String Action: How Low Can You Go?
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2021
- In this episode, I discuss the settings for the string action on electric guitars. Included in this discussion are the settings viewers left in the comments for this video: • The LMI Digital String...
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VERY helpful, thanks for collecting the data from the previous video, analyzing and sharing again.
These days I just stick to the 2mm bass 1.75-1.9mm treb. Measured at the 12th fret.
I spent years obsessing over action and neck relief. Now I've gotten use to a more "factory" setup.
Less paralysis by analysis.
I envy you! The guys that can handle high actual have crystal clear tone and endless sustain
Hey Chris interesting video and I really liked the parts where you explained what you need to take into account as a Guitar Builder.
Especially the part about how our Guitars react to the environment they are in and changes will occur after a couple of weeks in the new place.This means the Guitar will need some adjustments after that has happened.
For me it's different and I soon learned that it's worth finding out how to do my own setups (Jazzmaster and Jaguar).
I started using factory Strat string action specs but found reading the gauge a bit tricky and they felt just a little high, so I started doing this.
After I did nut, relief, and shims on the Offsets etc, I went to setting my string height by lowering the strings until they buzzed, then raising them until they had enough clearance no matter what I played.
Works for me
Thanks again
Pete
Isn't it about time we all just go to the metric system?
Thanks for getting specific.
Crank it down until it buzzes, then raise it until it does not... usually about 1.25 for me, unless it needs to go higher.
4/64th is 1.6mm and 3/64 is 1.3. That is super low actually. I had it that way for the first year and the better I got the more I noticed that I can't play with an action that low. It buzzes a lot and I find that I have zero control. I like it at about 2mm for the low E and 1.5mm for the high E and sometimes even way higher depending on the guitar.
best video about string height. Really appreciate that you share the real-world experience with us instead of just quoting fender manual.
Hi Chris and again: your videos are about the most usefull for me as a hobby luthier!!! One thing i'd like to know is: How much time do you wait when you are about to finalize a guitar and let it under string tension before making a final setup (string action, correcting fret buzz etc...). I'm about to achieve a strat style guitar, I've put it under string tension 3 days ago, straightened the neck, made a quick setup and I don't know if I can, right now, do some spot levelling for corecting fret buzz or if I have to wait a bit... Thank you so much for your wonderful work!
Great video. And advice. For years I’ve always been struggling with what action would I like. And found myself chasing numbers but never happy. I either find the guitar isn’t sounding right, or maybe I can go lower which buzzes, and find it’s to high not feeling right etc… I find if my guitar works at 4/64’s across the from the treble and bass side. It feels comfortable. Otherwise 5/64’s is ok to. But 4/64’s does feel bit nicer. But as you said in the video. Depends on your style of playing and gauge.
Ooooooh that purple with blackburst guitar looks so nice! I know a guy who's going to be very happy to see that.
I think so too!
Thanks for a very interesting clip.
I just wish the industry, teachers, luthiers, and players would pick a measurement unit and stick to it for action and strings. Millimeters, hundredths and thousands of millimeters, fractional inches, decimal inches, conversion tables and charts, etc. How about just one language? I pick millimeters and remove inches entirely from the vocabulary.
Jimmy Carter tried to get the U.S. to switch over to metric 46 years ago. He failed.
@@HighlineGuitars Just curious, do you use Imperial or Metric for your CNC guitar 3D models?
Old man yells at cloud
lol, you could always better yourself and work on your conversion weaknesses
I take it you have mm measurements for string gauge? 😂
I measure action at the 17th fret (without a capo on the 1st) & I have .060/.040 action with .004 to .006 relief dialed in the neck on all my Gibson's (LPs & SGs) I use 10-46 gauge strings, top wrapped. They never buzz, fret out or go out of tune. I only experienced tuning & intonation problems when my Gibson's had higher action & more relief in their necks (5/64 - 4/64 with .012 relief) I've found that Gibson's suit having straighter necks & lower action than any other brand of guitar.
A good luthier refreted my guitar and made new setup. The had almost distance of a micrometer to the board. I was surprised and happy. But after some days i changed the height back to more distance. It is more comfortable to play for me. :)
I go for different targets based on the guitar. I mostly use either 9.5's or 10's on my electrics (always 10's on 24.75" scale guitar). On my Fender guitars I go for 4/64" at the body fret on the low E, and 3/64" on the high E. I try to get the relief below .010" depending on the fretboard radius, and often get it down as far as .006". I'll go a littler higher on Gibsons if necessary. On my acoustics I usually go for 6-7/64" on the bass side and 5/64" on the treble, again with the relief no higher than .010" (I typically use a .12 - .56 set on acoustics).
After all these years I’m contented with feel and eyeballing as long I get the sound I want. But that’s just me.
Thank you for this info video!!!
