I was playing some casual KOTH nonsense the other day, when I got picked off by an ASP. I (perhaps redundantly) attempted a bit of team communication and spoke up to warn people that there was an ASP user near ____ location, so incoming fire might sound muted. Got a pair of guys laughing and telling me the ASP was a useless broken gun, and asking why the hell I'd report that. Followed by a few "WTF, ASP got me?" moments later. Was kinda funny. It's a prohibitively niche and tricky gun to use, but so many players simply don't understand it.
Yeah ikr, asp is deadly as fuck, once u used to it. When i was playing koth long time ago, i think its 2017, me and my team mates were doing insertion to Zaros map using hummingbird from direction of opfor base iirc, the landing zone is a forest surrounding the city. Once we landed, we were ambushed by two or three enemy infantry, the first enemy who attacked us was a marksman with ASP KIR, phew - phew, 3 or 4 of us down, and one of my teammate was saying "Silent Death" LOL.
Crafted a thoughtful and entertaining video despite despite my familiarity with the subject. Check Crafted a thoughtful and entertaining video that showed me I didn't know as much as I thought I did...again. Double Check
I love this rifle! I just finished a 2½ hour training session using it with ACE3s advanced ballistics on a scenario I made for this exact purpose. Getting 4-500 meter kill shots in the first shot with this thing feels like heaven after those 20-30 seconds of careful calculations and measurements. Up to about 250 meters, normal winds barely even affect the bullet, so most of the time I don't even need to bother with the Kestrel and I can just use the Vector 21 rangefinder and my range card. Such a nice reward for myself after spending 2 days painstakingly finding and noting down in a spreadsheet, the true zeros of every Vanilla, CUP and HLC gun that could mount an LRPS and isn't an SMG.
You know what'd be neat? Have the WA2000, or some spiritual successor that the CTRG threw together or something, and let it have either super or subsonic rounds, as well as the option of suppressor or no suppressor. The WA2000 is known for being very light yet accurate, with a very quiet report, even when unsuppressed. I feel like a subsonic/suppressorless build would be perfect for a scout sniper build that wants to be stealthy yet effective at range. The only downsides are that it's really expensive, far too expensive for any army to employ in general service, and that like the ASP, it doesn't bear the absolutely insane range of it's competitors, yet is outperformed in CQB and MRB by battle rifles and DMRs. It feels like a weapon that would be best in a DLC focused on specialists in stealth and/or urban missions, sort of like Apex, but if Tanoa had a slightly higher city/jungle ratio.
in the right hands this gun destroys in PvP. I use it with an SMG red dot, Kentucky the range and engage cqb. with the added bonus of bring way harder to detect. I love this gun and put it to good use regularly
SteelBadger13 Hmm I don't genereally dislike the ASP... And i loved stalker.... But i still can't figure out the connection... The AS VAL and VSS Vintorez didn't perform that different from the other guns, from what I remember...
AS VAL and the VSS Vintorez feature a sharp bullet drop because the 9x39mm rounds they fire IRL are heavy. And since they are subsonic rounds to boot they are slower. The ASP is basically the same thing. But in shortneck 12.7mm (which is a real round, the ASP is a real rifle, just that IRL its bullpup)
Thanks for this explanation Dslyecxi, it is very timely for me. Just yesterday I spent a frustrating couple of hours playing Rydygier's excellent MANW-winning Pilgrimage mission trying to engage an outpost from 500m away with a Kir and finding no joy. I was so frustrated I searched the forums to see if others felt this rifle was busted.
Find it funny how some RUclipsrs defend other well known RUclipsrs who claim this gun is broken due to them not knowing how to use it and claiming that it was the weapon system fault, EI Operatordrewski defending frankieonpc missing shots at 300m with this system. Thank you for making this well crafted video to show those who do not understand how to properly employ it the corrections that they need to perform to make it work for them!
KhanOnRUclips Gaming Channel iirc OperatorDrewski's vid said pretty much the same thing (the round is really slow because it is meant to be a stealth weapon so you need to very accurately zero the weapon) He never said the weapon was broken and in fact defended it
I prefer using this gun past 350 meters, because once you get past that range people don't hear the gun. Also once you get to ranges of 500 to 600 meters, that ballistic arc and be used to negate hard cover such as rocks and low walls. Because the round will go over the object and hit the target. Something i love doing and it really throws people off because they only hear the bullet impact and nearly all the cover they take rounds are still landing on them or their friends. This is a extremely powerful weapon but one that requires a lot of time and practice to get good with. Also this weapon requires you more then more to perform range checks and map your area. So if an enemy appears at say 'House A' you know that range and additional adjustments that are needed to get your first volley on target. And same if targets appear at other locations. But it has problems like it's weight, which effects your aim. Which isn't a problem if you're deployed well prone, but it's when you're in a town that this causes issues. Because like always you want to be hidden in the building and not on the window. And since the shoot stand in ACE 3 isn't in the stock game, you have to aim unsupported a lot of the time and deal with the extra sway and reduce follow up shot time. Not to mention it reduces your ability to reposition after engaging, but reduces your ability to move and keep going.
+John J I actually make my own range cards on a notepad so that I don't have to keep using the rangefinder if I'm not using a Nightstalker scope on it. lol That being said, I usually use the ASP-1 when I'm anticipating close quarters combat.
