Ling main here: Here are my tips on fighting her (some are mentioned by TMM) 1. Let her come to you. 2. Turtle hard, because she's extremely minus on a lot of things. 3. Let her whiff things. One of Ling's biggest problems is her range. She can come after you with rolls, wr3, or some longer range moves, but they are all punishable. If she's rolling toward you, she's plus, but as soon as she starts an attack, she'll either be extremely minus on block or whiff. 4. Her biggest asset is that she is a heavy cancel character. Everything can be cancelled. That SS3 snake edge? Cancels for a 50/50. Her uf1 low into Aop? Cancels into crouch for a 50/50. More intermediate and high level players will play this character in a wild, unpredictable way. 5. It's not enough to have stances that can avoid things, because compared to characters like Zafina and Lei, these stances require the Ling player to move out of it quick and react to their opponent at the same time. However, unlike Zaf and Lei, that gives a good Ling a lot more flexibility if they have the chops. So if you see Ling partying, remember that in order to finally get in, she will need to risk being launched. This includes her counter game. *** 6. HOWEVER, her strongest tool in S3 is her RDS1 - CH launch, a follow up 4 that also CH launches (to catch backdashing), and -5 on block. She can't pressure this, because she has no dangerous follow up besides 4, but she will train you with it. If the player has a habit of using the 4, duck and punish. If they don't, block or whiff punish. If they seem like they haven't used that 4 launcher, watch out, keep your distance, and let her whiff it. She's -6 on block after that RDS1,4. If she tries anything there, she'll eat a counter, but most Lings will back off and reset to neutral. Watch out for this move. It's her counter balance to S2 and S3 nerfing AoP hard. They've been making Ling more of a high risk counter character, rather than a sneaky, evasive poke character. *** 7. AoP has a slight side step, so that is why DJs kick was whiffing in the video. This is why many Mishima players will pressure and CD in to reset the angle. However, Ling's weakness here is that it is very easy to get off angle and stay there. Her strings and flowcharts will lead to her whiffing a lot of moves to empty space, while you will have plenty of time to destroy her. If you see it, make her eat a combo.
Thanks for tip information, yet I STILL hate her existence regardless being able to beat her. No offense to you the player, ONLY the character gameplay design to be respectfully clear.
Whats also great for learning to play against character, is to simply play that character yourself. You will save the moves into your muscle memory and recognize them playing against him/ her. Also you’ll see how your opponents deal with certain moves and can learn from that as well
There are too many characters... no one has time to learn that many. You're not gonna learn all the mixups and weird bullshit that player who have been maining that character for years know anyways.
One of the weirdest concepts that is in Tekken is the "burden of character matchup" that some characters have. I've noticed a lot of people (especially at locals) will try to break down simple concepts in Tekken, things like 10f being almost a speed limit, understanding KBD and it's usefulness, etc are all really simple things. But then you have characters like Xiao where they have things that aren't REALLY standard in the game, where they have so many weird stance transitions or crushing moves and you are forced to learn this nonsense for like one matchup and it'll NEVER apply anywhere else. I guess it's kind of weird because I understand the idea that fighting games are usually all about character matchup but to have tools that opponents can't deal with unless they spend a few hours in practice mode seems really out of place because it means the person using those bullshit tools is basically being carried in a matchup until the opponent counters it.
Wow this comment aged well, huh. I learned the Ling matchup soon after in T7 ( though I was slightly carried by Lee's favorable matchup into her for the game) but now in T8, woah boy. She's still cool though, I think most people like her once they realize what she is actually doing most of the time.
After the Cali roll is blocked and you fear the potential parry, you have two "safe" options: You can punish with a 10 frame like MainMan said or you do a quick knee, shoulder or elbow attack if you have one.
AoP has a very slight SS right movement to it, so certain mids will miss, no matter how low the hitbox. You need to realign with FF or something. A lot of Xiaoyu guides will point this out, and even encourage SS-right to AoP against unaware opponents. When you predict and want to punish SS 3, you want to pick a move that also deals with SS 4 - getting CH with the faster SS 4 will get you launched.
If Xiaoyu immediately does the backturned 1+4 (mid/high) or d+1+4 (low) parries (they don't work vs knee attacks among a few other things, e.g. Kings hopkick) you can use a slow i27 or so low launcher guaranteed if you do it on a read and fairly fast after you block the cali roll into rookick (RDS f+3+4, 3+4). Does not show as a punish in practice mode, but that's always the case vs whiffed parries AFAIK.
you can even u/f, n+4 punish it if you get the timing just right, just tested that in practice mode and set her to do RDS 1+4 into standing block as fast as I could after the RDS f+3+4, 3+4. but you have to delay this with a rather specific timing unlike the ~~~i27 low punish.
the RDS f+1+2 parry does beat the i27 low tho (this I have tested vs xiaos ss3) in this situation, and can probably beat delayed hopkicks (I don't know). so you know, once people know that they can super punish the RDS 1+4 parry after caliroll-rookick, the RDS f+1+2 probably then becomes more viable. Not sure at what level this would happen.
After Cali roll she can parry any mid/high move that's 12 frames or more, duck slower than jab highs. So you can't reliably hopkick her out of it, and there is a good chance another caliroll could crush it. And I mean her 1+4, or 2+4 ( don't remember input ) parry that just gives her frame advantage.
I was just about to post this because I have a friend who plays ling and he does that Calli roll setup into parry. And he used to always parry my hopkicks and punches. That's how I learned that Ling cannot parry lows, elbows, and knees. So when I use king she cannot parry his hopkick bc he uses his knee. But when I use armor king she can parry his hopkick.
if she does either the backturned 1+4 or d+1+4 parry immediately after the blocked cali-roll into rookick, then you can punish the whiffed parry on a read. Easiest way is a i27 or so low launcher, like Xiaos ss3 or bryans snake edge, immediately or almost immediately input it after you block the caliroll-rookick. Also u/f, n+4 works in this specific situation if you delay the u/f a bit.
@@tmat1989 she can parry low from backturned with a different input (d+1+4), gives her a regular low parry combo. however I would estimate it extremely unlikely anyone would use this for a number of reasons, esp. after caliroll-roockick gets blocked as it doesn't beat anything dangerous if done immediately and she gets better reward for just blocking the most dangerous slow lows.
