It’s not just black players experiencing racism, every thread I read has multiple comments about “the privileged white girl” or “the great white hope” then you have the comments calling Clark a man. As loved as she is, Clark deals with a lot of hate too. Also, according to another rookie, Clark has a special whistle, let’s also hold the player or players accountable that go on social media and stir things up.
I feel like people are using CC as a vehicle for hate and grievances and it’s not even anything she’s done wrong. The media and the league need to get these women media training and support and change the narrative
I don’t think that all the media training in the world will change a narrative that the media itself created in order to gin up views because misogyny, racism, sexism, and overall hatred cells more as entertainment to male viewers (who are the main supporters of major sports networks) Then women’s basketball… Tend to view women through an objective gaze… And would rather listen to men degrade women then to learn the sport. Plus, the narrative actually started way before Dianna or Sue spoke it started when Iowa beat South Carolina and LSU, then beat Iowa…the narrative for being an angel and angel being the devil (ironically) was then created.
Some maybe but the same could be said of why CC has been underestimated by so many . Not just underestimated but belittled. Take Turasis comments about CC, she said “next question “ as if CC doesn’t exist. She didn’t even wanted to acknowledge her existence. That’s incredibly insulting and offensive.
@@crs1474Turasis comments before Clark got to the league was she would have learning curve before she finds her rhythm. Which was accurate giving it took her going into & right after Olympic break to get comfortable & catch fire. Turasis has always been known to be highly competitive; for better & worst has rep of being a hard a** She an’t treating Clark no different then any other player especially number 1 draft pick.
Like who? nobody can give an example... and im not talking about strangers online. Do you see what people say about NBA or NFL athletes? If you want to be a serious league, you cant get upset at trolls online
The thing about the "I've never seen aggression like this pointed at a single player" narrative is that they've made it abundantly clear that they never watched or cared about women's sports and its athletes.
Thank you for this as a white, gay women from Indiana I have spent way to much time having to explain my fandom to people who have never heard of Tamika Catchings. There has been anedoctal evidence that increased ticket prices leads to an entitlement of trolls hurl abuse. I think the WNBA is more anedoctal proof of that and the need much better security in games. Also I think their should be more research done on the increase in sports betting leading to abuse. Aliyah Boston discussed it in a post game interview after the Sparks game abuse she was getting for not meeting peoples bets. All that being said THERE IS NO PLACE for ISMS or PHOBIAS.
If I could have given this podcast 10 more thumbs up, I would have. Thank you both for saying what I've been feeling. Having grown up in Springfield, Massachusetts (home of the Basketball Hall of Fame), I have been a lifelong fan of women's basketball. I remember watching Rebecca Lobo set the Massachusetts high school scoring record when she lived in Southwick, before she went to UConn. I was there when the WNBA first started, when the Sun used to be known as the Miami Sol, when Becky Hammon was the Liberty's spark plug. In other words, I go way back. The same newbies who either watch or cover the WNBA and are now "experts", are the same ones who watch Olympic sports every 4 years & suddenly become "experts" in synchronized swimming and curling. They didn't get the memo that the WNBA has always played physical and yeah, women can ball; always have, always will. Rookies are always going to get tested, no matter what sport it is. The best will always get tested, no matter what sport it is. Thanks again for telling it like it is. I love your podcast.
It's the in between the lines "Nuanced Racism" that people try to play ignorant and hide behind every day ! That we experience in Sports, Media, Law, Corporate America ect. Respect to you both for calling it out !!
Thank you for addressing this mess in an honest, open, knowledgeable way. I LOVE basketball, played in jr. high, high school and college but I am done with the W. The media trolls, who know NOTHING about basketball, and the pathetic media who are always looking for the negative, incendiary and divisive angle have killed it for me. As a women I am excited about the growth of women’s sports but all of the “ isms” you addressed have reared their ugliness and it is going to end up permanently damaging any further growth.
I agree. I’ve been a fan of the W since the VERY 1st game in 1997. It’s been enjoyable and exciting for me. I LOVE women’s basketball w/ a passion because they are very competitive and physical - RAW. However, this season has been the ABSOLUTE WORST ever. This sh*t has NEVER existed to this magnitude bc it’s been so protected. Now it’s on the front line and being attacked by “casuals”. I hate it. It’s unfair to existing and past players as well as for the 2024 Rookie Class. Most of them didn’t get the eye that they deserved. I hope this will go away this off-season.
Boston is a really good reference point for the particular issues raised in this episode. As a South Carolina fan, I saw that she was on the receiving end of all the vitriol from the media, "fans", and some coaches (*cough* Geno and Bluder *cough*) who were not careful with their words to the media. Then when Caitlin joined her on the Fever the events in the clip played out and she eventually became a beloved player to this same community. She has a very unique perspective on this issue as both an "insider" and "outsider", and I wish more people would listen to what she has to say because there is a lot of wisdom in there from the past 4+ years of having to live through this narrative.
Clark has always denounced hate. Anyone blaming her & her fans for the antics of online trolls is manipulative and unfair. She has no control over online trolls. The majority of Clark's fans have been a huge positive for the WNBA.
The loud minority claiming to be members of her fanbase are making it difficult for true fans. True fans respect CC. They would not treat her friends & coworkers with such disrespect. It's one thing to talk smack about someone's game. It's quite another to talk smack about the PERSON.
@@JessiFayS As I said online trolls will do as they please because they are chaos agents. However anyone blaming Clark and her fans for the racist vitriol being spread online can't be taken seriously because unfortunately racism has always been a part of the WNBA and society as a whole. Clark has NO control over what trolls do or say. She has denounced the hate numerous times but she can't cure racism. And players falsely blaming the racism on only Clark's fan base is manipulative, disingenuous, unfair, and dangerous. Like I said the players and league need to amplify all of the positives that Clark & her huge fan base have brought to the WNBA. Stop amplifying hateful trolls and stop using them as cudgels to beat Clark with because she has done nothing wrong and doesn't deserve the resentment from players, coaches, and refs in the WNBA. The WNBA should ignore the trolls, embrace Clark & her fans, and amplify the positives.
@@JessiFayS Y'all must not understand how sports, fans, (fanatics) and freedom of speech works. Yes, rival fans do talk about their rivals personally if they feel like it. And sometimes their own fans if they feel their player was playing terribly. This is where we are headed though. Sticks and stones no longer apply. That is why censorship is on the rise. You could lose your whole business if you just say the wrong thing. That does not sound like freedom of speech. The whole reason for this being in the constitution was for inappropriate speech that may not be so pleasant. We are becoming snowflakes. Criticism is now racism.
@@Fuglicia-is7ozif you listened to the podcast, you will recall Sue saying that it is completely different in the context of women’s sports. Having people use sexism, racism, and homophobia against women is completely and totally different than men hating on other men. I am an avid NFL fan. I am a season ticket holder to the Packers. I know what a sports rivalry looks like. This is not what is happening in the WNBA. If you are not a woman I don’t think you can comprehend the fear that the kind of violent rhetoric these players are on the on the receiving side of can instill. Male athletes do not have to worry about hateful comments online turning into stalking, harassment, and possible physical and sexual assault. Dijonai Carrington was receiving comments calling her slurs and wishing for her to be sexually assaulted. That is not even in the realm of normal or acceptable sport rivalries. Even Caitlin Clark was subject to sexist and sexual comments DURING A GAME from a fan of the opposing team calling her and her mother a sexist slur and wishing she is traumatically injured. There is a difference in the language used and what the loaded history and the context behind that language. Men using sexist slurs and insults and wishing and threatening sexual assault is absolutely unacceptable just as an everyday occurrence in society and especially when it is aimed at a professional athlete DOING THEIR JOB. Me saying that Brayden Narveson sucks and couldn’t consistently make a field goal if his life depended on it is different than a man telling a female athlete that she is a dirty [insert slur of choice here] and deserves to be sexually assaulted because she ruined their parlay or fouled their favorite player is not okay and should probably have them added to a watchlist and banned from social media And if people cannot control their behavior enough to act like decent human beings because they lost a bet they made of their own free will, then we should just ban sports betting again because obviously they’re not mature enough to handle it.
@@Fuglicia-is7oz This is a fair point. Case in point...if you look at an MLB, NBA, NHL or NFL insta post after they post the score after a loss, the majority of the comments are something like "F*ck everyone!" "Fire everyone!" "_____ vs. the refs" "So and so is trash" "Worst team ever" or some other kind of hurtful comment. If you look after a WNBA team or NWSL team loses, you'll see a few comments like that, but the majority of them are "you girls tried hard!" or "we're still behind you!!" or "You'll get them next time!" It's a really stark difference. So, yeah, this kind of trolling has been going on forever, and a lot of male pro athletes have learned how to deal with it, which isn't necessarily right, it just is what it is.
Thank you legends for this. People like you guys calling it out exactly how it is, is so so so important and I’m so proud to be a fan of yours. I’ve watched and been in women’s football since a child and experienced so much discrimination. I’m a “recent” WNBA fan for a couple years now. And this year has been heartbreaking to witness. Thank you for speaking up. It’s so refreshing
Thank you for using your voices!! As a recently new "fan" of the wnba I was witnessing the media but could never understand! As a white women, don't think I ever fully will but appreciate your perspectives and the insight!! ❤ Thanks for helping me grow, and I hope this helps others too!!
One of the most important podcasts on CC and the WNBA to ever come out and much overdue, a convo by one of the most respected GOATS of the game talking about a game shes spent her life connected to. Easential to any fan of CC and the W.
This was a great conversation, Megan and Sue. I love what you said about wanting to just shut up and dribble. Both the league and the WNBPA absolutely need to do more. The WNBPA must support all their players: Skylar Diggins-Smith, Dearica Hamby. And even Caitlin.
Great conversation, Sue and Megan. And yipes. Well, the comment section is not checking out. A couple unbiased folks appreciating this conversation, and a lot of other perpetuating the exact thing they're speaking up about here. Like if you aren't going to listen to people who live it and have experience dealing with all of this, you're just not intellectually curious.
For sure. Disconcerting to see some of this thread as though either they didn't even listen to the podcast or can't accept the points which are all clear and well articulated.
Exactly! It's crazy how these women are speaking THEIR TRUTH, and speaking facts as athletes...yet so many comments are gaslighting them like their stories don't matter. They only have empathy for Caitlin. It really is a cult and I don't want nothing to do with it. This is why I can never be a Caitlin fan. I respect her level of play, but it has to stop there
@@arepas Yep....these Caitlin stans....the just flock to stuff like bees to honey. It's like they see her name and just fly in to defend their insane narratives and not even listen to the discussion. Many of them in the comments here clearly did not listen to the podcast. They just saw her name and wanted to flood the comments.
I appreciate so much of what you said and your measured voices in the midst of a lot of noise. I think you’re absolutely right that the early narratives predisposed people to see evidence of what they were expecting to see based on those narratives. I also feel curious about the ease of calling out the -isms when it relates to historically marginalized groups and the challenge of how to reasonably and respectfully comment on the treatment of a straight white player (or having that player be a favorite) in the league without that being seen as encouraging or engaging in white privilege, racism, homophobia, or diminishing others in the league. To be clear, I’m certain there have been racist, homophobic, misogynistic acts in the mix. But not everything labeled as such has been so. That’s a part of the nuance that is also missing from the conversation, I think.
Thank you! Thank you for this conversation. Thank you both so much for doing the pod and having this talk so people can learn and build the fan base! Much appreciated!!!!
Thank you both for displaying responsible leadership and speaking on multiple essential levels which impact the game and the lives of the women who make it so authentically tremendous. 👏❤
Sue...with all due respect. You and I both know she was targeted on a few of those. Come on now. Lin Dunn actually had to make calls to get them to chill.
She said not targeted more than typical, given she was a high profile rookie in major sports. Did you actually listen to the whole podcast? This is part of the whole "nuance" thing they were talking about.
She was targeted by one team, and that one team flagrantly fouled her - brutally - 4 out of 4 meetings. If you have league pass, look it up. Onyenehere, Carter, Diamond, Reese.
@@lindadunbrack6498 You make good points....All high profile rookies get "targeted" to some degree. Do these people thing Candace parker, or Sue (Sue even talked about her experience), or Diana, or Breanna Stewart, or Maya Moore and many others that came into the league with a lot of hype weren't "targeted?"
I feel like Sue has so much more to say but is holding back. She's knows what happens behind the scenes. It's like she touches the fire but but backs off to not get burned
Agree. This behavior aimed at newcomers to the league has been going on for years. Difference is, with Clark now in the league, everyone is seeing it. The W has to clean up their act or it may fade back into the position it has been in for years.
I wish Sue would bring up Swoopes misinformation that was a huge reason why many people were mad at legends "hating" on Clark.. maybe she does im still watching podcast
I agree with everything said here with the exception of their take on Christine Brennan . Her line of questioning was not out of line in my opinion in fact it’s probably one of the more refreshing moments in this w coverage. There was a lot of toxic discourse online regarding all the speculation on that play and what she did is allow both players , let’s be real DC wasn’t the only one asked. The opportunity to denounce the online arguments, that was that. It was the WNBPA’s reaction that threw gasoline on the fire. That is what it was so we need to be honest about it, true journalism is never comfortable, if you want truth you need to have difficult conversations and that is the problem with the W.
Christine Brennan is pioneer in the field and and champion of Title IX. She done a lot of good for women's sports. At the same time she's controversial figure and was banned and unbanned in a sport before. Saying all that, I think her wording with "swatted" wasn't the best, but at the same time she asked a perfectly legitimate question, gave Carrington an opportunity to respond.
What about the hate that has been hurled against Caitlin, like that post showing someone point a gun at her. How is that not scary for her. No one ever talks about the hate thrown her way
This is such a crazy lie i can’t tell if you’re joking or not 😂 Even this one videos comment section is full of people taking about CC being tHe rEaL vIcTiM oF rAcIsM…. If she dips out of the league, it won’t be because of what happens on the court, it’ll be because of the creepy obsessive weirdos who are clinging to her coattails for their own agenda.
Of course not . And why , is the most simple why ever… 1. Straight 2. White 3. Not a Drama Queen . The world doesn’t like those people, and doesnt rate them. And the sad thing is that if Caitlin starts fighting back , all those that bully her on the court and off , would say : seeeeee ??? She is awfull right? Ive been trying to to tell youuuuu!!!! So basically this is gaslighting to the max. Very female like , and unfortunately for CC there is no known defense for that in this kind of world we are living in today. Where the truth and facts are not important as false victimhood , throwing word privilige around not knowing what it means.
Literally everyone is talking about the hate “thrown her way.” That’s the point. Almost no one is talking about the racist assumption that Black women are animalistic heathens while Caitlin is an innocent white damsel in distress. It does a disservice to all of them, including Caitlin.
The Core problem of the targeting Caitlin Clark narrative would not exist if the referees would call the fouls on her. But not one player was thrown out of a game this year for flagrent fouls against Clark and the Eye Poke from Carrington was just ignored by the refs just as many rekless closeouts like on her first 3 pt attempt in the second playoff game vs the suns from Bonner. And the "protect Caitlin from Techs commitee" is just there because Caitlin wants to chew out the refs, because they are not protecting her from getting injured that is not compareable to other players "targeting" Clark (one is fouling the other is complaining about the fouls to the refs).
In that same game where DeWanna Bonner committed a landing space foul against Caitlin Clark that wasn’t called, Erica Wheeler committed that same type of foul against Marina Mabry that also wasn’t called. You are attributing intentional disregard to an action that can be easily explained by incompetence. The WNBA refs are well known for their incompetence and it has absolutely nothing to do with Caitlin Clark, save the fact that she’s brought more eyes to the league and those eyes are simply seeing the horrific officiating for the first time
@@ginteeThey're so sad and deluded. 🙄🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ Instead of seeing that players are showing respect for her shooting prowess, they can't be convinced that she's not being "picked on" by "jealous women"(or worse terms).
