Sombra: Overwatch's Identity Crisis
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- Опубликовано: 11 май 2024
- Sombra has always had an identity crisis in her gameplay, but why is that? Time for some good ol' discussion.
Timestamps:
Intro - 0:00
History of Sombra - 0:54
Game Design Talk - 5:59
Questrons Video: • We Have to Talk About ...
Footage credits:
OW1 Launch Sombra Showcase - • Overwatch | Sombra All... OW2
Blizzard Rework Showcase - • Overwatch 2 | Sombra R...
OW1 vs OW2 Sombra by FitzyHere - • SOMBRA GUIDE | OW1 vs OW2 OW1
OW1 Sombra Gameplay (Permanent Invis) - • Overwatch Kafeeee Show...
OW1 Launch Sombra Gameplay - • Overwatch Best Sombra ...
OW2 Sombra (Pre-Rework) Gameplay - • Overwatch 2 - Sombra G...
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I MADE A VIDEO FOR SYMMETRA. STOP SAYING IT. IT'S RIGHT HERE: ruclips.net/video/erOLv5dEb6o/видео.html
hello mr pixelroy, you don't know me but your video intrigued me, i've one tricked sombra since her release all the way back in 2016, peaked gm t500 on console, ending in masters before switching to pc, peaked in masters and now while ultra tryharding on sombra, stuck in diamond. I know I'm just an internet random, but I have a lot more insight into the character than most people would say, I mean after playing the character for almost 7 years and 6 months coming the 15th, I hope that I'd at least know what I'm doing. And while i may not be as high elo as questron, i've played her consistently and still otp her, all though when you can't move past d2, sojourn starts to look more appealing every day. I'd like a platform to be able to speak my mind to people about sombra, maybe have a dialogue with you in a video or something, it's a far stretch but i'm offering you my insight in the hopes that somehow, some way it could bring some change to the character
Sombra has changed a lot throughout OW’s history, but I’d say Symmetra has had significantly larger changes.
Sym is one of my all time faves and to me they butchered her. Sombra is the same. She's either too op at high levels or a throw pick literally in the general pool. Then again. I blame comp and the league but that's me.
@Cwavy_2 yeah I've seen it. That's the other end of it. Teamates being blind to her or ignoring her.
Who else misses the shield
@Cwavy_2she’s annoying but if she’s targeting you that’s when you switch to anyone else go Moira if sombra tries to run you can always catch her with Moira
@@Uroboroslover Pfp (Profile picture) and / or Banner Sauce (Source [Artist])? 🗿
good thing im the only person in history to ever play sombra right
can confirm, no other sombra players have been confirmed to be real
Knew you'd be here Quest xD No Sombra talk with the King himself here
true
i was so immersed in the video that i straight up didnt even realize this video only has ~600 views???? this is GREAT stuff and deserves to be watched more! keep it up!!!!
Thank you sm!!
Only 600 views 3 days ago? Sitting at 18k rn, view count exploded
Pfp (Profile picture) and / or Banner Sauce (Source [Artist])? 🗿
I feel like TF2's spy is a much better-designed stealth character.
He needs to manage his invisibility to position well, because he needs that positioning to secure a kill & stay safe while doing so. If he messes up an approach, then he can really only fight back with the revolver or hope he can get away unnoticed with cloak.
Sombra, on the other hand, has no resource to worry about when she's positioning, and she doesn't have to fight it things go bad-- she can just leave whenever she wants.
Also, just... silences never feel good, especially if you don't have to aim them like Sombra.
positioning is very important with new sombra
@@knyt0 Only compared to the old Sombra, when it literally didn't matter half the time. The bar's so low we're playing limbo.
@@hobosorcereryou play in a bad position with her you will explode
As a sombra player with a ball one trick friend I dont understand everyones seeming inability to hack health packs and why everyone thinks with the nerfs to hacked health packs its terrible. Nowadays hack is so fast she can literally hack a health pack as she runs past it and the hack cooldown is so short unless theres someone going directly for the health pack you just hacked (where theyll be easy prey anyways) hack will be back by the time you even see another enemy. The "healer" side of sombra is so easy and free to use people just refuse to interact or even acknowledge its there most of the time.
please stop spreading this misinformation smh
(i flank a lot and would like healthpacks to remain usable, people don't need to know about this feature despite it having been in her kit forever)
This is such a dumb move. As a sombra hack is your strongest ability and you want it to be available as often as possible, having to use it on a particular health (which the enemy might not even use) is bronze 5 behaviour.
(I play genji so please stop)
@@roka9117i mean if you have a tank like wrecking ball you can be a huge support for keeping him up
Use it in between fights but for the love god don’t use it when there’s a team fight
I think Sombra as a character will always be frustrating, because her character is designed to be frustrating. Even her personality is very snarky, cocky and has that ability to make you feel stupid by cancelling your big ult or catching you while you're alone.
I think compared to her past iterations, she's in a healthier state than before since her main threat is getting quick kills and its easier to chase her down.
Being silenced or dove is never gonna feel fun, but genuinely you just have to become good at keeping tabs on her and prepping for eventual flanks.
I would still love it if hack actually had a cooldown for messing up (like 4/5 seconds or so) and she couldn't just hold right click on people until it worked.