If you get launched with her BT 4 after the so-shoe-me throw (f+2+3), you can get launched again with the BT 4 after the first juggle. ( f+2+3, rds 4, f+2,1,4 (side switch), f+3+4, d/b or d/f 4, dash, u/f+1+2, RDS 4, and so on. )
just avoid getting launched with holding df, d or db to fall face down in the ground and make BT 4 whiff or spam forward (in lings direction) during the throw to imm. turn around and blockpunish the BT 4.
@@donvisione3634 Yeah that's how to deal with the early parts of what I wrote, which is the most important thing. (Because the later part is probably nearly guaranteed for xiao, some ling players on discord mentioned something about specific characters like Raven being able to parry that last BT 4.)
Good advice but you were wrong about the Cali roll, she has 2 other parries from BT stance - one for mids and highs and one for lows. With the mid one she can parry the hopkicks. Best bet is a 10 or 11f jab string or a launcher that cannot be parried, like Lilis Matterhorn. Her df2-1 launcher is also annoying because it has great tracking so expect Ling players to use this when they see you stepping.
@@vishalpanwar2108 cause this is one of the easiest character in the game to get high rank with little effort, and it's quite unfair when you play another characters.
@@vishalpanwar2108 At least you have to play tekken with the two chars you just quote. Ling is litteraly cheating and shouldn't be in the game AT ALL. It's just a matter of time bandai namco realize how broken and unfair she is. It is so easy to win with and so hard to win agaisnt her, that's the point of my argumentations.
The thing is, there's no absolute coubter for xiaoyu, once you get out of green ranks, qns the more you rank up, xiaoyu players will become more different from each other, one may ne poke heavy, one maybe defensive, one maybe keepout-ish, one may be AOP, RDS heavy. so TMM was right with the part saying you need to play against many xiaoyu player, not just one.
@@mmmk6322 im a xiaoyu player, i know how to sidestep properly, its just that when you have and ssr at the same time, you almost dont need to sidestep all the time, most lings including me mostly side step for a mix up between ss4 or ss1+2.
@@chiefchilly1 Exactly I never understood why Alisa is considered gimmicky by TMM she is actually really straightforward, she is one of my favorite matchups.
yeah - issue is that every ling will be different. Some are linear. Others are all over the screen, others are BD centric. You will need a Xiaoyu to practice with as TMM says, but you will also need to listen to the player's suggestions on countering her. I have a guy that doesn't want to listen to me tell him you need turtling fundamentals against her, and to lab her. He refuses to listen, and comes back and asks me to play and still gets beaten by me, and he plays characters I don't know how to punish well. Every six months, he comes back and gets beat again, Last time, he brought a whole session of players to beat me, and I tore them up. This is from not listening. The whole session cleared out. People don't want to listen, and don't want to do the work. Don't be like them.
Yeah I use her when I'm messing around and I'm surprised how much hate I get. I learned earlier on that patience and kicks are key. But you try to tell some people and they just rage on
They all disappear once they hit end of yellow ranks and realize their view of the character, and AoP was incorrect. They think each character can be played the same - learn top 15 moves and you will do well. That is the WORST way to look at and play Ling. Most people substitute AoP usage for learning good fundamentals, like turtling , throw breaking and low parrying, which is why once you hit them twice in AoP, they are essentially useless, with a character that has a safe moveset and awesome mixups. They have to kiss goodbye to all those CH launches and KNDS.
@@c16621 I'd say you are on to something with those statements. I hit a roadblock myself at Usurper/Vanquisher, and was stuck there for a very long time playing Xiaoyu. I'd say I was essentially pure offense up to that point. Then I improved with things like backdash cancels (KBD) and whiff punishing (not AoP whiff punishment but d/f+2~1 and u/f+3 after backdashes or steps) and I quite easily got to Genbu and comfortably stay there (altho I stopped playing insane amounts of ranked once I got there). I've heard a couple of people who played Nina and Chloe at somewhat high ranks (one was orange with Nina, the other tekken god with Chloe), say that Ling is so much harder for them, they said things like "I can't keep the pressure", well yeah they probably tried to play her just like Chloe or Nina cause that is what they were used to, but it's not possible.
"side-step should in your brain equal Xiao going for snake edge" is probably great advice for beginners and a bit beyond that, however when dealing with all the options after she cancels ss3 you can't think like that, you need to be able to react to the ss3 animation and block low, but stand block in time to block her BT 4, and then on reaction block low again in case BT d+4 instead comes out. and basically you need to hit practice mode to train against this. can highly recommend using rbnorway if you do practice mode, in case anyone unfamiliar with their work on tekken char frame data and inputs.
This. A SS3 Cancel goes to RDS1, RDS4, RDS d4 (it's great for people who think the Mistrust is coming and stand up), RDS uf1 (I've been playing with this mixup for a while now, cancels for a 50/50), RDS throws (f or ff 1+3/2+4 - those lows can be crushed :-P), or cali roll confusion. When you do get a backturned Ling, you have to be extra careful. There's a reason her RDS4 is called Mistrust. You think you're safe and can move in.... launched for big damage and oki.
holding foward doesnt work for me. what i do is spam forward (in the direction of ling) if i couldnt brake the throw to turn around imm. and block the BT 4.
Even tho im not a regular Tekken player she was my main evr since Tekken 3, exactly because th way she can just avoid attacks all the while she starting an attack herself. So many amazing memories from the time my buddy played Yoshi and i Xiaoyu. These characters are the quintessence of Tekken (alongside Lei) in my opinion because their movesets are using every aspect of the game, and they can create so many fun situations. To those who hate this character: you take the game way too seriously, while people playing complicated characters like Ling are not only seeking to defeat their opponents, but to make that stylishly.
I believe she also has a generic parry which most people do after cali roll in my experience, so a 15 frame knee attack beats every single option after cali roll if I remember right
Scias, it most likely does beat all her options. Anyway if you get a read on her immediately doing the mid/high (or low parry) from backturned after getting caliroll-rookick blocked then you can snake edge punish that (somewhere around i27 startup lows should all work fine and easy) if you input it almost immediately or immediately after blocking, or use the generic u/f, n+4 (I think every character has that launcher) with a slight delay on the u/f input (much easier to do a snake edge type move as you most likely wont have to delay it at all). Of course if you guessed wrong you might get hit by the RDS f+1+2 and a million other things.