12 fret High E 1/16th Low E 4/64 or 5/64th. That will be my standard and lower from there till I'll get some fret buzz. Nut action at the first fret I'll set to .016 to .019 depending on how the customer like it. Most of the time I'll just set Nut action to .018 on every string. Neck relief I set to .010 to .012
watched a vid about nut adjustment and trying to get rid of sharp notes in the first fret chords.it was such a fine adjustment when I tried it and it gave me a very low number over the first fret , as low as 10 thou but it did work . it was on my own guitars , not sure I would be brave enough to try on a customer guitar as one small error and its a new nut !!!
Kind a late in the mix here but driven by purchase of a used Gibson ES 335. Action on it is much lower than my Strat and it feels awkward. There’s a little string buzz on the bass string, but I’m approaching with the attitude that I can change my style both left and right hand, to accommodate the guitar. Maybe that’s putting the cart before the horse, but I feel my playing will be enhanced by the process. Does that make sense?
im an old skool thrash metal player so i want action thats in between low & medium,i achieve this by firstly getting the neck dead straight without strings on,then restring it to pitch to givd just a slight bit of relief using the tension of the strings usually enough for a razor blade to slide under the 8th with a kapo at the 1st & try to keep a max relief height just enough for a .50mm pic to slide under the 8th ,to set the action i tape a credit card or something slightly thicker maybe 1.80mm under the strings & across the 14th fret with a kapo at the 1st & set the E strings to just rest on the card & make any fine adjustments if i get buzz somewhere then use an understring radius gauge to set the rest,in my case its a near flat 16" radius,this may not work out for some players who like a bit more relief or have a rounder fingerboard radius
When i first started to do my setups on my instruments I studied jazz guitar, I had severe wrist problems due to the amount of study. I immediately got benefits from setting up my instruments very low, and then ended up doing it for many clients that liked my personal setup on my instruments.. i usually have my strat and my gibson es-137 to give them some examples. Some like it higher and some even lower. My low setups are around 0.4/0.6 mm at the 1st fret and 1.2/1.5mm on the bass side and 0.9/1.2 mm on the treble side at the 12th fret with 0.11 strings. Neck relief mesured at the 8 or 9 fret goes from 0.15 up to 0.3 .My setups include obviously an adequate fretjob, and i tend to have a fall off from the 12th fret down to the last one. I was often asked even lower setups for real fast shredders and tappers or litght handed jazz players!
Question, I set up my own action as generic set ups just don’t do it for me. It’s hard finding a tech who understand how to set up for more lower action.
I’m looking for tips on low action set ups. Right now I follow the same for string action on the low and high e, and also set the truss rod to very little if any relief. These are all on ibanez guitars. For the flashyer stuff, I play a lot of legato.
Any tips or videos on low action set ups from scratch?
Thanks for the video. You know the bunch of ppl that love to complaining about Floyds. Well, that's how I feel about setting up the action. 😄 Still unsure what exactly I want/how it would ideally feel like and how to make up for the differences of each guitar. As you said, there's no exact given number to aim for... Floyds, I find easy. Flush with the body = clear and easy.
And I just noticed how many interesting sounding videos you have, gotta check them out! ❤
0.6mm either side measured at the 8th,12th and 24th fret i put fallaway in the frets from the 12th fret onwards so the neck with relief essentially is level from the lowest point of relief middle of the neck to the 24th fret that's on a 17.75 inch radius
Interesting. thanks Chris.
I used to set my Fender strat up with Fenders specs but found the action too low. Can't get under the string for bends. I guess a lot depends on ones finger tips and caliuses.
I`m a budget player & do my own setups & mods.
Buying on the low end & if I can`t make it meet my expectations I trade it off & buy another.
So, I don`t get into refrets or anything too heavy, difficult or expensive & only a minor leveling here or there.
I like a narrow neck with a Gibson style radius, super flat & no relief.
I`m happy with 1/16" across the strings at the 12th & I use super light Ernie Ball strings which I buy individually or make up from buying 3 stock sets beginning with .08 & ending with 32.
I like to bend alot & this decreases finger fatigue while allowing me to make more notes more easily.
I also like the wavering, somewhat wobbly tone light strings create.
Excellent topic and video. String action is always a personal choice. If I were to setup a new guitar for a beginner, I will use factory specs. As for myself, there have only been one or two guitars in the last 40 years that had wonderfully low action. As if the guitar played itself. One was my Carvin Custom DC-150 and the other was a friends 1980's LP. Another observation is that set neck or neck thru is a totally different animal than a bolt on. A Strat or a Tele forces you to work a little harder and that's due mostly to the scale length. 25 1/2" for Fender and 24 3/4" for Gibson. The shorter scale tends to be more slinky. Another major factor is string gauge.
