The knuckleball doesn’t go “extinct” just dormant. There’s always a lull between great knuckleballers: Wakefield ‘92-11 was preceded by Niekro ‘64-‘87 who took over from Wilhelm ‘52-‘72 who followed Cicotte ‘05-‘20.
Dickey is interesting to me because of how he evolved the knuckleball. He has the Cy Young which no other knuckleballer has, but I think either Phil Niekro or Hoyt Wilhelm must be considered the best ever.
Actually there were a few knuckleballers during the 80's and 90's. Candiotti ,Hough, Wakefield. I only see one out there right now so It would be nice to see more of these pitchers to make MLB more exciting.
Tim Wakefield was so fun to watch because of his knuckleball, and thats coming from a Guardians fan. MLB needs more knuckleballers! It makes the game way more exciting and the pitch, when thrown right, challenges even the top hitters of the league.
It was fun but wakefield was literally gambling. Like RA Dickey. You get lucky and it does the right things at key moments, both movement and location wise and its unhittable. With bad luck you become a HR derby toss guy. Wakefield ended at a 4.50era or so.. Thing is, he was always healthy and available which is valuable. Waldron treating it like a second pitch is not much different than most mlb pitchers third or fourth pitch where they're not consistent with it or lack control. If it's not working Waldron doesnt need it. And I think this is the way
As a catcher for my time playing baseball from 8-20 yrs old, I taught my 7+ year old son how to throw the knuckleball to keep him and his arm away from the curve. He threw his first no-hitter at 9 yrs old in the Orlando FL little league tournament, at that age the kids dint know what to do with it. The use of the K-ball continued through travel ball, High School and summer leagues leading to scholarship offers. As a HS senior he beat, in the state semi-finals, the undefeated #1 team in the state, with 5 draftees, with ease once the plate umpire figured out what he was throwing in the first inning ( no runs allowed). In his junior and senior year he always faced, what MBL called " the Dark Knight" to very close games, the only player that could hit him was his travel team catcher ( who was the Gatorade state player of the year) because he knew the drop, and movement, as a catcher.
i was very weary with Waldron at the start of the season... he had ALOT of traffic on his bases, and often times very early in the game. Always in a jam. I'm very glad to see that he has turned into one of, if not, all things considered, our best pitcher in the rotation. Nobody in baseball can replicate what he does. Bravo, Matty Nuckles.
Wish the knuckleball was more prevalent. I got tendinitis at 12 from over pitching and throwing curves too early, so the knuckleball became my go to and by 16 I had it down perfect. Damn I miss the days of little league and travel ball
This is the way. A knuckleball as a secondary pitch makes its control and movement issues non-existent. Its the same as a pitcher with not really good control of his slider, curve or other third or fourth pitch
It’s not that teams don’t like knucklers. It’s really that catching for them is challenging and goes against everything they are trained to do and a pro catcher.
Actually, it is the erratic transition from laminar airflow to turbulent airflow. Since the ball rotates slowly, and is traveling at a proper speed (which changes based on air temperature, density, humidity, etc.) the ball's laces triggers the transition from laminar to turbulent flow. So the wake effects are turbulent on one side of the ball and laminar on the other, so the ball will have lateral movement. As the knuckleball continues to rotate slightly, the laces move, and thus the location of turbulent and laminar wakes change, and the direction of the laminar movement changes - a "dancing" knuckleball
@@adamgrumet9149 Putting spin on the ball causes differential air pressure on either side of the ball, which causes it to curve. In physics, it is called the Magnus Effect. The spinning ball causes there to be fast flowing air on one side of the ball, and slower moving air on the other.
@@Lotus_jacobaeus Yes, that is why curveballs curve. Or any pitch for that matter that has significant spin. The air is moving relatively faster on one side of the ball, versus the other. Faster air, lower pressure (Bernoulli effect), ball movement. However, the physics behind the knuckleball, where the ball barely spins is very different. It is the random transition to turbulence that is the factor here
If you can master the knuckle ball it's a great pitch. I umpired semi pro highschool and legion ball. There was one kid that through it. As an umpire it was hard to call it at times. The catcher only asked for it maybe twice an inning because it crossed him up . He was not confident he could catch it because it moved so odd . I know I missed some strikes because my mind kept telling me that is a ball and I would see it go across the plate as a strike but my mind was yelling ball. There was a game that a good hitter yelled to the pitcher go ahead throw that knuckle I wii nock it out of here. When it got to three and two. The pitcher showed hit the ball with his fingers bent into the ball. When the pitch came in the batter all most screwed him self into the ground the bat wasn't even close
I've been watching him intently. The mixing in of the fastball and the slurve/sweeper is pretty devastating. He's become my favorite padres starter LFGSD!!!