The comments from the people who claim to be Clark and Indiana fans in this comment section are actually proving Sue’s point! 1- Clark does not need the protection and infantilizing of those who benefit from her viewership because they created a protected narrative. She really is a great player and is deserving of the fame, but not the narratives and agendas that are attached to, her basketball. 2- People who are defending Clark are not talking about the racist images of Clark as Derek Chauvin on George Floyd ask Carrington) neck nor how Clark’s own teammate had racism herald at her for dropping passes. 3- People are exposing themselves and their isms!
You're 100% right! They don't WANT to listen to Sue Bird and Megan's comments and testimonies. They just wanna believe the lies they've created in their head that everyone is out to get CC! It truly is an illness
Excellent and informative conversation. Much of the media seems to only care about creating outrage to create clicks. Thank you for calling them out and educating us all.
I think Christine Brennen was actually doing her "job" in asking that question and was giving DC a voice to say her truth. The internet was relentless in showing that clip over and over accusing Carrington of intentionally trying to poke Caitlin in the eye. Let us remember social media unless corrected will condemn a person. For example, Caitlin was accused of doing the John Cena "you can't see me" to Louisville Player Hailey Van Lith. When in actuality Caitlin did the gesture to her on bench and strength coach. But it never got corrected and social media ran with the false narrative. The false narrative was picked up by Angel Reese and Angel Reese thinking Caitlin was being disrespectful to Van Lith did it back to Caitlin. Creating such a total mess there was a meltdown on social media ALL BECAUSE OF a false narrative that was never corrected. Christine Brennen should be thanked for asking the question not vilified for letting Carrington address it! Carrington should have been prepared to answer the question - she had to have known it was coming considering the social media attention to that play!
Had Brennan been "only doing her job", she would have had no need to ask the follow-up question bc when she asked DJ if the eye poke was intentional, she said it wasn't. So why would you ask if her and a teammate were laughing about it if she already told you it wasn't intentional and she didn't even realize it happened at first? Brennan came in with her own narrative under the guise of unbiased journalism. I don't care what her past accolades are. She has lost all sensibilities trying to write this book about Caitlin.
@@lshereej5553 Both questions were necessary because both of those clips were going viral and were very damning of Carrington. Carrington was given the chance to respond, and she did. Chennedy Carter handled a different way she didn't respond when asked about her shoving Caitlin to the ground. And what happened next was Chennedy was hounded. DC should be glad she got the questions, and it was smart for Carrington to respond.
@@lshereej5553and you think criminals don’t lie about what they did and why they did it? Did you see the video later in the game where Mabry and Dijonai were joking around and Mabry pretended to poke her own eye out while Dijonai laughed? THAT is what reporters do. Or lob soft questions for them to answer. Have you heard the pre and post games questions asked of players? They basically are asked leading questions where all the players do is say ‘yeah…’
Regarding the WNBA players association, I disagree. Have they supported 'all' players or just a certain social group of players. If the WNBA is going to be 'inclusive' they need to be 'all inclusive' protecting all players including their minority players: white, asian, native american and hispanic. Christine Brennan asked Caitlin the same question she asked Carrington. Did the players association come out to protect and speak up for CC? Did anyone?
@@BlueLetters13 Yes, yes that's true. Though I think the media has badgered Caitlin all year and tried to bait her with questions pertaining to race and online harassment and how does she feel about it and what her colleagues are going through, etc. 1st half of the season it was non-stop for her to have to deal with. You could tell she was exhausted and fed up. Not once did the players association come out and say, hey, stop it. that's enough. Instead, they let it continue, until Carrington was asked, yes in a baited and really stupid question of 'did you do this'?. Why only now step in and protect this player.
@@margiesavage3222Ma’am, I know you’re a fan of Caitlin Clark, and I’m a fan of her game as well. She’s an exciting player to watch… But are you really saying she needs player’s union protection from being asked questions about the harassment her fans are giving other players?… The difference between her and Dijonai is Dijonai was already receiving death threats, and that reporter was trying to push a narrative that could get her harmed. Caitlin is not in the same boat. I hope you can see the stark difference between the two.
@@BlueLetters13 The topic here is media asking loaded questions to bait players into a response that can be used against them in order to write a story that incites hate. Do you believe Caitlin hasn't been under the same pressure from media that could cause her harm, though she travels 24/7 with a security guard? And can't go out in public safely without one. Has been harassed incessantly by people like Antonio Brown. You say the harassment that Carrington is experiencing and death threats are from Caitlin fans. I don't think these are Caitlin Clark fans. These are mentally ill people who are not fans that Caitlin is responsible for. I guess that's the difference between your thinking and my thinking. You're feeling that Caitlin hasn't experienced any harassment by the media which this topic is about and doesn't need protecting by her own players association. But when Carrington is asked a question about whether she intended harm to another player, then you feel that bated question deserved the response from the players association to call the journalist out. So they're only there for her, but not for Caitlin. I disagree with you. I think Caitlin deserved protecting long before this question was ever posed by Christine Brennan to Carrington. They should have come out and made a statement a long time ago and they didn't. Instead, Caitlin has had the support from people like Shannon Sharp telling people to lay off of her. Because her own association wouldn't do that. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'm actually a huge fan of Carrington. I think she's a fantastic defensive player and I always look forward to seeing her play against Caitlin. It makes for a very exciting game. But this has nothing to do whether you're a fan of one or the other. This has to do with whether the media is doing their job appropriately or not with regards to all players. And if players are going to be protected by their association, and if so it should include all players. If this is an inclusive association, it should be an all-inclusive association.
SUE BIRD for the win!!! I like how you talk about this. I don't like them targeting a fan base or new fans. There is a narrative that if you like one player you have to hate the next which is furthest from the truth for real fans. You can root for everyone if you want.
So everybody deserves equal treatment except Caitlin Clark? 🤔The WNBA put out a narrative targeting Caitlin Clark fanbase by attaching it to trolls while ignoring that a majority of the trolls representing other teams have been abusing CC more than Anybody, remember that pic of Dijonai choking CC? They started it then, hypocrisy, we'll never stop calling them out
I've been watching basketball for close to 50 years. I have NEVER seen what Carter did to CC when the ball WASN'T EVEN in play! you people are denying the obvious. And even the refs are horrible in the way they call the game when CC is involved. Case in point, CC wasn't allowed landing space while attempting a 3 pt shot against the Sun in the playoffs and no foul gets called allowing Carrington to score in transition. That's a 5 pt swing that altered the game! At least make an attempt to be objective. That's all what the fans are asking in your analysis.
Did you see what Clark did on the play before? Then you understand what happened… And that does not justify the amount of virtual or hatred. That Carter got in response… Someone literally went to her tour bus and tried to approach her! But no one talks about that!
@@HonestLeighSpeakingthe tour bus incident was debunked. Didn’t happen. I saw what Caitlin did on the previous play. It was nothing and it was in the context of a basketball play. Carters was blatant. I like Chennedy’s game but that was targeting.
I have like a million times by a million players in the W .... in the NBA, etc. Right here on RUclips there are thousands of compilations of rough play in the W
This is CC Stan talk. Kelsey Plum talks about getting completely decked by Diana Taurasi a couple of years ago, very similar to what happened with Chennady and Caitlin. But, she just got up, dusted herself off and kept going (Like Caitlin did), and no one made a federal case of it.
@@DollFaceKilla please. It's a sport. Do you know how many times players get "hit"? Brennan's question was a race bait. Carrington answered it professionally, but Brennan followed up with another unserious question. Brennan has a fetish for Clark, and she wanted the attention.
I am a huge supporter of Megan and rhe NWSL. As I’ve begun tapping in to the WNBA, I’ve been shocked at the racism and hatred pointed at CC. It opened up the possibility of a backlash toward the players who were targeting her with cheap and brutal fouls. As far as the Carrington questions, it is perfectly appropriate for the reporter to give the player a chance to answer the questions that are still circulating the net. I don’t think the reporter had a negative point toward Carrington. Finally, when the WBNA players realize that most of us don’t want to see the rugby matches on basketball courts the popularity will spread out. BTW, it’s not her being picked up full court. It’s the Chennedy Carter type blind side body checks with Reese cheering on the bench.
Thank you for devoting so much time to such an important topic, I really appreciate the athlete perspective. I really feel like the media has totally lost the plot here and are assuming because CC is so popular people only want to hear how great she is and it leads to the antagonistic-driven narrative and a hyperfocus on 1 person that isn't helpful for that player (CC), the other (amazing!) players, the fans or growing the league. I'm an Iowa City native - CC's popularity in Iowa was driven initially by being family-friendly, accessible and super entertaining. People loved that their daughters looked up to these players. People came for CC and then became completely attached to her teammates. My love of Iowa WBB led to me learn about so many other B10 players, SC's dominance, Angel, Kamilla, Cam, Juju, Kiki, Hannah, even Lynnette Woodward. I was looking forward to learning more about W players this summer but it really hasn't been as fun. I don't know how we went from a spotlight at Iowa that shined broader the brighter it shone to one at Indiana that feels so hyperfocused like sunshine through a magnifying glass burning up everything underneath. It sort of reminds me of NBC's olympic coverage in 21 and 22 where Simone Biles and Mikayla Shiffrin (among others) were so hyperfocused it detracted from everyone else and was an impediment to them vs the paris games where it felt like they finally shifted to a broader view, broadcast the stories of the day (not predetermined!), amplified joy and had the highest ratings in many years.
You ladies cooked so hard on this! 🔥 Us CC fans can be crazy, opposing fanbases can be crazy, but the seriously toxic stuff is trolls who exist in all fanbases!
I really appreciate the nuanced, intelligent discussion. I feel like I've learned from it, which is rare for online material. I still do not find Carrington's denials credible, notwithstanding the loaded question. For a professional at her level not to know that she hit an opponent in the face is literally incredible. Also, her answer to the loaded question was a diversion about her motive. It would have been so simple to say something like "of course I wouldn't try to injure another human being" or something like that. Considering that the referees called no foul on the eye gouge, it is easy to see unequal treatment at work.
“The most disrespected person in America is the Black woman. The most unprotected person in America is the Black woman. The most neglected person in America is the Black woman.” - Malcolm X Thanks for saying what should be obvious to anyone with good intentions and needs to be said by the same.
The comments about targeting omit the Chennedy Carter and Diamond DeShields incidents which were clearly targeting and flagrant non-basketball plays. Sue shouldn’t ignore this
By continually talking about the trolls just fuels the situation. We’re talking about a very small number of people, the smart thing is get off social media if these things affect you.
@@arepas but is was initially fuelled by social media trolls. To say that Fever fans are racist is just massive bs, like most of s**t being pushed. Get off social media
I have to agree with the fact that there was an adjustment period for Caitlin and the rest of the rookie class. I’m a CC fan- although recent fan, I promised myself to watch her games from college before watching her WNBA career. Now, I may not speak on a 100% confidence because I have new things to learn, but even for me, I did notice that Caitlin DID have an adjustment period in the beginning. I mean, how could she not? The girl was playing professional ball 2 weeks after her NCAA Championship- she’s exhausted and her body is too. The one issue I have with some of the CC fans is that they’re so dead set on the fact that Caitlin didn’t have an adjustment period and she was amazing from the start. Not to say she wasn’t great, but comparing to her performance post-Olympic break, her performance in the beginning of her season was proof that she definitely needed to get adjusted. She was still good, but she wasn’t college Caitlin YET. People can be a fan of Caitlin but still accept the fact that she’s a 22-year old kid who’s still in her ROOKIE year. She’s gonna get tested, and although I do not agree with some of the fouls against her, you just hope that Caitlin stands up and proves the haters wrong. Caitlin’s a tough player to go up against, and that’s a fact as seen in her last 2 years of college career but now, she’s also going up against professional players who have been in the league for more than a decade. Sometimes experience does overpower skill, but that doesn’t make Caitlin less of a good player. It’s okay if she struggled, it’s okay if she lost. Remember that this is the worst form of Caitlin that we’ll see. From this point on, she will get better as years pass and she will earn more respect than she has now.
Love your show. I am a new fan who is a CC fan. I totally agree with Sue's point that on the court, CC is not getting targeted more than any other great player. One thing I would like to bring up is the way the WNBA is being officiated. I have heard several times that "Well, the WNBA is a physical league". I have watched other games and I find the officiating to be inconsistent. Caitlin is not the only player being hit in the head with no foul called. This looks like to me the NBA when MJ came into the league. The Detroit Pistons where the bad boys but the whole league played with the hand checking and hard fouls that I currently see in the WNBA. The NBA cracked down on this and while there is still physicality in the NBA it is not the hand checking, cheap shots that were there in the 80s and 90s. I would submit that many new fans are coming into the league and watching only CC. They see the hard fouls many times not being called and do not realize this is throughout the league. I believe that this type of play with hand checking, hard fouls is boring just like the hard fouls and hand checking in the NBA was boring. Once the NBA allowed the Magic Johnsons, Michael Jordans, Steph Curry to co0k, it became a much more exciting league and more fans started to show up. The NBA was in financial trouble at the time. I believe that if the WNBA just schooled their Refs to not allow the hand checking and call the hard fouls when they occur regardless of who the player is, it would be a much more exciting league. I see more players coming into the WNBA that will have the artistry of CC. Let them cook!
Thanks for having upfront conversations and it is important to have debate and opening up discussion about tough topics. Staying away from absolutes is important, as in life, there are not a lot of absolutes so this damages trust. The "loaded" question issue, that came up, addressing something (long fingernails in the eye) the journalist KNEW would be picked out and shared, I feel was doing HER job. This IS her job. It was a great opportunity to look at "safety" around long fingernails. I cannot imagine that it would be ok to have spikes in elbow pads in football, for example. Not addressing "spikes" on nails AKA long fingernails in a sport like basketball, where , they are scratching, eye poking etc, , as been seen and experienced, is irresponsible. It deserves to be addressed around "safety". Just because something is hard to do, AKA, poke someone in the eye, does not negate the fact that safety should matter. I hope they end long nails in basketball. The "warnings" of the damage long nails is doing IS there. Thanks for talking about issues. Welcome to fame. It has its positives and challenges. ugh. THAT we are talking about things IS where things can get worked out. Love & Light.
As a basketball fan, I was so waiting for this episode to come out as there were some epic games from Game 2s of first series to Game 1, 2 of semis and I was hoping to get Sue's takes on it. I totally respect the choice to speak about the disgusting nature of the recent coverage, but am absolutely bummed we didn't get a nice W analysis this time.
Actually covering Caitlin full court is no issue and like Sue said it is a compliment to her as an athlete. Media definitely has skewed and fuelled the hatred and narrative. However, the cheap shots and over the top aggressiveness like Thomas’s or Stevie’s screen while basketball plays, the WNBAPA should work with their players and mentor them with the talk to media, set a standard of play amongst their players to care about the safety of each other. However saying this there should be no cheap shots and ejection from game, suspensions of future games, and fines to players and their organizations would lower the likelihood of future safety for players. I am a big fan of women’s basketball and am sadden by the growing racist comments. Ironically many are from some men and that even makes it worse. Thanks for tackling a challenging topics.
Im trying to get through this with an open mind but its very obvious no one cares about Caitlin or what she went through this year. Its ok, it will only make her greater but it is still disappointing. She doesnt walk around with security everyday FOR NOTHING. But since shes not a drama queen she gets the shit end of all sticks with the league and players, both past and present.
Then you're not listening to this with an open mind. You're listen with a strong Caitlin bias. So that means you don't care about the WNBA as a whole and the other women in this league. If you're a true fan you would care about ALL their stories. You just WANT Caitlin to be a victim and that's a problem.
@@memoir02 wa wa wa . That’s the problem with narcissistic gaslighting women they are the cause and still find a way to make an argument for why they’re the victim. The audacity of those who belittled and victimized CC with zero justification and still say they are the victim of why they preyed on her.