@@Sizzyl It technically does, but if you mess up a hack you're already being shot at for the most part and the enemy has a visual of where you are. So there really isnt a "spam it until it works" unless ur fighting a Rein who's constantly putting his shield up
@@shineyydesigns7696 i'm a tank player and regardless of what tank im on my teammates rarely bother shooting the sombra, so even if i shoot in her direction or block hack with shield or something it doesn't matter, i will be getting hacked 1 second later as she hold right click (seriously, why are people hacking me on roadhog). 4/5 second for a failed hack is enough that I'm allowed to fight the other 4 people on the enemy team without making sombra useless for a fight. could even make it work like discord orb.
@@Sizzyl *you know being hacked makes you take more damage right? Hacking the tank in a team fight is logical, especially when they're discorded*
@@Jahito_EBT not saying hacking the tank isn't logical, i'm saying that it's annoying as a tank to get hacked every 3 seconds. it's the same way that discording the tank 24/7 also makes sense, doesn't make it fun, and it's why zen was changed the way he was (in order to incentivize everyone to not just shoot tank 24/7).
Hot take: my favorite Sombra was initial release, but not even for the "Ult-charge on hacked packs". I actually enjoyed the forced time limits on both Invis and Translocate, making you plan out your route and decide if you want to bail out or keep going if you were doing well enough. Also it was at least interesting in theory to play mind games with somebody on the enemy team who you know would be camping it, adding another layer of both complexity and decision making, especially since you couldn't manually destroy your point and had to wait it out.
I miss how tactical old Sombra felt. Nowadays she just feels like a regular old DPS with very little utility.
I would like to mention that sombras original gameplay design was more support/utility and less dps (being under support) but was changed when playtesters didnt find it fun
she would have hack the environment (somehow) and even hack the payload to make it move, hack apparently had no cooldown or could be interrupted, but had less dps than her current iterations
Wtf that sounds both hilarious and insanely more fun then she is now.
Edit: Omg I just realized she would have been lore accurate to the animated short where she hacks the giant robot arm to lift her up etc. Man if each map had unique hackable stuff like that she'd be insanely cool.
She might have changed a lot during the years, but my hate for her is everlasting.
yet another bad thing that wouldn't be bad if we had an off tank. hack was nerfed/changed so much because you don't have that off tank to peel for whoever's being targeted. EMP now damages because without the off tank she needs more room to deal damage since the fight is essentially 4v5 when she's stealth. virus came about because of higher health pools and because they were stuck trying to balance a 6v6 character to 5v5 and because the previous opportunist damage buff was too strong. and also invis was changed to a passive because controller doesn't have enough buttons. as a console player myself thanks but also the button limitation really holds back hero design sometimes.
Nah i played in organize games and sombra was a nightmare in ow1, she was just unplayable in rank, wich is way worst than now
@@diegocorvalan5435 yeah that's cool. organized games are only a fraction of the playerbase. look at what balancing for OWL did to ow1. they should balance for ranked players not pro players.
Wow it just clicked they develop the game around consoles no wonder it’s been dogshit for 6 years
@@spacejambluray2591 it used to be console and PC were balanced separately. not sure if anyone remembers that. but yeah console does occasionally hold back some games. primarily in the buttons department. that's also why life weaver key binds were so scuffed on release too. not enough buttons.
nothing more rewarding than 180 headshotting the slimy Sombra coming out of invis behind me on Widoww. forget that, hitting a schizo headshot on a fully invis Sombra out of the aether.
It's actually kind of a pleasent surprise when you pull it off to us too. Every widow tries it, every time. And every widow fails it, nearly every time. So when you actually hit it, it actually puts a little warmth in our cold dead hearts. But of course, it goes without saying that the second we leave those spawn doors after that, the rest of your game is going to be hell
nothing more rewarding to make the widow player swap, because she keeps dying...
I remember getting squished by a reinhardt while I was invisible. And I couldn't help but laugh too at the odds
I just really don't like that Sombra doesn't really have to worry about the most skillful aspects of being a flanker: positioning, timing, and escape. She can position anywhere due to invisibility and translocator, and because of that, timing her engages is really easy. Translocator to escape a fight is extremely simple to use and doesn't require much foresight.
Ikr she was designed to be such a safe character with so many get out of jail for free tools.
Y'all don't spy check when theres a Sombra on the enemy team and it shows
Sombra and Mercy essentially teach people to play wrong. The opposite play experience of a hero like Zarya who has very good feedback on when you're playing her well. Brig kinda has a similar problem with the hero being misleading. But Sombra and Mercy are genuinely bad for the game. Invis removes essentially all expression from movement engaging, old translocator was also insanely bad in teaching players about the team fight gameplay loops. Mercy with Res does basically the same. Encouraging bad players die or risk death to revive their tanks who just have more HP to throw at a fight or DPS players who might use an ult to swing a fight. The opposite of support principle of playing your life at all times.
@@killerkingkdNo I do, but you can only spy check so much before you're ignoring the rest of the fight, and even then you might just miss her.
I don't think this is true at all, at least not after her last rework. She still has to worry about these aspects, her kit just specializes in optimizing them. You still have to position well, you just have more tools to get to a good position. You still have to use good timing, because you aren't able to really engage in any fight that isn't just a 1v1. You can kill one person very quickly, but after that, your gun is completely or nearly out of ammo and your virus is on cooldown. Attacking somebody in a large group, or even with just one other person with them at the wrong time will get you sent to the spawn room faster than a tracer can blink.
