@@Keith_Horn*crispy beer bottle opening sound* Jerry Goldsmith. *crispy beer-pour sound* Clear as a mountain stream. *beer-pour sound finishes* A composer, with no guilt or remorse. *sound of two people going ‘aaah.’* no morality, just refreshing hops, and pure chilling music.
Goldsmith's score reminds me a lot of Scriabin/Nemtin's Mysterium, where the harmony and orchestral timbres evoke a similar kind of cosmic Lovecraftian horror
Thank you. I discovered this a few years back while reading up on Scriabin's mystic chord. I played the notes and discovered that it's the notes of the melody when the Nostromo is making it's approach to the planet. I can't find where anyone notices that.
As a massive chord geek, I couldn’t be happier to have found your channel. Love the breakdown of the theory behind the chord, genuinely so so interesting!
im not saying this is false. and don't have any research to back that. i do wonder how one figured that out. i do realize i must not be concerned beyond that. i am aware my stance may change on this. i may be a mouse. i want to take a break.
What an amazing chord. Fascinating how complex one single chord can be and what atmosphere it can evoke. This chord alone sounds truelly alien and forboding. This space between the notes resembles the widness of space. Instant sub! :)
Nice little analysis of this chord, really enjoyed the straightforward explanation of choosing to use large intervals! It's worth mentioning if you're interested in Goldsmith's more 'romantic' take on the intro, you can find videos of the first score dubbed onto the introduction to Alien quite readily on youtube. If you watch/listen to those videos it's interesting how such a nicely written piece of space themed score just doesn't work with the film - maybe as someone whose seen it a bunch it just doesn't sit well with already knowing the plot but it also contrasts the way the Nostromo looks and the hostile atmosphere of the film's opening quite poorly (imo obviously).
I have heard that cue against the main title and you're right that it's interesting but doesn't quite work for the film. Thankfully Ridley Scott didn't replace Goldsmith with another composer.
The spaced outness of it (pun intended) makes me think of space. Range wise, there are many places for the ear to shift it's focus to within the harmonic structure (think vastness of space) but no matter where you direct your attention it all seems the same, in this case all m7s (being the space is almost all the same, empty. But that doesn't mean it's empty, something is bound to be out there, and when we don't know what, that's terrifying)
@@Keith_Horn Augmented Major chord has the same property - as the notes are evenly spaced, there is no root note, it feels like an unanswered question. It also appears often in some sci-fi movies to make a mysterious vibe - especially, it works perfectly when used as the crescendo!
Nice one! There are rather interesting intertextual links with beginning of Alien's score as well. The very first bars relate to Holst's Saturn: tritones in flutes oscillating between a major second - the ticking away of time in vast space for the crew & of course the 'space' connotation in previously established music. Secondly, after we see the title screen and transition to space, we hear a trumpet over static string octaves. That always sounded like a reference to Ives's Unanswered Question to me.
One very interesting thing is that, in chords by fixed intervals, you can group the same notes in a different order, typically you want to try and group the notes by thirds, as you would in traditional harmony, and you end up precisely with a much more familiar chord that you can use in music based on functional harmony. You basically have a Bb7 (to be precise, Bb9+5#11), in 4th inversion. Goes like this: Bb root, D major third, F# augmented fifth, Ab minor seventh, C major ninth, and E augmented 11th. As the dominant function works quite well "accepting" all extensions and alterations, it produces an interesting sound. Great video. Great channel. Subscribed. Cheers!
GREAT LESSON! I enjoyed it and I'm already subscribed to your channel. But one thing I learned during my Orchestration lessons from a long time ago, is that such chords are gems with a self value...... BUT it's in the capacity, audacity, sensibility - to call it somehow - of resolving it in a pleasant way to the ear of the listeners. That's the reason why I don't like Debussy's so much. I can realise that the guy was a genius, but for my personal taste it's like his music have more tensions as releases. But, again, it's a matter of taste.
This is such a good point for conversation. Everyone has a different relationship to resolution in music, it seems. I like how you phrased it "tensions AS releases" - I personally like that in music because it it gives me a sense of continuous slight of hand - and that's fun for me. Some music leans a little too much into tension to the point of relentless disorder, but that's just my personal taste.
Just having a break in the middle of a long day working hard on music and I stumbled onto this. I hadn't realised that I needed inspiration, but just a simple idea about one chord has just prompted so much to play around with. Thanks.
Brilliant ! The amount of classical music genres in this soundtrack is really impressive. We go from Debussy, to Stravinsky, Mahler, Penderecki to Ives. I can listen to it without watching the movie. Talking about Ives, this chords and the whole ambiance in main theme with the trumpet sounds like a mix of "Central Park in the Dark" and "The Unanswered Question" from Charles Ives. Funny then, that Goldsmith uses words like "unknown" and "questionning".
Just found your channel with this video. Absolutely Genius. Chords are food for my soul. ❤ This video channel is getting me back into keyboards. Thank you 🙏
I am pretty sure this is the exact same chord that is known from a very cult/cliche sound effect commonly associated with horror/ thriller jumpscare/dark realisation similar to 'da Da DAAAH' or the screaming violins in jaws and the Psycho shower scene from some similar very fameous classic horror/thriller back from the golden days like the 50s or 60s perhaps. If you dont know which sound effect i am talking about then try the following visualisation, istead of playing it spaceous, mysterious ambiguous, aetherly and ambient and vert string pad like, instead first imagine the chord being played broken up from the bottom to top like how you did at 4:00. Now imagine it being done by something like horns and wind instrument (maybe a full orchestra or a bigband) and with a subito forte or marcato on each note followed by a crescendo after the full chord is revealed that escalates untill thevwhole chord is literally shoyting and shaking whereafter it instantly cuts off to silence completely. I might be wrong but it definitely reminds me of it alot. It could also be Major 7ths instead of minors perhaps🤔
Caug7#11, the chord/scale relation being the C wholetone scale is what I think too. I don't think that chord is too uncommon (and of course the augmented sound itself is definitely common), but the voicing of stacked minor 7th's is pretty unique! I love the alien soundtrack, I didn't know Jerry Goldsmith composed it.