Then you need to remove yourself bc you didn't listen at all! She's a white woman, why would she need security?! It's comments like YOURS that continue to perpetuate hate and you decided to come to this comment section with more hate and an obtuse POV that doesn't make any dam sense. We don't want your kind of hate in this sport
I've been watching WNBA this year after NCAA finals brought Caitlin Clark video shorts to YT -- where internet sports journalists focused on Caitlin Clark. She reminded me of every athlete I ever followed -- Examples: Kareem from high school in NY, at UCLA and with the Lakers; Magic from college at Michigan, and then with the Lakers. And, later Kobe from Europe b4 he practiced with Philadelphia b4 the NBA to the Malibu mountain on that tragic, foggy, February morning. And, I've listened to Olympic coverage with DT, SB, and Megan Rapinoe over drinks on one occasion. Very entertaining! (Serena and Venus Williams are my draw now to tennis after watching Billie Jean King, Martina Navratilova, and Chris Everett. All track stars from Flo-Jo to She'Queri et al 2024 -- and Simone Biles, and the Olympic icote skater, Debbie Thomas back in 1984?? ... anyway, I see the rapport and the jealousy/cut-throat manner of play (Bill Labeaure, NBA, comes to my mind as a poster boy athlete of dirty play). All that said -- all the -isms, race, gender, unequal pay, etc. are very frought topics in the culture. So, I would expect the WNBA would struggle with this; everyone else just about struggles with it, too. All that said, you know being a rookie sucks! You've just gone from the top of your game in college, generally, to this cauldron of crap that was exposed this year in the WNBA during your first year(s). Good news: The men tried to compliment the extraordinary talent, which is why we're all here, and chill the drama. When that happened, I knew Caitlin was no flash -- she's real deal. Men aren't heading into drama otherwise. People like Shannon Sharpe, and other cable ESPN etc. sportscasters are the analysts I listen to casually, but Charles Barkley spoke up for CC -- the same guy early in his career who got all wrapped up claiming he wasn't a role model for kids. My how times change -- thank God! The bad news: The WNBA issue does not seem to have been resolved. I want Cheryl Miller, and the Black coach back east whose name I can't recall -- I hope they can steer improved interaction from the background 2025. P.S. Cheryl Miller I really admire, as well. I'm not a fan/fanatic. I am drawn to performance. What all the athletes in all of sports that I've watched since I was pre-school age, have in common: They all were crazy mad talented, dedicated and practiced 110+%. You know what I'm saying. My interest was a family thing (both parents were HBC alumnus, and family is Southern, Black) which lends itself to my approach. lol Sports are a food group! lol discuss Olympics basketball. It was fun especially since I knew their intensity and practice dedication.
What I love about this podcast is the truthful discussions. I agree with most of the views and perspectives and the rare one's that I may disagree with becomes an opportunity to expand my views. Will it change it? Maybe, maybe not, BUT it will enhance my ability to expand my knowledge and make me a better person. The DT statement struck me as straight up sport talk. Basically I took it like "bring it and let's see what you got"...totally positive. Then DT gave her the ultimate compliment after the Fever defeated the Mercury. She's continued to compliment CC ever since. Fans that aren't athletes can't comprehend that bring your stuff not the fluff talk is an opportunity for athletes to receive the support and props of their peers. To me DT is my kind of athlete. As for targeting, my take is the horrendous officiating, that at times were blatantly obvious, allowed for the conspiracy talk. I mean, either call it equally or put your whistle in your pocket. Players adjust to the officiating. That's part of sports. But when you give CC a tech for pounding the pads then not call it on others, including DT, it gives fuel to the targeting rhetoric. When they don't call a safe place to land rule that further enables the targeting rhetoric. Remember the Jordan rules? The Hack a Shaq rules? When I saw the reverse view of Carrington's eye poke, I'll admit, I thought it was intentional. I'll further admit that her tweets about the Fever influenced my take. However, both she and CC put that to rest...move on. Though I had a problem with Carrington's tweet I wouldn't apologize for supporting the love of my world and I don't think she should either. To me she should have realized the negative effect it would have and articulated it better. Conflating all these things enables skewed perspectives. The WNBA, and some Players, failed miserably when it comes to creating a united front to reject the idiots and the trolls. Instead of controlling the narrative they laid down and complained. Imagine this, when CC denounced and rebuked the stupidity the WNBA should have created a media storm highlighting that. Create a media release with CC and all the great players she idolized and promotes saying unequivocally that they don't accept this craziness as a united front. The real fans of CC and basketball would join the movement and take ownership and rebuke the idiots. Now imagine this, AT instead of attacking ONLY CC fans and having the audacity to say the Fever should treat us like kids was insulting. With a united front strategy AT could've pointed to that and trust me she'd get a ton of support. Yes she should be taken on her own merit but why not call on your most effective ally in this situation to rebuke the stupidity? But to take a shot at fans like me, a basketball fan that came to the WNBA because of the attraction of CC, was unproductive. As a basketball fan I am blown away and sometimes slap myself upside my head for missing all this great basketball. For missing the careers of the greats like Sue. This isn't just basketball, it's FRESH basketball...it's a FRESH opportunity to get excited. Geez, even India is talking about it now...Cricket fanatics are being told about the WNBA. My professional career was to implement strategies that increased the net revenue and valuation of companies. A critical element, if not the key element wast to listen to the valid issues of the employees, whom I regard as the key to success. Once trust was ingrained and they became empowered they took ownership of the company. The Players are the ones that need to be empowered and in turn take ownership of their product...basketball. And its from that standpoint that I say the WNBA failed. As for the social issues that SHOULD be addressed I will simply say this. I come from a race that was threatened with extinction if our Queen did not surrender. My ancestors were willing to accept their fate. Our Queen was locked up in her own palace and from that place asked our race to put down their spears, while having guns and cannons pointed at them. Our native language was forbidden. Our land was taken. Our traditions were mocked and skewed to benefit capitalism. Generations for over a century lived with a sense of shame and oppression. President's Grover Cleveland and Bill Clinton had the courage and integrity to declare the overthrow illegal. In Cleveland's case he lost his re-election bid to McKinley but was re-elected after 1 term. I am a heterosexual man that spares no effort in letting all those around me know about my love and respect for all the LGBTQ+ in my life. One of them, in my opinion, did what a hospital couldn't...she saved my son's life. So what's my point? These issues are in need of unity and empowerment not division and hardened attitudes. We the Hawaiian people have finally stopped feeling ashamed and helpless and for the past 20 years we have found effective ways to bring back our culture, language, and self determination. We are a far way from stopping the discrimination and opportunistic oppression but we are now moving forward and not dwelling. It started with unity and empowerment. Unity includes people that were part of the perceived problem. Yet it was their support after realizing the truth about the status quo that put us on a forward moving trajectory. Both sides took responsibility for a better humanity. At the end of the day we are humans...FULL Stop!!
11:25 well this just isn’t true. You can’t watch the Sky versus Caitlin and not see how she was targeted lol I mean come on. Like 1 in 5 flagrants from the entire 2024 season were against CC 80% of which came from Sky games.
@@lshereej5553 you’re delusional. She reciprocates sometimes yes but she rarely to never initiates. You just wanted to discount and belittle the hard fact I gave. It didn’t work babes.
@@lshereej5553 She reciprocates sometimes yes but she rarely to never initiates. You just wanted to discount and belittle the hard fact I gave. It didn't work babes.
I will preface with the fact that I have followed the NBA since 1999, and the play has always been a physical and aggressive game. I appreciate the rational discussion by Sue and Megan, the thing that I think that was not addressed was the quality of the officiating. The fact that obvious fouls against Caitlin Clark were not called feed the narrative of targeting. The fact is that the officials have been bad across the board, the public notices the failure when Caitlin gets (pretty obviously) hit in the eye and no call is made, or Carter makes an obvious non-basketball foul and it isn't called as a flagrant. Those make Sportscenter. The officials have been bad and not called those fouls when they occurred against A'ja, Angel, or Rikea, but those don't make Sportscenter. The WNBA needs to make an improvement in the area of officiating to help to quash the targeting narrative.
Sue, that has been Charles Barkley's narrative this whole season. Blaming the WNBA players and calling them jealous and petty. Not that one time. All season long. I feel the same as you about Charles. I have always adored him, but he has really let us down.
First off, Charles can’t let anyone down because himself has said he is not a role model. He is there to give his opinions. And the jealousy from the W players towards Clark is evident. Is not about narratives. It’s about facts.
The common factor between Charles Barkley, Stephen A. Smith, and Shannon Sharpe is them wanting signing a long term deal with their network... Charles Barkley deal with TNT end 2025 as well as Stephen A. Smith with ESPN..... Why are we taking advice from some one who couldn't hold his temper through out his NBA career being sue several time including throwing someone out a bar window.... Charles had stated multiple times he watched more women games the last 2years than his whole life....That doesn't sound like a supporter.... Has Charles Barkley ever watched a women game in person...Because it seem like he would've a biased opinion then working for media to keep this drama going.... He doesn't want to talk about women basketball because it work require more work to remember people names...
@@crs1474and it’s trying to rewrite the narrative to try to minimize things. But there are things that cannot be minimized until they admit it happened and then they work to fix the problems. If players hate and target, suspend them. If people accuse falsely, they need to publicly apologize (ie AT of the Suns). And so on and so on. Receipts need to be used to return the past to normal.
Y'all lack the most basic comprehension. Neither of them said she wasn't targeted, they said she isn't targeted by jealousy, because nobody wants the performative so-called "fans" that Caitlin Clark has.
I love that they emphasize they know sports, they know basketball and they should be listened to. How are people talking about something they've never done? It's tiring that Sue and Megan have to address things that are obvious. People are taking things out of context on purpose.
okay, i think i sort of represent the newer WNBA viewer/casual fan. On the other hand, i do follow the NBA and NCAA men's basketball religiously. I've never watched a WNBA game before this season. I started watching women's NCAA college basketball during the 2023-2024 season because i started to hear a lot of noise about Clark & Reese. When i watched them, i became intrigued because i like both players' style of play. These 2 players seemed to have gotten significantly more exposure before coming into the WNBA which i think was good for them. The only person i really heard of before them was Ionescu because she was in a 3-point shooting contest with Steph Curry. So for me, if it weren't for both Reese & Clark, then i'm not sure how much WNBA i would be watching right now. Maybe, WNBA players need to start marketing themselves more through their own social media platforms if the league isn't pushing for more marketing/exposure. Only recently have i seen commercials with WNBA players. The NBA definitely has its cast of superstars and villains but manages to still be successful & grow. I've noticed an increase in ticket prices for the WNBA, so it looks like their future is bright now. I'm even trying to plan a trip to watch a live WNBA game sometime next season, likely the Vegas Aces. As i'm watching the WNBA playoffs now, i've become a big fan of Aja Wilson, Kelsey Plum, & Napheesa Collier. I"m also looking forward to seeing how well next year's rookie class will do in the WNBA such as Paige Beuckers and possibly JuJu Watkins.
You both are the best! I’m so exited that everyone is able to experience A Touch More with you. I’m an OG from the IG live days and hope that you’ll be brining back some of those guests for interviews as well 😉
I am part way through your talk about the WNBA issues, and I am loving hearing you talk about this. When I refer to the toxic group of CC fans, I don't call them fans; I call them fanatics. Trolls and bots aside. There are decent CC fans, and there are rabid, obsessive CC fanatics.
This is a great perspective. I thank you guys for diving into this conversation. In my personal opinion I wish the league and players would keep things more about basketball. Sports are supposed to be entertainment and an escape from the challenging world. Some of us prefer our entertainment to be free from the heaviness of the world. The other reason I would prefer less social justice issues in entertainment is that it will steal the show every time. Why work so hard to be so great for things racism to be the star of the show?
Because it is your escape and not theirs. They are being harassed followed threatened. You want them to shut up and dribble to be entertained? Why not use your voice to stand up for yourself and others bc more people would listen. They already out their bodies on the line for your "entertainment". They have to be harassed, threatened. Etc ans just take it so you can escape and they cannot just be entertained? Bc thats essentially what you're saying. More empathy and sympathy goes a long way
@@ebonygoddess7 They are being insulted, stalk and harassed. Just this week I seen Lamar Jackson speak out against toxic fans yet they want these women to shut up and dribble.
@@ebonygoddess7 My opinion matters too. I am a black women who’s experienced racism and sexism as well. I have different approach to navigating this world successfully that doesn’t include having a victim mentality. Everyone choose their own path✊🏽
@@jazzyjasism No one said your opinion doesn't matter. And as a black woman your empathy should be higher. I as a black woman do not believe calling out racism, sexism, or any other ism isnt victim mentality. Im sick of hearing that. Its ignorant. Now good day black woman
I'm SO GLAD that Sue spoke up about this! She spoke HER TRUTH as a player, and damn anybody trying to discredit her! It's getting out of control and alot of the media has been VERY IRRESPONSIBLE, pushing this narrative that all the non Caitlin players are jealous bitter petty women who are out to get her. The racist/bigoted sector of Caitlin's fans (which is huge unfortunately) pushed that narrative and sadly alot of media pushed it! Stephen A Smith, Shannon Sharpe, Barstool Sports, Charles Barkley. Christine Brennan, RGIII. I wanted to root for Caitlin, but with the 1000s of people using her name to slander black women and ALL of the WNBA players before her. I cannot stand for that
Always the victim @memoir02. Show any proof of verbal/racial attacks by Clark fans??!! With so many alt and burner accounts online nowadays, no one knows who is behind any verbal attacks. It could even be the racist Sheryl Swoopes posing at a CC fan!
Great show and important conversation. I have to say that it isn’t completely one sided. The media needs to do better, but it seems unfair to give a pass to writers such as Nancy Armour, Andrea Williams, Andrew Jerrell Jones, Jim Trotter, etc. who seem to be trying to villainize CC and her entire fan base. I also don’t think it’s fair to assume all MAGA are violent so players should feel unsafe when they are at games, especially for a league that prides itself on inclusivity. To be clear, I am not a Trumper. Also, the Chicago Sky team was met by paparazzi at their bus, not some crazed fan. Big picture I think the message should be don’t feed the trolls. I 100% think media should be better with coverage, but also the league should be blocking bots/trolls and helping investigate true threats. Players should also consider dealing with hate privately because unfortunately it perpetuates the non-basketball narratives. I don’t say that to silence women; the league should be responsible for addressing the threats.
It became draining to follow wnba. I know a lot of people in my circle muted wnba related content on twitter bc they're tired of these think pieces and negativity. The WNBA needs to undergo media training. Both players and the media should move past unproductive discussions that overshadow the actual game. These debates lead nowhere and only escalate tensions. It's pointless to try changing the behaviour of internet trolls or far-right groups who latch onto the WNBA to push their own agendas.
@@Asma-h7g I find disingenuous when people say that there's no jealousy, envy from players towards Caitlin. A lot of them look at Caitlin and think that they not getting the same attention, endorsements like her because they're not white and/or straight. A prime example is A'ja Wilson, who told Plum that what puts Paige over the top is her white privilege. Even before Caitlin entered the WNBA, A'ja told the Associated Press that Caitlin’s rise is tied to her being white, and it "boils her blood" when people dismiss this racial factor. Yesss, everyone and their mama attaching themselves to Caitlin because she brings clicks, engagement.
I don’t disagree, but while she pointed out that racisms misogyny and homophobia have always existed against the W, it has escalated this season. It’s not CC’s fault, it’s her leeches posing as fans.
@@TF-vb9us Everyone and their mama attaching themselves to Caitlin because her name brings engagement and clicks. What can you do about internet trolls and personalities like Jason Whitlock? My biggest frustration, that many within the WNBA community and the media giving attention and amplifying these toxic narratives, creating a cycle of negativity that ultimately leads nowhere.
