Agreed. No better way to thin out the membership than PR like this. The more members leave the Church the more ʻrefined’ the Church becomes. This is a good thing. I’m sure much happier not caring about what Church leadership says anymore.
Those persons who cannot support the program are free to seek employment elsewhere. They likely would be much happier doing so. The school is supported by sacred tithing money and therefore must align with the Lord’s doctrine. This makes perfect sense given that it’s a private institution with a spiritual mandate. Again, those persons who cannot in good conscience support the Church’s teachings (or at least not speak ill of them) have the freedom to seek greener pastures. They no doubt are professionally competent and could flourish elsewhere.
Spiritual crackdown at BYU? I sure hope so! It's about time that they put a stop to some of the stuff that some have been getting away with there! There are countless secularly-oriented colleges and universities they can attend (or teach at) if they don't like the moral code or religious posture officially endorsed by BYU.... let them go where the majority have the same mentality as they have! (and tell them, "don't let the door hit you on the way out!") 😂
@rkn2800 @rkn2800 I agree that those whose perception is that there is "fascism" in the church are undoubtedly better off leaving, and will likely lead a happier life outside the church, due to the narrow and negative perceptions and misunderstandings they harbor regarding the church. The notion of fascism in the church is a limited perception that some may have, but the overwhelming majority have a totally different perspective. People are inclined to see what they want to see, especially when their personality leans more toward the negative. Also, I understand and recognize that, unfortunately, there can at times be toxic individuals in the church, and even amongst leadership, at tmes; but, that has ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE, even in the times of Christ and His apostles! The apostle Paul, in enumerating his trials and afflictions, stated, along with a list of additional sufferings, that he had found himself in danger amongst "false brethren". That's not a matter of religion, nor of depraved teachings on the part of the church, but rather is a matter of human nature. If it happened in the ancient church, in Christ's times, you can danged well bet that human nature hasn't changed and it is going to happen in our times as well! Unfortunately, as Christ Himself observed, the wheat and the tares are going to grow together at this stage, for it is not yet feasible to rip up the tares without accidentally ripping up some of the wheat along with the tares. But the bottom line is that overall, to the greater extent, the fruits produced by the church are good, and are a blessing to God's children. The overwhelming majority of the membership has that perspective regarding the church, not the narrow perspective that you present.
@ Glad you agree. Best to leave the hardcore rightwingers there to agree with each other. Those who don’t see the Church as fascist or cultish can also carry on with blinders all they want. No problem.
@rkn2800 Those who have the opposite perspective typically have the same sentiment towards you folks. There will always be naysayers and folks whose outlook is always that the glass is half empty rather than half full.
Wait. You're telling me a religious school would want instructors who believe, emulate, uphold, and teach their religion? WEIRD?!! So crazy. NotraDame should definitely have instructors who think the Catholic religion is wrong. Christian schools obviously should have instructors tors who don't believe in Christ. Come on. BYU is a private school with the mission of teaching the world's truth through the Gospel of Jesus Christ as viewed and expressed by the Church of Jesus Christ if Latter-day Saints. This is something anyone who accepts employment knows. It isn't a secret. You're talking about employees going against what they agreed to do and want to blame those who call them out. If you agree to something, you fulfill that agreement. If you change your mind, you abdicate without whining and accusing the other party of being nefarious. This is silly. You can't expect Coca-Cola to keep an employee who continually asserts that Pepsi is better. And there's so many presuppositions inserted here as fact. You certainly have the right to launch your complaints and criticisms, but you're relying on someone giving you hearsay filtered through bias as complete, accurate, and honest truth. Talk to the man himself instead of this gossip.
If I work for an employer and I go against their mission statement, I would be fired on the spot! Utah law allows firing for an ingrown toenail. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. Professors should not have tenure anywhere.
