heavenly Father. It is for everyone. Absolutely Not and neither is Catholic, Judaism, Pentecost or any other church. It is Your Relationship with God. Maybe one of these days People will realize the faith you follow does not make you eligible for the privilege of entering God's House....It is how you Live and Treat your Faith and Others People. Not because you are LDS, Catholic, Jewish or Protestant. It is Your Relationship with God. No Man or the Church and the beliefs.
Yet to meet a latter day saint who wants to leave the church say it is because the Holy Ghost told them to do so. Always some academic reason or some complaint about what the church teachers, which incidentally the church has always taught, or what some academic says historically happened, as though they were there to know what actually is the truth of a matter. God knows all the truth of all the ages of His creation so if you want to know the truth ask Him, that is what He personally told me to do 40 odd years ago before I had even heard of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. When I did find out about it I got on my knees in my lounge in Northampton, England, and asked Heavenly Father if He and Jesus had personally spoken to Joseph Smith and directed him what to do. Clear answer as the peaceful Holy Spirit told me personally these things were what had actually happened. An answer from God is good enough for me. I am thankful for Jesus being my Saviour. Hope to see you on the other side.
I never met a good return missionary lose his testimony. I say good because some should have stayed home. On my mission I witnessed the power of the truth change lives for the better
You used a fallacy, “One True Scotsman!” Staying ignorant isn’t a virtue! Do your own independent, unbiased research! If anyone tells you not to look they are hiding something! Besides Mormonism is demonstrably false, but hey all religions are!
All the men in my family were the best returned missionaries with the strongest testimonies I’ve ever seen. Then they researched and discovered the truth in the history. And all the hidden lies. They were devastated as they dedicated their entire worlds to this church and money and spent time trying to bring people in. One friend I know had to call all of his converts because he felt so bad that he lead them into a false religion.
Oh man! I haven’t heard that one for a while. Thanks for the reminder of how the church can take away even the things you’ve done for them and count it as nothing.
@@dekishajones282 *DO YOU HAVE A RUDE AWAKENING,COMING YOUR WAY* ~Peace~
@@winddancer8516 Pascal’s wager is an old and tired defense of your sky daddy! Besides pascal wager applies to you too! How petty of your sky daddy to be mad at me because “his” holy book is bs and poorly written and full of contradictions
Sounds tricky for him. Wish him well, and hope the Lord leads you back someday! :)
Back to the lds church or back to a true faith in Jesus Christ? Yes there is a difference
We wish Ghislane Maxwell well
Didn't happen yet. 🤣
Sad his family would leave the church because of that. I wouldn't let him get in my way of anything
I’m sorry what now?
Because tearing apart a family over an excommunication is best for everyone right... I think that’s how cults work
I’m really surprised that he is still committed to the church
It can happen to any member of any church when you choose to apostatize from the teachings of the church he or she belongs to.
It might have happened to over 15 million people who’ve followed a MAN who received a gospel taught by an angel seen in a dream/vision. The navy that will be deceived is hard to imagine.
Yeah Ok, John Smith and Chad Daybell people. You tell us
Elena, #1 Bernie Bro I agree they too are teaching a gospel taught by an angel of light.
Tee Eye you know that’s an imaginary number , apostasy happens in small numbers always and some of them leave their church but sadly can’t leave the church alone!!
LUIS P well I haven’t left the church but it seems like those who give 10% of their income and a whole lotta time and their trust should be given a bit of grace if they want to prod the church when it seems their efforts for years may have been in vain. Do you think they should just walk away with their head hung low and tail between their legs for being taken advantage of?
I gave up on Bill Reel years ago, not because he questioned Mormonsim, but because I have better things to do than listen to skeptics pull down peoples beliefs. I wish him well.
No you don't
Typical.
I also wish him well. Its a personal journey. You don't need to follow a duck to water. Walk your path and quit announcing to all what you decisions are like a town crier...for what...no one cares..
its all fake but I want it?