Actually, it's rather useful in urban environments if you keep a CQB scope that ranges to 100m stowed in your pack for such an event. If you're aiding an assault, it can be used to great effect when flanking the enemy. Furthermore, it's just as useful in silent environments, where players are accustomed to hearing at least the sonic crack, and can be left off guard as they approach the window you'd been using as a sniper perch. In fact, I've seen stealth-focused players cut through occupied towns to reach objectives before the majority of the defenders even knew they were under attack. As a frequent Invade & Annex player (and yes, the lower volume DOES effect AI), a personal favorite strategy of mine is to keep a CQB modded ASP in a carryall pack, and bring an MAR or LLR as my primary weapon. When I run out of rounds, the line of skirmish moves close enough to an urban environment that far sniper support is not effective, or I just run out of targets, I'll swap weapons and serve as a forward scout assassinating any stray units I come across and providing extra intel to my team. If you bring some explosive charges, this can also make a half-decent tank buster setup if you don't mind getting a bit risky. Basically, moral of the story, keep a holosight tucked in whatever spare inventory space you can muster, and you'll have the ultimate infiltration and ambush weapon on demand.
Thanks for the video, Dslyecxi: when I tried it out in the Marksman Showcase I really did not like it, but that was because I was engaging from around 400m at an angle. This weapon has to be employed in a similar way as with the soviet VSS, except without being able to fire it full-auto for really close-range scenarios. Also nice use of the ArmA3 music: the quiet volume helps keeping focus on the commentary while still adding extra atmosphere to what is effectively an instructional video.
thats actually really helpfull. right when this came out i tryed it and it was pissing me off trying to shoot anything but this makes a lot more sense. thanks for the tip
Dslyecxi, much love from the bottom of my heart man, you're a great man and I hope you're having a blast with life, because I do when watching your videos.
The whole Sub-Sonic vs Super-Sonic part is what makes .45 acp one of the best pistol calibers for suppressing. It's what also makes .300 Blackout one of the best rifle calibers for suppressing as well. The whole process of suppression fascinates me. The difference between cold loads, standard loads, and hot loads. How suppressors work. All that jazz If I lived in Texas I'd totally build a .300 blackout AR and form 1 a suppressor for a mean pig gun. Curse you California and being anti-fun!
thespartanmk1 As far as .45 ACP and .300 BLK, there is still merit to using smaller-caliber rounds. Namely, magazine size. If you can only hold a dozen rounds, you have to be careful and make sure that your shots count and that you don't find yourself too heavily outnumbered. With a vented 9mm, you can still put rounds on target, though it might take more of them, and still have a sizable capacity. The point of a suppressor is more to quiet the noise that radiates in all directions from a gunshot anyway, not so much the target downrange that you're shooting at. More to make sure any reinforcements aren't alerted rather than not letting your target know he's under fire, though that is still obviously beneficial.
Thanks for making this vid. I'm playing Pilgrimage and I just found this weapon. I sold my other rifle for this and I think it will fit my tactics in the game well. I remember seeing this video earlier and thought.... I better take a look at this again to make sure I use it effectively. I think I'll be okay. I just hope I find my brother's body soon. :)
Nice review, and I was trully feeling the same thing the first time I used the Kir (don't sur if you say it but most likely the Kir is good to be used in a reduced visibility scenario, where engagement distances are shorter: night, fog, rain...
This rifle is based on the Russian VSS Vintorez, which is close-quarter combat rifle, a sniper intended for city combat or interiors. It also has effective range of ~300m (is a sub-machine gun effective range) , weights about 2.5 kg, which is too light for any rifle, and is highly suppressed. The original version (the VSS) uses standard 9x39 rounds but this ASP-1 uses 8.6x70. Before judging the rifle as crap, firstly ask yourself whether you employed it for the reason it was intended for. It is quite originally simulated in ARMA 3 though and you only use it as close-range weapon, just as depicted in the video and may have pretty nice kick when used in close quarters, so and penetration factor. Greetings.
+Bruno Dzogovic Your comment was posted quite a while ago, but I still want to correct you: yes, the ASP-1 is designed similar to the Vintorez, but it's based off the VSSK (VKS) rifle. It uses 12,7x55 cartridge, it's silent and it's intended for disabling light armored vehicles\taking out guards from 600m away.. The only difference - the VSSK is bullpup unlike the Kir. And its range is reduced in Arma. I hope this helps you.
Pedro Portela In the new marksmen update, some of the new additions included new armour vests for NATO and CSAT which provide better protection but more weight.
Pedro Portela It came with the new Marksmen DLC. Since it replaces default units with that vest instead of the old one I'm pretty sure you do not have to own the DLC to use it.
Thank you gentlemen for your clarification, since my unit has rolled back the patch due to the latest entanglement with the mods community i didnt see them yet. Many thanks.
I have a clip on twitch of a 550m snapshot kill with the ASP-1 KIR on KoTH. It's basically me seeing a guy moving ona hill across the other side of town, me launching a round at the sky in his general direction, turning away and moving on, then a few seconds later, getting a kill notification, followed by me laughing and saying "fuck off" in disbelief.
Dslyecxi great video as per usual, but just wondering if you could do a tutorial on how to lead shots when using long range high powered rifles. I dont know if youve done one but it would be super useful.
Casamiiir There is no way a tutorial will help you, only thing that will help you is practice. What I'd suggest is making a scenario in the ARMA 3/2 editor where there's just a bunch of soldiers walking on a road and then you engage them from the side.
Casamiiir Well, if you have a scope with mil-dots, it's always seemed to me to be between 2-3 mil-dots lead at about 300 meters on a target moving directly perpendicular to the shooter at Arma's normal "jogging" pace. Anything more specific than that is a function of practice and trial and error.
This clears up everything I thought was wrong/glitched with the weapon! Thank you so much for this video! What were you using for the ballistics range? Was it user created or something you threw together? Looked very nice.