It always makes me smile :) Did you hear him complaining about "lab characters" having snake edges (13:45), when he does play chars with unseeable low launchers ? For sure we don't get to lab that, we can't react to it! loooool That was a nice one :D Anyway enjoy Ling, don't worry for the rant ;)
@@risingnyxs4088 He also loves Bryan, who is the poster boy for snake edge spam, and also has a stronger orbital which he also complained about Ling having. XD
she can get ff3 guaranteed if she's fast enough and KNOWS you're going to lie down, but she gets a mixup if you stay standing. again, she has to know - there isn't enough time to react.
this is much better than the nina video. telling people how to play instead of complaining that some people can't play him... this is great content mainman, honestly. don't fuck with that complaint bullshit just teach your audience how to shut this shit down.
Also she can enter AOP after WR3 even if she whiffs... which means you can't punish her WR3 after sidestep. You have to do a low hitting mid for way less damage
People beginning in T7, i think you guys should really thank these people explaining the game for you, i and many other players that begun at T6-TTT2 where online was a thing, suffered a lot from xiao's and bullshit I myself suffered alot until knew how to counter these chars, and the problem with that is, i spent so many time figuring out what should i do against these, that i didnt knew fundamentals properly, and only now im getting the hang of the fundamentals And i played this game for 3 years, almost 4, and online was with me all the time So yeah, i say thanks TMM and others RUclipsrs that are helping newbies
These kind of characters only make the game worse. I don't know why Harada insisted on adding so many. People that use these kind of characters need a crutch, so they play these kind of characters. Although they'll always lie and tell you it's for some other reason. Always the first to tell you that their bullshit character ta takes as much effort at high rank as your character. Oftentimes they can also turn retaliation attempts into damage as well if one isn't careful. Like I said, they add nothing good to the game.
@@manrightchea they add players and variety to the game Im a kazuya main myself, but i really wouldnt like if every char was hard as him I myself like to play paul sometimes (but paul isnt a bullshit char with strings so i dont think he really counts)
@@Gorecatto It's not so much about difficulty a it is honesty. There is absolutely no reason for one character to have so much bullshit, yet she is only one of many. Steve may be difficult but he's also honest. Beating a strong turtle with Steve is one of the most difficult things to do, yet those that don't know how to fight him think he is extremely powerful. Yet these characters have nothing but lag exploitable crushing moves, back to back to back. I genuinely believe they make the game a worse game. A character does not need to be broken to be interesting. Characters like Steve, Lee, Leo, Nina, Feng and Mishimas including Jin prove that.
manrightchea Too many of such kind of characters do harm the game, yes. But id keep the classic ones (Eddy, Ling, Hwo etc) and delete the new ones like Chloe and you know the rest. The first three add martial arts to the game while the new ones literally add nothing but anger and frustration. There is no point of them existing. There has got to be a balance between the 2 group of characters.
hopkicks won't work on caliroll on block as Ling also has rds 1+4 parry, which is not a punch parry. majority of lings will use that over the punch parry.
King players we have forward 3 (mid) that has a just frame. Df4 is low but has good range and is quick also works against anybody on the ground (Eddie relax lei rest ). If you know they'll do aop on wake up down 32 is great oki. Atlas hammer catches very often for good oki after. I haven't tested if up forward 12 catches aop but it seems it would work .
King's Df1 is key in this match-up even though it can whiff against AOPduck. Uf4 will hit out of regular AOP but can whiff against duck. And then if you want style points he can crouch throw her out of AOP lol
@@Shadow456376 true do y'all think going for the chain throw crouch grab could net you more damage if you get 2 or 3 moves in verses the other crouch grabs.
@@rpgtimefire yeah probs. The crouch throws do like 40 or 45? That's 2 links basically in the chain throw. The only exception would be on forgotten realm since both crouch throws break the floor
She takes twice as long to learn than it is to counter her, because you need to play in your own way and know how to use her move list for your style. She isn't noob friendly like people say. They just get blown up by a few good moves and think that's all she needs. Once you exhaust those options though, you need to get creative. Watch Sodam or some videos from Life Will Change. She's got tech traps, resets, a crazy specific infinite (that is very hard to actually pull off), and a unique aspect that shows that you aren't playing against a character with certain moves, you are playing against a player who can use that character in their own personal way.
Speaking of ff3: CH ff3 can give free RDS/BT 4 on anyone unless they press/tap forward to be able to block it. Xiaoyu herself can't protect against this, she always gets launched and I think Raven has to parry it to get away.
Df1 only works at 0 and catching her going into it. Forward 3 is better at range 1. Flying cross chop is good on any character on the floor at a distance. Df 4 is your best bet at most range.
Her shoulder move is almost never used as a poke because of how punishable it is. It's main use is to punish your opponent, or to hit people who abuse parry (some parries cannot absorb shoulder hits).
Try hit her with low hitbox mids like ws4, a really long range ws4 that helps alot, d2 and its extentions, db2 and extensions. And for whiff punish use mostly shoulder instead dark upper due the bullshit crushing after her moves and try to use throws very seldom, this limits AK gameplan alot sadly.
I put in the wrong command in the comments, d/f1 it hits every time. I guess the animation is more of an elbow down. Did the same thing with roger, hits AOP everytime, always has. To be honest not a king player so mixed up commands. Not sure why the hostility, because your an online tough guy right.
@@Leadblast I never said anything about doing or implied a while rising or full crouch move that was you . I said not the while rising body hook(I corrected myself and said elbow before you ever commented on it)and I do not play king so I did not know it was a fc.
What up main man look ik that if she sidesteps expect to block lows but there's one thing that you forgot when Xiiayu does SS,3 she can quickly go into back side and launch you with while back turned 4 so it's not always a good idea to duck it's a mixup
@@killer-e3210 its possible to block both options on reaction. the cancel is not fast enough. theres enough time to either lowparry or block the low and stand up to block the mid.
It's funny that most of the community thinks Xiaoyu is either flying, or stuck to the ground. Season 2 literally nerfed AOP to the ground, Most moves can easily catch AOP. Arial attacks? LOL. She has a generic 16i hop kick, safe orbital but slow, uf3+4 used as a punisher, super linear?