I think that the WNBA is quite obviously a tougher league than college. As it should be. I also think that defensive strategies - picking a guard up in full court for example - are fine. But every once in awhile there is a defensive player &/or coach who understands that the best way to defend that star player is to knock them out of the game. See Peyton Manning vs the NO Saints for proof of that. I would like to take intent out of a lot of Flagrant fouls. An NHL player is responsible for his stick, except when he is shooting. That means that if he inadvertently sticks an opposing player, he still gets a penalty. WNBA players should be responsible for their bodies. Reach in and gouge someone in the eye (or a similar foul, like dangerous close outs) should be at least a Flagrant One and easily upgraded to a Flagrant Two - on the spot - if it's a habitually dirty player. The game can be played tough, but permanent injury to a star is just around the corner if the WNBA doesn't deal with this in the off season. People pay to see stars.
Flagrant fouls work the same in the WNBA. Even if an act is unintentional and the result an acceptable basketball play, if it results in an injury to another player, it can be reviewed and upgraded to a flagrant foul. Caitlin receiving a poke to the eye should have been a foul and probably would have been upgraded if called and reviewed even though Carrington was just making a play on the basketball. Unfortunately, it was missed by the refs. It wasn’t an intentional no-call by the refs, the WNBA refs are just pretty consistently terrible, but that mistake in officiating has nothing to do with Caitlin Clark or Dijonai Carrington.
He was right. She wasn’t a legit MVP candidates, fans and media set her up to fail, and she needed to get stronger to be successful. (She did in a season). Her team improving is what he was wrong about..but he nailed the issues with Caitlin. Get over it.
@@shaylynn848 she was an MVP candidate. You are an idiot saying she wasn’t because she got 4th amount of points from votes. If the media weren’t following the A’ja Wilson is MVP narrative from before the season, Collier and CC would have gotten more points. And you clearly don’t listen. Geno said that people were delusional thinking she is a candidate for MVP and oddsmakers were giving her odds for placing 3rd or 4th in MVP. Guess what? The oddsmakers were right and she was 4th. Just like oddsmakers said CC is hands down favorite for ROTY. Get some facts before you start to spew hate on CC. This is how and why people talk out their ass when they really shouldn’t.
Watching the semi-finals last night, and listening to you now, I must say that the game is too physical! I don’t want the game to turn into 10 Shaqs banging around. I don’t know how Breana survives, or how any team can score more than 64 pts. Call the fouls! If they had done that, all the eyes on CC wouldn’t be thinking the league is against her, and the awesome talent would be allowed to shine. That is what we want to see. If all the women playing last night were drafted into our army I would feel safe at night. They were in a battle!
@@MeshaM-i7ttheir inconsistency is the main thing. They reaaaallyy need to overhaul W officiating in the off season and pay whoever survives tougher requirements more.
Do you know that what is a foul is not defined in the WNBA rule book‼️I had to go and check because I thought CC22 was being fouled much more than they were called. The refs seem to call whatever they want a foul‼️
Very interesting subject ladies and I find myself agreeing with both of you on everything. I'll try to keep it brief because I have so many thoughts on this with many examples, being a big sports and entertainment fan since before you young ladies were born. Number one thought is behavior during public events whether it be sports or other forms of entertainment like plays, concerts... events with an audience. Many of us were taught from an early age how to conduct ourselves. We are the guests at these events. It's okay to clap, cheer and make ourselves heard but mostly in a respectful way. We are quiet when actors are speaking during a play. We don't go up onstage and interrupt an award ceremony because the person receiving the award deserves their personal platform up there. In sports it's okay to boo, and that we did when we disliked something we saw. Times have really changed from the simple allowed audience participation to what has recently been over the top behavior. And it starts with allowing the audience more of a voice until it becomes out of control. Does anyone remember when fans did not wave loofahs when the opposing player shot free throws? How about when the refs would stop a football game when the fans got too loud and the visiting team couldn't hear their play calls? The line has been moved each time with the acceptance of a certain fan behavior. As for the over the top stuff, some people behave the same way at these events as they would at home, with no filter. I am also noticing that many who cry for freedom of speech use it as an excuse for behaving badly, and that does not sit well with me. So much more examples that I have observed throughout the years. I'm not famous and wouldn't attract many followers on a show to voice my experience but would love to dissect this whole audience and fan behavior issue with someone because I have personally seen many changes. Hah, so much for brief!!!
I love the KP / Spike moment as part of Kelsey’s WNBA legacy lore. Her personality is perfect for creating those playoff basketball moments. She will let folks KNOW👏💪😆
Such a great, great episode! Loved it so much. I will give Christine Brennan one slight benefit of the doubt, as she has been a fantastic journalist for like 40 years and has never shown a shred of racism...I do think she would've asked what she asked Dijonai if it had been a white player that got tangled up with Caitlin...It just looked A THOUSAND times worse that it was Dijonai, given all the other racial undertones...But the bigger thing is, you can't breathe on Caitlin without it being news. Things like this happen all the time...Players get tangled up, inadvertent elbows and knees happen, but, it's never really news...But, anything with Caitlin IS news. I remember when Sue got tangled up with Lelani Mitchell in game 5 of the semis in 2018, as Sue thought she had grabbed her mask, and there was a dust up that had to be broken up, but, after everything settled, no one mentioned it again. As mentioned before, these things happen all the time, but, haven't really been newsworthy until now.
The problem is you don't have to go back that far.... Jewell Loyd was poke in the eye on June 27, 2024 while going against the Indiana Fever.... One eye was completely closed during the game and she still scored 34 points Was Breanna Stewart interview after Alaysaa Thomas blackened her eye on May 27, 2023. Was Thomas ask if she did it on purpose... During the same game, did they ask Carrington if she felt CC elbow in the face on purpose.... Stop the nonsense..... it basketball 🏀 The fans are going to lose their mind In the 2028 Olympics playing under Fiba rules
@@henryt.hurleyjr.4850 Great call on this!! I just remembered that instance with Sue from six years ago, but, I love the examples you provided, and you are so dead on. As we've pointed out, these things happen all the time, but it's never news and players aren't asked about it, it's just brushed off because it's basketball, and the game has some physicality to it. I hadn't even thought about the Olympics....those CC stans are going to lose their minds, because you're right, FIBA is a MUCH more physical style of play.
Instead of being resentful towards Clark the WNBA needs to amplify the positives that are happening because of her & her huge fan base. Stop amplifying racist trolls and amplify the big ratings surge & sold out arenas.
It's so telling that Clark fans never view stopping the racism and bigotry as a solution. It's always deal with it for the sake of ratings. Nobody is accepting that nasty behavior, and they shouldn't have to.
Put my first episode of this podcast on today because I thought I was missing some good content but I see this is just another podcast where we aren't going to tell 100% of the truth you cannot say that Caitlin was not targeted in some games look at the percentage of flagrant fouls that were on Caitlin it exceeds anyone else in the w. These women are catty bitter jealous and can't handle their emotions Carrington did intentionally in fact poke her in the eye if you can't see that then you two are part of the WNBA narrative props to Christine Brennan for asking real questions everyone saw it on TV it was in fact intentional
The reporter was not responsible for how people on social media react. People can see what happened with their own two eyes. The question absolutely needed to be asked. Zero racism was in the question.
Thanks for explaining things in a way that makes total sense. However, I still think that the WNBA has some work to do on refs, there are too many "physical" actions that should be fouls. If the WNBA wants to increase viewerships not only when Fever is playing, they should propose a show that can be viewed by families where unnecessary violence is banned and not celebrated.
These two are very civil and measured but this is not a hard hitting conversation and with Sue’s experience it could be more so and actually make a difference
@@BryanDuncan-g6b I don't know if it has to be, because so much of it has just become "discourse". In my mind it's more on the proper media to engage in this and not just take their prompts from Twitter and tiktoks
Disclosure: I’m almost 50, white male, avid NBA fan, and a “new” CC fan- not necessarily a WNBA fan. For the first-time in my life I bought the W League Pass, so I could watch every CC game. It even led me to getting cable again because some of her games weren’t live on LP. My wife and kids thought I was crazy… With that said, I’ll be canceling cable now that CC’s season is over… lol.. anyways. My biggest gripe with listening to WNBA legends and folks that have covered the W for many years is the notion that the main issue the W hasn’t grown or been successful was because of racism, misogyny, and homophobia. I have no doubt that those concerns have played a small part in the lack of access and acceptance of the WNBA, but I do not support them as a main contributors. I feel the main contributor has been the quality of product . I don’t mean that with any disrespect, but after watching my first WNBA season this year- I was stunned by what I saw. After watching the NBA and playing in basketball leagues for many years, I had an assumption the WNBA would be relative to the NBA. Maybe the women would be a little smaller and slower, but the skills would be comparable. Unfortunately, that’s not what I saw. I saw games where scores at halftime were in the 30’s routinely. I saw multiple blown wide open layups, shots hitting off the side of the backboard, multiple air balls, more shot clock violations than I’ve ever seen, top guards that can’t go left and right to the hoop, too many players that can’t shoot above 75% from the stripe, and very basic sets (but the NBA hasn’t gotten bad there too). Lastly, I know the W prides itself on being physical, but I would argue the physicality of the play is due to just poor defensive skills. The footwork is visibly bad, and the older I got, the worse my reaction and footwork got, so I became more “physical”…. So why did I watch? Because CC’s shot is comparable, actually better, than most NBA players. She plays, in many ways, with a lot of skills you see in the NBA. But even though she’s a top 5 player in the W, she can’t make a wide-open left handed layup- it’s frustrating. Now - the argument is that I’m just a hater and not a real fan. I do not feel I am a hater, but I will concede that I am not a true fan of the W, YET! If the W wants to become profitable and gain lasting viewership- unfortunately, men have to be the target audience, that is unless the W just wants to be a charity case for the NBA. When I talk to my coworkers and friends, they all say their issues with the W are all the same things I pointed out. Either they’ve never watched, or this year was the first time they caught a W game and were shocked by the product on the court. The point is, men are not going to want to tune-in to watch the W to listen to players, commentators, or analysts claim the lack of success of the W is primarily based off of the racism, misogyny, and homophobia - it’s just not true. If you feel activism is more important than profit - great.. that’s awesome, but it will come at a cost. On a personal level, I love it, but never forget that it is a business first - no matter how much activism dressing you put around it. Anyways, I respect your views, and I am not trying to be negative. I am trying to give you the perspective of the AVID NBA fan and casual W fan. I’m only a few years out of the target male demographic that the W should be targeting.
I'd just like to add one of the main reasons I took DTs initial comment of Clark a little too harshly was based on Sheryl Swoopes, another legend talking about Clark on Gilberts Arena podcast oct 16th 2023. Seeing a legend share things that weren't true at all, and then DT say somethings that looking back werenn't even that harsh, the timing of it all just made it more of a big deal for me. Now i see that DT wasn't out of place to make those
All Sheryl Swoopes said was that CC needs to be more efficient...which is true. That's not being a "hater". And by the way, Sheryl Swoopes was Caitlin before Caitlin. She just played at a time with no social media and no internet, and no streaming. Look at what she did at Texas Tech....TEXAS TECH!!!!! She had giant crowds following her, and a big following...Without her, the WNBA may not even exist, as she was a central figure to the league's initial marketing campaign, and was the first woman to ever have her own shoe. So, she has some understanding of this kind of thing.
@@elliemyers6435 1. "becuase there's a covid year... she's had an extra year to break a record.. so is it really a broken record?" 2. "Lets also talk about how much more experience that gives you over other players.. but you have a 25 yr old playing against a 20 year old, like, you should be killin it" 3. "Caitlin probably takes about 40 shots a game... I know you like that.." just 3 things in one podcast that are so easily fact checked by looking at stats. 1. She didn't use the extra covid year. 2. had just turned 22 a few weeks prior to swoopes saying that. 3. FGA per game: 19.7 to your comment, nothing wrong about saying CC needing to be more efficient, I dont have a problem with that comment. I dont think thats being a hater.
I agree with everything you guys said but I’ve noticed for a very long time that some of the girls do have really long nails. I play basketball in Europe and our nails get checked before every game and if they’re any bit long we have to trim them or we aren’t allowed play. So I do think that’s a problem, not related to the Dijonai thing
Sue seems like a pretty intelligent person but when she says we still aren’t talking about basketball…that’s literally ALL the Indiana Fever players and CC talk about. Just basketball.. It’s seems social media, media and podcasters and players on others teams are the ones not taking about just basketball. It’s tiresome and is not helping lift up the W or any of its players. It's encouraging disfunction. Good luck gaining respect with this strategy.
I just love that yall are speaking the ACTUAL truth. AMAZING. Both of you keep shining your light!
Thank you sue! This narrative has gotten OOC. I’m a huge CC fan and some white lady had the audacity to call me a KLAN MEMBER.
So sorry to hear that. I have felt the same way being a Fever fan.
Probably a Liberal too
@@georgeseinfeld4150 leftist ** I am a liberal. These two things are NOT the same
@@TonyGabriel-we3mb none of this will age well so who cares honestly lol ♥️💛💙
It’s not just black players experiencing racism, every thread I read has multiple comments about “the privileged white girl” or “the great white hope” then you have the comments calling Clark a man. As loved as she is, Clark deals with a lot of hate too. Also, according to another rookie, Clark has a special whistle, let’s also hold the player or players accountable that go on social media and stir things up.
I feel like people are using CC as a vehicle for hate and grievances and it’s not even anything she’s done wrong. The media and the league need to get these women media training and support and change the narrative
I don’t think that all the media training in the world will change a narrative that the media itself created in order to gin up views because misogyny, racism, sexism, and overall hatred cells more as entertainment to male viewers (who are the main supporters of major sports networks) Then women’s basketball… Tend to view women through an objective gaze… And would rather listen to men degrade women then to learn the sport. Plus, the narrative actually started way before Dianna or Sue spoke it started when Iowa beat South Carolina and LSU, then beat Iowa…the narrative for being an angel and angel being the devil (ironically) was then created.
Glad someone else notices. So much different then Kyrie and Luka. It would be awesome if it pivoted to the content coming out of the NBA
Some maybe but the same could be said of why CC has been underestimated by so many . Not just underestimated but belittled. Take Turasis comments about CC, she said “next question “ as if CC doesn’t exist. She didn’t even wanted to acknowledge her existence. That’s incredibly insulting and offensive.
@@crs1474Turasis comments before Clark got to the league was she would have learning curve before she finds her rhythm.
Which was accurate giving it took her going into & right after Olympic break to get comfortable & catch fire.
Turasis has always been known to be highly competitive; for better & worst has rep of being a hard a**
She an’t treating Clark no different then any other player especially number 1 draft pick.
Like who? nobody can give an example... and im not talking about strangers online. Do you see what people say about NBA or NFL athletes? If you want to be a serious league, you cant get upset at trolls online
How come no one in the W space talked about the Sky exit interviews. Even the media blames Fever fans only.
because people only care about CC and the fever lol
exactly!!
My takeaway from this episode is that the Media needs to be media-trained. Thank you so much for your insights.
This needs more views
The thing about the "I've never seen aggression like this pointed at a single player" narrative is that they've made it abundantly clear that they never watched or cared about women's sports and its athletes.
Thank you for this as a white, gay women from Indiana I have spent way to much time having to explain my fandom to people who have never heard of Tamika Catchings. There has been anedoctal evidence that increased ticket prices leads to an entitlement of trolls hurl abuse. I think the WNBA is more anedoctal proof of that and the need much better security in games. Also I think their should be more research done on the increase in sports betting leading to abuse. Aliyah Boston discussed it in a post game interview after the Sparks game abuse she was getting for not meeting peoples bets. All that being said THERE IS NO PLACE for ISMS or PHOBIAS.