Do they kick out his whole family? He is the male and the priesthood leader of his family. Everyone in his family is sealed to him in their temple. If he gets kicked out, since everyone one in the family is connected to him, does that mean his whole family will be kicked out too?
No it doesn't mean they all get kicked out. If They are all sealed and he is excommunicated only his sealing is null and void. Through the grace of Christ and his atonement the sealing is still valid for his wife and children. Unless his wife chooses to leave and then hers are void. The Childrens will remain intact until they come of age and choose for themselves.
@@darrisellis8810 Thanks Darris. But his wife and children are sealed to him, but you are saying that due to Christ and his atonement that somehow the chain of sealment doesn't matter anymore.
@@johannasteinbrecher7004 I'm a lifelong member who was sealed in the Temple and after 14 years of Marriage my wife was no longer interested in me being a part of the picture. We were divorced civily but she pursued a Sealing cancelation so you would think that that would break the link that ties the kids together also. God is merciful and that isn't how it works. Each adult, Male or Female recieves their individual Endowment and is sealed to God. Then we are sealed in a three way covenant with Him. If either the husband or wife are unfaithful to thier spouse or God the other still has a link through their endowment or individual covenants. If both are unfaithful then the link that "was" in place has already automatically bound the children born under that covenant to God and it can't be nullified for the Children until they become of age and choose for themselves to follow or reject God. I had similar concerns when my former spouse recieved approval for a sealing cancelation. I was assured that I'm still bound to the Father through my individual Endowment and the kids through the birthright blessing of being born under the Covenant that was in effect when they were born. The Catholic Church use to teach and may still teach that children that die in infancy before there able to be baptized go to hell or purgatory for eternity. What kind of an unjust un-mercifull God would punish innocent Children because of the sins of their parents? We know that children who die before the age of accountability, which is 8yrs of age, before recieving baptism are recieved into God's presence because of the blood of Christ. The innocent need no repentance and Christ asks us to humble ourselves as little children. Why? Because its their innocence and childlike nature that makes them able to enter his presence. In the same sense God won't punish the innocent children born to those who don't abide within their covenants. Where there is no law their cannot be accountability and the pure mercies of Christ lay hold to the victims in relation to the violations of the laws thier parents are bound by. Abrahams Fathers were unfaithful but Abraham became the possessor of the New and Everlasting covenant. How, if his Father, grandfather and Great Grandfather had all turned from God? We are not judged or punished for the sins of others but by our own sins.
@@johannasteinbrecher7004 Well I hope you will continue to ponder upon the teachings of our faith and hope that as you pray for guidance you will recieve a witness from God of the divinity of the latter day work. Our time to prepare is running out and the Prophet has warned that we are at a time when the only thing that will protect us is our faith and covenants which bind us to God and secure his protection. If you sincerely desire a witness directly from Him and will sacrifice whatever it takes to get it i promise you he will not only let you know he has restored his gosple, church and authority to the earth but he will open your mind and quicken your intellect so that you will know not only these truths but that He is the one telling you. In other words you will know that it is God that has revealed it to you. He will manifest not just the truth of what he has restored but he will impress upon your soul in an unmistakable way that it is truly divine revelation your receiving and you will know undisputably that it was God who witnessed it to you. You will know him because he will have literally made himself manifest to you in a way you could never deny without knowing you will offend him and bring upon yourself condemnation. With such a witness you will have the courage to accept your new found faith and enter the waters of baptism where you can bind yourself to God under his authorized representatives making valid the ordinance that secures you his blessings in this life AND IN ETERNITY. I don't know your background or your Faith but if you ever need clarification or have additional questions please feel free to reach out. I will tell you that we are very close to the return of the Messiah and the time to repent and seek the Lord is closing. The times of the Gentiles is fulfilled and the Judgement of God is about to overtake the world. All the best to you Sister. May Gods love and protection be over you and your family.
