You put out amazing content brother! I seriously love watching your videos and enriching my knowledge on the aviation industry. I always loved aircraft since I was a child! Keep up the amazing work brother❤️I’m pretty sure your channel will be a super hit (it already is though but I dream to see it bigger). Love from India!❤️❤️
I agree Aayan. I just remembered that when we lived in St. Louis in the early to mid 60's that my school took my class to the St. Louis Lambert Airport. I believe I was in the 1st or 2nd grade. We got to tour a TWA jet. I believe it was a Boeing 707 or a 727 & each one of us boys got to sit in the captain's seat for a bit. I think the girls got shown around by the stewardesses. I fell in love with aviation on that day!!!
I'm sad that the McDonnell Douglas MD-12 never got released. It would've been such a great plane. However, I'm also afraid that McDonnell Douglas would cut corners again...and set a new record for deadliest aviation accidents in history...if the plane was released.
I don't think McDonald Douglas cut corners. That was the Airlines doing the maintenance on the DC-10 that cut corners. The deadliest single airplane accident in the United States was caused by improper maintenance on behalf of American Airlines.
You should do a “What if McDonnell Douglas didn’t merge with Boeing” video. Potential Aircraft Lineup: MD-95neo MD-80neo MD-90neo MD-13 (an MD-11 Twin jet) MD-12
Douglas didn't merge with Boeing. Douglas was going out of business and Boeing bought it on a fire sale, mostly for the military side, not the commercial.
Is there any possibility of ever getting an A380 off the ground with 2 engines. Also I get bothered when the A380 is described as a failure. The technology that went into producing this aircraft must have had positive benefits for the industry.
Not if you want to continue the same payload and range of current A380. You could slap a GE90-115B on the bird but you'd be short by several thousands of thrust pounds.
Ecomomically. Yes, but so are buses good for the economy, doesn't make em advanced in the slightest manner. The only technology the west uses making these planes are UAW workers that also make cars.
Actually , it's possible . The likelihood , however , is small . GE tested-out the GE-9X at sustained thrust of 134k.lbs , in Nov. , 2017 . It is apparent that a purpose-built version could achieve the 160k.lbs takeoff-thrust , required for an A-380 twin-engine . Potential customers would have to believe that jumbo combi-freighters , for point-to-point transport , were the way to go . So , maybe . D.H.
Nobody says the A380 is a technological failure, it is still top of the art. It is an economic flop for the airlines who need to fill it over 95% each flight to be profitable and the surge of smaller but longer range crafts that goes point to point avoiding the huge pain-in-the-ass of mayor hubs.
Another outstanding video. MD12 twin was probably ahead of its time. Passengers were used to 4 or 3 engines back in the 90s and twins over the Atlantic were viewed with some suspicion still. By the same token there wasn't an engine with enough thrust at the time although GE90 and the Trent could have been developed further. But perhaps the biggest killer to the project was that McDonnell's financial position was weak. They only had the MD11 and the aging MD80 family to compete against Airbus and Boeing.
Making a mountain of an aircraft which was only a figment in a few overreaching people's imagination.The incredible success of the B-747 put paid to any thoughts of a rival considering that there was no other manufacturer who had the expertise as well as the wherewithal to develop an aircraft of this size .By the time the competing aircraft appeared on the horizon ( A380 ) the aviation scenario had changed ; the rationale was smaller and nimbler aircrafts with only two engines . An aircraft with 4 engines was dead on arrival .
The failure of the A380 is two parts 1) It was too big for gates at many airports 2) They designed it as a passenger plane as opposed to the 747 which had always intended to have a freight version. An MD-12 freighter might have been very successful.
stephen v Not sure as the problem would be to load the upper deck which was the issue for the A380 cargo version as well as a structure limit load wise. The 747 upper deck is for a few pax, crew change or family ! They are only using the bottom floor for the load...they would definitely have made a cargo if it was possible as you make more money with this rather than commercial pax flights...same for the 747 !😉
Kenetic Kups well yes why not as The Boeing 747-8F is not using the upper deck for cargo in fact. At a certain extent maybe they could use the A380 as a Combi upper floor for pax and lower floor for cargo but that implies an investment to modify and certify the lower flooring for cargo so the question is...is it worth it !? They probably already thought about it and deemed it too expensive without guarantees to sell the modification...maybe ! 😉 Well just read an article that came out today on aero time that confirms what I thought, the A380 cargo never left the design sheet as per studies it was 22% more expensive to run it vs the 747-8F so jot viable and I also read that Boeing will cease the production of the queen of the sky in 2023 their last order was 10 months ago and they only have 19 units left to build. 4 Engines is no longer of a productive business interest !🤷🏼♂️
@@skytrotter6144 there is now a cargo conversion available for A380s, not from Airbus, but from Lufthansa Cargo, for existing 380s which are not longer used for passengers.