I have been on a constant drill of making my guitars as low as they can get. It all starts at the nut slots and string height above 1st fret. This is so critical to overall action. Since i now file my own nuts, I have to be very precise at measuring at 1st fret. Once I get the slots right, I record what gauge of strings. There's a big difference between 9 and 10 at the nut. Next I make sure the neck has the minimal amount of relief. Just enough and no more. Then it's time to break out the fret rocker. If I find just a few high frets, I can spot level and move on. If I find a bunch, I'll do the whole fretboard. Once I know the frets are good, I move on to the bridge. I like to see 4/64 on bass side and 2/64 on treble side.
It's important that the strings follow the radius of the fretboard. Spending quality time at the bridge is important. Raise and lower saddle screws uniformly. Since I play with a light touch, I can get my guitars down low. When it comes to slide, I like taller nut slots and at least 6/64 at 17th fret. If I'm doing CGCFAD I use heavier strings and set the action accordingly. The MOST IMPORTANT thing that all guitarists must follow is that when you setup a guitar for a particular gauge or purpose, KEEP THOSE STRINGS THE SAME. Same gauge, same maker. Don't change Ernie Ball's with DR.
My Carvin from 1984 plays better and has the lowest action of all the guitars I own or have played.👍👍👍✌
@@lisaayers1975 Wanna sell it? Just had to ask 😛
@@RayBecker No way Ray..They will bury me with my Carvin..🤔👍✌🎸🎸🎸🎸😇😇
Hello what's the glasses you wore On the thumbnail called?
In your experience with that action you usually use dont get any buzz even the minimum buzz? Or is there an acceptable buzz?
I have a Fender Player Plus Strat (12" radius, med. jumbo frets) with super slinkys on it (9's). I've got low E around 1.75mm and high e at 1 3mm (ish) and the rest of the strings in between. Still getting some sizzle on E and A but nothing that comes through the amp or chokes the notes out. I think ive got relief set right at Fender spec. Makes me wonder thiugh if Ive got something messed up and should be able to get lower with less buzz or if my tolerance for fret buzz is just too low? Wish i could get my hands on something that was setup by a pro to level set my expectations.
Thanks for the video; I've been enjoying your channel.
It would help to talk about the amount of relief at the same time as string height. I'm in the camp of "as close to dead flat as possible without adjusting the truss rod once a week", but I know a lot of people - it seems like especially fender players - who like significantly more.
"12th fret" is the most common measurement I've heard for string height, but I don't think there's common agreement on how to measure relief. Maybe put capos on one and 14 and measure at 6?
To keep it simple are use a quarter on the 12th and 13th fret underneath of to even strings to keep the ark I tap on it until the tab stops and I go back up just a smidgen works every time
I've always measured my action at the last fret. Also I press the first fret while measuring. My usual height at last fret for every string is 1/16. I go for a straight neck with very little relief. Then I play and adjust if necessary. When I check the action like normal at 12th fret it varies from guitar to guitar but it's around 3/64.
1/16?? Lol
@@ryans9029 That's 1.5mm I think. What's the problem with that? I'd consider it low but it is playable if you have awell built neck and a light touch.
Love your videos! On my guitars I set the string height where I can bend up 2 steps. How high that is I really do not know lol. 😎
On electric guitars, I always aim for 1mm on the first fret and 1.5mm on the 12th. Generally I make the action on acoustic guitars a little bit higher by about 25% for better sustain and sound. That’s just what I personally prefer.
1 mm on the first is a little high, no?
Well explained hope you could consider joining the teaching staff for the luthier education programs in colleges/ universities!! Why? Because you deserve it Chris. Best regards from ENGLAND.
Great video! It's annoying when players diss low action and believe high action makes them superior. Don't get me wrong, high action has benefits and to each their own. But sometimes with low action there's this negative opinion that it's considered "cheating". John Petrucci, Paul Gilbert, Guthrie Govan, and Jason Becker to name a few play with super low action and they're some of the most terrifying guitarists on the planet. Action is totally subjective.
Most of those dickheads are blues & punk players where low action isn't needed.
Great video on a topic that is often referred to but never actually taken head on.
I concur with all measurements there. Although I will say I’ve had guitars play clean with lower than 3/64th on high e. I can’t play it with that low an action though. I like a nice 3/64 and 4-5/64 on low E at 12th.
I repair and occasionally build guitars and would always shoot for those numbers.
1st fret action for me is a feel thing and done with the press at 2nd fret method.
Keep up the good work Chris
In my guitar circle of friends we often refer to the playing action as….until it plays like butter, then your good to go. Sometimes the request for action heights refer to other musicians setups….”set it up like Steve Vai or Eric Johnson “ etc…but great info here for noobs like me!
My gauge says 4/64 is 1.587 mm is it wrong ? Lol not 1.30mm
This is a hard topic because every guitar acts a little bit different from player to player, too.