Now you don't really have to worry about escape, I'll give you that. And that is not the fault of sombras kit. The reason a sombra can escape so easily is because overwatch players seem to lack basic object perminance and are alergic to looking up. The second I translocate up into the sky, the enemy team forgets I exist before I'm even invis again. Its your job to stop me from escaping, not my job to be worse at it, and it's generally really easy to catch an escaping sombra. You just hit her once while she's translocating and it's pretty much instant ggs because you delayed her invis, which is half of what she needs to make a successful escape. This is only with the exception of some very specific situations where map layout favors her. If you just stay with your team, which you should already be doing, and be aware of your surroundings, which you should already be doing, sombra won't be anything but a slight annoyance most of the time. She just punishes playing poorly
Something I always said is that Sombra could work as a Support. Me and my friends have said that it would be cool if she could be more vertile with how she used Hack, like speeding up her ally's fire rate or storing Health Pack HP and use it on her allies. This is not the specifics I had noted down, if you guys are interested let me know in the comments and I'll get more specific.
Mirrorwatch has the right idea
@@curlyboy0128 I will admit I haven't played the Mirrorwatch mode yet.
@@curlyboy0128 I would actually prefer Mirrorwatch Sombra be the new rework for her kit in the base game, but a lot of people on the subreddit seem to hate that idea so doubt it happens.
It just seems like the best way of getting rid of her frustrating aspects while still giving her utility (which is what I think makes her fun). I also just prefer team-oriented characters in OW, as that was the aspect of the game I loved the most from the OW1 days.
@@InsomniacUN I 100% agree with you
What if they changed sombra to a support hero? Mirrorwatch obviously highlights this, but i have thought about it for years. She no longer hacks enemies, but hacks team mates. Boosting their attack speed and health temporarily. Maybe virus becomes a hybrid ability of virus/antivirus. Like Moira’s orbs, you activate virus, you then have the option to throw out virus or antivirus depending on the next button press. Anti virus can auto lock on to team mates like repair pack, offering a healing over time effect and maybe a cleanse or reduced incoming damage. Virus can act how it does in mirrorwatch. No auto lock, damage overtime, and reduced damage output on enemies.
They could change her passive back to increased damage on targets below half health. But also add that team mates below half health receive healing as an added affect from her hack.
This makes her invisibility and translocation her way of evading the enemy and getting close to team mates.
EMP: not quite sure how to approach this, but hear me out. We have seen zenyatta’s new ultimate in mirrorwatch. What if she could place an EMP like that. She places a device and it pulses out EMP like Lifeweaver’s tree. It no longer deal damage to enemies, but it locks them out of their abilities for 1 second everytime they get hit by a pulse. The pulses also boosts team mates and herself’s health, and attack speed.
Her ult would be like kayo from valorant just without it moving pretty much?
I genuinely like this better.
Ironically, according to another comment on this vid, she originally was a support (and sounds like a really fun one too) but the playtesters complained so her kit got gutted.
no one wants this. People play sombra to be a pest, not to help and hack your team.
Watching OW1 gameplay makes me really miss OW1
I have seen this kind of point brought up when it comes to OW hero's transition to OW2. Blizzard is slowly trying to erase the 'utility DPS.' Heroes like Sombra, Mei, Symmetra, and Torb have been reworked to be more DPS-focused. This is a shame because having these heroes who don't strictly adhere to traditional first-person playstyle was fun and made OW unique. Like a MOBA, they had certain combos to get kills and/or help their team. However, Blizzard seems to eliminate these features because they are hard to balance and/or frustrating to play against.
Anyways, Great video analysis!
If I we're to do something to her kit, I'd do something drastic...
Remove infinite invisibility, and don't give it a cooldown, give it a pharah style energy bar, but have it still function as it does when the translocators thrown and refund a small amount of energy when it is thrown
remove the ability lockout on hack and give it to virus with a longer cooldown time and less damage tied to it, but give hack a slightly increased damage buff for shooting hacked targets, it would give hack a slightly different approach, it can be used to lock out health packs, set up your own damage buff and also scout for peoples ultimate charge rate
Besides what I would do to sombra I just really hate virus, what was it supposed to accomplish, because they removed the damage buff on hack for this because you could burst people down too fast, but virus makes it so you can ONLY burst people down fast or not at all and it just isn't fun to deal with, and isn't as fun as just shooting people, now I have an extra step before I delete someone... That's not gonna stop me, and if I miss it I'll just fire a few shots until someone turns around, throw translocator and leave, virus doesn't change the core gameplay it's just there
Lucio and Sombra playing 4D chess.
4D chess: you press Q, I press Q.
All I really want is for Sombra to silence someone for longer than 2 seconds. It was the reason I mained her in Overwatch 1
very good video dude, i learned a lot
Amazing video, sad to see you don’t have enough recognition I wish you the best
Sombra is what happens when you want the Spy in your tf2 clone but you think you're too smart and creative to just make another BORING stealth assassin
Playing sombra should be reportable
Don't you love us lml she's not that hard to deal with anymore
If you can't counter Sombra, you need to get gud.
@@shaneh3109imagine playing a broken character and telling people to get gud can't be me 😂
@@shafikkrisoondatt4002 you could also play a broken character too or can't you ?
@@jirou6228 true but then again I have standards so
I like the new Sombra changes, since the utility based Sombra required your team’s follow-up, but now Sombra can solo kill 1-2 enemies without focus fire.
one thing is sure the game is good when sombra is trash
I second this so much. Not every hero has to be always good. When sombra sym torb and some supp are situational in a meta the game is way healtier
Sounds like a skill issue to me
Another banger, another banger by PixelRory from Butterfly Busters (also sick cameo from the bois)
The reason they removed indefinite translator was that it lowered her mid fight involvement. If she gets low, she can reposition in a way that doesn't take her halfway across the map. Which is important because you can never know where the next fight's going to happen. I think this iteration did increase her mid-fight involvement
Interesting video! Post-Rework Sombra is the most fun and satisfying to play out of her OW2 Iterations for me. Also a lot less frustrating to have as a team member. Virus is irritating to play against when your supports aren’t paying attention but man, is it fun landing them.