I would give this video Best Award for Investigative Journalism!!! Never heard anything detailed about this particular aircraft until now!Double thumbs up to you DJ. Keep making these videos
One thing a lot of people missed on MD12 is the landscape of the aviation market in the late 90s. Almost all airlines then were using hub-and-spoke system instead of the current point-to-point route system. At the same time, slots back then are not as easy and abundant to obtain as nowadays. This means that airlines could possibly have several major hubs with high volume of traffic capable of filling up MD12.
I love the topic, but my comment might be a bit out of the topic. I love the livery of Garuda Indonesia at the end of the video. I think the colour is so fresh, energetic and cool.
I'm sure former McDonnell Douglas executives have been saying a lot of "what ifs" over the years. What if we'd gone ahead with the DC-10 Twin? There would be no A300 and no Airbus. What if we'd not persisted with the DC-9/MD-80/MD-90 for so long or offered a proper full range of capacities and ranges as with the DC-9? What if we'd not tried to skimp on development costs in the transition from DC-10 to MD-11 and given it a proper wing? What if we hadn't used the Stonecipher/McDonnell method of "low-production-high margin" sales effort instead of allowing the 777 and A330 to become commodities? "What if" is asked by those who don't, "what next" is asked by those who do
I was working at Douglas on a internship there in the early 90s. The MD11 stretch was also going to have a lower class configuration. Seats mounted in the belly mainly the front part to the wings. We heard talk of the MD12 and i saw the designs of the 2 engine configuration. Unfortunately it never materialized into nothing I never seen or heard of a mock up of the MD12. Douglas stayed focused on the C17 and the MD 90 then eventually the MD 95 which was renamed the 717 after the Boeing merger.
I do wish you had left the images of the MD-12 and other aircraft up longer so I could have a good look. I like longer videos if they have solid information. Personally, I watch your videos less for the footage and more for the info on the aircraft and how they're used. Keep up the great work!
The McDonnell-Douglas Corporation was merged from Boeing Commercial Airplanes, for example: McDonnell-Douglas MD-82 aircraft goes to Boeing MD-82 aircraft.
I think it might've sold some airframes but not a lot, I also don't think it'd it'd be finished in five years, Airbus was studying the A380 since 1988 and by the time the MD-12 was released 9/11 would've probably happened which would've sealed it's fate. Taking into account as well when Boeing took over MD they might've discontinued the MD-12 because it'd be eating the sales of the 747-400. Awesome vid m8! We're barging towards 150K.
the pain of these "ultra-capacity" jets is the time it takes to board/unboard passengers. would take like 2 hours! that increases turn-around time and pisses off the passengers!
I am more interested if you would cover what if the MD-11 was a twinjet. Back then, the MD-11 had several advantages over the 777-200 and A340-200. But that advantage was short-lived. When the -200ER was released, the MD-11 lost its range advantage over the 777. I wonder what could have happened if the MD-11 was a twinjet.
Really great vid DJ, I really wonder how would industry look like if MD-12 was released, could it have done this or that. Your content always gets me to think, it amazes me. I'm glad that I subscribed, long time ago when this was a small channel with 20k subs. But with you hard work and determination DJ, channel is soon going to hit 125k. This channel, DJ's Aviation and it's creator Dj are people starting content creators should take inspiration. As a summary I have to say that this is one of best channels on yt, END, 🎆🎉🎊.
Well, it might be either a serious competitor on the B747 or will just have a same faith as the A380 depending on the time it released If the MD-12 released between the 1970s to 1990s, it might be bit profitable but if this aircraft released in 2000 beyond, it will be just have the same faith as the A380
I'll repost my original thoughts: The MD-11 was NOT a succesful passenger aircraft. It was a good uprtade of the DC-10 but failed to meet range/fuel burn promises. AA couldn't do DFW-HKG with it as it had intended. part of the reason is that in upgrading the DC-10 into MD-11, MD was short on cash and didn't spend enough. And the market for DC-10 class airctaft was being eaten by the A330 and A340s. An MD-12 was a paper-napkin project that was not taken seriously because if MD had problems funding the MD-11, it would be in a worse situation for the MD-12. And at the time, the industry would have known that MC was already looking for a buyer. The MD-12 was likely just a ploy to show the potential buyer that MD had capable engineers with good idea and it was worth buying the company. When you consider how long it took Airbus to do R&D to find a way to make the A380 work on paper, it is not realitic to think that MD could have done its MD-12 in less time and deliver before. The A380 is already marginal in terms of price/performance, and a "quick and dirty" MD-12 production would not likely have had the performance needed to make it financially attractive (and that is assuming it didn't punch through taxiways and runways because of improper work on landing gear - a challenge Airbus took years to figure out). Had the MD-11 been a resounding success, the story might be different because McDonnel Douglas would have had the resources to focus on a long term R&D for the MD-12. But as it stands, it was Airbus who ate MD's market share and ended up with the resources (barely) to develop the A380 with lots of government incentives that are not common in USA. Sorry, but the MD-12 was a project at the paper napkin level. McD put money in revamping ist DC-9 with the MD-95 where it did a good job, but was too little, too late.