Just delt with a one round rage quitting Ling player who sends hate messages because I played a nonmartial artist character on Player Match. Hopefully I can just finally learn to beat this character with this video so I dont have to deal with their bs anymore.
TMM doesn't know everything... She has several parries. the parry he is showing is a punch parry, the other mid/high parry just gives Ling a frame advantage. She also have a low parry from BT After cally roll go for a i10, including grabs (that she can break). a shoulder or knee up to i15 might also do it if it is a mid otherwise she can duck highs and get back to block if it's too slow.
No I think it has more to do with the fact that she can effectively render half your movelist ineffective with literally no execution and heavily punish you for the smallest mistakes or hesitation. But go off
@@789tridente Most of the Kings I've played haven't figured out the Ling match up at all. But I'll throw them a lot, since many of them don't practice throw breaks either XD
Check out Peters great videos here: ruclips.net/video/cyaSRrZrPwY/видео.html
He wants to help beginners understand the game!
Mainman: "Xiaoyu is so bullshit, you can make friends learning how to fight her"
Who else hears the hatred in main man’s voice for this character. Lol
I mean the only players that doesnt hate xiauyu is probably xiauyu mains
He's going to lose to a xiaoyu player at evo mark my words
if that characters has both fans and. haters then definitely, namco is doing something right. Greatness is alwayd fed on love and hatred.
@@trilfy He lost to an Eddy😂
@blazeblue 1323 He really does hate Xiaoyu though. He's said it many times.
Ling main here: Here are my tips on fighting her (some are mentioned by TMM)
1. Let her come to you.
2. Turtle hard, because she's extremely minus on a lot of things.
3. Let her whiff things. One of Ling's biggest problems is her range. She can come after you with rolls, wr3, or some longer range moves, but they are all punishable. If she's rolling toward you, she's plus, but as soon as she starts an attack, she'll either be extremely minus on block or whiff.
4. Her biggest asset is that she is a heavy cancel character. Everything can be cancelled. That SS3 snake edge? Cancels for a 50/50. Her uf1 low into Aop? Cancels into crouch for a 50/50. More intermediate and high level players will play this character in a wild, unpredictable way.
5. It's not enough to have stances that can avoid things, because compared to characters like Zafina and Lei, these stances require the Ling player to move out of it quick and react to their opponent at the same time. However, unlike Zaf and Lei, that gives a good Ling a lot more flexibility if they have the chops. So if you see Ling partying, remember that in order to finally get in, she will need to risk being launched. This includes her counter game.
***
6. HOWEVER, her strongest tool in S3 is her RDS1 - CH launch, a follow up 4 that also CH launches (to catch backdashing), and -5 on block. She can't pressure this, because she has no dangerous follow up besides 4, but she will train you with it. If the player has a habit of using the 4, duck and punish. If they don't, block or whiff punish. If they seem like they haven't used that 4 launcher, watch out, keep your distance, and let her whiff it. She's -6 on block after that RDS1,4. If she tries anything there, she'll eat a counter, but most Lings will back off and reset to neutral. Watch out for this move. It's her counter balance to S2 and S3 nerfing AoP hard. They've been making Ling more of a high risk counter character, rather than a sneaky, evasive poke character.
***
7. AoP has a slight side step, so that is why DJs kick was whiffing in the video. This is why many Mishima players will pressure and CD in to reset the angle. However, Ling's weakness here is that it is very easy to get off angle and stay there. Her strings and flowcharts will lead to her whiffing a lot of moves to empty space, while you will have plenty of time to destroy her. If you see it, make her eat a combo.
Thanks for tip information, yet I STILL hate her existence regardless being able to beat her. No offense to you the player, ONLY
the character gameplay design to be respectfully clear.
do us a favor and quit tekken you pathetic excuse of a man
Dude your a legend im save this amd study it religiouslu
@@mapuangames5847 i agree with you ling players are cancer
7:08-7:10 All that pain and frustration in two words.
Whats also great for learning to play against character, is to simply play that character yourself. You will save the moves into your muscle memory and recognize them playing against him/ her. Also you’ll see how your opponents deal with certain moves and can learn from that as well
There are too many characters... no one has time to learn that many. You're not gonna learn all the mixups and weird bullshit that player who have been maining that character for years know anyways.
One of the weirdest concepts that is in Tekken is the "burden of character matchup" that some characters have. I've noticed a lot of people (especially at locals) will try to break down simple concepts in Tekken, things like 10f being almost a speed limit, understanding KBD and it's usefulness, etc are all really simple things. But then you have characters like Xiao where they have things that aren't REALLY standard in the game, where they have so many weird stance transitions or crushing moves and you are forced to learn this nonsense for like one matchup and it'll NEVER apply anywhere else. I guess it's kind of weird because I understand the idea that fighting games are usually all about character matchup but to have tools that opponents can't deal with unless they spend a few hours in practice mode seems really out of place because it means the person using those bullshit tools is basically being carried in a matchup until the opponent counters it.
If you pay attention to ling mains too majority of them do not have a pocket character so once you figure them out it’s pretty much game
this is such a sophisticated comment
Very true
Wow this comment aged well, huh. I learned the Ling matchup soon after in T7 ( though I was slightly carried by Lee's favorable matchup into her for the game) but now in T8, woah boy. She's still cool though, I think most people like her once they realize what she is actually doing most of the time.
@@evangel1460 Lol Yep, Agreed.
After the Cali roll is blocked and you fear the potential parry, you have two "safe" options:
You can punish with a 10 frame like MainMan said or you do a quick knee, shoulder or elbow attack if you have one.
Good luck punishing with a 10 frame, you will most likely get parried
AoP has a very slight SS right movement to it, so certain mids will miss, no matter how low the hitbox. You need to realign with FF or something. A lot of Xiaoyu guides will point this out, and even encourage SS-right to AoP against unaware opponents.
When you predict and want to punish SS 3, you want to pick a move that also deals with SS 4 - getting CH with the faster SS 4 will get you launched.