@@darrisellis8810 Thank you Darris, I appreciate your kind words.
So just like the Jdubs the Mormons rip families apart
Nothing new here. Things like this have happened before and they will continue to happen. Just the same, I wish him well.
Another good person lost to the Mormon church. Go Bill! 💜
Excommunication is a small price to pay for authenticity and living one's own truth.
One interesting thing to notice from throughout Church history, is that there is not a single person who has ever fallen away from the Church that didn't FIRST stop feasting on the Latter-day scriptures on a daily basis. Not one single instance.
Warren Jeffs?
What do you say to someone like me who was born and raised a member, but it was only once I began “feasting on the Latter-day scriptures” during my mission and early twenties that my testimony faltered? I am a fully non-believing ex-Latter day Saint who still studies LDS scripture quite often as I find it fascinating, but I don’t believe.
Or do you just think I’m a liar because I don’t fit into the mold of what you believe someone who would leave your religion would be?
@@michaeltheiii more like that scripture in Alma that teaches those who harden their heart, to them is given the lesser portions of the word until they know nothing at all and then they are taken captive by the devil and led by his will down to destruction. Here comes the "irk" response.
I am so confused, what church can kick somebody out? I’m methodist and like wth Mormons
A young Bill Reel. 😊
I am a firm believer in the teachings of Jefferson, that an individual's thoughts and beliefs are a sacred thing, no matter what it is they believe. Respecting that is the hallmark of america. Which is why i won't tear down others' faith. So if you believe God is a man in physical form in flesh and bone and lives on planet (perhaps with his polygamous wives) on a planet near a star called Kolob, great!!!!! Believe in whatever you want to believe. I have no issue with that. But irrespective of faith, ideaology and theology, the LDS church didn't do itself nor its members any favors by teaching a highly curated and streamlined version of its early history. There were A LOT of things very conveniently left out. As an example: as a young man i can remember being taught that polygamy was revealed to Joseph Smith but he never practiced it. Come to find out he had up to 38 wives - that we know of - with the youngest at 14 years of age. My contention isn't necessarily that he practiced polygamy, but that the church passively and actively concealed it just like other unsavory bits of church history. Today, the church freely admits all these details about Joseph and polygamy but only after being forced to do so because of mass disaffection and exodus. Last i heard, only 27% of adult Y generation are active - but i don't have a reference for that. The disillusionment comes from people feeling they were lied to. In the 21st century, "informed consent" is becoming more and more an essential thing from a legal aspect. People are being culturally indoctrinated to always read the fine print. Increasingly, people want to know everything they are getting into, before they agree to do something and/or all liabilities they may assume. There's less and less room for entities in modern society, whether they are religious or not, that do not give you the full scoop. The way the church has traditionally operated on a secretive milk before the meat approach to doctrine, is less suitable for modern consumption. If you bought a home and you found out there were all kinds of MAJOR issues the seller did not disclose in the formal disclosure, that is law suit stuff. It's perfectly fine the LDS church wants to maintain its secretive approach. (i know.....sacred not secret) They are well within their right to practice religion as they want and the way they traditionally have done it. Just don't be surprised when modern pro-truth and pro-disclosure people leave in droves. I'm not saying anything the church already doesn't know. They commissioned a study/survey about 8 years ago on why people are leaving in high numbers. This report was presented and read at the highest level. It really comes down to a fracture of trust. If you conveniently never told me something important or actively tried to water something down and i caught you, how can i ever trust anything you have to say ever again. A disaffected friend once told me, "finding out all these things and the way i found the out (gospel essays) is like turning 18 and my parents come to me and say, you are not out child. You were adopted. My entire world view would be turned upside down. I wouldn't know what to think anymore and couldn't trust anything else they had to say." One of the recommendations in the report for remedying the situation is inoculation. The church knows it has lost a good portion of the X-gen and a major portion of the Y-gen. Today, they are actively innoculating the youth of the Z-gen. They're trying to be more transparent. But........and this is just my opinion.......why does an organization, whose foundation is about truth and prides itself on truth, need to be transparent? Everything should've been transparent from the beginning. There a lot of things kept secret that had nothing to so with sacredness. All i know, rudimentary speaking, when secrets are kept in a relationship......things will go toxic and sour.