AAL's MD11s were supposed to fly from San Jose to Tokyo, but the plane couldn't make it fully loaded. The plane was too draggy and the Pratt Engines didn't have the power or fuel burn to meet performance guarantees. The design changes to meet specs were too hard/pricey/time consuming to accomplish, and the rest is history. Douglas would have gone out of business earlier if it weren't for the C-17, a pork-barrel project if there ever was one.
Just a correction there. The HC high capacity was to seat 511 passengers in 1 class configuration. The LR, Long range was to seat 430 passengers in 3 classes. Also as for the MD11 unfortunately that wasn't a successful aircraft. It was simply a stretched upgraded DC10, might as well have been designated DC10-50.
Thank you for talking about McDonnell-Douglas, a great airline company that was caught in the squeeze. Boeing “merged” with them and took the MD-95 and renamed it the Boeing 717. The design is wildly successful as a regional jet, so much so that there is a market for buying and repurposing 717s.
What about why Boeing added the hump on the 747, just in case they were wrong about jets going super sonic, Concorde, so that they could still sell it as a cargo carrier. Turns out they were right, but that's why the 747 has the hump. New to your channel. Great video.
McDonnell Douglas would not have been able to build the MD-12. The company was having financial problems in the 1990s. There were signs of it in the MD-11. And in my opinion, a more meme-worthy aircraft proposal is the Sukhoi KR-860. And the 747 could easily fall back on the freighter design for success if the passenger market is not doing so well. The other double-deck designs could not.
I personaly don t like 2 engine aircraft . I believe 3 or 4 engines are safer when going long distance. I don t care how big an engine is today its just a better feeling with more engines if you loose one .
If Boeing wants to stick with the “700 themed” naming scheme, and if Boeing wants to not have the NMA be called the 797, I think the proposed Boeing Y3 EcoLiner as visualized at 3:50sec. could be appropriately renamed to the Boeing 797 EcoLiner! Thoughts on that idea?
Very interesting video Dj. But there was this elephant in the room that would never let the MD12 see the light of day being that Boeing is the new parent company of Mc Donnell Douglas. Mc Donnell Douglas (MD) has been left to create aircraft for the U.S. Navy but unless there is a big stock buy back of Boeing Stock that would force them to sell the MD division, you will never see a new commercial MD passenger aircraft. The only other shot of a MD passenger aircraft might have been possible, if the Boeing/Embarra deal would had fell through. I think Boeing then would of had MD's engineers focus designing aircraft to compete in the regional jet plane market.
Such a coherent and understandable content AGAIN! For me, McDonnell Douglas was a falling bird at the time and airlines was really eyeing Boeing and the rising star-Airbus.
The twin double decker is very intriguing. If possible it would potentially take the advantages of a twin and double decker together and conceptually be the best in all economical ways. ETOPS is soon becoming a thing of the past, it's hard for me to imagine a future in aviation with quads. Remember the single most expensive part on any airliner are their engines (commercial aviation at least). The reliability of the turbine has been increased exponentially thus eliminating the need for 4 engine aircraft re A380 (RIP)
MD12 goes to show that McDonnell Douglas was ahead of its time if it was released in the 1990's it would have been a hit. However, now that airlines want two engine aircraft it's time has come and gone just as we have seen with the A380.
The b747 was Boeing’s entry for the c5a project. In fact the mock up sits in ft Lewis, wa as a training device. Boeing went ahead with its civil b747. Still alive today
Now, dedicated freighters and combi freighter passenger jets are needed. Most freighters are old passenger jets converted to freighters. Having new production aircraft for freight only has it's advantages.......
Two engines cost half the maintenance of four, With thrusts in the order of 130,000lbs, Does a bigger turbo fan engine offer better efficiency ( specific fuel consumption.)..? A twin double decker possible, But point to point has dominated over hub to hub. So the demand is not there.
What I find interesting is how the "Ecoliner" made by Boeing would've become a thing after the 747 is officially gone if Airbus would've been too happy with it. Not only that but the A380 age is almost over and therefore, sadly, that moment for Boeing to beat over Airbus would be up.