Much of the Goldsmith Alien score was never used but the temp track of unused scoring from Goldsmith's Planet of the Apes was used instead. The soundtrack released on CD does not match up with the movie score completely. Some of the actual soundtrack used was for the journey to the bone ship, the ventilation shaft and when Ripley eventually meets the fully grown alien for the first time.
My favourite film score of all time is James Horner's Wrath of Khan score. It's perfect. Then Alan Silvestri's BTTF score. Then Hans Zimmer's Inception score.
Fantastic, great video. It reminds me of the extraordinary guitarist Allan Holdsworth, who likes to use special voicings and intervals. I can also recommend it.
Nice!!!! Whenever the brilliance of Alien is discussed, I seldom hear the score mentioned, and this is also the first time I hear that OLDER Goldsmith music is used. Very interesting.
he didn't really "license" music from freud, they were using various pieces as placeholders while editing, which is common practice, and that one placeholder cue that made it into the final cut only did so due to ridley thinking it fit better than what jerry had wrote for the scene (the acid blood scene). jerry wasn't happy about it as you can imagine
@@commandercaptain4664 this is true, i do think the freud song works pretty well though. i think the deluxe score may have jerry's rejected cue for that scene as it features a lot of unused alternative versions, i'll have to listen to it again
Goldsmith says “they had bought the music from Frued and put it in that spot” in this interview ruclips.net/video/U8bv0QDLI7M/видео.htmlfeature=shared at 12:15 Maybe license isn’t the right word, but they had temp love in that scene for sure.
@@Keith_Horn yeah, they bought it to use as a temp score as was common practice, licensing is a different thing. but yeah, i feel for jerry but it happens. at least it was another piece by him, that's not always the case
That open arrangement automatically gives me the feeling of something romantic, but of course it's uncomfortable sonority, I imagine when he found the chord he didn't think twice and said that's it!
Great video but for me the Alien chord is the one in the Hanson end credits music. Soothing after the chaos then an out of the blue a sinister,foreboding reminder that it’s not all over.
I would suggest that it is not quite fear because fear is immediate and demands action. Its more like depression, hopelessness. the chord suggests one has given up and surrendered to darkness. A single minor 7th sounds near humorous, like a laugh. Two minor 7ths take on on the quality of a minor 6th which is a feeling of reverence, a feeling of religious certainty, the near reverse of a laugh. We do not laugh in church because amusement and reverence contradict one another. Three minor 7ths take on the quality of a tritone, a feeling of depression or defeat, a feeling of frustration and despondence which DO go with reverence and with laughter, four minor 7ths again take on the feeling of the minor 6th again, reinforcing a feeling of reverence, of absolute certainty. to cap it all off five minor 7ths again return us to amusement which as the top melody note dominates, but with the notes beneath is totally neutered. So the cumulative emotional effect is to combine emotions that do not work together, because amusement and reverence cancel each other out and that leaves the middle note, the tritone as the only unconflicted emotional state which note gives us bitter defeat,. Its like all has been lost and nether prayerful reverence nor bitter laughter can save us, pointless merciless defeat that has no resolution is the emotional state that the chord suggests, its worse than fear by far.
That is a deep and nuanced emotional analysis. I hadn't considered the effect of interval pairs having their own emotional content and combing to form something more complex
@@Keith_Horn To me it seems surprising that there are so few attempts by theorists to assign emotional affects to relativistic interval ratios in order to explain emotional affect in music, since relativistic interval ratios are at the basis of music. Instead we strangely have many attempts to assign emotional affect to absolute key signatures, for which the emotional difference is almost impossible to discern. Why neglect to attempt to discern the obvious while making many attempts to discern what is vague? The common assumption seems to be that emotion only comes in after the assembly of intervals into chords or scales of some kind or even whole compositions such that emotion is just assumed without evidence to be what is called "emergent" To me the emergent explanation (which is nearly universal ) seems very weak because intervals clearly have their own individual character! Its as if we said that atoms consist of elements rather than elements consist of atoms. the simplest chord is 2 notes and the simplest melody is 2 notes, an interval ratio in ether case. Whats more intervals also apply to tempo and rhythm, the simplest polytempo is 2 tempos at the same time ( rhythmic harmony, for example a whole note and two half notes at the same time) while the simplest polysequence is two tempos one after the other (rhythmic melody, for example a whole note followed by two half notes), Both of these are the rhythmic equivalent of an interval (in the example an octave). If we listen we can hear that the interval of the octave has a similar mood whether its two tones at once (harmony) or one after the other (melody) or two tempos at once (harmony) or one after the other (melody) and so it is for all the other intervals! This strongly suggests that specific combinations of FREQUENCY RATIO whether in the audio range (ratios in tone ) or in the sub-audio range (ratios in tempo) and whether in sequence or in parallel evoke the SAME emotions with different emotions evoked by different ratios. We then can trace this to brain function where any two neurons communicate based on the ratios between their firing rates. If this is true then music works to create emotion because it resembles whats going on in the brain to create consciousness of emotion. The idea is simple and obvious, but simple obvious ideas are often the kind that are most resisted by the established authority in any field because counter intuitive complex ideas provide more opportunity for the sort of arguments that attract the readers that fuel publishing, as in sports a final resolution is not supportable of a sustained industry so is rejected. Science should seek final resolution however, it should not be conducted like a sport, but often is anyway because that is the better political and economic choice. They who seek final resolution impede the sustenance of the game which would explain why the attempt to identify the emotion evoked by each interval has largely not been made.
@@billwesley "surprising that there are so few attempts by theorists to assign emotional affects to relativistic interval ratios in order to explain emotional affect in music, since relativistic interval ratios are at the basis of music." Although I have a rudimentary understanding of music theory, that is a question I've always wondered. Is this really such a neglected topic?