If I could have given this podcast 10 more thumbs up, I would have. Thank you both for saying what I've been feeling. Having grown up in Springfield, Massachusetts (home of the Basketball Hall of Fame), I have been a lifelong fan of women's basketball. I remember watching Rebecca Lobo set the Massachusetts high school scoring record when she lived in Southwick, before she went to UConn. I was there when the WNBA first started, when the Sun used to be known as the Miami Sol, when Becky Hammon was the Liberty's spark plug. In other words, I go way back. The same newbies who either watch or cover the WNBA and are now "experts", are the same ones who watch Olympic sports every 4 years & suddenly become "experts" in synchronized swimming and curling. They didn't get the memo that the WNBA has always played physical and yeah, women can ball; always have, always will. Rookies are always going to get tested, no matter what sport it is. The best will always get tested, no matter what sport it is. Thanks again for telling it like it is. I love your podcast.
It's the in between the lines "Nuanced Racism" that people try to play ignorant and hide behind every day ! That we experience in Sports, Media, Law, Corporate America ect.
Respect to you both for calling it out !!
Thank you for addressing this mess in an honest, open, knowledgeable way. I LOVE basketball, played in jr. high, high school and college but I am done with the W. The media trolls, who know NOTHING about basketball, and the pathetic media who are always looking for the negative, incendiary and divisive angle have killed it for me. As a women I am excited about the growth of women’s sports but all of the “ isms” you addressed have reared their ugliness and it is going to end up permanently damaging any further growth.
I agree. I’ve been a fan of the W since the VERY 1st game in 1997. It’s been enjoyable and exciting for me. I LOVE women’s basketball w/ a passion because they are very competitive and physical - RAW. However, this season has been the ABSOLUTE WORST ever. This sh*t has NEVER existed to this magnitude bc it’s been so protected. Now it’s on the front line and being attacked by “casuals”. I hate it. It’s unfair to existing and past players as well as for the 2024 Rookie Class. Most of them didn’t get the eye that they deserved. I hope this will go away this off-season.
Boston is a really good reference point for the particular issues raised in this episode. As a South Carolina fan, I saw that she was on the receiving end of all the vitriol from the media, "fans", and some coaches (*cough* Geno and Bluder *cough*) who were not careful with their words to the media. Then when Caitlin joined her on the Fever the events in the clip played out and she eventually became a beloved player to this same community. She has a very unique perspective on this issue as both an "insider" and "outsider", and I wish more people would listen to what she has to say because there is a lot of wisdom in there from the past 4+ years of having to live through this narrative.
Clark has always denounced hate. Anyone blaming her & her fans for the antics of online trolls is manipulative and unfair. She has no control over online trolls. The majority of Clark's fans have been a huge positive for the WNBA.
The loud minority claiming to be members of her fanbase are making it difficult for true fans.
True fans respect CC. They would not treat her friends & coworkers with such disrespect. It's one thing to talk smack about someone's game. It's quite another to talk smack about the PERSON.
@@JessiFayS As I said online trolls will do as they please because they are chaos agents. However anyone blaming Clark and her fans for the racist vitriol being spread online can't be taken seriously because unfortunately racism has always been a part of the WNBA and society as a whole. Clark has NO control over what trolls do or say. She has denounced the hate numerous times but she can't cure racism. And players falsely blaming the racism on only Clark's fan base is manipulative, disingenuous, unfair, and dangerous. Like I said the players and league need to amplify all of the positives that Clark & her huge fan base have brought to the WNBA. Stop amplifying hateful trolls and stop using them as cudgels to beat Clark with because she has done nothing wrong and doesn't deserve the resentment from players, coaches, and refs in the WNBA. The WNBA should ignore the trolls, embrace Clark & her fans, and amplify the positives.
@@JessiFayS Y'all must not understand how sports, fans, (fanatics) and freedom of speech works. Yes, rival fans do talk about their rivals personally if they feel like it. And sometimes their own fans if they feel their player was playing terribly. This is where we are headed though. Sticks and stones no longer apply. That is why censorship is on the rise. You could lose your whole business if you just say the wrong thing. That does not sound like freedom of speech. The whole reason for this being in the constitution was for inappropriate speech that may not be so pleasant. We are becoming snowflakes. Criticism is now racism.
@@Fuglicia-is7ozif you listened to the podcast, you will recall Sue saying that it is completely different in the context of women’s sports. Having people use sexism, racism, and homophobia against women is completely and totally different than men hating on other men. I am an avid NFL fan. I am a season ticket holder to the Packers. I know what a sports rivalry looks like. This is not what is happening in the WNBA.
If you are not a woman I don’t think you can comprehend the fear that the kind of violent rhetoric these players are on the on the receiving side of can instill. Male athletes do not have to worry about hateful comments online turning into stalking, harassment, and possible physical and sexual assault. Dijonai Carrington was receiving comments calling her slurs and wishing for her to be sexually assaulted. That is not even in the realm of normal or acceptable sport rivalries. Even Caitlin Clark was subject to sexist and sexual comments DURING A GAME from a fan of the opposing team calling her and her mother a sexist slur and wishing she is traumatically injured.
There is a difference in the language used and what the loaded history and the context behind that language. Men using sexist slurs and insults and wishing and threatening sexual assault is absolutely unacceptable just as an everyday occurrence in society and especially when it is aimed at a professional athlete DOING THEIR JOB. Me saying that Brayden Narveson sucks and couldn’t consistently make a field goal if his life depended on it is different than a man telling a female athlete that she is a dirty [insert slur of choice here] and deserves to be sexually assaulted because she ruined their parlay or fouled their favorite player is not okay and should probably have them added to a watchlist and banned from social media
And if people cannot control their behavior enough to act like decent human beings because they lost a bet they made of their own free will, then we should just ban sports betting again because obviously they’re not mature enough to handle it.
@@Fuglicia-is7oz This is a fair point. Case in point...if you look at an MLB, NBA, NHL or NFL insta post after they post the score after a loss, the majority of the comments are something like "F*ck everyone!" "Fire everyone!" "_____ vs. the refs" "So and so is trash" "Worst team ever" or some other kind of hurtful comment. If you look after a WNBA team or NWSL team loses, you'll see a few comments like that, but the majority of them are "you girls tried hard!" or "we're still behind you!!" or "You'll get them next time!" It's a really stark difference. So, yeah, this kind of trolling has been going on forever, and a lot of male pro athletes have learned how to deal with it, which isn't necessarily right, it just is what it is.
Thank you legends for this. People like you guys calling it out exactly how it is, is so so so important and I’m so proud to be a fan of yours. I’ve watched and been in women’s football since a child and experienced so much discrimination. I’m a “recent” WNBA fan for a couple years now. And this year has been heartbreaking to witness. Thank you for speaking up. It’s so refreshing
I missed the lockdown years, but this has quickly become one of my favorite weekly pods. It’s a pleasure to listen to a couple of legends talk sports.
Thank you for using your voices!! As a recently new "fan" of the wnba I was witnessing the media but could never understand! As a white women, don't think I ever fully will but appreciate your perspectives and the insight!! ❤ Thanks for helping me grow, and I hope this helps others too!!
Alyssa Thomas said in her 11 years she hasn't seen this much racism... Sue should talk to her
Who is Alyssa Thomas?
@@maxmx767 Google is your friend, and AT is an elite defender.
I didn't expect to be crying thru your podcast but here I am bawling my eyes out. STANDING OVATION. ❤❤❤❤
One of the most important podcasts on CC and the WNBA to ever come out and much overdue, a convo by one of the most respected GOATS of the game talking about a game shes spent her life connected to. Easential to any fan of CC and the W.
This was a great conversation, Megan and Sue. I love what you said about wanting to just shut up and dribble. Both the league and the WNBPA absolutely need to do more. The WNBPA must support all their players: Skylar Diggins-Smith, Dearica Hamby. And even Caitlin.
I think players need not make accusations to the world using Caitlins name and blaming only her fans.
One hundo
Some might but so does the other side against CC.
what player did that? and what accusations, maybe i missed something?
@@jasciewilliams7900 angel Reese, Alyssa Thomas, Dijonai carrington
@@jasciewilliams7900Alyssa Thomas did it in her post game interview game 2.
Great conversation, Sue and Megan. And yipes. Well, the comment section is not checking out. A couple unbiased folks appreciating this conversation, and a lot of other perpetuating the exact thing they're speaking up about here. Like if you aren't going to listen to people who live it and have experience dealing with all of this, you're just not intellectually curious.
For sure. Disconcerting to see some of this thread as though either they didn't even listen to the podcast or can't accept the points which are all clear and well articulated.
Exactly! It's crazy how these women are speaking THEIR TRUTH, and speaking facts as athletes...yet so many comments are gaslighting them like their stories don't matter. They only have empathy for Caitlin. It really is a cult and I don't want nothing to do with it. This is why I can never be a Caitlin fan. I respect her level of play, but it has to stop there
@@arepas Yep....these Caitlin stans....the just flock to stuff like bees to honey. It's like they see her name and just fly in to defend their insane narratives and not even listen to the discussion. Many of them in the comments here clearly did not listen to the podcast. They just saw her name and wanted to flood the comments.
I appreciate so much of what you said and your measured voices in the midst of a lot of noise. I think you’re absolutely right that the early narratives predisposed people to see evidence of what they were expecting to see based on those narratives. I also feel curious about the ease of calling out the -isms when it relates to historically marginalized groups and the challenge of how to reasonably and respectfully comment on the treatment of a straight white player (or having that player be a favorite) in the league without that being seen as encouraging or engaging in white privilege, racism, homophobia, or diminishing others in the league. To be clear, I’m certain there have been racist, homophobic, misogynistic acts in the mix. But not everything labeled as such has been so. That’s a part of the nuance that is also missing from the conversation, I think.
Thank you!
Thank you for this conversation. Thank you both so much for doing the pod and having this talk so people can learn and build the fan base! Much appreciated!!!!
Thank you both for displaying responsible leadership and speaking on multiple essential levels which impact the game and the lives of the women who make it so authentically tremendous. 👏❤
Sue...with all due respect. You and I both know she was targeted on a few of those. Come on now.
Lin Dunn actually had to make calls to get them to chill.
Is sue afraid to say targeted,cc was on 3 different plays.
She said not targeted more than typical, given she was a high profile rookie in major sports. Did you actually listen to the whole podcast? This is part of the whole "nuance" thing they were talking about.
She was targeted by one team, and that one team flagrantly fouled her - brutally - 4 out of 4 meetings.
If you have league pass, look it up.
Onyenehere, Carter, Diamond, Reese.
@@lindadunbrack6498 You make good points....All high profile rookies get "targeted" to some degree. Do these people thing Candace parker, or Sue (Sue even talked about her experience), or Diana, or Breanna Stewart, or Maya Moore and many others that came into the league with a lot of hype weren't "targeted?"
I feel like Sue has so much more to say but is holding back. She's knows what happens behind the scenes. It's like she touches the fire but but backs off to not get burned
Agree. This behavior aimed at newcomers to the league has been going on for years. Difference is, with Clark now in the league, everyone is seeing it. The W has to clean up their act or it may fade back into the position it has been in for years.
Probably a lot of truth in this statement.
100% she wants to tread the conversation carefully
I wish Sue would bring up Swoopes misinformation that was a huge reason why many people were mad at legends "hating" on Clark.. maybe she does im still watching podcast
@@mogulermike959 I hoped she would've brought that up too....that was big in this, and was another thing CC stans blew way TF out of proportion.
I agree with everything said here with the exception of their take on Christine Brennan . Her line of questioning was not out of line in my opinion in fact it’s probably one of the more refreshing moments in this w coverage. There was a lot of toxic discourse online regarding all the speculation on that play and what she did is allow both players , let’s be real DC wasn’t the only one asked. The opportunity to denounce the online arguments, that was that. It was the WNBPA’s reaction that threw gasoline on the fire. That is what it was so we need to be honest about it, true journalism is never comfortable, if you want truth you need to have difficult conversations and that is the problem with the W.
Christine Brennan is pioneer in the field and and champion of Title IX. She done a lot of good for women's sports. At the same time she's controversial figure and was banned and unbanned in a sport before. Saying all that, I think her wording with "swatted" wasn't the best, but at the same time she asked a perfectly legitimate question, gave Carrington an opportunity to respond.
What about the hate that has been hurled against Caitlin, like that post showing someone point a gun at her. How is that not scary for her. No one ever talks about the hate thrown her way
This is such a crazy lie i can’t tell if you’re joking or not 😂
Even this one videos comment section is full of people taking about CC being tHe rEaL vIcTiM oF rAcIsM….
If she dips out of the league, it won’t be because of what happens on the court, it’ll be because of the creepy obsessive weirdos who are clinging to her coattails for their own agenda.
Of course not . And why , is the most simple why ever… 1. Straight 2. White 3. Not a Drama Queen . The world doesn’t like those people, and doesnt rate them. And the sad thing is that if Caitlin starts fighting back , all those that bully her on the court and off , would say : seeeeee ??? She is awfull right? Ive been trying to to tell youuuuu!!!! So basically this is gaslighting to the max. Very female like , and unfortunately for CC there is no known defense for that in this kind of world we are living in today. Where the truth and facts are not important as false victimhood , throwing word privilige around not knowing what it means.
Literally everyone is talking about the hate “thrown her way.” That’s the point. Almost no one is talking about the racist assumption that Black women are animalistic heathens while Caitlin is an innocent white damsel in distress. It does a disservice to all of them, including Caitlin.
Thanks Sue and Megan for this frank conversation. It's what my wife and I talk about every single game we watch.
The Core problem of the targeting Caitlin Clark narrative would not exist if the referees would call the fouls on her. But not one player was thrown out of a game this year for flagrent fouls against Clark and the Eye Poke from Carrington was just ignored by the refs just as many rekless closeouts like on her first 3 pt attempt in the second playoff game vs the suns from Bonner. And the "protect Caitlin from Techs commitee" is just there because Caitlin wants to chew out the refs, because they are not protecting her from getting injured that is not compareable to other players "targeting" Clark (one is fouling the other is complaining about the fouls to the refs).
🤣😂
In that same game where DeWanna Bonner committed a landing space foul against Caitlin Clark that wasn’t called, Erica Wheeler committed that same type of foul against Marina Mabry that also wasn’t called. You are attributing intentional disregard to an action that can be easily explained by incompetence. The WNBA refs are well known for their incompetence and it has absolutely nothing to do with Caitlin Clark, save the fact that she’s brought more eyes to the league and those eyes are simply seeing the horrific officiating for the first time
You are the problem
@@ginteeThey're so sad and deluded. 🙄🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Instead of seeing that players are showing respect for her shooting prowess, they can't be convinced that she's not being "picked on" by "jealous women"(or worse terms).
Barkley needed to be called out!
The comments from the people who claim to be Clark and Indiana fans in this comment section are actually proving Sue’s point!
1- Clark does not need the protection and infantilizing of those who benefit from her viewership because they created a protected narrative. She really is a great player and is deserving of the fame, but not the narratives and agendas that are attached to, her basketball.
2- People who are defending Clark are not talking about the racist images of Clark as Derek Chauvin on George Floyd ask Carrington) neck nor how Clark’s own teammate had racism herald at her for dropping passes.
3- People are exposing themselves and their isms!
fans protect sports idols all the time what are you 5?
Exactly. 💯
You're 100% right! They don't WANT to listen to Sue Bird and Megan's comments and testimonies. They just wanna believe the lies they've created in their head that everyone is out to get CC! It truly is an illness
Excellent and informative conversation. Much of the media seems to only care about creating outrage to create clicks. Thank you for calling them out and educating us all.
I think Christine Brennen was actually doing her "job" in asking that question and was giving DC a voice to say her truth. The internet was relentless in showing that clip over and over accusing Carrington of intentionally trying to poke Caitlin in the eye. Let us remember social media unless corrected will condemn a person. For example, Caitlin was accused of doing the John Cena "you can't see me" to Louisville Player Hailey Van Lith. When in actuality Caitlin did the gesture to her on bench and strength coach. But it never got corrected and social media ran with the false narrative. The false narrative was picked up by Angel Reese and Angel Reese thinking Caitlin was being disrespectful to Van Lith did it back to Caitlin. Creating such a total mess there was a meltdown on social media ALL BECAUSE OF a false narrative that was never corrected. Christine Brennen should be thanked for asking the question not vilified for letting Carrington address it! Carrington should have been prepared to answer the question - she had to have known it was coming considering the social media attention to that play!