How hard are the strings hit (and pressed down as well, which affects the intonation) and so on.
I prefer a little more tilted style from bass to treble because playing a little higher action on the bass side is no big deal but chords ring out fuller even/or especially when hitting the strings hard.
This also avoids buzzing of the strings in the middle a little more (when these can’t be set individually on the bridge.. i.e. Tune-O-Matic) - and you can get a bit lower on the treble side where you really want and need the low action right?
In Numbers: Between 1.4-1.75mm on the bass side and 1.25-1.0mm on the treble side depending on the guitar and given adjustments that can be made. But it’s more a try and feel thing I’d say.
I’ve had several used guitars that were simply lacking of a proper setup. I guess that’s why most of them had to go…
so I got this issue with my DS 1 pedal. only when I turn the tone knob on my epiphone, the DS1 starts making a clicking sound. I tried my bass, and it didn't make this sound. My guitar first goes through a DI as well so I don't really get what's causing this issue, any experience with this? As soon as a roll down the tone knobs on my epiphone the clicking stops, it's really weird
Bad ground
Hello. When measuring string height at 12th fret do you hold down string on 1st fret while measuring? I see some folks do that and many that don’t.
No.
I am taking note with pen & paper while watching your video. 😂
Very interesting. I use the same numbers at the 12th fret basically and I rose the string over the first fret just enough to be able to get a punch harmonic. If it's too low it won't ping. I'm speaking of a 14 to 16 inch radius guitar neck with just a little tad tad little relief because the string is in an eclipse at the 5th fret, etc.
Of course, it's hard to find a guitar any more that's under 2 k that has a good level frets and good radius, etc and the frets have good steel jt seems in my experience and I've been playing for 40 years plus. My japanese guitars from Charvel Jackson for instance and Japanese Ibanez guitars have in some instances not even needed abrefret in several years with almost no wear. It's so bad anymore wjth newer gujtars that I can wear out frets in 2 to 3 years it seems on average guitars. I'm going to EVO or Stainless frets because of the same.
Thanks for the video sir
Hood topic and good info my friend!
4/64" and 5/64" buzz on all my guitars, but trough an amp it's not a big deal. I do feel it in my fingers so it bothers me a tiny bit.
Amazing knowledge, bit in imperial🤣I had to make conversions all the time lol.
I've always found it depends on the guitar, I rarely get a fender strat to behave like an Ibanez or PRS. In fact, every Fender neck I own differs, and thats with neck profile factored out, also the truss rods in the fenders are slow to react unlike the other two. Having said that the partscaster I assembled has B:2mm T:1.75mm on 9.5" radius and it plays great, height over the 1st fret is plink!
What is plink?
@@andrewcarpio9432 it's the sound made when you fret the string over the second fret and tap the first fret, it's a gap you can barely see, but you can hear it. I usually start at half string height and fine tune the nut from there.. 👍🏼
@@michaelreis8266 thanks!
I like 1.5mm bass side
& a little bit lower for the high e. If any of my guitars will allow it, I'll take em' down lower but that seems to be the medium for me. If I was going to set the factory specs on guitars I was making I would set the action around 1.75mm at 12th.
Personally my favorite action is when frets 0 1 2 don’t buzz then 3 to 7 are playable then the farther you go down the neck it gets to the point you can’t even hit the frets past the 12 fret. I don’t even play up that high anyways. If I take it to a luthier I don’t get that result back so I’ve made sure all my guitars are like that. Most people like a slight amount of relief in one direction but I definitely press that relief the other way.
I shoot for a consistent 1.2 to 1.5mm at 17th fret with a capo on 1st fret. I never want that super low/slinky action of my old Ibanez RG550, as it made may hands too weak to play anything else. My new setup feels the best of both worlds and allows me to pick up and play just about anything
I had a 550. Mine weighed a ton
I always eye balled it and went by feel.
I did exactly what EVH did..
One day I measured it to see what the gap actually was
Low E=.062
High E=.040
🙋♂️
On my Maton acoustic I have .060 to .062 low E and .040 to .042 action high E
On my Fender telecaster .065 to .068 low E .042 to .045.
First fret action readings ....low E first fret .018 to .020 and high E first fret .015
Great video thanks...!!!
And thank you for your contribution. You've helped make this comment section a goldmine of set-up information.
My guitar is set to 2mm on the low E and 1.75mm on the high E at the 12th fret. Some might call it high, but I think its medium-ish for me. The guitar came from the factory with even higher action.
Same here. All my semis and archtops have exact these measurement. And 0.2mm of relief. I play Chromes 12 from D'Addario. I adjust the stiff tension by lifting the stop tail on my semis quite a bit. They all play like a dream.
I agree 2mm and 1.75mm at twelfth fret with about six thousands of an inch relief between frets one and twelve. I also prefer jumbo frets.