It would be interesting to see how many knuckleballers there are throughout MiLB. I hear about all these different knuckleball training camps, so people are still trying to learn it. Is there a general threshold to how high up the Minor League ladder that they top out at?
The knuckle ball is effective primarily because it is a pitch batters rarely see. I would go further and suggest that hitters don't spend a lot of time training to hit knuckle balls instead, coaches have them focus on dealing with the more common pitches such as sliders, fastballs, cutters, curveballs, and change ups. This is why a batter suddenly finding a ball with no spin moving oddly in the air as it approaches the plate cannot hit it. The effectiveness of the knuckle ball depends on how rare it is used. It's a pitch that relies heavily on the element of surprise. If more pitchers begin using the pitch and it becomes more common, hitters will get better equipped to handle it. Eventually the pitch will become less effective.
It's funny, because so many pundits said it was dead, said it would never come back. They said it was over that an era had ended. Like 10 RUclipsrs make videos about this last year and now they all seemed absolutely silly. Like I said the knuckleball is as effective as it ever was maybe more because hardly anybody throws it. The issue isn't that the knuckleball doesn't work, however that most pictures just don't throw it therefore there's somewhat of a cognitive bias in that thinking that nobody throws it because it doesn't work. Kind of Sengas forkball.
It's a fun day when you get to watch a good knuckle ball pitcher. The speed and movement of the ball can take a good hitter's bating average down a notch or two.
I was literally just talking to my dad about how the knuckleball is about to go extinct and then this video popped up, which is insane. I can’t believe and I’m super super happy that the knuckleball is not extinct and I hope it never will.
I’d argue that expected stats may not be great when looking at a knuckleball pitcher. The slower speed allows the hitter time to realize it’s a knuckle and shorten the swing a bit. Something along those lines might be why the exit bell is low given the BA
You need a lot of luck as a knuckler even if in this case that wasn't the cause. It needs to move just right and go to the right location at key moments but really throughout the whole game. And you cant influence it. Thats why wakefield had a career 4.50 average and Dickey was only the best pitcher in the league for 1 year, he just had the most luck any knuckleballer ever had that year
Like some cult religion that barely survives, there has always been at least one but rarely more than five or six devotees throwing the knuckleball in the big leagues . . . Not only can't pitchers control it, hitters can't hit it, catchers can't catch it, coaches can't coach it and most pitchers can't learn it. The perfect pitch. Ron Luciano
even if you get ahold of a good knuckleball its often a pop up or some weak sauce because if its doing knuckleball things its literally just swinging and hoping for the best😂 edit: but if your knuckleball doesnt knuckleball its just BP
Waldron could be the first because true knucklers never will be consistent. You need legit stuff for when its not working. Problem1 is you need a catcher dedicated to a knuckleballer. Calling Wakefield the most reliable is ridiculous, love him but he had a 4.40 career era. Only reliability was his health. And we all seen Dickey have the most luck ever for that one year and be the best pitcher in the mlb. after that he never had the luck to make it move in advantageous ways in key moments again and faded out of the league
Phil Niekro claimed to be able to control it, but while the knuckleball was his main pitch, he had decent enough stuff he reportedly won his 300th game throwing only other pitches. So, it's more accurate to say Waldron has the chance to be Phil's equal. (His brother Joe was good but not nearly as good with it.)
@@dougfowler1368 phil niekro? Are you crazy. He famously relied on it the most. He even said his fastball doesnt exceed the speel limit and that a beach ball would beat it to the plate. Maybe actually watch some games and interviews with Phil
Don’t compare Waldron to the great Wakefield or RA Dickey. His KB is relatively flat and most of the times way way out of strike zone; it fooled hitters early in the season due to its novelty. To fool mlb hitters with 70mph pitches, it better dance like a butterfly up and down left and right. You have to dedicate yourself to a KB to be effective, not just throw it like a part time hobby.
Sorry, Wakefield was tedious to watch! The value of knuckleballers is that they tend to eat a lot of innings and stay healthy. But, they cannot be depended upon for big moments.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
The knuckleball doesn’t go “extinct” just dormant. There’s always a lull between great knuckleballers: Wakefield ‘92-11 was preceded by Niekro ‘64-‘87 who took over from Wilhelm ‘52-‘72 who followed Cicotte ‘05-‘20.