Fascinating analysis, but I must disagree with Dj to a degree, and for my discussion, please completely disregard the contemporary popularity of the A380. The MD-12 was a fun project to consider and toss out to see if it could get any bites, but even if it was built, it would have been a complete financial disaster for McDonald Douglas. Long before the MD-12, all serious carriers who made profits off of the 747 were firmly established. No one sought greater capacity aircraft any longer. Airlines were now looking for a less expensive means to fly passengers across the oceans. The tri-jets were being phased out due to the 767, 330, and 777. No matter how opulent the offered amenities and settings, passengers were more interested in the least expensive price, and that is what propelled the twin engine, wide bodied aircraft into popularity among the carriers. Hence, despite its advantages, any variant of the MD-12 would never gain more interest than thumbing through a brochure. Hence, the MD-12 was a fun idea, but could never become a reality at its time of proposal. Possibly, if the MD-12 appeared before or at the same time as the 747, it might have had a chance.
There is no doubt that first the Boeing 747, after the Airbus A380, had to be deprogrammed to lead the commercial aircraft market. In any case, the weight-to-takeoff equation remains a great prolema to improve. heavy and lumpy they turn it into imnviables. The development of new composite materials is a step to improve the mechanics, but I believe there are other variables to convert the operations
It wasn't ever supposed to be a Trijet, that was the MD-XX project with several variants. It wasn't that customers weren't interested, but more a matter of guarantees -- especially with the well documented shortfalls of the MD-11. So, even if we made those guarantees, we had little confidence in the engine manufacturers around that time and refused to lighten the structure to make up for it like Airbus was in the practice of doing. I have the top drawings of the initial and final rev of the MD-12 among other documents. The timing of this is also odd since all are getting out of the double deck HC business. Last 747 is upon us and you know the A380 is stopping as well.
Considering Airbus have announced today they are stopping production of their A380, clearly there is no market for such aircraft. Passengers today want to fly from their regional airports avoiding the major airport hubs. This is why Boeings Dreamliner as an example has been a huge success where as the A380 has never made a profit.
I'm not sure how you can refer to the MD-11 as a success....it was a warmed over DC-10 that couldn't meet its promised range, had a dismal safety record and generally did not perform as well as previous commercial aircraft produced by Douglas and McDonnell Douglas.
You put out amazing content brother! I seriously love watching your videos and enriching my knowledge on the aviation industry. I always loved aircraft since I was a child! Keep up the amazing work brother❤️I’m pretty sure your channel will be a super hit (it already is though but I dream to see it bigger). Love from India!❤️❤️
Thanks so much Aaryan! Hope you're well over there in India!
Aaryan Dabra i Love IndiGo
BOAC
I agree Aayan. I just remembered that when we lived in St. Louis in the early to mid 60's that my school took my class to the St. Louis Lambert Airport. I believe I was in the 1st or 2nd grade. We got to tour a TWA jet. I believe it was a Boeing 707 or a 727 & each one of us boys got to sit in the captain's seat for a bit. I think the girls got shown around by the stewardesses. I fell in love with aviation on that day!!!
Aaryan Dabra I agree DJ does read somebody else’s ex’s release real nice!
I'm sad that the McDonnell Douglas MD-12 never got released. It would've been such a great plane.
However, I'm also afraid that McDonnell Douglas would cut corners again...and set a new record for deadliest aviation accidents in history...if the plane was released.
I don't think McDonald Douglas cut corners. That was the Airlines doing the maintenance on the DC-10 that cut corners. The deadliest single airplane accident in the United States was caused by improper maintenance on behalf of American Airlines.
Exactly my thoughts.
You should do a “What if McDonnell Douglas didn’t merge with Boeing” video.
Potential Aircraft Lineup:
MD-95neo
MD-80neo
MD-90neo
MD-13 (an MD-11 Twin jet)
MD-12
Garrett Green I wish they never did, I'd love to seen competition in the airliner market.
Reminds me of the time Boeing had to share the market with McDonnell Douglas, Lockheed, and Convair
@@joshuajoe1419 Wait, convair? didn't they collapsed after the failure of CV-880?
MDC-3 Neo Regional :)
Douglas didn't merge with Boeing. Douglas was going out of business and Boeing bought it on a fire sale, mostly for the military side, not the commercial.
Is there any possibility of ever getting an A380 off the ground with 2 engines. Also I get bothered when the A380 is described as a failure. The technology that went into producing this aircraft must have had positive benefits for the industry.
Not if you want to continue the same payload and range of current A380. You could slap a GE90-115B on the bird but you'd be short by several thousands of thrust pounds.
Ecomomically. Yes, but so are buses good for the economy, doesn't make em advanced in the slightest manner. The only technology the west uses making these planes are UAW workers that also make cars.
Actually , it's possible . The likelihood , however , is small . GE tested-out the GE-9X at sustained thrust of 134k.lbs , in Nov. , 2017 . It is apparent that a purpose-built version could achieve the 160k.lbs takeoff-thrust , required for an A-380 twin-engine . Potential customers would have to believe that jumbo combi-freighters , for point-to-point transport , were the way to go . So , maybe .