I love the series, man, thank you for your good work. I'll watch every single one you'll have up.
most Lings use 1+4 parry after a blocked cali roll to kick. the bT f+1+2 is slow and doesn't work on jabs, but DOES work on slower moves.
yup, 1+4 parry is way better too, gotta use knees or i11 or faster string to stop cali roll happy xiaoyu's
If Xiaoyu immediately does the backturned 1+4 (mid/high) or d+1+4 (low) parries (they don't work vs knee attacks among a few other things, e.g. Kings hopkick) you can use a slow i27 or so low launcher guaranteed if you do it on a read and fairly fast after you block the cali roll into rookick (RDS f+3+4, 3+4). Does not show as a punish in practice mode, but that's always the case vs whiffed parries AFAIK.
you can even u/f, n+4 punish it if you get the timing just right, just tested that in practice mode and set her to do RDS 1+4 into standing block as fast as I could after the RDS f+3+4, 3+4. but you have to delay this with a rather specific timing unlike the ~~~i27 low punish.
the RDS f+1+2 parry does beat the i27 low tho (this I have tested vs xiaos ss3) in this situation, and can probably beat delayed hopkicks (I don't know). so you know, once people know that they can super punish the RDS 1+4 parry after caliroll-rookick, the RDS f+1+2 probably then becomes more viable. Not sure at what level this would happen.
actually u/f, n+4 beats RDS f+1+2 after caliroll-rookick blocked, fairly consistently I found out.
also during her back turn she can do b+3+4 its like a back dash but will end up on back turn again, she uses this one to make short linear pokes whif.
How bullshit can a character get when they can duck mids
16:12 when Roddy ricch recorded the box
Careful she can also cancel snake edge into RDS (backturn 4) for a launch when people start blocking it. Probably better to hopkick it.
After Cali roll she can parry any mid/high move that's 12 frames or more, duck slower than jab highs.
So you can't reliably hopkick her out of it, and there is a good chance another caliroll could crush it.
And I mean her 1+4, or 2+4 ( don't remember input ) parry that just gives her frame advantage.
I was just about to post this because I have a friend who plays ling and he does that Calli roll setup into parry. And he used to always parry my hopkicks and punches. That's how I learned that Ling cannot parry lows, elbows, and knees. So when I use king she cannot parry his hopkick bc he uses his knee. But when I use armor king she can parry his hopkick.
@@Leadblast I meant 2+3
if she does either the backturned 1+4 or d+1+4 parry immediately after the blocked cali-roll into rookick, then you can punish the whiffed parry on a read. Easiest way is a i27 or so low launcher, like Xiaos ss3 or bryans snake edge, immediately or almost immediately input it after you block the caliroll-rookick. Also u/f, n+4 works in this specific situation if you delay the u/f a bit.
@@tmat1989 she can parry low from backturned with a different input (d+1+4), gives her a regular low parry combo. however I would estimate it extremely unlikely anyone would use this for a number of reasons, esp. after caliroll-roockick gets blocked as it doesn't beat anything dangerous if done immediately and she gets better reward for just blocking the most dangerous slow lows.
If you want to lab specific moves against Xiaoyu's AoP duck, record her doing d+2 (crouch jab), and then an immediate AoP.
Not wrong as I'm a xaiyou main myself
There's a xiaoyu at orange rank with over 3000 wins who I desperately need to find and hopkick in person.
Shooting them in their hands with a nail gun is a much better option
If you get launched with her BT 4 after the so-shoe-me throw (f+2+3), you can get launched again with the BT 4 after the first juggle. ( f+2+3, rds 4, f+2,1,4 (side switch), f+3+4, d/b or d/f 4, dash, u/f+1+2, RDS 4, and so on. )
just avoid getting launched with holding df, d or db to fall face down in the ground and make BT 4 whiff or spam forward (in lings direction) during the throw to imm. turn around and blockpunish the BT 4.
@@donvisione3634 Yeah that's how to deal with the early parts of what I wrote, which is the most important thing. (Because the later part is probably nearly guaranteed for xiao, some ling players on discord mentioned something about specific characters like Raven being able to parry that last BT 4.)
Good advice but you were wrong about the Cali roll, she has 2 other parries from BT stance - one for mids and highs and one for lows. With the mid one she can parry the hopkicks. Best bet is a 10 or 11f jab string or a launcher that cannot be parried, like Lilis Matterhorn. Her df2-1 launcher is also annoying because it has great tracking so expect Ling players to use this when they see you stepping.
Looneylili.. why do people have so much hate for her? She even got nerfed..but still 😭😭
@@vishalpanwar2108 cause this is one of the easiest character in the game to get high rank with little effort, and it's quite unfair when you play another characters.
@@Sai-tf4sj nope.. Katarina and noctis are .. she also needs skills to play with
@@vishalpanwar2108 At least you have to play tekken with the two chars you just quote. Ling is litteraly cheating and shouldn't be in the game AT ALL. It's just a matter of time bandai namco realize how broken and unfair she is. It is so easy to win with and so hard to win agaisnt her, that's the point of my argumentations.
@@Sai-tf4sj go have a good nap.
The thing is, there's no absolute coubter for xiaoyu, once you get out of green ranks, qns the more you rank up, xiaoyu players will become more different from each other, one may ne poke heavy, one maybe defensive, one maybe keepout-ish, one may be AOP, RDS heavy. so TMM was right with the part saying you need to play against many xiaoyu player, not just one.
The thing all xiaoyu players have in common is they've never learned to sidestep normally. They only know how to sidestep from backturn.
@@mmmk6322 im a xiaoyu player, i know how to sidestep properly, its just that when you have and ssr at the same time, you almost dont need to sidestep all the time, most lings including me mostly side step for a mix up between ss4 or ss1+2.
@@queencard97 "I mostly sidestep for a mix up" is the most ling thing to say haha.
@@mmmk6322 HEY WATCH IT! I don't need to be spoken to in that manner (you're entirely right)
Let's hear you dismantle Alisa next considering you gave her zero time in the character difficulty tier list :D
He has no idea how to play versus alisa
@@9515Niko unfortunately he kinda does unless this Alisa with Eliza video was bad but i think not.
Alisa is so straightforward though. If you've played enough against alisa you should know almost everything
Well he didn't give almost any character time except for the ones he played or pros play. It was just an apology video to nina players
@@chiefchilly1 Exactly I never understood why Alisa is considered gimmicky by TMM she is actually really straightforward, she is one of my favorite matchups.