Sombra is for players who wanna play overwatch but don’t really wanna play overwatch, if you know what I mean
I honestly like Sombra a lot right now, she's not quite as annoying to play against as she used to be and i also enjoy playing her. She aint perfect for sure though, invis makes her really strong from the concept alone.
as a sombra main i hate her newest rework.... I hate that she has been made easier to play for troll type of players.... the virus ability was unecessary.... i need her to become more of a skilled character again
the ideal and the real kicking in at 14:54 is some fucking superb narrative editing
Honestly I think sombra biggest flaw is just that she’s just not fair to fight. You can’t react, so you’re just hoping she misses, and when she does mess up she just teleports away without any risk. Plus having the best ult in the game doesn’t help
#1 they need to make reaction time before death faster than half a goddamn second maybe but then that limits her lethality as a dps
#2 teleporting away has maybe 50/50 success rate because if the enemy follows your path and gives chase you’re fucked unless you run straight to your team
#3 I’m sorry but that is kitsune buddy
Genuinely beautiful content
I do wish Sombra's translocator was still set in place with an infinite duration, but I like how her kit is now for the most part. She's not very fun to fight against, yes, but I usually use that against my enemies.
If I'm fighting with my team, I hack and ping health packs for my team, and hack whoever is unfortunate enough to be in front of us. If the fight hasn't started yet, I sneak to the enemy's backline and try to assassinate a support or two. Eventually, I don't even do anything to the enemy, just the threat of me being near the enemy backline distracts two or three players, and I realized that I can weaponize an enemy's fear of being hacked or assassinated mid-fight to make them less effective at fighting my team. If I die, the enemy team realizes they won't be hacked, and they can focus down anyone else on my team that they like. If I'm alive in their backline somewhere, then every time there's even a hint to my existence they start firing anywhere other than my team.
Which is why I also think it's perfectly justified to have taken away the permanent translocator, because then I'd literally never die as Sombra.
I'm a sombra main who's been playing her since release (alot less now though) and i really miss pre ow2 sombra with the movement speed increase. I miss translocators versatility with being able to use it for mobility and as a save point of sorts being able to weave in and out of fights and making the at least one enemy look for what I called her hive (her translocator on a health pack) if it was placed. She felt like a true trickster with invisibility and the ability to weave in and out of fights so easily and then having hack as utility to help her team and make her less selfish. She felt good to play and good to have. I was ok with her hack getting a change in ow2 but it felt so undeserving when they gave cassidy the ability to prevent enemy abilities and it dealt high damage essentially making it ensure a kill on squishies. I like sombra now but she just isn't as appealing to me anymore
WOOOOOOOOOOOOO SOMBRA VIDEO
In my opinion, the issue with Sombra and Symmetra is that Blizzard is unable to embrace the idea that they're both heroes with playstyles completely unique from the rest of the roster.
They keep trying force them to play like traditional dps heroes by tweaking their kits to the point that they're basically new heroes.
All which has been worsened by the removal of 1 tank.
Honestly, if Sombra's invisibility just didn't last FOREVER, I think it would be fine. The problem is that she is a character in an FPS... You know, a game genre based on SEEING and then SHOOTING a target. I think it all kinda goes back to TF2. The only reason why the Spy worked in TF2 was because of the limited roster and having dedicated methods for finding an invisible Spy (not to mention a timer on the invis). In a game with such a big roster like overwatch, even if there was a character like Pyro that really excelled at finding Sombra, that character would probably just end up becoming the counter pick against a particularly annoying Sombra and not really have anything special about them. Where the Pyro's ability to efficiently check for spies was an added bonus, at this point it feels like the only way a character in Overwatch could properly deal with Sombra would be to make what is basically a Sombra hunter. A character who deals large aoe damage to find her, has an ability that easily chases down a Sombra after translocation, some method of negating or cleansing the hack and virus, etc. If they want the hero fantasy of Sombra to be the ability to become nearly undetectable, she should be a utility support with the hero identity of being that support who is really difficult to find or sneak up on. If they want the hero fantasy to be her being a hacker (which is much flashier and cooler) she just can't be invisible all the time. It's boring, it goes against the inherent genre and structure of the game, it makes me have negative feelings towards a character who has an otherwise amazing concept, visual design, and story.
Hack being on a 6 second cooldown is the stupidest thing I have seen for a character. Such an ability should have longer cooldown, be a skill shot, or not exist at all.
Sombra and Mei are actually a great comparison!
Mei's old iteration had her completely lock out a character by freezing them, and I personally hated that
Mei now I actually play her sometimes, she's still like a utility dps, but she doesnt just completely isolate solo targets instantly, it requires a bit of thought and throughput because her freeze is purely a slow and not a freeze.
I will now admit, I play a lot of cooldown heavy characters and am often my groups resident tank (lotta doom tbh) so when I say this keep this in mind.
Sombra is in my opinion in a similar spot now with hack. EMP is something I'm chill with staying, more so if Invisibility isn't as powerful, but it's an Ult, it takes time and skill to build and then if is used and requires time and skill to build again, so like, ult locking me out of cooldowns, sounds fine.
But every 8 seconds it feels a bit much.