@@stevowilliams8279 in terms of serious discussion, yes. Most persons feel emotion is associative and not inherent, or that it is only a function of many intervals in the composition and t5hat single intervals are devoid of emotions such that it is "emergent" I disagree however.
I’ve long had a weird relationship with Alien’s music, because as a 10year old I was shown a book of stills from the film that really affected me. At that time I was listening to Dave Stewart’s OST for a Dutch film called Lily Was Here, which I’ve never seen, despite loving the music (it was one of the first albums I ever owned). So in my mind, that soundtrack strongly evokes images from Alien, which has since become one of my favourite films. For over thirty years there’s been two things I really need to do: 1. Actually watch Lily Was Here (though it’s not supposed to be very good). 2. Cut a version of Alien that replaces Horner’s (incredible) score with Stewart’s music, just to see if it even remotely works. Also, I’m sure it’s partly because of the Piano (Rhodes?) voicing you’ve chosen, but those Debussy whole tones immediately make me think of Badalamenti’s Twin Peaks scores.
I've never heard that score - I'll give it a listen. It would be a fun project to cut a different score to any of the Alien films - especially the first two films. The electric piano does give some Badalamenti vibes, doesn't it?
@ I guarantee you’ll have heard the title track from Lily Was Here. But most of the rest of the music isn’t really like that. I hope you do check it out. I do really love it - not least because it was such a formative part of my musical education.
That chord, when the individual notes are played ascending up the scale, sounds very similar to that chord from Planet Of The Apes, which Goldsmith also wrote the score for.
@Keith_Horn I looked at quite a few clips from the old movie, but I can't find the exact sound I'm looking for. I'll keep you posted as I am interested in a comparison as well.
@Keith_Horn ruclips.net/video/jWE2DuVXIV4/видео.htmlsi=00c2orc-IXmvagc9 From :50 - :56 I THINK this might be what I was thinking of, but it's not Goldsmith. Similarities and dissimilarities aside, I believe this may have been what I was thinking of.
@@Disciple_Of_Lerxst Great chord! Sounds like C-Ab-D-A-F-Db-G-Eb. 8 note atonal pyramid chord! not sure what to call it, though! might need to use set theory to label it.
I consider it related to some lost (read: copyright vaulted) experimental work by Marius Constant... the best known of which became the Twilight Zone theme. Also Ives "Unanswered Question".
Consider me a new subscriber. I think it’s interesting that stacked 7ths are such a horror movie staple. Obviously they’re dissonant, but also extremely versatile. The shower scene in Psycho used stacked major 7ths
👽🎶 Gotta love any video about Goldsmith! Great video, Keith! Director Ridley Scott also asked Goldsmith to make the Alien score more minimalistic so I wonder if that also might have influenced the approach to this chord.
wow fascinating premise for a channel....very nice combination of music theory and motion picture soundtrack...subbed 🤗 (and yes the youtube algorithm brought this sci fi guy here 😄)
Very interesting, I haven't really thought about the Star Trek connection before now, but I just gave the Alien main titles another listen and I think I hear some similarities.
The chord of the week is a fantastic idea. Is this chord in the key of 'C'? What type of scale do you think would work best if someone wanted to add melody to it?
@@steven_yotis thanks! It doesn’t really conform to a key. It’s technically a complete C whole tone scale with a really open voicing. So if you wanted to add a melody that corresponds to the chord, you could use a whole tone scale. Personally, I think writing a melody outside of these six notes is an interesting idea since there is so much open space to work with.
Hey mate! I’d love to hear what the play station 2 chord is. :) Even all the PS intros would be epic!! Love these vids. Thanks for another awesome one. 😎
There's lots of these kind of chords in Lalo Schifrin's work. Listen to the soundtrack to Enter the Dragon, there is loads of these kinds of chords and tonal inflections. Music is great isn't it? xx
the top F# to the G, since it's one octave + 1/2 step means from F#....... (F#) G makes the interval from that top F# to the next G, is actually a b9 (Flat-9): so you have stacked bottom to top: m7 m7 m7 b9 m7 .. so from what I see, the F# -> G (octave+1/2 step) is a 9th.. in this case a FLAT-9.. confirm..
You can hear nice chord sequences like that on the Solaris soundtrack by Cliff martinez, check out the track called Hi-energy proton accelerator. And is there any chance you could analyse that track keith if you are reading this. I'm sure one of the chords used is the exact same one used at the beginning of the close encounters of the third kind movie composed by John Williams. Thank you.
@Keith_Horn thank you, it's a beautiful ambient soundtrack that complemented the slow pace of the movie perfectly, I liked it that much I went out and bought it on CD. Anyway all the best with the channel, interesting stuff with the jerry Goldsmith Alien analysis, he was a true great composer. 👍
"AKSHULLY" That chord isn't at the beginning of the film, just the soundtrack. Ridley and Goldsmith historically butted heads quite a bit (See LEGEND) with Ridley asking for one thing but getting another. In the end I actually prefer Ridley's choices with the weird, creepy percussion noises during the title sequence.
@@LAZ-org Right! We don’t hear the chord until :90 into the main title. I prefer the Ridley Scott-approved version, too. I didn’t’ t know that about Legend - I have to give that film another watch.
I’m going to experiment with building modwave or multi/poly patches that implement this chord across oscillators. (@keithhorn, glad the algorithm threw this in front of me! Liked and subscribed!)
If you HAD to give the chord a name I would suggest C9b5b13 - however, it is really a "Varese-type" chord based on stacked intervals (in this case, a m7th). One question: is the bass note a sloppy written C or a B? It looks like a B, which would place that whole structure over a bass note a semitone lower (in jazz lingo - a slash chord: C9b5b13/B !!!). I don't hear it in the recording and haven't checked the original score out yet, so maybe not. . . but if not - that would also be a neat creepy chord.