yeah, and also the fact that Smith (who was a Freemason, which is well and good) RIPPED OFF ALL THE FREEMASON RITUALS from his Lodge and called it LDS temple worship. The symbols and rituals are all the same-- from the robes to the aprons to the handshakes to the raising arms. LDS temple garments LITERALLY bear the Masonic symbols of the Square and Compass LMAO.
So yeah, Mormon temples aren't really churches but Freemason Lodges, and the tithes the members pay are actually Freemason membership fees.
No wonder so many people call Mormons "a cult," though that's unfair to the Masons, who are a legit organization.
If the Judeo-Christian God does actually exist, then I bet you my everlasting soul that He sent Smith straight to Hell for not only bastardizing Jesus' legacy, but also doing it so BADLY. lol Freemasons? okayyyy.
That's the thing with people though-- instead of USING their OWN brains that God GIFTED to them to be used, they'd rather blindly follow conmen and liars who claim to have some secret knowledge or magical powers or a secret handshake that'll get ya into heaven.
My reply to all of this deception, so called, is: How come you didn't investigate this before, during, or afterward? Oh, I get it. It would have disrupted your video game time, social circle, job, career, sports, NFL, and a host other things, all when you should have been investigating, praying, seeking faith, reading your scriptures, and serving others. Worldly pursuits aren't all of a sudden going to disappear when you were thrown a crust of information that challenges all the hours spent on worldly pursuits because you thought being a part of Christ's kingdom was just signing a document and getting dunked in the water. Not going to take you far, unless, of course, the video game has a waterfall in it, or something that gets your attention for a moment, or something.
@@robertandersen6387 not sure what you're talking about man. Before ,during, after what? Baptism as an 8 year old? You're all over the place. Not sure what you're getting at. What's you're hang-up with video games. I haven't played video games since 1991 when our NES system gave out.
Have you ever considered that the church didnt find those things unsavory or to be a big deal? I know when I was converting, I didnt think any of that was a big deal. Maybe they werent hiding anything. Maybe it just didnt seem important.
@@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim those symbols and hand gestures are found in every ancient society in the world. You can find runes 3000 years old in egypt and india with the temple rites on them. It doesnt have much to do with free masonry.
I would never belong to a religion, that would have me as a member!
You have a choice. You can do whatever you want that brings you comfort. In every religion or not . YOU HAVE A CHOICE..
You’re just who we need!😅 Love the comment Woody Allen would be proud!
When I see people like this, I wonder why they never had the powerful spiritual experiences that I've had, confirming overwhelmingly that the Church is true? I am an Independent Witness.
Why do you think they didn't get the "powerful spiritual experiences that YOU had". The Church leaders hide the truths and that is why you think the Church is true. How arrogant! There are 4000 churches out there that many good people worship and the arrogant ones claim to have the truth of everything. Maybe you need to get out of the bubble and have guts to at least read the CES letter without looking at all the other false claims.
is this satire?
Because there are many truths mixed with lies.
Because God loves you more than other people...
Untrue
A Warning
Revelation 22:
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
As it is written. Let it be done. Anyone Writing his own version of Christ’s Gospel is an Apostate, period!
Anything added to the gospel huh? Well let’s look back to the words of Christ and send me a scripture that says to follow a man who is taught a gospel he learns from an angel. Thanks I need the help.