Hey Dslyexci, I don't recall you mentioning it, but since alpha with TrackIR, if you use low mag optics (the HAMR / Elcan), it seems like that you can look away from the optic (still with magnification) from the sight while zoomed in, which means you have to keep your head really still, rendering those sights practically useless and actually stops me from wanting to use TrackIR altogether, I had to assign a key to disable TrackIR temporarily when I do use it. How do you get around that issue? I uploaded a ticket on their site a while back and it's been "reviewed", let me know what you think, thanks.
Thanks guys I'll try those for now, but both of those options just sound like a workaround, the fact that you can look beyond the scope and still get the magnification is clearly not a designed feature, or else you would have been able to hold alt and look around, but you can't, it's only with TrackIR where you can look beyond the boundary.
aaron4820 Your right that its not designed to be able to be magnified looking out of the scope (therefore a bug, should totally report on bugtracker). However, the TrackIR being able to look around during ADS is a feature, even if it doesn't work with alt. TrackIR exclusive :)
Wade Pritchard Yeah I've reported it on the feedback system, hopefully they'd fix it one day. I agree with the ability to look around with red dot sights and iron sights is entirely realistic though, I use that often, it's realistic to look around the sight when the gun is shoulders and face pressed against the stock, it's just not for the low magnification sights :)
***** that's a new version of hypnomatic script? cause i recall your version with the color coding but i don't remember the small "block" that represents the bullet in the trajectory you have in this video...
I do have problem with its lethality. Technically a 12.7x55 should have the amount of muzzle energy similar to that of a 7.62x51. It's not a small amount by all means, and a subsonic round probably transfer more to the target as well. The thing is it kills better than a .338 even at 400m. The only argument I can come up for this is that for all the hit probability you lose through the lower velocity, you have to be compensated somehow to make the game “balanced".
+BrainSeepsOut The ammunition seems to be very similar to if not identical to/specifically that used in a bullpup bolt-action rifle called the VKS (aka VSSK), whereas the Vintorez's 9 x 39 mm... not sure that a 'proper' analogue in Arma 3 comes to mind, I'm afraid.
There is a bigger difference between .50 BMG used by Western Powers and the 12.7mm x 108mm, used by Russian weapons. The bores of the Russian 12.7mm weapons are actually .51 caliber, but during firing the rifling grooves in the barrel, .005 inches thick push up into the bullet for stabilization. This results in NATO .50 BMG cartridges being unable to be fired from Russian 12.7mm weapons, not that this would likely happen anyhow. By the way, Desert Eagle .50 bullets are denoted from the .50 BMG by stating them as .50 AE, so that you know that they are wide handgun cartridges instead of sleek rifle cartridges.
while it does fill an interesting area for the weapons in arma i think this role would have been better served as a secondary weapon such as a pistol or foldout rifle. this may compromise the dedicated role of this weapon as a specialised support weapon but would have made it more accessible to the main player base.
spiced I believe the AS VAL, VSS, and VKS are all able to be broken down into the receiver, stock, and barrel for transporting in, say, a backpack for just that reason, but I could be wrong. And as far as a gameplay mechanic, maybe it would be better suited to a pistol (although it is still very useful at medium range, 200-300 meters, far past where a pistol is effective, you just have to be sure about your ranging) but Arma, even with fictional weapons, tries to simulate real life and, in this case, the VKS rifle.
Uri Thraburn Not quite -- the round (12.7 x 54 mm) comes from the VKS, a bullpup "intended for special operations that require silent firing and penetration much superior to that provided by 9×39mm VSS silenced sniper rifle."
so its basically the vss in arma, i must say both in marksman and apex csat get to have a range of really exotic and unconventional weapons when compared to nato
i kept thinking the gun was broken. thanks for explaining this to me. too bad arma 3 does not involve more types of ammo such as subsonic and armor penetrating. it does but VERY rare guns such as this one. the 7.62 however is a one size fits all.
gloryhit more like VKS en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VKS_sniper_rifle , at least in terms of ballistics and calliber, while visually it's an oversized VSS/VAL.
Picked this up in the Old Man campaign recently (its in the Blue Pearl shipping container) but gotta say... This bad boy needs the right scope on it. Otherwise you are shooting WAY over the target.
Thanks so much for doing this! I was really confused (and thus pretty annoyed) with the weapon, wondering why it takes ages to hit the target - if it even does hit! The powerful bullet and guaranteed silencer is something to consider, though, so I'll probably be using this as a close range stealth weapon in the future. Also, I love all the details in bullet trajectories and physics in ArmA! That alone has kept me playing hundreds of hours, even though I really dislike the new damage/medical system. =)
And also in the hands of a player that mastered stealth and ballistics. Those arc shots are no joke since no one can figure out where the shots are coming from, and high arc shots using heavy rounds mean that even at low speed they deal a lot of damage to poorly armored targets, while at close range it goes through heavy armor without making a large noise.
The argument that the "application is too limited" is based on the idea that there is something else that can do the same thing better. Is there another subsonic rifle with greater abilities to be subsonic, powerful, with greater range, and nearly silent?
now tell me arma 2 vets, is arma 2 is still better then arma 3? Firing from vehicles, advanced heli flight model, weapon resting and deployment, a lot of differend stances, weapon customization. If you come with mods, well, you can use RHS now, along with arma 2 islands.
+ipropain I'd recommend just getting the one in the CUP weapons pack. CUP and all the HLC weapon packs have given me more guns than I'd ever know what to do with.
Evolution tends to make things better and fill a wider nitch. This weapon is the opposite. The only thing it does better is the stopping power. I'm sure the weapons I mentioned will still be valid in 2035. For the same reasons they included the m14 variants.
The Vintorez has really really REALLY short range and uses a super special 9mm round, compared to the Kir that fires 50 caliber rounds and is more silent. It's a good move to put in the Kir because basically it does a better job than its predecessor and sometimes vintage guns (Talking 2035 here) like the Vintorez are fun, but not good guns by that time period.