I have an idea for a change, and it isn't like the most impactful change, but I feel it would lean more into the hacker vibe, the setup and payoff of hacking.
When you hack, the target is now considered hacked like they normally would without the ability lockout. Target using an ability while hacked now increases that abilities cooldowns by 2-3 seconds.
The idea here would be that instead of a jarring stutter in place as your buttons don't work, your equipment malfunctions and requires longer to become usable again, essentially reallocating the lockout time and creating a tradeoff while fighting a sombra who can easily run away: Do I fight with no abilities cause I don't want to mess up my rotation or do I fight with my abilities and be off cooldowns during the fight // do I run and recoup with a bigger downtime than before or chase and have no abilities when I get there to fight sombra
Been playing since Sombra's release and she's never not been my main.
Her stealth isn't the problem (honestly as of Season 10 of Overwatch 2 this is maybe the most perfect and managable her stealth ability has been both playing on it and against it.)
The problem in my eyes is moreso the refusal to lean heavily into making Sombra Offensive v/s. Debilitating.
droping the ratio to 30% hinderance and 70% assassin would literally change player perception of her, it would force Sombra mains to be more aggressive, which would drastically change win rates and pick-rates, but would also get Sombra's killed more often as a result.
Keep stealth the same, Translocator is ... depends on a few other things, but give Hack an enemy limit (like she can have 3 enemy players hacked outside of EMP at a time, and said hack lasts for 8 seconds and removes their abilities for 3 to 5 and very drastically increases damage done to them by an immediate 30%).
That alone turn Sombra into a juggling assassin, and would make number-nerfing actually valid.
the support hybrid playstyle is why i love her so much i think, especially after seeing the mirrorwatch version of her. as i do play a big amount of support and that constant feeling of constantly calculating and making choices on the fly and reacting accordingly just gets the cogs in my monkey brain going, as she's more than just x get in a good position and y shoot at enemy until dead and z blame the support when you die.
I stand with you on my favorite sombra to play was hack damage boost. But that might be because I was a bias player who liked my free out of jail card.
I've been a Sombra main since her initial release and I've always thought she should be a utility support. It would just allow her to lean more into the hacking elements (maybe even hacking teammates to boost them) and would play into the helping from the shadows, mastermind character thematic that I feel she's always been meant to have. Helping teammates for her own purposes (like renata glasc) would fit her theme and make her a unique, kinda selfish support.
Would love to see the same type of video for Symmetra! She has some of the same points, her not quite always being utility or damage. Plus the amount of changes @.@
Sombra as she is now is good for the game. In between all the tilting other players there’s so many valuable lessons everyone learns. I’m picking on Zen? They switch to a more mobile support now my job is harder. Hack a Moira or Cass out of ult? Now they confirm whether I’m alive or dead next time they do it. People start being able to predict where I’m coming from or notice the sound queues and send me running by defending my prey. Heroes that can chase me when I teleport like Genji learns to dash after me so I can’t reset.
She’s the most fun I have as DPS cause there isn’t a ceiling on how to engage. Same reason I love ball because hook and is whatever you want to make it. I don’t play annoying heroes to win I play them because I care ❤
i disagree
completely agreed. she's one of the few truly unique heroes left (i feel like most of them have slowly become very homogenized since ow2 launch) and although it's frustrating to die to her, each death is a lesson in gamesense
I get this is counterwatch and I'm usually ok w dueling a Sombra that is otherwise engaged with the team, but it's genuinely frustrating to be a main of the most immobile supports and to get a Sombra that is insistent that you don't leave spawn
Agreed, this version of Sombra has a lot you can actually do against her outside of knowing when she is coming, which is down to game sense, kinda makes it baffling people say she still has no counterplay. They literally made this rework to introduce counterplay into her kit. But people fundamentally still need to predict when she's coming and I guess on average people can't or don't like doing that, so she will remain frustrating.
(Also, sorry Zen players, I'm not camping you in spawn because I can, but because my insufferable tank player actually baby rages when they get Discord orbed and I'm doing it to protect my ears.)
@@jaredschneider9662 depending on who/what you're doing there is genuinely nothing you can do. Especially on the tank role. If there is a cree nade AND sombra hack constantly coming your way, the CD cycle is genuinely unavoidable.
imagine if she got tf2 equalizer’d
Honestly, I'm curious what you think of the Mirrorwatch Sombra changes in regard to her having more Utility? (If you mention this in the Sobra video then nvm. I'll be watching that after this one lol)
Good video though! Pretty high quality tbh.
I've only played one match of mirror watch where I played echo (I liked everything about her except the stickies but anyway) while I didn't play Sombra one of my friends who loves her was and he was saying he really preferred that version since he's always been a support payer who enjoyed Sombra so he wanted her to be more utility focused. I need to give her a try in mirrorwatch but based on what I've seen blizzard could move in a direction of hack buffing allies and people wouldn't mind. Personally I love abilities that work on allies and enemies with a different effect for both so I'd find it interesting
@@PixelRory That’s fair! Everyone’s a little busy lately lol
Hope you enjoy it though!
Honestly, I did like Sombra’s playstyle in Mirrorwatch, but it felt like they sort of flipped the character’s role, so, instead of being an assassin with some utility, she became a utility hero with the ability to assassinate.
I do thing a hero should have an ability like Mirrorwatch Sombra’s Hack, but it feels out of place to replace her normal hacking ability with it, and it might be too strong to give her both.