I like that setup for when I play slide. That way you can use a slide on my little finger and play chords with my other fingers
I always use a 2.0 mm pick and slide it under the 12th fret on both sides to make sure that my action is below 2 mm to start with, but usually end up getting it closer to 1.5 or even 1.25 mm, and yes, with proper low action there is a certain amount of buzzing that is unavoidable. I want my guitar to play fast and clean and the notes to sing. As long as every note can sing with minimal buzz, and the neck is almost perfectly straight and the guitar is intonated all the way up the fretboard.
Unless you have a very light touch, there is going to be a small amount of buzz when playing on a guitar that is properly set up for easy quick playing.
I’m American and I’m Not sure why anyone uses inches when measuring string height to measure action, millimeters are the logical, practical unit for distances like that.
I agree with you on using mm, you can just use a guitar pick instead of a feeler gauge.
im in Australia & constantly need to go to conversion charts when i watch a lot of set up vids,mm & cm is what we use here
As an American I totally agree about the use of mm rather than inches. Trying to measure to 64ths of an inch is ridiculous. Just use millimeters.
I have never once measured anything to set the action. I just keep lowering it until it buzzes, then raise it back up a bit so it stops. And I've done setups for multiple gigging musicians with no complaints...
the numbers that you've mentioned are what I've heard to shoot for: 4/64 (0.0625" or 1.55mm) generally for both high and low Es. the problem I have had is that when I go for that height from readjusting the saddles, I get fret-buzz starting at 2nd fret and I check that string on each fret. Without doing any neck adjustments, I end up raising the saddles until I get no fret buzz but the out come is that I'm quite higher than the target numbers are. Am I looking at not just racing or lowering the saddles, but I'll need to adjust the neck relief as well...??... But I consider you video full of info so mucho thanks for your time & effort for this.
I do my own adjustments on my guitars, i’m not a pro, and in my experience the string buzz in the 2nd fret means you should adjust the truss rod and give a little more relief to the neck. There are a lot of videos that explain that. A set of feeler gauges will be useful. Greetings
I have one guitar that at 12th Fret is 3/64. I bought an identical model and can only get it to 4/64. Both play great, but for some reason my Jackson Soloist Pro Series has some Magic that can go low and have no buzz. I compare all other guitars against that one.
4/64 ths base side and 3/64ths are the specs given by Gretsch for their electric guitars.
A funny part of the question is that a lot of the people who do setups for their own guitars generally watched youtube videos about people setting up guitars and that's the height that is most often recommended. It makes we wonder if it's most common because it's what's most repeated, or it's common because it's the ideal height.
And I wonder if the videos are repeating whats in some of the books.
I grew accustomed to this bootleg Les Paul from the 70s the frets are so worn that I could have the action ridiculously low and it kinda spoiled me. Now I play a jazzmaster and I'm always thinking this is way too high but I constantly get fret buzz when I adjust things.
I like my action somewhere between buzzing and longbow.
Hello everyone!
Being engaged in systematic repair, manufacture and tuning of guitars, we came to the conclusion, that the height of the strings above the 12th fret depends on dozens of factors: the beaker, the curvature of the frets, the caliber and the material of the strings. In fact, almost every guitar is unique in this regard and it is almost impossible to adjust it to a certain standard. The average values that we have come to at the moment are 1.2 mm on the high E and 1.6 on the lower E. It's on electric guitars. Acoustic parameters: 1.8 and 1.3, respectively. Bass is a completely different conversation))) The hardest thing to explain to the client is that low action with weak technique or with the style of play can cause discomfort. but still they always want the same thing: the lower the better and so that it does not ring.
Thank you for your attention, good luck to everyone!
You nailed it. Thanks!
For Basses, i normally set up my action at 6/64 on both the E & G strings. Gives a nice playability with not too much buzzing going on. But funny enough, i noticed this measurement works well on 7.25" neck radiuses. That being said, do neck radiuses and string height have any correlation or least, a factor in Tone?
Fretboard radius and string height affect how you play and how you play affects the tone.
Personally I would definitely have to have numbers for documentation and future adjustments and if it is done for someone else the same is applied and numbers has to be documented as a proof and reference too in the future for any adjustments. Other important is the playing style and preference. The guitar type, era and other gadgets Amps, pedals ...etc.. The radius of the neck and the frets details height width material...etc. The strings gauges types...etc. The pickups types, magnets...etc. And so many other factors but at the end figures and numbers has to be documented especially we are living in total time everything is high tech where robots need numbers and targets to be programmed and achieved plus today you can buy high tech CNC machines for couple of hundreds because the prices came down due to too many suppliers and even free delivery and after sale support. With all respect to the old school generation and their experience and skills which we could take what we need from it too. Excellent video Chris as always I salute you my friend thank you best regards from ENGLAND.