***** The 9x39mm is not a "super special" round at all as it is used in many different weapons. It can penetrate 2cm of steel at 500m. The 12.7x55 can penetrate 1.6cm of steel at 200m, and it is only used in one weapon. A 12.7mm projectile flying past you is going to make more noise than a 9mm one. The 12.7mm needs more pressure to force it out of the barrel than the 9mm thus also making the muzzle signature louder due to the increased amount of gas escaping. So to sum it up, the Kir has less range, is less effective at range, has a louder projectile, and the muzzle report is louder. How exactly is it better? I can provide sources if you would like.
For the Asp-1 use a DMS scope for the fact that it is the only scope that can range to 100 meters when your maximum engagement distance with the ASP will be around 250 meters.
Jake Prescott If so, it'd have to be a mission carefully designed around them, and they'd likely be ironsights-only. I could see it being employed with a magnified optic in a coop, though, since it's very... special.
***** Can you do more videos like this with the recent DLC? I have been hesitant on buying any on the DLC due to their absurd pricing. Though I'm not involved with ShakTac, I do play with some friends that is very similar to what you play, and I generally play as a support class of some sort (LMG, AT, AA etc..) This DLC has caught my eye, but again hesitant on the price.
Hellghast1109 The two MMGs the DLC adds were enough for me, I don't care about marksman rifles that much. Although the reload animation on the Mk14 is pure sex.
1911Shields I don't have an interest in the helicopters or go carts. I had jumped onto a server last night and someone had this DLC, so I was able to try all the weapons out. I was impressed by this update/DLC. The ability to better control recoil and now the use of bi-pods and these new rifles had me sold.
SecularStrategy That's a good question. My understanding is that Shack Tac has a general "no sniper weapons" rule to keep the game more competitive and engaging, but this weapon hardly falls under that umbrella.
SecularStrategy Unless Shacktac require people to buy the dlc to play with them, then I don't think they would do that. Unfair to people who don't have the dlc.
SecularStrategy If it happens it will be a very special mission, with lots of balancing going one, and not a standard. Currently for our members in Shacktac if they are not owners of the DLC they are forbidden from using DLC specific items in mission. They must choose roles that are "vanilla".
I was playing some casual KOTH nonsense the other day, when I got picked off by an ASP. I (perhaps redundantly) attempted a bit of team communication and spoke up to warn people that there was an ASP user near ____ location, so incoming fire might sound muted. Got a pair of guys laughing and telling me the ASP was a useless broken gun, and asking why the hell I'd report that. Followed by a few "WTF, ASP got me?" moments later. Was kinda funny.
It's a prohibitively niche and tricky gun to use, but so many players simply don't understand it.
Yeah ikr, asp is deadly as fuck, once u used to it. When i was playing koth long time ago, i think its 2017, me and my team mates were doing insertion to Zaros map using hummingbird from direction of opfor base iirc, the landing zone is a forest surrounding the city. Once we landed, we were ambushed by two or three enemy infantry, the first enemy who attacked us was a marksman with ASP KIR, phew - phew, 3 or 4 of us down, and one of my teammate was saying "Silent Death" LOL.
The dedication is strong in this one.. Great content
I remember using this gun in the dev version on the marksman scenario, I thought the damn thing was broken.
I don't even play Arma but it's just awesome to watch your videos on them.
Crafted a thoughtful and entertaining video despite despite my familiarity with the subject.
Check
Crafted a thoughtful and entertaining video that showed me I didn't know as much as I thought I did...again.
Double Check
I love this rifle!
I just finished a 2½ hour training session using it with ACE3s advanced ballistics on a scenario I made for this exact purpose.
Getting 4-500 meter kill shots in the first shot with this thing feels like heaven after those 20-30 seconds of careful calculations and measurements.
Up to about 250 meters, normal winds barely even affect the bullet, so most of the time I don't even need to bother with the Kestrel and I can just use the Vector 21 rangefinder and my range card.
Such a nice reward for myself after spending 2 days painstakingly finding and noting down in a spreadsheet, the true zeros of every Vanilla, CUP and HLC gun that could mount an LRPS and isn't an SMG.
Wow, this is one of the best made training style videos for ARMA 3 I’ve seen. Bohemia Interactive should pay you to make videos for there games.
You know what'd be neat? Have the WA2000, or some spiritual successor that the CTRG threw together or something, and let it have either super or subsonic rounds, as well as the option of suppressor or no suppressor. The WA2000 is known for being very light yet accurate, with a very quiet report, even when unsuppressed. I feel like a subsonic/suppressorless build would be perfect for a scout sniper build that wants to be stealthy yet effective at range. The only downsides are that it's really expensive, far too expensive for any army to employ in general service, and that like the ASP, it doesn't bear the absolutely insane range of it's competitors, yet is outperformed in CQB and MRB by battle rifles and DMRs. It feels like a weapon that would be best in a DLC focused on specialists in stealth and/or urban missions, sort of like Apex, but if Tanoa had a slightly higher city/jungle ratio.
in the right hands this gun destroys in PvP. I use it with an SMG red dot, Kentucky the range and engage cqb. with the added bonus of bring way harder to detect. I love this gun and put it to good use regularly
sounds basically like a futuristic version of the russian VSS Vintorez
DJ Lambda On a dev livestream the creative director specifically cited the VSS and VKS rifles (the latter of which shares the Kir's caliber).
very cool
They might use the same sound for the vss in dayz.
DJ Lambda Vintorez is not so loud. Its an analog of VSSK Vihlop
Orin Polansky not really, Vihlop is to my knowledge, first silenced large cal sniperrifle, has 12,7mm bullet, while vintorez has a 9mm round.
Nice video.