@@colinmccann7123, whether that claim is quantifiable or not (I am not without my biases here, either), please remember the counsel from President Nelson to refrain from labeling people or relying on labels to form your identity system. If this fellow is not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it would be more helpful to extend an arm of love and progress-aimed support than to call out a label that is (likely) commonly assigned to him. I'm sure we've both seen time and time again, for ourselves, how the usage of name-calling and labels in a discussion lead to arguments with both sides refusing to budge, and a very prevalent hardening of the hearts of any involved. Let's be careful as we consider our engagements in the future, and remember to love others and be kind - not so much *nice* (though many behaviors that are nice should still be exhibited because they are civil and productive), but *kind*. That is the example that Christ set for us and instructed us to follow. ❤️🩹
Create fear, create intimidation and control, and does does anyone positively deal with continuously moving Goal Posts and Temporary Commandments, Corporations are great placing Yes Men in position to execute their agenda, not a surprise,
People who fight against the church they are members of, or use to be, I have learned have had their feelings hurt.or misunderstood Any church that teaches to have faith in Christ is Good. The proper thing to do is to acknowledge positive things They do. The right thing to do every time is to say or do positive things TO uplift each other. Christ Taught correct principles to all regardless of their religious preferences. Why fight or have tension A business has the right to hire people they want. If a person Does 't like what The business requires don't have to work.there! Life.is to short This country was established for People to make choices. Freedom to say or do as they wish. Am I carrying on you are! Drop the negative and be more caring. I know some LDS people I have high Regards for as Well as friends of other faiths
It is a bit shortsighted to think that losing accreditation is a good thing. I am sure that was not what was meant. WE need to remember that free agency is a key part of the LDS theology. To limit that by rules, regardless of their intent, is wrong. I hope that BYU provides good educational opportunities for all students regardless of their religious affiliation. Jesus said his gospel is for everyone so it would be wrong for BYU to eliminate certain people from Jesus' love.
Why would anyone who doesn't believe in the church and the moral/spiritual positions that the church and BYU support, why in that case would such a person have any interest in attending BYU or being in the church? It's a big world, and there's plenty of places for such people to feel more at home.... it makes no sense to do otherwise (if one is not a dedicated believer)
@ True. And why would anyone, if they are a member of the Church, continue to stay in the Church watching how heavy-handed the Church is about maintaining or asserting such control over reasonably thinking people. It’s very cultish behavior. Members watching what’s going on should reconsider their membership and lives.
@rkn2800 Obviously, anyone who is not a believer is going to be prone to take that attitude.... that difference has always existed between believers and non-believers. In the days of Christ and His apostles, they were looked on as a "cult", and Christ even told them that they would see times when those who took their lives would think they were doing God a favor! I say, anyone who doesn't believe is quite welcome to not believe. They have their "free agency" and are privileged to make their own decisions. The scriptures indicate that to the natural man the things of God are "foolishness", and can only be properly understood via the influence of the Spirit; but, everyone is free to choose to believe or not. Those who don't believe will be happier (in the near-term) spending their time with others of a like mind!
@@wa1den According to Elder Bednar there is no such thing as free agency (ruclips.net/video/QLJLte99o90/видео.html). But your larger point is correct, people who used to think the Church had all the answers and was true, and that Church leaders should never be criticized, can stop believing that at any time and leave the Church. They’d be much happier then.
@rkn2800 You can argue 'til your voice gives out on the semantics of terms like "free agency", but the fact of the matter is that none of you are being forced accept the church and its beliefs and posture on doctrine. Long term, though some may grow up with parents and others pressuring them or even insisting that they participate, they ultimately get beyond the extent of such parental control, and the result of that is that if they've been pressured unduly and forced against their will to participate, they rebel and go their own way; so, those tactics tend to be self-defeating. However, that doesn't mean that the solution is to simply not have firm, immovable standards..... that is in fact a necessity. Then, as people mature, if they persist in refusing to be voluntarily subject to the established standards, they are free to seek their own path and go be with others of like mind! That is not a justification for considering the standards to be wrong. It instead means that if you aren't a good match for being a part of a particular group, but persist in being among them and wanting to try to change the group, you are in most instances going to end up facing consequences and most likely will end up ousted from the group. Why should that be a surprise? Particularly in our times, it is unusual for there to be no alternative for folks who don't fit in..... there are others of like mind that they can go hang out with, which is what the rebels at BYU (and in the church) should do. While it is true that it behooves us to try to exercise some patience with them, there is a point where it becomes necessary to say, "ok, you've got your mind made up and it appears that you are unwilling to be open to changing your perspective, so go and make your life with those who think as you do". At some point it's unavoidable to recognize that they have made their choice).
If they are anti LDS then they should not be there. There are lots of other colleges to teach at.
@@annewandering Correct. More people should leave the Church to find true happiness.
Agreed. No better way to thin out the membership than PR like this. The more members leave the Church the more ʻrefined’ the Church becomes. This is a good thing. I’m sure much happier not caring about what Church leadership says anymore.
@ that is a terrible idea. I never suggested any such thing.
@ I think it’s a perfectly logical idea. The only alternative is to stay and subject oneself to fascist rule and be miserable. That’s a worse idea.
Those persons who cannot support the program are free to seek employment elsewhere. They likely would be much happier doing so. The school is supported by sacred tithing money and therefore must align with the Lord’s doctrine. This makes perfect sense given that it’s a private institution with a spiritual mandate. Again, those persons who cannot in good conscience support the Church’s teachings (or at least not speak ill of them) have the freedom to seek greener pastures. They no doubt are professionally competent and could flourish elsewhere.