That label works! Thinking in those terms - resolving to an F minor sonority would be interesting. It's definitely a low C but if it was a B it would make for a nice E9 (b5)/B.
Maybe a 7 string could pull it off with some RH fretting? You'd probably have to tune the 7th string to open C. Or let the bass player cover the bottom 2 or three notes? 22nd fret for the high D!
Ha! In college I knew another student composer from France and he always insisted on pronouncing it that way and it got stuck in my head. Turns out he was in the minority of how it's pronounced. I'll work on it 😂
I love that! It's very alien lol 🙃 it's like, maybe Xenomorphic music is built on 7ths instead of 3rds or 5ths! That's one of my favorite movies and I never really focused on the soundtrack like that. I think that shows how great he is that I just accepted it as part of the overall film!
For those trying to figure out this chord - I can't lie to you about your chances but.......you have my sympathies
@@RickGraham this chord is a beast
Jerry Goldsmitrh... a composer creature ... no conscience or guilt, no remorse or delusions of moraiity....... just pure chilling music! 🙂
@ sounds like a beer commercial for Jerry Goldsmith😂
@@Keith_Horn*crispy beer bottle opening sound* Jerry Goldsmith. *crispy beer-pour sound* Clear as a mountain stream. *beer-pour sound finishes* A composer, with no guilt or remorse. *sound of two people going ‘aaah.’* no morality, just refreshing hops, and pure chilling music.
@@sub-jec-tiv Classic!😂
I heard there was an Alien chord that Jerry played and it pleased nobody because the void is dark and hostile
HAHA! (llelujah)
And them a dark creature came
Killing everyone and that's a shame
But the cat was smart and hides in the shade
Alienlujha
@@jmgcg That is next level commenting.
I think that it also creates a sense of anticipation with a hanging non resolved tonic. It feels infinite.
It absolutely does
Goldsmith's score reminds me a lot of Scriabin/Nemtin's Mysterium, where the harmony and orchestral timbres evoke a similar kind of cosmic Lovecraftian horror
Great connection - I’ll give that another listen.
Exactly how find these gems....people's love of being off the beaten track but giving us directions 👍👍🥇
@@colinhamilton2217 I cannot recommend the Scriabin piece enough... although it is addictive and will leave you with an existential nightmare!
Thank you. I discovered this a few years back while reading up on Scriabin's mystic chord. I played the notes and discovered that it's the notes of the melody when the Nostromo is making it's approach to the planet. I can't find where anyone notices that.
@@MiguelCruz-oz7km The Nostromo melody is the notes of the mystic chord? Amazing.
As a massive chord geek, I couldn’t be happier to have found your channel. Love the breakdown of the theory behind the chord, genuinely so so interesting!
@@FraserBernstein thanks! It’s always nice to connect with a fellow chord geek.
I've always loved this chord! And never bothered to find out what it actually is... fascinating, genius.
It's very unique. I'm on the lookout to see if it was used before this. Maybe in Bartok's work.
That's "just" a Caug9#11.
Didn’t know i wanted to watch this today but here i am! Such a great score!
Thanks for watching!
This chord literally IS Infinite ! The sound of Outer Space wrapped in 6 notes....
Maybe we should call it the space chord?
in outer space there's absolutely no sound, due to the lack of atmosphere. Welcome to Reality.
im not saying this is false. and don't have any research to back that. i do wonder how one figured that out. i do realize i must not be concerned beyond that. i am aware my stance may change on this. i may be a mouse. i want to take a break.
Alien is my favorite film and i study music, this was very interesting, never thought about that chord before
Great film and a great score!Thank you for watching.
the spaciousness of the intervals reflects the scene
So true - it sets the stage for the story.
What an amazing chord. Fascinating how complex one single chord can be and what atmosphere it can evoke. This chord alone sounds truelly alien and forboding. This space between the notes resembles the widness of space. Instant sub! :)
It does alien and forboding! Thanks for the support!
Nice little analysis of this chord, really enjoyed the straightforward explanation of choosing to use large intervals!
It's worth mentioning if you're interested in Goldsmith's more 'romantic' take on the intro, you can find videos of the first score dubbed onto the introduction to Alien quite readily on youtube.
If you watch/listen to those videos it's interesting how such a nicely written piece of space themed score just doesn't work with the film - maybe as someone whose seen it a bunch it just doesn't sit well with already knowing the plot but it also contrasts the way the Nostromo looks and the hostile atmosphere of the film's opening quite poorly (imo obviously).
I have heard that cue against the main title and you're right that it's interesting but doesn't quite work for the film. Thankfully Ridley Scott didn't replace Goldsmith with another composer.
The spaced outness of it (pun intended) makes me think of space. Range wise, there are many places for the ear to shift it's focus to within the harmonic structure (think vastness of space) but no matter where you direct your attention it all seems the same, in this case all m7s (being the space is almost all the same, empty. But that doesn't mean it's empty, something is bound to be out there, and when we don't know what, that's terrifying)
Well said. The stacked minor 7ths have a way of creating a cold emptiness that works perfectly for this narrative.
@@Keith_Horn Augmented Major chord has the same property - as the notes are evenly spaced, there is no root note, it feels like an unanswered question. It also appears often in some sci-fi movies to make a mysterious vibe - especially, it works perfectly when used as the crescendo!
@@weneedf16 Totally. I write a lot of animation music for TV and I use augmented triads for a variety of reasons. Very versatile sound.
All it took was you covering something regarding 'Alien'. Subbed. Great vid.
@@JUNK_ZONE thanks! Classic film, classic score.
@@Keith_HornAgreed! Also very happy discovering this breakdown and subscribed. (Debussy is a favorite of mine so was happy to see him referenced. )
@@Panzer_the_Merganser thanks for the sub! I have several chords from La Mer that I’d like to feature at some point.