Finally a dude that understand how ammo works.
People who dislike the Kir never played STALKER.
SteelBadger13 AS VAL FOR LIFE!
***** as val was my fav on battlefield 3
SteelBadger13 A NUU CHEEKI BREEKI IV DAMKI !
SteelBadger13
Hmm I don't genereally dislike the ASP... And i loved stalker.... But i still can't figure out the connection... The AS VAL and VSS Vintorez didn't perform that different from the other guns, from what I remember...
AS VAL and the VSS Vintorez feature a sharp bullet drop because the 9x39mm rounds they fire IRL are heavy. And since they are subsonic rounds to boot they are slower. The ASP is basically the same thing. But in shortneck 12.7mm (which is a real round, the ASP is a real rifle, just that IRL its bullpup)
Thanks a lot for this weapon overview. Arma is complex and things like that are not always noticeable.
Thanks for this explanation Dslyecxi, it is very timely for me. Just yesterday I spent a frustrating couple of hours playing Rydygier's excellent MANW-winning Pilgrimage mission trying to engage an outpost from 500m away with a Kir and finding no joy. I was so frustrated I searched the forums to see if others felt this rifle was busted.
this level of infos and good visualization should be expected from the developers of arma. GREAT WORK Dslyecxi
Find it funny how some RUclipsrs defend other well known RUclipsrs who claim this gun is broken due to them not knowing how to use it and claiming that it was the weapon system fault, EI Operatordrewski defending frankieonpc missing shots at 300m with this system. Thank you for making this well crafted video to show those who do not understand how to properly employ it the corrections that they need to perform to make it work for them!
KhanOnRUclips Gaming Channel iirc OperatorDrewski's vid said pretty much the same thing (the round is really slow because it is meant to be a stealth weapon so you need to very accurately zero the weapon) He never said the weapon was broken and in fact defended it
AWW MAN that awesome tune at the end just nailed the already very nice video.
looking forward to more of these!
I prefer using this gun past 350 meters, because once you get past that range people don't hear the gun. Also once you get to ranges of 500 to 600 meters, that ballistic arc and be used to negate hard cover such as rocks and low walls. Because the round will go over the object and hit the target. Something i love doing and it really throws people off because they only hear the bullet impact and nearly all the cover they take rounds are still landing on them or their friends.
This is a extremely powerful weapon but one that requires a lot of time and practice to get good with. Also this weapon requires you more then more to perform range checks and map your area. So if an enemy appears at say 'House A' you know that range and additional adjustments that are needed to get your first volley on target. And same if targets appear at other locations.
But it has problems like it's weight, which effects your aim. Which isn't a problem if you're deployed well prone, but it's when you're in a town that this causes issues. Because like always you want to be hidden in the building and not on the window. And since the shoot stand in ACE 3 isn't in the stock game, you have to aim unsupported a lot of the time and deal with the extra sway and reduce follow up shot time. Not to mention it reduces your ability to reposition after engaging, but reduces your ability to move and keep going.
+John J I actually make my own range cards on a notepad so that I don't have to keep using the rangefinder if I'm not using a Nightstalker scope on it. lol That being said, I usually use the ASP-1 when I'm anticipating close quarters combat.
+John J Absolutely agree, I love hitting long (3-500m) range shots with this in ACE3. It's oh so satisfying.
Actually, it's rather useful in urban environments if you keep a CQB scope that ranges to 100m stowed in your pack for such an event. If you're aiding an assault, it can be used to great effect when flanking the enemy. Furthermore, it's just as useful in silent environments, where players are accustomed to hearing at least the sonic crack, and can be left off guard as they approach the window you'd been using as a sniper perch. In fact, I've seen stealth-focused players cut through occupied towns to reach objectives before the majority of the defenders even knew they were under attack.
As a frequent Invade & Annex player (and yes, the lower volume DOES effect AI), a personal favorite strategy of mine is to keep a CQB modded ASP in a carryall pack, and bring an MAR or LLR as my primary weapon. When I run out of rounds, the line of skirmish moves close enough to an urban environment that far sniper support is not effective, or I just run out of targets, I'll swap weapons and serve as a forward scout assassinating any stray units I come across and providing extra intel to my team. If you bring some explosive charges, this can also make a half-decent tank buster setup if you don't mind getting a bit risky.
Basically, moral of the story, keep a holosight tucked in whatever spare inventory space you can muster, and you'll have the ultimate infiltration and ambush weapon on demand.
Thanks for the video, Dslyecxi: when I tried it out in the Marksman Showcase I really did not like it, but that was because I was engaging from around 400m at an angle. This weapon has to be employed in a similar way as with the soviet VSS, except without being able to fire it full-auto for really close-range scenarios.
Also nice use of the ArmA3 music: the quiet volume helps keeping focus on the commentary while still adding extra atmosphere to what is effectively an instructional video.
thats actually really helpfull. right when this came out i tryed it and it was pissing me off trying to shoot anything but this makes a lot more sense. thanks for the tip
Dslyecxi, much love from the bottom of my heart man, you're a great man and I hope you're having a blast with life, because I do when watching your videos.
I'm very thankful you uploaded this. I thought it was a bug with the Kir.
Reminds me of the lvlcap style of videos. I enjoy it when people do these videos. Keep it up man!
The whole Sub-Sonic vs Super-Sonic part is what makes .45 acp one of the best pistol calibers for suppressing. It's what also makes .300 Blackout one of the best rifle calibers for suppressing as well.