Peter Mao videos are quality stuff, the most intelligent tekken content creator
Ohhhh let’s gooo
You did make a video on it now I can make my meal
This is good for a new Xiaoyu player. Now I know what moves I need to be more careful with.
this was an excellent video, can you please do king and armour king next, or maybe even jin or askua
yeah - issue is that every ling will be different. Some are linear. Others are all over the screen, others are BD centric. You will need a Xiaoyu to practice with as TMM says, but you will also need to listen to the player's suggestions on countering her. I have a guy that doesn't want to listen to me tell him you need turtling fundamentals against her, and to lab her. He refuses to listen, and comes back and asks me to play and still gets beaten by me, and he plays characters I don't know how to punish well. Every six months, he comes back and gets beat again, Last time, he brought a whole session of players to beat me, and I tore them up. This is from not listening. The whole session cleared out. People don't want to listen, and don't want to do the work. Don't be like them.
Yeah I use her when I'm messing around and I'm surprised how much hate I get. I learned earlier on that patience and kicks are key. But you try to tell some people and they just rage on
What do u play on? Ps4, xbox, pc?
What is BD?
@@Makedeth back dash
@@shadymilkman443 Ah, of course. thanks!
main man spying on me getting my shit pushed in with ease by xaioyu and he aint having that shit anymore.
*TMM releases Xiaoyu guide*
*Xiaoyu player count decreases by 2000%*
They all disappear once they hit end of yellow ranks and realize their view of the character, and AoP was incorrect. They think each character can be played the same - learn top 15 moves and you will do well. That is the WORST way to look at and play Ling.
Most people substitute AoP usage for learning good fundamentals, like turtling , throw breaking and low parrying, which is why once you hit them twice in AoP, they are essentially useless, with a character that has a safe moveset and awesome mixups. They have to kiss goodbye to all those CH launches and KNDS.
@@c16621 Those players have litterally no self esteem.
Fire Lotus, I doubt it, even TMM is too lazy to lab her to any large degree.
@@c16621 I'd say you are on to something with those statements. I hit a roadblock myself at Usurper/Vanquisher, and was stuck there for a very long time playing Xiaoyu. I'd say I was essentially pure offense up to that point. Then I improved with things like backdash cancels (KBD) and whiff punishing (not AoP whiff punishment but d/f+2~1 and u/f+3 after backdashes or steps) and I quite easily got to Genbu and comfortably stay there (altho I stopped playing insane amounts of ranked once I got there). I've heard a couple of people who played Nina and Chloe at somewhat high ranks (one was orange with Nina, the other tekken god with Chloe), say that Ling is so much harder for them, they said things like "I can't keep the pressure", well yeah they probably tried to play her just like Chloe or Nina cause that is what they were used to, but it's not possible.
"side-step should in your brain equal Xiao going for snake edge" is probably great advice for beginners and a bit beyond that, however when dealing with all the options after she cancels ss3 you can't think like that, you need to be able to react to the ss3 animation and block low, but stand block in time to block her BT 4, and then on reaction block low again in case BT d+4 instead comes out. and basically you need to hit practice mode to train against this. can highly recommend using rbnorway if you do practice mode, in case anyone unfamiliar with their work on tekken char frame data and inputs.
This. A SS3 Cancel goes to RDS1, RDS4, RDS d4 (it's great for people who think the Mistrust is coming and stand up), RDS uf1 (I've been playing with this mixup for a while now, cancels for a 50/50), RDS throws (f or ff 1+3/2+4 - those lows can be crushed :-P), or cali roll confusion. When you do get a backturned Ling, you have to be extra careful. There's a reason her RDS4 is called Mistrust. You think you're safe and can move in.... launched for big damage and oki.
13:26 you can also hold forward (in the direction of Xiaoyu) to turn around and nothing will be guaranteed
holding foward doesnt work for me. what i do is spam forward (in the direction of ling) if i couldnt brake the throw to turn around imm. and block the BT 4.
Even tho im not a regular Tekken player she was my main evr since Tekken 3, exactly because th way she can just avoid attacks all the while she starting an attack herself. So many amazing memories from the time my buddy played Yoshi and i Xiaoyu. These characters are the quintessence of Tekken (alongside Lei) in my opinion because their movesets are using every aspect of the game, and they can create so many fun situations.
To those who hate this character: you take the game way too seriously, while people playing complicated characters like Ling are not only seeking to defeat their opponents, but to make that stylishly.
she can also cancel her snake edge into back turn, or while she's doing her snake edge, you can crush it with a hop kick if you prefer a closer range.
Any low crush move that will hit if Ling does ss3 and avoid the 50/50 in case of cancel would have been the best advice in deed.
Better idea - I am dropping DJ and maining Xiaoyu from now on.
But you lost your soul.
But its low risk high reward...I will stick with Bryan tho😥
@@JustN0tMe absolutely, this is why it is so unfair
Dont Leave Dj
Study And Play ling
Then you can return to devil with more knowledge about the matchup
@@JustN0tMe exactly
Also i sold my soul to other devil and it didnt pay off, gotta see if this one will reward me with more salt
Ling "Can" parry hopkicks out of that Calli roll. She cannot parry elbows or knees (for example she can't parry Kings hopkick bc it is a knee)
Can you make a video about okizeme and wake up. I always feel im in bad stuation when oppenent in ground i mess it up so many times
okizeme options will be character specific. Response to getups is also to a degree character specific.
I believe she also has a generic parry which most people do after cali roll in my experience, so a 15 frame knee attack beats every single option after cali roll if I remember right
She has 3 parries from BT, and two from the front.
Scias, it most likely does beat all her options. Anyway if you get a read on her immediately doing the mid/high (or low parry) from backturned after getting caliroll-rookick blocked then you can snake edge punish that (somewhere around i27 startup lows should all work fine and easy) if you input it almost immediately or immediately after blocking, or use the generic u/f, n+4 (I think every character has that launcher) with a slight delay on the u/f input (much easier to do a snake edge type move as you most likely wont have to delay it at all). Of course if you guessed wrong you might get hit by the RDS f+1+2 and a million other things.
Why all the hate?
It always makes me smile :)
Did you hear him complaining about "lab characters" having snake edges (13:45), when he does play chars with unseeable low launchers ?