Nice one! There are rather interesting intertextual links with beginning of Alien's score as well. The very first bars relate to Holst's Saturn: tritones in flutes oscillating between a major second - the ticking away of time in vast space for the crew & of course the 'space' connotation in previously established music. Secondly, after we see the title screen and transition to space, we hear a trumpet over static string octaves. That always sounded like a reference to Ives's Unanswered Question to me.
Both very intuitive observations. You're so right about Ives.
Great video! Good production, explanation, and entertaining. Thanks, mate.
Thanks for watching!
“Chord of the week” What a great idea and love the content ! Thanks 🙏
Thanks for watching!
It’s almost the mystic chord. Turn Ab into A and there it is. It’s a pure whole tone chord. The complete scale spaced in the minor seventh sound.
You're right! It's very close to the mystic chord. Nice observation
Fascinating subject, I'll follow this series for sure
Thank you - much appreciated
J.G. is fantastic! Great video, by the way. Cheers from Brazil. Alien 1979 is my favorite movie.
Thanks for watching! It's a classic. I'm rewatching the second film this weekend.
One very interesting thing is that, in chords by fixed intervals, you can group the same notes in a different order, typically you want to try and group the notes by thirds, as you would in traditional harmony, and you end up precisely with a much more familiar chord that you can use in music based on functional harmony. You basically have a Bb7 (to be precise, Bb9+5#11), in 4th inversion. Goes like this: Bb root, D major third, F# augmented fifth, Ab minor seventh, C major ninth, and E augmented 11th. As the dominant function works quite well "accepting" all extensions and alterations, it produces an interesting sound. Great video. Great channel. Subscribed. Cheers!
So true. Any of the six notes could serve as the root of their respective 9+5#11. Thanks for your support!
GREAT LESSON! I enjoyed it and I'm already subscribed to your channel. But one thing I learned during my Orchestration lessons from a long time ago, is that such chords are gems with a self value...... BUT it's in the capacity, audacity, sensibility - to call it somehow - of resolving it in a pleasant way to the ear of the listeners. That's the reason why I don't like Debussy's so much. I can realise that the guy was a genius, but for my personal taste it's like his music have more tensions as releases. But, again, it's a matter of taste.
This is such a good point for conversation. Everyone has a different relationship to resolution in music, it seems. I like how you phrased it "tensions AS releases" - I personally like that in music because it it gives me a sense of continuous slight of hand - and that's fun for me. Some music leans a little too much into tension to the point of relentless disorder, but that's just my personal taste.
@Keith_Horn it is ALWAYS a matter of personal taste. A pair of my students didn't liked J.S. Bach and I always find his music extremely beauty.....
@@SidAlienTV I feel the same about Bach - but I didn't when I was a student
Just having a break in the middle of a long day working hard on music and I stumbled onto this. I hadn't realised that I needed inspiration, but just a simple idea about one chord has just prompted so much to play around with. Thanks.
That’s so great to hear! That’s precisely why I started making these videos. To help composers and musicians explore new ideas.
@@Keith_Horn It's appreciated. Keep up the good work :)
Brilliant !
The amount of classical music genres in this soundtrack is really impressive. We go from Debussy, to Stravinsky, Mahler, Penderecki to Ives.
I can listen to it without watching the movie.
Talking about Ives, this chords and the whole ambiance in main theme with the trumpet sounds like a mix of "Central Park in the Dark" and "The Unanswered Question" from Charles Ives.
Funny then, that Goldsmith uses words like "unknown" and "questionning".
So true on all points. This score alludes to some of the great modernist composers and the Ives connection is spot on.
I love the idea of "Chord of the week".
Great stuff. Looking forward to more. Subbed
Much appreciated!
Just found your channel with this video. Absolutely Genius. Chords are food for my soul. ❤
This video channel is getting me back into keyboards. Thank you 🙏
So glad to hear that. Thanks for making my day!
You combined my favorite movie series and music theory. Liked and subscribed!
thanks! Sounds like we appreciate some of the same things.
I am pretty sure this is the exact same chord that is known from a very cult/cliche sound effect commonly associated with horror/ thriller jumpscare/dark realisation similar to 'da Da DAAAH' or the screaming violins in jaws and the Psycho shower scene from some similar very fameous classic horror/thriller back from the golden days like the 50s or 60s perhaps.
If you dont know which sound effect i am talking about then try the following visualisation, istead of playing it spaceous, mysterious ambiguous, aetherly and ambient and vert string pad like, instead first imagine the chord being played broken up from the bottom to top like how you did at 4:00. Now imagine it being done by something like horns and wind instrument (maybe a full orchestra or a bigband) and with a subito forte or marcato on each note followed by a crescendo after the full chord is revealed that escalates untill thevwhole chord is literally shoyting and shaking whereafter it instantly cuts off to silence completely.
I might be wrong but it definitely reminds me of it alot. It could also be Major 7ths instead of minors perhaps🤔
You might be right!
Caug7#11, the chord/scale relation being the C wholetone scale is what I think too. I don't think that chord is too uncommon (and of course the augmented sound itself is definitely common), but the voicing of stacked minor 7th's is pretty unique! I love the alien soundtrack, I didn't know Jerry Goldsmith composed it.
Totally. The voicing gives this chord it’s signature.
Subscribed! Great video thank you! Can't beat the Alien score for atmosphere and pure feeling of threat
Thank you!
Much of the Goldsmith Alien score was never used but the temp track of unused scoring from Goldsmith's Planet of the Apes was used instead. The soundtrack released on CD does not match up with the movie score completely. Some of the actual soundtrack used was for the journey to the bone ship, the ventilation shaft and when Ripley eventually meets the fully grown alien for the first time.
Interesting! I didn't realize Planet of the Apes was in there, too.
Chord of the week? I subbed before I even started watching the video. Excited to explore your stuff!
Thank you! I hope you enjoy the series!