I shoot for a quarter at the twelfth fret base side a dime on the 1st string try to get the coins to set between the string and the fret and hold them that's my perfect height
I dont measure but i like em low. Getting a little buzz during a full step or half step bend is ultra sexy. But anyways i watched a video with marshall harrison measuring his MIJ he plays with the ultimate low action think he recited his measurements being in the 1mm to 1.5 if i remember correctly. As low as possible with buzz only at the high e 1st and 2nd fret a little.
Nice video. I find 5/64 still to be a little too low for my playing style and pick attack. Still buzzing more than I would like. Have you heard setting up the string heights a little flatter than the actual radius?
That's decent action, so the fret buzz could mean you need a straighter neck (not completely straight) or you have uneven frets.
I like pretty low action, my target number is usually 1.25mm off of the 12th fret. The last three high strings I like to slowly roll down the height to 1.1mm at the high E
Mine are set with a 0.005 inch relief and 1.5mm on the bass strings and 1.25mm on the treble strings but bear in mind I have a 20 inch radius which is about as flat as you can get and immaculate stainless steel frets that are perfectly level which makes a huge difference when shooting for low action without excessive buzz.
Very true regards fret level. It’s got to be the first job in my view, you can’t get a guitar playing well without first making sure all the frets are perfectly level.
Is it a Kiesel?
What strings are you using?
I never measure. I suppose I should. Lol. My idea of low action is a neck with no (or very little) relief, and the strings as low as I can set them and keep them sounding clean. I usually raise the bass side slightly. I cut my nuts so when I press a string down on the third fret it just barely touches the top of the first fret.
Medium action would be to just bring them all up a little… maybe 1/16”. I just go by feel. I’ve never had anyone ask for medium action. Or high action, unless they are playing slide. Then it doesn’t really matter, does it. 😄
I'm watching at 1.25 speed and it's perfect :) I measure string action at 17th fret. It is determined by how comfortable I'm at bending strings. So for me trebble about 2.0mm and bass at 2.5mm. The string action at nut is basically some space between strings so that the notes don't go sour when I play cowboy chords there. The way I refret nowadays, is I set the neck straight and start using the fretrocker at the heel and spot check each fret going forward to the headstock. I find beam leveling takes too much off the frets. Yes, it's a slow process but it's an art in itself and I feel like some kind of japanese luthier that carefully crafts his instrument LOL :)
P.S. for those naysayers, the string height determines if you can grab and push down the string when doing the bends. The string first touches your finger then it is pushed down and up. If you have too low a string action you won't be able to grab onto that string and it will end up under your finger and you won't be able to push it up with your finger. Try it. Setup your gitar with really low action then do the bends and then set it up with really high action and do the bends. You'll see and feel the difference. Both too low and too high string action is bad. Somewhere in the middle and that differs from person to person because of their fingers.
I can tell you that this is higher than most ppl would like. 1.5mm for the high E would be low and 2mm for the low E woulkd be meidum. 1.3mm and below for the high E would be low and 1.5mm for the low E would be low as well.
4/64" action on the low E is 1.6mm not 1.3mm.
Fender's action specs for low E and high E vary by radius: 2.0/1.6mm on a 7.25" radius; 1.6mm/1.6mm on a 9.5" radius; 1.6mm/1.2mm on flatter neck. But they oddly suggest measuring at the 17th fret, not the 12th.
I'm surprised at the number of people who like their 12th fret action higher than 2.0mm/1.6mm. I don't go that far, but I can't play guitars with very low action. I can't get a grip on strings to bend them.
Amen. I'm a string bender too and to me, there is definitely such a thing as "too low".
What kinda frets are we talking here? I've noticed this a non-issue with extra high frets or scalloped fret board.
@@jotunbjorn I'm talking about standard off the rack guitars such as Tele's and Les Paul's and the like. I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem if I had tall frets or a scalloped fretboard. I actually own a Malmsteen Strat and it's fun to play with the scalloped board, but not my favorite. I'm a traditional guy and I prefer a traditional fretboard with traditional frets and my action just high enough that I can comfortably grip the strings for bending. .07 at 12th for Fender style radius and .06 for Gibson style radius. That's just what works for me personally.
I also find that if the action is too low that its harder to bend
i just refretted an old Tokai strat neck with 7.25 rad. I used medium jumbo and got the high e string height at 12th fret down tp 0.8mm with minimaal buzz when bending high. I sanded in fall away from 13th fret Dont get better than that and can easily be raised if need be.
From the 13th?? That's a huge amount of fall away
@@ryans9029 i put one layer painters tape over the 13 fret so its not very steep but sure makes a difference.