For sure we don't get to lab that, we can't react to it! loooool
That was a nice one :D
Anyway enjoy Ling, don't worry for the rant ;)
@@risingnyxs4088 He also loves Bryan, who is the poster boy for snake edge spam, and also has a stronger orbital which he also complained about Ling having. XD
7:08
This is me.
I'm pretty sure she has another parry from BT to stop hopkicks
She does.
And a low parry too.
Jab, or Shoulder / knee which are mid & up to i15 can punish it.
Needed this badly thanks
Do one about Hwoarang. He's aids with his low frame kick spam
F 2+3 grab if not broken Hold forward and you Turn around . Instead of goin face down. Hidden tech 👊🏼🇸🇪. Love your stuff bud. 👏
she can get ff3 guaranteed if she's fast enough and KNOWS you're going to lie down, but she gets a mixup if you stay standing. again, she has to know - there isn't enough time to react.
How to counter Ling Xiaoyu: Ask Ling Xiaoyu how to counter her.
@@Leadblast As a ling main, I totally agree with that.
The truth is, this is the best advice to learn all MUs.
Yeah, but why should she tell you?
this is much better than the nina video. telling people how to play instead of complaining that some people can't play him... this is great content mainman, honestly. don't fuck with that complaint bullshit just teach your audience how to shut this shit down.
thank you mainman! i needed this
6:50 This is why I hate xiaoyo match ups
Also she can enter AOP after WR3 even if she whiffs... which means you can't punish her WR3 after sidestep. You have to do a low hitting mid for way less damage
Finally, some good fuckin food
No one wants to learn how to beat Kazuya, I just need to learn how to beat lab bitches
Ima use this chance to mention that Miguel DF+1 or 2 actually has a use here. Fast reliable mid against AOP. And it combos too. :P
Thanks mainman this is really usefull
07:00 cracked me up
Hey the main man pls do a video for lei, im emperor dvj and i dont know how to play against him
How to counter ling:
Make a better game.
Am I the only one who would love a video on how to deal with Dragunov?
Against Art of Pheonix, King's Df+1 and A.King's D+2 is pretty good.
People beginning in T7, i think you guys should really thank these people explaining the game for you, i and many other players that begun at T6-TTT2 where online was a thing, suffered a lot from xiao's and bullshit
I myself suffered alot until knew how to counter these chars, and the problem with that is, i spent so many time figuring out what should i do against these, that i didnt knew fundamentals properly, and only now im getting the hang of the fundamentals
And i played this game for 3 years, almost 4, and online was with me all the time
So yeah, i say thanks TMM and others RUclipsrs that are helping newbies
These kind of characters only make the game worse. I don't know why Harada insisted on adding so many.
People that use these kind of characters need a crutch, so they play these kind of characters. Although they'll always lie and tell you it's for some other reason.
Always the first to tell you that their bullshit character ta takes as much effort at high rank as your character. Oftentimes they can also turn retaliation attempts into damage as well if one isn't careful. Like I said, they add nothing good to the game.
@@manrightchea they add players and variety to the game
Im a kazuya main myself, but i really wouldnt like if every char was hard as him
I myself like to play paul sometimes (but paul isnt a bullshit char with strings so i dont think he really counts)
@@Gorecatto It's not so much about difficulty a it is honesty. There is absolutely no reason for one character to have so much bullshit, yet she is only one of many.
Steve may be difficult but he's also honest. Beating a strong turtle with Steve is one of the most difficult things to do, yet those that don't know how to fight him think he is extremely powerful.
Yet these characters have nothing but lag exploitable crushing moves, back to back to back.
I genuinely believe they make the game a worse game.
A character does not need to be broken to be interesting. Characters like Steve, Lee, Leo, Nina, Feng and Mishimas including Jin prove that.
manrightchea Too many of such kind of characters do harm the game, yes. But id keep the classic ones (Eddy, Ling, Hwo etc) and delete the new ones like Chloe and you know the rest. The first three add martial arts to the game while the new ones literally add nothing but anger and frustration. There is no point of them existing. There has got to be a balance between the 2 group of characters.
hopkicks won't work on caliroll on block as Ling also has rds 1+4 parry, which is not a punch parry. majority of lings will use that over the punch parry.
I’m a Seiryu Ling main. I'm happy to add anyone who wants to spar and discuss my cancerous tactics.
Platform?
@@MaZaCar_Xiaoyu PS4, you?
@@ohacade408 same, and I'm a xiaoyu main, add me: LDNz_Most_W4nted
@@MaZaCar_Xiaoyu Oh yeah you commented on my video. I tried adding you but I couldn't find you on the PS App. I'll try later on my console.
@@MaZaCar_Xiaoyu I just added you succesfully. Hopefully see you online soon
King players we have forward 3 (mid) that has a just frame. Df4 is low but has good range and is quick also works against anybody on the ground (Eddie relax lei rest ). If you know they'll do aop on wake up down 32 is great oki. Atlas hammer catches very often for good oki after. I haven't tested if up forward 12 catches aop but it seems it would work .
King's Df1 is key in this match-up even though it can whiff against AOPduck. Uf4 will hit out of regular AOP but can whiff against duck. And then if you want style points he can crouch throw her out of AOP lol
@@Shadow456376 crouch throws are so risky I rarely bother lol. The recovery is disgusting
@@rpgtimefire lol yeah definitely agree. But the style points are infinite
@@Shadow456376 true do y'all think going for the chain throw crouch grab could net you more damage if you get 2 or 3 moves in verses the other crouch grabs.
@@rpgtimefire yeah probs. The crouch throws do like 40 or 45? That's 2 links basically in the chain throw. The only exception would be on forgotten realm since both crouch throws break the floor
I don't want to know how to counter her, I want to know how to PLAY her. I swear everyone says she's noob friendly but I cannot grasp her kit.
Learn the combos, don't spam aop, check the "top ten moves" videos, always aim to appear random to your opponent. Her strength is in conditioning
She takes twice as long to learn than it is to counter her, because you need to play in your own way and know how to use her move list for your style. She isn't noob friendly like people say. They just get blown up by a few good moves and think that's all she needs. Once you exhaust those options though, you need to get creative. Watch Sodam or some videos from Life Will Change. She's got tech traps, resets, a crazy specific infinite (that is very hard to actually pull off), and a unique aspect that shows that you aren't playing against a character with certain moves, you are playing against a player who can use that character in their own personal way.