D.H.
Nobody says the A380 is a technological failure, it is still top of the art. It is an economic flop for the airlines who need to fill it over 95% each flight to be profitable and the surge of smaller but longer range crafts that goes point to point avoiding the huge pain-in-the-ass of mayor hubs.
Thanks to everyone for all the replies I received
The last landing in this video (Garuda Indonesia A330) was so satisfying to watch. Smooth as hell.
As Great as those Aircraft would be, The 747 will Always be the Queen of The Sky
Titanus Rodan A380 is the empress then
The Airbus A380 is the (temporary) "king of the sky".
A380= king of the skies
Boeing 747= queen of the skies
queen of the sky will be A350 and king is 777
@Meme Man laugh in only one built
Another outstanding video.
MD12 twin was probably ahead of its time. Passengers were used to 4 or 3 engines back in the 90s and twins over the Atlantic were viewed with some suspicion still. By the same token there wasn't an engine with enough thrust at the time although GE90 and the Trent could have been developed further.
But perhaps the biggest killer to the project was that McDonnell's financial position was weak. They only had the MD11 and the aging MD80 family to compete against Airbus and Boeing.
*MD-12*
News reporters: Is this an A380?
10:46 oh wow that was an amazing touchdown, barely any smoke!
If the MD-12 was released, that would be amazing.
Thank you for the video!
DJ we love your videos, the longer the better!
Making a mountain of an aircraft which was only a figment in a few overreaching people's imagination.The incredible success of the B-747 put paid to any thoughts of a rival considering that there was no other manufacturer who had the expertise as well as the wherewithal to develop an aircraft of this size .By the time the competing aircraft appeared on the horizon ( A380 ) the aviation scenario had changed ; the rationale was smaller and nimbler aircrafts with only two engines . An aircraft with 4 engines was dead on arrival .
Even if the md12 had been successfully designed and introduced into service, it would have just suffered the same fate as the A380 is suffering today.
The failure of the A380 is two parts 1) It was too big for gates at many airports 2) They designed it as a passenger plane as opposed to the 747 which had always intended to have a freight version. An MD-12 freighter might have been very successful.
stephen v Not sure as the problem
would be to load the upper deck which was the issue for the A380 cargo version as well as a structure limit load wise. The 747 upper deck is for a few pax, crew change or family ! They are only using the bottom floor for the load...they would definitely have made a cargo if it was possible as you make more money with this rather than commercial pax flights...same for the 747 !😉
Skytrotter Couldn't you have oversized cargo if you can't use thr upper level?
Kenetic Kups well yes why not as The Boeing 747-8F is not using the upper deck for cargo in fact. At a certain extent maybe they could use the A380 as a Combi upper floor for pax and lower floor for cargo but that implies an investment to modify and certify the lower flooring for cargo so the question is...is it worth it !? They probably already thought about it and deemed it too expensive without guarantees to sell the modification...maybe ! 😉
Well just read an article that came out today on aero time that confirms what I thought, the A380 cargo never left the design sheet as per studies it was 22% more expensive to run it vs the 747-8F so jot viable and I also read that Boeing will cease the production of the queen of the sky in 2023 their last order was 10 months ago and they only have 19 units left to build. 4 Engines is no longer of a productive business interest !🤷🏼♂️
@@skytrotter6144 there is now a cargo conversion available for A380s, not from Airbus, but from Lufthansa Cargo, for existing 380s which are not longer used for passengers.
I would give this video Best Award for Investigative Journalism!!!
Never heard anything detailed about this particular aircraft until now!Double thumbs up to you DJ. Keep making these videos
One thing a lot of people missed on MD12 is the landscape of the aviation market in the late 90s. Almost all airlines then were using hub-and-spoke system instead of the current point-to-point route system. At the same time, slots back then are not as easy and abundant to obtain as nowadays. This means that airlines could possibly have several major hubs with high volume of traffic capable of filling up MD12.
Yeah I remember this in cargo school our lecture spoke alot about the MD wondered why it stopped production...thanks for the insight.
Loved the video. Long videos are definitely ok. Great job!
Dude I love your videos. I'm glad you revisted the topic of the MD-12. Would've been cool to see it fly!
Great video! I really enjoy all of your videos and it’s something that drives my passion of Aviation! Again great content!
I love the topic, but my comment might be a bit out of the topic. I love the livery of Garuda Indonesia at the end of the video. I think the colour is so fresh, energetic and cool.
My first video I watched of your channel loved it subbed!