Don’t forget Dickey! Dude had both fast and slow knuckleballs!
I was coming to say the same thing. The history of the knuckleballer goes back a lot longer than Wakefield.
Dickey is interesting to me because of how he evolved the knuckleball. He has the Cy Young which no other knuckleballer has, but I think either Phil Niekro or Hoyt Wilhelm must be considered the best ever.
Thanks for the history points !
Actually there were a few knuckleballers during the 80's and 90's. Candiotti ,Hough, Wakefield. I only see one out there right now so It would be nice to see more of these pitchers to make MLB more exciting.
Tim Wakefield was so fun to watch because of his knuckleball, and thats coming from a Guardians fan. MLB needs more knuckleballers! It makes the game way more exciting and the pitch, when thrown right, challenges even the top hitters of the league.
Indians fan. Woke bs is for politics
It was fun but wakefield was literally gambling. Like RA Dickey. You get lucky and it does the right things at key moments, both movement and location wise and its unhittable. With bad luck you become a HR derby toss guy. Wakefield ended at a 4.50era or so.. Thing is, he was always healthy and available which is valuable. Waldron treating it like a second pitch is not much different than most mlb pitchers third or fourth pitch where they're not consistent with it or lack control. If it's not working Waldron doesnt need it. And I think this is the way
Indians for sure
Indians*
No real Indians fan will ever call them the guardians. Lame AF
wakefield and dickey were both amazing. glad someones keeping the pitch alive.
Tim wakefeild once said someone else would discover the kunckle.
That wakefield knuckleball at 1:16 is crazy
As a catcher for my time playing baseball from 8-20 yrs old, I taught my 7+ year old son how to throw the knuckleball to keep him and his arm away from the curve. He threw his first no-hitter at 9 yrs old in the Orlando FL little league tournament, at that age the kids dint know what to do with it. The use of the K-ball continued through travel ball, High School and summer leagues leading to scholarship offers. As a HS senior he beat, in the state semi-finals, the undefeated #1 team in the state, with 5 draftees, with ease once the plate umpire figured out what he was throwing in the first inning ( no runs allowed). In his junior and senior year he always faced, what MBL called " the Dark Knight" to very close games, the only player that could hit him was his travel team catcher ( who was the Gatorade state player of the year) because he knew the drop, and movement, as a catcher.
This video has convinced me as a little leaguer to try and learn it I’ll maybe report back in like a month
i was very weary with Waldron at the start of the season... he had ALOT of traffic on his bases, and often times very early in the game. Always in a jam. I'm very glad to see that he has turned into one of, if not, all things considered, our best pitcher in the rotation. Nobody in baseball can replicate what he does. Bravo, Matty Nuckles.
I know it’s been a month but Dylan Cease is our best pitcher followed by King… as long as Musgrove/Darvish are sidelined
6:22 the field is playing deep, but with the exit velo on his knuckles, they need to play shallow.
Wish the knuckleball was more prevalent. I got tendinitis at 12 from over pitching and throwing curves too early, so the knuckleball became my go to and by 16 I had it down perfect. Damn I miss the days of little league and travel ball
it’s just hard to throw consistently everytime and if you fail to get movement that ball is gone with how good batters are nowadays
This is the way. A knuckleball as a secondary pitch makes its control and movement issues non-existent. Its the same as a pitcher with not really good control of his slider, curve or other third or fourth pitch
Waldron is the best pitcher on the Padres , crazy
probably.
It’s not that teams don’t like knucklers. It’s really that catching for them is challenging and goes against everything they are trained to do and a pro catcher.
amazing as always
Always loved throwing the knuckle ball, hardly used it in games but was fun to mess with some people with
Very cool video. I havent watched baseball in years but I'm watching again because of this dude.
Just picked him up in fantasy, on the day you dropped this. Subbed.
The "wind currents" aren't what gives it that type of movement. It's the pressure.
Actually, it is the erratic transition from laminar airflow to turbulent airflow. Since the ball rotates slowly, and is traveling at a proper speed (which changes based on air temperature, density, humidity, etc.) the ball's laces triggers the transition from laminar to turbulent flow. So the wake effects are turbulent on one side of the ball and laminar on the other, so the ball will have lateral movement. As the knuckleball continues to rotate slightly, the laces move, and thus the location of turbulent and laminar wakes change, and the direction of the laminar movement changes - a "dancing" knuckleball
@@adamgrumet9149 Putting spin on the ball causes differential air pressure on either side of the ball, which causes it to curve. In physics, it is called the Magnus Effect. The spinning ball causes there to be fast flowing air on one side of the ball, and slower moving air on the other.