What book? The words of the Prophecy contained, "IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION"! Don't misquote scripture and twist its meaning providing your false interpretation. Duteranomy says the same thing but the Lord didn't make that his last book. John was referring to his book and his prophecies contained in it. The Bible didn't even exist at the time so to use the specifically limited reference to his works as a standard to bar any additional revelation from God is both foolish and a gross misinterpretation of Johns statement. The scriptures are of no private interpretation but uninspired men through every age have claimed to speak for God only to look the fool! God is a living God and his words and works never end! John said himself that he supposed if all of Christ's works were written, and they are, the world could not contain the number of books written. You will surely argue that we should not believe any other gospel preached even it it be by an angel? What if it isn't another Gospel or a different Gospel but the exact same Gospel? Did not Abraham, Isaac and Jacob see angels? What of Daniel, Ezekiel and Isaiah? What of Mary and Joesph, the and countless others who recieved visitation from Angels? God uses them to deliver the word or the Gospel to his children. True there are false prophets, devils and false Christ's but there is a true Messiah and he delivers his words through angelic administration to true prophets. There are real Prophets on earth today who communicate directly with God. They are presiding over the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
@@Sayheybrother8 Um, didn't Abraham, Moses and even John the revelator recieve instruction from angels? John tried to worship his messenger and was rebuked! So obviously it wasn't the Lord directly revealing what he asked John to write in the record we know as the book of Revelations! It was a servant of the Most High or in other words an Angel sent from the presence of God. Didn't Gabriel appear to Daniel, Mary and Elizabeth to deliver a message or the good news? If an angel gives you a false gospel the by all means reject it. However if a true Angel gives you revelation that is in line with what we have already recieved and preaches THE SAME GOSPLE, you better listen and follow or be damned. John didn't say not to add to or take away from the gosple but the words of his prophecies contained in the book of Revelations. Angels aren't just cute, mystic unknown creatures. They are Men who hold the Holy Priesthood of God and are specifically sent from God's Holy presence to deliver important messages, reveal the gospel anew after periods of apostasy among men and introduce new doctrine or Higher laws as fast as Gods children can prepare themselves to recieve them. Angels are Phrophets who have lived or will live on the earth and have the Keys of the Ministry to deliver the ordinances and revealed word of God with power and authority, commissioned directly by Christ. Anyone else who claims to speak for God and has not recievec their commission Directly from Christ or his Angelic Ministers are false teachers and should be avoided.
@@darrisellis8810
~ If Mormonism is true, then the bible is false.
If the bible is true, then Mormonism is false. ~
You can't have it both ways because the Mormon books contradict the word of God.
The Old Testament had a priesthood, an altar and sacrifices which were only anticipatory shadows of the final sacrifice that would come with Christ. He came, He offered that sacrifice and God punctuated that ONE sacrifice by destroying the temple, using the Romans to do it in 70AD. By destroying the altars, thus smashing the entire sacrificial system of the Old Testament and all the records of all the genealogies of all those in the priestly line, thus ending permanently the priesthood. There are no more sacrifices, there are no more altars and there are no more priests as a special order to offer sacrifices. It all came to an end at the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and any sacrifices being made today are unbiblical and unable to accomplish anything. Any priests today are false claimants to a special priesthood, We are all now priests-a part of a Royal Priesthood. We need no mediator because we all have immediate access to God.
In spite of that, false religions have devised priesthoods. They have reestablished what God Himself destroyed. It is a variation of the Levitical priesthood, an illegitimate variation because it’s mingled with cultic, pagan mystery and idolatry.
Hebrews 7:26-28 (NASB)
26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens; 27 who has no daily need, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because He did this ONCE for all time when He offered up Himself. 28 For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, who has been made perfect forever.