I'm sure former McDonnell Douglas executives have been saying a lot of "what ifs" over the years. What if we'd gone ahead with the DC-10 Twin? There would be no A300 and no Airbus. What if we'd not persisted with the DC-9/MD-80/MD-90 for so long or offered a proper full range of capacities and ranges as with the DC-9? What if we'd not tried to skimp on development costs in the transition from DC-10 to MD-11 and given it a proper wing? What if we hadn't used the Stonecipher/McDonnell method of "low-production-high margin" sales effort instead of allowing the 777 and A330 to become commodities? "What if" is asked by those who don't, "what next" is asked by those who do
I was working at Douglas on a internship there in the early 90s. The MD11 stretch was also going to have a lower class configuration. Seats mounted in the belly mainly the front part to the wings. We heard talk of the MD12 and i saw the designs of the 2 engine configuration. Unfortunately it never materialized into nothing I never seen or heard of a mock up of the MD12. Douglas stayed focused on the C17 and the MD 90 then eventually the MD 95 which was renamed the 717 after the Boeing merger.
Great job as always DJ
hey DJ.. I actually did grab a popcorn
Legend! What type?
@@DjsAviation caramel... you want some? 😂😂
Great profile picture lmao
What Airport/Channel was the background footage filmed?
Those renderings have a real nineties feel to them
Dj, you da man. I love all thing aviation, especially commercial. Your knowledge is awesome!!!!
I do wish you had left the images of the MD-12 and other aircraft up longer so I could have a good look. I like longer videos if they have solid information. Personally, I watch your videos less for the footage and more for the info on the aircraft and how they're used. Keep up the great work!
Excellent video! Keep up the great work
I never knew about the MD-12 until this video. And I'm an aviation enthusiast. WHAT ELSE DON'T I KNOW?!
The McDonnell-Douglas Corporation was merged from Boeing Commercial Airplanes, for example: McDonnell-Douglas MD-82 aircraft goes to Boeing MD-82 aircraft.
Great video, I learned a bundle.
What is wrong with the DC 10 all it needs is some duck tape over the cargo door
I think it might've sold some airframes but not a lot, I also don't think it'd it'd be finished in five years, Airbus was studying the A380 since 1988 and by the time the MD-12 was released 9/11 would've probably happened which would've sealed it's fate. Taking into account as well when Boeing took over MD they might've discontinued the MD-12 because it'd be eating the sales of the 747-400. Awesome vid m8! We're barging towards 150K.
The Garuda A330 at the end really buttered the landing
the pain of these "ultra-capacity" jets is the time it takes to board/unboard passengers. would take like 2 hours! that increases turn-around time and pisses off the passengers!
Just subbed and I love your videos bro. Keep it going!
I am more interested if you would cover what if the MD-11 was a twinjet. Back then, the MD-11 had several advantages over the 777-200 and A340-200. But that advantage was short-lived. When the -200ER was released, the MD-11 lost its range advantage over the 777. I wonder what could have happened if the MD-11 was a twinjet.
Really great vid DJ, I really wonder how would industry look like if MD-12 was released, could it have done this or that. Your content always gets me to think, it amazes me. I'm glad that I subscribed, long time ago when this was a small channel with 20k subs. But with you hard work and determination DJ, channel is soon going to hit 125k. This channel, DJ's Aviation and it's creator Dj are people starting content creators should take inspiration. As a summary I have to say that this is one of best channels on yt, END, 🎆🎉🎊.
Only ever got a chance to sit in a mad dog once. Tri jets look so cool
Well, it might be either a serious competitor on the B747 or will just have a same faith as the A380 depending on the time it released
If the MD-12 released between the 1970s to 1990s, it might be bit profitable but if this aircraft released in 2000 beyond, it will be just have the same faith as the A380
I'll repost my original thoughts:
The MD-11 was NOT a succesful passenger aircraft. It was a good uprtade of the DC-10 but failed to meet range/fuel burn promises. AA couldn't do DFW-HKG with it as it had intended.
part of the reason is that in upgrading the DC-10 into MD-11, MD was short on cash and didn't spend enough. And the market for DC-10 class airctaft was being eaten by the A330 and A340s.
An MD-12 was a paper-napkin project that was not taken seriously because if MD had problems funding the MD-11, it would be in a worse situation for the MD-12. And at the time, the industry would have known that MC was already looking for a buyer.
The MD-12 was likely just a ploy to show the potential buyer that MD had capable engineers with good idea and it was worth buying the company.
When you consider how long it took Airbus to do R&D to find a way to make the A380 work on paper, it is not realitic to think that MD could have done its MD-12 in less time and deliver before.
The A380 is already marginal in terms of price/performance, and a "quick and dirty" MD-12 production would not likely have had the performance needed to make it financially attractive (and that is assuming it didn't punch through taxiways and runways because of improper work on landing gear - a challenge Airbus took years to figure out).