Definitely do hope we get to see a damage hero with that sort of play style in the future though. It makes you feel like you’re pretty much always contributing to the team, and it doesn’t feel like you’re as vulnerable to the feast or famine issues that some people run into while playing Sombra.
Just my personal thoughts on it though lol. Was curious what you thought, and I’m glad to see it too^^
Honestly wonder if they’d do some sort of test in the future where Sombra’s will have the ability to hack enemies and allies. Having it linked to the same button would likely be a bit cluttered and perhaps a little too strong, so I’m curious what they’d do in that case (I don’t think making her a support that hacks to buff with left click and debuff with right click though).
Immediately got another idea after posting this lol. I could see them trying out having 2 different modes for Sombra. 1 Virus and 1 Anti Virus Mode.
You could swap with some button before you’d go on a cooldown and be stuck in that mode for a little bit. While in that form though, you could buff or debuff depending on your form.
One could be focused on the more assassin like playstyle while the other is looking to do more support.
It could be something where you could swap between or learn just one of the modes. Sort of like Sheik from Smash Bros if you ever played it. Zelda and Shiek were 2 characters in 1 for a while, but some people just chose to play one of them instead of both.
I feel like the cooldown would have to be rather high though. Not Mercy Rez levels of cooldown, but upwards of 10, most likely. Just enough for it to feel like you’re committing to one of the forms for a team fight. Being able to swap between forms in a fight would more than likely be too strong if both forms were effective by themselves.
Sorry! I’m rambling a bit. You just helped me get the idea is all, and I can think things out better when I type it.
Thank you for the response though! It was nice to see what you thought of the changes. Looking forward to your next video!
(The top two options in the poll right now are really compelling btw^^ Snappy titles are a really good way to get clicks. The thumbnails are decent too! Excited to see your channel grow in the future ^_^)
@@BandannaBread The things I'd do for a form switcher in overwatch (an actual form switcher not rammatra)
I like the rambly comments like these so no worries at all! I'm also editing the orisa video right now and losing my mind since blizzard said yesterday there's an orisa change happening today ._.
@@PixelRory Ooh! Looking forward to the video then.
Didn’t know about the Oriss change coming out today either lol. Could maybe see why the change is and aim for a weekend release if it’s impactful enough?
All you probably need to do is add in a bit like “Okay, I know that Orisa had some patches changes that dropped on April 30th, BUT, in my defense, I had this all scripted out and recorded ahead of time. I’ll talk more about Orisa’s new changes later in the video, but I’d still like to show you guys what I was thinking before we know about these changes to give you better context for what’s coming up later in the video.”
Probably need to shorten that a bit, but something with the general vibes should work. Tldr; Address that there has been changes, but it is important for them to hear your thoughts about the state of Orisa before the latest patch in order to help them better understand what you’ll be going over later.
You’re essentially answering an unintended question that a few people would have coming into this video, make them a little happy for them getting the assumption right that you’d have to mention it, and then entice them with expanding on info that they came into the video with later on.
It’s basically just a hook, deliver, and hook again strategy lol. Gives people a reason to keep watching if you answer and deliver on questions that they have.
played last right before Sombras release your vids are fun even though I don´t understand a thing
Love the spork analogy
i love playing Sombra throughout all iterations, but this current Sombra is EASILY my least favorite, and if i didn't have 100+ previous hours on her i would not be bothering to learn this hero. i don't enjoy the assassin gameplay at all. i like being a sneaky debuffer/disabler that works with the team, not going off and getting solo kills by throwing some stupid cube at the enemy. and, i agree, Virus is a clunky ability and i hate it so much.
also, just to answer your question about Sombra 1.0 of "if you wanted to provide utility, why didn't you just play support?" because i love utility way more than i love healing. my favorite type of damage hero in this game is the one who can dish out a lot of damage themselves while also buffing and enabling their team and being able to deny areas. Sym, Sombra, Mei, Torb... AKA "the annoying no-skill ones" are all my favorites because they are DPS heroes that keep Overwatch being a team game at the forefront and i love being a swiss army knife in hero form.
And then there's Mirrorwatch Sombra........ maybe let's not dive into this rabbit hole xD
Also while this can always be edited in the game, I never liked how by default they had her Virus on Shift and Translocator on E. We all go for Mobility on Shift and Utility on E. Moira fade on Shift, Mercy flies on Shift, Reaper Wraiths on Shift, Illari twirls on Shift. It kinda felt like an oversight that the devs went with because "players can change it" and while true, concerns me on their level of dedication when making a hero viable.
Im not a high ranked player but I am a sombra main. I love her play style all iterations of her were fun for me. She's a slightly more conplicated character to play and this newest iteration of her actually keeps her out of stealth more than it keeps her in it. She is designed to be up in the fray of a fight and yes an easy escape but if you're playing against a team that chases her tp doesnt do much.
I think her invis is the best its ever been cause yes it is perminant but its so easy to pull her out of it with hack or virus or even just firing her primary. With her visual range its actually makes it harder for me personally to not get caught cause it's such a wide range.
Idk like i said im not high ranked but I love playing her.
I think the ideal version of Sombra was the one before the current rework, but I agree that it was an annoyance to fight against. However, the current one is the absolute worst she's ever been. I hate the rework so much I unbinded her virus ability so I wouldn't use it accidentally if I were to pick her. Which used to a bit frequently but now it's extremely rare.
My ideal version of Sombra would be ditching the worthless virus ability and switching it back to invisibility so you can control when to use it. I would also change her translocator so it's more like Loba's bracelet in Apex.