Would you consider making your own tier list? With the new DLC's and patches, I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts on the current band of characters.
can you do a tutorial on AK with his point black SW? please? :D
Press 1+2
What about Down 1 or Phoenix cartwheel? I think does might be her best moves. It beat rage drives
Speaking of ff3: CH ff3 can give free RDS/BT 4 on anyone unless they press/tap forward to be able to block it. Xiaoyu herself can't protect against this, she always gets launched and I think Raven has to parry it to get away.
Very helpful!
what can we do with dragonov against her
I don't know why i can't play with PS4 standard controller, the Xbox controller give me the Power in some way 😂
would you mind doing countering nina or lee? those two have been hard for me
after cali roll, d4 is the only thing that she cant do anything. the rest is not guaranteed. lags, another cali roll, parry etc.
you better get good at guarding lows and low parry you can catch her with her back turned but you are taking a risk
As a king main I do have trouble with ling, but Df1 and f3 handle AOP somewhat well.
Df1 only works at 0 and catching her going into it. Forward 3 is better at range 1. Flying cross chop is good on any character on the floor at a distance. Df 4 is your best bet at most range.
Lil majin made a King vs Xiaoyu guide.
They are useful most of the time but both can still be crushed by Aop.
Her shoulder move is almost never used as a poke because of how punishable it is. It's main use is to punish your opponent, or to hit people who abuse parry (some parries cannot absorb shoulder hits).
or Asuka...
Also a great wallsplat punish.
What should I do as a Steve player against xiaoyus cali roll/parry flowchart?
Paul Patterson sonic fang after blocking the first roll kick
don’t sonic fang. You can do 1,2,1,2 string guaranteed as a punish. She can parry anything slower than i11 frames
If Sonic Fang is not guaranteed after a blocked cali roll to kick, it isn't a punish. Use the PUNISHER or it's frame equivalent move only.
I'm a Xiaoyu player!❤
Me too! Keep it up :)
fuck all yall
peach what’s the problem!
@@chillingling Xiaoyu players are the problem
Hworang or Drag next
I have to learn this shit
Im suzuku with ak and overlord xiauyu destroyed me. I missed all my moves lol. Any advice from ak players?
crazy911wman xiaoyu players party at rang 2-4. Summersault will connect a lot. CDws4 to interrupt AOP.
Try hit her with low hitbox mids like ws4, a really long range ws4 that helps alot, d2 and its extentions, db2 and extensions. And for whiff punish use mostly shoulder instead dark upper due the bullshit crushing after her moves and try to use throws very seldom, this limits AK gameplan alot sadly.
Use d2 to hit aop
Can you do a Steve counter vid? He is the bane of my existence
Kings body hook hits aop everytime.
@@Leadblast no his d/f2 was what I meant not his while rising move.
I put in the wrong command in the comments, d/f1 it hits every time. I guess the animation is more of an elbow down. Did the same thing with roger, hits AOP everytime, always has. To be honest not a king player so mixed up commands.
Not sure why the hostility, because your an online tough guy right.
@@Leadblast I never said anything about doing or implied a while rising or full crouch move that was you . I said not the while rising body hook(I corrected myself and said elbow before you ever commented on it)and I do not play king so I did not know it was a fc.
Can you do one for Miguel please?
hey cant you use a back throw after cali role?
yes you can but it can be interrupted
Cant you punish Xiaoyu with a grab if you block cali roll??
Too slow
I feel like I am the only Xiaoyu/Leo player in the discord server for my state.
What up main man look ik that if she sidesteps expect to block lows but there's one thing that you forgot when Xiiayu does SS,3 she can quickly go into back side and launch you with while back turned 4 so it's not always a good idea to duck it's a mixup
Oh her SS,3 cancel you tap back but double tap to be sure she turns her back
@@killer-e3210 its possible to block both options on reaction. the cancel is not fast enough. theres enough time to either lowparry or block the low and stand up to block the mid.
@@donvisione3634 true but if she had the while back turned into 4 fast enough it could be adjusted to the same frame as SS,3 without cancel
It's funny that most of the community thinks Xiaoyu is either flying, or stuck to the ground. Season 2 literally nerfed AOP to the ground, Most moves can easily catch AOP. Arial attacks? LOL. She has a generic 16i hop kick, safe orbital but slow, uf3+4 used as a punisher, super linear?
Xaiyou main here
I would love some Kazuya vs Asuka Match up Guide :) thing is, i FUCKING HATE ASUKA lol
How do I do anything against her using steve
You don’t lol one sided match up for sure
xiaoyu
You mean...
Xiao main here, I need someone to play with anyways
Platform?
How valid is this for season 4, anyone?
Just delt with a one round rage quitting Ling player who sends hate messages because I played a nonmartial artist character on Player Match. Hopefully I can just finally learn to beat this character with this video so I dont have to deal with their bs anymore.
you can hold down after that grab to stick to the ground? man this game... played it for years and still learn new stuff all the time
Doesn't she have a power crush from backturn? Also, I tried to hop kick her and she also parried that too, sooo.......
TMM doesn't know everything... She has several parries. the parry he is showing is a punch parry, the other mid/high parry just gives Ling a frame advantage.
She also have a low parry from BT
After cally roll go for a i10, including grabs (that she can break). a shoulder or knee up to i15 might also do it if it is a mid otherwise she can duck highs and get back to block if it's too slow.
The reason why you hate her mainmanswe is because your playstyle includes a lot about counter hits. That's why you are bad against xiaoyu
Agree. People that wait for Xiaoyu to do her thing will always fall for her tricks.
No I think it has more to do with the fact that she can effectively render half your movelist ineffective with literally no execution and heavily punish you for the smallest mistakes or hesitation. But go off
6:49 King can beat xiaoyu easily, spam d/f1 and risk the d/f4
Dude, that matchup is fucked for king, even majin always says it
@@789tridente Most of the Kings I've played haven't figured out the Ling match up at all. But I'll throw them a lot, since many of them don't practice throw breaks either XD
Suprise this doesn't have 1M views
Ah leave Xiaoyu alone.
No, she needs to be countered by *everyone*
@@justagamethrower Good luck :)
Do how to counter heihachi or devil jin guide next