@@Lotus_jacobaeus Yes, that is why curveballs curve. Or any pitch for that matter that has significant spin. The air is moving relatively faster on one side of the ball, versus the other. Faster air, lower pressure (Bernoulli effect), ball movement. However, the physics behind the knuckleball, where the ball barely spins is very different. It is the random transition to turbulence that is the factor here
If you can master the knuckle ball it's a great pitch. I umpired semi pro highschool and legion ball. There was one kid that through it. As an umpire it was hard to call it at times. The catcher only asked for it maybe twice an inning because it crossed him up . He was not confident he could catch it because it moved so odd . I know I missed some strikes because my mind kept telling me that is a ball and I would see it go across the plate as a strike but my mind was yelling ball.
There was a game that a good hitter yelled to the pitcher go ahead throw that knuckle I wii nock it out of here.
When it got to three and two. The pitcher showed hit the ball with his fingers bent into the ball. When the pitch came in the batter all most screwed him self into the ground the bat wasn't even close
this Is why I love Baseball
Great video, i subbed
Me too.
Thanks you!
I've been watching him intently. The mixing in of the fastball and the slurve/sweeper is pretty devastating. He's become my favorite padres starter LFGSD!!!
If it works, it works!
I love the knuckleball but I don’t know how to do it. My friend goes ahead and tries to pitch it and becomes absolutely wild.
It would be interesting to see how many knuckleballers there are throughout MiLB. I hear about all these different knuckleball training camps, so people are still trying to learn it. Is there a general threshold to how high up the Minor League ladder that they top out at?
Wakefield. *Rush of nostalgia*
one of the first moments
I’m a catcher for my best friend who is a knuckleball pitcher and I have a special catcher mitt that I loosened to account for his knuckleball
1:18 WHAT IS THAT MOVEMENT??
A knuckleball. They move all around in an unpredictable pattern if thrown correctly.
The knuckle ball is effective primarily because it is a pitch batters rarely see. I would go further and suggest that hitters don't spend a lot of time training to hit knuckle balls instead, coaches have them focus on dealing with the more common pitches such as sliders, fastballs, cutters, curveballs, and change ups. This is why a batter suddenly finding a ball with no spin moving oddly in the air as it approaches the plate cannot hit it. The effectiveness of the knuckle ball depends on how rare it is used. It's a pitch that relies heavily on the element of surprise. If more pitchers begin using the pitch and it becomes more common, hitters will get better equipped to handle it. Eventually the pitch will become less effective.
It's funny, because so many pundits said it was dead, said it would never come back. They said it was over that an era had ended. Like 10 RUclipsrs make videos about this last year and now they all seemed absolutely silly. Like I said the knuckleball is as effective as it ever was maybe more because hardly anybody throws it. The issue isn't that the knuckleball doesn't work, however that most pictures just don't throw it therefore there's somewhat of a cognitive bias in that thinking that nobody throws it because it doesn't work. Kind of Sengas forkball.
Hi Jesus
It's a fun day when you get to watch a good knuckle ball pitcher. The speed and movement of the ball can take a good hitter's bating average down a notch or two.
Fantastic content. I rarely subscribe. Subscribed.
Thank you!
I was literally just talking to my dad about how the knuckleball is about to go extinct and then this video popped up, which is insane. I can’t believe and I’m super super happy that the knuckleball is not extinct and I hope it never will.
That is awesome! It seems like whenever it is about to go extinct someone brings it back.
I’d argue that expected stats may not be great when looking at a knuckleball pitcher. The slower speed allows the hitter time to realize it’s a knuckle and shorten the swing a bit. Something along those lines might be why the exit bell is low given the BA
I Just learned how to throw one and it came alot easier to me than i thought. There is a technique to it.
So pretty much the only reason people were hitting his Knuckeball is because of the shift, bad defense, and bloop singles.