Cut her in half:
Make Sombra more inclined to Tracer with virus, invis and a shorter hack, rework EMP to something more inclined to assasination then hack. Then make her other half a support with a mechanic to use hack to buff alies with shorter CDs and a overheatlh and debuff enemies wih the hack of released Sombra and an utility ult
A fellow small commentary youtuber ay? Good luck on your road to 1000 subs! I enjoyed the vid!
o7 same to you
worst thing I hate about Sombra is how unpunishable she is when 'missing' hack, she never gets put on a cooldown, and hell, even missing is a challenge when she can hack you directly through walls
I feel the LoS and/or range should for surezies be nerfed, potentially with compensation but peeyeww, she feels super unfun to play against as almost any hero I play
It sounds like the invisibility and hack are dividing the character. I think to fix this we should combine their utility - hack can support invis like being stronger/having special effects like hacked enemies not being able to detect Sombra (not playing fair as Sombra likes), and invis can support hack like rewarding Sombra for leaving invis to hack. Antivirus and transloc already line up with hack and invis respectively - perhaps they could gain benefit from invis and hack?
If it were up to me, I really think that I'd wanna bring back original 8 second invis, with the speed boost. One of the most respectable skill expressions was how you could bamboozle people with just a small window of invisibility... I think maybe transloc should have a 10 second fizzle timer on it? So it forces you to either take a DM quickly, or get in, drop a quick hack/EMP and dip back again? Or use it mid-fight as a panic tool.. it keeps its identity, and versatility, while not making it a tool that does too much, or only has a single use case. I think hack during invis would be fine like this, but... I think hacking someone would automatically uncloak her, and start its cooldown... there are ways to keep sombras vibes of like... master manipulator cerebral assassin vibes, while giving her utility, /and/ adding to her skill expressions while keeping her fair to fight against.
Oh, and Also, since this is my fantasy, she can't hack Lucio anymore because he uses a VPN or something :)
I like a lot the support-dps aspect of Sombra. But as a support player, mainly Ana nowadays, I just can't play such a frustating character.
And Ana is frustating enough on a Tank perspective, but I find Sombra worse on a support perspective.
Maybe I should give her another try to change my mind just like it changed with Tracer when I was new to the game. Until there, I will still smile with Mei as an utility based dps.
I played Sombra back in her first iteration and then stopped playing Overwatch for years. I only recently started playing again, and the hardest change for me to reconcile with is the translocator. Although I can imagine a few reasons for the change, it felt so much more rewarding to use after planning and placing it in advance. Its current state feels clunky to use and usually results in my goofy death.
Stealth going from 65% to 50% speed boost was because the DPS passive at the time was 10% faster movement speed at all times, not after an elimination. They did the same with Soldier: 76’s Sprint, going from 50% to 40% speed boost. These changes were reverted after the passive was changed.
Since her kit is so heavily focused on denying value, Sombra will sadly always be one of those "if SHE is good, then the GAME sucks" characters.
In that way, she's actually pretty similar to the post-launch supports they've added, like Lifeweaver
There's a difference between denying value through specific cooldowns, and being able to deny value all the time whenever you want with no cooldown. Hack is a problem.
I think original Sombra invis can work cause like, if its on a timer, she only has a specific sphere she could be. The infinite invis i think is the biggest problem causer. And yeah the long hack sucked to be hit with, but the trade off was her lack of damage. And bad hacks were annoying, but didnt do anything.
Good video, tbanks for bringing this stuff up!
Last ow1 sombra was the best by far, I really want that version of her back I got her game. But it won’t work because they stupidly made the game 5v5.
That version was imo the most tactical and I loved that about her, rn she just camps your sup in spawn without giving them the chance to fight back. L blizzard fr
1:00 would it not be symmetra? obviously sombra has been changed a lot as well, but symm was changed like 8 times in 2016/17 alone lol.
..I forgot about syms existence
Sombra getting Ult charge from Health packs again would make her S tier immediately. so we should totally do it *laughs in Spanish*
this is why i don’t constantly play. i’m casual i’ll come back every few months and half of the heroes are always reworked into the ground. i don’t like learning a new hero using the skin and identity of an old hero.
I agree with OW2 Sombra being my favorite to play, opportunist passive was just so much fun play with and this is also the version that used LIP to hold OWL hostage lol.
Stealth is literally the only reason why i enjoy playing sombra
I`m a fan of the Sombra rework, having her be closer to her allies helps to tie the team together for fights. The thing that I despise about the new rework is that stealth auto-activates, I wish I could toggle it on and off like before. They removed the button to reset her translocator, they should have added an option to toggle stealth on that button. It`s a quality of life change.
i played console for ow1, and sombra was my absolute fav bc gamesense could make up for a lack of mechanical skill, and going into ow2 i really miss that ability to go for risky picks, tp away, and i think ow2 has been phasing out some of their lower skill floor heroes which is a shame
My idea: After being stealthed for 5 seconds every 3 seconds Sombra gets highlighted by a random enemy.
Idk of this helps, stealth is just really bad
8:22 Mexican viewer here. I legit have no idea what you tried to say LMAO (educated guess: "Hola, Coño" on the second one; 1st one is 100% illegible lol)
Good video btw. I really miss the old invis animation :( [and the opportunist passive]
Ps: Launch sombra done correctly looks like it would be a blast to play.
"Most reworked character"
Mercy and Symmetra:
To me and my friends, she's the reason we stop playing for the day.
another game already perfected this archetype, Drop the safety net of TP. She should be a utility with HIGH risk when she goes in for an assassinate. Stealth in, disable/hack and maybe go for a kill wth a plan to get out and possibly make it. or throw yourself at their supp or a annoying dps and wipe out with them.