Had Brennan been "only doing her job", she would have had no need to ask the follow-up question bc when she asked DJ if the eye poke was intentional, she said it wasn't. So why would you ask if her and a teammate were laughing about it if she already told you it wasn't intentional and she didn't even realize it happened at first? Brennan came in with her own narrative under the guise of unbiased journalism. I don't care what her past accolades are. She has lost all sensibilities trying to write this book about Caitlin.
@@lshereej5553 Both questions were necessary because both of those clips were going viral and were very damning of Carrington. Carrington was given the chance to respond, and she did. Chennedy Carter handled a different way she didn't respond when asked about her shoving Caitlin to the ground. And what happened next was Chennedy was hounded. DC should be glad she got the questions, and it was smart for Carrington to respond.
@@sulleys1929 That makes no sense. Why was it smart? What did it resolve? If anything, the vitriol became worse.
No she wasn't. Christine is using DC as fodder for her unauthorized book she's writing about Caitlin.
@@lshereej5553and you think criminals don’t lie about what they did and why they did it? Did you see the video later in the game where Mabry and Dijonai were joking around and Mabry pretended to poke her own eye out while Dijonai laughed? THAT is what reporters do. Or lob soft questions for them to answer. Have you heard the pre and post games questions asked of players? They basically are asked leading questions where all the players do is say ‘yeah…’
Regarding the WNBA players association, I disagree. Have they supported 'all' players or just a certain social group of players. If the WNBA is going to be 'inclusive' they need to be 'all inclusive' protecting all players including their minority players: white, asian, native american and hispanic. Christine Brennan asked Caitlin the same question she asked Carrington. Did the players association come out to protect and speak up for CC? Did anyone?
Um, yes when she asked Caitlin she wasn’t accusing her of anything, she was asking her were you a victim. Big difference.
@@BlueLetters13 Yes, yes that's true. Though I think the media has badgered Caitlin all year and tried to bait her with questions pertaining to race and online harassment and how does she feel about it and what her colleagues are going through, etc. 1st half of the season it was non-stop for her to have to deal with. You could tell she was exhausted and fed up. Not once did the players association come out and say, hey, stop it. that's enough. Instead, they let it continue, until Carrington was asked, yes in a baited and really stupid question of 'did you do this'?. Why only now step in and protect this player.
@@margiesavage3222Ma’am, I know you’re a fan of Caitlin Clark, and I’m a fan of her game as well. She’s an exciting player to watch… But are you really saying she needs player’s union protection from being asked questions about the harassment her fans are giving other players?… The difference between her and Dijonai is Dijonai was already receiving death threats, and that reporter was trying to push a narrative that could get her harmed. Caitlin is not in the same boat. I hope you can see the stark difference between the two.
@@BlueLetters13 The topic here is media asking loaded questions to bait players into a response that can be used against them in order to write a story that incites hate. Do you believe Caitlin hasn't been under the same pressure from media that could cause her harm, though she travels 24/7 with a security guard? And can't go out in public safely without one. Has been harassed incessantly by people like Antonio Brown. You say the harassment that Carrington is experiencing and death threats are from Caitlin fans. I don't think these are Caitlin Clark fans. These are mentally ill people who are not fans that Caitlin is responsible for. I guess that's the difference between your thinking and my thinking. You're feeling that Caitlin hasn't experienced any harassment by the media which this topic is about and doesn't need protecting by her own players association. But when Carrington is asked a question about whether she intended harm to another player, then you feel that bated question deserved the response from the players association to call the journalist out. So they're only there for her, but not for Caitlin. I disagree with you. I think Caitlin deserved protecting long before this question was ever posed by Christine Brennan to Carrington. They should have come out and made a statement a long time ago and they didn't. Instead, Caitlin has had the support from people like Shannon Sharp telling people to lay off of her. Because her own association wouldn't do that. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'm actually a huge fan of Carrington. I think she's a fantastic defensive player and I always look forward to seeing her play against Caitlin. It makes for a very exciting game. But this has nothing to do whether you're a fan of one or the other. This has to do with whether the media is doing their job appropriately or not with regards to all players. And if players are going to be protected by their association, and if so it should include all players. If this is an inclusive association, it should be an all-inclusive association.
@@BlueLetters13well said
SUE BIRD for the win!!! I like how you talk about this. I don't like them targeting a fan base or new fans. There is a narrative that if you like one player you have to hate the next which is furthest from the truth for real fans. You can root for everyone if you want.
So everybody deserves equal treatment except Caitlin Clark? 🤔The WNBA put out a narrative targeting Caitlin Clark fanbase by attaching it to trolls while ignoring that a majority of the trolls representing other teams have been abusing CC more than Anybody, remember that pic of Dijonai choking CC? They started it then, hypocrisy, we'll never stop calling them out
I've been watching basketball for close to 50 years. I have NEVER seen what Carter did to CC when the ball WASN'T EVEN in play! you people are denying the obvious. And even the refs are horrible in the way they call the game when CC is involved. Case in point, CC wasn't allowed landing space while attempting a 3 pt shot against the Sun in the playoffs and no foul gets called allowing Carrington to score in transition. That's a 5 pt swing that altered the game! At least make an attempt to be objective. That's all what the fans are asking in your analysis.
Did you see what Clark did on the play before? Then you understand what happened… And that does not justify the amount of virtual or hatred. That Carter got in response… Someone literally went to her tour bus and tried to approach her! But no one talks about that!
@@HonestLeighSpeakingNobody talks about the last part because it has nothing to do between Clark and Chennedy. Also what did Clark do? Talk shit?
@@HonestLeighSpeakingthe tour bus incident was debunked. Didn’t happen. I saw what Caitlin did on the previous play. It was nothing and it was in the context of a basketball play. Carters was blatant. I like Chennedy’s game but that was targeting.
I have like a million times by a million players in the W .... in the NBA, etc. Right here on RUclips there are thousands of compilations of rough play in the W
This is CC Stan talk. Kelsey Plum talks about getting completely decked by Diana Taurasi a couple of years ago, very similar to what happened with Chennady and Caitlin. But, she just got up, dusted herself off and kept going (Like Caitlin did), and no one made a federal case of it.
The wnbpa did nothing when Antonio Brown made disgusting deregatory attack on caitlin btw
They ask Caitlin hard questions all the time.. Caitlin never complains.
The interviewer asked a question we were all thinking.
1000000%!!!!
And Carrington did not complain. The interviewer is a Clark fan girl. She's obsessed, and it was piss poor journalism
Speak for yourself. That's such an unserious question to ask a professional athlete.
@@uscitizen3252 why is it unserious? She hit her in a game, which is her job. So the reporter asked a question, which is her job.
@@DollFaceKilla please. It's a sport. Do you know how many times players get "hit"? Brennan's question was a race bait. Carrington answered it professionally, but Brennan followed up with another unserious question. Brennan has a fetish for Clark, and she wanted the attention.
I am a huge supporter of Megan and rhe NWSL. As I’ve begun tapping in to the WNBA, I’ve been shocked at the racism and hatred pointed at CC. It opened up the possibility of a backlash toward the players who were targeting her with cheap and brutal fouls.
As far as the Carrington questions, it is perfectly appropriate for the reporter to give the player a chance to answer the questions that are still circulating the net. I don’t think the reporter had a negative point toward Carrington.
Finally, when the WBNA players realize that most of us don’t want to see the rugby matches on basketball courts the popularity will spread out.
BTW, it’s not her being picked up full court. It’s the Chennedy Carter type blind side body checks with Reese cheering on the bench.
Love hearing you both discuss this sensitive subject and share your insights based on your own experiences. Thank you! =)
Thank you for devoting so much time to such an important topic, I really appreciate the athlete perspective. I really feel like the media has totally lost the plot here and are assuming because CC is so popular people only want to hear how great she is and it leads to the antagonistic-driven narrative and a hyperfocus on 1 person that isn't helpful for that player (CC), the other (amazing!) players, the fans or growing the league. I'm an Iowa City native - CC's popularity in Iowa was driven initially by being family-friendly, accessible and super entertaining. People loved that their daughters looked up to these players. People came for CC and then became completely attached to her teammates. My love of Iowa WBB led to me learn about so many other B10 players, SC's dominance, Angel, Kamilla, Cam, Juju, Kiki, Hannah, even Lynnette Woodward. I was looking forward to learning more about W players this summer but it really hasn't been as fun. I don't know how we went from a spotlight at Iowa that shined broader the brighter it shone to one at Indiana that feels so hyperfocused like sunshine through a magnifying glass burning up everything underneath. It sort of reminds me of NBC's olympic coverage in 21 and 22 where Simone Biles and Mikayla Shiffrin (among others) were so hyperfocused it detracted from everyone else and was an impediment to them vs the paris games where it felt like they finally shifted to a broader view, broadcast the stories of the day (not predetermined!), amplified joy and had the highest ratings in many years.
I love you ladies!! Great, great, great CONVERSATION!! THANK YOU!!!!!
You ladies cooked so hard on this! 🔥 Us CC fans can be crazy, opposing fanbases can be crazy, but the seriously toxic stuff is trolls who exist in all fanbases!
I really appreciate the nuanced, intelligent discussion. I feel like I've learned from it, which is rare for online material.
I still do not find Carrington's denials credible, notwithstanding the loaded question. For a professional at her level not to know that she hit an opponent in the face is literally incredible. Also, her answer to the loaded question was a diversion about her motive. It would have been so simple to say something like "of course I wouldn't try to injure another human being" or something like that. Considering that the referees called no foul on the eye gouge, it is easy to see unequal treatment at work.
“The most disrespected person in America is the Black woman. The most unprotected person in America is the Black woman. The most neglected person in America is the Black woman.” - Malcolm X
Thanks for saying what should be obvious to anyone with good intentions and needs to be said by the same.
The comments about targeting omit the Chennedy Carter and Diamond DeShields incidents which were clearly targeting and flagrant non-basketball plays. Sue shouldn’t ignore this
She didn't. She said what Chennedy Carter did was wrong. Did you listen to the whole thing?
By continually talking about the trolls just fuels the situation. We’re talking about a very small number of people, the smart thing is get off social media if these things affect you.
They're essentially saying it's no longer about just trolls. It's a ton of media and fans running with this narrative.
The issue isn’t the trolls - the issue is the media creating racist narratives
@@arepas but is was initially fuelled by social media trolls. To say that Fever fans are racist is just massive bs, like most of s**t being pushed. Get off social media
They love being victims
So people showing up to the team hotels and busses are just trolls? Have you ever been a woman-much less a Black woman-on the internet?
I have to agree with the fact that there was an adjustment period for Caitlin and the rest of the rookie class. I’m a CC fan- although recent fan, I promised myself to watch her games from college before watching her WNBA career.
Now, I may not speak on a 100% confidence because I have new things to learn, but even for me, I did notice that Caitlin DID have an adjustment period in the beginning. I mean, how could she not? The girl was playing professional ball 2 weeks after her NCAA Championship- she’s exhausted and her body is too.
The one issue I have with some of the CC fans is that they’re so dead set on the fact that Caitlin didn’t have an adjustment period and she was amazing from the start. Not to say she wasn’t great, but comparing to her performance post-Olympic break, her performance in the beginning of her season was proof that she definitely needed to get adjusted. She was still good, but she wasn’t college Caitlin YET.
People can be a fan of Caitlin but still accept the fact that she’s a 22-year old kid who’s still in her ROOKIE year. She’s gonna get tested, and although I do not agree with some of the fouls against her, you just hope that Caitlin stands up and proves the haters wrong.
Caitlin’s a tough player to go up against, and that’s a fact as seen in her last 2 years of college career but now, she’s also going up against professional players who have been in the league for more than a decade. Sometimes experience does overpower skill, but that doesn’t make Caitlin less of a good player. It’s okay if she struggled, it’s okay if she lost.
Remember that this is the worst form of Caitlin that we’ll see. From this point on, she will get better as years pass and she will earn more respect than she has now.
More 1 hour+ episodes please 🙏🏽
Love your show. I am a new fan who is a CC fan. I totally agree with Sue's point that on the court, CC is not getting targeted more than any other great player. One thing I would like to bring up is the way the WNBA is being officiated. I have heard several times that "Well, the WNBA is a physical league". I have watched other games and I find the officiating to be inconsistent. Caitlin is not the only player being hit in the head with no foul called. This looks like to me the NBA when MJ came into the league. The Detroit Pistons where the bad boys but the whole league played with the hand checking and hard fouls that I currently see in the WNBA. The NBA cracked down on this and while there is still physicality in the NBA it is not the hand checking, cheap shots that were there in the 80s and 90s. I would submit that many new fans are coming into the league and watching only CC. They see the hard fouls many times not being called and do not realize this is throughout the league. I believe that this type of play with hand checking, hard fouls is boring just like the hard fouls and hand checking in the NBA was boring. Once the NBA allowed the Magic Johnsons, Michael Jordans, Steph Curry to co0k, it became a much more exciting league and more fans started to show up. The NBA was in financial trouble at the time. I believe that if the WNBA just schooled their Refs to not allow the hand checking and call the hard fouls when they occur regardless of who the player is, it would be a much more exciting league. I see more players coming into the WNBA that will have the artistry of CC. Let them cook!
Thanks for having upfront conversations and it is important to have debate and opening up discussion about tough topics. Staying away from absolutes is important, as in life, there are not a lot of absolutes so this damages trust. The "loaded" question issue, that came up, addressing something (long fingernails in the eye) the journalist KNEW would be picked out and shared, I feel was doing HER job. This IS her job. It was a great opportunity to look at "safety" around long fingernails. I cannot imagine that it would be ok to have spikes in elbow pads in football, for example. Not addressing "spikes" on nails AKA long fingernails in a sport like basketball, where , they are scratching, eye poking etc, , as been seen and experienced, is irresponsible. It deserves to be addressed around "safety". Just because something is hard to do, AKA, poke someone in the eye, does not negate the fact that safety should matter. I hope they end long nails in basketball. The "warnings" of the damage long nails is doing IS there. Thanks for talking about issues. Welcome to fame. It has its positives and challenges. ugh. THAT we are talking about things IS where things can get worked out. Love & Light.
As a basketball fan, I was so waiting for this episode to come out as there were some epic games from Game 2s of first series to Game 1, 2 of semis and I was hoping to get Sue's takes on it. I totally respect the choice to speak about the disgusting nature of the recent coverage, but am absolutely bummed we didn't get a nice W analysis this time.
Actually covering Caitlin full court is no issue and like Sue said it is a compliment to her as an athlete. Media definitely has skewed and fuelled the hatred and narrative. However, the cheap shots and over the top aggressiveness like Thomas’s or Stevie’s screen while basketball plays, the WNBAPA should work with their players and mentor them with the talk to media, set a standard of play amongst their players to care about the safety of each other. However saying this there should be no cheap shots and ejection from game, suspensions of future games, and fines to players and their organizations would lower the likelihood of future safety for players. I am a big fan of women’s basketball and am sadden by the growing racist comments. Ironically many are from some men and that even makes it worse. Thanks for tackling a challenging topics.
Im trying to get through this with an open mind but its very obvious no one cares about Caitlin or what she went through this year. Its ok, it will only make her greater but it is still disappointing. She doesnt walk around with security everyday FOR NOTHING. But since shes not a drama queen she gets the shit end of all sticks with the league and players, both past and present.
💯
Well said 🙌
Then you're not listening to this with an open mind. You're listen with a strong Caitlin bias. So that means you don't care about the WNBA as a whole and the other women in this league. If you're a true fan you would care about ALL their stories. You just WANT Caitlin to be a victim and that's a problem.