My favourite film score of all time is James Horner's Wrath of Khan score. It's perfect. Then Alan Silvestri's BTTF score. Then Hans Zimmer's Inception score.
All amazing scores. BTTF is one of desert island scores.
Fantastic, great video. It reminds me of the extraordinary guitarist Allan Holdsworth, who likes to use special voicings and intervals.
I can also recommend it.
Thanks! Holdsworth might have been the only person that could have played this chord on guitar.
Another youtube random pick. THANK YOU.
Thanks for watching!
Fantastic!
Thanks! It's an awesome chord
Awesome video guy! Glad I happened across your channel (:
@@NonDewman thanks for watching!
Nice!!!! Whenever the brilliance of Alien is discussed, I seldom hear the score mentioned, and this is also the first time I hear that OLDER Goldsmith music is used. Very interesting.
That was news to me too. I just recently discovered his score to Freud after doing a deep dive into Bartok's music. Fascinating stuff.
Love it. You derived so much info from that chord. Thanks!!
Thank you!
he didn't really "license" music from freud, they were using various pieces as placeholders while editing, which is common practice, and that one placeholder cue that made it into the final cut only did so due to ridley thinking it fit better than what jerry had wrote for the scene (the acid blood scene). jerry wasn't happy about it as you can imagine
Temp tracking was a bane of film scoring in those days and resulted in many a rejected score, even from this particular maestro.
@@commandercaptain4664 this is true, i do think the freud song works pretty well though. i think the deluxe score may have jerry's rejected cue for that scene as it features a lot of unused alternative versions, i'll have to listen to it again
Goldsmith says “they had bought the music from Frued and put it in that spot” in this interview ruclips.net/video/U8bv0QDLI7M/видео.htmlfeature=shared at 12:15
Maybe license isn’t the right word, but they had temp love in that scene for sure.
@@Keith_Horn yeah, they bought it to use as a temp score as was common practice, licensing is a different thing. but yeah, i feel for jerry but it happens. at least it was another piece by him, that's not always the case
at 3:39 i thought i was seeing V sauce for a moment.
Your electric piano sounds beautiful
Thanks! It's from Keyscape
Thank you for the harmony lesson.
Thanks for watching!
Good job ! I love this content.
Thank you for watching!
the most whole tone chord to ever whole tone
Ha! You might be right.
That open arrangement automatically gives me the feeling of something romantic, but of course it's uncomfortable sonority, I imagine when he found the chord he didn't think twice and said that's it!
Very cool observations.
Thanks!
Great video but for me the Alien chord is the one in the Hanson end credits music. Soothing after the chaos then an out of the blue a sinister,foreboding reminder that it’s not all over.
Such a great piece of music!
This is excellent analysis.
@@Kev3542 thanks for watching!
I would suggest that it is not quite fear because fear is immediate and demands action. Its more like depression, hopelessness. the chord suggests one has given up and surrendered to darkness.
A single minor 7th sounds near humorous, like a laugh.
Two minor 7ths take on on the quality of a minor 6th which is a feeling of reverence, a feeling of religious certainty, the near reverse of a laugh. We do not laugh in church because amusement and reverence contradict one another.
Three minor 7ths take on the quality of a tritone, a feeling of depression or defeat, a feeling of frustration and despondence which DO go with reverence and with laughter,
four minor 7ths again take on the feeling of the minor 6th again, reinforcing a feeling of reverence, of absolute certainty.
to cap it all off five minor 7ths again return us to amusement which as the top melody note dominates, but with the notes beneath is totally neutered.
So the cumulative emotional effect is to combine emotions that do not work together, because amusement and reverence cancel each other out and that leaves the middle note, the tritone as the only unconflicted emotional state which note gives us bitter defeat,.
Its like all has been lost and nether prayerful reverence nor bitter laughter can save us, pointless merciless defeat that has no resolution is the emotional state that the chord suggests, its worse than fear by far.
That is a deep and nuanced emotional analysis. I hadn't considered the effect of interval pairs having their own emotional content and combing to form something more complex
@@Keith_Horn To me it seems surprising that there are so few attempts by theorists to assign emotional affects to relativistic interval ratios in order to explain emotional affect in music, since relativistic interval ratios are at the basis of music.
Instead we strangely have many attempts to assign emotional affect to absolute key signatures, for which the emotional difference is almost impossible to discern. Why neglect to attempt to discern the obvious while making many attempts to discern what is vague?
The common assumption seems to be that emotion only comes in after the assembly of intervals into chords or scales of some kind or even whole compositions such that emotion is just assumed without evidence to be what is called "emergent"
To me the emergent explanation (which is nearly universal ) seems very weak because intervals clearly have their own individual character! Its as if we said that atoms consist of elements rather than elements consist of atoms.
the simplest chord is 2 notes and the simplest melody is 2 notes, an interval ratio in ether case.
Whats more intervals also apply to tempo and rhythm, the simplest polytempo is 2 tempos at the same time ( rhythmic harmony, for example a whole note and two half notes at the same time) while the simplest polysequence is two tempos one after the other (rhythmic melody, for example a whole note followed by two half notes),
Both of these are the rhythmic equivalent of an interval (in the example an octave).
If we listen we can hear that the interval of the octave has a similar mood whether its two tones at once (harmony) or one after the other (melody) or two tempos at once (harmony) or one after the other (melody) and so it is for all the other intervals!
This strongly suggests that specific combinations of FREQUENCY RATIO whether in the audio range (ratios in tone ) or in the sub-audio range (ratios in tempo) and whether in sequence or in parallel evoke the SAME emotions with different emotions evoked by different ratios.
We then can trace this to brain function where any two neurons communicate based on the ratios between their firing rates. If this is true then music works to create emotion because it resembles whats going on in the brain to create consciousness of emotion.
The idea is simple and obvious, but simple obvious ideas are often the kind that are most resisted by the established authority in any field because counter intuitive complex ideas provide more opportunity for the sort of arguments that attract the readers that fuel publishing, as in sports a final resolution is not supportable of a sustained industry so is rejected.
