My Full Conversation with Cody from AlternateHistoryHub - Earth's Lost Island
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- Опубликовано: 30 май 2024
- For my latest video I got on a zoom call with Cody from AlternateHistoryHub to ask him about the lost islands we looked at in the video. While I included what I think were the highlights from our conversation, there was also much more we discussed that didn't make the final cut. Feel free to listen and share your thoughts on what could have become of these islands had they made it into the modern day.
Also for a fun time, try counting how many times Cody and I say the phrase "you know," and see if you can figure out who said it more.
0:00 - 19:30 Doggerland
19:31 - 29:30 Dogger Island
29:31 - 36:00 Grand Bank
36:01 - 43:30 Georges Bank
43:31 - 54:00 Santa Rosae
54:01 - 1:06:30 Mascarene Plateau
We should do conversations like these more often. Just place a landmass in a body of water and start worldbuilding haha
Thats one of the funnest excersises to do. If you guys did a series on that I'd watch every ep!
We still have all the landmasses from my Earth's Lost Continents video to talk about 🤔
@@AtlasPro1 Definitely do it
I'd listen to that podcast.
This was a fun convo. Yes to more and with other guests.
I can't imagine Dogger island being isolated from the rest of the North sea region untill the Viking era, the Shetland island were already occupied by 3000bc and had some of the most advanced building in the region of that period on them, hinting at them being a sea worthy people more than capable of discovering Dogger island, even if by accident after straying too far away during a fishing trip.
Also I find it hard to believe that the Doggerland people themself wouldn't develop boats capable of sailing those short distances. Especially if you keep in mind that they probably would have a boat culture from when they had all those rivers running through Doggerland. This culture of river boats could easily develop into a more sea worthy culture as they saw the land being swallowed by the sea breaking doggerland up in smaller islands before only Doggerland was left. And then when they had become an island they probably would used these boats for fishing in the rich sea.
You two should start a podcast!
Okay so this was amazing. Make this into a podcast or something
I would kill for this podcast
You guys should do this more often. This is awesome.
The logical next step is to enter into insanity with Tyler and philosophise on the implications of geography on the average gamer's psyche
And then for some reason begin discussing if Germany won WW2.
@@NBrixH maybe add some talk about Neutschwabenland and hollow earth for peak schizo hours
Them: “Infinity war is the greatest crossover.”
Me, an intellectual:
Literally , the best crossover possible , we need more AlternateAtlasPro , this need to be a series
You missed the TRUE strong point of vikings;
Sailing up rivers.
MORE RIVERS = MORE VIKINGS
Also Norway still has alot of fjords so there would still be a culture reliant on boats.
@@a_literal_lurking_rock I think Norway would have tried to lay claim to the Norwegian trench and surrounding shores as their ships would be stronger.
That is a very interesting take
I like it
Guys, this was a really great conversation. I loved how deep y’all went. Y’all should do something like this again imo.
I feel like Norway would also have a claim to dogger land, they held the Shetlands and The Faroe Islands for quite a long time after the Viking era, so possibly we could see a Norway that either holds onto it till the modern day, or a Norway that loses the island after the Napoleonic wars
I could imagine an alternate version of The 13th Warrior happening on Dogger Island as the Vikings discover the isle and try to take it from the Neolithic people still living there.
thank you for uploading this full convo. I may be weird but listening to something like this with a drink or two on a Friday night is my idea of paradise
You two need to start a series. This is not enough.
More of such talks please!
Could listen for hours
The actual edited videos were both great, but I very much enjoyed the full audio conversation of y'all just theorizing and discussing together! So fun!
I can’t believe that two of my favorite RUclipsrs are making a video together
More of these conversations pleease!