@@memoir02 wa wa wa . That’s the problem with narcissistic gaslighting women they are the cause and still find a way to make an argument for why they’re the victim. The audacity of those who belittled and victimized CC with zero justification and still say they are the victim of why they preyed on her.
Then you need to remove yourself bc you didn't listen at all! She's a white woman, why would she need security?! It's comments like YOURS that continue to perpetuate hate and you decided to come to this comment section with more hate and an obtuse POV that doesn't make any dam sense. We don't want your kind of hate in this sport
Thank you for always having important conversations with so much nuance.
Great session. I think the issue is it never was called a foul.
💯💯💯
I've been watching WNBA this year after NCAA finals brought Caitlin Clark video shorts to YT -- where internet sports journalists focused on Caitlin Clark. She reminded me of every athlete I ever followed -- Examples: Kareem from high school in NY, at UCLA and with the Lakers; Magic from college at Michigan, and then with the Lakers. And, later Kobe from Europe b4 he practiced with Philadelphia b4 the NBA to the Malibu mountain on that tragic, foggy, February morning. And, I've listened to Olympic coverage with DT, SB, and Megan Rapinoe over drinks on one occasion. Very entertaining! (Serena and Venus Williams are my draw now to tennis after watching Billie Jean King, Martina Navratilova, and Chris Everett. All track stars from Flo-Jo to She'Queri et al 2024 -- and Simone Biles, and the Olympic icote skater, Debbie Thomas back in 1984?? ... anyway, I see the rapport and the jealousy/cut-throat manner of play (Bill Labeaure, NBA, comes to my mind as a poster boy athlete of dirty play). All that said -- all the -isms, race, gender, unequal pay, etc. are very frought topics in the culture. So, I would expect the WNBA would struggle with this; everyone else just about struggles with it, too.
All that said, you know being a rookie sucks! You've just gone from the top of your game in college, generally, to this cauldron of crap that was exposed this year in the WNBA during your first year(s). Good news: The men tried to compliment the extraordinary talent, which is why we're all here, and chill the drama. When that happened, I knew Caitlin was no flash -- she's real deal. Men aren't heading into drama otherwise. People like Shannon Sharpe, and other cable ESPN etc. sportscasters are the analysts I listen to casually, but Charles Barkley spoke up for CC -- the same guy early in his career who got all wrapped up claiming he wasn't a role model for kids. My how times change -- thank God! The bad news: The WNBA issue does not seem to have been resolved. I want Cheryl Miller, and the Black coach back east whose name I can't recall -- I hope they can steer improved interaction from the background 2025.
P.S. Cheryl Miller I really admire, as well. I'm not a fan/fanatic. I am drawn to performance. What all the athletes in all of sports that I've watched since I was pre-school age, have in common: They all were crazy mad talented, dedicated and practiced 110+%. You know what I'm saying. My interest was a family thing (both parents were HBC alumnus, and family is Southern, Black) which lends itself to my approach. lol Sports are a food group! lol discuss Olympics basketball. It was fun especially since I knew their intensity and practice dedication.
What I love about this podcast is the truthful discussions. I agree with most of the views and perspectives and the rare one's that I may disagree with becomes an opportunity to expand my views. Will it change it? Maybe, maybe not, BUT it will enhance my ability to expand my knowledge and make me a better person.
The DT statement struck me as straight up sport talk. Basically I took it like "bring it and let's see what you got"...totally positive. Then DT gave her the ultimate compliment after the Fever defeated the Mercury. She's continued to compliment CC ever since. Fans that aren't athletes can't comprehend that bring your stuff not the fluff talk is an opportunity for athletes to receive the support and props of their peers. To me DT is my kind of athlete.
As for targeting, my take is the horrendous officiating, that at times were blatantly obvious, allowed for the conspiracy talk. I mean, either call it equally or put your whistle in your pocket. Players adjust to the officiating. That's part of sports. But when you give CC a tech for pounding the pads then not call it on others, including DT, it gives fuel to the targeting rhetoric. When they don't call a safe place to land rule that further enables the targeting rhetoric. Remember the Jordan rules? The Hack a Shaq rules? When I saw the reverse view of Carrington's eye poke, I'll admit, I thought it was intentional. I'll further admit that her tweets about the Fever influenced my take. However, both she and CC put that to rest...move on. Though I had a problem with Carrington's tweet I wouldn't apologize for supporting the love of my world and I don't think she should either. To me she should have realized the negative effect it would have and articulated it better. Conflating all these things enables skewed perspectives.
The WNBA, and some Players, failed miserably when it comes to creating a united front to reject the idiots and the trolls. Instead of controlling the narrative they laid down and complained. Imagine this, when CC denounced and rebuked the stupidity the WNBA should have created a media storm highlighting that. Create a media release with CC and all the great players she idolized and promotes saying unequivocally that they don't accept this craziness as a united front. The real fans of CC and basketball would join the movement and take ownership and rebuke the idiots. Now imagine this, AT instead of attacking ONLY CC fans and having the audacity to say the Fever should treat us like kids was insulting. With a united front strategy AT could've pointed to that and trust me she'd get a ton of support. Yes she should be taken on her own merit but why not call on your most effective ally in this situation to rebuke the stupidity? But to take a shot at fans like me, a basketball fan that came to the WNBA because of the attraction of CC, was unproductive. As a basketball fan I am blown away and sometimes slap myself upside my head for missing all this great basketball. For missing the careers of the greats like Sue. This isn't just basketball, it's FRESH basketball...it's a FRESH opportunity to get excited. Geez, even India is talking about it now...Cricket fanatics are being told about the WNBA. My professional career was to implement strategies that increased the net revenue and valuation of companies. A critical element, if not the key element wast to listen to the valid issues of the employees, whom I regard as the key to success. Once trust was ingrained and they became empowered they took ownership of the company. The Players are the ones that need to be empowered and in turn take ownership of their product...basketball. And its from that standpoint that I say the WNBA failed.
As for the social issues that SHOULD be addressed I will simply say this. I come from a race that was threatened with extinction if our Queen did not surrender. My ancestors were willing to accept their fate. Our Queen was locked up in her own palace and from that place asked our race to put down their spears, while having guns and cannons pointed at them. Our native language was forbidden. Our land was taken. Our traditions were mocked and skewed to benefit capitalism. Generations for over a century lived with a sense of shame and oppression. President's Grover Cleveland and Bill Clinton had the courage and integrity to declare the overthrow illegal. In Cleveland's case he lost his re-election bid to McKinley but was re-elected after 1 term. I am a heterosexual man that spares no effort in letting all those around me know about my love and respect for all the LGBTQ+ in my life. One of them, in my opinion, did what a hospital couldn't...she saved my son's life. So what's my point? These issues are in need of unity and empowerment not division and hardened attitudes. We the Hawaiian people have finally stopped feeling ashamed and helpless and for the past 20 years we have found effective ways to bring back our culture, language, and self determination. We are a far way from stopping the discrimination and opportunistic oppression but we are now moving forward and not dwelling. It started with unity and empowerment. Unity includes people that were part of the perceived problem. Yet it was their support after realizing the truth about the status quo that put us on a forward moving trajectory. Both sides took responsibility for a better humanity. At the end of the day we are humans...FULL Stop!!
11:25 well this just isn’t true. You can’t watch the Sky versus Caitlin and not see how she was targeted lol I mean come on. Like 1 in 5 flagrants from the entire 2024 season were against CC 80% of which came from Sky games.
Go back and watch what happens right before all these "targeted plays". CC gives just as good as she gets and she doesn't need protection.
@@lshereej5553 you’re delusional.
She reciprocates sometimes yes but she rarely to never initiates. You just wanted to discount and belittle the hard fact I gave. It didn’t work babes.
@@lshereej5553 She reciprocates sometimes yes but she rarely to never initiates. You just wanted to discount and belittle the hard fact I gave. It didn't work babes.
@@rbb.828 Oh she definitely initiates. Take the blinders off. This is sports and she is just as competitive as the rest of them.
@@lshereej5553 I watched every single game and I didn’t wear any blinders. Why don’t you try to reassess her without your clear bias?
I will preface with the fact that I have followed the NBA since 1999, and the play has always been a physical and aggressive game. I appreciate the rational discussion by Sue and Megan, the thing that I think that was not addressed was the quality of the officiating. The fact that obvious fouls against Caitlin Clark were not called feed the narrative of targeting. The fact is that the officials have been bad across the board, the public notices the failure when Caitlin gets (pretty obviously) hit in the eye and no call is made, or Carter makes an obvious non-basketball foul and it isn't called as a flagrant. Those make Sportscenter. The officials have been bad and not called those fouls when they occurred against A'ja, Angel, or Rikea, but those don't make Sportscenter. The WNBA needs to make an improvement in the area of officiating to help to quash the targeting narrative.
Sue, that has been Charles Barkley's narrative this whole season. Blaming the WNBA players and calling them jealous and petty. Not that one time. All season long. I feel the same as you about Charles. I have always adored him, but he has really let us down.
Charles is correct, unfortunately. I certainly don’t expect Sue or Megan to agree with him publicly.
the truth hurts
@@BryanDuncan-g6bCharles is DEAD WRONG. How is he gonna know these women's stories better than THEY do! Ugh
First off, Charles can’t let anyone down because himself has said he is not a role model.
He is there to give his opinions.
And the jealousy from the W players towards Clark is evident.
Is not about narratives. It’s about facts.
The common factor between Charles Barkley, Stephen A. Smith, and Shannon Sharpe is them wanting signing a long term deal with their network... Charles Barkley deal with TNT end 2025 as well as Stephen A. Smith with ESPN.....
Why are we taking advice from some one who couldn't hold his temper through out his NBA career being sue several time including throwing someone out a bar window.... Charles had stated multiple times he watched more women games the last 2years than his whole life....That doesn't sound like a supporter.... Has Charles Barkley ever watched a women game in person...Because it seem like he would've a biased opinion then working for media to keep this drama going.... He doesn't want to talk about women basketball because it work require more work to remember people names...
Thank you both for a great show. Much Respect
Ma'am, if you think that Caitlin Clark isn't targeted, how can you explain the 18% flagrant fouls to Caitlin from the Sky player?
Literally it's a whole podcast on this being a false narrative.
@@arepasliterally there’s video saying otherwise.
@@crs1474and it’s trying to rewrite the narrative to try to minimize things. But there are things that cannot be minimized until they admit it happened and then they work to fix the problems. If players hate and target, suspend them. If people accuse falsely, they need to publicly apologize (ie AT of the Suns). And so on and so on. Receipts need to be used to return the past to normal.
Y'all lack the most basic comprehension. Neither of them said she wasn't targeted, they said she isn't targeted by jealousy, because nobody wants the performative so-called "fans" that Caitlin Clark has.
@@arepas literally there are podcasts about everything. So what? I bet there is a podcast that says you are a troll too.
I love that they emphasize they know sports, they know basketball and they should be listened to. How are people talking about something they've never done? It's tiring that Sue and Megan have to address things that are obvious. People are taking things out of context on purpose.
Thank you Sue! Im a fever fan and the amount of hatred I get just because I love my home team is insane!
okay, i think i sort of represent the newer WNBA viewer/casual fan. On the other hand, i do follow the NBA and NCAA men's basketball religiously. I've never watched a WNBA game before this season. I started watching women's NCAA college basketball during the 2023-2024 season because i started to hear a lot of noise about Clark & Reese. When i watched them, i became intrigued because i like both players' style of play. These 2 players seemed to have gotten significantly more exposure before coming into the WNBA which i think was good for them. The only person i really heard of before them was Ionescu because she was in a 3-point shooting contest with Steph Curry. So for me, if it weren't for both Reese & Clark, then i'm not sure how much WNBA i would be watching right now.
Maybe, WNBA players need to start marketing themselves more through their own social media platforms if the league isn't pushing for more marketing/exposure. Only recently have i seen commercials with WNBA players. The NBA definitely has its cast of superstars and villains but manages to still be successful & grow.
I've noticed an increase in ticket prices for the WNBA, so it looks like their future is bright now. I'm even trying to plan a trip to watch a live WNBA game sometime next season, likely the Vegas Aces. As i'm watching the WNBA playoffs now, i've become a big fan of Aja Wilson, Kelsey Plum, & Napheesa Collier. I"m also looking forward to seeing how well next year's rookie class will do in the WNBA such as Paige Beuckers and possibly JuJu Watkins.
My 1800 voice lmaooOoOo. This episode makes me feel sane when seemingly amidst a sea of trolls.
You both are the best! I’m so exited that everyone is able to experience A Touch More with you. I’m an OG from the IG live days and hope that you’ll be brining back some of those guests for interviews as well 😉
I am part way through your talk about the WNBA issues, and I am loving hearing you talk about this. When I refer to the toxic group of CC fans, I don't call them fans; I call them fanatics. Trolls and bots aside. There are decent CC fans, and there are rabid, obsessive CC fanatics.
This is a great perspective. I thank you guys for diving into this conversation.
In my personal opinion I wish the league and players would keep things more about basketball. Sports are supposed to be entertainment and an escape from the challenging world. Some of us prefer our entertainment to be free from the heaviness of the world. The other reason I would prefer less social justice issues in entertainment is that it will steal the show every time. Why work so hard to be so great for things racism to be the star of the show?
Because it is your escape and not theirs. They are being harassed followed threatened. You want them to shut up and dribble to be entertained? Why not use your voice to stand up for yourself and others bc more people would listen. They already out their bodies on the line for your "entertainment". They have to be harassed, threatened. Etc ans just take it so you can escape and they cannot just be entertained? Bc thats essentially what you're saying. More empathy and sympathy goes a long way
@@ebonygoddess7 They are being insulted, stalk and harassed. Just this week I seen Lamar Jackson speak out against toxic fans yet they want these women to shut up and dribble.
@@MeshaM-i7t And I can not get behind the shut up & dribble. They have the right to speak out for themselves especially when it comes to harm
@@ebonygoddess7 My opinion matters too. I am a black women who’s experienced racism and sexism as well. I have different approach to navigating this world successfully that doesn’t include having a victim mentality. Everyone choose their own path✊🏽
@@jazzyjasism No one said your opinion doesn't matter. And as a black woman your empathy should be higher. I as a black woman do not believe calling out racism, sexism, or any other ism isnt victim mentality. Im sick of hearing that. Its ignorant. Now good day black woman
What is wrong with a reporter asking a player if a foul was intentional? Like they wouldn’t ask Draymond the same question. Or Grayson Allen
I'm SO GLAD that Sue spoke up about this! She spoke HER TRUTH as a player, and damn anybody trying to discredit her! It's getting out of control and alot of the media has been VERY IRRESPONSIBLE, pushing this narrative that all the non Caitlin players are jealous bitter petty women who are out to get her. The racist/bigoted sector of Caitlin's fans (which is huge unfortunately) pushed that narrative and sadly alot of media pushed it! Stephen A Smith, Shannon Sharpe, Barstool Sports, Charles Barkley. Christine Brennan, RGIII. I wanted to root for Caitlin, but with the 1000s of people using her name to slander black women and ALL of the WNBA players before her. I cannot stand for that
Always the victim @memoir02. Show any proof of verbal/racial attacks by Clark fans??!! With so many alt and burner accounts online nowadays, no one knows who is behind any verbal attacks. It could even be the racist Sheryl Swoopes posing at a CC fan!
Swoops, Jamill, Mcnut, Elle, Reece, Aja, Carter, Carrington said Clark has all the attention and got the deals because she's white.
"The racist/bigoted sector of Caitlin's fans (which is huge unfortunately)"
You just made this up.
Great show and important conversation.
I have to say that it isn’t completely one sided. The media needs to do better, but it seems unfair to give a pass to writers such as Nancy Armour, Andrea Williams, Andrew Jerrell Jones, Jim Trotter, etc. who seem to be trying to villainize CC and her entire fan base.
I also don’t think it’s fair to assume all MAGA are violent so players should feel unsafe when they are at games, especially for a league that prides itself on inclusivity. To be clear, I am not a Trumper.