You need a lot of luck as a knuckler even if in this case that wasn't the cause. It needs to move just right and go to the right location at key moments but really throughout the whole game. And you cant influence it. Thats why wakefield had a career 4.50 average and Dickey was only the best pitcher in the league for 1 year, he just had the most luck any knuckleballer ever had that year
Wilbur Wood was a 20 game winner for the White Sox in the sixties as a knuckler
From 1971-1975, Wood was a starter and pitched on two days rest. In those five years, he averaged 45 starts a season, going 100-89
if theres one thing you can say about baseball, its soooooooo much better with at least one knuckleballer in the mlb
The knuckleball will never die.
It takes a very special catcher to be able to handle a knuckleball pitcher.
.... amazing thing about the knuckle ball is that nobody in the stadium has any idea where the ball will wind up
GBR!
Like some cult religion that barely survives, there has always been at least one but rarely more than five or six devotees throwing the knuckleball in the big leagues . . . Not only can't pitchers control it, hitters can't hit it, catchers can't catch it, coaches can't coach it and most pitchers can't learn it. The perfect pitch. Ron Luciano
You have to be committed to it there is no gong back.
If I could go back in time I'd start throwing the knuckle ball at 5 years old and work on nothing else
There's no reason this shouldn't be taught to kids as the first offspeed pitch, it saves so much arm stress
Oooouuuuu very nice
I just want to see him make the all-star roster...
Could u image if skenes could develop a knuckle ball like this going from his high heat to this 😂
🔥🔥🔥
Fucking love this guy!
No pitch goes extinct. Look up the spit ball. Spit not split. There will always be variations of the knucklleball in pitches decades from now
I hold the ball with my whole hand including the palm and then I just throw to get a knuckleball 😎
even if you get ahold of a good knuckleball its often a pop up or some weak sauce because if its doing knuckleball things its literally just swinging and hoping for the best😂
edit: but if your knuckleball doesnt knuckleball its just BP
It would be amazing to see a guy who can throw a 90 mph fast ball and a knuckleball. Is it possible?
Isn't that Matt Waldron?
Waldron could be the first because true knucklers never will be consistent. You need legit stuff for when its not working. Problem1 is you need a catcher dedicated to a knuckleballer. Calling Wakefield the most reliable is ridiculous, love him but he had a 4.40 career era. Only reliability was his health. And we all seen Dickey have the most luck ever for that one year and be the best pitcher in the mlb. after that he never had the luck to make it move in advantageous ways in key moments again and faded out of the league
Phil Niekro claimed to be able to control it, but while the knuckleball was his main pitch, he had decent enough stuff he reportedly won his 300th game throwing only other pitches. So, it's more accurate to say Waldron has the chance to be Phil's equal. (His brother Joe was good but not nearly as good with it.)
@@dougfowler1368 phil niekro? Are you crazy. He famously relied on it the most. He even said his fastball doesnt exceed the speel limit and that a beach ball would beat it to the plate. Maybe actually watch some games and interviews with Phil
Knuckleball is just too hard to throw. Everybody should try, but only one in 500 might get it
Don’t compare Waldron to the great Wakefield or RA Dickey. His KB is relatively flat and most of the times way way out of strike zone; it fooled hitters early in the season due to its novelty. To fool mlb hitters with 70mph pitches, it better dance like a butterfly up and down left and right. You have to dedicate yourself to a KB to be effective, not just throw it like a part time hobby.
How do you not have more followers
He should throw the pitch like 60% of the time.
His first 7 starts were also bad because the offense never scored for him at all.
Every here and again you get an Eichhorn.
Anyone else here from the Father’s Day series?
Dickey bounced between the majors and minors? Sounds like Drake
Why do you end every sentence like you're asking a question lol
And he’s a bronze in MLB24
Matt Waldron is a mediocre pitcher - knuckleball is dead because even if its thrown right 100%, it mostly moves on a predictable path.
Yeah and he got tanked up last night by the bravos let's go braves
Yes, a pitcher who made his debut in 2023 saved a pitch that a handful of high school and college kids I played with threw. Right.
Waldron is somewhat like old time pitchers, with a big repertoire of off speed. Sorely lacking in baseball.
Still has a little too much spin.
More like how the knuckleball saved his career
Seventh
Bro is not anywhere near one of the best starters in the league
He’s provided 1.4 WAR, so he’s up there.
First
I am him
He didn’t. End of video. Saved you some time.
Sorry, Wakefield was tedious to watch! The value of knuckleballers is that they tend to eat a lot of innings and stay healthy. But, they cannot be depended upon for big moments.
The stat geeks are ruining baseball. If you don't throw 95 mph and have a high enough spin rate, you're ignored. So stupid