@@RidingTheHighPlaces Church members who think Church leaders are fascist are free to leave the Church, and they should!
Even better, leave the Church. This is great ‘reverse’ missionary work.
Spiritual crackdown at BYU? I sure hope so! It's about time that they put a stop to some of the stuff that some have been getting away with there! There are countless secularly-oriented colleges and universities they can attend (or teach at) if they don't like the moral code or religious posture officially endorsed by BYU.... let them go where the majority have the same mentality as they have! (and tell them, "don't let the door hit you on the way out!") 😂
There is also a much happier life outside the Church. I agree those who see the fascism of the Church should leave it.
@rkn2800 @rkn2800 I agree that those whose perception is that there is "fascism" in the church are undoubtedly better off leaving, and will likely lead a happier life outside the church, due to the narrow and negative perceptions and misunderstandings they harbor regarding the church. The notion of fascism in the church is a limited perception that some may have, but the overwhelming majority have a totally different perspective. People are inclined to see what they want to see, especially when their personality leans more toward the negative. Also, I understand and recognize that, unfortunately, there can at times be toxic individuals in the church, and even amongst leadership, at tmes; but, that has ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE, even in the times of Christ and His apostles! The apostle Paul, in enumerating his trials and afflictions, stated, along with a list of additional sufferings, that he had found himself in danger amongst "false brethren". That's not a matter of religion, nor of depraved teachings on the part of the church, but rather is a matter of human nature. If it happened in the ancient church, in Christ's times, you can danged well bet that human nature hasn't changed and it is going to happen in our times as well! Unfortunately, as Christ Himself observed, the wheat and the tares are going to grow together at this stage, for it is not yet feasible to rip up the tares without accidentally ripping up some of the wheat along with the tares. But the bottom line is that overall, to the greater extent, the fruits produced by the church are good, and are a blessing to God's children. The overwhelming majority of the membership has that perspective regarding the church, not the narrow perspective that you present.
@ Glad you agree. Best to leave the hardcore rightwingers there to agree with each other. Those who don’t see the Church as fascist or cultish can also carry on with blinders all they want. No problem.
@rkn2800 Those who have the opposite perspective typically have the same sentiment towards you folks. There will always be naysayers and folks whose outlook is always that the glass is half empty rather than half full.
Honestly I don’t think I’ve heard of any better news in a very long time
Wait. You're telling me a religious school would want instructors who believe, emulate, uphold, and teach their religion? WEIRD?!! So crazy. NotraDame should definitely have instructors who think the Catholic religion is wrong. Christian schools obviously should have instructors tors who don't believe in Christ.
Come on. BYU is a private school with the mission of teaching the world's truth through the Gospel of Jesus Christ as viewed and expressed by the Church of Jesus Christ if Latter-day Saints. This is something anyone who accepts employment knows. It isn't a secret.
You're talking about employees going against what they agreed to do and want to blame those who call them out.
If you agree to something, you fulfill that agreement. If you change your mind, you abdicate without whining and accusing the other party of being nefarious.
This is silly. You can't expect Coca-Cola to keep an employee who continually asserts that Pepsi is better.
And there's so many presuppositions inserted here as fact.
You certainly have the right to launch your complaints and criticisms, but you're relying on someone giving you hearsay filtered through bias as complete, accurate, and honest truth.
Talk to the man himself instead of this gossip.
If I work for an employer and I go against their mission statement, I would be fired on the spot! Utah law allows firing for an ingrown toenail. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. Professors should not have tenure anywhere.
Yes. If you don’t like the church, you are free to go.
I've pulled my child out of byu because woke sentiment being shoved out in class. Not academics but woke doctrine, in class.
Children go to public school, University is for adults. What are you doing telling your adult child what classes they should be taking?
I would agree
I agree with you naybortfm
It's about time!
Why does this sound like PBS? I’m going to throw up.
Yes, the background music adds to the public broadcast flavor. Your so right!
The is a big nothing burger. What’s her point? She is trying so hard to make it a story she wants to hear and completely misses the actual story
You are apparently a non-believer !
@@colinmccann7123, whether that claim is quantifiable or not (I am not without my biases here, either), please remember the counsel from President Nelson to refrain from labeling people or relying on labels to form your identity system. If this fellow is not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it would be more helpful to extend an arm of love and progress-aimed support than to call out a label that is (likely) commonly assigned to him.