The whole process of suppression fascinates me. The difference between cold loads, standard loads, and hot loads. How suppressors work. All that jazz
If I lived in Texas I'd totally build a .300 blackout AR and form 1 a suppressor for a mean pig gun. Curse you California and being anti-fun!
thespartanmk1 As far as .45 ACP and .300 BLK, there is still merit to using smaller-caliber rounds. Namely, magazine size. If you can only hold a dozen rounds, you have to be careful and make sure that your shots count and that you don't find yourself too heavily outnumbered. With a vented 9mm, you can still put rounds on target, though it might take more of them, and still have a sizable capacity.
The point of a suppressor is more to quiet the noise that radiates in all directions from a gunshot anyway, not so much the target downrange that you're shooting at. More to make sure any reinforcements aren't alerted rather than not letting your target know he's under fire, though that is still obviously beneficial.
Dude this is the best weapon tutorial i have ever seen u should always do these.
This was an eye-opener. I'll employ this knowledge on Wasteland...
Excellent overview/tutorial. Thanks Dslyecxi!
Really loved the video man! The ballistic trajectory color tracker is such a great tool. Keep it up!
Great video, Dslyecxi! I would love to see more of these kind
Your info videos are the best! Thanks for this. I was so confused with the aiming on this one
Thanks for making this vid. I'm playing Pilgrimage and I just found this weapon. I sold my other rifle for this and I think it will fit my tactics in the game well. I remember seeing this video earlier and thought.... I better take a look at this again to make sure I use it effectively. I think I'll be okay. I just hope I find my brother's body soon. :)
very informative i know if i used this weapon before i watched this video i would have thought the gun was broken.
Nice review, and I was trully feeling the same thing the first time I used the Kir (don't sur if you say it but most likely the Kir is good to be used in a reduced visibility scenario, where engagement distances are shorter: night, fog, rain...
The way you say "Greetings" makes me happy. Would it be weird if I made it my text notification?
Loved the video as always, and is there a chance you will do more of these videos but with other weapons from the marksman dlc?
Oh and yeah, more infantry/equipment guides please!
This video was particularly good. I liked it a lot.
ppl say the kir is trash i like it once i found out how to use it
I love those TTP videos - fun, informative and with great montage :D
Thanks Dslyecxi, great vid.
Great video, a very interesting topic, and well explained points. Thank you Dslyecxi.
This cleared it all up. Thanks!
This rifle is based on the Russian VSS Vintorez, which is close-quarter combat rifle, a sniper intended for city combat or interiors. It also has effective range of ~300m (is a sub-machine gun effective range) , weights about 2.5 kg, which is too light for any rifle, and is highly suppressed. The original version (the VSS) uses standard 9x39 rounds but this ASP-1 uses 8.6x70. Before judging the rifle as crap, firstly ask yourself whether you employed it for the reason it was intended for. It is quite originally simulated in ARMA 3 though and you only use it as close-range weapon, just as depicted in the video and may have pretty nice kick when used in close quarters, so and penetration factor. Greetings.
It's just as when you try to make difference between WW2 Welrod pistol and the German Luger.
+Bruno Dzogovic Your comment was posted quite a while ago, but I still want to correct you: yes, the ASP-1 is designed similar to the Vintorez, but it's based off the VSSK (VKS) rifle. It uses 12,7x55 cartridge, it's silent and it's intended for disabling light armored vehicles\taking out guards from 600m away.. The only difference - the VSSK is bullpup unlike the Kir. And its range is reduced in Arma. I hope this helps you.
At 5:43 theres a heavily armored UN soldier when did BIS introduced that armor type?
Pedro Portela In the new marksmen update, some of the new additions included new armour vests for NATO and CSAT which provide better protection but more weight.
Pedro Portela It came with the new Marksmen DLC. Since it replaces default units with that vest instead of the old one I'm pretty sure you do not have to own the DLC to use it.
sillyslapper92 They changed NATO GL and Special carrier rigs to the new heavily armored ones. As well the AAF GL carrier. But not CSAT.
Thank you gentlemen for your clarification, since my unit has rolled back the patch due to the latest entanglement with the mods community i didnt see them yet. Many thanks.
+1911Shields On the other hand, CSAT have the only armoured ghillie suits.
I have a clip on twitch of a 550m snapshot kill with the ASP-1 KIR on KoTH. It's basically me seeing a guy moving ona hill across the other side of town, me launching a round at the sky in his general direction, turning away and moving on, then a few seconds later, getting a kill notification, followed by me laughing and saying "fuck off" in disbelief.
of these would be awesome, you speak well and explain better. You captivate and educate.
God damn it, now I want to see you using this thing in action.
This was very helpful. Thanks!
Very informative, as usual. Thanks.
Damn i learned so many new things from this, thank you Dslyecxi!
Thanks for sharing that dude! I don't use all features of A3... How I'm wrong!!
"until next time - take kir"
fantastic up to 400m, anything further is difficult to hit because of the arrow like trajectory
Dslyecxi great video as per usual, but just wondering if you could do a tutorial on how to lead shots when using long range high powered rifles.
I dont know if youve done one but it would be super useful.
Casamiiir There is no way a tutorial will help you, only thing that will help you is practice. What I'd suggest is making a scenario in the ARMA 3/2 editor where there's just a bunch of soldiers walking on a road and then you engage them from the side.
Casamiiir Well, if you have a scope with mil-dots, it's always seemed to me to be between 2-3 mil-dots lead at about 300 meters on a target moving directly perpendicular to the shooter at Arma's normal "jogging" pace.
Anything more specific than that is a function of practice and trial and error.
Interesting rifle, nice video as always.
This clears up everything I thought was wrong/glitched with the weapon! Thank you so much for this video! What were you using for the ballistics range? Was it user created or something you threw together? Looked very nice.