Solution? Split the 2 DPS roles into Bruiser and Damage roles and the 2 Support roles into Utility and Support roles, this would help Tanks out a lot and give the characters a lot more identity with the expanding roster
I love randomly stumbling across other Irish RUclipsrs!
as a certified sombra hater i really like how her new version plays in terms of shooting.
if invisibility is truly the problem maybe the answer is a sound cue? echo kind of hums as she glides and so does mercy, so how about a low drone to indicate there's a sombra maybe 10m out of detection radius. soft enough where it can go unnoticed when there are guns firing but perceptable to the lone Zenyatta walking from spawn. --though i guess this could be shot down with how accessible OW is and that the sound cue subtitle for those hard of hearing is a bit meta even if you have working ears.
i personally enjoyed timed invisibility. it taught how to be as quick as you can with infiltration without getting caught.
really miss the old passive seeing ppl through walls that was the only thing I was hoping they wouldnt remove last rework and they did, virus feels a bit awkward to use at sometimes and I dont get why it doesnt do more damage against hacked targets it only applies the damage faster? The damage on virus is negligible because you can get healed right through it, overall she is definitely in her most balanced form right now imo just miss a few parts of her kit maybe she could even use a tiny buff lmao maybe applying virus to targets you hit with your ult would be cool
she's tf2 spy except tf2 spy have a counter(pyro) while sombra has none
i’ve been playing since 2016, but took a few months off from ow2 and i didn’t even know she had another rework tbh 😂
Blizzard needs to leave her alone, even if she so called to strong. They need to look at other heros, buff them
A sombra the old version we loved how she worked, but it was a pain dealing with heros like hanzo Cassidy
Buffing other heroes won't make Sombra any less fun to fight or deal with. You just don't want Blizzard touching your broken pick.
Dive pharrah has always been my shit. Brings me back to playing solly tf2. Oh yeah good sombra vid 👌
I actually like this version of Sombra the most out of every iteration, playing her before felt like this clunky mess with no real direction. I am probably in the minority here but Sombra's real issue is her right click hack. It's just weirdly incongruent with her kit, and her identity now. Half the time you don't even hack you just virus and shoot. Hack is saved for very specific moments, like a rein pinning a teammate. I don't think that Rein is gonna find that interaction fun at all. Hack should be stronger but only exist on her ultimate and she should get a different right click. It'd feel a lot better for a ball if Sombra had to ult to stop Ball's movement instead of just holding right click for pile drive. Though these are the musings of a plat sombra main that only started maining her like 6 months ago.
Sombra can literally be described as a "Skirmisher" they play like that role yet that doesn't technically exist in Overwatch. A Skirmisher isnt a main DPS their job isn't just to do Dmg but to stir up chaos causing disarray in the enemy team's teamwork. But this role fantasy was never meant for Overwatch when it was first made.
Sombra is such an easy hero to throw with because you are not getting any value
4:30 you are wrong about this, they were talking about the permenant movespeed passive dps heroes had in the beta, not the one that gave you movespeed after kill, the change made sense.
Sombra will probably be forever exist in an unplayable or be broken state. And that is because she is never acted upon unless she initiates.
If you face sombra, you lack the ability to deal with her until she decides to deal with you, which a good sombra player will only ever do in conditions favorable to them. (unless they screw up) This dynamic is comparable to widow during her ult - there is no bad engagement for the widow unless they screw up or pick it.
This comes back to a pattern I long since noticed which transcends not only games but genres, platforms, even the digital medium itself and extends to board games and even some team sports is that any time any multiplayer activity, as in - an activity where two or more people are supposed to interact - introduces an element which takes agency away from one or more of the participants, that's where the problem lies. it is always the same.
Seriously, I dare anyone and everyone who may read this to tell me what frustrates them most in any given game, be it a shooter, strategy game, card game, board game etc., I promise you, it comes down to loss of player agency.
13:32 this play is FOUL, I love it
I've been a sombra main since like 2016/2017 and current sombra is my fav version of her. Like I liked her utility heavy era a lot, if I'm being honest it was the reason I even mained her in the first place. But then as I was getting better at the game, I've started to like her stealth assassin more and more. Like doing combos like emp shatter was great, but what I loved doing the most was to force ennemy supports into playing FNAF by being a fucking walking screamer to them. Meaning I liked each of her rework more than the last because they leaned more and more on the assassin playstyle
And current sombra is the closest to an assassin she's ever been and in my opinion she's never been as fun to play than currently
I would perfer have Sombra be some form of support that enables teammates the knowledge of knowing where the health pack is while having hack be a little different where it disrupts but not be oppressively annoying.
*Symmetra has entered the chat*
I think she is really fun now, mutch mutch more so than ow1
My least favourite aspect of characters like sombra and widow is that you have to always assume they're there because you get no warning before it's too late.
So you spend your entire time avoiding long sure lines entirely and firing randomly into corners, doorways etc. and making sure at all times your back isnt exposed without support.
In Sombra's (very light) defense; at least she couldn't one-shot you, like a certain invisible frenchman.
My favorite aspect of sombra is when nobody chooses her in a match and I can play at least one game out of 20 without being constantly dove by her on cooldown while my dps and tank are too busy picking their noses to peel.
not the “hola coño” 💀💀
Sombra is Overwatch’s identity crisis? *laughs in symmetra*