There was indeed a river which ran along what is today the Baltic Sea, it was called the Eridanos:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eridanos_(geology)
See also the Urstrom:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urstrom
Absolutely loved this collaboration. I would happily listen to a regular podcast with you guys as hosts. Could even bring in other youtubers or experts as guests
23:18
Maybe akin to England, we would name it after some of the more recent settlers. Since the island is almost directly in the way of of the migration of Angles, Jutes and Saxons, we might be this island being called "Jutland" or "Saxland"( personally I like Jutland more lol)
There is already a Jutland though
If there as an island there, the invasion of England might not even have happend at all or it might have gone the other way, ere Dogger island might have been the central hub for invasions all around the North sea and beyond. I think that people underestimate how much the history of NW Europe would change if there was an island smack down the middle of the North sea.
@@miotyuori7331 this is what I was thinking too
@@miotyuori7331 Yes! Doggerland might have become the center of a North Sea empire including the British Isles, parts of Scaninavia and maybe parts of the German, Dutch and French coastal areas. Vikings as part of the empire could be a kind of free lance navy and help conquer other countries. That definitely would change history a lot.
With the low elevation Doggerland has I wouldn't be suprised if it would be called the Netherlands instead of what is today's Netherlands as it is elevation wise basically an extention of the Netherlands
hey I love both of you guys. Would love to see more of this like a podcast series
Listend to all of it and I loved every second
I can't believe I just sat down and listened to the whole thing. Fantastic conversation you two held! Really captivating ideas and theories :D
As someone who grew up in Southern California, I don't think much would change if the Channel Islands were united into a single large island (Santa Rosae). In the modern-day I see it becoming basically a giant version of Catalina Island, with a naval base, maybe one or 2 civilian settlements, and the rest being nature preserves. It might even be its own county if the population is large enough? Going back further in time I do think the pygmy mammoths could have held out longer due to the island's larger size, but I am willing to bet that they would still be wiped out by the early Native Americans. Sadly, as much as I wish, I don't think the little guys would survive into the modern day. Speaking of native Americans, I do think tribes such as the Chumash would have larger and more permanent settlements on Santa Rosae. When the Spanish show up, they would for sure settle the island, build forts, and probably construct another mission. I think the island could be an interesting setting for a hypothetical battle during the Mexican American War.
Maybe we get the Californian Revolution taking the island and holding out from Mexico on it
This is gold, you two are a joy to listen to.
What is worth remembering is that prior to the Norman Conquest, England was seen more as a part of the Northern Europe, rather than Western. Only when English kings became also the French nobles, England became involved more in Western affairs. Its economic and cultural ties were to Scandinavia, with first Vikings and later Danish and Norwegian kings attempting to gain control over England (Sveyn Forkbeard, Cnut the Great, Haraldr Harefoot, Harthacnut and Haraldr Hardrada). In 1066 all three claimants to the English throne were using Norse longships in combat.
If we add a Norse culture island right next to Northumbria (and York/Jorvik for that matter) it ties England to Scandinavia even more. Even the Anglo-Saxon people were strongly influenced by Norse culture by 1066. Dogger Island would only amplify it.
Started watching AtlasPro after his 5th video, started watching Alternate History Hub like 7 years ago. This is pretty much a dream
A year later this video is one of your best, this just deep dives into what I’ve been craving from you both. I love this, please make a podcast man!!
Glad to see Cody on here!
Being from Nova Scotia, it's Nice to hear about our ancient history
I would most definitely listen to a podcast of you two discussing topics like this!
Wow, both guys mentioned my home nation of the Faroe Islands (which look nice and big in this map) and even New Faroe Islands. That's so awesome, thanks! Many greetings from the Faroe Islands.
This was a really fun conversation, enjoyed listening! Would love a podcast with you two!
Love this collaboration. Literally my two favorite youtubers
I definitely could listen to these podcasts weekly
This was most excellent!
Yay two of my favourite youtubers together : D
I like Cody just talking about alternate history much more than i like his videos if you guys started a podcast i would 100% be a regular listener
Special thanks to Cody franklin & Caelan kelley, for making this Conversation Possible.