Science should seek final resolution however, it should not be conducted like a sport, but often is anyway because that is the better political and economic choice.
They who seek final resolution impede the sustenance of the game which would explain why the attempt to identify the emotion evoked by each interval has largely not been made.
@@billwesley "surprising that there are so few attempts by theorists to assign emotional affects to relativistic interval ratios in order to explain emotional affect in music, since relativistic interval ratios are at the basis of music." Although I have a rudimentary understanding of music theory, that is a question I've always wondered. Is this really such a neglected topic?
@@billwesley Thank you for that. Has the emotional effect of intervals been codified anywhere in particular? I'd love to look into it.
@@stevowilliams8279 in terms of serious discussion, yes. Most persons feel emotion is associative and not inherent, or that it is only a function of many intervals in the composition and t5hat single intervals are devoid of emotions such that it is "emergent" I disagree however.
HE’S BACK‼️
I’ve long had a weird relationship with Alien’s music, because as a 10year old I was shown a book of stills from the film that really affected me. At that time I was listening to Dave Stewart’s OST for a Dutch film called Lily Was Here, which I’ve never seen, despite loving the music (it was one of the first albums I ever owned). So in my mind, that soundtrack strongly evokes images from Alien, which has since become one of my favourite films. For over thirty years there’s been two things I really need to do: 1. Actually watch Lily Was Here (though it’s not supposed to be very good). 2. Cut a version of Alien that replaces Horner’s (incredible) score with Stewart’s music, just to see if it even remotely works.
Also, I’m sure it’s partly because of the Piano (Rhodes?) voicing you’ve chosen, but those Debussy whole tones immediately make me think of Badalamenti’s Twin Peaks scores.
I've never heard that score - I'll give it a listen. It would be a fun project to cut a different score to any of the Alien films - especially the first two films. The electric piano does give some Badalamenti vibes, doesn't it?
@ I guarantee you’ll have heard the title track from Lily Was Here. But most of the rest of the music isn’t really like that. I hope you do check it out. I do really love it - not least because it was such a formative part of my musical education.
This is chord of the week. It's not a chord for the weak.
@@surfdigby nice one. I see what you did there!
Nice channel! Really looking forward checking out the other 152 vids!
Same! I just got here. Instantly subbed!
Thank a million! It might take a while but it's greatly appreciated.
@@billhicks9056 Thank you!
That chord, when the individual notes are played ascending up the scale, sounds very similar to that chord from Planet Of The Apes, which Goldsmith also wrote the score for.
Interesting! Do you know what cue it is? I'd love to compare them.
@Keith_Horn I looked at quite a few clips from the old movie, but I can't find the exact sound I'm looking for.
I'll keep you posted as I am interested in a comparison as well.
@@Disciple_Of_Lerxst Thanks!
@Keith_Horn ruclips.net/video/jWE2DuVXIV4/видео.htmlsi=00c2orc-IXmvagc9
From :50 - :56
I THINK this might be what I was thinking of, but it's not Goldsmith. Similarities and dissimilarities aside,
I believe this may have been what I was thinking of.
@@Disciple_Of_Lerxst Great chord! Sounds like C-Ab-D-A-F-Db-G-Eb. 8 note atonal pyramid chord! not sure what to call it, though! might need to use set theory to label it.
Subbed! Awesome video
Thanks! Much appreciated!
I consider it related to some lost (read: copyright vaulted) experimental work by Marius Constant... the best known of which became the Twilight Zone theme. Also Ives "Unanswered Question".
@@sias9546 Ives for sure. I don’t know Marius Constant’s work but I’ll give it a listen.
Consider me a new subscriber. I think it’s interesting that stacked 7ths are such a horror movie staple. Obviously they’re dissonant, but also extremely versatile.
The shower scene in Psycho used stacked major 7ths
Thanks! That's right Psycho did use Maj 7ths in the shower scene
Reminds me of slowly finding out what’s in that dark unknown.
👽🎶 Gotta love any video about Goldsmith! Great video, Keith! Director Ridley Scott also asked Goldsmith to make the Alien score more minimalistic so I wonder if that also might have influenced the approach to this chord.
Thanks! That’s a good point. It’s a great score with an interesting backstory.
Love this. Thank you!
Thank you for watching!
wow fascinating premise for a channel....very nice combination of music theory and motion picture soundtrack...subbed 🤗 (and yes the youtube algorithm brought this sci fi guy here 😄)
Thanks for watching! I'm a sci fi guy myself.
Very interesting, I haven't really thought about the Star Trek connection before now, but I just gave the Alien main titles another listen and I think I hear some similarities.
I hadn’t made that connection until recently when I gave both scores another listen.
The chord of the week is a fantastic idea. Is this chord in the key of 'C'? What type of scale do you think would work best if someone wanted to add melody to it?
@@steven_yotis thanks! It doesn’t really conform to a key. It’s technically a complete C whole tone scale with a really open voicing. So if you wanted to add a melody that corresponds to the chord, you could use a whole tone scale. Personally, I think writing a melody outside of these six notes is an interesting idea since there is so much open space to work with.
@@Keith_Horn Thank you for the reply. That is very helpful information. I appreciate the work you are doing!
Hey mate! I’d love to hear what the play station 2 chord is. :)
Even all the PS intros would be epic!!
Love these vids. Thanks for another awesome one. 😎
Thanks! Listening now - it sounds like two chords - a CMaj7 spelled B-C-E-G and a Dmin7 spelled D-F-A-C-D. The synth sounds a 1/4 sharper, though.
@ wow! You legend! Appreciate the reply dude!
The Alien soundtrack was really impressive. It's now iconic.
True and true
There's lots of these kind of chords in Lalo Schifrin's work. Listen to the soundtrack to Enter the Dragon, there is loads of these kinds of chords and tonal inflections. Music is great isn't it? xx
It's the greatest. Thanks for the recommendation - Schifrin is amazing!