Had the MD-11 been a resounding success, the story might be different because McDonnel Douglas would have had the resources to focus on a long term R&D for the MD-12. But as it stands, it was Airbus who ate MD's market share and ended up with the resources (barely) to develop the A380 with lots of government incentives that are not common in USA.
Sorry, but the MD-12 was a project at the paper napkin level. McD put money in revamping ist DC-9 with the MD-95 where it did a good job, but was too little, too late.
Perfect point of view
AAL's MD11s were supposed to fly from San Jose to Tokyo, but the plane couldn't make it fully loaded. The plane was too draggy and the Pratt Engines didn't have the power or fuel burn to meet performance guarantees. The design changes to meet specs were too hard/pricey/time consuming to accomplish, and the rest is history. Douglas would have gone out of business earlier if it weren't for the C-17, a pork-barrel project if there ever was one.
Just a correction there. The HC high capacity was to seat 511 passengers in 1 class configuration. The LR, Long range was to seat 430 passengers in 3 classes. Also as for the MD11 unfortunately that wasn't a successful aircraft. It was simply a stretched upgraded DC10, might as well have been designated DC10-50.
Doesn’t Orbit eye hospital already use a md12?
*_If the MD-12 came out...More aviation memz from Bellcc
Lol 😂
yep
YOS
Joss boskuu
It would be this meme. Hey can I copy ur homework? Ye but change a little so it doesnt look like u copied me . Homework: MD12 AND A380
Thank you for talking about McDonnell-Douglas, a great airline company that was caught in the squeeze. Boeing “merged” with them and took the MD-95 and renamed it the Boeing 717. The design is wildly successful as a regional jet, so much so that there is a market for buying and repurposing 717s.
Give it 3 engines and make it an all coach airplane. Fuel efficient and fits a lot of people. Also make the rows 4 4 4
That will need like 3 GE90-115Bs and a lot of ground clearance.
Legally you can't be more than 3 seats from the aisle thus the largest configuration would be 3-5-3
Nice work
One thing I'm really curious about is: Would 'twin' version of DC-10 or MD-11 have changed their fortune?
Euroduplex that’s essentially the Boeing 777
What about why Boeing added the hump on the 747, just in case they were wrong about jets going super sonic, Concorde, so that they could still sell it as a cargo carrier.
Turns out they were right, but that's why the 747 has the hump.
New to your channel. Great video.
"they could have had first class suites"
proceeds to show Emirates 777 first class suites
but anyways great video (as always)
keep it up bro, i want to learn more about these!!!
I'm curious about if we could get tri-deck aircraft. For the purpose of transporting people in large amounts on large busy routes.
Nice looking plane
McDonnell Douglas would not have been able to build the MD-12. The company was having financial problems in the 1990s. There were signs of it in the MD-11. And in my opinion, a more meme-worthy aircraft proposal is the Sukhoi KR-860. And the 747 could easily fall back on the freighter design for success if the passenger market is not doing so well. The other double-deck designs could not.
Good one and I passed on the popcorn.....
I personaly don t like 2 engine aircraft . I believe 3 or 4 engines are safer when going long distance. I don t care how big an engine is today its just a better feeling with more engines if you loose one .
👌 two machines make all passenger like prays
I have Flown MD 11 . I Love to try it .
If Boeing wants to stick with the “700 themed” naming scheme, and if Boeing wants to not have the NMA be called the 797, I think the proposed Boeing Y3 EcoLiner as visualized at 3:50sec. could be appropriately renamed to the Boeing 797 EcoLiner! Thoughts on that idea?
Amazing video ;)
This could've been the new Air Force One if it was eventually released...
Very interesting video Dj. But there was this elephant in the room that would never let the MD12 see the light of day being that Boeing is the new parent company of Mc Donnell Douglas.
Mc Donnell Douglas (MD) has been left to create aircraft for the U.S. Navy but unless there is a big stock buy back of Boeing Stock that would force them to sell the MD division, you will never see a new commercial MD passenger aircraft.
The only other shot of a MD passenger aircraft might have been possible, if the Boeing/Embarra deal would had fell through. I think Boeing then would of had MD's engineers focus designing aircraft to compete in the regional jet plane market.
How's about an analysis comparing the Boeing NLA , and the Boeing 747-1000 ?
D.H.
The aircraft of the MD12 sound really good & the industry needed another aeroplane to compete with Boeing & Airbus.
Such a coherent and understandable content AGAIN!
For me, McDonnell Douglas was a falling bird at the time and airlines was really eyeing Boeing and the rising star-Airbus.
You should've collaborated with mustard for some 3d renders
Yad .A factual this should happen
The twin double decker is very intriguing. If possible it would potentially take the advantages of a twin and double decker together and conceptually be the best in all economical ways. ETOPS is soon becoming a thing of the past, it's hard for me to imagine a future in aviation with quads. Remember the single most expensive part on any airliner are their engines (commercial aviation at least). The reliability of the turbine has been increased exponentially thus eliminating the need for 4 engine aircraft re A380 (RIP)
Damn this would be a great challenger for the A380
It was released in 1986. I had two. One for my FE2 and another for the greatest film camera ever, the FM2
Can you talk about the joint venture between Boeing and Embraer ?