I think you guys should start a geography podcast together where you guys talk about what if scenarios/alternate history, and even topics about lesser known geographic features, or how geography has shaped history, etc, maybe even call it “Geo History Hour” or something along those lines
The Vänern, in Sweden, was the westernmost bay of the Baltic when it was still the Ancylus Lake. If Doggerland hadn't sunk any, the Ancylus wouldn't have really changed either, which would have left the whole of Scandinavia sandwiched between the Gulf Current and a lake bigger then the Caspian Sea. The former is acknowlegded as the reason enough water vapor was diverted to the Arctic to allow the formation of a full-fledged ice cap there, the latter would have created a lake effect much stronger than anything the Great Lakes can muster, even combined, so it's likely the whole region would receive as much precipitation as the windward side of the Scandinavian Alps. Aside from making it snow avalanches every winter, the excess of meltwater, compared to OTL, in spring could quite easily carve the bed of a river connecting the Vänern to the Atlantic, pretty much a dwarf version of the Saint Lawrence.
Personally I think that the hypothetical Grand Banks Island would have been populated pre-European contact, most likely by the Mi'kmaq (of Nova Scotia, P.E.I. and western New Brunswick) or by the Beothuk (Newfoundland) or possibly even Innu. The Mi'kmaq in particular were skilled seafarers at the time with a summer economy based heavily on fishing, sealing, and whaling using specialized ocean-going canoes. 1000 years is not a lot of time for someone to find it out there but once stumbled upon there'd be a strong drive to settle there, especially as the Mi'kmaq were seeking to expand up towards the Beothuk territory around the time of contact. I'd also speculate that this island would be the site of the first French attempt at settlement in 1604 because of its position, rather than Isle St. Croix and later Port Royal. Therefore this would become an important Acadian population centre with much of the French - English conflict of the 1700s centred here and on the ports of those other large islands surrounding the peninsula for similarly strategic reasons. Post 1800 you might even see a situation where these large outlying islands are British territories with fishing and trade economies while Nova Scotia's mainland remains a majority French/ Acadian agriculture and shipbuilding economy with Mi'kmaq minority . We would then see in the modern day either 5 to 6 smaller Maritime provinces including anglophone Grand Banks Island, Nova Scotia, New Faroe Islands and Nova Normannia alongside francophone Acadia. If the Acadian deportation took place circa 1755 then I could see one huge Nova Scotia that later gets split off into Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Grand Banks for administrative reasons, the latter of which especially has been resettled with British and Scottish newcomers post deportation and therefore remains staunchly Loyalist.
I've watched all three videos about this and hope you two do more collaborations in the future.
Can I ask where you get your maps and geographical data? I'm writing stories set in the timeframe of the Last Glacial Maximum when sea levels were at their lowest and need some good sources for what the biomes and ice sheets and proglacial lakes would have looked like and how they could have changed over the course of several millenia. I've found some decent low sea level maps from NOAA, but they don't show biomes or ice sheets, and maps in PDFs I do find tend to be low resolution in time and space. I hope that's not too much to ask. Any help would be appreciated
can't believe so that happened is back
21:23 Um, the ancient Britons and the Welsh are Celtic peoples, who are in turn classified as Indo-European peoples. Did you mean "pre-Germanic" instead?
Just a fun thought: What if Doggerland was Plato's Atlantis? The timeline fits and the area is similar in size to Libya or Asia Minor
best youtube collab since mr beat and JJ mcoullough
So this is a precursor to your guys' podcast, right? Right? 🥺
Santa Rosa would be the wildest tourist destination ever. Right off California with Mexican influence, built in a bay and with pygmy mammoths!!
Ironically, I think Doggerland us the least interesting of these scenarios. With alt history stuff, there's a goldilocks zone of being different enough that it's interesting, but not being so different that so much changes that the world is completely alien.
Please make a podcast and upload on Spotify. I’d listen to you everytime at the gym.