Hebrews 9:11-12 (NASB)
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things having come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made by hands, that is, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place ONCE for all time, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 9:24-28 (NASB)
24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made by hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Holy Place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And just as it is destined for people to die ONCE, and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered ONCE to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Hebrews 10:10 (NASB)
10 By this will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all time.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered ONE sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,
@@rickdavis2235 Much of the Bible is incorrect but you already know that! You also know that the scriptures aren't open to individual interpretation to fit your narrative! You have no Authority to speak for Christ. You have not the Truth, The Holy Ghost or the ratifying power of the spirit isn't in your words. Nash your teeth all you want. There is no power or truth in your words. The spirit cannot abide in you. You are not only not a Prophet but are severed from the priesthood. You posses nothing of value in the way of light and knowledge. Rant if you will, lie if you must but don't waste your time! I know God and Christ! I know by divine, personal, individual revelation that Joseph Smith IS A PROPHET. The Book of Mormon IS TRUE and the Bible also INSOFAR AS ITS TRANSLATED CORRECTLY! Both are witnesses of Christ! The only light you posses is darkness. I walk in the Light of the Lord. You cannot shake a firm foundation and i don't merely believe but know independently, firsthand that Joseph was a Prophet! I'm past belief or faith. As someone who knows with a perfect knowledge peddle your lies to someone else!
And why does Bill think his local leaders would know the intricacies of lds history? If he really wanted answers, why didn't he book himself a flight to Utah, rent a car and drive out to BYU? They have some of the best apologetic minds in the church. We have historians, professors of scripture, archeologists, anthropologists, geologists and so forth. Daniel C. Peterson, Bob Millet and many others I'm sure would be willing to help.
I converted to the Church at 18, in 1971. At 19 I went on a mission. I've read numerous anti-Mormon books and had a good friend who left the church, and he absolutely _despised_ the church! It's as if they can't leave the church alone. I attended part of a Sunstone conference once and every single speaker blistered the church. News came of the excommunication of one of the speakers on the same day he spoke out against it, then he cried like a baby on hearing the news!
Many in the church, including myself, are history geeks, and we're still here. If he speaks out against the church with vitriol and loathing, what does he expect? There's a well known Jew on RUclips who preaches and teaches against first century Christianity, and many Christians eat his stuff up. The apostle Paul is a frequent target of his. The problem comes when you disrespect the Lord's anointed. To call an apostle a liar, in this dispensation or the last, is unconscionable. Don't do it! If you can't abide by that, then sorry, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!
But if he is a history buff, he should know the remarks of Heber C. Kimball wherein he said: “There will also be a day when you will be brought to the test - when your very hearts and your inmost souls will melt within you because of the scenes that many of you will witness. Yes, you will be brought to that test, when you will feel as if every thing within you would dissolve. Then will be the time you will be tried whether you will stand the test or fall away.” (Remarks by President Heber C. Kimball, Delivered in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake City, Sunday Morning, August 16, 1857)
He also said, “This Church has before it many close places through which it will have to pass before the work of God is crowned with glory. The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess a personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got this testimony, you must live right and call upon the Lord, and cease not until you obtain it. Remember these sayings: The time will come when no man or woman will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the light within themselves. If you do not have the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, how can you stand?” (Heber C. Kimball, First Counselor in the First Presidency, May 1868)
The light he's speaking of is the light one gets while on one's knees, not one's knowledge of church history. I sincerely hope that Bill rethinks his position regarding his church. When he was a bishop, I can't believe he never received revelation, and if he did, what would have been his counsel to someone like himself?
Why did he go to his local leaders? Because that’s what the church tells you to do when you’re a member and you have questions!!
FACTS DUDE, FACTS!!!!!
All you have to do is take the ring out of your nose, get out of the bubble and read. CES letter is a good one to start with.
Dude, Just go away.
He's still on RUclips. 🤣
Good job, Bill, except for wanting to stay a Mormon. It makes absolutely no sense to “discipline” someone for a belief or lack of belief in anything. Hey, Fifth Grade Johnny, five lashes for not believing what I told you about Fifth Grade being god’s one and only true grade on the face of Utah, and denying that you could fly when I told you to jump off the cliff without a parachute.