Well this explains why I had such a dickens of a time using it in the marksmen showcase
Hey Dslyexci, I don't recall you mentioning it, but since alpha with TrackIR, if you use low mag optics (the HAMR / Elcan), it seems like that you can look away from the optic (still with magnification) from the sight while zoomed in, which means you have to keep your head really still, rendering those sights practically useless and actually stops me from wanting to use TrackIR altogether, I had to assign a key to disable TrackIR temporarily when I do use it. How do you get around that issue? I uploaded a ticket on their site a while back and it's been "reviewed", let me know what you think, thanks.
aaron4820 You probably just need to adjust your traking settings. Make it less sensitive in the middle of your view so you can hold it steady easier.
aaron4820 If you don't have precision on, I'd highly suggest it. I don't have that issue because precision keeps it smoothly centered.
Thanks guys I'll try those for now, but both of those options just sound like a workaround, the fact that you can look beyond the scope and still get the magnification is clearly not a designed feature, or else you would have been able to hold alt and look around, but you can't, it's only with TrackIR where you can look beyond the boundary.
aaron4820 Your right that its not designed to be able to be magnified looking out of the scope (therefore a bug, should totally report on bugtracker). However, the TrackIR being able to look around during ADS is a feature, even if it doesn't work with alt. TrackIR exclusive :)
Wade Pritchard Yeah I've reported it on the feedback system, hopefully they'd fix it one day. I agree with the ability to look around with red dot sights and iron sights is entirely realistic though, I use that often, it's realistic to look around the sight when the gun is shoulders and face pressed against the stock, it's just not for the low magnification sights :)
Nice vid, what would you have have the CSAT sniper rifle then mate?
Solid info as always!!! Thx!!!
Loved this video!
Great info thanks for making this!
Great Video!
Could you go through the differences in the 9.3 and the .338
You mentioned ACE 3 in this video.. Do you know when its being released?
how did you get your auto range on the nightstalker to work? are you using AGM mod at the same time?
Cool. Learned a lot.
Keep up the great video's!
Quick question what is the scope at 6:10 called?
+xxmonsterteexx Nightstalker scope, it's one of CSAT's little tech wonders.
***** that's a new version of hypnomatic script? cause i recall your version with the color coding but i don't remember the small "block" that represents the bullet in the trajectory you have in this video...
Good job mate
Is this the only gun in ArmA3 with subsonic-ammo? I can remember that you could select your ammo in ArmA1 and 2. In ArmA3 i never saw different ammo.
I do have problem with its lethality. Technically a 12.7x55 should have the amount of muzzle energy similar to that of a 7.62x51. It's not a small amount by all means, and a subsonic round probably transfer more to the target as well. The thing is it kills better than a .338 even at 400m. The only argument I can come up for this is that for all the hit probability you lose through the lower velocity, you have to be compensated somehow to make the game “balanced".
So it's a Tacticool Vintorez with a bigger casing, neato.
+BrainSeepsOut The ammunition seems to be very similar to if not identical to/specifically that used in a bullpup bolt-action rifle called the VKS (aka VSSK), whereas the Vintorez's 9 x 39 mm... not sure that a 'proper' analogue in Arma 3 comes to mind, I'm afraid.
How come I can't find this video on your uploads?
There is a bigger difference between .50 BMG used by Western Powers and the 12.7mm x 108mm, used by Russian weapons. The bores of the Russian 12.7mm weapons are actually .51 caliber, but during firing the rifling grooves in the barrel, .005 inches thick push up into the bullet for stabilization. This results in NATO .50 BMG cartridges being unable to be fired from Russian 12.7mm weapons, not that this would likely happen anyhow. By the way, Desert Eagle .50 bullets are denoted from the .50 BMG by stating them as .50 AE, so that you know that they are wide handgun cartridges instead of sleek rifle cartridges.
while it does fill an interesting area for the weapons in arma i think this role would have been better served as a secondary weapon such as a pistol or foldout rifle. this may compromise the dedicated role of this weapon as a specialised support weapon but would have made it more accessible to the main player base.
spiced I believe the AS VAL, VSS, and VKS are all able to be broken down into the receiver, stock, and barrel for transporting in, say, a backpack for just that reason, but I could be wrong.
And as far as a gameplay mechanic, maybe it would be better suited to a pistol (although it is still very useful at medium range, 200-300 meters, far past where a pistol is effective, you just have to be sure about your ranging) but Arma, even with fictional weapons, tries to simulate real life and, in this case, the VKS rifle.
oh my god it's a future vss, put it in me
brb buying this dlc just for this rifle
Uri Thraburn Not quite -- the round (12.7 x 54 mm) comes from the VKS, a bullpup "intended for special operations that require silent firing and penetration much superior to that provided by 9×39mm VSS silenced sniper rifle."
I realize that they are technically different but operationally they are almost identical and that is what I was excited about.
Awesome, very interesing
so its basically the vss in arma, i must say both in marksman and apex csat get to have a range of really exotic and unconventional weapons when compared to nato
i kept thinking the gun was broken. thanks for explaining this to me. too bad arma 3 does not involve more types of ammo such as subsonic and armor penetrating. it does but VERY rare guns such as this one. the 7.62 however is a one size fits all.
+alex “alextheromanian” theromanian Git yourself some mods son. CUP, HLC, ACE3. Hop to it.
Oouh... What are those side-swivel targets? Modded content or was I just too stupid to find these in the editor?
So pretty much like a Vss Vintorez, AS VAL or Ots-14 Groza?
gloryhit more like VKS en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VKS_sniper_rifle , at least in terms of ballistics and calliber, while visually it's an oversized VSS/VAL.
Picked this up in the Old Man campaign recently (its in the Blue Pearl shipping container) but gotta say... This bad boy needs the right scope on it. Otherwise you are shooting WAY over the target.