If the baltic sea wasn't connected to the north sea I assume it would look something like the Ancylus Lake. If you still have the ice sheets melt then the meltwater would fill the basin, probably higher than sea level.
Fun you released this.
Interesting. Gota check out his youtube also.
Well this is pretty cool!
I would listen to a podcast of this
I need you two to do a podcast so damn bad now or like just a world building show
The ultimate crossover
You should make a video on the golden age of pirates and how it affected trading and countries
If I can ask, it is possible that an asteroid impact can change the evolution of continental plates?
I mean, for example, we all knows that India and Asia collided and formed a huge mountain chain that today knows as Himalaya.
If an asteroid would have hit the planet between the two landmasses before they connected, would those landmasses have slowed down in the process?
Let’s go!!!!!!!!
During the last Ice Age, Beringia would have connected Eastern Asia with North America. The east-west flow of people would not have been limited to Eurasia, but also between the “eastern” and “western” hemispheres. The Laurentide sheet would have pulled back enough to open land passages all the way down to Tierra del Fuego. I’m gonna let that marinate for a bit.
Mammoth were still alive 10,000 tears back. The last ones gone were the island dwarf type.
The last ones lived on Wrangel island and were even alive when the pyramids were being build.
I'm not mad enough right now to count how many times you two said " you know " .
You two should start a podcast about this topic
Nice video
It's left unclear whether the so-called Aukland Island in the Grand Banks would remain just Norse and/or Basque down through the 20th century, or whether it would have been claimed later on by the French or British (or both) as well.
12:39 when you say except for finland, really it isn't an exception to the divide between slavs and scandinavian, it's an entirely separate culture and group of people. Hell they're finno-ugric and more broadly uralic, they're not even Indo-European. Can't get much of a better divide than that.
Waiting for the 'Alternate Atlas Podcast'!...
I feel like if Doggerland were to still be exposed, then the major event of history would have been different. Without the separation of land masses, there would likely have been similar cultures to the Franks as well as the Celts, but even the Celts would be different. The peoples would not have been as separated from the mainland, meaning that there would have been more regular communication. Perhaps there would be less distinction between the alternate Celts, the Franks and the various Germanic tribes.
Other things that are interesting to think about are the spread of Rome, what an absence of the English Channel, North Sea, and the straight between Great Britain and Ireland. Many of the wars of the past would look completely different. Think about the constant wars between England and France, the Roman Empire, WWII and so many things. Would England have been as great an Empire if they were not an island? England was notorious for their navy, but that likely would not have been as true if they were not an island during the age of exploration.
And, now I'm getting into a rabbit hole of thought that seems to never end. Great. 😑🤣
Podcast please!!
Does Anyone know if Atlas Pro has a Podcast channel?
You guys should also try with the job og C. M. Koseman about Aviasapiens.
'southeast asian settled Madagascar' is like saying Tango dance originated in the Latin world.
Having said that, it is an intriguing concept.
- The Barito-Mahakam river people, who settled here thousands of years ago, would bring for sure banana, sorghum, taro and perhaps rice.
- Trade would start from something not too luxurious till the arrival of Arabs, Indians, Bantu people, and of course, fellow austronesians.
- And then, yes it will become a mini Malacca strait. Or perhaps, something like the Philippines.
- No, I don't think they would all become Muslims. The northern part like Seychelles and Amirante, yes. But the southern part remain animistic until the arrival of missionaries.
- I can imagine the Dutch would eventually colonize them. But, with their brand of colonialism most of the language would remain intact, especially the imagined lingua franca of the region (an austronesian - bantu creole)
- With that, their founding fathers can actually start a nationalist program for the whole area during the decolonization period. Joining the non-aligned movement, aligning themselves with similar countries: the middle powers in 1950s like India, Egypt, Indonesia, and so on.
22:00 why wouldn't the romans or any other pre-norse people make it out to dogger island?