I like your vids and this bid is better than your normal vids coz its long ;)
MD12 goes to show that McDonnell Douglas was ahead of its time if it was released in the 1990's it would have been a hit. However, now that airlines want two engine aircraft it's time has come and gone just as we have seen with the A380.
But i mean why they dont want four engines aircraft?
I would love to see a jumbo tri jet!
Love your vids
Airbus wouldnt care. Its because they dont have much orders for a380
The b747 was Boeing’s entry for the c5a project. In fact the mock up sits in ft Lewis, wa as a training device. Boeing went ahead with its civil b747. Still alive today
That Taiwan company is Eva Green ( owner of Eva Airways)
What about the sonic cruiser?
i did enjoyed it thanks
Hi DJ! Can you do something on the Lockheed L-1011 Tristar? It was a very interesting trijet aircraft and the sole jetliner made by Lockheed Martin. 😀
The Electra! THE ELECTRA!!
Though both the MD12 and A380 would look better if the cockpit was placed above.
Oh hell no.
Nah it would look ugly
Now, dedicated freighters and combi freighter passenger jets are needed. Most freighters are old passenger jets converted to freighters. Having new production aircraft for freight only has it's advantages.......
The MD11 is a challenge to land and runs out of trim quickly. A new plane would need to address these shortcomings and many more...
Two engines cost half the maintenance of four, With thrusts in the order of 130,000lbs, Does a bigger turbo fan engine offer better efficiency ( specific fuel consumption.)..? A twin double decker possible, But point to point has dominated over hub to hub. So the demand is not there.
The MD-12 nearly looks a like an Airbus A380
What I find interesting is how the "Ecoliner" made by Boeing would've become a thing after the 747 is officially gone if Airbus would've been too happy with it. Not only that but the A380 age is almost over and therefore, sadly, that moment for Boeing to beat over Airbus would be up.
I love the Electra.
Especially if it had wings.
Really informative vedio reg Aviation industry....
Fascinating analysis, but I must disagree with Dj to a degree, and for my discussion, please completely disregard the contemporary popularity of the A380. The MD-12 was a fun project to consider and toss out to see if it could get any bites, but even if it was built, it would have been a complete financial disaster for McDonald Douglas.
Long before the MD-12, all serious carriers who made profits off of the 747 were firmly established. No one sought greater capacity aircraft any longer. Airlines were now looking for a less expensive means to fly passengers across the oceans. The tri-jets were being phased out due to the 767, 330, and 777. No matter how opulent the offered amenities and settings, passengers were more interested in the least expensive price, and that is what propelled the twin engine, wide bodied aircraft into popularity among the carriers. Hence, despite its advantages, any variant of the MD-12 would never gain more interest than thumbing through a brochure. Hence, the MD-12 was a fun idea, but could never become a reality at its time of proposal.
Possibly, if the MD-12 appeared before or at the same time as the 747, it might have had a chance.
There is no doubt that first the Boeing 747, after the Airbus A380, had to be deprogrammed to lead the commercial aircraft market. In any case, the weight-to-takeoff equation remains a great prolema to improve. heavy and lumpy they turn it into imnviables. The development of new composite materials is a step to improve the mechanics, but I believe there are other variables to convert the operations
It wasn't ever supposed to be a Trijet, that was the MD-XX project with several variants. It wasn't that customers weren't interested, but more a matter of guarantees -- especially with the well documented shortfalls of the MD-11. So, even if we made those guarantees, we had little confidence in the engine manufacturers around that time and refused to lighten the structure to make up for it like Airbus was in the practice of doing. I have the top drawings of the initial and final rev of the MD-12 among other documents. The timing of this is also odd since all are getting out of the double deck HC business. Last 747 is upon us and you know the A380 is stopping as well.
Considering Airbus have announced today they are stopping production of their A380, clearly there is no market for such aircraft. Passengers today want to fly from their regional airports avoiding the major airport hubs. This is why Boeings Dreamliner as an example has been a huge success where as the A380 has never made a profit.
Rip McDonnell Douglas I miss the company
Sounds like Airbus took the idea and made it reality 🤷🏽♂️
any up dates porshe, and boeing
What if the McDonnell Douglas HSCT Released?
I'm not sure how you can refer to the MD-11 as a success....it was a warmed over DC-10 that couldn't meet its promised range, had a dismal safety record and generally did not perform as well as previous commercial aircraft produced by Douglas and McDonnell Douglas.
Md is like your weaponedefense system???