Thanks so much for doing this! I was really confused (and thus pretty annoyed) with the weapon, wondering why it takes ages to hit the target - if it even does hit! The powerful bullet and guaranteed silencer is something to consider, though, so I'll probably be using this as a close range stealth weapon in the future.
Also, I love all the details in bullet trajectories and physics in ArmA! That alone has kept me playing hundreds of hours, even though I really dislike the new damage/medical system. =)
The kir is at it's most deadly when employed by a Zeus on an invade an annex server.
And also in the hands of a player that mastered stealth and ballistics. Those arc shots are no joke since no one can figure out where the shots are coming from, and high arc shots using heavy rounds mean that even at low speed they deal a lot of damage to poorly armored targets, while at close range it goes through heavy armor without making a large noise.
The argument that the "application is too limited" is based on the idea that there is something else that can do the same thing better.
Is there another subsonic rifle with greater abilities to be subsonic, powerful, with greater range, and nearly silent?
what is the point in online gaming of using subsonic ammo when they still hear the gun in a few hundred meters...what is effective range
When I first tried this gun in the dev build I thought to myself, damn, that is the slowest bullet I have ever seen
now tell me arma 2 vets, is arma 2 is still better then arma 3? Firing from vehicles, advanced heli flight model, weapon resting and deployment, a lot of differend stances, weapon customization. If you come with mods, well, you can use RHS now, along with arma 2 islands.
Arma 2 better
Guys what is the best Barrett m82 mod in arma 3? Which one was used in the video?
+ipropain I'd recommend just getting the one in the CUP weapons pack.
CUP and all the HLC weapon packs have given me more guns than I'd ever know what to do with.
Christian Friis Sørensen Okay well I'll check that out. thanks
Whats the name of that shooting range map? ty :)
***** It's the sand airfield on Altis, he just put down a few marksman targets.
I still don't understand why they picked this over the AS-VAL or VSS Vintorez.
gostrydr It's meant to be an evolution of those weapons. A3 is set in 2035, IIRC.
Evolution tends to make things better and fill a wider nitch. This weapon is the opposite. The only thing it does better is the stopping power.
I'm sure the weapons I mentioned will still be valid in 2035. For the same reasons they included the m14 variants.
The Vintorez has really really REALLY short range and uses a super special 9mm round, compared to the Kir that fires 50 caliber rounds and is more silent.
It's a good move to put in the Kir because basically it does a better job than its predecessor and sometimes vintage guns (Talking 2035 here) like the Vintorez are fun, but not good guns by that time period.
*****
VSS and VAL are effective out to about 200-300 meters, and are much more accurate than the ASP-1 at those ranges.
***** The 9x39mm is not a "super special" round at all as it is used in many different weapons. It can penetrate 2cm of steel at 500m.
The 12.7x55 can penetrate 1.6cm of steel at 200m, and it is only used in one weapon.
A 12.7mm projectile flying past you is going to make more noise than a 9mm one.
The 12.7mm needs more pressure to force it out of the barrel than the 9mm thus also making the muzzle signature louder due to the increased amount of gas escaping.
So to sum it up, the Kir has less range, is less effective at range, has a louder projectile, and the muzzle report is louder.
How exactly is it better?
I can provide sources if you would like.
Finally my raifu gets some attention.
Could anyone explain to me which sights to use in KOTH and why?
For the Asp-1 use a DMS scope for the fact that it is the only scope that can range to 100 meters when your maximum engagement distance with the ASP will be around 250 meters.
Or a MP reddot for CQB
Would this weapon ever be used in ShackTac adversarial missions?
Jake Prescott If so, it'd have to be a mission carefully designed around them, and they'd likely be ironsights-only. I could see it being employed with a magnified optic in a coop, though, since it's very... special.
***** A special weapon for special people
Manco Capac
Give it to Ghostboots then watch Dslyecxi follow him around like the grim reaper :D
Actually, a couple of holosights can get zeroed down to 100m, which even at CQB range is very easy to compensate for.
Wait, there's ACE 3?
Peacemuser Yep, a unofficial release has been released . Look on Armaholic
So, a close quarters battle rifle?
+LigerBans Close quarters sniper rifle.
meh i am sticking to the Mk1 has everything i need. good round not too heavy even good for CQB
***** Can you do more videos like this with the recent DLC? I have been hesitant on buying any on the DLC due to their absurd pricing. Though I'm not involved with ShakTac, I do play with some friends that is very similar to what you play, and I generally play as a support class of some sort (LMG, AT, AA etc..) This DLC has caught my eye, but again hesitant on the price.
Hellghast1109 20 Euros for the bundle is not a bad deal at all, if you play Arma 3 daily its definitely worth the purchase.
Hellghast1109 The two MMGs the DLC adds were enough for me, I don't care about marksman rifles that much. Although the reload animation on the Mk14 is pure sex.
1911Shields I don't have an interest in the helicopters or go carts. I had jumped onto a server last night and someone had this DLC, so I was able to try all the weapons out. I was impressed by this update/DLC. The ability to better control recoil and now the use of bi-pods and these new rifles had me sold.
Any chance we'll be seeing this in your multiplayer games?
SecularStrategy KING OF THE HILL yes brother
SecularStrategy That's a good question. My understanding is that Shack Tac has a general "no sniper weapons" rule to keep the game more competitive and engaging, but this weapon hardly falls under that umbrella.
TheRogueWolf but it's not exactly a sniper, at least that's what's concluded in the video.
SecularStrategy Unless Shacktac require people to buy the dlc to play with them, then I don't think they would do that. Unfair to people who don't have the dlc.
SecularStrategy If it happens it will be a very special mission, with lots of balancing going one, and not a standard. Currently for our members in Shacktac if they are not owners of the DLC they are forbidden from using DLC specific items in mission. They must choose roles that are "vanilla".