Also, the Chicago Sky team was met by paparazzi at their bus, not some crazed fan.
Big picture I think the message should be don’t feed the trolls. I 100% think media should be better with coverage, but also the league should be blocking bots/trolls and helping investigate true threats. Players should also consider dealing with hate privately because unfortunately it perpetuates the non-basketball narratives. I don’t say that to silence women; the league should be responsible for addressing the threats.
Love the pod ladies! Thank you for doing this
It became draining to follow wnba. I know a lot of people in my circle muted wnba related content on twitter bc they're tired of these think pieces and negativity. The WNBA needs to undergo media training. Both players and the media should move past unproductive discussions that overshadow the actual game. These debates lead nowhere and only escalate tensions. It's pointless to try changing the behaviour of internet trolls or far-right groups who latch onto the WNBA to push their own agendas.
this!!! people don't understand that some player are disingenuous about Caitlin and it shows
@@Asma-h7g I find disingenuous when people say that there's no jealousy, envy from players towards Caitlin. A lot of them look at Caitlin and think that they not getting the same attention, endorsements like her because they're not white and/or straight. A prime example is A'ja Wilson, who told Plum that what puts Paige over the top is her white privilege. Even before Caitlin entered the WNBA, A'ja told the Associated Press that Caitlin’s rise is tied to her being white, and it "boils her blood" when people dismiss this racial factor.
Yesss, everyone and their mama attaching themselves to Caitlin because she brings clicks, engagement.
I don’t disagree, but while she pointed out that racisms misogyny and homophobia have always existed against the W, it has escalated this season. It’s not CC’s fault, it’s her leeches posing as fans.
@@TF-vb9us Everyone and their mama attaching themselves to Caitlin because her name brings engagement and clicks. What can you do about internet trolls and personalities like Jason Whitlock? My biggest frustration, that many within the WNBA community and the media giving attention and amplifying these toxic narratives, creating a cycle of negativity that ultimately leads nowhere.
@@TF-vb9us fans arent the problem; its CC's peers and the organization
I think that the WNBA is quite obviously a tougher league than college. As it should be. I also think that defensive strategies - picking a guard up in full court for example - are fine. But every once in awhile there is a defensive player &/or coach who understands that the best way to defend that star player is to knock them out of the game. See Peyton Manning vs the NO Saints for proof of that.
I would like to take intent out of a lot of Flagrant fouls. An NHL player is responsible for his stick, except when he is shooting. That means that if he inadvertently sticks an opposing player, he still gets a penalty. WNBA players should be responsible for their bodies. Reach in and gouge someone in the eye (or a similar foul, like dangerous close outs) should be at least a Flagrant One and easily upgraded to a Flagrant Two - on the spot - if it's a habitually dirty player. The game can be played tough, but permanent injury to a star is just around the corner if the WNBA doesn't deal with this in the off season. People pay to see stars.
Nah, the WNBA players are soft and full of jealousy
Flagrant fouls work the same in the WNBA. Even if an act is unintentional and the result an acceptable basketball play, if it results in an injury to another player, it can be reviewed and upgraded to a flagrant foul. Caitlin receiving a poke to the eye should have been a foul and probably would have been upgraded if called and reviewed even though Carrington was just making a play on the basketball. Unfortunately, it was missed by the refs. It wasn’t an intentional no-call by the refs, the WNBA refs are just pretty consistently terrible, but that mistake in officiating has nothing to do with Caitlin Clark or Dijonai Carrington.
I missed the part where they address what Geno said... just wondering...
They don’t have to its unnecessary let it go yall grown men and women 🤦♀️
He gave a basketball critique. What part of that don't you understand?
@@ninacruisehis critique was wrong, biased, wrong, self serving, and wrong! Hahahaha
He was right. She wasn’t a legit MVP candidates, fans and media set her up to fail, and she needed to get stronger to be successful. (She did in a season). Her team improving is what he was wrong about..but he nailed the issues with Caitlin. Get over it.
@@shaylynn848 she was an MVP candidate. You are an idiot saying she wasn’t because she got 4th amount of points from votes. If the media weren’t following the A’ja Wilson is MVP narrative from before the season, Collier and CC would have gotten more points. And you clearly don’t listen. Geno said that people were delusional thinking she is a candidate for MVP and oddsmakers were giving her odds for placing 3rd or 4th in MVP. Guess what? The oddsmakers were right and she was 4th. Just like oddsmakers said CC is hands down favorite for ROTY. Get some facts before you start to spew hate on CC. This is how and why people talk out their ass when they really shouldn’t.
We need the A Touch More song by: Megan and Sue every episode btw
Watching the semi-finals last night, and listening to you now, I must say that the game is too physical! I don’t want the game to turn into 10 Shaqs banging around. I don’t know how Breana survives, or how any team can score more than 64 pts. Call the fouls! If they had done that, all the eyes on CC wouldn’t be thinking the league is against her, and the awesome talent would be allowed to shine. That is what we want to see. If all the women playing last night were drafted into our army I would feel safe at night. They were in a battle!
Basketball is a physical sport. The NBA is just as physical. However the refs are awful
@@MeshaM-i7ttheir inconsistency is the main thing. They reaaaallyy need to overhaul W officiating in the off season and pay whoever survives tougher requirements more.
Do you know that what is a foul is not defined in the WNBA rule book‼️I had to go and check because I thought CC22 was being fouled much more than they were called. The refs seem to call whatever they want a foul‼️
@@rbb.828 yep they either don’t call fouls or they call a bogus foul. I’m over it
Very interesting subject ladies and I find myself agreeing with both of you on everything. I'll try to keep it brief because I have so many thoughts on this with many examples, being a big sports and entertainment fan since before you young ladies were born. Number one thought is behavior during public events whether it be sports or other forms of entertainment like plays, concerts... events with an audience.
Many of us were taught from an early age how to conduct ourselves. We are the guests at these events. It's okay to clap, cheer and make ourselves heard but mostly in a respectful way. We are quiet when actors are speaking during a play. We don't go up onstage and interrupt an award ceremony because the person receiving the award deserves their personal platform up there. In sports it's okay to boo, and that we did when we disliked something we saw.
Times have really changed from the simple allowed audience participation to what has recently been over the top behavior. And it starts with allowing the audience more of a voice until it becomes out of control. Does anyone remember when fans did not wave loofahs when the opposing player shot free throws? How about when the refs would stop a football game when the fans got too loud and the visiting team couldn't hear their play calls? The line has been moved each time with the acceptance of a certain fan behavior.
As for the over the top stuff, some people behave the same way at these events as they would at home, with no filter. I am also noticing that many who cry for freedom of speech use it as an excuse for behaving badly, and that does not sit well with me. So much more examples that I have observed throughout the years. I'm not famous and wouldn't attract many followers on a show to voice my experience but would love to dissect this whole audience and fan behavior issue with someone because I have personally seen many changes.
Hah, so much for brief!!!
I love the KP / Spike moment as part of Kelsey’s WNBA legacy lore. Her personality is perfect for creating those playoff basketball moments. She will let folks KNOW👏💪😆
This was so interesting, thank you for this candid and long-term conversation
Such a great, great episode! Loved it so much. I will give Christine Brennan one slight benefit of the doubt, as she has been a fantastic journalist for like 40 years and has never shown a shred of racism...I do think she would've asked what she asked Dijonai if it had been a white player that got tangled up with Caitlin...It just looked A THOUSAND times worse that it was Dijonai, given all the other racial undertones...But the bigger thing is, you can't breathe on Caitlin without it being news. Things like this happen all the time...Players get tangled up, inadvertent elbows and knees happen, but, it's never really news...But, anything with Caitlin IS news. I remember when Sue got tangled up with Lelani Mitchell in game 5 of the semis in 2018, as Sue thought she had grabbed her mask, and there was a dust up that had to be broken up, but, after everything settled, no one mentioned it again. As mentioned before, these things happen all the time, but, haven't really been newsworthy until now.
The problem is you don't have to go back that far.... Jewell Loyd was poke in the eye on June 27, 2024 while going against the Indiana Fever.... One eye was completely closed during the game and she still scored 34 points
Was Breanna Stewart interview after Alaysaa Thomas blackened her eye on May 27, 2023. Was Thomas ask if she did it on purpose...
During the same game, did they ask Carrington if she felt CC elbow in the face on purpose.... Stop the nonsense..... it basketball 🏀
The fans are going to lose their mind In the 2028 Olympics playing under Fiba rules
@@henryt.hurleyjr.4850 Great call on this!! I just remembered that instance with Sue from six years ago, but, I love the examples you provided, and you are so dead on. As we've pointed out, these things happen all the time, but it's never news and players aren't asked about it, it's just brushed off because it's basketball, and the game has some physicality to it. I hadn't even thought about the Olympics....those CC stans are going to lose their minds, because you're right, FIBA is a MUCH more physical style of play.
I feel Caitlin needs to shame those negative influencers more often. I have only seen her speak once about the negative fans.
I miss my wnba. 😢
Love seeing y’all at Liberty games! Sue, why don’t you cheer?
Instead of being resentful towards Clark the WNBA needs to amplify the positives that are happening because of her & her huge fan base. Stop amplifying racist trolls and amplify the big ratings surge & sold out arenas.
It's so telling that Clark fans never view stopping the racism and bigotry as a solution. It's always deal with it for the sake of ratings. Nobody is accepting that nasty behavior, and they shouldn't have to.
You two would make the best Baywatch spin-off show! 😅 I'd fake a heart attack as soon as I saw them...
Thank you for this episode. My RUclips group chat has taken a very dark turn this year and it makes it hard to enjoy the games.
Put my first episode of this podcast on today because I thought I was missing some good content but I see this is just another podcast where we aren't going to tell 100% of the truth you cannot say that Caitlin was not targeted in some games look at the percentage of flagrant fouls that were on Caitlin it exceeds anyone else in the w. These women are catty bitter jealous and can't handle their emotions Carrington did intentionally in fact poke her in the eye if you can't see that then you two are part of the WNBA narrative props to Christine Brennan for asking real questions everyone saw it on TV it was in fact intentional
The reporter was not responsible for how people on social media react. People can see what happened with their own two eyes. The question absolutely needed to be asked. Zero racism was in the question.
Very few humans are able to discuss issues in an intellectually honest manner…
Thanks for explaining things in a way that makes total sense. However, I still think that the WNBA has some work to do on refs, there are too many "physical" actions that should be fouls. If the WNBA wants to increase viewerships not only when Fever is playing, they should propose a show that can be viewed by families where unnecessary violence is banned and not celebrated.
A mature, insightful, even handed conversation that thankfully avoided the need to reiterate expected talking points
These two are very civil and measured but this is not a hard hitting conversation and with Sue’s experience it could be more so and actually make a difference
@@BryanDuncan-g6b I don't know if it has to be, because so much of it has just become "discourse". In my mind it's more on the proper media to engage in this and not just take their prompts from Twitter and tiktoks
Disclosure: I’m almost 50, white male, avid NBA fan, and a “new” CC fan- not necessarily a WNBA fan. For the first-time in my life I bought the W League Pass, so I could watch every CC game. It even led me to getting cable again because some of her games weren’t live on LP. My wife and kids thought I was crazy… With that said, I’ll be canceling cable now that CC’s season is over… lol.. anyways.
My biggest gripe with listening to WNBA legends and folks that have covered the W for many years is the notion that the main issue the W hasn’t grown or been successful was because of racism, misogyny, and homophobia. I have no doubt that those concerns have played a small part in the lack of access and acceptance of the WNBA, but I do not support them as a main contributors.
I feel the main contributor has been the quality of product . I don’t mean that with any disrespect, but after watching my first WNBA season this year- I was stunned by what I saw. After watching the NBA and playing in basketball leagues for many years, I had an assumption the WNBA would be relative to the NBA. Maybe the women would be a little smaller and slower, but the skills would be comparable. Unfortunately, that’s not what I saw. I saw games where scores at halftime were in the 30’s routinely. I saw multiple blown wide open layups, shots hitting off the side of the backboard, multiple air balls, more shot clock violations than I’ve ever seen, top guards that can’t go left and right to the hoop, too many players that can’t shoot above 75% from the stripe, and very basic sets (but the NBA hasn’t gotten bad there too). Lastly, I know the W prides itself on being physical, but I would argue the physicality of the play is due to just poor defensive skills. The footwork is visibly bad, and the older I got, the worse my reaction and footwork got, so I became more “physical”….
So why did I watch? Because CC’s shot is comparable, actually better, than most NBA players. She plays, in many ways, with a lot of skills you see in the NBA. But even though she’s a top 5 player in the W, she can’t make a wide-open left handed layup- it’s frustrating.
Now - the argument is that I’m just a hater and not a real fan. I do not feel I am a hater, but I will concede that I am not a true fan of the W, YET! If the W wants to become profitable and gain lasting viewership- unfortunately, men have to be the target audience, that is unless the W just wants to be a charity case for the NBA.
When I talk to my coworkers and friends, they all say their issues with the W are all the same things I pointed out. Either they’ve never watched, or this year was the first time they caught a W game and were shocked by the product on the court.
The point is, men are not going to want to tune-in to watch the W to listen to players, commentators, or analysts claim the lack of success of the W is primarily based off of the racism, misogyny, and homophobia - it’s just not true. If you feel activism is more important than profit - great.. that’s awesome, but it will come at a cost. On a personal level, I love it, but never forget that it is a business first - no matter how much activism dressing you put around it.
Anyways, I respect your views, and I am not trying to be negative. I am trying to give you the perspective of the AVID NBA fan and casual W fan. I’m only a few years out of the target male demographic that the W should be targeting.
I'd just like to add one of the main reasons I took DTs initial comment of Clark a little too harshly was based on Sheryl Swoopes, another legend talking about Clark on Gilberts Arena podcast oct 16th 2023. Seeing a legend share things that weren't true at all, and then DT say somethings that looking back werenn't even that harsh, the timing of it all just made it more of a big deal for me. Now i see that DT wasn't out of place to make those
All Sheryl Swoopes said was that CC needs to be more efficient...which is true. That's not being a "hater". And by the way, Sheryl Swoopes was Caitlin before Caitlin. She just played at a time with no social media and no internet, and no streaming. Look at what she did at Texas Tech....TEXAS TECH!!!!! She had giant crowds following her, and a big following...Without her, the WNBA may not even exist, as she was a central figure to the league's initial marketing campaign, and was the first woman to ever have her own shoe. So, she has some understanding of this kind of thing.
@@elliemyers6435 1. "becuase there's a covid year... she's had an extra year to break a record.. so is it really a broken record?" 2. "Lets also talk about how much more experience that gives you over other players.. but you have a 25 yr old playing against a 20 year old, like, you should be killin it" 3. "Caitlin probably takes about 40 shots a game... I know you like that.."
just 3 things in one podcast that are so easily fact checked by looking at stats.
1. She didn't use the extra covid year. 2. had just turned 22 a few weeks prior to swoopes saying that. 3. FGA per game: 19.7
to your comment, nothing wrong about saying CC needing to be more efficient, I dont have a problem with that comment. I dont think thats being a hater.
@@mogulermike959 ruclips.net/video/gOMhN-hfMtY/видео.html
I agree with everything you guys said but I’ve noticed for a very long time that some of the girls do have really long nails. I play basketball in Europe and our nails get checked before every game and if they’re any bit long we have to trim them or we aren’t allowed play. So I do think that’s a problem, not related to the Dijonai thing
Sue seems like a pretty intelligent person but when she says we still aren’t talking about basketball…that’s literally ALL the Indiana Fever players and CC talk about. Just basketball..
It’s seems social media, media and podcasters and players on others teams are the ones not taking about just basketball. It’s tiresome and is not helping lift up the W or any of its players. It's encouraging disfunction. Good luck gaining respect with this strategy.
I like this podcast but I have to look at it again because I didn't agree with some bits of it‼️