I'm sure we've both seen time and time again, for ourselves, how the usage of name-calling and labels in a discussion lead to arguments with both sides refusing to budge, and a very prevalent hardening of the hearts of any involved. Let's be careful as we consider our engagements in the future, and remember to love others and be kind - not so much *nice* (though many behaviors that are nice should still be exhibited because they are civil and productive), but *kind*. That is the example that Christ set for us and instructed us to follow. ❤️🩹
YAYYYYY GET THEM OUT!!!
Create fear, create intimidation and control, and does does anyone positively deal with continuously moving Goal Posts and Temporary Commandments,
Corporations are great placing Yes Men in position to execute their agenda, not a surprise,
People who fight against the church they are members of, or use to be, I have learned have had their feelings hurt.or misunderstood
Any church that teaches to have faith in Christ is
Good. The proper thing to do is to acknowledge positive things
They do. The right thing to do every time is to say or do positive things
TO uplift each other. Christ
Taught correct principles to all regardless of their religious preferences. Why fight or have tension
A business has the right to hire people they want. If a person
Does 't like what
The business requires don't have to work.there! Life.is to short
This country was established for People to make choices. Freedom to say or do as they wish. Am I carrying on you
are! Drop the negative and
be more caring.
I know some LDS people I have high
Regards for as
Well as friends of other faiths
Bout time.
"Exposed", that tells you all need to know, normal hit job by radio west and Tribune.
Great move byu, cater more and more to the people who see less and less value in education in general. That wont end badly at all
It is a bit shortsighted to think that losing accreditation is a good thing. I am sure that was not what was meant. WE need to remember that free agency is a key part of the LDS theology. To limit that by rules, regardless of their intent, is wrong. I hope that BYU provides good educational opportunities for all students regardless of their religious affiliation. Jesus said his gospel is for everyone so it would be wrong for BYU to eliminate certain people from Jesus' love.
Another bush league poor imitation of journalism.
Better to just leave the Church and BYU. Less cultish control.
Why would anyone who doesn't believe in the church and the moral/spiritual positions that the church and BYU support, why in that case would such a person have any interest in attending BYU or being in the church? It's a big world, and there's plenty of places for such people to feel more at home.... it makes no sense to do otherwise (if one is not a dedicated believer)
@ True. And why would anyone, if they are a member of the Church, continue to stay in the Church watching how heavy-handed the Church is about maintaining or asserting such control over reasonably thinking people. It’s very cultish behavior. Members watching what’s going on should reconsider their membership and lives.
@rkn2800 Obviously, anyone who is not a believer is going to be prone to take that attitude.... that difference has always existed between believers and non-believers. In the days of Christ and His apostles, they were looked on as a "cult", and Christ even told them that they would see times when those who took their lives would think they were doing God a favor! I say, anyone who doesn't believe is quite welcome to not believe. They have their "free agency" and are privileged to make their own decisions. The scriptures indicate that to the natural man the things of God are "foolishness", and can only be properly understood via the influence of the Spirit; but, everyone is free to choose to believe or not. Those who don't believe will be happier (in the near-term) spending their time with others of a like mind!
@@wa1den According to Elder Bednar there is no such thing as free agency (ruclips.net/video/QLJLte99o90/видео.html). But your larger point is correct, people who used to think the Church had all the answers and was true, and that Church leaders should never be criticized, can stop believing that at any time and leave the Church. They’d be much happier then.
@rkn2800 You can argue 'til your voice gives out on the semantics of terms like "free agency", but the fact of the matter is that none of you are being forced accept the church and its beliefs and posture on doctrine. Long term, though some may grow up with parents and others pressuring them or even insisting that they participate, they ultimately get beyond the extent of such parental control, and the result of that is that if they've been pressured unduly and forced against their will to participate, they rebel and go their own way; so, those tactics tend to be self-defeating. However, that doesn't mean that the solution is to simply not have firm, immovable standards..... that is in fact a necessity. Then, as people mature, if they persist in refusing to be voluntarily subject to the established standards, they are free to seek their own path and go be with others of like mind! That is not a justification for considering the standards to be wrong. It instead means that if you aren't a good match for being a part of a particular group, but persist in being among them and wanting to try to change the group, you are in most instances going to end up facing consequences and most likely will end up ousted from the group. Why should that be a surprise? Particularly in our times, it is unusual for there to be no alternative for folks who don't fit in..... there are others of like mind that they can go hang out with, which is what the rebels at BYU (and in the church) should do. While it is true that it behooves us to try to exercise some patience with them, there is a point where it becomes necessary to say, "ok, you've got your mind made up and it appears that you are unwilling to be open to changing your perspective, so go and make your life with those who think as you do". At some point it's unavoidable to recognize that they have made their choice).
“Open foes”? Or did I hear that incorrectly.
Golly gee! And a private university. What do you know about that! Normal slimey storytelling from a failing publication.