1:42 start of You are the sunshine of my life - Stevie Wonder?
Right- the whole tone phrase!
ithink it sounds like an engine or my fridge. its just noise. but awesome indeed! (working on game audio engine sounds now and making them musical)
Ha! We could call the "fridge" chord!
There are only two possible whole tone scales, and this is one of them
Exactly right
2:47 When you played the whole tone scale descending I was suddenly like, 'Oh, that's Blade Runner!" Hah.
Ha! funny
C9+5+11 (a C altered dominant)
@@T._Matthew_Phillips it’s also that!
the top F# to the G, since it's one octave + 1/2 step means from F#....... (F#) G makes the interval from that top F# to the next G, is actually a b9 (Flat-9): so you have stacked bottom to top:
m7 m7 m7 b9 m7 .. so from what I see, the F# -> G (octave+1/2 step) is a 9th.. in this case a FLAT-9.. confirm..
I have it spelled C-Bb-Ab-Gb-E-D all m7s. Are you reading the E as a G, perhaps?
Awesome video!
Thanks!
Very good, thanks!!!
Thanks for watching!
Interesting... he used notes that are adjacent but spread them out over the octaves so the dissonance is less pronounced
It's a really interesting technique that has a way of diluting the effect of dissonance
You can hear nice chord sequences like that on the Solaris soundtrack by Cliff martinez, check out the track called Hi-energy proton accelerator.
And is there any chance you could analyse that track keith if you are reading this.
I'm sure one of the chords used is the exact same one used at the beginning of the close encounters of the third kind movie composed by John Williams.
Thank you.
That's a great suggestion - I'll definitely check out Solaris! Close Encounters is full of chord jems for sure.
@Keith_Horn thank you, it's a beautiful ambient soundtrack that complemented the slow pace of the movie perfectly, I liked it that much I went out and bought it on CD.
Anyway all the best with the channel, interesting stuff with the jerry Goldsmith Alien analysis, he was a true great composer. 👍
Super Metroid Music - Maridia (Sandy Desert)
Oh nice - I’ll give it a listen!
Awesome Video! Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
"AKSHULLY" That chord isn't at the beginning of the film, just the soundtrack. Ridley and Goldsmith historically butted heads quite a bit (See LEGEND) with Ridley asking for one thing but getting another. In the end I actually prefer Ridley's choices with the weird, creepy percussion noises during the title sequence.
@@LAZ-org Right! We don’t hear the chord until :90 into the main title. I prefer the Ridley Scott-approved version, too. I didn’t’ t know that about Legend - I have to give that film another watch.
Thats kind of fitting though for a movie about unknowable beasts though.
Totally
Film composer here, fascinating and learned something here thanks you!
Thanks for watching!
Cool, great overview.
Thank you!
a bit off topic but its quite fitting how Alien a film with themes about motherhood and the horror of sexuality has music from Frued.
That’s some next level meta analysis. Great observation!
Funny part is, the "Alien" chord is actually part of the reused music from "Freud". I guess our minds are the true outer space...
Wait - is it?! I have to hear it. Can you send a clip?
if i saw i chord like that in one of my jazz harmonie exam, i would write something like C9(b13#11) is it a good way to see it?
I think so! If it helps you conceive of the harmony and remembering it - go for it!
Just seeing the physical spread of those notes.. how would you play this? Even Rachmaninoff would have a tough time with stretches that big lol
HA! Impossible to play, right? I often include harmonic exercises in my videos but I didn't even try with this one.
I’m going to experiment with building modwave or multi/poly patches that implement this chord across oscillators. (@keithhorn, glad the algorithm threw this in front of me! Liked and subscribed!)
@@kcrosley That's a fun idea - I'd like to hear that! Thanks for watching!
4:50 Red Dwarf (in black and white). 🧐
Friday the 13ths music had that sound a lot too
Very cool video, earned a sub 💙💙
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.
Debut. See?
Clawed debut see
Why do I feel like similar chords are used in the Simpsons for tense moments lol
That's worth looking into!
If you HAD to give the chord a name I would suggest C9b5b13 - however, it is really a "Varese-type" chord based on stacked intervals (in this case, a m7th). One question: is the bass note a sloppy written C or a B? It looks like a B, which would place that whole structure over a bass note a semitone lower (in jazz lingo - a slash chord: C9b5b13/B !!!). I don't hear it in the recording and haven't checked the original score out yet, so maybe not. . . but if not - that would also be a neat creepy chord.
That label works! Thinking in those terms - resolving to an F minor sonority would be interesting. It's definitely a low C but if it was a B it would make for a nice E9 (b5)/B.
Great episode! Could the chord be C9#5add11 or C9#5add4…? It’s also possible, that my analysis is total gibberish. 😂
I could be thought of as a C9 #5 #11 I suppose.
Thanks for watching!!!!
This is an amazing video- can someone please tell me how to play this chord on the guitar please 🙏
Maybe a 7 string could pull it off with some RH fretting? You'd probably have to tune the 7th string to open C. Or let the bass player cover the bottom 2 or three notes? 22nd fret for the high D!
C7 (b5 9 b13)
That works!
This is fascinating, thank you. However.... 'DAY-byoo-see' ?? seriously?
Ha! In college I knew another student composer from France and he always insisted on pronouncing it that way and it got stuck in my head. Turns out he was in the minority of how it's pronounced. I'll work on it 😂
Great video !
Thanks!
I love that! It's very alien lol 🙃 it's like, maybe Xenomorphic music is built on 7ths instead of 3rds or 5ths! That's one of my favorite movies and I never really focused on the soundtrack like that. I think that shows how great he is that I just accepted it as part of the overall film!
Maybe! it's such a brilliant score and it flows seamlessly with the story. I think it's one of those scores that becomes a character on its own.
new subscriber from Australia 👍
Thanks and welcome!