Ive been experimenting with my guitar setup recently. At the moment i have the low E set to ~1.25mm and high E set to about ~0.75mm. Tried various setups, tried 1.75 on low E, and 1.5 on high E, and while it was perfectly playable, it wasnt too comfortable for me, probably due to my tiny hands. The problem i encounter, is that i get this "quacky" sound on high strings, and im not sure whats causing it, especially since its still there no matter how high i put my strings up. At first i thought it was fret buzz, but i adjusted the truss rod, changed string height multiple times, and its still there. Any ideas?
You probably have a high fret somewhere on the fretboard.
@@HighlineGuitars Sadly i have no proper way of checking that. Tried the ol' "check if credit card wobbles" thing, but with my bad checking, half of the frets seem uneven on a new guitar
You must have a super light touch lol
@@chrisking6695 no, its a messed up guitar. Multiple guitar techs confirmed. Sadly, Solar didnt do anything about it
I dnt find guitar tech guys here in Mauritius. Initially I used to have a very straight neck I mean I would straighten the truss rod to get as little relief as possible. I had fret buzz mainly at treble 5th and sometimes at treble 12th. Then after many years I realised string tension becomes quite high when u have little relief. Bending becomes more difficult. Fingers hurt. I now have more relief and I think my action at 24 th fret treble is 1 mm and low E at 24 is 1.5 or between 1.35 to 1.5. Pretty difficult to measure with those string measurement height cheap tools I got from eBay. Having more relief gives better tones. Tye neck is slightly curved u dnt really notice if u play from 1-5 frets or above 12-24. I believe only the middle part of the guitar will have slightly raised action but the first 1-5 and 12-24 is super low. It’s an inconvenience I have to live with and I believe it’s better than having a completely straight neck with high string tension plus string buzz and a hard trem bar.
When it comes to action,I'm more interested in how to get the guitar strings to feel slinky, why does one guitar feel like butter to play,and another one just like it,has a really tight feel to the strings, I've tried raising the stop bar on a les paul,doing truss rod adjustments and know how to get low action, now if I could only get a slinky feel, on a guitar that's really hard to press the strings down on, anyone out here have any tips, thanks. 😊👍
Sounds like youre talking about string tension? Scale length will determine some of that
Generally you get less tension on the stri gs on a gibson scale neck of 24.75% most normaly guitars use a standard of 25.5" which will cause more tension on the strings. Making them feel stiffer harder to play as they are under more tension. On my standard tuning guitars I play extra slinky .08, also helps a bit.
Would you apply the same principles of setting string action to a bass guitar?
Yep.
hey man love the channel but.... that 12/2 wire feeding that outlet above the craftsman box needs a staple its driving me nuts HAHA thanks bud great video
I know. I keep looking at it thinking the same thing,
I try to shoot for 1mm low e 12th fret and 1.0mm high e 12th fret but I can't seem to accomplish this on all of my guitars without buzzing. So, I've learned to treat them individually and it's roughly 1mm to 1.5mm low e and the same for high e 12th fret. I set these up for myself and I am not a professional luthier but I got tired of paying techs to setup and then be disappointed with the work. There are only two local guys that I found that were spot on but their wait times were so long. I've learned to set them up myself and save my money and learned.
My personal action on my tele, at 12 fret : 0,5mm at 1st string, and 0,7mm at 6th string, cant do bending
Very good and helpful videos on action height. I'd also love to hear your views on neck relief - that's something that's still a bit of a mystery to me. I've tended to keep my necks very flat, like .002" relief; I haven't been able to create better action by increasing the relief, although, theoretically, you should be able to get lower action high up the fretboard with the proper relief.
Three things are needed for low action: nut and saddle height plus neck bow and saddle. I think to get really low action, the nut height can be increased and then the bow decreased. There is, of course, a maximum limit on how low the strings can go, though.
.05-.08 inch is what I tend to like, I aim for .07 inch at 12th fret, exactly over that fret. Feels really good and easier to play.
2 on everything. Strings, pickups.
@@BOBANDVEG 2mm all around?
@@redkurn yes. 2mm for strng height, 2mm for pickup height.
It just makes setup easier
All these numbers are possible only if you know for sure all frets al leveled. Then its all about a dance between neck, nut, bridge and the musician. A very low action guitar will buzz a lot for SRV but plays as butter to Petrucci 😅
I think string buzz needs to be more clearly defined. Does it mean no buzz when the guitar is played unamplified? Or is it when you can hear buzz through an amplifier.
The numbers you have 4-5/64 bass side and 3-4/64 treble are realistic. Really any much less then that will buzz noticeably acoustically, but not buzz through an amplifier, but when you get to some numbers people are talking about. Like 1/64 treble and 2/64 bass, for sure it would be buzzing like crazy unplugged and most likely through the amp.