With Europe change that way into a much more land locked continent, I would also say that Indonesia/south east Asia/ polynesians would then become the people to own the high seas and the Dutch would be Indonesian subjects, France would be Polynesian France, Spain would be colonized by the Phillipines, England colonized by New Zealand, Portugal colonized by Maccau, US colonized by Hawaii and so on! That would be the biggest game changer, who masters the high seas first
Wouldn’t the Saxons have taken Dogger Island first during their migration to post Roman Britain? It’d be interesting to see how the diversion of Angles, Saxons, & Jutes onto Dogger Island might impact the Romano-British Kingdoms.
Yes, love this! hello from ireland btw, Ps. Iland gal if you take a look
The fact that this got less views. Disappointed with YT. Beyond that PLEASE MAKE A GEOGRAPHY PODCAST TOGETHER I BEG THE HEAVENS FOR IT TO HAPPEN.
Spice Port in portuguese could be "Porto das Especiarias".
If the peoples of the Norse region colonized the island maybe the island could be called Thule w/ the Scandinavian rulers calling it Thule as the means to encourage settlement of their own “holy land” type thing.
there should be a website that shows all the changes across continents at least and the whole world at most to see the successive land massese and create good fictions
A Madagascar archipelago would be known as the South Indies.
Pygmy War Elephants lets go!!!!
gonna need an atlas pro podcast now
Maybe dogger island was the origin of Atlantis
Cody not knowing the channel islands exist is so American.
Don't think doggerland colors would have to be incorporated into Union Jack. UK was the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland at one point and the Irish colors were not included in the Jack at any time.
The red lines under and over the white of St. Andrew's Cross were taken from the flag of Ireland at the time(Called St. Patrick's Cross) when it was still in just a personal union with Britain. So technically yes, the colors of Ireland were included on the Union Jack. Just not the ones that most of the Irish would have used or wanted. But I mean, where would you have put the harp on the union jack if they went with the other flag?
@@matthewcron8842 Didn't know that. Thanks! I thought those were for Wales. Learn something new every day.
The Welsh and Britons were not proto-Indo European. Also the Angles and Saxons would have had to pass through Dogger Island to get to England, so they would have got there before any 'Vikings' did but then the Celts also had ships and would have go there before even the Saxons did as well.
Please collab again.
If Transatlantica existed, Atlantic provinces of Canada could have join the American revolution. In our time line provinces like Nova Scotia didn’t join America due to Halifax being a major port for the Royal Navy. TransAtlantica would house such port and allowing the maritime provinces to join the American revolution. Maybe weakening the remainder of Canada and America would take over in 1812 something.
It's amusing listening to these two guys getting real excited about naming an Island Auckland, when New Zealand's largest city is already called Auckland.
That hypothetical island would be called Aukland, not Auckland.
omg pog
22:00 sounds like the canarians.
5:04 Porto Tempero em português
Sooo much oil!
You can drag this further. With the dogger existing, there wouldn't be France or the Dutch naval empire. And probably not British either as there wouldn't be much less need to.
That would mean there is no European colonisation effort. Leaving it open for the Chinese and Japanese to rule the Americas and probably most of the world.
Madagascar would be like Cuba
poggers
The Slavic part left out the existence of Uralic and Baltic peoples.
Wtf i just relised how similar you sound.
This would be fun with like a real historian, or even a real History RUclipsr, and not a Viking fanboy. Like lets be real, in a Doggerland situation the Norse culture would have never develop, maybe not even a germanic culture at all since it'll be too cold in norther Europe for complex cultures to thrive. We can just about speculate indo-european culture would have developed in the steppe. Also its disappointed no one suggested its own culture could have developed on that land, and with irrigated flatlands become a powerful agrarian culture .
for Dogger island once again Viking fanboy. like wtf, as if the Romans wouldnt have sailed there.... Also its believed that the Irish reached the Faroe islands before the Norse. Dogger Island would probably first have been settled by non indo-europeans, then invaded many times over by different groups. Furthermore they could have had their own identity too.