And for sure, the accuracy to which people are measuring isn’t standardized, even people’s vision plays a factor when measuring to such small tolerances. And then there’s the old ego that pops up and maybe embellishes how low their particular action is. There really aren’t enough, (really any) comparable videos of people with a standardized tool, measuring in a standardized way to make accurate assessments of what really is low, medium or high action.
Having said all that, as a guitar builder/luthier myself, and as a person who prides himself on neck work, I really think you are bang on with your numbers.
12th heigh E 1.7 mm / low E 2.25 is my preferred action.
Came from 1.2mm/1.6mm. Now I dislike such a low action.
I dont unterstand why people have to mention this kinds of numbers when they can just use milimeters instead
Most guitarists say action low as possible with no fret buzz. Which is an oxymoron. 4/64th of an inch. But that converts to 2/32nd. Which converts to 1/16th. Why wouldn't you just say 1/16th.
what's that on the bench in front of you? I owned your Green Dragon for a while.
This one: ruclips.net/p/PL7TLAFxVOtrX6jjM8aTLehuo2odgQH6Rw&si=2sADwDz6lnHy1K6T
feel of the guitar for me is dependant on the nut. if there is a well cut low nut like a zero. it will feel like butter even with higher 12th fret height.
Same here. I had a couple of guitars with problematic intonation; Then I finally paid attention to the nut. Almost every guitar seems to come with the nut slots cut WAY too high, causing all kinds of problems. Now the nut is what I pay attention to first, right after setting the relief.
I am noticing on my guitar that I recently purchased that the sharp e-string appears to be lower than the rest of the strings and I tend to find it difficult if doing any type of fingerstyle playing. Is this a natural string setting?
No. It sounds like the e string’s action was overlooked during setup. Can you raise the e string’s saddle?
I am assuming you are referring to the bridge. Actually after checking more closely, it appears the D string is also too high as well. If I lay a ruler across the strings should all strings show evenly against the bottom of the ruler. @@HighlineGuitars
@@Kennethswoodcarvings I am referring to the bridge. What kind of guitar are you referring to? Does it have a bridge with saddles that can be raised or lowered individually? Does the fretboard have a radius? In theory, the strings should match the freboard's radius. You'll need a radius gauge to check this. Start by setting the string height for the two outer strings. Next, set the radius gauge on the strings and raise or lower each inner string until all of the strings are just barely touching the edge of the radius gauge. Don't let the weight of the radius gauge bend the strings. Just lightly touch the edge of the gauge to the strings. Once the strings match the radius of the fretboard, you can test play the guitar and raise or lower each string to accommodate your style of playing.
I have the Gretsch CB-JR series. There are Small screws on the bridge just under the strings and I am assuming these would be for adjusting the strings whether it be for lowering or raising. Would I be correct?
@@Kennethswoodcarvings No. Your guitar has a tune-o-matic bridge. Those screws are for setting the intonation. You can only raise or lower each end of the bridge. You can’t adjust individual string height. It is possible to lower the strings individually by deepening the slots the strings sit in, but unless you have experience doing that and the right tools to do it, I’d suggest having a professional do it for you.
I go by metric. I have to have 1.2mm on both sides @12th fret. I actually cannot play the guitar without that height. I've played for 30 years. Anything above 1.2mm is high and it hurts my hands, specifically fretting hand. Even picking hand feels awkward with higher setups. Low for me is 1.2mm and high is anything above it lol. I have a metric height gauge from Stew Mac that I honestly live by. String height is completely subjective and one person's low is actually another person's medium. That very general low/medium/high idea isn't plausible and doesn't work because of it's high subjectivity. Even at 1.2mm, there are times where bending a string up on the higher frets will fret out, not all of the time but sometimes. I can tell you that John Petrucci from Dream Theater also has that same height on all of his guitars.
At least, its what i did on my martin, and i really like it
Been playing 38 yrs. I have my action at .030 on high e side and .039 on low e side. I have no problem bending notes, i have no string/ fret buzz and my necks are dead level.
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0.75mm high e and 1.1mm on the low a at the 12 fret on a seven string is my normal setup
only the newbees with soft fingers have an obsession with ultra low action.
So true!
My guitars with hardtail bridges are set up to 1mm on high E string and 2mm on low E. No fret buzz
Same here except i have vibrato bridge on all but my Les paul Gold top 50's re-issue.
Really interesting video. I do not like low action on my guitars, makes the string bending uncomfortable
Try the Bonamassa method.... reasonable action for bending on the unwound strings, and LOWER action for the wound strings. It's working for me terrifically.
@@electricurinal thanks for the tip mate. The next time I change the strings I will try it.
Best string action for strat in my opinion is 1,5 mm and les paul 1,25 mm with 0,25 mm relief.
imo anything lower than 1.5 mm on the high E starts to choke out when you hit the string. Came to the conclusion that I'd rather have great dynamic options than lowest actio possible